Dems now back tracking on Healthcare bill.

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Observerofu
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At least parts of it. The requirement for businesses to file a 1099 form to the IRS for every purchase of $600.00 or more.

"Top Democrats are uniting with Republicans in a show of support for small business owners: Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus, D-Mont., said Friday that he will introduce legislation to repeal the expanded 1099 reporting requirements set to take effect in 2012."

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Top-Democrat-Max-Baucus-cnnm-1708555354.ht...

Funny now that they lost the House this little hidden gem in the HEALTHcare bill becomes part of the "We will fix it later" stance the Democrats took when this was passed.

Baucus one of the authors of the bill when asked if he had read the bill responded with typical liberal elitism. “I don’t think you want me to waste my time to read every page of the health care bill. You know why? It’s statutory language,” Baucus said. “We hire experts.”
http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/max-baucus-auth...

I guess like Pelosi said " We have to pass it to find out what is in it" and as the great Reverend Jeremiah Wright once said "America's Chickens have come home to roost". So to has the great blunder that is this Administration and the Socialist experiment that is Progressivism now come home to roost as well.

Joe Kawfi
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Observer - of course the libs are backtraking

Just look what Obumbles mandate is doing to the poor, poor children!!

ObamaCare: SEIU to drop healthcare coverage for children

Citing Barack Obama’s healthcare reform law, the SEIU in New York has announced that it will be dropping coverage for the children of its members.

New federal health-care reform legislation requires plans with dependent coverage to expand that coverage up to age 26,” Behroozi wrote in a letter to members Oct. 22. “Our limited resources are already stretched as far as possible, and meeting this new requirement would be financially impossible.

Observerofu
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Seniors harmed so AARP can make more money selling medigap

"Last year, the AARP received $427 million in royalty fees for selling “Medigap” policies to seniors – more than it received from membership dues, grant revenues, and private contributions combined. Yet thanks to its own special deal, the AARP is exempted from the $60 billion tax ObamaCare imposes on insurance plans.

Though the White House boasts that ObamaCare prohibits insurance companies from excluding coverage based upon pre-existing conditions, AARP is also exempted from this requirement. Thus, AARP and others selling Medigap policies can and will continue to impose coverage waiting periods on seniors.

And while ObamaCare limits insurance executives’ compensation to $500,000 a year, AARP is conveniently exempted from the requirement. As a result, AARP can pay its CEO more than $1 million a year, just as it has in the past.

Finally, ObamaCare requires Medicare Advantage plans to spend at least 85 percent of all premium dollars on medical claims – but again, it exempts AARP. AARP’s Medigap plans must only spend 65 percent on medical claims, ensuring that AARP can pocket more royalties at the expense of seniors’ care."
http://townhall.com/columnists/Grace-MarieTurner/2010/06/22/a_snow_job_o...

Georgia Patriot
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AARP

no longer represents it's members. Join http://www.amac.us/ instead. -GP

Courthouserules
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observer: wait a minute

I am no fan of AARP--especially in recent years when they started pushing half-assed "insurance" policies, but I do not understand your attitude about a business going about business without government intervention!!!!

Could it be that many of these folks vote democratic?
Why, you even questioned how much a guy makes who brought in 427 million in royalty fees!
Heck, banks and Wall Street pay hundreds of millions for losses!

Make up your principles!

Observerofu
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Simple CHR

When a business climbs into bed w/Government to get paid for it's services it is no better than a prostitute.

Case in point look at GE. They crawled into bed with Obama and was given $16 Billion for the performance.

AARP endorsed the HC bill BECAUSE they knew they could make ten's of Millions on Medigap. The Politicians did it so they could get AARP endorsement.

Both failed to serve the people they represent.

Whores all.

Chris P. Bacon
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A victory for quote Crap Health Coverage unquote

As is often the case with a Joke Awfi post, the Debbil is in the details.

First of all, this coverage drop does not affect the entire SEIU. It does not affect the entire SEIU of a single state (New York). Heck it doesn't even affect a single union local in a single state (NYC Local).

