Haley Barbour Opts Out

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PTC Observer
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DM/Elections

I am not saying that there aren't "little" people donating to both sides, I am just saying that the big money is behind Mr. Obama, just like it was behind Mr. Bush.

Sitting Presidents get lots and lots of donations from very deep pockets, but not for nothing. The special interests all want something in return and they always get it. You really don't think GM was "saved" by the government for no reason. GM is a union benefits company that happens to make cars. The list goes on and on, but it would be the same thing if a Republican was President, the special interests would be different that's all.

Davids mom
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PTC

I agree. We have given the store to 'special interests'. If more than 40 % of eligible voters would vote, maybe the 'people' could regain control.

mudcat
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You got it half right, Jeff

The Dems will demonize her, attack her personally, even attack her kids. In short they will pull out all the stops to be sure she marginalized in the press - all too willing to comply.

The reason however is that they do this not based on qualifications, both she and Palin are much more qualified than Obama, but the Dems are truly frightened of a woman going off the Democratic reservation and taking an opposing view to the tax and spend, abortion on demand, redistribute the wealth nonsense that is ruining the country. The Dems think women vote with their hearts instead of their heads and when a Palin or a Bachmann makes it clear that not all women are mindless twits, the Dems worry about mass defection among female voters. So, they have to portray them as out of control renegades to keep the rest of the women under control. Of course that has never worked on me and I doubt it is going to work at all this time, but it is right there in the Democrat playbook circa 1956.

This is not exclusive to female candidates either. If a black like Herman Cain or a Hispanic like Marco Rubio gains prominance, the same type of coordinated attack will occur as they are afraid of losing one of their "safe" ethnic voting blocs. They obviously don't care about qualifications - only votes.

roundabout
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MUD

I sure would appreciate your definition of who is qualified to be President of the United States!

Palin more qualified than President Obama ( I say Palin and not governor Palin because she quit).
An Eskimo who went through high school in Anchorage and had been tribal chief would be OK as governor of Alaska. All he has to do is take whatever action is required to get the Oil companies in Alaska to keep sending all native Alaskans a check every month on which to live.

That is very much totally British or French politics to do that, and illegal. Georgia doesn't get an checks from oil companies--we buy their $4 gasoline!

Is the fact that Palin belongs to a holy-roller church, speaks in tongues, and handles Alaskan snakes, and picks up hot stoves with her bare arms--not to mention her old night correspondence education and her bum husband, or her inereference in her sister's legal problems by siccing her husband on the law.

That is all of the qualifications I know about her except she doesn't read, and screeches simple speeches to nuts.
She also probably has more children problems than did the Reagans'.

Robert W. Morgan
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Jeff, this is the kind of attack that proves the mudcat's point

Immature, illogical and 100% personal. Even includes the kids. There must be a source somewhere that pathetic little people blogging in pajamas from their parent's basement can go to find pre-written attacks on Palin and others.

roundabout
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Morgan

I consult only with the old reverend who has again predicted the end of the world Saturday. He missed it once before but that was just a matter of timing!

I don't wear pajamas nor live in a basement. I don't attack!

Where are these pre-written attacks?
I learn most of my "attacks" from you---just change the name!

I felt sure that if Palin won she would appoint Ahhhrronalde to her cabinet, but I suppose now he would have to be saved again from his sins to qualify. Maybe as Treasury Secretary.

JeffC
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Well mudcat

You will not be surprised that, that is not exactly the way I see it. It seems to me that the Republicans are always playing the victim card. Poor Palin and poor Bachmann; everybody's picking on them because they are women.Palin has played up being a victim to a professional level now. It's as if somehow the Republican candidates don't get to be vetted, especially if they are women, because their tender feelings might get hurt. Bachmann and Palin are portrayed as mindless twits because they are mindless twits, not because they are women. Can you imagine Palin or Bachman debating Jeane Kirkpatrick?

And while you accuse the Dems, let's watch to see who says what during the primaries. Let's see if you Republicans will actually vote for a black guy or an Hispanic or a woman. Not likely. They won't pass the Republican litmus tests. Y'all choked on Mitt because he's a Mormon. It's a huge issue for the Rs. Harry Reid and Morris Udall are Mormons and nobody even knew it because it was totally irrelevant to the Ds.

The Dems won't even get a chance at this group. They will all be gone before the general election.

Robert W. Morgan
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Mindless twit was foster parent to 23 kids, JeffC?

That mindless twit fostered 23 kids? Plus some of her own? And you think she is a mindless twit? Could you do that? El Jeffe - take it back. Bachmann is a better woman than you.

The inflammatory name calling you Democrats do is uncalled for, unappreciated, immature and designed only to inflame. Get a life you mindless twit.

JeffC
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Yep, mindless twit Robert

I'm delighted that she fostered 23 children!

However, only Republican primary voters think that qualifies her to be President.

She's a fringe candidate. She's fixin' to hire Iowa state Sen. Kent Sorenson as her political director. He's the author of the Iowa Birther legislation. His latest is SF347 which would put Iowa on the gold and silver standard. Taxes would be assessed in ounces of silver.

