Finally the Proof. Hateful Rhetoric and signs videoed at "Supposed" grassroots rally

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Observerofu
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Oh you thought I was talking about the Teaparty. NOPE. Just your average typical LIBERAL rally.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBUt2T8bYvQ&feature=player_embedded

Signs calling Wisconsin's Governor Hitler, a Terrorist, Mubarak etc.. and of course the usual tripe of TAX, TAX, TAX THE RICH
chants.

Why all the hype? Wisconsin is only $3+Billion dollars in debt. The Voters in Wisconsin kicked out the Tax and Spend Democrats
in November and voted in a set of Politicians that PROMISED to cut the budget. The results? Public (taxpayer paid) employees
walking the streets in wildcat strikes, shutting schools down and the Democrats literally running from their responsibility going out of State
while they are in session to avoid having to vote.

Now here are the real interesting facts. Obama's own Political arm, Organizing for America is involved and helping to organize the strikes,as well as,
the DNC.

Who is causing the riots in Egypt? You guessed it. The Workers party, the Unions. Who is calling for Egypt styled riots here in America?
You guessed it. The Unions.

Well Andy Stern said: “We like to say: We use the power of persuasion first. If it doesn't work, we try the persuasion of power”

Observerofu
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***WARNING*** Link contains explicit language

But hopefully the moderator will understand. This needs to be exposed.

Remember all the rhetoric about the "Teaparty" signs so I wonder were is the "Situational Outrage" here?

WISC. PROTESTER SIGN: ‘IF TEABAGGERS ARE AS HOT AS THEIR FOX NEWS ANCHORS…’

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/wisc-protestor-sign-if-teabaggers-are-as...

Observerofu
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and another fine example of liberals in protest mode

Just another Union Thug assaulting a vicious teaparty supporter. This time this burly he-man from the Communications Workers of America (CWA) decided to slap around a young girl that happened to have a video camera on him.

Such fine upstanding examples of the Unions and Liberals.

I guess he took to heart the fine Democrat from Massachusetts Rep. Michael Capuano when he said...

"I’m proud to be with people who understand that it’s more than just sending an e-mail that gets you going,’’ Capuano said at the rally. “Every once in a while you need to get out on the streets and get a little bloody when necessary."

I guess his chastisement of those that use hateful rhetoric doesn't include himself. You know the old Don't do as I do...DO as I say do thingy.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/thats-assault-union-protester-whacks-you...

Observerofu
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and one more for the record. SEIU and a very racist comment

"SEIU Protester to Black Tea Partyer: Do You Have Any Children That You Claim?"

http://beetljooz.wordpress.com/2011/02/23/seiu-protester-to-black-tea-pa...

According to two prominent progressive's here Teaparty folks are the racist and radicals.

I guess it's all that evidence they constantly share with us.

SEIU Fight Song "Take the Bas^ards down"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2Ng153ORDo&feature=player_embedded

Classy.

Observerofu
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Union Thugs being Union Thugs.

‘FASCISTS GO HOME!’: TEA PARTIER INJURED IN ASSAULT BY ‘TEAMSTER’ AT SACRAMENTO PROTEST

Link to the Story and video

"The MoveOn.org “American Dream” rally in Sacramento produced one of the day’s more volatile moments. A man wearing a Teamsters Local 439 jacket launched major body-check action on a Tea Party member."

KXTV-TV:

"The opposing rallies were divided by 10th Street, west of the State Capitol. All was peaceful, until members supporting unions crossed the street.
An amateur videographer caught a shoving match on tape. The video showed a face to face argument right before Richard Andazola, 28, of Stockton, shoved a tea party activist.
“He bum rushed across the street, came right at us, swung his bullhorn at me, hit me in the hand and then put his hand around my throat and started choking me,” Rodney Stanhope of Placerville said.
The video doesn’t show the choking incident, but clearly shows the shoving. Because of it, Sacramento Police officers cited Andazola for battery."

But remember the Teaparty are the violent ones.

Observerofu
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Bacon throwing his weight around

Ok maybe it is and maybe it isn't but......

PRO-UNION PROTESTER USES HARD SHOVE ON OPPONENT IN ATLANTA

Is this Peachtree City's Bacon?

"ATLANTA — Union activists rallied Saturday at the Georgia Capitol as part of a national campaign to support workers in Wisconsin.
Organizers say they are afraid a push by the Wisconsin governor to curtail labor unions in that state will spread nationally.
Participants are also protesting budget cuts which they say have become “dangerous.”
Today’s rally was sponsored by the AFL-CIO and MOVEON.ORG."

Chris P. Bacon
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"maybe it is and maybe it isn't"

This is the second time you've posted the same link and accused me of being in it, spam boy.

Just like your jackbooted cretin Tea Party brethren, you're fast running out of original things to say and have started repeating yourselves.

Not that "originality" was a strong suit of yours to begin with...

carbonunit52
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Observerofu,

Talking to yourself is not bad, but a unilateral argument is another matter I believe.

I am much more fearful of what the right does than what the left does.

"Tea Party" has such a sissified sound to my fuzzy wuzzy ears.

Georgia Patriot
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Tea Party Attacks in Atlanta

Attacks as in TP attacked by union thugs! More of that tea party violence! http://www.theblaze.com/stories/pro-union-protester-uses-hard-shove-on-o... -GP

Chris P. Bacon
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Excellent video, Georgia Patriot!

