A rebuttal from Al Stefanelli to Cal Beverly (and S.Lindsey)

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"The proscribing any citizen as unworthy the public confidence by laying upon him an incapacity of being called to offices of trust and emolument unless he profess or renounce this or that religious opinion is depriving him injuriously of those privileges and advantages to which, in common with his fellow citizens, he has a natural right." - Thomas Jefferson

I live in a small corner of an outlying county in the Atlanta Metro area, and like many small towns in the South it is predominantly Christian and a majority of the residents here are Republicans. This is not necessarily a bad thing, and I will expand on this a little further down the page. I mention this now because while these demographics may reflect the majority, not everyone here is Christian and not everyone here is a Republican.

There are Democrats, Libertarians, Socialists, Independents and several other politically affiliated citizens here. As well, we've got Jews, Hindus, Catholics, Buddhists, Mormons, Wiccans, Pagans and yes, even Atheists. Politically, spiritually and even ethnically, we are a pretty diverse community, and many here are just fine with that. Many are not, however, and when the minorities (from any group) start getting uppity, well, it usually goes downhill from there.

There is a current snit going on here in Fayette County, GA., and it involves the local Freethought group, a certain State Director for American Atheists, Inc., the Chairman of the Fayette County Board of Education, and a man named...
Mr. Cal Beverly (Pictured)...
Mr. Beverly is the publisher and editor of our local newspaper, The Citizen. From my point of view, Mr. Beverly reminds me of Glenn Beck and his newspaper bears an ethically canny resemblance to "Fox News." If you are OK with this, then there is no point in reading any further. If I have to explain why, you wouldn't understand. Suffice to say, I am not a fan of either.

Cal sits at the helm of The Citizen and pretty much prints whatever he wants. As Editor and publisher of a newspaper that is produced in a free society, this is his prerogative. I have no wish to shut down Cal's enterprise, interfere with its operation, nor do I portend to tell him what or what not to print. As much as I loathe the sloppy, lopsided, inaccurate reporting that is void of journalistic integrity and lacks the benefit of very basic fact-checking skills that usually end up on the pages of The Citizen, I loathe censorship even more. Long live the fourth estate.

However, as an author, writer and journalist myself, as well as a former newspaperman, resident of the county and citizen of these United States, I am also entitled to voice my opinion. It would be preferred if I were able to put my thoughts in a letter to the editor, but my many attempts to do so (along with requests for a user account that would allow access to their public forum) have gone ignored for a very, very long time. In fact, it would be a safe bet that within a very short period of time after I post this article on their Facebook page, my posting privileges there will most likely be removed. But before we get into the meaty portion of the issues at hand...

Let’s Talk About Littering First...
This may seem picayune compared to the issues at hand, but enough people have brought this to my attention that I am giving it a couple small paragraphs.
Cal doesn't charge for his paper, which is actually admirable. I will give him that, hands down. I don't support having to pay for news. That's what advertisers are for. However, his method of distribution consists of his paper being tossed in what seems to be every driveway in town, regardless of whether or not it is wanted. I have literally lost count of how many people who have told me how much this pisses them off. You cannot ignore it, because if you leave it there, within a very short period of time your driveway and sometimes the road in front of your house becomes littered with little plastic bags containing rolled-up newspapers.
To the person who does not welcome this, it becomes litter. If you do not take it upon yourself to wander down your driveway and physically remove them your property, you run the risk of getting ticketed by Code Enforcement. Maybe it's me being old-fashioned, but it has been my experience that a newspaper is usually delivered to those who specifically ask for it. Those people are known as subscribers. The rest of the community usually has to resort to picking up their copies up at retail outlets or small kiosks provided by the publisher, usually placed around town at various businesses. That said, let's get...

Back On Point...
The Citizen Newspaper caters to the uber right-wing, ultra conservative demographic of our county. The platform of this group, known as the Religious Right, leans toward transforming government into Theocracy, completely intertwining it with, and have it subject to, fundamental Christian dogma. This is not me being paranoid, or offering my opinion. Nor is it a libelous statement. All one has to do is turn on any right-wing media offering or listen to the Republican Presidential candidates speak, peruse their official websites and read anything labeled "issues" or read the comments on the Internet outlets to their corresponding websites, then compare them to the stories and reader comments at The Citizen to see the truth in this.
This is true for the content of the news stories, a good portion of the reader comments (some that can only be classified as bigoted, racist and discriminatory - you can read them yourselves, I am not making this up), Cal's own editorials, the letters to the editor that are chosen for print, the columnists (both local and syndicated) and most of their advertisers. It's the usual bord au faire; stories, comments and editorials from those who mistakenly believe that the United States was founded as a Christian Nation (it is not, nor has it ever been), or that our laws are based on the Ten Commandments (they are not and have never been), or that the founding fathers were bible-believing, Jesus-worshiping, born again Christians.
You would also expect to find editorials and comments stating or implying that anyone who is not Christian and Republican should not be serving in the local, state or federal government, nor should they hold any posts in Boards of Education. True to the format of Fox News, Cal and his crew are not prone to using anything - no matter how loosely connected - to trigger another one of their Christian Crusades to keep out the "undesirables." Cal has printed lies and falsehoods which do nothing other than inflame people into generating even more hatred and bigotry, then he walks away, claiming "absence of malice." This is a highly unethical and irresponsible way to run a newspaper, a perfect example of the intolerance that I've come to expect...

Strike One...
Cal's latest Christian crusader witch-hunt surrounds the new Fayette County Board of Education Chairman, Leonard Presberg. There are two things you should know about this situation. First, it has nothing to do with Presberg, no matter how much Cal and crew would like you to believe. He has done nothing wrong, illegal, immoral or unethical. He was appointed to a post on the Board of Education to fill a position that had suddenly come open due to a death. Appointing an interim Board member is fairly common in most BoE's. When the position of Chairman came up a few months later, he was just as eligible for that position as anyone else on the board, and he was appointed as such, and done so unanimously. Again, this is not an unusual chain of events, nor is it a rare occurrence.
No big deal, right? Well, according to Cal Beverly, it's a big deal when you are not a Christian Republican Theocrat. It doesn't seem to matter that he was appointed using legal, established and accepted means. It doesn't matter that he is qualified for the job, to wit,

"Leonard Presberg currently serves at CFO at Women’s Medical Center, was the former Headmaster and teacher at Hill Country Montessori, an attorney with Fayetteville-based George N. Sparrow, Jr., Editor-in-Chief of the Richmond Law Review and Manger of Performance Testing with National Software Testing Laboratories in Philadelphia. He has two children in the Fayette County school system, has served as a youth coach on the school council, as well as the PTO and, as a teacher, he has taught all ages of students."
It doesn't matter that he is well-respected and well-liked, to wit,

"...he is one of the smartest men I have ever met. He scored in the 99% on the LSAT, he got a full scholarship to our law school. Along with being brilliant and I mean genius level brilliant, he is kind and tolerant. Open to others opinions, does not judge and since we have graduated has been passionate about educational issues. This is a man that if he chose could be making literally millions of dollars per year in the private sector but instead he chose to focus on his family and his children and education. You may be the luckiest school board in the country."

"He is a loyal and thoughtful friend, father, and citizen... the fact that I am a christian, has never got in the way of our friendship. I pray that my fellow Christians will reserve judgement, and allow this man to work on the task at hand... "

"Mr. Presberg is far from militant, and is not Anti-Christian... He cares deeply about education, is a fantastic father and citizen. We should be honored to have such a fantastic man on the board"

"In my opinion, the FCBOE could not have made a better choice for our children and the future of education in Fayette County....and the county as a whole in general."
Clearly the issue has nothing to do with anything other than Mr. Presberg is a member of a local Freethought Group, and because of that, Cal automatically assumed that he was an atheist. Aside from the fact that Presberg is Jewish, the Freethought group in question has been around for a while now, and has a positive impact on the community and offers a social outlet to well over one hundred of our fellow residents. A group which, by the way, has always been open, public and inviting, but has had to privatize their member list because Cal's irresponsibility has put the safety of the members at risk. More on that, later.