Here's Bachmann:

"We know that was slavery that was still tolerated when the nation began. We know that was an evil and a block and a stain upon our history. But we also know that the very founders that wrote those documents worked tirelessly until slavery was no more in the United States."

“They aren’t just kind of gay-friendly, they are gay advocates at Proctor and Gamble… Here’s just a few other companies that support the pro-homosexual agenda. They include Levi-Strauss, American Airlines, Sarah Lee Bakery, Jaguar and LandRover.”

Talking about gay marriage: “This is probably the biggest issue that will impact our state and our nation in the last, at least, thirty years. I am not understating that.”

"I wish the American media would take a great look at the views of the people in Congress and find out: Are they pro-America or anti-America?"

“You’re the state where the shot was heard around the world at Lexington and Concord.”

I really like this one commenting on Governor Pawlenty’s “Tax-Free Zones” initiative:

“…it’s all for the planned redistribution of wealth which is also stated in this document, the redistribution of wealth which is based on a new concept called equity. And it says this: we must not lose sight of equity, or fairness based on need. Where have you heard that here, today? From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.”

Pawlenty the Marxist! The debates will be interesting.

Bachmann is a fringe nut. The issues she thinks are important are irrelevant, her knowledge of American history is secondary at best, her position on the real issues is unknown because she is ignorant of them and hasn't been coached on what to think yet. When her handlers tell her what to think, she'll have no way to evaluate it nor any ability to discuss the issue in depth. Just like Palin.

She'll end up on FOX whining and complaining that the Dems pulled the ultimate dirty trick: quoting her verbatim.

Just like Palin.

Go ahead and nominate her.

NUK_1
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You're too generous Jeff

You left out the "200 million dollars a day cost" for Obama's trip to Asia, the forced teaching of intelligent design, and the big winner, trying to name the USD as the only currency of the USA even though that's already been the law forever and still is. Yep, real winner there.

JeffC
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Well Nuk

There was so much to chose from...

She's stupid. It's not my fault.

Mike King
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Now Jeff...

....do you see your side as the elitist ruling class that defames each and every individual that takes a stand for grass roots American values? Are you contemplating that our esteemed President was imminently more qualified to be President than Mr McCain? Given, to me neither had the experience of doing anything outside government that would qualify either.

We both realize that Mr Obama has his shortcomings. Can you honestly state that your paternal grandmother would have endorsed this empty suit?

JeffC
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Yes Mike

Grandma would definitely support him. Granddaddy would be really, really, iffy.

NUK_1
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JeffC is about 75% right

Palin is actually a little sharper than mindless twit and dimwitted grandstander Michelle Bachmann. Palin was smart enough to not endorse Bachmann for any leadership position post-election, which at least shows that Palin is capable of adapting and learning about the political realm.

The infatuation with a hard-right fundie in Bachmann in some TP circles amuses me because I thought the TP was more about fiscal issues and small government than the social issues. How anything calling itself the Tea Party can get behind a Bachmann is beyond me, but then again they also thought Joe Miller(total idiot), Sharron Angle(can't beat Reid of all people because she's even worse than him) and deadbeat Christine O'Donnell were solid candidates too.

I really hope Bachmann in fact does run so she can get absolutely buried and marginalized as she should be so better candidates and politico's might get some attention instead.

The media is giving Bachmann plenty of attention now because they are salivating at the chance to rip her to shreds now that even better target Donald Trump has left the building.

JeffC is also dead-on with his other assessments about the Repubs and who they actually vote for. The idea of Palin or Bachmann having a debate with someone like Kirkpatrick was and getting demolished is also correct.

PTC Observer
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Nuk_1 - She'll run

She'll run Nuk_1, she really believes she can win. She doesn't know she is an idiot with crazy ideas. She will be marginalized, she will lose, the Republicans will be split on a candidate and Mr. Obama will win. While the Republicans rip themselves apart, Mr. Obama will use his billion dollars and get re-elected.

Now, the Senate that's a different story. The Democrats will likely lose the Senate, the Republicans will also increase their hold on the House.

The country will continue in a decaying fiscal orbit for four more years. The question is can we survive as a country until then?

Kind of makes Rep. Bachmann's futile run for President seem insignificant doesn't it?

NUK_1
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Very true PTC Ob

I agree with your initial post about how 2012 House/Senate is the real battle, the only concern I have about Obama being re-elected(which I think he will)is the possible appointments to the Supreme Court and continued control of govt agencies where he has some real losers on the FCC, NLRB, TSA, among others.

Not that I would expect any Repub to do much different than the status quo even if they did manage an upset over Obama. If the Repubs take the Senate back, it will be another situation that the American public seems to favor of the Prez being in one party and the other controlling the House/Senate, at least for a while, and then they'll want some non-change for a few years, then rinse and repeat.

Bedtime for Democracy!

PTC Observer
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Nuk_1 - Bedtime

Bedtime indeed, but what will replace it?

