Investing/Spending.... What is the definition of "IS" and what is the definition of "Investing".

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Observerofu
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You don't like a certain word change it.

Focus groups cringe when they hear the word "SPEND" now so instead we now have "INVEST".

Obama wants to "Invest" a lot. A Whole lot. The SOTU address last night sounded like November never happened. A little less confrontational.
A little less vitriolic. A little less blaming someone else but essentially nothing changed except the definition of a word.
We are going to spend..errr...uhhh...Invest in our future. Yeah right.

FACT CHECK: Obama and his imbalanced ledger:
AP News
"WASHINGTON – The ledger did not appear to be adding up Tuesday night when President Barack Obama urged more spending on one hand and a spending freeze on the other.
Obama spoke ambitiously of putting money into roads, research, education, efficient cars, high-speed rail and other initiatives in his State of the Union speech. He pointed to the transportation and construction projects of the last two years and proposed "we redouble these efforts." He coupled this with a call to "freeze annual domestic spending for the next five years."
But Obama offered far more examples of where he would spend than where he would cut, and some of the areas he identified for savings are not certain to yield much if anything.
For example, he said he wants to eliminate "billions in taxpayer dollars we currently give to oil companies." Yet he made a similar proposal last year that went nowhere. He sought $36.5 billion in tax increases on oil and gas companies over the next decade, but Congress largely ignored the request, even though Democrats were then in charge of both houses of Congress."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_state_of_union_fact_check

Observerofu
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CBO Baseline Shows Staggering Debt

"CBO Baseline Shows Staggering Debt
January 26, 2011 7:08 P.M.
By Brian Riedl
The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) today released a ten-year budget baseline showing $7 trillion in deficits over the next decade. Yet because Congress requires the CBO to include all sorts of unrealistic assumptions (that all tax cuts will expire, that the AMT will never again be patched, that discretionary spending will barely move for a decade), some adjustments must be made.

This more realistic “current-policy” budget baseline reveals a ten-year deficit of $13 trillion. The annual budget deficit never falls below $1 trillion, and reaches $1.9 trillion by 2021. At that point, the $25 trillion debt would exceed the size of the entire economy – and even that assumes a return to peace and prosperity."

Let's all continue to INVEST and eventually our Grandkids can collect on those "investments".

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/258115/cbo-baseline-shows-staggerin...

roundabout
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OOY

Oh, someday it will be necessary to devalue, declare bankrupcy and start over with confederate money, but until then let us just go on.

What is a peso worth now? Or Haitian money?

Observerofu
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No CHR we cannot "Just go on"

The Country is bankrupt. We just haven't filed the paperwork yet? Our debt is staggering.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Our liability per taxpayer is over a Million dollars now. Do you have yours to pay? No, me either.

We have to stop spending NOW. We cannot continue or "Just go on" as you say.

roundabout
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Observer of u

"Stop spending."

On what?

How about you telling us how much less we need to spend this year, and then tell me where those cuts have to be?

Please keep in mind that "mandates" by law can not be cut.

Now if you can get a new bill through to cut mandates (which one) then we might could save some next year! (The bill won't pass, however).

There isn't much left after mandates are excluded, we have even gotten most of the stimulus money back now.

I guess if you laid off all of the people not in mandated departments that might come up with 2%.

Foreign aid is less than 1%, so are earmarks less than 1%. Not much help.

Even if we cut people in mandates: Medicare, military, social security, etc., we would have another 15% looking for work, on top of the 10% now!

Let me know what you would do specifically that would amount to a hill of beans?

Isn't the answer to collect taxes from corporations (who will pass that on to us in goods costs) and a lot more from those who are investing their huge salaries and other income into stocks and bonds and yachts?

We could devalue our dollar and tell China and we US note holders that 20% is all you will get on what we owe you! World Depression quickly.

Going to take several years to do all that and also reincarnate manufacturing here.

Looks as if we need several years anyway to get rid of all of the home and commercial foreclosures and bad banks.

There is NO ANSWER that can occur tomorrow! I wouldn't want to be President of this mess.

Now you are not going to tell me to cut some stupid simple something you don't like are you? Yeah, I know: food stamps (won't even pay for the four stars uniforms!)