Strike Two...
In an editorial written by Cal Beverly, he states about the Presberg situation (among other tidbits of ignorance), the following (emphasis mine):
"So what we have here is a man who has never held elective office appointed to a school board in a mostly Republican county on the buckle of the Bible Belt. Within two months of that appointment, he is chairman of the board that controls $180 million in Fayette County public tax money to pay 3,000 public employees and educate 21,000 Fayette children. And in this Bible Belt Republican county, our new unelected school board chairman is both a Democrat and a member of a militant atheist organization, a man who could never have hoped to be elected to public office in this county..."

It's not the fact that Cal is concerned about the spending of tax money that is the issue here. We should all be concerned about where out tax dollars go, regardless of political affiliation, and I am even willing to let go the pejorative connotation of being a Democrat. We are in an election year. However, from Cal's word processor to his readers eyes, it is plain to see that the issue is plain, old, garden-variety bigotry against a world view that does not conform with the religious right. This is obvious for two reasons,
One being his references to the "Bible Belt" which obviously implies that someone who is not a Christian should not be running the school board. This, of course, would go against the US Constitution, which states that there shall be no religious test as a qualification to hold a public office. That would be the sixth Amendment of the Constitution for those of you keeping up.

Two, Cal refers to the Freethought group in question as being "militant." As I previously wrote, the Freethought organization that he belongs to is about as far from militant as you can get. Unless you count social activities like meeting for lunch and dinner, getting together to watch movies, hosting book studies, trivia nights, holding benefit yard sales and "adopting" a section of highway where you will find a bunch of them donned in reflective vests picking up trash off the side of the road to be "militant."
In fact, that Freethought group has members who are Christian, Agnostic, Jewish, Hindus, Wicca, etc. As far as I know, they have zero contempt for anyone and do not, whatsoever, under any circumstances, proselytize (which isn't even a word that should be used for a secular organization)
In fact, some of his long-time supporters are coming out against him,

"This article screams hatred and fear...hatred and fear of any ideology other than Christianity. So what if most of the voters in Fayette County are Christian and Republican? I am a native Atlantan, and our history is full of bigotry and hatred, most of which was supported by the voting public...was it right? I'm one of the 133 and have never once been called 'militant' or felt that way. I'm married to a born again Christian, whom I respect and love, regardless of whether we have the same religious ideology.
Your observations about the FFS are absurd and severely misinformed and possibly libelous as well. If you take offense to someone's political agenda, then by all means report on that. How dare you "OUT" someone as an atheist when you have no clue what you're talking about. I bet most of the "elected" officials of this county wouldn't pass muster if their online lives were probed too deeply.

As for how Mr. Presberg will fare as a BOE Chairman, we will see...but he deserves a chance before being tried and convicted in your court of public opinion...he couldn't do any worse than build a school that no one attends :/" (kimberlyinptc)

And,
"Militant atheist organization"? Wow! Burn them at the stake. How dare someone who is not a self-described born-again Christian dare hold office in this county!? Cal, engage your brain. The same document which protects freedom of and from religion ALSO gives freedom to the press. If you were to truly "correct" this article, it would be about three paragraphs long. You might think of that before you set out on your next Christian Crusade! Your party, which will be lead by a Mormon, needs a mirror big enough for some collective self-reflection.

"You have used your barrel of ink to attack, with loose facts and great contempt, local citizens living within their constitutional rights. As I have enjoyed your paper immensely, I cannot, in good conscience, continue to participate on this forum. It is quite saddening that you have sunk to such depths, Cal. Perhaps in time, you might realize the great responsibility laid before the Editor of a globally viewed Newspaper; a responsibility which you, in my opinion, have greatly abused.
"Barring a printed apology to The Fayette Freethought Society, I will no longer participate on your website. No, it won't hurt you Cal. Non-liberals could care less, but I could not look in a mirror while participating in a venue, which has apparently become a vehicle for Christian-based witch hunts." (kevink)

And,
"I imagine that there are some in Fayette who are having a problem with the first black council member. I bet back in the day there were non-militant citizens who spoke against integration at BOE meetings." (Davids mom)

And,
"See What I Mean about lazy journalistic practices! Mainstream drops the bomb! I am not a member of FFTS, or any other society for that matter, except the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Ninjas, but it is evident that the story was very loosely researched at best. Would any of you out there in the corporate have accepted such a report? I for one would not have. As for legality, I don't see how Editor Cal invokes 'absence of malice' on this one. We might all be blogging on another paper come this time next year!" (Ninja Guy)
You can read plenty more like this on The Citizen website.

Strike Three...
What does Cal do in response to being "called out" by his own community members? He responds with a second volley of completely erroneous commentary. Without bothering to check his facts, he attempted to link Presberg to me, a well-known Activist, by completely screwing up his facts in a long winded rebuttal that pegged me as the founder and spokesperson of the local Freethought group, insinuated that I was somehow working in cahoots with Presberg, insinuated that my articles can be found on the Freethought group's website, and then "linked" to one of my activism articles on a completely different website to try to make Presberg out to be something he couldn't be any further from. There are several problems with this,
• I don't represent the local Freethought group. I represent American Atheists, Inc. The local Freethought group has it's own leadership and spokespersons.
• I am not the founder of the Freethought Group. I had not even set foot in Georgia when this group was organized.
• My writing is of my own volition, as my blog is not connected in any way with the local Freethought group, but is a venue that I own the copyright to.
• I don't know Leonard personally and have yet to meet him personally. He has not attended any events and my severe disabilities limited the number of functions I can attend
In fact, there are many who I have never met, as there are many who have never met each other. These are just a few examples of the shoddy shock journalism that is part and parcel to this newspaper and its editor, as is the same with Fox News and the like. As is true to form, at the time of this writing, Cal has not offered an apology to Presberg or the Freethought group, which he clearly owes. Technically, he owes me an apology as well, but I am not going to hold my breath.

Cal Adds Insult To Injury...
To add insult to injury, Cal did the exact opposite of what he should have done if he were an ethical newspaperman. Instead of retracting his statements, admitting he was wrong and offering a written apology to both Presberg and the Freethought group, he chose to dig his heels deeper in the dung heap he has created by printing a letter to the editor from a supporter that is so chock-full of utter ignorance, it made my head spin. You young folks would call it "facepalming."
Click the link and see if you don't find yourself staring blankly into space at the surreal, wondering just how an adult can actually believe this revisionist history stuff. This always amused me, given the Scripture about "exchanging the truth for a lie," which is kinda routine for the history and science denying crowd. Truly, the contents of this letter would make David Barton proud.

At this time, the best Cal was able to muster was yet another rebuttal that attempts to brush the whole thing off as a "robust political discussion." Nice try, but not even close.
So, What's This Got To Do With Me?
Absolutely nothing. My name was brought into this for the sole and feeble purpose of attempting to discredit Presberg because he is not a Christian Republican Theocrat. That's should make anyone shake their head at Cal. Same goes for dragging in the Freethought group. I actually had no idea my name was even made a part of this until I received a phone call urging me to visit The Citizen's website. First I laughed, but when I saw the libelous statements that were being hurled toward a decent man and toward a group that is a positive presence in the community, I quit laughing.

The connection between me and Presberg as members of the same large and diversified social group is about the same as Presberg and me both having library cards. Cal really put his foot in it in his attempt to turn a non-issue into a volcano by using potentially libelous statements, poor reporting skills, little or no research and inflammatory rhetoric. If I were them, I'd be looking for a good lawyer.

OK, Then, Why Me?
The only reason why I was chosen as Cal's weapon against Presberg is because he felt, in his arrogance and hubris, that I was an easy target. I am an outspoken and well-known activist who is frequently in the public eye, embroiled in the controversy of defending atheists, who are the last minority that it is still acceptable to discriminate against. That, and my inability to defend myself on The Citizen's discussion forums because Cal seems to be afraid to grant me access. However, I have a bully pulpit of my own and this is not my first rodeo. I've been at this for a long time and I can smell a rat from a mile away.