What a fantastic video! Thanks for sharing!

It was great seeing that Tea Party Brownshirt thug get his comeuppance. These Teahadist punks must've thought they could get away with their usual garbage disrupting peaceful protests and blocking traffic.

Good to see a REAL American shove that punk aside. It's a great metaphor, when you think about it: Real Americans are beginning to push back against these scumbag Tea Party Brownshirts.

Georgia Patriot
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Crispy Goebbels

That's right twisted sister, keep squealing the LIES, up is down, black is white and wrong is right. Progressives like you are great at perverting and distorting the facts with LIES, but guess what, people get to watch these videos and see for themselves who is instigating the violence and it's not Grandma and the Tea Party. So keep it up, your master, the purveyor of all LIES would be proud! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Lie -GP

Chris P. Bacon
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Thank you, Georgia Patriot

Thank you for the personal attack. I can tell you left your church this Sunday morning just brimming with God's love.

Georgia Patriot
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Yet Another Progressive Tactic

You have a whole bag of those, don't you. You twist the facts, pervert the truth and when exposed, call the light darkness. You underestimate the american people, they can see right through your propaganda, all the way to the truth. -GP

Chris P. Bacon
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You seem very angry, Georgia Patriot

I'll pray for you.

grizz
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Union Commie Thugs

Wow - Those union folks are a bunch of commies who have to resort to violence when they meet an opposing view.

Observerofu
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Why is that Carb?

The left has all the Socialist, Communist, Capitalist hating types. The Right has what?

Chris P. Bacon
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Americans fighting back against jackbooted Teahadist thugs!

It's good to see Americans pushing back against jackbooted Teahadist thugs. The Teahadist thought this was still 2010, and that he could spit in a peaceful union protester's face without retaliation!

Newsflash: Actions have consequences! Americans are saying ENOUGH to the cryptofascist Brownshirts of the Tea Party.

I especially enjoyed the bewildered look on the Teatard Derper's face when the union supporter pushed him away! You can almost see the shock on the America hating tea partisan...."All I done was spit on him, why him violent?"

Thank you for sharing that video, gOOFUs!

Observerofu
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Time is coming bacon

slowly but surely like the tide, people like you their time is coming to an end. You will not bring Socialism to this Country. We will stop you. People like Trumka and Stern like to talk about the new World order and workers of the world unite but America is waking to your brand of Socialism.

You want a fight well bring it. I'm ready are you?

Chris P. Bacon
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Time is coming gOOFUs

slowly but surely like the tide, people like you their time is coming to an end. You will not bring Fascism to this Country. We will stop you. People like Beck and Palin like to talk about reclaiming America for old bitter white folks but America is waking to your brand of jackbooted neo-Nazism.

You want a fight well bring it. I'm ready are you?

Observerofu
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Nice parrot can you say wanna cracker

I am sure you can.

Count'em bacon each day as they go by because they are indeed numbered.

Chris P. Bacon
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"Cracker"?

Gee, calling me a "cracker" now? Adding "race baiting" to your thin resume?

You can make all the ominous vague threats you want against me (my days are "indeed numbered" *snicker*) but one thing that events of this past weekend showed was that you bellicose jackbooted Tea Party thugs can dish it out but you goons sure can't take it.

You frail, delicate flowers aren't nearly as tough when you're not carrying your guns and makin' anonymous threats!

Here's a great photo of a whiny Tea Party buffoon getting up in someone's face (LINK) and he is shocked....shocked, I tell you... when he gets his ass handed to him when he engages in the customary Tea Party mating dance ritual (i.e. spitting on his political opponent).

People are fed up with you and your jackbooted Tea Party thugbuddies. Americans are pushing back against your type, both figuratively and literally.

Observerofu
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We shall see bacon we shall see

but I bet like your prediction of a November win this too will show you just how far outside of mainstream America you people are.

Speaking of frail.. Did you meet Hutch?

Observerofu
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Oh btw Bacon can you provide us with one video of violence

or even one arrest of a Teaparty member at a rally or protest. Just one will do. How about one broken window, trashed grounds or maybe just one carbque?

Surely you have videos of the teahadist in action. I mean you equate teaparty folks to terrorist so obviously you're not making it up or you? I mean you have proof right?

You wouldn't make unsubstantiated charges now would you?

Care to give us just one piece of evidence bacon?

Observerofu
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Still waiting on that evidence bacon to back up your charges

Just one arrest.
Just one broken window.
Just one carbque.
Just one trashed National park.
During a Rally or Protest.

Come on bacon if you want to call the Teaparty terrorist and Nazis surely you have some proof of it besides just your opinion.

I have documented here over and over and over that Socialist and Unions are in bed together.

I have documented here over and over and over that the Union members are the ones throwing their "weight" around. (Still believe that was you btw)I mean hitting someone with their back turned is exactly the sort of thing you would do, but I digress.

Now if it's just your opinion then so be it. We all have'em just like our rear-ends, some are just more full of "it" then others.

Chris P. Bacon
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More than happy to do so, gOOFUs...

I'll be more than happy to honor your request....

....just as soon as you honor the request I made a few months back to provide a link detailing how the New York Times called people attending the anti-Glenn Beck rally to be quote "anti-honor" unquote.

