Obama advisor mistakes Military Officer for a waiter.

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Observerofu
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Valerie Jarrett to uniformed general: More wine, garçon!

"Jarrett was seated at the head table along with several other big-name politicians and a handful of high-ranking military officials. As an officer sporting several stars walked past Jarrett, she signaled for his attention and said, “I’d like another glass of wine.”

Garçon!

White House economic adviser Austan Goolsbee, who was seated next to Jarret, began “cracking up nervously,” our tipster said, but no one pointed out to Jarrett that the man sporting a chestful of medals was not her waiter.

“The guy dutifully went up and got her a glass of wine, and then came back and gave it to her and took a seat at the table,”

http://dailycaller.com/2011/02/01/valerie-jarrett-to-uniformed-general-m...

Chris P. Bacon
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4 Star General, 5 Star Grace

Here's the General's take on what happened: LINK

"It was an honest mistake that ANYONE could have made. She was sitting, I was standing and walking behind her and all she saw were the two stripes on my pants which were almost identical to the waiters' pants -- REALLY. She apologized and will come to the house for dinner if a date can be worked out in March."

Observerofu will be along shortly to denigrate the General, seeing how he despises the military.

Observerofu
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Actually I expected no less from the Military

unlike most progressives I don't loath them.

roundabout
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OOU

What if it had been Hillary?

justacitizen
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???

???

The Wedge
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What an interesting turn of events

I feel like I wander through the blogs of alternate reality. I see the Crispy Bacon of Sniffles fame doing two things over the past several weeks. One, professing a knowledge of God and when he is mocked, and the other an unbridled love of the military. This person, whom I have read over the period of years, has always tacked sharply left and occupies the ground that usually professes atheism and a hatred of the military "industrial complex". To both speak for God and to denigrate a conservative law enforcement guy as a hater of the military is an interesting tactic. Is it genuine or merely another form of bovine excrement? The world wonders.

NUK_1
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Wedge: I don't know, but this I do.....

You can love and respect the men and women in uniform that sacrifice everything for this country whether or not you agree with whatever war they are sent off to. You can love the soldiers and hate the fact that they may be risking their lives when you think otherwise, but that doesn't diminish your support for them.

You can love and worship God, even while despising some fundies and what they are trying to politically achieve or maintain.

You can totally disagree with the President of the USA-whoever that might be at the time- but you can also respect the fact(at least I and most others do...some here, NO)that he IS the elected President of this country and is doing "something" that a very tiny group of people on this planet will ever do and face challenges that would make most adults go home and cry to their Mommy or eat a bullet.

It's a great country :)

Ninja Guy
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NU-KY1, about that military thing

I have always wondered how one logically arrives at 'You can love and respect the men and women in uniform that sacrifice everything for this country whether or not you agree with whatever war they are sent off to. You can love the soldiers and hate the fact that they may be risking their lives when you think otherwise, but that doesn't diminish your support for them.'

I don't mean to instigate a pro-military/anti-military thread there, but only wish to understand the logic of supporting the soldiers but not the war, especially in times of an all volunteer force.

Without people signing up for whatever Uncle Sam sends them off to do, it seems that there would be no wars to dislike.

Just curious,

Go Navy! (the football team)

justacitizen
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Ninja Guy

Some soldiers go into the service because they do not know where to go. Some have gone in to the service because of Sept 11 and their need to defend their country. Some go in for the opportunity for education and to better themselves. Some just go because they love this country. Once they join and start there training they soon learn why they are there. To defend the Constitution of the United States of America with their LIFE. During their training they are offered on many occasions to withdraw if they do not believe what they stand for. The military does not want those who do not understand why they are there and what they stand for. They are there to serve their country unconditionally with their life's . I will not and can never look down at a solider just because the leaders of this country make a decision to fight something that I may not agree with. Our soldiers serve without question. They give up their rights to preserve mine, my families and yours. God Bless them!! That is why some say "I do not support the war but I support the soldiers" A solider follows orders not public opinion. Thank God

Go ARMY beat NAVY LOL

NUK_1
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justacitizen/Ninja: Military service

Good answer by justacitizen and I completely agree.

Ninja, I am glad I missed your post yesterday because that's not an easy and simple question to answer:) Thinking........MAKES HULK'S HEAD HURT!

Spyglass
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Well said, Justacitizen..

Well said.