Last summer I threatened to sue the City Council and the Mayor for uttering unconstitutional invocations at the start of the city council. You can read about it here, here, here or watch it on the local news here if you are interested. No, the issue has not been dropped, nor have the other legal challenges I have against the State, Governor Deal and the Georgia Supreme Court. My actions against the city did not sit well with the religious right, if you can imagine that. However, last time I checked there was nothing anti-American about being an activist in our society, no matter how unpopular the cause may be. Remember how unpopular abolitionism was or the women's suffrage movement?
In fact, the First Amendment not only guarantees the separation of church and state, it also guarantees my legal right to bitch about anything that I feel requires bitching about. The treatment that unbelievers receive at the hands of the religious right - as with Cal's witch-hunt against Presberg - is an issue that needs constant bitching about. For those of you who do not remember, the First Amendment reads,

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Apparently Cal and crew, along with a few select readers whom I will address soon enough, feel that only their misguided, bigoted and discriminatory grievances should be addressed and the rest of us should simply shut up, go away or both. How utterly Orwellian in a macabre "some are more equal than others" way.
Yes, I work with some local groups on some constitutional issues, but my activities are performed in my capacity as the Georgia State Director of American Atheists, Inc., which is a voluntary position, and my level of activity is predicated on how my disabilities are affecting me one day to the next. I do not speak for the Freethought Group or any of its members. I do not speak for Leonard Presberg. Period. End of story.

A Special Note To S. Lindsay...
Back in September I published an article on the American Atheist Inc. blog. I was not kind at all to the extremist and fundamentalist members of the Abrahamic religions. I rarely am. It is no secret that I frequently target the religious right and the extremists members of all religions to expose their nefarious doctrines that literally call for the execution of infidels. I find no reason to be anywhere near nice toward anyone who follows a belief system that calls for my death based on the fact that I do not believe in their megalomaniac deity. I give no ground to the idiots out there who actually believe there god commands them to murder in his name, for any reason. I am not in the habit of pulling punches when addressing their bigoted, misogynist, discriminatory and hateful beliefs, especially when they try to infuse them into our legislation. I have a deep a respect for our Constitution and the equal rights for everyone, regardless of race, creed, religion, sexual orientation, etc., etc. Nothing new there.
In my article I expounded on why some of these dangerous doctrines should be eradicated. This, of course, has been done in the past. Doctrines have been eradicated by the church when they proved to be counter-productive to the growth of the church. Hence, we don't stone homosexuals or adulterers any longer, and children are not put to death for being disobedient. We also don't kill the infidel. This is a good thing, and shows that the mainstream church is willing to grow with society in certain areas. Of course, the religious right threw a @#&$-fit of monumental proportions and, as happens quite often with a group of people who seem to be lacking in basic reading comprehension skills, the took my actual words,
"But the underbelly of fundamentalist Christianity and radical Islam does not operate in the legal system. They don’t respond to lawsuits, letters, amicus briefs or other grass-roots campaigns and they must, must, must be eradicated. As long as they are allowed to exist, we will continue to be inundated with accounts of buses, buildings, markets and abortion clinics being blown up, rape victims being murdered for adultery, wives being beaten (sometimes to death), airplanes being flown into buildings, people being tortured and sometimes beheaded for blasphemy, people being burned for witchcraft and sorcery and all the other horrific, inhumane and insane practices that are part of fundamental Christianity and Radical Islam. If we don’t take a stand and, as a society, insist that these doctrines and beliefs are treated just the same as they would be if religion were not part of the equation, we will become extinct not due to natural selection, but at the hands of those who believe that the supernatural has made the selection."
And magically reinterpreted them to mean that instead of me calling for the eradication of doctrines that the fundamentalist extremists use to justify all sorts of atrocities, to actually call for the murder of human beings. As you can imagine, this was the topic of much conversation, and when one of Glenn Beck's dingbat reporters posted it on The Blaze, it only served to make the religious right look even worse, and not just for his obvious and blatant interpretation of my words, but the ensuing 566 comments that were pretty much entirely crazy and only proved that there are more dangerous people out there then we thought, because the reinterpreted story went viral and lo and behold, ended up where? You guessed it, on The Citizen forums by a reader who goes by "Observer4u."

However, even the readers of The Citizen saw right through this, which is evidenced by their comments,
"If you look carefully at the quote and the original blog, Stefanelli is calling for the eradication of fundamentalist Christianity and radical Islam, which he sees as responsible for abortion clinic bombings, airplanes being flown into buildings and people being tortured for blasphemy, witchcraft, etc. I don't think he wants Christians to be killed. By the way, the Constitution does indeed give you the freedom to not be religious, if that's what you choose. Religious extremism can be pretty scary. I think I'll just stay away from it."

And
"but religion is pushed upon everyone.what I get from “they must, must, must be eradicated” is the hardcore beliefs, NOT INDIVIDUALS. I also don’t want to be told what I must do, how I must think, which Deity I must believe in. If the fundamentalist get their way, it will no longer be the Land of the Free. Isn’t America suppose to be a melting pot? Different people from different places with different views. How can you have that with “One Nation Under God”

And
"The Evangalicals wants to use the Government to further its particular religious beliefs and this is wrong and unconstitutional.
Mr. Lindsay, responsible journalists as well as many readers understood my words and reported as such, and I even guested on several Christian Talk Radio shows to further assure that I don't go around advocating violence of any kind, let alone murder. The issue was finally laid to rest, and life went on. Until yesterday, when you decided it was time re-stoke the flames of bigotry by bringing it up again, but without the benefit of the truth. You wrote on The Citizen's forum,

Cal do you remember this?
But the underbelly of fundamentalist Christianity and radical Islam does not operate in the legal system. They don’t respond to lawsuits, letters, amicus briefs or other grass-roots campaigns and they must, must, must be eradicated. Al Stefanelli, American Atheists’ Georgia State Director
Hmmm Christians MUST BE ERADICATED.. Nah these guys are just some flower smelling, toe tickling group that just wants everyone to get along...NOT.
Remember Cal this group is responsible for protesting a cross at Ground Zero.

Tell me Al did you ask New Yorkers or even the Families before you tackled that one or did you just push your beliefs on everyone else?
Isn’t that exactly what you claim Christians want to do to everyone, force THEIR beliefs on Society?
The Freethought website on Christians: “most of these people” lack the maturity and intelligence” to act in “a socially acceptable manner.”
You believe of these Christians they are “sociopaths,” “psychopaths” or simply “delusional.” This was from their website. At least as of 9/16/2011.

First of all, heed this warning. If you continue to publish that I call for the eradication of Christians, or any act of violence for that matter, as made evident by your statement "Hmmm Christians MUST BE ERADICATED," I will sue you for libel as well as whatever publication chooses to print it. You can say whatever you want about me. I've been in the public eye for a long time and have developed a thick skin that can repel pretty much any rhetoric that is thrown my way. I've been called every name in the book, and it doesn't phase me. However, this is not the first time you have written somewhere that I have called for the murder of human beings. It is libelous, and puts my personal safety at risk that is not of my own doing. I await your retraction and apology on this website. Comments here are moderated only for spam. I promise I will allow it to go through.

The issue regarding the Cross at Ground Zero is a constitutional one, a matter of law that has nothing to do with "asking anyone." If you are interested in our reasons for filing this suit, click here. As far as pushing my "beliefs" on anyone, you obviously remain totally clueless about what "unbelief" is, particularly atheism. Go here for some education.
As well, I will reiterate something again to you, Mr. Lindsay, and I will type slow to make sure you understand...
I do not speak for the local Freethought group, they do not speak for me. We are two separate entities, and while I hold membership in their group, support their efforts in the community and attend some of their events, they have a spokesperson and it is not me. As well, my views, opinions and points of view are not part of their mission statement. Did I mention that I do not speak for them? Did I mention that my views and opinions are my own, and not a part of their mission statement? Do you understand this, or do I need to hire a plane with a sky writer? You are trying to make a connection where none exists and the only thing you are accomplishing is making a fool of yourself.
They do not link to this blog, and I do not link to them. In fact, the only thing you will find here is the well-known fact that I am a member of the group along with one hundred and thirty-some-odd other people. These are good people with the best interests of their community at heart and do a lot of volunteer work in town. You are, in effect, kicking a puppy. Nice...

