It's doesn't hurt to see what others think. (Tax Cuts)

259 replies [Last post]
Ninja Guy
Ninja Guy's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/26/2010
PTCO Get Real

For the record, I am not a liberal. Not a conservative. Not a Randian, neo-con, or tri-lateralist. I told you before, I am a realist. Unlike you, I formulate my own ideas and opinions based on many inputs. It is rather boring to cite passages from others writings, which can be taken out of context. You have to realize that Hayek, Rand, and other libertarians were fleeing totalitarian regimes from WWII and after. Had the leaders in Germany and Russia implemented Scandinavian style socialism, I think their views would be quite different. I can't blame them for adopting the libertarian philosophy given their life experience, and it is an interesting philosophy to study, but came you name one nation with a minimalist government, extremely low taxation, and no entitlements/social welfare systems that is a success today? I can name a few socialist leaning nations where the standard of living is quite high, such as Denmark, Singapore (perhaps authoritarian rather than socialist), and the UK. Does this mean the US has to rush out and implement socialized medicine wholesale? No, but neither would doing so drive the country into ruin, based on my personal experience living under socialist medical systems and what I have read about them in news articles (sorry, no books to cite). So, what country is your model--I take it the US is not given how you denigrate it at every chance.

PTC Observer
PTC Observer's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/23/2007
Ninja - Country

Spoken like a true socialist, any criticism concerning our government is automatically criticism about our country. The state is not the country, in many respects it is the antithesis of what not only the founders of the country conceived but of what the American people want. This will be more fully explored in the next several elections, as people like you are removed from office, and the professional bureaucrats and entitlement crowd take to the streets in violent protest. This has happened over and over again throughout history.

My advice to you is to stop trying to be all things to all people and take a stand on your beliefs and stop describing yourself as a “realist”. This double speak means nothing and you know it, it is akin to Newspeak. Why don’t you gather up all the courage you can muster and simply admit to what you are, a socialist.

You may have read the books you say you have read, which I doubt, but you have not given one book that supports your conclusions about the world around you. You are simply intellectually lazy.

As to your question about my particular belief in a form of government, it is a republic. It is something that we once had but it is now destroyed by people like you.

One book that shapes your thought.

Georgia Patriot
Georgia Patriot's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/17/2010
Ninja

I believe in a small unobtrusive government and free market capitalism. Now tell me what you believe in. -GP

Robert W. Morgan
Robert W. Morgan's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/26/2005
Liberals don't actually read or write, they just feel

They feel good about themselves and their good intentions. They don't actually have any practical skills or the ability to follow through on their good intentions. Reading an entire book takes time. Writing one takes skill and even more time, plus you actually have to have a point to make or no one else will read your book. Please check the NY Times best seller list for popular liberal authors.

As the liberal population recedes below 20% (because of gays not reproducing and abortion for the conveinence of the mother) and also because of the embarrased Obama zombies pretending they didn't vote for that empty suit, we are seeing a turning point back to sensible civilized behavior.

I truly believe yesterday was such a turning point. Prezbo took it as far as he could with the "Tax cuts for the rich" stupidity to please the 19% hard core liberals left. He delayed his speech for about an hour to test poll it and found out it resonated with only 18%. Then overnight it was down to 17%. But seriously, he (and we) always knew he had to compromise and now he has and the wild-eyed lefties will still howl, but are greatly diminished and will become an annoying side show when the next Congress is seated. Obama will get a challenge for the Dem's nomination and probably prevail and may even get reelected, but it won't matter with Republican control of Congress. All you whack jobs who think there was economic recovery under Clinton seem to forget it was a Republican Congress and severe compromise by a whipped President during the mid-term elections that really made that happen. We are now entering the first stages of that same scenario - although Prezbo is not as smart and nowhere near the politican Clinton was. Nevertheless, this is a beginning. Dark days will be behind us in a few months.

Courthouserules
Courthouserules's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/02/2010
Morgbo

You selfish, miserable, anti-gay zombie!
That isn't impressive (above) but I simply can't be the jack-ass you seem to be.

I thought liberals were called "egg-heads" not too long ago due to many of them going to Ivy League Schools!
Now you say they can't or won't even read! (I think you mean the TEAS!)
Make up your mind. I don't care which way, I am an Independent voter.

Congress this week has been only a show for both sides for voters.
What they are going to agree to and vote for soon was resolved two-three weeks ago.

The FED is keeping the country afloat right now--gave out many hundreds of billions (a secret until Bernanke said so yesterday)where needed.

Even the conserves couldn't leave the unemployed hungry, and everyone knew the old tax cut would be renewed in some fashion.
They all want re-elected!