Robert W. Morgan
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You guys have been distracted by a master of manipulation

That being JeffC. The discussion started about Bachmann's qualifications and how the Dems would demonize her because she is a woman outside the virtual stockade that Dems create for all women. Jeff diverted you with the argument that she says stupid thing (she does), cares about silly social issues (she does) and even bought into the birther nonsense. None of that has anything to do with her qualifications to be President. On paper, her qualifications far surpass those of Prezbo - now or when he was first a candidate. Qualifications - she has them. Demonization by Dems - you have seen it - Jeff being better than most. And no, she is not a serious candidate, but she will forever be known as a "former Presidential candidate" and that will help at reelection time and when she negotiates a book deal. And there are some others that are in this for the same shallow reasons.

Observerofu
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We know RWM
Robert W. Morgan wrote:

That being JeffC. The discussion started about Bachmann's qualifications and how the Dems would demonize her because she is a woman outside the virtual stockade that Dems create for all women. Jeff diverted you with the argument that she says stupid thing (she does)

That is your opinion Robert, but show me where that has not happened to everyone. Overall she is a very knowledgeable and capable politician.

Robert W. Morgan wrote:

cares about silly social issues (she does)

You say this as a negative. It's about principals you consider some to be silly others consider them to be important.

Robert W. Morgan wrote:

and even bought into the birther nonsense.

Uhh.. actually no she did not. She said it was for Obama to clear up. She said it was not her place to speculate. May have been a typical politicians answer but she definitively did not "Buy into it".

JeffC
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Manipulation Robert?

I've just stated facts. That's manipulation?

Joe Kawfi
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Obama's base

Here is an example of what Obama's base looks like -

$2M Michigan lottery winner defends use of food stamps

They are all just a bunch of lying hypocrites that do nothing but take, take, take. They are fine spending other peoples money, but are some of the most miserly, mean, hateful people in the country.

maximus
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How about obumbles debating Kirkpatrick, jeff?

That would be hilarious watching him or that idiot vp getting ripped to shreds.

JeffC
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Ah maximus

I would pay to watch that!

maximus
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I guess I pegged you wrong, jeff

I thought you liked the dim-witted duo.

JeffC
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I do like them maximus

But it would be glorious! I think Obama is smarter than you think. Nevertheless, given my position, you will of course forgive me for not predicting the winner. Right?

roundabout
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CARDS played?

I have never understood the playing of cards to make a political point.

We seem to have victim cards, you mentioned that, race cards, pity cards, Reagan cards (King Renaldo), Ollie cards, (blustery), who creates jobs cards, (any republican), welfare queen cards (any republican), food stamps cards (any republican), foreign aid cards (any republican), tax cards (any republican), birth certificate cards (any TEA), Obama's college grades cards, (any TEA), and the list goes on.

The democrats seem to only have one card and it has a picture of Herbert Hoover, Richard Nixon, Barry Goldwater, G.W. Bush, and on the back just FDR in a full page, in color, with cigarette holder running for four terms!

What does that all indicate? That we are naive stupid people?

Davids mom
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American female leaders

Ferraro, Clinton, - well qualified, strong women. The Republicans.have equally qualified women leaders. One wonders why they showcase a Palin or a Bachmann for public office.

PTC Observer
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Jeff C - Bachmann - Qualifications?

* A member of the United States House of Representatives for Minnesota's 6th congressional district
* Minnesota State Senate
* Master of Laws degree
* Tax attorney

Now I don't support Ms. Bachmann but to say she has no qualifications is like saying that Mr. Obama had no qualifications before being elected.

Right Jeff?

roundabout
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PTCO: Bachmann

Been looking for definition of qualified to be President.

OK:

A member of congress and formerly a local poliician who has a LaSalle law degree an fills out taxes and sues the government.

A republican.

PTC Observer
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Rounder

I didn't say she was qualified, I was responding to JeffC's comment that she had no qualification. Clearly she has as many as our current President, maybe more.

If we look at qualifications we hit a new low with Mr. Obama. Based on his "qualifications" just about anyone is qualified.

Royberns
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Bachmann

Some smart guy said that Bachmann will be favored by those that think Palin is too intellectual..

You can talk about 'a box of rocks' all day. But, it will still be dumb.

roundabout
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Morgan & Bladder

I am amuzed by so many of you picking women for th VP spot. McCain trid that to get women's votes and of course it didn't work.

Believe it or not but we need a "qualified" Vice President who can assist the President and be President if necesary.

There may well be a few women who are qualified but they don't have the charisma and beauty some think necessary to win.

That lady in Arizona who is the governor seem to have what it takes! But no, she hates minorities----so what, so do her voters?

bladderq
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Daddy Bush WEEPS

Daddy Bush crys everytime he thinks about Jeb's loss in '94. Oh, how history could have been different.

roundabout
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Bush weeps

I think son Neal and the banks gave him more weeping time than did JEB and the thieving wife of JEBS.

George W. didn't make him too proud either. Although Zapata Oil made them all rich, and not the Mexicans! (To those of you requiring proof of Zapata, I suggest you do your own research on that one).