Bad Company Corrupts Good Morals...
I have absolutely nothing against the majority of Christians. I am paying lip service to nobody, nor am I being disingenuous when I say that I count amongst my closest friends people of faith and a majority of my family identify as Christians. They are great people, I enjoy their company very much and I count myself fortunate to have them in my life.
There are, however, a lot of bad apples in the bunch. If you are a Christian here in Fayette County, ask yourselves how well you know the people who you call "brothers" and "sisters" in Christ. When you have your "quiet time," reflect on your relationships and ask yourself how comfortable you would be having prayer, worship and fellowship with the "devout believers" among the community who have sent me these emails, of which contain original grammar and spelling,
• You are an arrogant piece of &%$*. I would love to rip you to shreds. Have a nice day, &@%$bag
• Who gives a @&%$ what you want. There are more of us than you. Watch your back because you will never know when I will be there. I might be staring in your kitchen windows now.
• America is one nation under god and if you don’t like it then leave, you traitorus &*%$. I hope your *&%$ rots off and you end up dead in a ditch somewhere.
• This country was founded on Christian values and morals and the majority of us will not let you trash the principals this country was founded on. Nobody cares what you think so just shut up before someone shuts you up.
• I would love to take my gun and shoot it off by your left ear then one by your right ear and then stick it to your forehead and ill get a kick of out of who you will be praying to!! And when you die you have fun in hell buddy, you think satan is gonna treat you with dignity and respect?
• God is real. You’re a retarded faggot. I hope you burn in hell
• You think you so smart but you wont be laughing when God smote you and your burning in hell!!! You are blasphmering and your punishment will be death as its comanded in the bible! That is a promise! Watch your back!
• I promise you this. You mock god you die. You won’t see it coming, but I will watch with great joy as your lifeless body drops on the spot where my bu1llet pierces your evil flesh
• You’re dead meat
• Do you not realize that God will not stand by and allow you to live? Do not be surprised when you and your entire family are put to death just like Achans family and you will be the one responsible. You got fire insurance?
• You need to be tortured and killed. You are Satan’s spawn and a worshiper of the evil one and you will pay for your blasphemy with your life, as is commanded by our Lord. I would consider it an honor to put a bullet right between your eyes.
• &*%$ you! You are going strate to hell and its not a fun place mother&*%$#@. Maybe I will get to be the one to send you thare!! Beware!
• We are watching you. Closely. Very closely. We are armed and only await the word from our King to assassanate you. You will get no warning. Boom! You’re dead. Just like that
• I know where you live and shop, I know what kind of car you drive, I know what your family looks like, I know when you are home, I know when you are out, I know when you are alone. Keep mocking God and find out what else I know. I’ll give you a hint. They will never find your sorry ass body.

Some Final Thoughts,
Cal Beverly, you should really do the right thing and retract your inflammatory rhetoric, correct the errors you made and offer a written apology to Leonard Presberg and the Freethought group. You know you are wrong, so how about a little humility on your part and admit that what you did was slimy, underhanded, contemptible and just plain wrong. I do not expect an apology from you, but what you did to Leonard was beyond being "subject to the intense scrutiny and criticism of those he is supposed to be representing." As well, the way you portrayed the Freethought society as being guilty of "in-your-face, proselytizing atheism, which seeks to banish all trace of the great monotheistic religions from every square inch of the public square," as well as them holding "in pure contempt what most of us in Fayette County consider to be holy. They reserve their highest contempt for Christians who dare to proclaim their faith" is highly inaccurate.

With regard to my plans to fight the efforts of the FCA and the CEF, I will fight the efforts of any group, organization or church in their efforts to use the public schools as their evangelical platforms. Doing the work of the church on school grounds is in violation of the First Amendment, and it also amounts to preaching to a captive audience. My goal is, as it has been, the total and complete separation of government and religion, and that includes our public schools, our legislative and municipal buildings, our courthouses and everything else up to and including the Oval Office.

The local papers can waste their time trying to uncover "dirt" on me, but you won't find it. I am the quintessential public figure, and everything you need to know about me is a matter of public record somewhere. Of course, there will always be armchair private eyes, whom make me laugh when they think they've uncovered something about me, only to have me direct them to a website, publication, biography, lecture, interview or one of my own articles that have already addressed it. My advice is to take a cue from the National publications. If you want to hear my thoughts on any given subject, usually all it takes is a phone call requesting an interview.

Those of us who are Atheist Activists are not going to go silently into that good night and we will not be intimidated. We will continue to love our Country and our Constitution. We will continue to advocate for the separation of church and state, for the opportunity and ability to hold public office without the requirement of a religious test - either real of implied. We will continue to mount litigation upon those who discriminate against us, as have our predecessors in the Civil Rights movement (those of African descent and women), and as do our contemporaries in the LGBT movement. We will not give up until everyone receives equal rights, protections and freedoms and there is no longer any discrimination on the basis of age, gender, disability, orientation, creed, belief (or no belief), or anything else that still causes the ugly specter of bigotry to rear it's ugly head.
We are your sons, daughters, mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, aunts and uncles. We are your doctors, lawyers, managers, employees, friends and neighbors. We are on your school boards, fire departments, police departments and emergency medical crews. Most importantly, we are honest, ethical and moral citizens.
You couldn't hope for a better neighbor than a Freethinker.

Veritas
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Correction

Leonard Presberg was not UNANIMOUSLY voted chairman of the board as you state.
Split vote and let's be clear on his resume
As posted earlier

Ok let's see what you call expertise . He never held a public teaching position. He was a private school teacher and head master at Hill Country Montessori which he himself started. He does not have GAPSC license to teach .He has only a certificate /diploma of Montessori training of  "7 to 9 months devoting 4-5 hrs of study each week and students may accelerate their schedule if desired" (so essentially 5-7 weeks) (Primary grades are 3-6 yrs ).He has.3 years classroom experience with said primary age students while also being the head master, all at a now defunct Montessori school. It had up to 22 students total and at times as few as 5 and  was only open 3 yrs with 2 -4teachers. His only financial experience is  working at his wife's medical practice as "CFO" ...  So he has limited to no knowledge on state, Fed and local funding and nuances in dealing with educational funding allocation and limitations in public education... As an attorney "     practices primarily in the areas of residential and commercial real estate, business and corporate, estate planning, and civil litigation" NOT SCHOOL law which is a specialized area of law....School  leadership... Two to four teachers..... Three yrs... 
It's called embellishment through insinuation.....
Chattahoochee hill country Montessori 
2006-2007 first school yr

2009 closed

Richardc
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Are Ed Helms and The Citizen wrong?

http://www.thecitizennews.com/articles/11-30-2011/fayette-school-board-a...

Since I was basing my information off of The Citizen and now your saying that is incorrect, I was hoping you could clarify your source for stating the Split Vote. Oddly enough Ed Helms of The Citizen clearly states On November 30th 2011 that:
"Presberg was appointed by unanimous vote of the school board on Nov. 14 to fill the unexpired Post 5 term of the late Sam Tolbert that will run through 2014. Presberg’s first meeting as a board member will come in December."

I am confused here, so either you are confirming that The Citizen simply does shoddy reporting and fact checking and got the story all kinds of wrong back in Novemeber or that you sir are misinformed. I look forward to your response.

Veritas
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"When the position of

"When the position of Chairman came up a few months later, he was just as eligible for that position as anyone else on the board, and he was appointed as such, and done so unanimously"
This is your quote insinuating that Presburg was unanimously voted Board chair split vote Smith, Smola and Presberg voting for himself .... Todd and Key against now the original vote to appoint Presberg to the seat for district 5 was unanimous please clarify when you post
Shoddy posting on your part.
Please verify where you saw Unanimous vote for board chair.
My sources FCBOE podcast... Meeting minutes and The Citizen
http://www.thecitizen.com/articles/01-10-2012/power-shift-smith-smola-vo...