Remember when you made that claim?

We're still waiting for you to provide that link.

Observerofu
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Yes bacon AND I will do it AGAIN

just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean it was not done.
This is my standard reply when you bring this up. So again you are lying when you said you are still waiting. I have replied to you this very same response no less than 5 times now. All the links are included. So once again you have proved that there is little "truth" in you.

"You claim anyone that disagrees with you is a liar and then a coward for not admitting it. Yet you offer nothing in the way of a counterpoint or counter argument. Oh when pressed you sometimes come up with a Huff piece or an opinion blog that somehow you assert backs up your point of view, but generally you just disagree and then fall back on the tried and true bacon standard fare of insults and misquotes.

Let’s examine what you call a lie I will even use your example.

Progressives and Liberals host “Anti-honor” Rally this Saturday.
Now that was the title of my topic. Nowhere in that title do I explicitly or even infer that this was in any way a headline from any newspaper.

The second line was “At least that is how the New York Times bills it.

Now you used this one line as your absolute evidence of a LIE by claiming I am STATING that the New York Times has written an article with the title of “Anti-honor” or “Anti-Beck”. This never occurred. It was an opinion based on editorials written by the Times and the commentary of Maddow and Oberman on MSNBC. This was later defined in later postings. I provided links to the stories themselves. Nowhere did I ever state I was quoting an article. So by misstating that fact intentionally is what the definition of a lie is.
Definition of a lie:
–noun
1.
a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; anintentional untruth; a falsehood.
2.
something intended or serving to convey a false impression;imposture: His flashy car was a lie that deceived no one.
3.
an inaccurate or false statement.
http://www.thecitizen.com/node/4172

Here is the link now look at post #22 through #32 the argument is clearly defined. You claimed I said the topic was from an article from the Times it was never said or even implied. Yet you still persist months later.

You have made this an art. You take statements from others not ideologically aligned with you and then falsely claim they said something else.
Then you go from topic to topic telling the lies trying to convince others of your superior intelligence and moral authority.

Bacon as I have said before you are a pseudo-intellectual. You really should look to JeffC as your example of someone who has intellect and character and would serve yourself best by emulating him. "

You see bacon I NEVER claimed it to be a NYT article. That was YOU. You are the one that claimed I said it and I never did. So the burden of proof is on YOU and you can't do it. That is why you never link to the actual topic, because if you did it would disprove the lie you spread.

Here let me assist you: From comments #22 of original topic

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/27/us/politics/27rally.html?_r=1&scp=3&sq...

Now what was you saying. It was never done? Oh yeah right. Intellectual dishonesty bacon suits you.

Now ready for mine!!!

Chris P. Bacon
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Still waiting, ObserverofU

Still waiting for you to provide a link backing up your claim that the New York Times called people attending the anti-Glenn Beck rally to be quote "anti-honor" unquote.

Alternatively, you could apologize to this board for making up that fictional quote.

The choice is yours.

Observerofu
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Bacon you are simply lying and there is no other explanation

but then again you can't do anything else. You have no rational arguments, no points just bluster and BS.

I said I never said it. Now why don't you prove I did. You can't can you because it never happened. So by continuing this facade only proves that you can not win in the arena of ideas only the mudpits of Progressivism.

Keep slinging mud bacon it might stick for awhile but not forever.

You have told this and other lies so many times now that I think you actually believe it.
I am going back to option #2 bacon. Roundabout has more intellectual integrity then you do.

Chris P. Bacon
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plenty of excuses and "explanations", Observerofu

You sure have plenty of excuses and "explanations", Observerofu.

What we're really looking for is for you to provide a link backing up your claim that the New York Times called people attending the anti-Glenn Beck rally to be quote "anti-honor" unquote.

Alternatively, you could apologize to this board for making up your fictional quote.

The choice is yours.

Observerofu
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Option #2 excercised

You just simply can't fix Stupid or argue with idiots.

Robert W. Morgan
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Gosh observor, try to be a better Nazi

If that nameless fool you insist on encouraging wants you to be a jack-booted Nazi thug, then be the best one you can be. Pick him up, shave his head and send him off to a resettlement camp. Since the old ones are all closed - Guantanamo might work, if you keep him away from the other inmates so they can't claim we are torturing them.

Its not as cruel as it sounds - more like taking out the trash. You know useless things that have outlived their purpose and things that no one else wants.

Yes I do know that the Nazis were a Socialist Democratic Party led by an Austrian (not born in Germany) who never had a real job (other than a corporal ambulance driver in WWI) and was a strong community organizer and a very eloquent speaker who came to power because he promised change (but not hope) at a time when Germany's economy was in big trouble. But the left today throws that Nazi label around so much might as well roll with that.

Observerofu
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I know RMW I know.

I promise that is the very last time I will ever engage bacon in a debate. I am done.
I have attempted to work with him but that is impossible.

SteveL told me I was wasting my time and now I really believe him. Bacon has no shame and no integrity.

No honor.

He would just as soon as lie about you then actually engage in honest conversation. If you can't argue your points cogently then insults and Innuendos work just as well for him.

Chris P. Bacon
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Violent Tea Party Thug Arrested
Observerofu wrote:

Just one arrest. DERP!