All of Washington now knows (as has been evident for 2 years) that we will have very high unemployment for 5-10 years---maybe forever.

It will take another 2-3 years to weed out the false assets the banks have.
Construction (except for the medical industry) is dead also for years.

President Obama sure has caused a hell of a mess in 23 months, hasn't he?

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
R. Morgan
Quote:

All you whack jobs who think there was economic recovery under Clinton seem to forget it was a Republican Congress and severe compromise by a whipped President during the mid-term elections that really made that happen.

Your posting while under the influence proves that your selective memory is in error. No one denies that we're in this mess because the Republican Party did not follow it's own conservative fiscal principles. Hoover and W Bush will go down in history as causing financial havoc. Dark days will be behind us because our 'leaders' realize that unless they work together for the American people - THEY WILL NOT BE RE-ELECTED! . . AND many will not forget that the Republicans held the middle-class hostage in order to get the 'rich' their tax extension. Hmmmmmm.

Robert W. Morgan
Robert W. Morgan's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/26/2005
Getting off track, Moms

Sure Republicans and Democrats caused it and mostly Democrats (Frank, Dodd, Clinton and Obama) made it worse. Got it. But the point is that Prezbo has given up his own class warfare position and compromised as anyone with a room-temperature IQ knew he was going to do. Sure it took a lot to get his attention because after 2 years in office he was still in campaign mode catering to his own special intterest groups - the layabouts, the parasites and other non-producers. Now with the tax breaks for everyone extended, we will see the end of uncertainty and the beginning of some economic growth from the people who actually produce something worthwhile - like jobs.

Even extending the unemployment benefits is a good idea because as the brilliant scholar and economist, Nancy Pelosi explained - paraphrasing here "Paying unemployment benefits helps the economy and creates jobs" - fine, so what, if we have 10% unemployed - pay them until the real producers can gear up and create some jobs for the half of the 10% who really want to work.

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
RW

As long as we only look at 'party' - this situation will continue to divide the citizens of this country. The point is - those who are taking the selfish, me-first position will be left in the dust. The younger generation will learn from our mistakes (hopefully) - and not get greedy with earnings of 16/17% interest on their investments until the well runs dry. THE WELL IS DRY! People are out of work - not just moochers - but those who received an education in a country that is rated 23rd among the 50 industrialized countries in the world. Our 'producers' have outsourced our jobs to China and India. WAKE UP from your stooper. It is time to tighten our collective belts, educate our young so that they can compete in the global economy, and look to the future. Our 'glory' days are coming to an end unless we take hold and do what is necessary now. We have elected leaders who are supposed to do this. Our leaders, according to history, with the will of the American people, have brought us out of many crises. If you and I were so brilliant as to have the solution to this problem, we wouldn't be wasting our time typing on the Citizen blog. Right?

hutch866
hutch866's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/28/2005
stooper?
Davids mom wrote:

WAKE UP from your stooper.

As you said to me, who can argue with that kind of intellect?

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
AWW HUTCH

Ya got me!! LOL Congratulations!

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
Hutch

Sorry for using such an archaic term:

Quote:

stoop
1    /stup/ Show Spelled[stoop] Show IPA
–verb (used without object)
1.
to bend the head and shoulders, or the body generally, forward and downward from an erect position: to stoop over a desk.
2.
to carry the head and shoulders habitually bowed forward: to stoop from age.
3.
(of trees, precipices, etc.) to bend, bow, or lean.
4.
to descend from one's level of dignity; condescend; deign: Don't stoop to argue with him.

5.
to swoop down, as a hawk at prey.
6.
to submit; yield.
7.
Obsolete . to come down from a height.
–verb (used with object)
8.
to bend (oneself, one's head, etc.) forward and downward.
9.
Archaic . to abase, humble, or subdue.
–noun

10.
the act or an instance of stooping.
11.
a stooping position or carriage of body: The elderly man walked with a stoop.
12.
a descent from dignity or superiority.

13.
a downward swoop, as of a hawk.
Use stooper in a Sentence
See images of stooper
Search stooper on the Web
Origin:
bef. 900; ME stoupen (v.), OE stūpian; c. MD stūpen to bend, bow; akin to steep1

hutch866
hutch866's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/28/2005
Dm

Which one of these definitions do you wake up from, am I really to believe you meant to say stooper?

AtHomeGym
AtHomeGym's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/18/2007
Hutch & Stooper

C'mon Hutch, next ask for the definition of "weasel-wording" and see what comes out!

hutch866
hutch866's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/28/2005
AHG

That was almost as good as Bonker$ and his Swedish defense.