Ninja Guy
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Military Service vs. Gang Membership

When I face a problem of logic/philosophy, I like to do a word substitution to see if the logic still holds true. Below I have used your post under the rules of fair-use with some substitutions. Now, I am by no means equating the US military with a street gang--simply exploring the logic behind someone joining a group that might engage in, and has been known to engage in in the past, acts that some members of society view as morally questionable.

Copy and paste of 2/15/11 post from justacitizen with gang/gang member substituted for military/soldier and some other substitutions.

"Some gang members go into gangs because they do not know where to go. Some have gone in to street gangs because of Sept 11 and their need to defend their turf. Some go in for the opportunity for education and to better themselves. Some just go because they love this turf. Once they join and start there training they soon learn why they are there. To defend the gang charter with their LIFE. During their training they are offered on many occasions to withdraw if they do not believe what they stand for. The gangs do not want those who do not understand why they are there and what they stand for. They are there to serve their street gang unconditionally with their life's . I will not and can never look down at a street gang member just because the leaders of this gang make a decision to fight something that I may not agree with. Our gang members serve without question. They give up their rights to preserve mine, my families and yours. God Bless them!! That is why some say "I do not support the gang but I support the gang members" A gang member follows orders not public opinion. Thank God"

Go (insert favorite gang name) beat (insert hated gang name)

PS to NUK_1
Even after all these years, I can't take Eddie's Father seriously as the Hulk (well, not technically the Hulk, but Bruce Banner).

hutch866
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Ninja Guy

The fact that you can make such a stupid argument in English rather then Japanese or German is proof that your logic is false. Do you imagine a street gang would protect you for any reason? Which part of the military do you morally question, the dying for the country, or the endless months of separation from their families, maybe the below standard pay is what you object to. When I was in people halfway up the pay scale had to use food stamps to feed their kids. Fortunately for you, the military protects all of us, even the ones, (like you) who look down on and feel morally superior to them, for whatever reason.

BTW justacitizen, Army hasn't beaten Navy in many years, so the LOL if justified.

The Wedge
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Hutch...

But there is hope. A real hope. A hope for the future of Army football. GO ARMY, BEAT NAVY :)

justacitizen
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Ninja Guy

With your kind of logic one can not even have an honest discussion, so I won't even try. Thanks to all who have served to defend "The Constitution of the United States Of America" so that Ninja Guy can freely post his opinions here. God bless you!

Ninja Guy
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Justacitizen, Sorry to

push your logic envelope, but that is my small contribution to keeping Editor Cal stocked with free content so he doesn't have to pay real reporters. We all have our roles, right?

Okay, say that you are a member of an Iraqi family holding a big wedding and the US military gets some faulty intelligence that your wedding is a Taliban meeting. They blow you and your family up with a couple of missiles (didn't this actually happen?). Now, from the US military's point of view, you are collateral damage in the name of defending the US Constitution. But, from your point of view, you are the victim of an egregious act of violence that has wiped out your family and its generations to come.

Now, if one adheres to the 'it must suck to be you' philosophy', then you can go about your day. However, if you take human rights seriously, and not just American human rights, then you have to ponder the morality if such actions.

So, back to my gang membership word substitution. If you knowingly join a group that has been known to cause unwarranted destruction of human life, as in the Iraqi wedding scenario, and might engage in similar actions in the future, what is your moral responsibility for joining the group.

I used street gangs as a substitute for the military, because some people join street gangs for the same reasons you gave for people joining the military.

As for feeling morally superior, no I don't. I have belonged to organizations in the past that I think have caused a lot of social destruction and general misery, so I do not see myself as above anyone from a moral perspective.

Go Navy!

justacitizen
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Ninja Guy

My country is not perfect. I love it none the less. 2,752 of my citizens and those from other countries died on Sept 11 do to passengers who could have passed as someone attending a wedding in Iraq. We do not make the rules all the time but we do have to live by them. God bless America land that I love.

Ninja Guy
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Yes, We Certainly

paid those rascals back didn't we? We should start rounding up all those funny looking/speaking 7-11 workers while we are at it. They could be putting stuff in our Slurpies that make it so we don't want to fight!

Go Dawgs!

The Wedge
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And Nuk...

I was not questioning his love or hatred for the military, only why he would attribute hatred to OOU. It seemed to be a topsy turvy debate tactic. Nothing more...
And where do I disparage the sitting president? Please share with me where that is. I certainly ascribe to a political point of view that is counter, but I still swore to support the constitution and I do not believe that there is a statue of limitations on that oath.