Ask and ye shall receive:

Violent Tea Party thug arrested at Democratic rally

Now tell us how that....that....that's DIFFERENT

We'll wait.

Observerofu
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You finally found one

Good for you. I bet all your union friends were scared of Grandpa.

Chris P. Bacon
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You betcha

Now then, since I complied with your request, how about honoring my request and give us a link showing where the New York Times called that rally against Glenn Beck an "anti-honor" rally?

carbonunit52
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Tea Partier arrested

It is obvious that some people just can't hold their tea.

I liked this comment about the incident:

Up next on FOX, face-wielding Democrat thugs assault Tea Party supporter's fists.

Observerofu
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Proving a negative with a negative

is still a negative.

Since you made the charge you prove it.

I can't prove I never said something I never said.

btw-Took long enough to finally find the one grandpa that is fed up and tired of being pushed around by your union thugs.

grizz
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Union Thugs

The liberal progressive union thug that got arrested looks like a nazi skinhead

Observerofu
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deleted by poster

*double post

Georgia Patriot
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More HATE and VIOLENCE from the Left

The attacks continue http://www.theblaze.com/stories/a-guy-just-hit-me-fox-news-reporter-atta... watch this video folks and judge for yourself. -GP

Chris P. Bacon
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HATE and VIOLENCE from the Left?

Hate and violence from the left?

Take a look at the NON-FOX viewpoint of the poor Fox reporter being "punched in the arm".

LINK

The reporter got jostled by someone trying to get their protest sign in camera view and the reporter immediately starts whining about being "punched".

watch THIS video folks and decide for yourself.

NUK_1
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Protests/Counter-Protests/Media

When tensions and emotions are really high and the news media insists on sticking some reporter in the midst of it, a punch to the arm is a lot better ending than being gang-raped like Lara Logan.

It's wonderful that in America you can have mass gatherings and people all worked up over whatever and generally everyone goes home that night alive, with no bruises, and ready to go out and do it all over again the next day. Someone getting spit on, punched in the arm(OH GOD SAVE ME!), or whatever is a lot better than tanks rolling over them or being bombed by their own air force.

I'm not condoning thugs of any political persuasion or how stupid and useless they are, but when you have thousands of people gathered all together with "conflicting agendas" and almost everyone goes home unscathed.......it's pretty impressive actually.

GAltant
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Union people

Wow Observerofu

It think those union people are
fascist, communist, socialist, liberal, scientologist, prebyterian, alien, tea party, democratic, republican, loyalist,oh..I forgot royalist...

should I keep listing silly labels...because thats what you sound like....its getting a little silly, not to mention boring..maybe if you stop Mr. Pork Belly Fat will stop too!

Observerofu
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GAltant that what they want

for us to sit down and shut up.

This should sound familiar to you:

In Germany they first came for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me —
and by that time no one was left to speak up.

Now why is it you want me to stop speaking up? If it's a duck calling it a duck is not acceptable?

birdman
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Uhh Observerofu

it seems to me that you are the one "coming." Everyone who seems to speak up to stop the government attack on workers rights in Wisconsin is attacked viciously by you. You want to keep the voices of others down. But you are right, by the time they come for you, no one will be around to speak up.

Observerofu
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Uhh Birdman

just who have I attacked?
Care to share a quote?

Chris P. Bacon
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Dear God, the irony...the unintentional irony....
Observerofu wrote:

for us to sit down and shut up.
This should sound familiar to you:
In Germany they first came for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me —
and by that time no one was left to speak up.

Now why is it you want me to stop speaking up? If it's a duck calling it a duck is not acceptable?

Governor Walker is "coming" for the trade unions...
and "good Germans" like you, Observerofu, are cheering him on at every opportunity.

grizz
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Do as I say, not as I do

Barack Obama: "I don't think it does anybody any good when public employees are denigrated or vilified or their rights are infringed upon."

".........the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home."

Barack Hussein Obama - the great hypocrite.

roundabout
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grizz

Now I fail to see what is wrong with either one of President Obama's statements!

One is an opinion and the other is a violation of the law.

Observerofu
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AFL-CIO Trumka's ties to Socialist Party

Just another Progressive Social Network.

Metro Atlanta
Democratic
Socialists of America
January 2010 Newsletter

http://www.dsa-atlanta.org/pdf_docs/Newsletter_Jan2010.pdf

"A major action involving the
National AFL-CIO officers is also in the works. A breakfast
meeting in September with 200 labor and community
activists and top AFL-CIO officers -- Richard Trumka, Arlene
Holt Baker and Liz Schuler -- linked the foreclosure crisis to
the overall economic crisis facing American workers and set
the stage for this follow-up action"

Trumka Speaks at The Party of European Socialists (PES) wants new Global Tax.

http://www.pes.org/en/news/financial-transaction-tax-ftt-simple-principl...

Chris P. Bacon
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Between 70,000 and 100,000 union supporters

Between 70,000 and 100,000 union supporters turned out in a snowstorm to march in support of Labor. Great Photo Essay of the marchers HERE

America is fed up with the thuggery of the so-called tea party, the most rancid cancer festering in American politics today. Americans are rising up and striking back against those tea party frauds.

Tea party organizers were unable to arrange an effective counter-protest: "It was snowing, and our members were unable to manuever their Hoverounds outside in inclement weather".