JeffC
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Santorum - Open mouth, Insert foot

This guys being seriously considered by some:

Santorum Says McCain ‘Doesn’t Understand’ Enhanced Interrogation

Seems like a long shot.

JeffC
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Republican candidate suggestion - seriously

What am I missing?

The Republican field looks weak right now and there seems to be a lot of dissatisfaction even consternation in the Rs ranks about it. After looking at it a little, it strikes me that you have a proven tax cutter, government shrinker, strong on immigration, Southerner, okay with the social conservatives, demonstrated record, proven vote getter, who seems to have been overlooked.

Why isn't there a clamor for Rick Perry?

Mike King
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Jeff

Again you're spot on with your assessments of potential Obama opponents, and it is truly sad that a country as great as ours will reelect an individual whose only real accomplishment was defeating Hillary Clinton. Kind of like Haddix in the White House, an underqualified egotist.

mudcat
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Yes Jeffc, you got it!

Obama wins in a mudslide. A mudslide of Republicans self-imploding by not having the ability to put up a candidate that is even halfway electable. I still think he dumps Biden and gets a chick on the ballot as VP, which makes him more of a shoo-in.

Sad, sad, sad. The country is toast.

kevink
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Mudcat. Forgive me for rejoicing in your misery.

Quick question:

"Sad, sad, sad. The country is toast."

Mudcat, what is going to happen to The United Stated, the country I happen to feel is the best place on planet Earth to live?

mudcat
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Kinky Kevin, your answer about the country awaits - read on

What is going to happen, you ask. Well here are some ideas for you to chew on:

1. China owns our debt and she/he/it forces us to divert payments from welfare and food stamps to service their debt.

2. The good old US of A defaults on the welfare payments to slugs and welfare queens and they take to the streets with guns demanding their fair share. Real people who actually earn money stop working to defend their turf.

3. Social Security runs out of money and seniors take to the streets and starve to death.

4. Medicare runs out of money and seniors die. Of course that cancels out #3 above.

5. Privately owned businesses fail because of excessive taxation and China (see #1 above) takes them over and creates a state-owned business sector. The unemployed (see #2 above) become government workers.

6. Nobody left to pay taxes to fund the whole thing, so the system collapses on itself.

Any other questions, Kevin?

kevink
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Just one more question Mudcat..

Zanex or Prozac?

mudcat
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My guess would be Zanex for you Kevin

Zanex is cheaper and I think you will need to take a lot of it for a long time and you'll need the extra cash for $10 leaves of bread and $25 gallons of milk.

maximus
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Nice analysis, Mudcat.

But I would add 1 more bullet:

7. After turning the slugs and welfare queens into government workers, the Chinese discover that it’s impossible to actually get any work out of them, and their system collapses into chaos.

Joke’s on them!

mudcat
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Actually, the Chinese solution to that is --um, well, final.

Chairman Mao had a system for dealing with that. It involved mass graves. I do think that somewhere between 10 and 15% of the slugs and gang bangers and pants-on-the-ground crowd will see the light when the executions start and become loyalists. The welfare queens? Well, China has a one-child policy and doesn't like females in general, so they won't be as lucky.

maximus
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Dang, Mudcat,…

…those Chinese think of everything. Maybe we should include a free ticket to the “Land of the Divine” with next month’s welfare payments.

roundabout
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TOAST!

China has about 20% of our debt for which we buy tons of junk from them, and they can't call in the money or we will eliminate their economy!

Slugs and Queens on welfare: Most of them are unfortunate white people-=--maybe you don't know that!

Social Security won't run out of money. The law says it is a legal obligation to the retired and if necessary the congress would have to pay for it out of the budget up to the bonds held by SS of our government, money collected over the years, and borrowed by congress.
Most people don't understand how that works, and don't care to.

The new health plan remedies the Medicare situation!

Private businesses pass on to the consumer any taxes they pay!

We don't even need people to pay taxes! Just business and tariffs!

If people paid no taxes their spending would increase.

Did you study economics?

Observerofu
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But, but it's my turn

that is what the Blue blooded Republicans are chanting now.

Mud you are quiet correct. Obama will get 4 more years. The only thing we can do is make sure we keep the House and turn over more in the Senate. Maybe we can keep Obama and his minions pinned up for 4 more years if the Country last long enough that is. I doubt we will make it to 2012 anyway our debt bomb is set to go off June 31st.

THe Fed will have 2 choices inflate the money supply again QE3 or start borrowing real money.

Either way it's either inflation or stagnation. Not good either choice.

maximus
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It's not always an "either or", observer

As the former WPOTUS (worst president of the United States) Jimmy Carter demonstrated, you can have both inflation and stagnation.

JeffC
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Welcome back Maximus!

Let's just forget stagflation under Nixon, his disastrous wage and price controls, and Ford's Whip Inflation Now program. It all really started under Carter.

maximus
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Hi Jeff! You’re right.

Price and wage controls are always disastrous. Even the AFL-CIO, which was not run by a communist at the time, knew that and denounced Jimmy’s call for businesses and unions to hold to “voluntary limits on wage increases”. Such leadership!