Here's the rrrrrrrrrrrrrrest of the story: The SEIU New York City local has two separate and distinct union health plans: a standard health insurance plan for nurses, physical therapists, and other professionals, and a barebones self-insurance plan for unskilled minimum wage orderlies and "home healthcare assistants". It is the latter plan that is being dropped. This self-insurance could not absorb the cost of covering children to age 26 (they WERE covering children up to 23 already).

This begs the questions: what is better....no healthcare or crap health coverage? It's important to note that ALL "crap health coverage" will be phased out in 4 years, replaced by health care that won't charge you $13 a week ($600 per year) for a whopping $2000 (capped) insurance coverage.

Good article on "crap health coverage" HERE

Spear Road Guy
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It's About Darn Time The Democrats Turned

Keep them on a short leash!!!

911inside
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Dems Back Tracking on Healthcare Bill

We can't let up with the phone calls either. That gets more done than emails anyday although email if you can't call. We have to bring this unconstitutional garbage to a halt.

Chris P. Bacon
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America 1, Republicans 0

Funny how you don't hear much from the Republicans about repealing Obamacare anymore....I guess they realize they don't have the votes. Besides, more and more Americans seem willing to give Obamacare a chance.

Also interesting is that you and Underpope David Epps have whined about how nobody done read the legislation....well, the legislation has been the law of the land for several months now, and has had near every sentence vetted for information that could be damaging to the Obama administration by a hellish consortium of Fox News, hate radio and the like....and the only thing these weasels could find was this minor 1099 issue, which both Republicans and Democrats admit need to be fixed.

As the noted philosophers of Twisted Sister once intoned: "If that's your best, your best won't do".

We beat you. Your best hope is a judicial activist Hail Mary.

PTC Observer
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Bacon - Not

Bacon, better not get your hopes up too much on this, it is not over.

Once Mr. O is out of office in 2012, his "signature" will be wiped clean.

;-)

Chris P. Bacon
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Hey Petey C, what's your take on this?

This is a bit interesting...

Quote:

Incoming Republican Majority Leader Eric Cantor has said that Republicans now want to keep two significant parts of Obamacare: forcing insurance companies to offer coverage for people up to age 26 under their parents' policies, and forcing insurance companies to issue coverage for pre-existing conditions.

LINK

The above two parts of Obamacare are hugely popular in America (if a Republican is pushing for a part of a Democratic plan, you KNOW it's popular!)

Now, I will admit that in the very, very beginning of the health care debate, I was in favor of Cantor's position...gee, why not make a law so that children up to 26 are covered AND pre-existing conditions are covered?

I found out that this position would effectively bankrupt virtually every single insurance company in America.

As I understand it, the only way to implement this law under PAYGO is the following:

  1. Massive govt. subsidies to insurance companies, which would entail major tax hikes and/or huge budget deficits
  2. increasing the insurance coverage pool to spread the risk around (the Heritage.org position from 1994) by requiring ALL Americans to take responsibility for their health care by purchasing health insurance

.
Obviously, Democrats chose the second option. Now Cantor seems to want to change the rules and adopt the first option! Either that, or he seems to want to have the ability to have his cake and eat it too!

PTC Observer
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Bacon - maybe

Maybe he simply wants to bankrupt America a little faster thant the Democrats?

Neither option will work and nearly everyone knows this but you and Eric Cantor.

Georgia Patriot
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RHINO'S

Watch as 2012 approaches how the Rhino's get in line, but you know what, it isn't going to work, we have the memory of Elephants, not Jackasses! RHINO FREE IN 2012! -GP

Courthouserules
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Ga Patriot Congress today

Now that the "show" is over for TV and film, the bargains will be resolved in the smoke-filled (bourbon filled) room.

This was decided mostly some time ago:

The unemployment money will be passed for one more year. Not paid for.
The temporary tax-reductions will be extended one year for millionaires and all.*
*(next year most of the Debt Commission's recommendations will be accomplished)
A continuing budget for the country will be voted in until new session.

Not much more this session.

Next session: (to contend with)
More home foreclosures and bank failures---much more.
More commercial building foreclosures finally--sinking more banks.
Jobs programs will begin to feed the hungry and rent payments instead of continuing all of the unemployment payments. Just a guess at the unemployment percentage (15% IF THEY CHEAT ENOUGH WITH THE NUMBERS).

Feed halls will exist in cities, free cheese and canned stuff and such in neighborhoods.