Observerofu
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I really liked the Unite Solidarity Pic

with the raised red fist. So reminiscent of the Communist party. Oh wait they are there too. Seems like Unions, Big Labor and Communist all walk the walk together.

Posters Edit:
I was wrong on the Raised red fist and attributing it to the Communist party.
It was the International Socialist Party.

http://internationalsocialist.org/what_we_stand_for.html

Gotta love them Socialist marching for Freedom in America.

grizz
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Union Parasites

The host of the parasites in the picture have had enough and we are speaking out. We are their employers. We pay their salaries, and we have had enough of their incoherent ramblings and thuggery.

They can stand in solidarity all they want. Their unsustainable pay and benefits will be reduced.

Robert W. Morgan
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WWRD? What would Reagan do? Wait, he already did it.

Remember the air traffic controllers? The old ones, I mean? No didn't think so. They struck illegally as public sector union employees and were replaced pretty quickly with minimal disruption.

Now here we have a Reaganesque governor in Wisconsin who has the same opportunity (or soon will if the union goons push it just a bit further) and I think he's prepared to replace the teachers. Certainly easier to train teachers than air traffic controllers and with 10% unemployment, I'll bet you could find 50 applicants for every $89,000 per year job. That's $10,000 per month since they only work 9 months each year with 2 or 3 vacation periods during the 9 months. Usually home by 3:30 unless they are coaching some sport. Wonder if they get extra $ for being a coach.

I'd begin with the cowardly Democrat legislators who ran away. They can certainly be replaced with a simple special election. What fun that would be.

AS OUR WONDERFUL PRESIDENT LIKES TO SAY - THIS IS A TEACHABLE MOMENT. EVERYONE CAN LEARN ABOUT PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, WORK ETHIC AND OBEYING THE RULES AND THE CONSEQUENCES IF YOU DON'T.

roundabout
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Morgan

Why do you only mention Reagan as a union buster with the Air Controllers?

Jimmy Carter was a much better union buster with his de-regulation of the airlines, railroads, and trucking deregulation!

All Americans could then fly, ride a train, or own a truck due to cost reductions!

Transportation, defense, national resources, safety, and food, along with financial companies must be regulated---however to regulate so that corporations can make a fortune and NOT serve all of the public (middle class even couldn't fly then, too expensive), is wrong.

Carter was not an idiot!

Chris P. Bacon
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Saint Reagan on unions

Here's a quick video of Saint Reagan talkin' 'bout unions LINK

It's also worth reminding dullards like RINO W. Morgan that there's a huge difference between firing illegal strikers and unilaterally attempting to decertify a legal union for the sole purpose of currying favor with jackbooted Tea Party fascists.

Not that that will stop the fringe right from spewing their "Union Thugs! Union Thugs!" spittle flecked oratory.

America is starting to push back against the neoNazi Tea Party...and it's about damned time.

birdman
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RW Morgan it's a little more complicated

If you study the PATCO strike it is a lot more complicated than Reagan simply replacing controllers. There was a lot of underlying issues never resolved that led to the strike. But Poli (PATCO's leader) did a horrible job of publicizing the issues. However it significantly helped the big airlines. Low cost startups like Muse Air, Peoples Express, and others went out of business because during the strike the FAA slotted the major airports. For example LGA may be given 100 slots. If an airline carried 10 % prior to the strike, they got 10 slots. Airlines like Peoples and Muse were given so few slots that they could not stay in business. I was in the military and we were limited to few missions based on actual need. So, minimal disruption? Not really.
As for this whole Wisconsin thing, why the heck to we care? We live in Georgia. Maybe we should worry more about our budget and less about Wisconsin. But one must wonder how eliminating collective bargaining saves money since the Union already agreed to the cuts. And one must wonder how using government to remove the right of workers to organize is SMALL Government? Isn't that BIG Government?

Robert W. Morgan
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Ok maybe a little more than minimal disruption, birdman,

but not an out and out disaster. Besides, if it is teachers we are talking about replacing with non-union workers, just send the kids home for the 6 weeks it takes to train the new teachers and then have the kids make up the time in the summer. Get back to the full 3-months off next year.

I don't really care about Wisconsin other than to see a precedent set that can be applied in Georgia. Does anyone think the $13,000 per pupil per year, unionized, top-heavy affirmative-action hired leadership of the Atlanta school system is the right way to go? That can be the first thing to tweak once the union is out of the way.

Chris P. Bacon
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Pay attention, RINO W. Morgan
RINO W. Morgan wrote:

I don't really care about Wisconsin other than to see a precedent set that can be applied in Georgia. Does anyone think the $13,000 per pupil per year, unionized, top-heavy affirmative-action hired leadership of the Atlanta school system is the right way to go? That can be the first thing to tweak once the union is out of the way.

Excuse me, RINO ole buddy, but if you'd been paying attention this week you'd have learn that collective bargaining for teachers in Georgia is prohibited.

Also, the per-pupil expenditure in APS is $12K per student, not $13K, which is still much higher than the Fayette expenditure of almost $8K per student. Consider the demographics though: Title 1 expenditures are much higher in Atlanta (largely due to income differential, a key indicator) and the age of Atlanta schools is considerably higher than the newer Fayette schools.