Richardc
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I concur

I have to admit with the emotion of the overall conversation I failed to recognize the board chair distinction vs. the board in general. I admit my mistake and apologize for this mistake. I don't think that was so hard. Admitting I was wrong, instead of backtracking like the Editor after having multiple discrepancies pointed out in his article. Now if a lowly citizen such as myself can apologize for an obvious error in my reading, maybe Cal can take note. Emotion can certainly get the best of us and in my heated excitement to defend arbitrary details of Al's letter (and subsequent mistakes) I still feel the overall message is being ignored and that message should be whether or not it is okay to attempt to incite anger and resentment toward Leonard Presberg simply because of a club he joins? If it is in fact newsworthy then I hope you admit Cal could have at least interviewed a few folks? Attended a meeting? I know little about journalism but I do think that you typically attempt to gather the facts before you go to print. I will attempt to step back in my rhetoric (name calling of the paper and of Cal) as I can only hope that civilized conversations can continue. My apologies once again.

Veritas
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No harm no foul

Due diligence by all parties would , Cal included , prevent things getting out of hand

Veritas
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.

Delete

Richardc
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Pesky multiple posts. I feel your pain.

I agree once again. This is a very emotional issue for people of faith as well as those lacking and I just hope that it remains a rational discussion. However it is quickly turning into something else. I can only hope that Leonard's ability to do his job is based on his BOE actions and not what he does or doesn't do on his Sunday mornings.

Veritas
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Absolutely

Thats Especially when the topic is close to the heart why you have to step back take emotions off the table and discuss things rationally when one lets emotions take over what was once rational becomes irrational and beyond all logic.

Richardc
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I do apologize for the

I do apologize for the duplication. I cannot delete the post but did delete my duplicate comment.

Richardc
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I do apologize for the

I do apologize for the duplication.

S. Lindsey
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Julie... Al and I have already had this argument

Al..you said Fundamental Christians and Islamic Radicals must, must, must be eradicated... Now I know you went into damage control mode and said you really meant their views not the actual persons but that was not what you said. You said "THEY" must not be allowed to exist.

Here are your own words from your website...

"But the underbelly of fundamentalist Christianity and radical Islam does not operate in the legal system. They don’t respond to lawsuits, letters, amicus briefs or other grass-roots campaigns and they must, must, must be eradicated. As long as they are allowed to exist, we will continue to be inundated with accounts of buses, buildings, markets and abortion clinics being blown up, rape victims being murdered for adultery, wives being beaten (sometimes to death), airplanes being flown into buildings, people being tortured and sometimes beheaded for blasphemy, people being burned for witchcraft and sorcery and all the other horrific, inhumane and insane practices that are part of fundamental Christianity and Radical Islam.

These were your words not mine and not paraphrased.
http://atheists.org/blog/2011/09/14/taking-the-gloves-off

You clearly were advocating violence against those you disagree with. Cased closed.

Now on your blog you tried to say you meant the practice of Fundamentalism not the Christians themselves, however that was not expressed nor said in your original rant.

The key word is "They". You see if you meant the belief or practice you would have said "The" with some qualifier such as "The Practice" or "The Belief" must be eradicated. But that was not what you said now was it?

However you did say "They" must not be allowed to exist.

Mainstream you may cover for Al all you want.. the facts are plain. He is a militant atheist who will use any and all methods to force his views on others. The very same thing he claims Christians wish to do to you guys.

Now Julie and Al what Cal has produced has nothing to do with me so I find it amusing that you include me in the rebuttal. I made completely factual statements.. Find one thing that I was incorrect on... Go ahead try.

In my opinion Al went on his usual anti-Christian rant, you know those people he feels wear intellectual diapers because God forbid they still believe in fairy tales and gasp not Science and as usual his Alligator mouth overloaded his hummingbird butt. Now just like back in September he is in damage control mode.

Both of you belong to the same group and like it has been said we are who we associate with.

It is fair for Cal to link you two since on Al's own website he said he is a member. IF a Teaparty had oh I don't know a member say David Duke would it be fair criticism to call that Teaparty racist... I think so.

Final thoughts.
Al you have stated you will do everything you can do to stop Religion in any form being brought into the School system. Actually I have no issue with that...BUT... like I told Julie if YOU or any of your brethren attempt to bring into the School system any Anti-Religion platform, textbooks or literature I will simply do no more than you.

I will be watching Al. You can bet on it.

PTC Observer
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Main Stream - Now

Now I understand a lot more about you, thanks for posting this.

"However, as an author, writer and journalist myself, as well as a former newspaperman, resident of the county and citizen of these United States, I am also entitled to voice my opinion."

Here's some background on journalists and newspapermen:

http://conservapedia.com/Liberal_bias

http://www.mrc.org/biasbasics/biasbasics3.asp

Falcon66
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WTH?

Imagine if you took all that balled up energy and actually fought for something that needs fighting for instead of my childs small Fellowship of Christian Atheletes group. Preaching to a captive audience - are you kidding me! You are one serious whack job buddy! One Nation Under GOD buddy, just check your wallet! You love our Country and our Costitution and the FCA is one of you main goals for 2012? I'm sure MLK would love you fighting this fight against these evil Jesus loving middle schoolers! Go on silently into the night and we will keep thanking GOD for blessing the good ole USA!

Ninja Guy
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Falcon66 Dancing With The Devil!

I guess, since you are using un-Christian three-letter acronyms! WTH! Such language! Also, I checked out that militant FCA group's website. Seems they proudly proclaim to 'challenge' athletes and coaches to impact the world for Jesus Christ!

From the FCA Website
==========================================================================
The Fellowship of Christian Athletes is touching millions of lives... one heart at a time. Since 1954, the Fellowship of Christian Athletes has been challenging coaches and athletes on the professional, college, high school, junior high and youth levels to use the powerful medium of athletics to impact the world for Jesus Christ. FCA is the largest Christian sports organization in America. FCA focuses on serving local communities by equipping, empowering and encouraging people to make a difference for Christ.
=========================================================================
Now, let's do a little test to see how you would like a different group in your kid's school doing their thing. Just replace Christ with another spiritual leader, say Satan as the polar opposite.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
WARNING: THE FOLLOWING IS A PARODY AND MIGHT NOT BE SUITABLE FOR SOME BLOGGERS!

The Fellowship of Satanist Athletes is touching millions of lives... one heart at a time. Since 0001, the Fellowship of Satanist Athletes has been challenging coaches and athletes on the professional, college, high school, junior high and youth levels to use the powerful medium of athletics to impact the world for Satan. FSA is the largest Satanist sports organization in America. FSA focuses on serving local communities by equipping, empowering and encouraging people to make a difference for Satan.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You REALLY want to open up public schools to religious groups? Seems okay when you are in the majority, but watch out when EVERYBODY wants their piece of the action.

BTW, who you taking in the Giants v. 49ers game? I say Giants take em and beat the Pats in the Super Bowl too!

Falcon66
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WTH!

The atheletes and coaches they are challenging are their own members not the so called "Captive Audience" that apparently can't get out of these mandatory meetings!! If the Satanist Athletes want some space for their meetings by all means let em sign up - I'd like to see that crowd!

Ninja Guy
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Falcon66 Welcomes Cults to School!

Well, if not the Satanists, how about some cult that uses pretty young girls to recruit new members to impact the world for their deity in human form--the Reverend Moon comes to mind! They can sell subscriptions to the Washington Times while they are doing that impacting!

PTC Observer
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Ninja - How about freedom?

Well, if not religion in public schools, how about no public schools?

Then we could be free to educate our children anyway we wanted to, you know like in 1790.

What about it Ninja? WE don't need any stink'in public schools, no BOE, no Department of Education, no government control of our lives. Come on, you don't need other people's money to educate your Ninjetes. After all why did you work so hard for that CPA certificate hanging on your wall?