Mike King
Mike King's picture
Offline
Joined: 11/29/2006
Hutch, Gym

Please, stop picking on the defenseless! See you in a bit.

hutch866
hutch866's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/28/2005
Mike

Sure wish I could make it, but the kid has lessons and such all afternoon so I can't break away....just belch out loud and blame it on me. Next time for sure.

hutch866
hutch866's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/28/2005
Well Gym

You can see what she came up with, but remember, SHE was 'NICE' to you.

AtHomeGym
AtHomeGym's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/18/2007
Hutch

Mike and I had a good session. I'll get to you, Cyclist, Wedge, & S. Lindsey on direct email and see if we can set up a meeting later this month. I need to do it before the 21st.

hutch866
hutch866's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/28/2005
Gym

With the cold and the rain lately, my Saturdays are looking open, unless it dries up and warms up.

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
hutch

The ones in bold. Maybe it's a regional thing. Sorry it's like Greek to you.

hutch866
hutch866's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/28/2005
Sorry Dm

I've gotta call BS on you here, I know you meant stupor, but you'd rather lie then admit you made a simple mistake. I expected no more of you, and you didn't disappoint me. I wouldn't even have said anything, except you made such a point of a mistake when you pitched your little hissy fit last time. You're a real piece of work. I will admit though, this was a performance worthy of Bonker$ himself.

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
Of Course I'll admit my mistake

stupor it is!!

Quote:

Definition of STUPOR
1
: a condition of greatly dulled or completely suspended sense or sensibility
2
: a state of extreme apathy or torpor resulting often from stress or shock : daze
See stupor defined for English-language learners »
Examples of STUPOR

1. He fell into a drunken stupor.
2. in a stupor of fatigue

It took you long enough to look it up! Wake Up!!

Note: When you can't answer the hypocrisy of the Republican position at this time, question the incorrect use of a word. That will shut these quasi-liberals up!! Yea for 'their' side. I used to be conceited, but now I'm perfect!! LOL Have a nice night.

hutch866
hutch866's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/28/2005
Davids mom wrote: Sorry for

Davids mom wrote:

Sorry for using such an archaic term:
Quote:

stoop
1    /stup/ Show Spelled[stoop] Show IPA
–verb (used without object)
1.
to bend the head and shoulders, or the body generally, forward and downward from an erect position: to stoop over a desk.
2.
to carry the head and shoulders habitually bowed forward: to stoop from age.
3.
(of trees, precipices, etc.) to bend, bow, or lean.
4.
to descend from one's level of dignity; condescend; deign: Don't stoop to argue with him.
5.
to swoop down, as a hawk at prey.
6.
to submit; yield.
7.
Obsolete . to come down from a height.
–verb (used with object)
8.
to bend (oneself, one's head, etc.) forward and downward.
9.
Archaic . to abase, humble, or subdue.
–noun
10.
the act or an instance of stooping.
11.
a stooping position or carriage of body: The elderly man walked with a stoop.
12.
a descent from dignity or superiority.
13.
a downward swoop, as of a hawk.
Use stooper in a Sentence
See images of stooper
Search stooper on the Web
Origin:
bef. 900; ME stoupen (v.), OE stūpian; c. MD stūpen to bend, bow; akin to steep1

or this one

Davids mom wrote:

The ones in bold. Maybe it's a regional thing. Sorry it's like Greek to you.

If you weren't being dishonest then what was all this about. Whatever.

Note: When you can't answer the hypocrisy of a simple mistake, question the incorrect use of a word. That will shut these people who just ask a simple question up!! Yea for 'your' side. I used to be conceited, but now I'm perfect!! LOL Have a nice night.

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
Awww come on Hutch

you're more secure than this! Don't get your pants all wadded up over stupor / or stooper. I made a mistake. I can live with that. May all my mistakes in life be so small. . .and yours too.
Feel better?

hutch866
hutch866's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/28/2005
Dm

In all this it's you that's had your panties in a wad, not me. I notice you didn't answer the question. You're so predictable.

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
hutch & ahg

Thanks for your help in finding the archives. I answered the question posed by AHG. What is predictable is 'grumpy old men' who are having a difficult time realizing that just maybe a woman may know something. The absolute gall of a 3 year enlisted man who had 15 people under his supervision telling a woman who had more responsibility at that time that she didn't know what she was talking about is ridiculous. I feel I treated that veteran with respect at the time of the discussion. His attitude was denigrating to women who were married to servicemen at that time. As the archives showed, there were other 'wives' who chimed in the discussion - because his arrogant attitude, based on ignorance, was disgusting. You're right - I'm upset - yet pleased that the era of total disregard for the intelligence of women is over. Just because this Sgt. didn't realize that DEFCON2 was implemented during the Cuban crisis - doesn’t' mean that this SGT. (3 years military experience) with 15 under his supervision had more knowledge than those who were living on SAC bases. . . especially the wives of B52 crew members. Wad gone - life goes on.

hutch866
hutch866's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/28/2005
Wrong thread Dm

The question I posed and you never answered(big surprise), was if you were so willing to admit you were wrong about a misspelled word, what was all that junk about the definition of stoop?