NUK_1
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Wedge

I certainly didn't mean to imply in any way that you were disparaging the Prez or anything else. I was just pointing out that it's not that unusual to have conflicting feelings and that it isn't hypocritical at all to "hate the policies/politics/etc. but still hold respect." I certainly find myself in total disagreement with Obama most of the time(though I think he handled the Egyptian situation well), but I respect the man for being the President/Commander-in-Chief and being duly elected by the voters of this nation.

As far as CPB goes.......who knows? He certainly knows how to get a reaction :)

justacitizen
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Hey NUK

Since I was a kid clowns scare me. I do like the dog in the back. Can you change the pic. LOL If not its cool. I do enjoy your opinions though. Thanks in advance. I hope

Chris P. Bacon
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Gosh, Wedge

Gosh Wedge, you seem absolutely conflicted here that a progressive ole Democrat like me can be a churchgoer AND support our military! It's a common brainlock for you conservatives, who have somehow convinced yourselves that conservatism and Christianity are exclusively intertwined. One of the saddest comments I've ever read here was a well-meaning blogger who asked me "how can you be a Democrat? You're a veteran!" As the noted philosopher Gomer Pyle once remarked: "Surprise! Surprise! Surprise!"...

Also, I'd like to point out a slight error in your above post, you referred to Observerofu (aka "NotLindsey") as a "conservative law enforcement guy". You'll recall that it was Lindsey, not NotLindsey, who claimed to have the law enforcement background (unless, of course, NotLindsey was bearing false witness against God when he claimed otherwise, which we both know cannot possibly be true, because just like Lindsey, NotLindsey is incapable of telling a falsehood, and the New York Times backs up his claim). NotLindsey is the super-successful businessman.

In any event, thank you for the snide commentary, though I'd remind you once again that hatin' on me won't make you any more successful, your wife any prettier or your children any smarter.

The Wedge
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In all honesty Bacon

I have tried to understand where you came from the comment that "God is not mocked". Note that I have not been banned from this site, nor have I had to change my moniker here. I have asked and gotten no answer so I was left with a sincere choice. To take your answer as from someone who believes in God and is sincere in their statement or as someone who is mocking a "non-existent" God by using the terminology that you used. Since you spoke in such hateful terms, I was left with the easy assumption that you were doing nothing but mocking yourself. You did not answer my question on intent, now did you?
Onto the silly comment about Lindsey/etc hating the military. Once again I viewed that as farcical. I have never seen that blogger disparage the military nor the police.
In any case we are responsible for our own conduct and there are certain ways to live ones life. No where in the Bible does it dictate the type of government or policy that should be conducted. It is based upon free will and personal conduct. Now, perhaps I should not have assumed and for that I apologize. I still view you as reprehensible for your whole Alan Keyes commentary that incensed many on this blog, including some of your compariots like David's Mom.

AtHomeGym
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Wedge & Keyes

I think you mean Herman Cain.

The Wedge
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AHG.. yep

I am mistaken-- it was Herman Cain. He was the object of Bacon's villification and hatred

Chris P. Bacon
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No problem, Wedge
The Wedge wrote:

I am mistaken-- it was Herman Cain. He was the object of Bacon's villification and hatred

They all look alike, amirite? ;)

Main Stream
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Wedge and atheism

Your comment stating that Bacon "usually professes atheism" is unfounded, however, if he ever did decide to join our ranks, we would accept him with open arms. Why do you religious people (christians) ostracize each other Wedge? You would think that y'all could find more to agree on, than not. This must be one of the reasons why the percentage of "unbelievers" is growing in our country. Keep up the good work, for us, Wedge!

The Wedge
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Main Stream.

Aren't you just special? You are confident in your beliefs and I am confident in mine. The difference between us is that I will not troll and mock on various blogs without provocation. A mere column about anything religious will bring out your vitriol. I don't see many converts for you there either main stream. The funny thing about all of this is that you are probably a great person and we may have even talked and exchanged pleasantries. On here though, the talons are sharp and compassion is far away.

AtHomeGym
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MainScream & Support

If I got lots of responses to my posts that were severely opposed to my view, I might begin to wonder if maybe I could be off a tad in my view. That clearly doesn't register with you--and that's fine, you are certainly entitled to whatever view you wish to possess and present. But I think the fact is, you are a narrow-minded ideologue wwho will most likely be forever
entrapped in the embrace of the liberal mindset. Good luck to you.

Chris P. Bacon
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You betcha
AtHomeGyno wrote:

If I got lots of responses to my posts that were severely opposed to my view, I might begin to wonder if maybe I could be off a tad in my view.