Pull up them britches Ninja, try and stand on your own feet. You can do it.

Ninja Guy
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PTCO Goes Full Libertarian Again!

Back to making it legal for mom's to starve their kids again I see PTCO! You really should get those leaky exhaust pipes in your Malibu fixed! Well, you can educate your kids anyway you want to these days! Home school, un-school, public school, private school, religious school, whatever. Yeah, I know there is that property tax thing, but you can get out of that by living in an RV! I wish I were a CPA, then I could outsmart the IRS by myself and not have to pay my accountant over-sized fees every year!

PTC Observer
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Ninja - ?

But then I would also have to pay to educate your kids too, why in the world would I want to do that?

So, you're a bookkeeper? You really should have gotten a better education Ninja, then you wouldn't need the government to steal other people's money to help you make it in the world.

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Good thing we are in 2012 Cal

Back in the day we would have had several lynching’s in the square by now. Thanks to technology several lives were saved

Cal's original article is a symbol of how it use to go down. Find out the truth after udone strunnggum up. (Lynching words back in the day)

Dangerous to our way of life in America. Pure bigotry

Mr. Presburg didn't deserve this. Just not right Cal

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Ninja, much like the others

No great new thought here. More of the same. Sounds like discrimination and hate. Only with Atlanta sports additions to boot. A public school should allow whatever group petitions them to form. Why should a school be a party to discrimination? If the school has any extra curricular groups, whether it be FCA, Free Thinkers, the Stand Up Philosopher's club, etc, then it has to admit any group and be religion neutral, not religion barring. And if a school allows open air humping as many of our high schools do for homecoming, then they are on very shaky ground disallowing any group or claiming any real standards.

Ninja Guy
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Wedgie and the Young Satanist Club

That is what I'm saying. Once you open the door to the 'good' guys, then you have opened it to the bad as well. Everybody, well most everybody, is happy when the clubs they like come in to push their agendas, but when the 'bad' club starts doing the same it all goes to pot. I would rather keep all outside clubs exactly that--outside! Let the schools stick to education.

Wow, really? I guess I should check out some of these homecoming dances!

I'm putting the Ravens Pats even-Steven right now. Gotta make a decision before Sunday on which way the game will go. No fence-sitting for me!

The Wedge
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Hey Nunja

I like that. That is your new sobriquet.

We all have to get comfortable, especially the supposedly tolerant left that is decidely not, to have groups form and exist that are reprehensible to us or our sensiblities. Let's have the Satanists and Atheists meet, that way we know where they stand. Going NFC this year. It is be 49'ers-Pats, and I will be rooting for the 49'ers.

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Just education, Nunja?

Then let's do away with the dances, the student council, the chorus, the glee club, etc. You will not get very far with that one, high speed

Ninja Guy
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Wedgie, You Are Correct!

You bested the Ninja on this one--no way do the band, football, chorus, soccer, and all that go away, ever! So, we are back to letting the Young Nudist Satanist Club set up shop in the cafeteria I guess! Ain't America great!

Ninja Guy
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Wedgie Goes Prospecting!

with the 49'ers. No, the Giants front four will put too much pressure on Alex, and Eli will be at the top of his game. I'm starting to lean back toward the Pats vs. Ravens. Brady looks to be on a mission.

Veritas
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Inexperience Appointment to chair IS completely unheard of

Please inform of all the times you can name ... A New Board inexperienced appointee in any organization ... That after one meeting is appointed chair( a position he is unqualified to hold) .... Since this is such a common occurrence ..... You can't .... Once again stefanelli spouts off with no specifics , data or facts to back his claims

Ninja Guy
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Veritas, I can name one!

John Roberts, current Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court! Went straight to the highest court in the land as the Chief Justice! How you like them taters!

BTW, what's your take on the Ravens v. Pats game? I'm starting to feel a little suspect about the Pats!

Veritas
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I would expect a better attempt from a NINja

I like my taters Fried wit cheese...
I'll take the PAT's all the way baby

As far as your attempt try again quite an experienced fellow with a solid Law back ground
 "educated in a private school before attending Harvard College and Harvard Law School, where he was managing editor of the Harvard Law Review. After being admitted to the bar, he served as a law clerk for William Rehnquist before taking a position in the Attorney General's office during the Reagan Administration. He went on to serve the Reagan Administration and the George H. W. Bush administration in the Department of Justice and the Office of the White House Counsel, before spending fourteen years in private law practice. During this time, he argued thirty-nine cases before the Supreme Court.
In 2003, he was appointed as a judge of the D.C. Circuit by President George W. Bush, where he served until his nomination to be an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court. When Chief Justice Rehnquist died before Roberts's confirmation hearings, Bush renominated Roberts to fill the newly vacant center seat."

Not a fan of Wikipedia since no real research university will accept it as a viable source.... But bloggers seem to love it so, here you go.

Ninja Guy
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Veritas, Impressive Resume Indeed

but what experience did he have on the US Supreme Court before becoming Chief Justice? ZERO, just like Chairman Lars! Another one--Gerald Ford became president without ever being elected! He served only a very short time as VP before becoming president of the whole US! Did I mention that he was not elected?!

In the FC, BOE members don't have to have any particular background or education, so Chairman Lars is qualified to be on the board in that respect. He became Chairman by vote of two other experienced board members. Whether you agree with their past decisions or not, they are experienced, which you seem to put a premium on!

You said give one example, and I did, and added another as a bonus!

Fried them taters, wit sharp cheddar on top!

Veritas
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Once again a weak attempt from ninja

Where is the educational experience of Presberg.... Chief justice needs to know the law and it's interpretations
Which Roberts unequivocally possess and survive a senate vetting process
Ninja bushido seems to kick your arse and take your powdered taters and try again

Ninja Guy
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Veritas Joins PTCO In

La-la land! The sitting board interviewed a bunch of people and ALL of them thought Lars was the best one! Also, who else on the FBOE has educator credentials? I don't know exactly, but I think Dr. Todd is the only true educator in the bunch! Any, Chairman Woolly is not actually going to be teaching classes--you do know that, right?! Being an FBOE member does not require years of high education! Just get elected and do the best you can--like most all county government board positions!

When's the last time you ate boiled peanuts anyway!?

Veritas
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Ninjas need Hooked on phonics

"When the position of Chairman came up a few months later, he was just as eligible for that position as anyone else on the board, and he was appointed as such, and done so unanimously. Again, this is not an unusual chain of events, nor is it a rare occurrence." quote steffi..... No problem with Presberg's appointment to Boe ... Big issue with becoming chair without having experience..... Your weak attempts / examples ..... Not even close .... One more try.... Enjoy your pablum while you you watch your tapes

Ps
When done with phonics read
Fords library for qualifications
http://www.ford.utexas.edu/grf/fordbiop.asp

PTC Observer
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Ninja - La-la Land?

What the heck are you talking about Ninja?

For a guy that isn't a citizen of the USA, you sure have a lot of opinions that don't concern you.

La-la land Ninja, you need to go take your meds forget the peanuts and taters.

Ninja Guy
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Yeah, La-La Land

You should sell the Malibu, buy a guru robe, and set up shop on a mountain top in Tibet! Your usual response to anything on the blog is, in your best Tibetan guru voice, 'Well, as you know, we don't live in a Republic.' By your own admission, there are none in the world and there is virtually no chance of one ever existing! Mother ship landing in one hour at K-mart parking lot! Veritas is not that intelligent but at least has some sense of humor! Even Slindesy is somewhat amusing with his paranoid ravings about atheists eating our brains, but your ongoing 'republic' theme is wearing thin! As you have noticed, the only newcomer of any consequence on blog recently has been Bigfoot, and he has gone quiet now! I attribute the low new blogger rate to your stale 'republic' theme! Did I not break out some new material and prove that government employees do not pay taxes! Did I not expose the Dean of the Austrian School--Murray Rothbard--as a supporter of the right of mothers to let their children starve to death! Did I not prove that retailers are not able to pass on 100% of cost/tax increases unless consumers FULLY accept the price increase! Did I not show that Editor Cal is very likely not guilty of libel! Did I not predict that the Giants would beat the Packers! C'mon man! Time to step up the game! Editor Cal needs us to provide free AND interesting content--Munford and Nelms are not pulling their weight! See you at the next Free Thought meetup!