You are correct in one important aspect, however: the administration overhead in APS is much, much higher than the state average.

birdman
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RW, guess you're not a teacher

You know, in 1991 or so Eastern Airlines sent all their union pilots "home" and hired new non-union ones. How'd that work out? I am not a great fan of unions. In fact my Dad owned a company with a strong union and, well the stories are endless. However it isn't about the union, but about the RIGHT to collectively bargain. It would be nice if business was ethical and honest and treated their employees fairly, but, historically, that just isn't the case. That includes Government jobs. For example the PATCO strike. The issues actually were NOT money. The controllers were "burning out." But the FAA ran the Air Traffic Control system with an iron fist. Controllers were afraid to ask for leave or to seek any help when experiencing high levels of anxiety due to the stress of the job. If so, they would be fired. One of the contract issues was shorter shifts between breaks to prevent the stress that came with staring at a radar screen in a dark room while trying to keep two 747's from colliding. There were many stories about controllers setting up aircraft to collide due to inability to concentrate to the levels needed to do the work.
But as with all strikes the public perception was that the controllers were simply greedy moneygrabbers. That was Poli's fault. Consider this, the controllers opted to lose their jobs rather than continue under the work rules they had. That act alone should have keyed the public to issues other than money.
But I digress. Again Wisconsin's action is not about money, it's about union busting. It's even part of the Pledge to America which states "We will fight for the rights of workers and oppose “card check” proposals that put union bosses before an individual’s right to a secret ballot." Sounds good, but it is "union busting." Now that may or may not be good or bad, but to insert government by using laws to remove the right of collective bargaining is hardly in keeping with "small government."
As for cutting student costs, etc., yeah...I agree that the unions have made that difficult. But if you fire all the teachers and hire non-union teachers, who will you get? Will exceptional people work under no contract, no protection, no guarantee of anything, and for a the low pay that teachers earn? I doubt it. Our educational system is messed up enough.
But this is not only about teachers, it affects firefighter unions, police unions, garbage collection, all city, county, and state services. Good idea? Maybe, maybe not. Guess we'll see.

Robert W. Morgan
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Yes you did digress and no, I am not a teacher

I digressed as well by tying this to air traffic controllers, but I'm done with that.
The teachers can certainly be replaced by plenty of available workers who have basic English and reading skills. An 4-year education degree is not needed, unless of course the teacher's union has pressured state government into making that a requirement. But as a practical matter, one can learn to teach a specific class 4 times a day - say history as an example - by reading a few books and getting some specific training on an existing lesson plan over a 6-week session. Even easier for an out of work engineer to adapt to a math or science class. Computer science? Literally thousands of unemployed people qualified to teach this.

It was the $89,000 compensation package that got my attention on this. For years we have heard how underpaid and unappreciated teachers are. But $89k for 9 months of fairly easy work?

Now these newly hired teachers could belong to the union or not - their choice, but I really think they need to be contributing their own money to a retirement account. Health care? If they get it for free, I'll bet you could find new teachers at half that $89k.

birdman
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RW..yeah..I have that problem

Sorry...I start typing and my fingers just seem to do their own thing.
I agree with your post (mostly). But I know a lot of Fayette teachers. They don't make anywhere near $89,000. There average salary is about $48,000. The family median is around $79,000. So you won't get rich teaching. But I will agree that $89k is quite high. And I agree wholeheartedly that they should be able (at that pay level) to participate in benefit costs, just like most of us do. In fact all gov. employees should do the same. They should reflect the average citizen. My only argument is that this can all be negotiated. In fact the Wisconsin union already agreed to these concessions. So it could be a done deal if the gov. would give up on the union busting. I guess the question is does elimination of the union really save money? Does the elimination of the union protect or violate the Constitutional rights of the employee? Does the elimination of the union violate the Railway Labor Act? Does the elimination of the union fall within the theory of limited government or does it violate the rights of the citizen?
As for the Air Traffic Controller strike, I found the whole premise interesting and in 1984 I wrote a thesis on it. That is the only reason I have any knowledge of it. It is pretty interesting from an historical perspective though.

Davids mom
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Just asking

Fayette County teachers are members of what union?

wildcat
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DM

Georgia is a "right to work" state. There are no unions. MACE is about as close as one can get. Check out their website sometime!

Davids mom
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Wildcat

Thanks

ImFedUp
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DM - FYI

Most are members of PAGE .. Professional Association of Georgia Educators

AtHomeGym
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Teachers & PAGE

I suspect many are PAGE mbrs simply for the reason that PAGE will provide legal counsel if you are sued--I know that's the only reason my wife joined when she taught.

Chris P. Bacon
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Hey Cal Beverly, feature story idea here!

Reading Rino W. Morgan's screed above, it occurs to me that an awful lot of people here in Fayette county are of the opinion that "anyone can teach".

This might make for a very interesting point/counterpoint feature story in the Citizen. Perhaps you could engage a Fayette teacher to explain what is required of them in this day and age to teach school kids. One very articulate teacher I've heard at BOE meetings would be Joseph Jarrell (sp?) of McIntosh High.

And then if you wanted to get all "fair and balanced", you could get someone like Morgan to tell us all how easy it is to teach and how no special skills are required (save basic reading comprehension).

roundabout
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TEACHERS

I would have to agree that Individuals make good teachers, not necessarily a college degree. The same is true in Industry, and certainly in politics.
However, "maturity" is most important.