Every one by then will want to throw out everyone in Washington---especially that President who let all of this happen!!

A third party will emerge again made up of Independents mainly, and a few disgruntled republicans and Palins.

Georgia Patriot
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We Don't Have a Revenue Problem in Washington

But we have one heck of a SPENDING PROBLEM!! I am glad the OBama Tax Increase is not going through. Why should we be punished because of government over-spending? Don't raise taxes until you stop spending!! Stop taking away our freedom! Cut the size of government, everything should be on the table. -GP

Courthouserules
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GA Patriot

I am glad for you that you make over a million dollars income.

Those are the only ones Obama wanted to leave the old tax rate on!

Georgia Patriot
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CHR Not True

The Obama Tax Increase will effect everyone! As far as personally I am semi retired and hope to have enough left after paying taxes to buy food!! But I do have 3 grown children that I do not want to leave this mess to. -GP

Courthouserules
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GA Patriot

Congress committee yesterday voted down a spending solution by Bowles-Simpson!!
That is, they voted not to vote on it.

Expenses are never going down unless it is Social Security, Defense, Education, Welfare.

Georgia Patriot
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Right CHR

Did you read my last sentence, everything must be on the table to get us out of this mess including both military spending and entitlements? Eliminate the department of energy and the department of education and anything else that is a waste of money. Bring the troops home, secure our borders, cut government salaries, stop spending and then raise taxes. Show the american people that you are serious and then they will get behind you and push the wagon out of the ditch! But first STOP SPENDING!! -GP

Chris P. Bacon
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"Stop taking away our fuh-reeeeeedom!"

I've noticed that the phrase "stop taking away our freedom" and "they're taking away our freedom" appears to be a reflexive comment in posts made by the fringe right wing folks here....not unlike a Muslim's rote recitation of "Allah Ackbar" in correspondence.

Someday I hope to understand exactly what specific "freedoms" these poor deluded people think they have lost.

NUK_1
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US-South Korea free trade agreement

Hey! I thought I read here over and over that them there unions already done killed this off, despite the FACT that this opinion was totally wrong in the first place. Now I read that the US and South Korea have an agreement that the auto industry really loves, big business loves, the Chamber of Commerce loves, and the Repubs love. The howling? It's from the unions and about 80 House Dems. BUT WAIT!!!! It can't have happened! Obama getting a much better deal with South Korea than the ridiculous existing one, even though the unions aren't happy?

AtHomeGym
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Nuk & Trade

The deal is only between negotiators and has to be approved by both S. Korean and US Lawmakers.

NUK_1
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AHG: Yes

No problem on the South Korea side and Obama knows enough about history(Clinton) that he'll have no problem with the Repubs and enough Dems to get it passed. Well, unless the Repubs get very stupid but I think even they are waking up a little bit and realizing that sheer hatred of Obama isn't enough. This isn't a much different situation now and when Clinton got stung in the mid-terms and then was able to get passed several major "free trade" agreements over the howls of the far left.

Georgia Patriot
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Who's John Galt?

Your right, "Stop Taking Away Out Freedom" is code that only the poor deluded ones understand, you know, the ones that are "Sticking To Their Bible and Guns". You also have to understand free market economics and that the private sector has to feed the growing government beast. It is time to starve the beast or at least put in on a lower calorie diet. Smaller government and free markets are the only answer and the only hope. -GP

Chris P. Bacon
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Once again...

Please enlighten us with specific freedoms you believe you have lost.

PTC Observer
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Bacon - assuming you

Assuming you actually read things, read this:

The Tyranny of Good Intentions: How Prosecutors and Bureaucrats Are Trampling the Constitution in the Name of Justice by Paul Roberts

This should help you understand how our Freedoms are being abridged each and every day.

However my belief is that your ideas are so set by your emotions that you will not get this book and you will not in fact read it.

Georgia Patriot
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Not ignoring You

It is just too much to type. If you really are that clueless, Go Google Lost Freedoms. -GP

Ninja Guy
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Did That, Nothing There

GP, I Googled lost freedoms as you suggested. Nothing concrete there. Seems other people are having as hard a time as you coming up with something.

MYTMITE
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GP, I wonder how many know who John Gault (Galt?) is?