What were the inflation and interest rates when he was thrown out of office? 13% and 18% sound familiar, but according to his democrat opponent, Ted Kennedy, inflation went from 4.8% in 1976 to over 18% in 1980!

He probably agrees with Obamarx’s handling of high gas prices – punish the oil companies and ban drilling. Price controls are sure to be next.

But seriously, you must be happy that Obumbles has replaced him as WPOTUS.

JeffC
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Typical right-wing propaganda Max

Oil production is up under Obama and there are more drilling platforms operating now than under Bush. And domestic oil production fell under Bush. Facts used to be relevant.

maximus
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Talk about propaganda, Jeff...

Does anyone in their right mind really believe that obumbles is pro-drilling? Rigs are leaving the Gulf because they aren't allowed to operate and heading for Brazil and elsewhere, and more areas have been made off limits. Any drilling going on now was started years ago.

Chris P. Bacon
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Blowout preventers
maximus wrote:

DERP DERP DERP Does anyone in their right mind really believe that obumbles is pro-drilling? DERP DERP DERP Rigs are leaving the Gulf because they aren't allowed to operate and heading for Brazil and elsewhere, and more areas have been made off limits. DERP DERP DERP Any drilling going on now was started years ago.DERP DERP DERP

President Obama instituted a temporary moratorium on deep water exploratory rigs drilling deeper than 500 feet (79 out of 3500, or TWO PERCENT) so that new regulations regarding operation and training of blowout preventers could be enacted to keep a repeat of the BP disaster from occuring again. The moratorium expired in October 2010.

Of course, the "DERP DERP DERP" crowd thinks safety regulations are "anti-business".

Maxipad asks who in their right mind thought that President Obama was "pro-drilling"...well, those commies at Forbes magazine for one! "Obama drill-baby-drills as much as Bush"

Also worth noting from the article: Some rigs ARE relocating to Brazil, because Dubya nominees at the American Import-Export Bank gave billions in cheap loans to Brazillian oil producers, making it more profitable to drill in Brazil!

Why do Republicans hate America?

edited to add: one more link HERE from a treehugger lefty site whining about how obama has expanded oil drilling programs way beyond even the hated Dubya!

Spin THAT!

Observerofu
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I just have to keep doing it

Refuting Bacon's crap stats is like taking candy from a bacon uh...errr....baby.

Chris P. Bacon wrote:

President Obama instituted a temporary moratorium on deep water exploratory rigs drilling deeper than 500 feet (79 out of 3500, or TWO PERCENT) so that new regulations regarding operation and training of blowout preventers could be enacted to keep a repeat of the BP disaster from occuring again. The moratorium expired in October 2010.

Of course, the "DERP DERP DERP" crowd thinks safety regulations are "anti-business".

Maxipad asks who in their right mind thought that President Obama was "pro-drilling"...well, those commies at Forbes magazine for one! "Obama drill-baby-drills as much as Bush"

Also worth noting from the article: Some rigs ARE relocating to Brazil, because Dubya nominees at the American Import-Export Bank gave billions in cheap loans to Brazillian oil producers, making it more profitable to drill in Brazil!

Why do Republicans hate America?

edited to add: one more link HERE from a treehugger lefty site whining about how obama has expanded oil drilling programs way beyond even the hated Dubya!

Spin THAT!

Analysis: After BP spill, U.S. drill permits slow to a trickle

"(Reuters) - Nearly a year after BP Plc's Gulf of Mexico oil spill spurred a shutdown of new U.S. deepwater oil and gas drilling, offshore regulators have begun to approve a trickle of new permits."
"The pace of government-issued permits so far in 2011 is about a third the rate for the same period in each of the previous five years, 40 versus an average of 119 in 2006 through 2010."

Obama quote:"'Energy Prices Will Skyrocket Under My Cap and Trade Plan'"

Opening up wells ALREADY permitted before the spill is NOT NEW permits and most of these wells that are getting permits were already in the Que.

The permitting process has slowed to a crawl under Obama.

I suppose to Oil hating Liberals one well permit is too much so I guess using their (sic)logic Obama is expanding oil drilling beyond their wildest nightmares.

Gore: 'Completely eliminate the internal combustion engine'

The Earth has a Feeeeverrr. According to Gore the Earth is hotter than the Sun:
"cause the interior of the earth is extremely hot, several million degrees, and the crust of the earth is hot..." Al Gore

Obama is doing NOTHING to ease our energy crisis in fact his intent is to let others do the drilling just not US.

JeffC
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I must say Maximus

I'm kind of surprised.

You usually rely on facts. Are there more oil drilling rigs in the Gulf now or when Bush was President? Has domestic production gone up or not; reversing the trend under the previous administration?

I didn't say the propaganda wasn't good, just that it is erroneous.

maximus
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Another lame spin attempt, jeff

What part of what I said was not fact? Most of the oil wells that are producing now were permitted Years Ago. If obamarx actually works on increasing production I'll be shocked, and happy. But he won't. He needs to keep some of his lunatic base happy and they don't like evil oil companies.

roundabout
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Maximus

Oil companies have always been "evil."