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
hutch - LOL

I made a mistake Mr. Charley. I is so very, very sorry.

hutch866
hutch866's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/28/2005
And yet again

it turns to race, and you call AHG arrogant. Still no answer I see, like I said, you are so predictable.

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
HUTCH

I answered you in post #98. I'm not going to grovel. Mr. Charley - who won't accept an admission of a mistake can be as black as coal - the ignorance of his attitude, such as yours, makes him a MR. CHARLEY in my mind. Ignorance comes in all colors. How many times do I have to say I made a mistake to you. . . .or am I just not accepting your inability to comprehend?

hutch866
hutch866's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/28/2005
nice deflection mom

The question was what was all the crap definitions of stoop, I won't 'stoop' to your level and get racial here. Please you have a great day, and thanks for your vague contributions.

AtHomeGym
AtHomeGym's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/18/2007
Hutch, DM & DEFCON2

DM, if you wonder why I haven't replied yet, I'll give you two scenarios: first, I'm so embarrassed I can't speak, next, I'm laughing so hard I can't type. You choose.
What you did is take my comments and insinuate tht I made them at the time I was a young soldier, which of course is totally false. I made them as a 42 yr veteran of intelligence and war planning experience. And nowhere, nowhere, can you show where I said you lied. Just didn't happen. Ain't my style. With all your recollection capability, maybe, just maybe you know and remember exercises SAC did that put the max nr of 52s in the air in the minimum time--helluva noisy deal. You had no way of knowing whether the departure of planes was an exercise or a real crisis--unless someone broke security and told you.
Hutch: Best to salvage whatever sanity you can out of this and don't STOOP to a level that would place you in the archaic position! I'll be in touch.

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
Southern Gentlemen - Hutch/AHG
Quote:

I made them as a 42 yr veteran of intelligence and war planning experience

And after 42 years of intelligence experience and war planning you didn't know about the Defcon2 in the Cuban Crisis? No one broke security enlisted man - families who had clearance were told where to go for shelter. Evidently your access to 'intelligence' was limited. But hey - what does some old broad know about the 'military'. You're probably laughing - but you should be embarrassed. You didn't say I lied? Well, when one says one doesn't know what they're talking about because the incident never happened - pretty close. Hutch, AHG - you have shown what fine, secure southern gentleman you are. Thank you.

hutch866
hutch866's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/28/2005
Dm

You certainly showed your class, no wait, gotta have it to show it.....never mind, the racial invective said it all.

Robert W. Morgan
Robert W. Morgan's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/26/2005
Sorry for the delay Moms. Had to talk to Presbo

Yes he called and asked what I would do and of course I felt it was appropriate to tell him. Yes, I did call him sir and was very respectful.

I told him that the position he has taken on the tax cuts and unemployment benefits were a good short-term fix for the problems of the country. I also suggested that he may want to focus a little bit more on more steps to help the country get out of the economic mess he is in and when he asked what specifically he could do, he was drowned out by verbal abuse from the peoples in the oval office. I think one of them said God D***m America, but I'm not sure. Nevertheless, he hung up.

Had I been able to continue, I would have told him to act like a leader and stop pandering to the idiots on the left (10% at most) that are trying to control the country - which as I'm sure you (and he) must know is mostly right-center. You do know that don't you?

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
RW

So glad you were polite. Good night.

Georgia Patriot
Georgia Patriot's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/17/2010
Most are not liberals

The truth be known, they are Fabian Socialists http://fabiansocialism.info/. -GP

Courthouserules
Courthouserules's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/02/2010
Economy going GP (Wonderful business men)

If we can't make money one way, we will make it another!
I saw a large ad today in the AJC from Macys. Here is what I saw:

A huge picture of a mattress set with pillow top and all, for $599 for a KING size!
Then I noticed numerous areas of lettering from large to small to unreadable.

The large ones said FREE DELIVERY, NO INTEREST for 12 months.

The smaller ones said this:
To get free delivery, a $70 dollar value in zone, you must purchase $999 worth of furniture.
It may come from a northern warehouse with freight charges to Atlanta.
Unless you live on the next block you will be out of zone! (or something like that).

Another: Removal fees are $70 each.

