Senate GOP Doubles Down on Paul Ryan Vulture Plan
Sun, 05/29/2011 - 10:17am
In a show of unity with the GOP House, the GOP Senate voted overwhelming support for the Ryan plan. For those people 54 and younger, let me explain what the Republican Voucher Plan means to you when, (of if,) you ever reach the age to qualify for their plan.
The vouchers will not cover the cost of insurance. The vouchers will be worth less and less as each year goes by. It means more and more seniors will have to liquidate their wealth to pay for health care. The only thing that is allowed to rise is the insurance premiums and the cost of medical care.
Fixed incomes, the rising cost of health care, and a diminishing value of the vouchers will drag more and more seniors into poverty. If the Republican’s get their way the new sucking sound you hear will be the wealth of senior citizens being redistributed to the insurance companies and high cost providers.
Anyone that thinks the Republican’s won’t do it is just kidding themselves. If the Republican’s keep the majority in the House, win control of the Senate, and take the White House its goodbye Medicare for everyone.
If this scares seniors, and future seniors, to say it out load well, it should scare them. The risk is very real. If they realize it, or not, many of them are being threatened with poverty for the first time in their lives at a time in their life when they can do little to prevent it. Increasing the number of senior citizens in poverty is not ‘Freedom.’ It’s a national disgrace.
To those people 55 and older, I hope you are smart enough to realize if the Republicans are successful and take Medicare away from people 55 and under, they will come after the people 55 older next. If you think I’m making this stuff up you better start listening more carefully to what the GOP is saying and doing.
Tue, 05/31/2011 - 8:24am
#2
Kawfi & retirees
Wonder if Kawfi will ever be a retiree? What kind of health insurance does his folks have and what will he want upon retirement?
Let me explain what a retiree gets now for health insurance:
With Medicare coverage plus a supplementary insurance, everything except dentists and eyeglasses is covered by nearly all health suppliers!
The cost: less than $4000 per year. There is still about 25% of the retirees who can't afford the $4000.
If someone wants major medical and their company won't pay any of it, the cost is about $16,000 per year.
Corporations are putting more and more of the $16,000 onto the employees. Even PTC!
Now, what do the republicans want?
Retirees can either put up maybe one-half of the insurance cost or they will have to get in line for treatment by inferior suppliers.
They want to send money to people without insurance for use for health care, which will be used to buy food and shelter or whatever they want.
Then go to emergency room doors and lie down blocking the door!
There is a 30-35% WASTE in the current system but we can't allow the medical industry to keep it and take it away from the uninsured!
Doctors have already joined large corporations (unions) with "professional crooks managing it, in order to continue large salaries and too many employees.
As to the research needed and equipment improvements desired, I suppose they will issue "chits" for that also to favorite companies.
FACT IS THE ONLY SYSTEM THAT PROVIDES EQUAL HEALTHCARE TO EVERYONE IS JUST LIKE THE REST OF THE CICVILIZED WORLD HAS ONLY MORE EFFICIENT.
Or we could have say, what Africans get!
Tue, 05/31/2011 - 9:08am
#3
taking care of our old with money they paid into the system
Isn't the problem. The problem is the government BORROWING MONEY/taking, money out for other projects.
"
They use the same analogy as Smith and Smola, "just keep giving us your money to spend and we'll get it right eventually! That didn't happen with them and it won't happen with the Fed either. They thought they could use the money for their pet project and the old would die off and never need it. That is not what is happening. Now they are whinning and saying the old live to long. Shame shame.
Tue, 05/31/2011 - 9:02pm
#4
Kawfi wrote:
Kawfi wrote:
Not only that, they are going to kill all of the puppies and kittens as well.
Actually, the Republicans will start work on killing social security. It will be a market based solution. You put the money in some corporate account and they will gamble it away for you.
If you don’t like to gamble they will allow you to put your money into a “safe” investment strategy. But don’t get your hopes up. You will never see any of the gains.
While you work your ass off to save a few bucks, they will spend their time lobbying congress to allow them to charge additional fees and services that will wipe out any gains you would make.