I am sure CHR would have a few paragraphs to say about it and in the end say nothing as usual--but I wonder just how many have read the book. Should be required reading.

Georgia Patriot
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ATLAS SHRUGGED

Probably the greatest book of our time. I read it over 30 years ago and still remember the storyline. It is scary to be living it though. Here is another good book that everyone should also read: http://www.amazon.com/Dreams-Come-Due-Government-Economics/dp/0671611593 -GP

Observerofu
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5000 year leap by W. Cleon Skousen

another MUST read.

PTC Observer
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Observerofu on 5000 year leap

Excellent read.

Bacon have you read this, or are you rushing out to get the last book I recommended?

We don't want to confuse you with too many facts. Besides John Galt's speech requires you to think too much.

Chris P. Bacon
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Hello Petey, re:Skousen

No, I don't read much fiction, and Skousen's feeble Mormon revisionism doesn't really appeal to me. I understand the book is an interesting hash of half-truths, out-of-context quotes and lots of pretty pictures, so I can understand the appeal of the book to people like our buddy NotLindsey.

Cleon Skousen famously lost most of his credibility when he declared Dwight Eisenhower to be a Communist. J. Edgar Hoover said he was a kook. I'm thinking he might have been NotLindsey's birth father.

PTC Observer
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Bacon - LOL

You mean the same J Edgar Hoover that wore red dresses?!

So, I suppose you are not open to reading anything that attacks your belief system?

I guess you are a prisioner of your world, do you have any books that you would recommend that I read that supports your philosophy?? I have already read Mein Kampf and The Communist Manifesto. Anything else?

Courthouserules
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MtGalt & GP

Oh, we have had our John Gaults'--or so idealists think; there was Reagan and FDR and of course JFK.

The problem is such an ideal person as Gault today could not convince Industrialists to hold out on the government......we don't got no Industrialists!
Anyway Wikileaks would snitch on his ideas before he could implement them!
If he existed! I fear not. The TEAS think one does.

Georgia Patriot
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Reagan and FDR?

FDR was a HUGE government expanding progressive. -GP

Courthouserules
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GP FDR

I lived through most of FDRs four terms until he died.
Believe me he was worshipped by more than a majority! Just different folks than Reagan had.

PTC Observer
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FDR - GP

The worst President since Lincoln.....Mr. Obama can't hold a candle to these two.

Ninja Guy
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GP, Didn't You Serve the Beast In Nam?

GP, didn't you serve that very beast in Nam? Didn't Uncle Sam raid other people's pockets to pay your salary, provide you with a fine automatic weapon, food, shelter, medical care, and other goodies? Seems you are talking out of both side of your mouth.

Georgia Patriot
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I Proudly Served

But unlike Richard Blumenthal I never said I served "In" Vietnam, only "During" Vietnan http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/18/nyregion/18blumenthal.html I want that to be very clear. As far as nation building I am against that, it doesn't work, we need to take care of our house. I also took an oath that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, the same constitution that is being ignored(attacked?) today. -GP

Ninja Guy
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What Is Under Attack?

Sorry, during Nam, not in Nam. You've lost me on the Constitution being attacked. How's that again?

Georgia Patriot
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The Constitution

is attacked when it is ignored and unconstitutional laws or actions are performed. Read it,Study it. Great document even today. -GP

Ninja Guy
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Still Scratching My Head GP

GP, can you name one unconstitutional law that was passed recently and enlighten us as to why it is unconstitutional?

PTC Observer
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Ninja - I'll help GP out here

Here is one very large bill that had very little debate, virtually no one read it and endangers your ability and rights to post to this board.

HR 3162 RDS, 107th CONGRESS, 1st Session, H. R. 3162
IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES, October 24, 2001

http://epic.org/privacy/terrorism/hr3162.html

Let me know if you have questions on this very complex piece of garbage and why parts of it are clearly unconstitutional.

Ninja Guy
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Yes, Please Help!

Yes, please pick out one small part and explain to us why it is unconstitutional. It's a bill though, not a law, right?

PTC Observer
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Ninji - no I won't

read the bill for you, I want you to do that. Think that this bill like the Healthcare bill were 2,200 pages long and were not read by the people that voted for them.