Now in very fine print requiring a mag glass: You will owe no interest after 12 months if you have met the specified monthly payments with no lateness whatsoever. If you make a larger payment one month to cover two months, and do not pay the following months, you will immediately owe interest on the complete bill,

Also note that the specified monthly payment will only pay a fraction of the total bill and the last one will be huge!

If you fail on any of these things the in interest rate is 27% for the entire original bill!

If you buy other stuff, which you must do to get probable free freight, it is NOT free freight.

Then: The savings shown over a certain original price does not mean we ever sold even one mattress at those prices. It is just a price showing its worth, maybe.

These fine sale prices do not apply at any Macys warehouse or sales center.
They are only good for two days as shown, but if any are left over after the two days, we may go on selling them cheaper!

Courthouserules
Courthouserules's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/02/2010
Forgot to mention....

......that a new federal law concerning false ads and also one to disallow TV ads to be so much louder than the shows they sponsor.
Paper ads have gotten downright devious and TV sound is disturbing peoples ears who have sensibilities of the ear!

Those who do not want regulation just do not understand just how far such stuff would go without it!

Observerofu
Observerofu's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/14/2010
JFK, Reagan and Bush thought it was important
Joe Kawfi
Joe Kawfi's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/20/2009
Sour Grapes

It's a shame that there is a 'president' in office that has to throw a hissy fit because he was called on the carpet by the American people (see: Nov. 2 shellacking) and he can no longer get a rubber stamp on every one of his hairbrained, ill-advised ideas like raising taxes in the middle of a recession.

First he referred to us as "the enemy", and now we are "hostage takers".

Now it's time for the grown-ups to run things for a while. obama has shown his utter incompetence in leading this country over, and over, and over again.

The sooner the incompetent numbskull obama is removed from office, the better for America.

lettinguno
lettinguno's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/17/2010
Finally working

The stimulus is finally working. I think everyone should lighten up on President Obama, why just three weeks ago he got jobs for 63 Republicans.

swac
swac's picture
Offline
Joined: 02/28/2007
Taxes

We are still at war. Remember Afganistan?
It is illogical to reduce taxes. If we must fight wars we should pay for them not pass the bill to our children and grandchildren.
As for the Fair tax. If Boortz is pushing it; it's got to be bad for me.

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
Georgia Tax Cuts/Fayette County Education

We all better pay close attention to the proposed tax cuts that Governor Deal is considering. The decisions that have to be made for the good of Georgia are not going to be easy. I understand that it is necessary to continue to make Georgia a 'business friendly' state. I just question the continued cuts to education in a state that ranks 48 out of 50 in academic achievement. A CEO would question investing millions of dollars in a state when it is obvious that in the future, American businesses are not going to be able to outsource - and will have to depend on American workers. A state that has a low achieving work force is not an attractive investment. There must be other places to make these cuts. Fayette County has maintained a great educational program - and has a Superintendent who is coming in at a difficult time. This county produces achievers. Let's keep our eyes open to make sure this continues. Even if you don't have children in the public schools, our home values are often based on the success of the public school system.

Courthouserules
Courthouserules's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/02/2010
Is anyone trying to read comments here?

One has to click and schrool through numerous pages under More Comments to find it!

I don't read anymore on this thread for that reason.

Observerofu
Observerofu's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/14/2010
Interesting to note that 66% of Americans favor tax cuts for all

Although I tend to use Rasmussen instead of the Huffington or MSNBC for my polling data. Rasmussen has been called by one lately the Teaparters best friend. I guess suggesting Rasmussen is biased.

So I guess Gallup will do.

"Two major elements included in the tax agreement reached Monday between President Barack Obama and Republican leaders in Congress meet with broad public support. Two-thirds of Americans (66%) favor extending the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts for all Americans for two years, and an identical number support extending unemployment benefits for the long-term unemployed." Gallup Polls

http://www.gallup.com/poll/145109/Americans-Support-Major-Elements-Tax-C...

I guess they will be now tarred with that same brush.

Chris P. Bacon
Chris P. Bacon's picture
Offline
Joined: 02/28/2010
Well then...

Pray tell us, what's more important then?

Extending the irresponsible tax cuts and making the deficit larger?

Or

Letting the tax cuts lapse and shrinking the deficit?

Hmmmm?

Observerofu
Observerofu's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/14/2010
Extending the Tax Cuts for all of course

because as I have already shown. Continuing the rates which have been in existence for 10 years is not GIVING money to anyone. It is simply NOT collecting funds that the Government PROJECTED to covered THEIR spending.

You cannot equate the two bacon. A simplistic argument and nonsensical response.

Hmmmmm back at cha.