That's the mindset that folks like Observerofu and Kawfi ultimately hope to instill here. They try to drown out the opposition by flooding this board with falsehoods and logical fallacies, hopin' and prayin' that they can drown out opposing viewpoints.

Observerofu
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If you say it's a tree

and EVERYONE else says it's a rock. Are you still correct?

Chris P. Bacon
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Good question, NotLindsey!
Observerofu wrote:

If you say it's a tree and EVERYONE else says it's a rock. Are you still correct?

In logic, an argumentum ad populum (Latin: "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes a proposition to be true because many or all people believe it; it alleges: "If many believe so, it is so."
- Wikipedia

Keep them fallacious arguments coming!

Main Stream
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Argumentum ad populum

In logic, an argumentum ad populum (Latin: "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes a proposition to be true because many or all people believe it; it alleges: "If many believe so, it is so."
- Wikipedia

I believe this is the same "argumentum ad populum" scenario that Bush used regarding those illusive WMD's.

roundabout
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Elusive WMDs

I think it has been determined by now that those making the decision to attack Iraq knew that Iraq had little or no capabilities presently or soon would have none.
They found the CYA in the false intelligence reports just in case someone asked later why they attacked Iraq.

Those bug spray trucks that Powell showed at the United Nations, surely could not have fooled our satellite intelligence or those at the CIA or FBI. F-15s could have found at least a few if they existed.
The numbers were small and so were the trucks. It was the kind of thing we would bomb first if we thought they were trying to be serious about WMDs!

General Powell's expertise did not lie in his ability to use military intelligence (oxymoron) or plan large battle strategies. He was a people person and always agreed with his superiors, at least in public. That is how he got as far as he did.

We needed something better than OIL and Kuwait and Storm 1 to attack, and WMDs---slam dunk, was it! Public wouldn't buy just that OIL stuff!

George was also ticked at Saddam for testing the No-Fly zone.

normal
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Maybe they moved them to syria

Ever think of that. Plus I dont care if they were wrong. It was a good hanging and he deserved it for killing 10s of thousand of his own people. End of that story.

NUK_1
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Iraq WMD's

As far as I am concerned, Saddam's two psychotic blood-thirsty sons were weapons of mass destruction and getting rid of those two was a lot more beneficial to mankind than toppling Saddam even. Stalin and Stalin Jr. got crossed-out and that's probably the best part of the whole invasion.

Mike King
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Roundabout

Just how close were you to Gen Powell? By your statement, you were obviously fairly close. Are you on his Christmas Card list?

"General Powell's expertise did not lie in his ability to use military intelligence (oxymoron) or plan large battle strategies. He was a people person and always agreed with his superiors, at least in public. That is how he got as far as he did." I believe this is the result of idle banter from a military wanabe.

Or have you taken a lesson from Haddix in your own version of what is factual?

AtHomeGym
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Mike King & Gen (ret) Powell

Mike, it's interesting to read Gen (ret) Shelton's book "Without Hesitation" (a cy in the PTC Library), listen to Donald Rumsfeld and read excerpts from his new book about all the major players in the Iraq decison (and others). Rumsfeld lays much on the plate of The Natl Sec Advisor (Rice). I have reserved the new Rumsfeld book at the Library and am anxious to read his perspective of the whole story. Hugh Shelton (yes, I can call him that--I went to High School with him) certainly has no good words for Rumsfeld. I guess it all winds up being "who do you believe?" I know who I DON'T believe and that's any wannabe who has a keyboard.

Mike King
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Gym

Agreed, there were simply too many 'players' involved for the truth to come out now. Having served with Powell through the years I will attest that he is no 'people person' as the wanabe asserts.

Without getting into a lengthy explanation, my take is that Bush kept Rumsfeld on three years too long much to the detriment of the military.

Chris P. Bacon
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Excellent timing, roundabout!

Just today, the Crawford Coward's favorite WMD source, "Curveball" admitted to the UK Guardian that he totally fabricated stories about WMDs and especially those mythical mobile WMD labs in Iraq. "Curveball", of course, was used as the primary source of WMD information by the CIA and the basis for Colin Powell's career-ending speech.

Curveball said he was willing to say or do anything to get the USA to topple Hussein, even if it cost thousands of troops' lives. Mission Accomplished.
LINK

justacitizen
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Thank you Mr Bacon

For confirming that President George W. Bush was not a liar just mis-informed. This clears up much.

Chris P. Bacon
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Silly justacitizen!