Bills become law following their passage through the House and Senate and following their signature by the President.

The Patriot Act passed both houses in late 2001 and was signed by President Bush the following year.

To find a law unconstitutional requires years in the court system but in the meantime all of us are subject to unconstitutional laws. Including you and Bacon. Surely you don't believe that all laws passed by Congress are constitutional do you?

Ultimately, provisions of the Patriot Act and the Healthcare Law will be found to be unconstitutional. Some provisions of the Patriot Act have already been found indefensible enough not to renew them.

Georgia Patriot
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Your Questions Are Diversion Tactics!

You really understand, apparently you just like to Make me type! The largest recent unconstitutional laws are the Healthcare Law and The Patriot Act. Please recite the specific area of the constitution that allow either one. -GP

Chris P. Bacon
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Burden of proof

Mr. H8riot, the burden of proof is on you to prove that the recent health care legislation is unconstitutional.

You may be of the opinion that it is not constitutional, two federal judges so far have disagreed with your opinion, having thrown out constitutional challenges to the law.

These lawsuits are currently being appealed in federal appeals court.

You seem to have a rather unique definition of the word "unconstitutional", attempting to define it as "laws I do not like".

PTC Observer
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Bacon - It is true

It is true that we may believe that this law is unconstitutional, and only the courts can decide.

Unfortunely, since John Marshall the Supreme Court has paid very little attention to the Constitution. They have "shaped" the Constitution to achieve political aims and purposes.

John Marshall was a Whig and set about helping establish Henry Clay's American System by shaping the rulings of the court to meet this vision.

I am afraid that GP and others put too much confidence in our "Supreme" Court and democracy in general.

Ninja Guy
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Three Branches of Government

Uh, I think its the one that sets up three branches of government, with the congress passing laws, the president either signing them or vetoing them, and the supreme court ruling on constitutionality. Do you not agree that is the way the system works or is supposed to work?

PTC Observer
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3 Branches

Yes, I understand the process I think. It's the part about "passing laws" can you go through that in a little more detail? How does this work?

You know, tell me a little more about how the Congress writes the laws and knows what they are voting for (or against) before they vote.

You can also explain how we seem to be caught up in endless wars without Congress declaring them. Give me a little insight into this while you're at it.

Then you can explain a little about how the "supremes" pass on things like elections, you know presidential elections? Yea, give me a little primer on this too.

While you are at it you can enlighten me on how the Congress can continue to operate the government on money they don't have. Just explain where all that money comes from, you know the money that they print out of thin air.

Finally, you can give me a little insight into why the government has greater moral authority over its citizens than the citizens themselves. After all they are always right when they take money from someone and give it to someone else. Right?

Finished your readings yet?

Ninja Guy
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Government 101 for PTC O

Answers to Your Questions

PTCO: Yes, I understand the process I think. It's the part about "passing laws" can you go through that in a little more detail? How does this work?

Ninja: A congressman or senator or two sponsors a bill, written by a bunch of lawyers. It goes to committee. If it makes it out of committee, it goes to the floor for a full vote. If passed, it goes to the other side of congress, to committee as well. They make some changes, send it back to the other side of congress. They talk about it for a while, and try to reach a consensus. If they can, it goes back to the full floor of both the House of Reps and Senate for votes. Something like that.

PTCO: You know, tell me a little more about how the Congress writes the laws and knows what they are voting for (or against) before they vote.

Ninja: A bunch of staff lawyers write the bills, with input from lobbyists and citizen groups. Congress people rely on their staff to tell them what is in the bills.

PTCO: You can also explain how we seem to be caught up in endless wars without Congress declaring them. Give me a little insight into this while you're at it.

Ninja: Congress passes some resolutions against some other group or nation. Then they pass some more resolutions providing funds to fund the war. The president signs what needs to be signed for the treasury department to release the funds to the defense department. The Joint Chiefs and generals send people off to fight. People sign up to go fight because they believe in the cause or because they need a job, money for college, like fighting or other such reasons.

PTCO: Then you can explain a little about how the "supremes" pass on things like elections, you know presidential elections? Yea, give me a little primer on this too.

Ninja: I have not idea what you mean here. What do you mean by 'pass' on presidential elections.