Courthouserules
Courthouserules's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/02/2010
OOU

It is the "lapse" of a law that gave everyone a break hoping (by Bush) that it would help our economy. IT DID NOT, AND WON'T THIS TIME, IT JUST CREATES MORE DEBT SINCE WE WILL SPEND IT ANYWAY.

Observerofu
Observerofu's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/14/2010
Go ahead and prove that one CHR

show us where the Middle Class did not benefit and the Economy was not helped.

Chris P. Bacon
Chris P. Bacon's picture
Offline
Joined: 02/28/2010
You've shown us nothing

You've shown us nothing, of course. Nothing but the typical babble out of both sides of your mouth, whining about the need to reduce deficits out of one side of your mouth, while whining about the need for more deficit-enlarging temporary tax cuts out of the other side.

It's an intellectually dishonest attempt to limit debate to terms of your liking, i.e. spending cuts only.

Observerofu
Observerofu's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/14/2010
Bacon I have no doubt you do not understand

but then again Progressives only understand wealth confiscation and control of business.

PTC Observer
PTC Observer's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/23/2007
Bacon - how about

cutting government's size and scope to match income?

Hmmmmm?

Chris P. Bacon
Chris P. Bacon's picture
Offline
Joined: 02/28/2010
Back to Square One

"cutting government size and scope to match income".

That's a rather glib suggestion, although it fits on a bumper sticker and therefore has enormous appeal to the Becktards who routinely espouse simplistic solutions to complex problems.

We're back at square one once again....a great many people want spending cuts, but no one can agree on exactly where to cut, and the "big three" (Defense, Medicare, Social Security) have very vocal supporters who turn out to vote in such numbers that make it politically infeasible to make meaningful cuts.

The net result of such gridlock is a growing deficit. We're a country that makes certain non-negotiable demands upon our government, yet refuses to pay enough taxes to fund those demands.

PTC Observer
PTC Observer's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/23/2007
Bacon - seems

It seems that it is only a complex issue when people like me want to reduce the size and scope of government. And it's simple when people like you simply want to raise taxes on others to expand it size and scope.

I didn't suggest mere spending cuts, I suggested bring the size of government in line with its income. I say cut it all until we get there, all of it.

PTC Observer
PTC Observer's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/23/2007
Angry Liberals - sending jobs overseas

Angry Liberals love sending money and jobs overseas at taxpayers expense. Let's try that again ....Proposed Today...

http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/677-e2-wire/133057-reid-unveils-tax-pac...

As GP so aptly said, once you have an entitlement you can't get rid of it, it has a life of its own. Special interests, lobbists, unions and government employees just keep it going, no matter what. It doesn't even need to make sense.

Ninja Guy
Ninja Guy's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/26/2010
PTCO, Okay Here is One

As I said, I am not a liberal. But if you want to read a good defense of liberalism, I recommend

The Conscience of a Liberal by Paul Krugman

I haven't read it and don't plan to anytime soon, but he should be able to put up a much better argument for progressivism than I, Bacon, Lion, and DM ever could combined in the next 5 years.

He also wrote a book called the Great Unraveling if you want another.

John Kenneth Galbreath also wrote on this topic some. Search out some of his books.

As I have said before, I think the government is functioning the way it was intended to work. We vote, our representatives pass legislation, the executive branch implements them, and the supreme court rules on constitutionality. If you are looking for nirvana, I think you would have a better shot with Buddhism than Libertarianism.

Georgia Patriot
Georgia Patriot's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/17/2010
Never met a Liberal

They all call themselves "moderates". -GP

Ninja Guy
Ninja Guy's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/26/2010
Fatal Flaw In Constitution

PTCO, rather than blaming groups you don't like, you should look the Constitution itself. It is tragically flawed in that the Congress has the power to pass spending bills (originating in the House of Reps). As long as that remains, the outflow of money will continue.

Georgia Patriot
Georgia Patriot's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/17/2010
The Spending Would Stop

If the money was not there. We need a Balanced budget Amendment. Congress should have to say how EVERY SPENDING BILL would be paid for. The UNCONSTITUTIONAL FED is the problem. Creating money out of thin air. Buying it's own debt. -GP

Ninja Guy
Ninja Guy's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/26/2010
Okay By Me

If such a bill passed and were signed by the president, that would be okay by me. You're mantra that the Fed is unconstitutional is going nowhere. It's like Mexico still claiming that Texas belows to them. Get Real. Also, the Fed is not buying its own debt. It is buying treasury bills issued by the Treasury Department.

carbonunit52
carbonunit52's picture
Offline
Joined: 03/05/2008
Balanced Budget Amendment

I seem to recall one of the arguements against a balanced budget amendment is that it would not hold down spending on its own but would require a tax increase to meet increased spending. Taking the responsibility for a tax increase away from politicians is asking for a lot of trouble.