You act as if being a liar and being misinformed are mutually exclusive! I've got one word for you: Observerofu!

President Wartime Deserter had already decided to invade Iraq to punish those Saudi Arabian extremists who crashed planes into American buildings on 9/11. Since he required Congressional approval to do so, he had his minions scour the Earth for a plausible reason.

Mr. Curveball simply gave him the "facts" to start his splendid little adventure.

Observerofu
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Coming from a man who produces no facts

for his arguments just disagreements.

Saying it's so still don't make it so.

Joe Kawfi
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Wrong, Observerofu

Bacon's not a man. He's a scawed wittle wiberal

Observerofu
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Oh he is a man Joe just not one whom I would call principled

his targets of vilification the Ill, the Mentally challenged, Christians et al come from a deeper source of insecurity and lack of self esteem.

This is why he attacks so harshly those that simply disagree with his brand of Social Justice and Wealth redistribution.

He has no real arguments based in anything like facts. This is why he uses blog Opinion based websites as his "sources" of facts and they justify his feeling of superiority without ever addressing the real issues at hand.

I truly find him funny. I sort of equate him with Roundabout. Bacon is just a opinionated yet mostly harmless old curmudgeon who wins few if any arguments with his rants and obvious mean spirited discourse.

Those that have as of yet formed an opinion are not won over by calls of God's wrath being called upon those with different ideologies nor calling ones daughters "crack-whores" while hoping they get assaulted outside of crack houses.

Bacon is an anomaly even amongst Liberals. He represents the worst in the party. However I for one hopes he continues to post here for a very long time indeed.

I use him as an example of the worst of the worst in political discourse. I always get a chuckle from those to whom I share his post with.

Joe Kawfi
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Observer

"If liberals were merely stupid, the laws of probability would dictate that at least some of their decisions would serve America's interests"

Joseph McCarthy

Georgia Patriot
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McCarthy was Right!!

All of the current types McCarthy was trying to expose have been emboldened and are out in the open now. http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=4020 Keep talking Marxist/Socialists/Communists, America needs to hear it all to make a clear choice. -GP

The Wedge
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I am curious

As to the official position of the left as to what happened to them. We know and it is not credibly disputed that the Iraqi army and airforce used mustard gas, sarin, VX, and tabun (and possible hydrogen cyanide) on its Kurdish population in the area of Halabja, Iraq. It killed between 5 and 7 thousand and many more died later from complications. It was at the close of the Iran-Iraq war in 1988. The Iraqi high court recognized the act as genocide in 2010. I am going to make the leap of faith and assume that you believe that these WMDs were used by the Iraqi's then. So I will ask you, what happened to their chemical stores? Did they get shipped off, stolen, safe guarded, or is the first use just a hoax?

AtHomeGym
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Wedge & Iraqi WMDs

Doesn't take a genius to recognize that Iraq had them--those Kurds surely didn't die from natural causes or self-inflicted wounds. But we do have some self-defined genius types who refuse to recognize reality and historical events.

roundabout
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GYM and Wedge, MIKE K>

The gassing done on the Kurds was a five hour affair as far as quantity and delivery systems.
Mostly dropped from a few jets and doors of helicopters.

It was an attack of genocide in a crowded area.
He also knew if he dropped even one out of Arab land that the world would wipe him out instantly. Poison is outlawed.

No long range delivery available.

We have enough of that stuff to kill the world ourself and we can deliver it. I worked for a company who made gas (not my division) for years by the zillions.

I suppose there will be those who will look for those supposed weapons of mass destruction forever! They also killed a few Iranians with gas, I think---but had the same problems of delivery and supply.

Give it up. It was a terrible mistake.

I met General Powell when he was at Fort McPherson when they created the command just for him for four stars! I didn't know him as his assistant---NO!
There were several hundreds of emergency trailers at the Fort in Morrow at the time that all had flat, rotted tires--sunk into mud and in disrepair.
Finally junked.
He saw none of that---didn't want to, wasn't his original doing!

Somewhat like the Arlington cemetery fiasco of transient Generals.

This is not a criticism of you Mike. I know nothing about your career except rank and helicopters, and Haddix battles.

AtHomeGym
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Powell, Command & Liars

I'm gonna violate my own policy and tell all of you that Roundabout is a liar. There was no command created for Powell--it was a 4-star command when I first arrived in 1977 and Gen Kroesen was the Commanding General, followed by Gen Robert Shoemaker. Facts are facts and BS is BS. And whatever trailers that were at Ft Gillem (yes, that is the name of "the Fort in Morrow") belonged to FEMA, NOT Forces Command.