When the seven sisters (oil companies) existed they started many wars in order to occupy where the oil was!

You see what they did to the Gulf?

There are dozens of other oil swamps all over the world also! People are still dying from them.

Dividends is the goal---nothing else.

Davids mom
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Lunatic oil companies

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/ike.asp

Ike warned us about these 'lunatic oil companies'. . . .Bush was only 9 years old at the time, but unfortunately became one of 'them'. Bush's advisors should have heeded Ike's message - but by the time Obama was elected, the damage had been done.

If we only could decrease the demand for oil (gas) by not buying at the pump, we might stop this insane speculation that is driving the price of gas up - NOT THE SHORTAGE OF OIL! Check out the profit of the oil companies - while small businesses are striving to get back on their feet. The proposal to cut out the safety blanket (social security, medicare, etc.) in 10 to 20 years spells disaster - and very little debt reduction. Cut spending is a given - no matter what economic ideology one believes in. However, we do need to look to the future and not cut off our nose to spite our face. I did some checking when someone mentioned that today the majority on 'welfare' are hard-working 'white' people who have been hard hit by the recession.. . .not what some call welfare queens and thugs - that are assumed to all be of another 'race'. That information is correct. Middle class America has taken a beating. . . regardless of the color of their skin. It's becoming clear that one of the strategies being used to get votes is playing to people who don't want to pay for others 'laziness or corruption'. . and using color prejudice to stir people up against common sense IMO.

Spyglass
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Compare profit margins of oil companies

and fast food companies and get back to me.

I have no idea what "white" people being on welfare have to do with anything in regards to your post.

What did I miss?

Davids mom
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Missed

That some citizens may listen to the proposal to cut off our safety net that Ike mentioned because they believe that only 'welfare queens and thugs' benefit - - and there are those who feel that only those of another 'race' benefit from this safety net. Read Ike's message that is in the provided link. My message relates to his message in the link.

Spyglass
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They aren't going to cut SS much..IF at all.

they might raise the age that you start getting it. But they will NOT cut benefits on anyone who worked and paid into the system as it was originally designed.

Davids mom
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Spyglass

Check out all proposals - and some of the 'suggestions' written on this board. Who is your 'they'?

mudcat
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"they" would be spineless politicians

who will never, ever touch the benefits paid to anyone over 40 years old. They may in fact raise the retirement age (and should), but they will make it effective for those currently 30 or below - you know, the one's that never think about getting old and won't change their voting patterns over something so trivial to them- mostly idealistic young liberals.

Spyglass
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"cutting SS"...I cannot for the life of me see why

people fall into this trap every so often. My Grandmother is one of them. She'll donate to anyone who says they will "protect" her SS. I tell her she is wasting her money.

Spyglass
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Mud hit it above

It happens every year. Yet, they cut nothing...oh they move the retirement age every so often and people continue to contribute to this uesless fund without a whimper. Like we have a choice.

kevink
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Maximus. I like the comedic levity you have brought back to us.

This is great. You enter and hurl some fact-free cannon balls. Nothing new. You are then given non-subjective facts on oil production. Bacon gives you links. And your response seems to skillfully avoid any and all analysis of fact. Again, that's all well and good and nothing unusual from *conservatives ashamed of The United States.

Here is my question:

Who will lead our country in 2012, in an effort to restore America to whatever it is you want to see it become? Who will The GOP BP/Exxon-Mobil presidential candidate be?

When will BP get its life back Maximus?

Chris P. Bacon
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"Fact free cannonballs"!

"Fact free cannonballs"....I love it!

Maxipad certainly has issues with truthiness, though he has yet to sink to the level of Observerofu/NotLindsey or Joe Kawfi. He put so much spin on stories that one cannot help but be amused.

Here's how the Maxipads of the world spun the 2008 election:

"The 2008 election was a complete vindication of Republican policy! If you look at the election results, among the major parties, McCain finished second and Obama next to last! DERP DERP DERP!"

kevink
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Maximus. Apparently Tony Hayward got his life and spokesman...

back. Are they paying you, or do you have a "Drill baby Drill" bumper sticker business? You are a resourceful gentleman. As an honest man, what historical affect has increased oil production in the U.S. had on the global price of oil? No matter which administration approved the wells. The "Drill baby Drill" argument had its butt handed to it in the 2008 presidential election, and it makes just as much sense now IMHO.

maximus
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“Drill, baby, drill” is so 2010, hack.

The new mantra is “frack, baby, frack!”

That’s where our best hope lies now. Of course the chicken licken envirocommies are starting to take note and try to shut that down too. Fortunately, obumbles is scared of the gas prices right now so doesn’t seem inclined to go along with them.

I wish obamarx would start handing out drilling permits like welfare checks, but it ain’t gonna happen – and they’ll all come with strings attached designed to slow everything down.

Do you really think that increased Gulf production in 2009 was his doing? Or even 2010? It’s expected to drop from here according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration http://www.eia.doe.gov/steo/cf_tables/steotables.cfm?tableNumber=9. That’s where my “fact-free cannonballs” came from. I don’t know why they would lie about it.