Observerofu
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Round and Round we go where it's going to stop I don't know

But I do know it's going to stop. Our economy that is.

What needs to be cut?

1. Social Security-It has to phased out. If you are getting it now then it continues. If you are within 15 years of retirement an option for a combined payout and pay-down of Benefits. 20+ years out option to opt out with a complete phase out in 25 years.

2. Defense-Finish the Wars get it done and let's get out within the next 2 years. Close bases not strategic to our defense. Move troops from overseas to border patrol. Phase out older low tech equipment.

3. Entitlements- Welfare has to be removed. Again a phased down approach.

4. Government reduction in Force-RIF-NEA, Dept of Energy, in fact start with the A's and don't stop.
http://www.usa.gov/Agencies/Federal/All_Agencies/index.shtml

These are just to start. If we do not then we will end up like Greece very soon.

Chris P. Bacon
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"What needs to be cut"

Sooo, you want to balance the budget primarily on the backs of the elderly and the infirm.

Social Darwinism at it's finest.

Not gonna happen.

Observerofu
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Bacon sorry for the unclear remarks

I thought I was clear, but I apologize for any incongruity. Let me be clear. All current programs stay in place to be phased out over 10-15 years. If you are already on SSI you stay on

However if you are 10-15 years out to retirement a phased pay-down of benefits in the form of Tax credits and/or reduction of pay-outs until all benefits you have paid in has been paid out.

If you are not yet enrolled no SSI period.

All retirement accounts will have to be tax free-not just deferred.

Thus no one is hurt. Win-Win for everyone and it can be done.

roundabout
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Observer of U

Thank you for the little you know about running the USA, but it is impossible.

Social Security---Must, if done away with, be replaced! All the world has that! It is all that 80% of the population has to balance their books when retired! Don't tell me "stock market?" Jumping out windows again--old people!

Defense--Lobbyists have that locked at about where it is forever---assuming we don't get into the current middle east riots.

Entitlements--includes veterans hospitals, benefits, crippled people, people unable to work, orphans, pensions, etc. Go ahead and quit paying welfare any time you want riots here.

Government reduction in force---I asked you before what are you going to do with those millions you put out of work? Who will do your paperwork--anyway this is a small portion of the budget.

I told you what must be done.

Observerofu
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Yes roundabout I saw your answer

and honestly dismissed it.

Let me see if I got it.

1. Raise taxes via VAT

2. Can't cut spending so why try.

That pretty much sums it up.

roundabout
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Observer

Well just like the rest of the conserves you want it cut deeply but refuse to say what exactly to cut in case someone would blame you at election time!

Government simply isn't taking in enough money now due to recent tax cut that was desperately needed. We haven't even paid for the wars yet!

Something else you want but don't want to pay for it. You are no different than liberals.

Observerofu
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Roundabout I think I was pretty specific

I listed four areas we need to cut. How is that refusing to say what it is that needs to be cut?

Government is spending too much. If the Government was more business friendly
then we would have the tax revenues to burn, but since we regulate and tax our businesses right out of business we have lost a major source of revenue.

AtHomeGym
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OOFU & " Closing Bases Not Strategic To Our Defense'

Not exactly sure what you mean by that but I would suggest you not discount how much our bases mean to the civilian populus. I believe it gives our citizenry a certain sense of comfort & security just to see the everyday presence of our troops in uniform. There is already a plan afoot by the SECDEF to reduce Army & Marine strength nrs. Base Realignment & Closures are just not all they're trumped up to be as far as cost savings. There are always huge costs in relocating and new construction that are often ignored when justifying the decision to close & relocate. And none of that takes into consideration the disruption to military & civilian families (aside from normal periodic Changes Of Station).

Observerofu
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AHG understood but there can be no more "untouchables".

We need to examine where we are receiving the best bang (pardon the pun) for our buck.

We can longer afford to keep open bases just for the welfare of certain Governments.

Now this is only one area I suggested. We also need to modernize our military. This will actually cost money to begin with, but the future savings would be worth the cost.