The Wedge
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GYM, I know

Roundnoggin follows the adage of "if you cannot dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with BS", just know that brilliance is far away from him. Note that none of the troika will answer this question about what happened to them or even if Bacon was sincere in his beliefs. Lots of bluster, but no giving answers, just more of the same.

NUK_1
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AHG: Why bother?

Ignoring the total crap from roundabout/couthouserules/bonkers/dollarandday/whatever is better than acknowledging his presence whatsoever. If there was an "ignore" feature here, things would be a lot less cluttered instead of having to wade through the daily 15 posts or so of an obviously disturbed individual.

AtHomeGym
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Nuk & Replys to Round-whoever

Note that I said I was violating my own policy--and I agree with your assessment, however, that statement about Powell and creating a command for him was just too flagrant to ignore, especially as I have personal knowledge in that matter and thought it a good idea to let those with no exposure or experience to know the truth. Just another example of someone mouthing off about something they know little or nothing about. That comment gets a "Pants On Fire" rating!

roundabout
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GYM: Powell

The First Army at Fort Gillem had emergency response under their direction including FEMA----First Army reported to Forces Command!

General Powell was promoted to four stars so he could be nominated to Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Of Staff. They had to find somewhere for him to work a little while as a four star---he was appointed to McPherson Forces Command and that same year a few months later to Chairman!

The General there was moved to make room.

There is nothing illegal to my knowledge about this but it indicates that what I said originally was true!
Powell never spent over 2-3 years at any rank after flag rank, or much before. He was 49 when he was Bush 1's ND Adviser!

I can't say why all this actually happened, but I have my political reasons!

The point was that he never really had an opportunity to complete anything in the hero status, or for detail corrections as a commander due to getting promoted all of the time. In other words, another G.W. Bush!

The Wedge
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Roundhump
roundabout wrote:

The point was that he never really had an opportunity to complete anything in the hero status, or for detail corrections as a commander due to getting promoted all of the time. In other words, another G.W. Bush!

This is an interesting comment. If experiences are disparaged and dismissed such as this, how would you characterize the career of our current commander-in-chief, President Barack Obama?

roundabout
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Characterize careers

Obama:
A minority scholar who followed education to become a professor of constitutional law at Harvard. Father-African, Mother- White American scholar. Born in Hawaii, Grade school- Indonesia, high school Hawaii.
A non-military career. Columbia University and Harvard education.
Lawyer in a firm.
A community organizer in Chicago's poor neighborhoods, eventually elected to U.S. Senate.
A best-selling author. Outstanding public speaker for "change."

Nominated by the democrats to run for President of the United States.
Won easily the Presidential election of 2008.

Inherited a full-blown recession from previous administrations and began his "changes." Recession stopped short of a Depression, progress toward ending two wars and avoiding others, as usual--lost the house of representatives at the two year election.

Now fighting with the House about who will be the first to cut Social Security, Medicare, Defense and other assistance programs including school lunches, teacher assistants, welfare, foreign aid, etc.

Republicans want him to cut Social Security, etc.--he wants them to propose it!
They won't but say it is his responsibility! Battle for votes!

He is such an omnipresent leader--being everywhere every day--and unshakable in his pursuit of "change," that he will be re-elected due to poor competition.
That last part is a shame!

justacitizen
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round

How do I get a free lunch I am also hungry.(my mom always made mine but she has sense passed) You can keep my social security payments from the last 35 years if you just let me opt out of the program. When I went to school there were no teacher assistants and the kids were the crossing guards. We did not have a full time police officer at school(the vice principal was the law and we feared him or her). I did not have to sell wrapping paper to my neighbors and parents co-workers, and the test scores were better. Government is NOT the answer the citizens are. Bottom line costs can be cut if we all are willing to do our part.

roundabout
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Citizen

Then let the republican house present a bill to cut school lunches, assistants, welfare, etc. or the new TEAS!

What part will you play in kids not having lunch or breakfast and little supper at home? ("willing to do our part")

moelarrycurly
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roundabout record???

Am I seeing this correctly? Are there really 10 posts less than an hour and 15 minutes here? Can someone pull the plug on this dope or unwind him? Enough already.

roundabout
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MOE

just 2-3 from you are more worthless!

justacitizen
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double post

.

Chris P. Bacon
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My dear curious Wedge

I'm not sure the left has an "official position" on anything, but let me opine here.