You asked “…what historical affect has increased oil production in the U.S. had on the global price of oil?” Is that a serious question? All production, if it’s usable, will affect the world price. If you want an extreme example just go back to John D. Rockefeller. The people wanted kerosene, and they wanted it cheap so that’s what he gave them. Lots of it! That, of course, is one of the main factors that fueled this country in to the great nation that it is today. Not social security, Medicare, and unemployment insurance like that Marxist in the White House said in his pathetic speech.

I’m hittin’ the road now, so have a nice weekend. I’ll try to be better about staying in touch. I know you guys miss me.

Cyclist
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While we sit here and debate....

about drilling - which I really think that the market should determine - our "guv" spent money on things such as:

Studying Male Prostitutes in Vietnam - (San Juan, Puerto Rico)$442,340

Teaching South African Men How to Wash Their Genitalia -(Los Angeles, CA) $823,200.

Gold-Plated Potties in the Woods - (Denali National Park, AK)$1.49 Million,

City Builds Streetcar System on Same Route as Subway System -
(Atlanta, GA) $47.6 Million

The Pentagon recently spent $998,798 shipping two 19-cent washers from South Carolina to Texas and $293,451 sending an 89-cent washer from South Carolina to Florida.

Washington will spend $126 million in 2009 to enhance the Kennedy family legacy in Massachusetts. Additionally, Senator John Kerry (D-MA) diverted $20 million from the 2010 defense budget to subsidize a new Edward M. Kennedy Institute.

More than $13 billion in Iraq aid has been classified as wasted or stolen. Another $7.8 billion cannot be accounted for.

Museum Where Neon Signs Go to Die… - (Las Vegas, NV) $1.8
Million

Fraud related to Hurricane Katrina spending is estimated to top $2 billion. In addition, debit cards provided to hurricane victims were used to pay for Caribbean vacations, NFL tickets, Dom Perignon champagne, "Girls Gone Wild" videos, and at least one sex change operation

Auditors discovered that 900,000 of the 2.5 million recipients of emergency Katrina assistance provided false names, addresses, or Social Security numbers or submitted multiple applications

We (that's us) spent money on this stuff and thus drove our national debt so high that the dollar is now diminishing in value which is driving prices of commodities like oil into low earth orbit. Its got to stop but yet each party has their sacred cows which cannot be touched. This is maddening.

BTW, sacred cows make the best hamburger meat.

mudcat
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What are you nuts? Sonny Purdue did what?

No way he voted for all this stuff. Has nothing to do with Georgia anyhow. Where do you get this crap? And why? You a Commie like jeffc?

Cyclist
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mudcat - Sonny Purdue

I'm confused, what about Sonny? No, I'm not commie as I think carbonunit can attest to that. My source, well some come from the Heritage Foundation and Senator Tom Coburn MD. Is Jeffc really a commie ☭?

mudcat
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Funny cyclist

were you the cyclist biking on McIntosh Trail (the road) when there was a perfectly good bike path 2 feet away? Today I mean? At 4:45? Nice spandex butt. Bad judgement holding up Friday traffic.

Cyclist
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mudcat

Was that cyclist a young stud with a well sculptured and tanned body? If so..................it wasn't me. I think it might have been my buddy carbonunit.

carbonunit52
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It was not me

I don't wear spandex, and I will testify that cyclist is definitely not a commie.

Cyclist
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Hey carbon...

I got a spare set of spandex; you interested?

carbonunit52
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Cyclist,

I am interested, providing that they have a Hawaiian print.

normal
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you go cyclist

Good points. Like I always say anything the government touches turns into dog squeeze. Mr Trump may have said it correct today. The government is run by stupid people doing stupid things. That includes the white house. If we could sink washington and start over we would be better off.

Cyclist
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normal

Thanks and you are so right.

Trump is right but, on the other hand we (the people)keep sending some of the stupid ones back to Washington ever year. (eyes rolling)

Cyclist
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The Guv is out of control...

This is a cute little video that depicts federal spending from Franklin Delano Roosevelt to Barrack Hussein Obama. Notice how "we the people" are burdened after each administration.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ap1dr2-idQE

I'm sorry if I ruined any one's day.

MajorMike
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JeffC - facts are still relevant unless you're a liberal

Barack Obama is a serial liar. It is one thing for a politician to stretch, pad, embellish, massage or twist facts to suit the needs of the moment. While distasteful, we have come to accept this and learned to discount the story line knowing that facts were exaggerated.

The U.S. Dept. of Energy’s independent Energy Information Administration (EIA) collects and analyzes, “independent and impartial energy information to promote sound policymaking, efficient markets, and public understanding of energy and its interaction with the economy and the environment.”

http://www.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=pet&s=mcrfpus2&f=a

Obama has stated more than once that under his administration, the United States is producing more crude oil than at any other time in history.

The truth is that under Obama domestic oil production is almost half – 43% – of what was its peak.

Worth noting is that any current production, which is up slightly in the last five years, is due to drilling permits that were issued under the Bush administration.