PTCO: While you are at it you can enlighten me on how the Congress can continue to operate the government on money they don't have. Just explain where all that money comes from, you know the money that they print out of thin air.

Ninja: The Treasury Department issues treasury bills. Investors buy them. The Treasury gets the money, uses it for a while, and pays pays interest to the investors. They refinance these treasury bills every so often

PTCO: Finally, you can give me a little insight into why the government has greater moral authority over its citizens than the citizens themselves. After all they are always right when they take money from someone and give it to someone else. Right?

Ninja: What do you mean by moral authority? I don't know what you are driving at here. Can you give me a specific example of the government taking money from someone and giving it to someone else so I will know exactly what you are aiming at? I don't know how the government could tax people and NOT give the money to someone else. What are they going to do--levy taxes and not spend it on anything?

PTCO: Finished your readings yet?
What readings are you referring to? I read a lot--I doubt I will ever be done...Any specific readings in mind?

Courthouserules
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GP

Then why do we change it often and still want a lot changed? (Conserves do)

Courthouserules
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NINJA: attacks!

I can tell you what they think:

Must be "red-blooded American (whatever that is)
Must be Christian.
Must mingle Bible with how laws are interpreted.
Must be patriotic (whatever...)
Must want to build a wall with Mexico.
Must want to send 30-40 million Mexicans home now,
Want taxes lowered forever and ever.
Must interfere with a woman and her doctor.
Must attend rallies about doctors, Welfare, flags, motorcycles, and Mosques.
Must like and listen to Limbaugh, Hannity, FOX, O'Reilly, one blond and one dark witch, and the other religious nut who had a DC rally.
Do not want to control the out of control health costs in any way.
Want to keep fighting the wars until Islam is defeated and Texans are in charge there.
Want to eliminate Social Security immediately, and Medicare, and Medicaid.
Want to limit Federal help or intervention in Education. Just send money.
Do not want banks or wall street controlled in any fashion. Put your money under the mattress or in coffee cans buried.

Want to drill for all the oil there is.
Want to quit this stupid worrying about pollution.
Want to stop the silly worrying about ice melting.
Want to point ICBMs in all directions and constantly threaten other countries.
As soon as possible become Isolationists.

Ninja Guy
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Ours Is But To Reason Why

that is what they think. You have got what they think figured out, but not why. BTW, do you resemble Yoda in appearance as well as in insight/speech patterns? The force must be strong with you to see into the think heads of GP and others.

Georgia Patriot
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The Libertarian Deathstar

will be shining the light of truth on the Libtard planet Alderaan, bits and pieces...bits and pieces.....learn you must. -GP

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Another Assault On Freedom

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/12/realtime/ They come almost daily, you would have to be delusional to NOT see/understand it. -GP

PTC Observer
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GP - Legal

All perfectly legal under the Patriot's Act, sorry pal.

If you need any questions answered about this, Ninji is making his way through this pile of garbage legislation. He will shortly be finished with the 2,000+ pages soon and can defend the baseless accusations that this law is unconstitutional.

Oh, sorry it's not unconstitutional until it is determined by the court that it is unconstitutional. Now don't go on and use your opinion (and logic) that it is unconstitutional in the meantime. Just accept the fact it is the law.

Bacon certainly does, he has full faith and confidence in the wisdom of our government and its higher moral authority over all of us.

Georgia Patriot
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Now the Internet

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/dec/2/wave-goodbye-to-internet-... but just move along, nothing to look at here folks. The assault on freedom continues. "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin
-GP

Georgia Patriot
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Bacon and Ninja

Strangely silent, you two must not read the news. Should I start the daily Assault on Freedom List for the impaired here? You know, like headline news(HLN) we could have DLN, (Delusional Libtard News). -GP

Ninja Guy
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Lagging Again GP

GP, bite the bullet and upgrade that internet connection of yours. I already wrote a bunch this AM replying to you and PTC O. As for Bacon, I think he is still at Starbucks sipping espresso, reading the NY Times, and generally enjoying life.

Georgia Patriot
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Another Assault on Freedom

Move along folks, Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/05/world/05restrict.html?_r=1&hp -GP

Ninja Guy
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Eighth Amendment for GP

To answer one of your earlier questions, seems the 8th Amendment of the US constitution gives Congress the power:

To borrow money on the credit of the United States.