Hussein absolutely used chemical weapons on the Kurds back in 1988. Between that time and the Crawford Coward's military adventure beginning in 2003 there was a little thing called the "Gulf War".

As I recall, Hussein was forced to decommission his WMD stocks in return for being allowed to keep attack helicopters to keep his population in line.

In any event, we've been in Iraq for over seven long years now, and suffered I believe thousands, perhaps tens of thousands, of IEDs and roadside bombs...with nary a single WMD munition to be found.

Knowing the kleptomaniac nature of the Iraqi people after the government initially fell, you'd have thought that ONE WMD shell could have been snuck away to be used on the American "infidels".

...but they haven't.

Now, there's always an outside chance that these munitions could have been spirited off to Jordan, or transported to the planet Mars, but after seven long years the cynic in me thinks that, as of 2003, there were no WMDs.

I believe their existence was a hoax and a fraud, perpetrated and enunciated by one George W. Bush, who desperately wanted to be a pew pew pew Wartime President to improve his re-election chances.

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About them WMD's

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
--Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
--Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
-- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
-- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

http://www.davidstuff.com/political/wmdquotes.htm

Now what were you saying bacon?

lion
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WMD Nonsense

None of the quotes cited by O stated the need for an invasion and occupation of Iraq.

To the extent some of their vague comments left open the option of an invasion and occupation of Iraq then they were fools afraid to challenge the Bush/Cheney lies.

There were on WMDs. The war has been a tragic waste of American and Iraqi lives.

Chris P. Bacon
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WMD Derp
Observerofu wrote:

DERP DERP DERP DERP Now what were you saying bacon?

More cut-n-paste.

Nobody doubted that Saddam Hussein WANTED to build a WMD program, just like nobody doubts that you WANT your children to be smart. Nevertheless, as the noted philosopher Mick Jagger once opined: "You can't always get what you want!"

Especially interesting is the last Hillary quote. She based her opinion on the "scrubbed" version of the CIA intelligence estimate that President Cheney saw fit to release to Congress. With the benefit of hindsight, we now know that BushCheney et al were more than a little less than forthcoming about the truthiness of their data.

Do YOU think Iraq still has WMDs somewhere? If not, where did they go...or did they ever exist?

Observerofu
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Doesn't matter what I think however your own politicians

sure thought so.
I just thought I would point out your beliefs that Bush lied. But years before Bush there was Clinton and Kerry and Dodd and others all saying the same thing. I guess Bush sneaked in and doctored the documents that they used too right bacon?

Observerofu
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Wedge the really curious factoid is the Democrat amnesia

of the years leading up to the Twin Towers and their calls for "Ending Saddam's Regime" and using the Military to attack tents and Aspirin factory's in the vain attempt to curb that regime's efforts on WMD's.

Then the further Amnesia followed their calls for BLOOD after the Towers fell
and now all of a sudden they and their acolytes say "What?? Saddam deserved to stay in power he was such as nice feller".

Talk about re-writing history.

The Wedge
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OOU, And I especially like

that there is no mention of the most likely course of action-Syria. No matter. I am actually in favor of removing our troops from every engagement and almost every foreign base. And then follow a policy of inflicting extreme damage remotely should anyone attack us.

Observerofu
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Works for me as well

*

NUK_1
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Wedge: That should be the plan

While a few are howling that America doesn't need a new round of "isolationism," it appears in the US that there is quite a sentiment to stop being overly involved all over the globe and focusing instead on national defense at home and at the borders, not abroad, and not trying to use the military to do what Bush once called "empire building" before he got elected. It doesn't work now and it's questionable how well in worked in the past for that matter.

The Wedge
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Nuk, the issue

With my thoughts would be that we do not have the intestinal fortitude to protect ourselves. An easy example, Iran smuggles in a 20KT tactical nuke and vaporizes a medium size city in the US. Let's say that we know for certain it was them. We do not have the fortitude to take out one of their cities in retaliation. Arms length diplomacy and warfare must be brutal and short to be effective as a deterrent.

NUK_1
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Wedge

Yes it should. When they say the "full force of the American military," they need to mean it and not be afraid to unleash it. It doesn't take many examples to get everyone's attention that about reprisals. That might mean "collateral damage" sometimes, but so be it. Mess with the rhino and get the horn.

Observerofu
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Can't do it Wedge and Nuk

One civilian will get killed then the hankie wringing will begin by the left.

Arnold Schwarzenegger said it best in Red Heat when Belushi said they have a drug problem in New York.