AtHomeGym
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OOFU & "Untouchables"

Agree with no more untouchables but I'm sure you also realize that every time we shift missions & forces, it also has a drastic, sometimes devasting economic impact on one area and a corresponding improvement in another--all most likely driven by political "juice" exercised by the decision makers or congressional delegations of one state or another--just the way it is and I don't see that changing, do you? If you DO see it changing, pray tell who do you think has both the clout & cojones to make it happen?

Observerofu
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AHG agreed no one has the "clout" to do it

and that is the issue. However events may well overtake us and make it a moot point.

Georgia Patriot
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Deeper Problem

Yes we need to stop spending but we also need to change what is bypassing the constitution, destroying our economy, and creating the dependent jobless class. The deliberate destruction of capitalism and free enterprise is IMHO an even larger problem. We will never be able to compete in a world economy with the system that is being imposed on us, no country could with the rules we have that come from IRS/EPA/OSHA/CZARS/Executive orders, Etc. We should be an energy independent country with a thriving economy. Maybe the american people will wake up and realize what is happening, in the meanwhile I will be praying to the God they do not believe in. -GP

Ninja Guy
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GP How Did You

get an Internet connection in that underground bunker of yours? Beware, civilization is lurking just outside the entrance to your cave!

Georgia Patriot
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So Ninja

exactly how do we take part in this "new world economy" that the president keeps talking about? What exactly do we manufacture/produce to sell here? Last time I checked our import/export ratio with China was not looking so hot. -GP

Ninja Guy
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Yeah, I don't know about

all that stuff. Didn't really understand it back when I understood it. Got an iPhone today, though. The freehand at work!

Davids mom
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GP

How about our manufacturers using American workers again? (You're right - we are no longer the country that Henry Ford and others of his generation made the U.S. the number one industrial nation in the world. We have the military power - and a lifestyle that the rest of world wants to emulate- but we, as well as other countries are on an unsustainable economic course. We KNOW that - what we need to do is correct it without destroying ourselves.

Georgia Patriot
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Unsustainable Economic Course?

I do not have an answer for you, I can only tell you that the path we are on will not work and it seems as though washington still doesn't get it. We can not compete on mass produced items with the cost of Chinese labor. We can compete on quality and must do so. So-called green technology will not solve our problems either, the technology is just not there yet. We must inovate and government must loose the chains, otherwise we will all be working on the government plantation for food in a few years. And yes, if you believe, pray for God's guidance for our leaders and God's world. -GP

PTC Observer
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We're broke

folks this is a very serious situation. We're broke, it's just the government that doesn't realize it.

http://247wallst.com/2011/01/28/moodys-opinion-on-evolution-of-us-aaa-ra...

Davids mom
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An Opinion (Moody) - respected yes - but still. .

The key idea here, IMO, was are Americans willing to accept an austerity program to get us out of this mess? Will our leaders listen to experts and take into consideration where to spend (for future competitiveness) and where to cut? (to lower the deficit) The move towards this important step at this time trumps all ‘ideologies’. So often current leaders are afraid to ask the current citizens to take the difficult steps as citizens did during past crisis. We now know for sure that the spend, spend, spend philosophy did not help our economy. Hopefully the economists will make the decisions that take into account ‘jobs’ lost when cuts are made – and areas for private sector and government to spend to produce jobs. The business community is now being heard – and regulations are being looked at. De-regulation has/had many faults and should be corrected. IMO, this can be done without stifling growth. The future of our country depends on our leaders working together for the COUNTRY - and not the next election.

PTC Observer
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DM - LOL

"The future of our country depends on our leaders working together for the COUNTRY - and not the next election."

Well that's not going to happen anytime soon.

Besides, we're already broke......key concept here.....it's too late.

Observerofu
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PTO I think you are correct

It may well be too late. Egypt is going up in flames. The Government is being dissolved even as we speak. Once the Brotherhood takes over the Middle East will be at it's most destabilized it has ever been.

Greece, France, UK, Italy all falling like dominoes. The Middle East will soon be in flames.

The tipping point for us will be when the price of oil hits $140. When it does we will see those Greece riots right here.

PTC Observer
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Observerofu - right

It's all about food prices, in the rest of the world this is a big, big issue. As prices spike expect more countries like Egypt to go up in flames. People hit the streets when they can't feed their families.