Ninja Guy
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18th Amendment for GP

Hey GP, here's a head scratcher for ye. Was the 18th amendment to the Constitution constitutional. It went through the amendment process as provided in the Constitution, yet it took away certain rights. Hmm, something to ponder ain't it....

PTC Observer
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18th Ninja

and your point is what?

Ninja Guy
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My Point Is

to get you and GP to think a bit instead of just posting links and the same tired stuff. Can you or GP (or are you and GP one and the same?) answer the question in five lines or less?

PTC Observer
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What's the question

????

PTC Observer
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8th Amendment Ninja

"Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."

Want to try again? Study hard.

Ninja Guy
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Oops My Bad Section 8 Not Amendment 8

Sorry, I was cleaning my AK47 and typing at the same time. I meant to write Section 8 not Amendment 8.

PTC Observer
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Ninja - appropriate

that you are cleaning an AK47, weapon of choice of most communists.

You are correct on Article 1, Section 8.

Georgia Patriot
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Congress NOT THE FEDERAL RESERVE

FED= Unconstitutional. -GP

Ninja Guy
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Congress NOT THE DEPT. Of DEFENSE

Army=Unconstitutional. -NG

Is that your logic. Congress can't create departments? Seems you have some re-reading to do GP.

Also, if you think the Constitution is under such attack, why aren't you up in DC or somewhere else acting on your oath to defend it rather than sitting home blogging all day? You equate blogging with defending? You're taking the easy way out.

Georgia Patriot
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The Constitution

specifically calls for congress to control the money supply, not the fed. the constitution also mentions armies/navy. You think I am only active politically here? Think again. And yes, the Oath Stands, more than you know. -GP

Chris P. Bacon
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Whither the Air Force?

Gotta agree with you there, h8riot, the Constitution specifically authorizes an Army and a Navy.

It doesn't, however, authorize a Marine Corps, an Air Force, an FBI or a CIA.

As a "tenther", do you feel that these extra-constitutional entities should be abolished?

Ninja Guy
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My Point Exactly

I used the army to drive home the point. Yes, the Consty authorizes the establishment of armies, but seemingly not for more than two years at a time. My larger point is, as Bacon pointed out, that Congress has the power to create agencies to do its bidding, such as those Bacon pointed out.

Ninja Guy
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Assault On My Potatoes

I saw the article about credit card tracking. What has got your worried there? Your bank already knows what you are using your card for. The checkout person at the store sees exactly what you are buying. The on-line company knows exactly what you are buying with your credit card. The credit bureau tracks your spending and debt limits and all kinds of other stuff as well.

We live in the information age GP. Take a look forward for once and not backward. You'll be glad you did. Hey, maybe you should take a trip to Disney World. Its pretty fun and there are lots of smiling people there, and the weather is nice too. It might help get your mind in a better spot. Otherwise, I'm afraid we are going to read about you in the Citizen for stuffing the Christmas tree up the chimney on Christmas Eve and making Cindy Lou Who cry.

Or, not to tell you where to live, but there are a bunch of people out in Idaho and other such places that live totally off documentation. No drivers licences, car tags, gun permits, public schooling or anything.

Totally free, except for those pesky satellite images beamed back to the National Security Agency.

Georgia Patriot
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Another Devious Assault on Freedom by Washington

You can't win this Nunchuck, there is an endless assault on freedom coming from the "darkside", I can provide one everytime you post until... light you see. http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/dec/03/wikileaks-us-manipulat... -GP

AtHomeGym
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Ninja & Imagery

Ya oughta stick to what you know about--satellite imagery is NOT downlinked to NSA!

Ninja Guy
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More Imagery

Yes, I know. The images go to that top secret bureau, the name of which I forgot. I thought it used to be part of the NSA, and was spun off, so I used the NSA to make my point about government snooping and how you can't get away from it even if you want to, Constitution or not. Perhaps you can tell us the correct name of the satellite imaging bureau. I'm sure its in the public domain somewhere, or at least on Wikileaks.