Schwarzenegger: In Russia we have solution for drug dealers...We line them up then shoot them.

Belushi: Ahh that wouldn't work here too many lawyers.

Schwarzenegger: We shoot them first.

Observerofu
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Reality bites doesn't it?

Pyschosis:
"A severe mental disorder, with or without organic damage, characterized by derangement of personality and loss of contact with reality and causing deterioration of normal social functioning".

If everyone says it's a rock then according to bacons logic it has to be a tree. Works in his world I reckon.

Chris P. Bacon
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Keep 'em coming!
Observerofu wrote:

DERP DERP DERP
If everyone says it's a rock then according to bacons logic it has to be a tree. Works in his world I reckon. DERP DERP DERP

Like I said, keep them logical fallacies coming! "If everyone says it, it must be true!" Classic fallacy.

Davids mom
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You betcha!

If it has roots, branches , etc. Took a two week Caribbean cruise - and as the commercial says, escaped! Had to smile at Cyclist's comment about the meals in China. . . We found a MacDonalds in Beijing when we were in China. Yup - this Christian Democrat is back. :-)

Cyclist
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Here in China...

street vendors are displaying an interesting tee shirt. They have taken Mao's picture in his little uniform but replaced his smiling face with Obama's. I sure hope Oprah is OK with that.

PTC Observer
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Cyclist - Where

in China are you? If you go to Shanghai make certain you go to the old market, you won't regret it. You will experience all the sights, sounds, and smells of china. You will rub shoulders with the people there.

Let us know what cities you will visit. Have fun!

AtHomeGym
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PTC-O & Cyclist's Whereabouts

He's in Hong Kong.

roundabout
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AHG

Might they keep him?

Cyclist
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No roundabout....

Paris calls. I have another facility to audit and I also have get a picture of that guy running around the Eiffel Tower in an adult diaper and a red cape. Proof that someone else is bonkers.

AtHomeGym
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PTC-O & Chinese Experience

I did all those things you mention in Taipei in Jan 72. I wandered the streets/alleys, and ventured into restaurants (just followed the crowd) and ordered food off trolleys (by pointing) without any idea of what it was. It was a neat experience.

Cyclist
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Gym

I'm soooo tried of Asian food that I'll even settle for some of that pork meat stuff you call bbq. ;-) I wish they had a “Hard Eight BBQ' place out here!!! I can't wait to get back home!!!!

AtHomeGym
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CY & "meat stuff"

When you get home, you'll have a new BBQ joint in PTC to visit and get some Brisket from a Texas BBQ Chain Franchise. Now we know those folks in Texas DO know how to smoke some brisket--we'll just have to see if any of that knowledge transfers here with the Franchise. Careful in Gay Paree!

The Wedge
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RE: Gym and BBQ

I went to Dickey's for lunch today. It was very good and tasted like a solid Texas BBQ joint. It is even set up like the typical Texas haunt. I had the brisket and a bite of the pulled pork, stew, and onions and all were tasty. check it out

AtHomeGym
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Wedge & BBQ

Thanks for that report--I'm sure CY will be encouraged! I did experience that real Texas deal when I was stationed in Ft Wolters! Personally, I just got 5 lbs of authentic Eastern NC BBQ (yes, all pork) delivered and will be just fine for awhile. However, I do like Brisket too and may stop by Dickey's for a sample. If you want to see how Pork BBQ is done right, visit OakwoodBBQ.com.
Cy,if you read this check your realmail, I sent you some Dickey's coupons.

And be reeel careful in Gay Paree!

roundabout
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More BBQ---My lord!

Now Texas (real stuff) BBQ!

Would it be possible to send all you BBQ writers a five-gallon jug of Texas BBQ to eat? Then would you talk about something important here?

Have you tried "Hamburger Helper?"

Is it the diabetes sugar in it or the 2000 calories per serving or the sneeze causing peppers or the ears, snouts, lips, jowels, feet, lights, livers, hearts, brains, eyes, and chitterlings ground up and injected into it that you like?

Let us really discuss junk food if you want to talk about it?

Where are the cold beer guys?

Cyclist
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Hey PTC Observer

Gym is correct, I'm in Hong Kong. Sorry; can't do Shanghai but we do go to Beijing just not on this trip.

AtHomeGym
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Cy & R-E-S-P-E-C-T

Can't you transfer a little to them while you're there? Oprah will love you long time!

Main Stream
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Wedge, it looks like...

...I got under your skin, again. Happy Valentine's Day *kiss*