Tue, 05/31/2011 - 9:16pm
#5
Gort Medicare and Social Security is already DEAD
you just don't know it yet.
btw-If you had of read Ryan's plan instead of the Progressive talking points you would already know that those on it stay on it. Those about to go on it get to go on it. Others get to opt out and if you are not paying in yet you never will.
Tue, 05/31/2011 - 9:29pm
#6
OofU wrote:
OofU wrote:
Medicare and Social Security is already DEAD you just don't know it yet.
Does that make you or the Ryan plan a fake?
Tue, 05/31/2011 - 9:42pm
#7
Neither Gort I just don't have the faith in Government
you and the rest have. He is trying to address a problem, but the can has been kicked so far down the road they don't realize the can is now in the ditch.
Wed, 06/01/2011 - 7:04am
#8
OofU, you don’t have faith in
OofU, you don’t have faith in Government? When President Bush was in office you thought everything was just swimming along just swell.
Tax breaks for the rich? No problem, borrow the money! Deficits didn’t matter.
The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq? No problem, borrow the money! Let’s keep a double set of books.
Unfunded Medicare Prescription Drug Plan. No problem, borrow the money!
Now you want me, “and the rest” to believe the only way out of debt is pass laws that will put more and more senior citizens into poverty?
Wed, 06/01/2011 - 9:28am
#9
No Gort....No I did not
Bush sucked. Obama just sucks worse. He is Bush on Steroids.
Have you seen the Economic report today. We are headed for a crash. Inflation or a massive spike in interest-Stagflation like under Carter. Take your pick.
Look at the jobs numbers. Housing, manufacturing all DOWN. We are borrowing $168 BILLION today.
What in any of this gives you any idea that the current regime in Wasteington knows what to do and can fix anything?
Just like the Mediscare tactics currently used. If we do nothing Medicare goes bankrupt. So Seniors get screwed, but are the Democrats working on that NO.
Next year a Panel is established under Obamacare of unelected, unanswerable bureaucrats that get the power to ration care to Seniors. Too expensive sorry Grandma you get to die a little earlier.
Also under Obamacare $500 BILLION dollars are taken out of Medicare to be used for Obamacare pet projects.
So who is stealing Grandma's medical future? It certainly isn't Ryan.
Wed, 06/01/2011 - 8:47pm
#10
OofU, please spare me your
OofU, please spare me your Bush era re-write. You carried water for the Republican’s then and you’re still doing it now. Just because you hide behind the skirts of the TeaParty don’t think we don’t see it.
The US had to borrow $168 BILLION today! Gee whiz, maybe we should have paid for those wars, tax breaks, and Medicare Drug mandates during the Bush years. If we did maybe we wouldn’t have to borrow now.
Housing is down and that is a fact. It’s down because mortgage bankers forgot how to make loans. Loose banking practices created an artificially high demand for housing. The market was saturated and now we have all these empty houses and no buyers. Don’t tell me you don’t recognize supply side economics when you see it?
Speaking of jobs, didn’t the Republicans run on a jobs platform last election? Jobs, Jobs, Jobs! What has the Republican House done in that area? Oh, nothing, I thought so! There is another reason we can’t sell all those empty houses.
“Mediscare tactics?” Are you telling me the Republican’s didn’t bring that up that $500 million during the last election? If $500 million was so terrible for Medicare why are the Republicans back so soon asking for even more? The reason is the Republican will continue to ask for more and more until the entire program is gone.
Wed, 06/01/2011 - 11:15pm
#11
Uhh Gort it's $500 Billion taken from Medicare
and used for Obamacare. Maybe if both sides had a fiscal bone in their bodies we would not be here. Maybe if Aliens invade all this will be moot. Maybe if the tooth fairy would get some help and start working in West Virginia we could correct the deficit overnight.
Maybes and what ifs are irrelevant Gort. Pointing fingers at the past carries you only so far. Today and tomorrow is the only thing that matters. We have a major crisis awaiting around the corner and no amount of wishing it away or saying it's their fault really matters does it Gort? Did you see the Market today? Do you know why it fell 300+ points?