In China food prices are going up daily, we will see India and Asia Minor up next.

People here don't have a clue......they need to go out there and see for themselves.

We are financially broke so there is no backstop to crisis. There will be no Marshall Plan or help from us like it.

We have spineless leadership, a disinterested and dependent citizenry. We’re toast, it's just a matter of time now. There will be no white knight to save us.

Observerofu
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Sad but true

I can only prepare for the worst and help my family get ready. I hope 5 to 10 years from now I can look back on all this and laugh about how silly I was.
Sadly I feel like I won't get that chance.

We are going to see a major spike in food prices very soon. There will be people that will not be able to feed their family or themselves. When that happens the havenots will attack the haves or as it really is the unprepared will attack the prepared.

Class warfare has been so instilled in our population that there is a class of citizens that now expects that the Government will just take it from others and give it to them.

When the proverbial feces hits the osculating blower they will simply stand around with their hand out waiting for the Government to feed them. When they don't get fed then they will riot and chaos will reign.

Davids mom
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Observerofu/PTC

Sorry to see you have given up. When are you going to Canada?

Observerofu
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Flippant non-response response

Come on DM it's not about moving to Canada. btw-they are just as screwed up as we are.

It is however the 2012 scenario. Did you see the movie? After awhile they realized there was no hope of stopping the event so they focused on survival of the fittest.

We are facing an economic tsunami and like all tsunami's they can't be stopped, but they can be survived.

Remember the Tsunami that hit Indonesia? Did you see all those just standing on the beach picking up the fish?

They Died.

You need to choose are you going to keep standing on the beach or head to high ground.

Davids mom
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Observerofu

Wonderful response. Thanks!

Observerofu
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Just keeping it real

and telling it as I see it.

Sorry I took off my rose colored glasses a long time ago.

Davids mom
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Your reality - OK
Quote:

You need to choose are you going to keep standing on the beach or head to high ground.

My ancestors chose to stay and fight on the beach - I will also. Never had the luxury of 'rose colored glasses'.

Observerofu
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Your reality also DM

We are all on this ship together. Rather you end up in a lifeboat or adrift on the debris is up to you.

roundabout
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observer

Not in the USA!
We have few people in such circumstances now and if it gets worse our government won't ignore them as does Egypt and others. We will feed them food.

The Egyptian theory and other countries, is pretty much: survival of the fittest is best for us.

That has been the general theory for centuries, no---since eternity!

"Alms for the poor." Don't interrogate them before helping! You are then "judging."

Observerofu
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Roundabout you expect the Government to be able to function

well under those conditions?

What gives you that idea? It doesn't function now with stable conditions just how is it going to function if the Dollar crashes tomorrow?

Egypt had a stable Government as well. Are you watching the news right now?

roundabout
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observer

You missed the whole point!

Egypt had one-third unemployed, and the other 2/3 in the Army. Police or menial tasks. Wages for the menial tasks about $5 a day. The elite are wealthy from oil.

Iron fists kept it "stable" but only for so long.

People mis-treated will eventually find a way to better themselves! Thing is, they generally "work" harder than those who have plenty! At "labor," that is.

Observerofu
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...and just where do you see that?

"People mis-treated will eventually find a way to better themselves! Thing is, they generally "work" harder than those who have plenty! At "labor," that is."

Really then those on Welfare, WIC, Food Stamps and Sec 8 and on and on and on must be working really hard then.

Why is it we have raised a generation and now the next generation which are just happy to sit on their sofa's watching their big screen for the next check?

Welfare has been anchor around our necks. Not enough to get by too little to get ahead.

hutch866
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roundasnout

The highest rate of unemployment for Egypt that I could find is 9.4% in 2010, now I know this is a useless question because never have you EVER backed up any of your useless stats, but MAYBE you could supply your source of 33%?

roundabout
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hutch

Just as our rate 0f 9-10% is incorrect, so s Egypt's rate. Ours nears 20%.
The only numbers available are by the rules the government has used for many years.

As we do, the Egyptians do not count people who don't want a job or have stopped looking for a job, are sick, handicapped, street vendors who hawk tourists, students, and all those folks making $2-3,000 a year working temp jobs.