I recall that my grade school teachers were all High School graduates.
Keep in mind however that the eighth grade was about as far as most got!
5% went to some kind of business school or college.

Such people did help build the USA.

Maybe my ignorant teachers is the cause of my intelligence?

Most of our problems stem from poor teaching and heritage in 1-7 grades.
If those are taught and learned well, the rest is easy.
No one should leave third grade until they are ready for 4-12. Must read well, write well, know basic math, speak well, and be given additional help until they do. It would take some 2-3 years to do so.

At the high school level those who are just getting by should start preparing for craft schools.

Management is more important than students or teachers.

I once asked a Doctor of Philosophy, who worked in hiring, why most Industries required a degree---from anywhere!
He said 50% of those who have them succeed at some level; only 40% of those who don't succeed---a matter of odds!

Davids mom
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roundabout
Quote:

Most of our problems stem from poor teaching and heritage in 1-7 grades.
If those are taught and learned well, the rest is easy.
No one should leave third grade until they are ready for 4-12. Must read well, write well, know basic math, speak well, and be given additional help until they do. It would take some 2-3 years to do so

TRUE!! Unfortunately, with budget cuts, etc. - most urban districts don't offer remedial help until 3rd grade unless they qualify for federal funds. Our country has been cutting the educational offerings for Pre-K - 12 for years. . .and then wonder why we are lagging behind other industrial countries in academic achievement. Sigh.

dolphn528
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anyone?

Chris,
I do believe than anyone can educate themselves if they make the time and effort. I home school my oldest son. I do have a college degree though. However, I did not learn anything from my degree that helped me to educate my son. I learned through teaching books that I bought or checked out of the library. There are specific building blocks in teaching children that can be vast but create pathways to very specific skills.

I think that a good teacher though requires more than a degree.

Davids mom
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Degrees
Quote:

I think that a good teacher though requires more than a degree

Very true. I've seen Ph.D's utterly fail in front of a classroom. (students) Teaching is part gift; part education; part desire/dedication.

GAltant
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ObserverofU

Speak up all you want.....but the labelling is getting old.

I get it when it comes to Chris Bacon, but his labelling is getting old too.

Its getting old in Congress, its getting old with The White House...its time for solutions.

Have at it!

Observerofu
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GAltant it's not "labeling"

These guys many I have documented here are in fact Socialist. They support Socialism and are members of The Socialist Party. So calling them Socialist is like calling you Jewish or me Black. We are and so are they.

The Hippies, Socialist, Anarchist and the Globalist are out in Wisconsin and now they're in your neck of the woods Atlanta.

It's their time they believe to bring about their "New World Order".

Bacon is irrelevant to the conversation. He thinks he makes a difference by disagreeing with anyone not of his ideology and his egging on of the violence the Union is perpetrating. He should be very careful there are truly wicked groups both American and not that want to bring this Country down. Some like Stern, Trumka and Piven want to bring it down to be re-built into their version of what America should be others, however, want to destroy everything America is and what it stands for.

One group is self serving and all for Social Justice the other has a different agenda all together.

Chaos will reign if this keeps up. The World is burning and the Whitehouse has a party.

The public sentiment which was actually for the Teachers/Union when this began has now turned around after seeing the drug fueled rave inside the Statehouse.

The Average Joe American does not support Socialism and as the Unions join forces with the Socialist more violence will occur.

Trumka Speaks at The Party of European Socialists (PES) wants new Global Tax.

http://www.pes.org/en/news/financial-transaction-tax-ftt-simple-principl...

Metro Atlanta
Democratic
Socialists of America
January 2010 Newsletter

http://www.dsa-atlanta.org/pdf_docs/Newsletter_Jan2010.pdf

"A major action involving the National AFL-CIO officers is also in the works. A breakfast meeting in September with 200 labor and community activists and top AFL-CIO officers — Richard Trumka, Arlene Holt Baker and Liz Schuler — linked the foreclosure crisis to the overall economic crisis facing American workers and set the stage for this follow-up action."

Chris P. Bacon
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Hippies? HIPPIES?
Observerofu wrote:

These guys many I have documented here are in fact Socialist. They support Socialism and are members of The Socialist Party. So calling them Socialist is like calling you Jewish or me Black. We are and so are they.

The Hippies, Socialist, Anarchist and the Globalist are out in Wisconsin and now they're in your neck of the woods Atlanta.

Galtant obviously hit a nerve with you.

You can play the "You're a Nazi/socialist/fascist/communist/etc" card all you like.

It just makes you look ignorant.

p.s. "Hippies"? *points and laughs at gOOFUs*

Observerofu
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Yes Hippies bacon. I posted the link dummy

obviously you can't recognize drug fueled raves from Union members. Don't worry I can't either.

Here I will do it again for the intellectually lazy.

Drum circle at the Wisconsin Capitol. 2-20-2011

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0BvRBChtmU

Don't worry bacon I won't laugh at you. Ignorance is just plain sad.

Chris P. Bacon
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Funny thing about that..

All those jackbooted Tea Party thugs roaming around with their cell phone cameras and videocameras and they couldn't get a single picture of anyone drinking alcohol and/or smoking a joint.

We're supposed to take it on faith that your Tardbrother "smelled" alcohol and pot.