Greece is about to be in default. The Euro bailout has failed. Spain, Portugal, Italy and France will be next followed by the UK and the US.
We have so many problems with our economic future right now that only a MASSIVE entitlement shutdown coupled with de-funding of 70% of Government will avert the crash.
Gort Medicare is at most a few years away from a complete collapse. If that happens guess what Gort no one gets it.
So do you suggest we just keep spending our future away? You do know it has to come to an end sometime right? Do you really believe we can spend forever and have no consequence's from that action?
Thu, 06/02/2011 - 9:39am
#12
About that "$500 Billion Taken From Medicare"...
Observerofu, I realize that inbred slack-jawed mouth-breathing knuckle-dragging Alabama white trash such as yourself aren't interested in concepts such as "truth" and "accuracy". Other people might be, though, so I would like to set the record straight about this purported "$500 Billion Taken From Medicare".
$500 billion was NOT taken from Medicare, it was taken from a separate program called "Medicare Advantage". "Medicare Advantage" was a political slush fund created by George W. Bush and the Republicans to send Federal funds directly to politically connected insurance companies so that they might "compete" with Medicare. President Obama ended this gravy train.
I suspect a true libertarian would applaud the cessation of tax dollars being sent to private entities. Since you are not a libertarian, you naturally have a problem with this.
Thu, 06/02/2011 - 7:30pm
#13
Bacon, I agree with you about
Bacon, I agree with you about the $500 Billion and "Medicare Advantage." I was using the $500 Billion as a prop to foil OofU’s claim that it’s the Democrats playing “Mediscare.”
IMHO, getting rid of "Medicare Advantage" comes under the heading of removing duplication and waste in the system.
Sat, 06/04/2011 - 11:59pm
#14
Nah never gonna happen. You can cuss, scream, rant and rave
but bacon you can't insult me. Why do you keep trying. You matter to me as much as any other pest to be squashed and then move on. Do you really think you are winning any debates by these tactics. All it does is show what a low class individual you are.
btw-Nice info from Media Matters bacon here are some additional sites.
"A blockbuster study by the bureaucracy that manages Medicare and Medicaid threw a deluge of cold water on claims by Barack Obama and Congressional Democrats that $500 billion in cuts to Medicare would improve coverage for seniors. The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services reported that the cuts would likely reduce the number of providers available to seniors, reduce their care options, and create an access crisis. The only fix that would address that would be to restore much of what Congress has cut — which would wipe out the funding for ObamaCare (via HA reader Geoff A):
A plan to slash more than $500 billion from future Medicare spending — one of the biggest sources of funding for President Obama’s proposed overhaul of the nation’s health-care system — would sharply reduce benefits for some senior citizens and could jeopardize access to care for millions of others, according to a government evaluation released Saturday."
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/11/15/study-shows-obamacare-would-cut-me...
"Three-quarters of ObamaCare is to be financed by slashing $500 billion from Medicare over the next 10 years. "
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/09/29/_elderly_moving_aga...
Whatever you want to call it bacon/gort/bonkers or whoever... $500 billion dollars diverted from a Social system designed to provide "life" support to Seniors harms their overall stability.
Rather by design or by default the money is being removed over a 10 year span into some other "nebulous" government program and it was counted twice.
http://www.medicare.gov/navigation/medicare-basics/medicare-benefits/par...
Wed, 06/01/2011 - 7:37am
#15
Gort, I don't know about the Ryan plan but
charity begins at home not with government redistribution of income.
Try taking care of your our elderly and they will do just fine. Everyone has at least one or two and it's worthy cause.
You can use all the funds in whatever way you see fit. No one to pilfer but you. Take as much as you like or contribute as much as you like.
Wed, 06/01/2011 - 8:56pm
#16
BHH, if we were talking about
BHH, if we were talking about charity, perhaps I might agree with you, but we are not.
We are talking about an insurance program called Medicare. People pay real money to finance that plan and it prevents many senior citizens from slipping into poverty.