AtHomeGym
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Ninja & Imagery II

Try NGA--National Geospatial-Intelligency Agency. See you don't need wikileaks--as long as it's not classified, I'll tell you. Now, if we talk history, it would be NIMA, National Imagery & Mapping Agency and NRO, National Reconnaissance Office. The initials NRO USED TO BE Secret but they declassified it yrs ago.

Ninja Guy
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Thanks AHG

Thanks for the info. National Imagery & Mapping Agency is the one I remember. Didn't know about the name change to NGA. GP, you get that? Its the NGA, that the NSA, that has the pics of you at all the Tea Party rallies.

Robert W. Morgan
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Cantor pandering to gays

What else can it be? Young, irresponsible adults staying on their parent's policy up to age 26 and a free pass for pre-existing conditions? Gay pandering by a leading Republican. He's trying to pull the gays (who have chosen that lifestyle) out of the Dem's big tent and into the gay's natural place - the Republican Party. Naturally this will annoy some of the whacko right-winger religous nuts who have traditionally been Republicans, but they can work on converting the gay's to a straight lifestyle - or just leave and form a third party.

Courthouserules
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Kind of Odd!

If carrying one's kids on health care through college and until a job is found with insurance, and not carrying people who have had a sickness before is going to break all of the insurance companies, then there must be an awfully lot of people needing insurance right now since neither is now covered.

Why do some people NOT want others to have insurance? We will pay for their treatment anyway at emergency rooms.

How are you gonna force someone under 26 to pay for insurance now anyway? How does one decide NOT to have a previous sickness?

Sheer ignorance and selfishness.

AtHomeGym
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Courthouse & Health Care Legislation

Well, it's really Heallthcare INSURANCE Legislation--would make lots of sense to me if they would just go through and repeal all the 'non-healthcare' mandates. And yes, thaat means SOMEONE would have to acrually READ the damn thing!

Courthouserules
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GYM

Is that a yes, or a no, or a maybe if?

Observerofu
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Obviously we listen to different news stations

I hear the repeal speech often.

In fact heard it from ABC news On the 10th last month.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/HealthCare/health-care-repeal-republican-...

And just a couple of days ago from US News.

http://politics.usnews.com/news/articles/2010/12/02/gop-pushes-for-healt...

It is evidently clear to all that until Obama leaves office a repeal is not on the horizon. However de-funding some of the more onerous parts is a distinct possibility.

"Overall, 58% favor repeal and 37% are opposed. From the beginning, those who favor repeal feel more strongly about it. Forty-six percent (46%) Strongly Favor repeal and 29% are Strongly Opposed."
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/h...

"Among mid-term voters, a majority (56%) would like to see the law repealed entirely or in part. Voters split sharply along partisan lines. Two-thirds of those who voted for Democratic candidates want the law expanded or left as is, while and eight in 10 of those who voted Republican support full or partial repeal. "

http://www.kff.org//kaiserpolls/8120.cfm

Cyclist
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Well another lower federal court...

ruled against the mandated insurance scheme. Bring on the Supremes....

Courthouserules
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cyclist

If I understand it correctly, when the Social Security System was made law in the 30s, there were scores of lawsuits to stop it. None worked. Just something for the lawyers to do.
All that has been thought out and debated in private long ago!

Let the government operate and just vote at the elections, won't you?
Just vote in a Republican next time, OK? Won't be much different once the election is over!
Can you say that Hoover, G.W. Bush, Nixon, and others did any better?

We are right now forcing everyone to pay for the emergency room visits people without insurance visit (they have to) so why not have these people arrange for their own and pay what they can?
The insurance companies will pick up millions of new policies!

Fact is, there is little congress and the President can do that will end up being illegal. They pretty much have the authority to manage our country as is necessary to them.

That is why we are a republic.
Can you imagine everyone voting on everything?

Cyclist
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Court,

Fact is, there is little congress and the President can do that will end up being illegal. They pretty much have the authority to manage our country as is necessary to them.

That's why we have the judicial branch.

Observerofu
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Sanity begins to be restored

"(CNN) -- A Virginia federal judge on Monday found a key part of President Barack Obama's sweeping health care reform law unconstitutional, setting the stage for a protracted legal struggle likely to wind up in the Supreme Court."

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/12/13/health.care/index.html?hpt=T2

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