Also, Obama and his cohorts are using the present budget deficit to pounce on oil subsidies that are in place for the very purpose of encouraging speculative and costly oil exploration.

Fact: Oil imports spike as Obama oil ban decreases domestic production
(Pump price could be immediately reduced by increased production)

As Conn Carroll points out at the SF Examiner, Barack Obama sent a letter to Congress earlier (this week) urging them to "eliminate unwarranted tax breaks for the oil and gas industry, and to use those dollars to invest in clean energy to reduce our dependence on foreign oil" ... yet leaving aside for a second the fact that even after 30 years of subsidies, clean energy accounts for just over 1% of all U.S. energy production. And regardless of how the administration tries to spin away the truth, facts show that if Obama really wanted to reduce our dependence on foreign oil tomorrow he could end his Gulf of Mexico permitorium on offshore drilling:

Obama must believe that he can lie his way into a second term.

JeffC
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I don't think that's right MajorMike

I can't find anything to back up your assertion that: "Obama has stated more than once that under his administration, the United States is producing more crude oil than at any other time in history."

If he said that, it would not be correct, but I can't find where he said it. What he did say at his March 11 press conference was:

"Let me be more specific. First, we need to continue to boost domestic production of oil and gas. Last year, American oil production reached its highest level since 2003. Let me repeat that. Our oil production reached its highest level in seven years. Oil production from federal waters in the Gulf of Mexico reached an all-time high. For the first time in more than a decade, imports accounted for less than half of what we consumed."

"So any notion that my administration has shut down oil production might make for a good political sound bite, but it doesn’t match up with reality. We are encouraging offshore exploration and production. We’re just doing it responsibly. I don’t think anybody has forgotten that we’re only a few months removed from the worst oil spill in our history. So what we’ve done is to put in place common-sense standards like proving that companies can actually contain an underwater spill. And oil companies are stepping up -- we’ve approved more than 35 new offshore drilling permits that meet these new safety and environmental standards."

News Conference by the President

All of which is true.

Petroleum & Other Liquids

NUK_1
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US Oil Production

Presently it is at its highest level since 2002 and that's per the EIA, with a 25% increase in production expected before the end of the decade. The peak production period was in the late 1960's and about 60% higher than presently. Obviously, that dramatic decline has little to do with Obama.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8698ae80-4503-11e0-80e7-00144feab49a.html#axzz...

Observerofu
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Max you are correct. Almost forgot

the Carter malaise and the "roaring" (sic) economy it produced.

Production hit all time lows while inflation bumped upward to 20%. Would you have ever guessed we might be saying soon "Those were days"?

JeffC
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Really OOU, Do you just make this stuff up?

Here's the average increase in GDP per year from BEA:

2.8% - Nixon/Ford
3.25% - Carter
3.4% - Reagan
2.9% - G. H. W. Bush
4.0% - Clinton
2.08% George W. Bush

Production hit all time lows?

maximus
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Not too bad of an average, jeff

But unfortunately for Jimmah, people were feeling the disastrous growth rate, inflation, and unemployment in his last year. Terrible stats! I guess that's why he was thrown out in an absolute landslide. And not a moment too soon.

Observerofu
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Correct on the numbers

Jeff but he road the Nixon/Ford boom. His last few years was dismal at best.

I mean I know you remember the "Misery Index" right.

Before President Carter took office in May of that year the inflation rate was 6.2% while unemployment stood at 7.40%.
Under Carter the Misery Index had reached an all-time high of 21.98% giving a whole new meaning to the word ‘malaise. Production dropped rapidly in the later years.

btw-Real GDP does not fully indicate Industrial production Jeff-Nice sideways curve-ball. It measures assets and a number of other factors not just production. When inflation under Carter hit the 20 percentile range people did not buy on credit and production for Domestic consumption dropped.

Spin it any way you want no one but you and few Liberals remember those years as anything but a failure.

kevink
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Observerofu. Three easy questions:

In 1979, which country, in your opinion, was the best country to live in and be a citizen of?

Today, which country is the best country in the world to live in and be a citizen of?

Who is your pick to help you get your country back in 2010?

I find it interesting how fatalistic and depressed *conservatives sound. The country is dismantled, destroyed, in shambles, led by Karl Marx, communists, etc. Good thing we have liberals who are still willing to admit that there's no place like home and no better place to live on the big blue marble. Cheer up. In the words of a famous dead guy, Why so serious? :-D

Spyglass
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Every 4 years or so, some clowns from both sides claim

they are going to "leave the Country" if so and so is elected....do ANY of them ever do it?

AtHomeGym
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Kevin & Kwestions

Yeah, I know, you didn't ask me but I'm gonna give you my answers anyway. One & two: Good ole USA, hands down! For Three, I'm still a Jon Huntsman, Jr. fan. Strong conservative with the finances to run a campaign; successful businessman; qualified Diplomat (Ambassador to Thina in a Dem Administration); speaks 2 dialects of Chinese; Squeaky clean; Yeah, he's a Mormon, so what--ever heard of a crooked Mormon? Maybe that's reason enough for him not to be a politician!