You say:
Try taking care of your own elderly and they will do just fine.
I say,
Blind optimism is no substitute for properly managing the financial risk of high cost medical procedures.
Thu, 06/02/2011 - 8:04am
#17
Here is another Quote
I say,
Blind optimism is no substitute for properly managing the financial risk of high cost medical procedures.
And I say blind ignorance only makes you more ignorant.
Can we keep spending at current levels with no consequences?
Can we maintain programs that are going bankrupt at current levels?
Can we continue to ignore the deficit?
Can we continue to "print" money and monetize the debt without harming the economy further?
Answer these Gort. I noticed you skipped right over them on my last response.
Thu, 06/02/2011 - 7:28pm
#18
OofU, keep your shirt on, I
OofU, keep your shirt on, I can’t be in two places at once! We all don’t live the life of a superman. Some of us work a job for a living.
You wrote:
.., blind ignorance only makes you more ignorant.
My reply to you sir is this:
You must have been looking in the mirror when you typed that! 8 - )
Now, about those “Can we,” questions you asked about. Here is my answer. No, No, (pause,) No, (pause again,) and No!
Does that mean I accept the solution you posted on “Wed, 06/01/2011 - 11:15pm.?”
We have so many problems with our economic future right now that only a MASSIVE entitlement shutdown coupled with de-funding of 70% of Government will avert the crash.
Let me answer you using the style of words of our current “Weeper of the House,” John Boehner.
“Hell, No I don’t!”
My expectation is the Democrats should fight as hard to save Medicare as the Republicans fight to give tax breaks to the wealthy. I don't mind if waste and duplication is cut from the program but when all is said and done, I want Medicare to be there for our seniors. Perhaps its time to take out that old “Laffer Curve” and start searching again for the ever elusive “X”!
Sun, 06/05/2011 - 10:03am
#19
That's just it
Medicare IS NOT GOING TO BE THERE as long as you guys keep the STATUS QUO.
The Government has overspent. Overspent us near into the abyss and all you guys can say is give us more to spend, we'll fix it.
NO MORE and that's my final answer.
Sun, 06/05/2011 - 8:11pm
#20
OofU, as I said in my
OofU, as I said in my original post. The only way Medicare won’t be there is …
If the Republican’s keep the majority in the House, win control of the Senate, and take the White House its goodbye Medicare for everyone.
We know you just want to use the money saved from killing Medicare to reward the benefactors of your TeaParty.
This bull about killing Medicare to save it is really just “Republican 1984 Speak” for killing the elderly to reward the rich.
Thu, 06/02/2011 - 8:56pm
#21
It might be interesting
to read Ryans Plan
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/fact-checking-the-...
Other sites to check out: FactChjeck.org; PolitiFact; Ontheissues.org; RealClearPolitics; Opem Secrets.org
I'm sure Joe Kawfi and OOU have some sites that they feel would give interested citizens a more informed look at what is in the Ryan Plan.
Sun, 06/05/2011 - 8:41pm
#22
Yeah..Yeah I know scaring granny
is what you guys do best.
One problem however, Granny is in the teaparty.
To those people 55 and older, I hope you are smart enough to realize if the Republicans are successful and take Medicare away from people 55 and under, they will come after the people 55 older next. If you think I’m making this stuff up you better start listening more carefully to what the GOP is saying and doing.
Not only that, they are going to kill all of the puppies and kittens as well.
Medicare facts on GOP’s side
The Democrats’ solution to rising Medicare costs is rationing. They deny it, but the Independent Payment Advisory Board (which will not come into existence until after the 2012 election), a 15-person panel created by Obamacare, would have virtually unreviewable discretion to set prices for medical services. While it’s technically true that the IPAB wouldn’t have the power to prevent doctors from performing services, the low reimbursement levels will surely dry up the number of doctors willing to take Medicare patients.
Liberals think that this bloated, mismanaged, with 24.6 trillion in unfunded liabilities is sustainable in its present form. The grown ups in the room are trying to fix it while the liberal democrats offer no plan.