Veritas
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Poor simple minded Ninja

Can't read , can't comprehend ( did you get someone to help open you phonics set .. I know its tough when the come with written instructions) You couldn't find your comparable instances of similar assertions to chair person , you can't read well enough to find the proper quotes or the original task ...so now you question my intelligence .... Bless your heart.
Heres your oven mitts and football helmet .. Go play outside.
Pats and Niners in the big game!

Ninja Guy
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Veritas, Did I Not Give You

credit for having a sense of humor!

49ers can't stop the Giants defensive front!

Ninja Guy
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Veritas, I Finished the Phonics

course. Wow, what great material! It has even given me the ability to spot errors in the writing of others, as below!
=====================================================================
Can't read , can't comprehend ( did you get someone to help open you phonics set .. I know its tough when the come with written instructions) You couldn't find your comparable instances of similar assertions to chair person , you can't read well enough to find the proper quotes or the original task ...so now you question my intelligence .... Bless your heart.
Heres your oven mitts and football helmet .. Go play outside.
====================================================================

Here are the corrections thanks to phonics course!

1. you phonics set - your phonics set

2. its tough - it's tough

3. chair person - chairperson

4. Heres your oven mitts - Here's your oven mitts

Thanks again for all your help!

NUK_1
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LOL...Veritas stay away from the BOE

I don't think you're in much of a position to comment whatsoever on anything related to the BOE. If we all had done learned from yew we woulds be up dat creek witout dat's paddle.

Giants whup the 49ers
Pats steamroll the Ravens and QB Joe Sucko.

Veritas
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NUk

Nuk you commented HAHAHAHAHAHA WEE WEEE WHEEW ... Now thats rich go get your crayons and see if you can stay in the lines this time.

...while patting you on the head....
Everyone knows your special

Why my reply to Ninja was moderated HMMMMM
been getting moderated alot

Ninja Guy
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Veritas and Moderation!

I think we are ALL being moderated by the moderator these days! I have been on the short-leash for several months now! I did regain full blogging rights for a short time, but with the recent FCBOE flare-up, I am back on the trust-but-verify list! So, that is why it took so long for the corrections to your phonics piece to show up! Believe me, I had it done and posted on my side in under five minutes! Editor Cal just had to make sure it was okay.

BTW, thanks EC! You are doing a great job during this latest dust-up--self-induced as it may be--letting people have their say! I sincerely mean that! You should go to the next Rotary meeting! The Woolly One and Dr. Lobster are supposed to be there from what I hear! Give us a full report!

Veritas
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It took an Hr and 11 min

For Ninja to read , proof and find typos in my 5 or so line retort . HAAAAHAAAAAA wheee wheee whew.
I may have wet myself a little . Ninjas fun to have a discussion with .... Nuk... not worth the effort.

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Nuk and Niners

Crystal Ball says:
After what I saw at the end of last weeks niners/saints game I would NOT bet against the niners. Niners win big.
Brady will get hurt in this game and Ravens win a close one, just like the last time these teams met in the playoffs.
But then again I picked the Falcons...DOH! -GP

Ninja Guy
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GPAT, I Didn't Know You Was

a football fan! You have taken a step forward on the evolutionary chain in my eyes, approaching human status!

Giants down the 9ers
Pats down the Ravens

Giants beat the Pats again in the SB!

Veritas
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Moderated ... Not sure why but again for Ninja

Moderated why?!?! But again touché Ninja maybe I should invest in dragon dictation / speak... typos abound.... Fat fingers on a smart phone.
I don't fell the the need to switch keyboards to apostrophe or punctuate to your standards..but my accent throws it off... . This is a blog ... If need be be lease inform me and I'll make format to MLA ... Outdated or APA sixth edition form our doctoral thesis. Now we can go back and forth with your grammatical errors...This is a blog ... Comical how when bloggers lose their way they are quick to point out spelling/grammar/ punctuation but still no substance to their retort hmmmmmm

You tater--- potato
You---Any, Chairman woolly is not.,,,-- anyhow,anyway?
I can play this infantile game
Back and forth forever ...

This is fun!!

Pats and Niners bowl bound!!

Ninja Guy
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Veritas, You Are Correct!

It is pointless to pointedly point out typos and such in other people's posts! Bronze-plated throwing star to Veritas! I will not venture down that road again! I just thought it was humorous to point out yours because you were on the topic of intelligence! I concede the point that you most likely finished high school and know basic grammar and spelling! Weight Watchers might help with the finger size!

Veritas
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Ninja lost his/her sense of humor AWWWWW

wish my retort hadn't been "MODERATED"
come back and play

PTC Observer
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Ninja - Did I

touch a nerve?

Let's see, Ninja isn't a citizen, is a bookkeeper and states the following:

"As I have written in this forum before. I am not a patriot, so don't expect me to become one now. The US is a fine place to live, but I have lived other places just as nice, perhaps better in some ways, worse in others, and I may live somewhere else again, but for now the US is home..."

Well Ninja perhaps those "better" places beckons you, perhaps your clients would love to know your not a patriot. Perhaps those that post on this blog are tired of your trite, nonsensical, and elitist ideas.

But then I am sure you believe that you have a superior position on just about everything....you know like those other socialists that tried so many years ago to take over the world and extinguish other races.

All good socialists believe that they are superior in intellect and have a natural right to control other people, as you have so elegantly revealed in your posts. You attempt to bully people off this board, you believe you can silence others. Well, you can't Ninja, it won't work because most see through you.

Those "tired" ideas you speak of will prevail as long a good people seek and defend individual freedom, including yours.

Your little black suit can protect you Ninja, your ideas reveal your nature. Black seems to be a favorite color for socialists.

Now pull up your britches and be a good boy.

Ninja Guy
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PTCO, You Are Right!

I am NOT a patriot! Thank's for re-posting that entry!

I don't know what a bookkeeper is exactly, but I guess it's something like a CPA but only without the certification part. I am not one of those--never could get even my trial balance sheet to balance in Acct 101, so I moved on to more theoretical areas of money-related matters!

Seems the only nerve that has been touched here is yours! Either that or someone keyed the Mailbu in K-mart parking lot!

You've gone all ballistic again! Just when I thought you were making progress in therapy--what a setback!

Borrowing from Bill, 'how do you love me, let me count the ways:' 1) you want me to leave the country, 2) I am genocidal, 3) I have a natural right to control people (just my hoard of kids!), 4) I have superior intellect (this one is actually true!), 5) I post elegantly (this one is true too), 6) I bully people (perhaps, but only those that deserve it, and in a humorous way!), 7) I believe I can silence others (not true! I want people to post more and better stuff!), 8) most can see through me (yes, my Ninja gear renders me practically invisible!), 9) good people defend my freedom (by blogging incessantly about socialism and republics I guess?) 10) my black suit CAN protect me. (Yes, that is why I wear it. Did you go to school with Veritas?), and finally 11) my britches are saggy! (no, the pants-on-the-ground style does not appeal to me, but I do dig me some Flo-Rida--that guy is a genius, even better than Cee Lo Green if you ask me!).

Look, today is the BEST day of NFL football in the whole year! Drive the Malibu down to Taco Mac, watch the games, have some chips and pineapple juice, and all will be good until Monday AM!

I'll be up at Best Buy in the comfy chair in front, at least until they chase me out! Then, I guess I will go over to Smokey Bones and find a way to make that bowl of stew last 4 hours! Not having a TV does make life interesting sometimes!

PTC Observer
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Ninja - Lives

off the state as a bookkeeper, most likely an IRS agent.

1) Don't want you to leave the country, however would like to see one of those socialist paradises you praise entice you to leave, along with your family. Then you can send us messages on how things are going from there to just keep us posted.