Of course, gullible jackwagons such as yourself easily swallow and regurgitate such propaganda....

Observerofu
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Well now bacon didn't you just say you were laughing at me

for saying there were Hippies present. Seems like I just proved you wrong AGAIN.

Now it's smoking pot?? Did I say anything about pot? I believe I said drug fueled rave. Did I mention any specifics? In fact my original post never mentioned drugs now did I?

I guess if you can't prove your point just make one up huh bacon?

Bacon-All fat no meat.

btw- here are your buddies.

Wisconsin Capitol protesters disrespect the Veterans Memorial

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHWZIG199rs&feature=player_embedded

Chris P. Bacon
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Laughing at gOOFUs
Observerofu wrote:

for saying there were Hippies present. Seems like I just proved you wrong AGAIN.

Now it's smoking pot?? Did I say anything about pot? I believe I said drug fueled rave. Did I mention any specifics? In fact my original post never mentioned drugs now did I?

I guess if you can't prove your point just make one up huh bacon?

Here you go, jackwagon.

Observerofu wrote:

International Anarchists & Socialists Have a Substance Fueled Rave While Taking Over WI Capital
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9IdUJ4gLZw&feature=player_embedded

I know you have a hard time keeping up with the garbage you spew.

Fast forward to 0:21 to see the pot/alcohol whining.

This "rave" business seems to really upset you.

Observerofu
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Uhh bacon that was THEIR comment

I simply C&Ped it. But I guess in your World it is good enough.

So bacon if you post something like an article or news story are you saying you are responsible for every word in it? Oh please say yes.

btw- Were you wrong about the Hippie thing or not?

Chris P. Bacon
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Dat ole "plausible deniability" stuff again!

Once again, you fail to take responsibility for garbage you link us to.

"oh NOE!" you squeal,"I NEVER said that! I just posted a link to it!"

Observerofu
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So you are not going to answer bacon?

OK I understand if I was a lying weasel I guess I would run from erroneous statements that I make too.

Joe Kawfi
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Observer

Why do you even bother to confabulate with that miscreant? You might as well just bang your head against a concrete wall.

Observerofu
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Sort of like picking at a scab Joe

You know you shouldn't do it but somehow you just can't help it.

Observerofu
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Union Rally "American Dream" egad had Socialist involved

I know shocking right?

Van Jones (self-avowed Communist and 9-11 Truther)held a rally for Unions this past weekend. Union leaders and members attended the Rally in DC. The really interesting part of this was the fact that the ISO held the permit for the Rally.

According the the Park Police the permit was issued to the International Socialist Organization.

Van Jones info:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/van-jones/american-dream-movement_b_826477...

ISO Info:

"The International Socialist Organization (ISO) is committed to building an organization that participates in the struggles for justice and liberation today--and, ultimately, for a future socialist society."

http://internationalsocialist.org/what_we_stand_for.html

Note the Mission Statement of the ISO

By now it should not come as a shock, well except for, bacon that Unions like the Democrats have been co-opted by the Socialist. Now I know the term Socialist has become like the boogyman it's used to scare everyone. But if you were to show that the boogyman was real would it hold the same eye rolling esteem it now holds? Of course not, here I have tried to chronicle
the role of the Socialist organizations involved with Unions.
Now let me categorically state here and now that I do not believe all Union MEMBERS are Socialist. I believe most love America and want America to prosper under the Founders dream.

Now that being said, they are being played by their Union Leaders who are in bed with radical elements in and outside of America who want America to "change" and not for the better.

albion
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The double sufferer

Endless citations, videos, links and pointers to a perceived socialist takeover reminds me of an interesting article by Richard Hofstadter, published in Harper's Magazine circa 1964. http://www.harpers.org/archive/1964/11/0014706

In the history of American politics, little has changed in the paranoid style.

Observerofu
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*

*

Observerofu
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Perceived?

Links to websites and meeting wherein Union leaders speaking and/or for Socialist is perceived? What would it take to convince you?

Davids mom
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albion

Thank you for sharing.

Quote:

In the Goldwater campaigns of 1952 and 1958 and in all other campaigns where I have served as consultant I have followed the advice of Mao Tse-tung.” “I would suggest,” writes senator Goldwater in Why Not Victory? “that we analyze and copy the strategy of the enemy; theirs has worked and ours has not.

We need to be aware of all forms of paranoia. Scary. If only we could really adhere to our principles; TELL THE TRUTH/RESPECT OTHERS. Both 'sides' in this recent election (we're still in election mode) are involved in 'game playing' rather than dealing with the truth. IMHO

Observerofu
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YOU WILL DIE!!!! Email sent to Wis Senators

"Please put your things in order because you will be killed and your familes
will also be killed due to your actions in the last 8 weeks. Please explain
to them that this is because if we get rid of you and your families then it
will save the rights of 300,000 people and also be able to close the deficit
that you have created. I hope you have a good time in hell. Read below for
more information on possible scenarios in which you will die."

More peaceful Progressives

carbonunit52
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Observerofu

I wonders who wrote that email. It has the style of the "nonnamous letters" that Tom Sawyer wrote in "Huckleberry Finn". Methinks the author overdid the undereducated, uses-his-whole-sleeve-to-wipe-his-nose, Republican-hating character a wee bit. I'm just sayin'.