Although the Army and black-shirt policemen (have disappeared now) aren't counted as unemployed either, they make little cash, but are fed well and make some money from graft and pay-offs.

Wickipedia doesn't do much research!

Just what do you think Egypt produces anyway? Mostly antiquities, pyramids, and other useless crap. They are 6,000 years in being and still want a Pharaoh!

hutch866
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roundasnout

First, I didn't check Wickipedia, and second, I'm guessing you have no stats or sources, just your opinion. That's OK, I knew it was a long shot, you've never backed anything up before, in fact, you can't even relate a news story without distorting the facts. Same old ,same old.

roundabout
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hutch

Your constant request for "back-up," is getting old.

First it indicates that the comment is dishonest, and secondly it means that you haven't researched it. I suppose you believe Limbaugh and Beck?
It is a way for you to deny your error yet furnish no details as you never do!

What a government says about something that can make them look bad and what are the facts are two entirely different things! Remember the casualty figures out of Viet Nam later proved to be totally incorrect? Every day it was we got 400 of theirs and they got 40 of ours!

We have approximately 20% unemployment and Egypt has approximately 30+%.

Observerofu
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roundabout to ask for facts when statements are made

is nothing new.

If you are going to make points in an argument then one must expect counterpoints to be made and stated "facts" questioned.

Failure to backup statements made as facts, points in your argument only lessens the strength of your argument.

roundabout
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hutch and observer u

What good is a "backup" as you call it, saying that Egypt has only 9% unemployment, when it is common knowledge, supported by newspaper clippings, international research by the U.N., even Egyptian newspapers, to the facts that it is closer to 30% unemployment!

Why do you think they are rioting and have a 90% unemployment for the last 10 days? They are hungry and have no hope of doing better!

Anyway, what difference would it make to you what the unemployment is here or there---it doesn't, you want to argue with me about Reagan, Nixon, and Bush! Three Amigo catastrophes!

You tend to believe only those things you have seen (very little) and says what you want to hear!

Even if I took the time to find your so-called "backup" in what I referenced again, you certainly wouldn't read it! It amounts to 3-400 pages of research. Way beyond your wishes to know!

Governments lie! about whatever is necessary to lie about. You believe the conservative ones. (you don't believe, you support).

Observerofu
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Well roundabout I have learned to take your info with a shaker

of salt.

You do tend to "extend" facts a bit. You might be making a point but it does not help your argument.

hutch866
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roundasnout

After seeing you twist the facts on several articles from the AJC and elsewhere, I have no recourse but to believe everything you say on here is dishonest, of course, you could maybe, just ONCE, prove something, just ONCE, try it, you might like it. Now you might go on about how I'm denying your right to speak, or maybe you can call me Mr. Charley like Dm does, when she has to admit something unpleasant, but the fact remains you color every damn thing you say through your hate a Republican filter, and yet have never put forth one freaking source. So go ahead and prove me wrong.

roundabout
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hutch: show me the "back-up

On articles in the AJC (that should be easy for you to find, they are in Atlanta), concerning my "twisting of the facts.
I'm waiting!

hutch866
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roundasnout

I called you on them right here on this forum, you know it, and I know it. Go ahead and prove something just one time. Just once will do. Try Google for that 33%, nope, that won't do it either, good luck on finding that stat, of course you could prove that 66% of Egypt's work force is in the military like you said, of I don't think you can do that either. But, you go ahead and prove me wrong.

roundabout
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hutch

You simply do not have any idea as to the actual numbers in Egypt, do you?

You simply quote some google opinion, one source, and that has to be correct. Your "calling" is always, "prove it." What does "calling" mean anyway? Yelling, on the phone, yodelling, etc.?

It isn't correct in this case.

Some of us are Independents and do not have any loyalty to any party. We call them all as we know them to be true.

The point here is not whether Egypt has a bad unemployment number, but rather you select one item in a comment that you feel needs someone else's reasearch and go with that, just because the commenter disagrees with your philosophy, since you have no real idea about unemployment.

hutch866
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roundasnout

Yeah, you're about as independent as Obama is, the point is you throw BS out here and just because you say it, it's supposed to be true, good luck with that. Prove me wrong O wretched one and I'll go away, till then, ENJOY.