2) I don't know if you are genocidal but your philosophy certainly has a history of running off and killing people. You know that marginalized theory that "government is just about right" as long as it's growing.

3) I don't think I said anything about your right to control people, on the contrary. Yes, I think you should control your kids but it's likely that they will also simply turn out like you and work for the state. Ergo, point #1.

4) Yes, you are legend in your own mind Ninja, you clearly show this in all your posts.

5) We agree on the elegant prose, however this is what makes people like you so dangerous. Read "The Intellectual and Society" for more background on how I view people like you.

6) PTCO is correct then, you know you bully people, but of course this is not surprising, it's the best method of silencing people. See below.

7. Now Ninja, you know that if you could you would silence all. After all you're the Ninja.

8. It's not your suit Ninja.

9. No, people defend your freedom by not letting your philosophy become the dominate philosophy in our society. They do this by having a clear understanding of history and what principles this country was founded upon. Being a non-citizen I know this is hard for you to grasp.

10. So, you are delusional.

11. Finally, well then pull them up Ninja, real tight, cause you have nothing to pinch.

Best Buy, Smokey Bones, Taco Mac, sounds to me like you like getting something for nothing. Letting others pay for your life's pleasures. All falls in to place doesn't it? Make sure you take the kids so you can show them how to live.

AtHomeGym
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Ninja & Chief Justice Roberts

Don't believe he went there without getting past the US Senate! Confirmed 29 Sep 2005 by a 78 to 22 vote. All 22 'Nays' were Dems.

Ninja Guy
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At Home Gym

Well, AHG, old Lars and his woolly mammoth free-thinker beard didn't just show up at the FBOE meeting and take charge by himself did he? Like the Senate with Roberts, the sitting members of the FCBOE confirmed him as a member! Then, they elected him to be chairman!

Roberts wasn't even elected chairman by his Supreme Court peers, he was appointed by GW Bush!

Veritas
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The original isssue

The original issue is the fact ol' stefanelli's insinuation that such practice is common ... When in fact is very rare if at all

Ninja Guy
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Veritas Loses His Marbles

parsing words! What Steffie said was,

'Appointing an interim Board member is fairly common in most BoE's.'

I don't know how common it is, but 'fairly common' would seem to be a 'fairly' accurate description!

You said give an example, and I did--to the HIGHEST COURT IN THE LAND, and to the position of US PRESIDENT.

I'll leave it to you to rummage through all the minutes and bylaws of all the BOEs of all the counties in all the states in all of the US to see how common it is at the BOE level!

Gotta go eat some taters now!

Veritas
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Ninja can't read!!!! Hooked on phonics for you!

"When the position of Chairman came up a few months later, he was just as eligible for that position as anyone else on the board, and he was appointed as such, and done so unanimously. Again, this is not an unusual chain of events, nor is it a rare occurrence." quote steffi..... No problem with Presberg's appointment to Boe ... Big issue with becoming chair without having experience..... Your weak attempts / examples ..... Not even close .... One more try.... Enjoy your pablum while you you watch your tapes

Ps
When done with phonics read
Fords library for qualifications
http://www.ford.utexas.edu/grf/fordbiop.asp

AtHomeGym
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Ninja & the FCBOE

Yes, Presberg was appointed by ALL sitting mbrs; he was selected as Chairman by 2 of 5 mbrs voting for, 2 against and voting for himself. As for CJ Roberts being nominated by President Bush, correct--that's what Presidents do--like nominating someone to be Atty General, ya know!

Veritas
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.

.

yeahwhatever
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Misdirected

Main Stream, you are correct in your assessment that there are many people who call themselves Christians, and there are also even Christians who allow their sinful nature to get the best of them who make statements that are not representative of nor glorifying to God. That doesn't change the nature of God or your confusion on who you have a problem with. You lash out at other people but the source of your anger is your refusal to acknowledge that God is perfect and therefore no matter how moral or ethical you consider yourself to be by human standards you can never meet the standard set forth by your Creator. It is your own sinful nature that causes you to lash out in rebellion. Your attitude, your intellect, and your story are not new to the world. They have all been demonstrated over and over again throughout history. You cannot by force of your own will change the nature of God or change your inability to meet his perfect standard. He has shown mercy to you and all sinners by sending his son to die on the cross as a substitute for you and thereby provide you with the opportunity to accept His gift and have eternal life. You can mock all men, both believers and non-believers, but your fight is not with men - it is with God. God is waiting for you to decide to accept his gift of mercy or reject it. The choice is yours.

Ninja Guy
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Yeahwhatever, Tell Me This

As I have posted here before, I have been searching for a religion to supplement my current Taoist philosophy. After much research and discussion, I had concluded that Roman Catholicism is the best path! However, just as I was about to enroll in RCIA (Cathos should know what this is!), I thought about the premise underlying the premise!

The Jesus as a sacrifice for the sins of the world is a beautiful concept! However, let's take one step back!

We have a God, the father in the Trinity, that demands TOTAL perfection, or we are thrown into the lake of fire for all eternity, or until some point where our souls are actually destroyed and the imperfect cease to exist, if I understand correctly.

Now, let's put this in perspective. A dad here in PTC demands TOTAL perfection from his kids. No missteps what-so-ever. Even an imperfect thought is enough to get a kid thrown into the basement, which will be set ablaze with gasoline! So, the dad figures out that his kids will never be like him because they are weak and given to temptation and all kinds of other imperfections. He therefore comes up with a plan for his ONLY PERFECT son to be crucified to satisfy his unattainable demands for perfection on the part of the rest of the family!

As I said, I really like the Jesus idea, but what about the underlying notion of a father that burns his kids alive in the basement for lying about who let the cat out?

If you had a neighbor that did that, would you not not call the police immediately?

Just something to think about this Championship Sunday!

yeahwhatever
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Ninja

Your over-simplification of the nature of God doesn't allow a reasonable discussion. God the Father can't be compared to a man living next door. He is perfect and perfectly just, therefore it is silly at best and mocking at worst to compare Him to a man next door who is subject to your judgment and society's rule of law. Man is responsible for his own sinful nature. You can choose to reject the Bible as the inerrant Word of God and you can attempt to mock God with a man's imperfect reason and morals, but in the end it will be His judgment where both you and I will answer for our actions. I prefer to rely on Christ to intercede for me. If you believe that you can argue your case and show Him that he is unjust then you can make that choice. I suggest that you study the Bible and make an informed decision. You might even try attending a Bible-believing church and talk to the Pastor who can explain this better than I. I have no expectation that you should rely on my opinion or less than scholarly understanding. I can do one thing for you, though. I have a personal relationship with God and I will pray to Him on your behalf because as His adopted son that is what He expects me to do, and I want to glorify Him by being as Christ-like as my weak and sinful nature will allow. There...prayer sent.

Ninja Guy
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Yeahwhatver, Whatever

How can God be perfectly just when one slip, one thought of a slip, or for unborn babies or newborns the slip of one man long ago causes one to be thrown into the fiery furnace? Does that sound perfectly just to you? I am not being silly or mocking here. I am truly trying to understand. Any others out there want to take on this question? Does it not seem strange that God's punishment for our faults would be considered horrific if we did the same to our own children?

Also, what do you mean by Bible-believing church? What churches DON'T believe the Bible?

SPQR
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Ninja Guy

You never give up looking for rationality. Its like looking for virtue in a brothel.

Ninja Guy
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SPQR: Is that a

bad thing?

I was 100% correct in my football forecasts for the championship games!

I want the Giants to win over the Pats, but at this point I am leaning Pats. No final prediction yet. Gotta feel it out some more.

johenry
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"Tolerance" means we only appreciate what they believe

I knew Kim Learnard wasn't going to work out as a councilman when she kept spouting off in the newspaper in support of Barack Obama's healthcare plan. She's a big fan of socialized medicine. In her mind, we ought to be more like Greece. Leo Presberg shares her liberal leanings.

They are going to tell us what is right for us. They both think God isn't right for us!

I honesty believe they're entitled to their opinions but that doesn't mean we have to support them.

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