Georgia Patriot
Georgia Patriot's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/17/2010
Where Does the FED get the money to buy the T Bills?

If you answered they get the money by typing numbers in a computer, you are a prize winner! And every time they type in more money it makes the dollar in your pocket worth a little less. QE1, QE2, QE3? Where does it end? Just because something has been done wrong many times for many years does not make it right, the FED is Unconstitutional. -GP

Ninja Guy
Ninja Guy's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/26/2010
Already Been Down the QE Road

GP, we have already been down the QE road, don't want to spend time doing that again. Perhaps someone on a blog in another state will engage you there. Yes, the Fed creates the money to fund the debt buying through electronic book entry. This may, or may not, lead to significant inflation to the extent of seriously eroding purchasing power. We'll see. But, Get Real, the Fed has been here since 1913 and will be here long after you are gone. You can't make it disappear by clicking your heels three times and repeating 'Unconstitutional, unconstitutional, unconstitutional.' You should move on to a more serous topic like how the moon landings were faked. Also, if the Fed were abolished, how do you propose congress to regulate the value of the currency? Any good or original ideas on that?

Georgia Patriot
Georgia Patriot's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/17/2010
All of my Ideas

are good and original! How about a currency tied to something valuable, I don't know, ...maybe GOLD? Like the Muslim countries have done with the Dinar? It is rumored that soon all oil will be priced in only GOLD. And when GOLD is worth 6000, yes SIX THOUSAND US DOLLARS an ounce, where will that put us? Our inflation will make the Wiemar Republic's problems look small. http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_04/powers060304.html -GP

PTC Observer
PTC Observer's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/23/2007
Ninja - What changed

in 1913 that we can't go back?

The FED was an outgrowth of the 1907 panic, caused by Roosevelt (Teddy) another fine progressive.

We did quite well before a central bank, it was the interference of government that caused the boom and bust cycles that continue to this day.

The FED hasn't done anything to meet its established goals of economic stability. It has in fact created uncertainty in the markets.

Ninja Guy
Ninja Guy's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/26/2010
What Happened in 1913?

The Congress created the Fed. That is what changed. You seriously think the Federal Reserve Act will be repealed in your lifetime? Get Real. Sure, the Fed came about in the wake of the 1907 panic, but what about the banking crises of 1819, 1837, 1857, and 1873? Yes, I know, Austrian economic theory explains it all, blah, blah, blah. Okay, now you want to put the US on the gold standard or perhaps a bi-metallic standard. You know what that would do. That would put control of the value of the dollar in the hands of the Canadians, the Russians, and the South Africans. Why would you want to do that? Or, perhaps you are a proponent of free banking, with each bank issuing its own currency. The Fed isn't perfect but its the best system going at the moment.

As for books, I don't have much interest in reading Krugman's books. His newspaper column is enough for me. I don't have any agenda to promote progressivism or liberalism or any other ism. I think the US is working fine as it is and does not require any major overhaul. My aim in blogging here is to refute nonsensical theories and ideas espoused people like you and GPat.

What is the solution to the Constitution's fatal flaw? The balanced budget amendment? Good luck getting that. I'd rather watch reruns of the Simpsons, which I really dislike, than expend any brain cells thinking about what it would take for a balanced budget amendment to get passed.

Get Real and Get Happy!

Georgia Patriot
Georgia Patriot's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/17/2010
The Solution?

Article I, Sec. 8 (the delegated powers) says only Congress can coin money. No clause exists that allows the Congress to farm out this authority. The passage of the Federal Reserve Act was unconstitutional because 1) the US Constitution prohibited "bills of credit" (i.e., paper notes) and 2) the US Constitution would have to be amended to go off the silver and gold coin standard for money. The US Constitution can only be amended pursuant to Article V. The US Constitution cannot be amended by statute. The answer is to disolve the unconstitutional FED and establish a currency controlled by congress and tied to gold. They could even sell the fake money to Parker Bros for use in Monopoly games. Just because a mistake was made in 1913 doesn't mean it can't be corrected. -GP

Chris P. Bacon
Chris P. Bacon's picture
Offline
Joined: 02/28/2010
Revisionism
PTC Observer wrote:

We did quite well before a central bank, it was the interference of government that caused the boom and bust cycles that continue to this day.

The FED hasn't done anything to meet its established goals of economic stability. It has in fact created uncertainty in the markets.

History says otherwise.

There were no less than four depressions in the 19th century vs. one in the 20th century (post creation of the Fed).

PTC Observer
PTC Observer's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/23/2007
Bacon - May

May I remind you that the Great Depression happen following the creation of the FED. It had a great deal in creating the Depression or have you not read history lately.

Do you think that the politically motivated low interest rates of the past decade had anything to do with the housing collapes? May I remind you it was the FED that set those rates.

I agree there is a a bit of revisionism going on.

My point is that the FED has not done anything to meet the goal of economic stability, I will stand by the statement.

PTC Observer
PTC Observer's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/23/2007
Ninja - fatal flaw

There are answers to this problem, if you think a litte about it.

Waiting for the next election.

Courthouserules
Courthouserules's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/02/2010
PTC Observer

Your waiting for the next election comment reminds me of the lottery players----maybe I'll win next week if I spend more on it.
(Could his math be that bad?)

PTC Observer
PTC Observer's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/23/2007
Ninja - Classic

recommending books you've never read. Classic progressive herd mentality non-thinking.

Krugman the darling of the progressive elite, and don't give me the business about being named a Nobel Prize winner. He's a political hack that's getting wealthy using people like you.

Please....

Ninja Guy
Ninja Guy's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/26/2010
Okay, My One Book Is

the Bible. Specifically, the New Testament. I already told you another. Envy--A Theory of Social Behavior. Human Action is another, but you already read that one I guess. Some more are Of Human Bondage. The Razor's Edge. Dove. Great Expectations. The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. A Critiue of Pure Reason. Atlas Shrugged. Sounder. Robinson Crusoe. Gulliver's Travels. Archie comic books. Thomas the Tank Engine. The Dirty Dozen. Poetry by Robert Frost. Didn't get much from Kafka--too weird. Star Trek rather than Star Wars. And the list goes on...

Intellectually lazy? I told you, I bought and read boxes of mises.org books over a decade agoand threw them in the books for charity bin a few years back. I guess there is a very good homeless Austrian economist out on the streets somehwere now. I would say that you are the lazy one as you can only spout from Henry Hazelitt and whatever Lew Rockwell tells you to read. Can you at least get around to talking about David Ricardo. At least he was an orginal thinker.

You are like a big-mouth bass hooked line and sinker by the Austrian school. Been there, done that, got real, got my head out of my you know where. Perhaps I should start a 12-step program for those intoxicated by mises.org.

BTW, you never answered my question about instead of having a bowling alley in PTC that we should get a bikini girl jello wrestling palace that serves untaxed moonshine. We could put it right next to your house, as you know those pesky zoning regulations interfer with our property rights and stuff. I don't think you will answer this one because it might require some orignal thought on your part.

Gute nacht!

PTC Observer
PTC Observer's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/23/2007
Finally - Ninja answers

The Bible.

Thou shall not steal.

Being intellectually lazy has nothing to do with the books you've read.

As to Human Action, your synopsis is not surprisingly incorrect. Read “Economic Science and the Austrian Method” by Hans-Hermann Hoppe. It's a short book so you should whip right through it.

Living in PTC is voluntary, you can put up with the codes that protect your property values or you can move.

I choose to stay. It is about choice isn't Ninja?

Ninja Guy
Ninja Guy's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/26/2010
PTC O

The Bible, New Testament:

Christ said, “A new commandment I give unto you, That you love one another; as I have loved you, ..

Also from the NT:

Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

From Human Action. Sorry, I used discomfort instead of the verbatim uneasiness. That must have thrown you off.

2. The Prerequisites of Human Action
We call contentment or satisfaction that state of a human being which does
not and cannot result in any action. Acting man is eager to substitute a more satisfactory state of affairs for a less satisfactory. His mind imagines conditions which suit him better, and his action aims at bringing about this desired state. The incentive that impels a man to act is always some uneasiness.

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
Ninja Guy

GP and some others who post here, by their words, will never understand humans like Bill Gates, Ophra, and countless other financially successful citizens who give because the words of Jesus make sense to them. (and don't forget the 'widows mite'). Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukah, Happy Holidays - 'tis the Season!!

Georgia Patriot
Georgia Patriot's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/17/2010
Ninja

Glad to see you read the New Testament. Of course you do not have to answer this, I respect evryone relationship with God, but I am just curious, does your salvation depend on everyone else's (collective salvation)? Personally I feel Jesus wanted people to give and help as individuals, not by the government forcing them to do so, which is truly the difference between between liberals today and his philosophies which most liberals misunderstand. -GP

Ninja Guy
Ninja Guy's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/26/2010
GPAT

Nope, salvation depends solely on the atoning sacrifice of Jesus, who I think wanted you to sell everything you had, give it to the poor, and follow him. Best as I can tell, Jesus spent a lot of time talking about helping the poor, but not much on individual rights and libertarianism.

Recent Comments