George Soros and the FED set to break our Dollar

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Observerofu
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The Fed is set to print another $500 BILLION to $1 TRILLION more dollars and they are continuing the process to buy out own bonds.

George Soros as he has done to 4 other Country's suggested a devaluation of our money and viola the Fed begins to do it.
Soros has bankrupted several Countries his methods are well documented and he his doing so again. This is how he makes Billions.

Our dollar will be worth 20% less you have $10,000 in the bank it will be worth only $8,000. How do you think people on a fixed income will make out?

Inflation will almost be guaranteed. How much is the question. To see just where this leads you need to look at the Wiemar Republic

Fed to print up $1 Trillion buys Bonds
http://moneynews.com/StreetTalk/George-Soros-China-renminbi/2010/01/28/i...

Soros" Us needs Inflation
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/federal-reserve-print-billions-dollar...

Wiemar Republic
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/commandingheights/shared/minitext/ess_germanhype...

A Little Soros history
http://www.unitypublishing.com/Government/DeptSoveriegn.htm

We are headed to a watershed moment. Is it the Wiemar moment or is it the beginning of the end?

Observerofu
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Obama to take trip to experience " the lights"

Obama said on Wednesday that "he gets it" does he really?

He is traveling to India Saturday for a 2 week vacation. Going with him are a number of people. India press said up to 3000, 60 armored suburbans, 2 spec-ops Air Force Jets, 4 747's and 34 Warships.

The price tag is hotly disputed again India press is reporting $2 Billion dollars. The Whitehouse says it is wildly inaccurate but will not give the actual price tag.

The Taj Mahal Hotel in Mumbai has reported that up to 800 rooms have been reserved again this is somewhat fuzzy.

My question is why is he going? India's version of the Chamber of Commerce has stated absolutely nothing will come out of this visit. There will be no trade agreements and the US is not going to advocate India as a permanent member to the UN.

This place is hotbed for Terrorist. Attacks have taken place that killed over a hundred people just last year there at the very hotel where Obama is allegedly to stay.

This trip was planned and rescheduled twice before. How has the advance team's planning been changed? Has it? Given this much time for a Presidents visit it is not inconceivable that his scheduled has been leaked and those that wish to strike at America can prepare.

So the question begs to be asked. Why? Why go? Why now? Why take 3 Battle-groups with you? What is happening in India that we don't know? Why after a major loss to your party where the American people have told you in no uncertain terms to stop spending our money does he go and spend this much money for a "Vacation"? A working Vacation granted but one which will render nothing in return?

Courthouserules
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This comment prompts another poem!

Bland

Ev'ry time I come to town
The boys keep kickin' my dog aroun';
Makes no difference if he is a houn',
They gotta quit kickin my dawg aroun'.

They tied a can to old jim's tail;
An' run him a-past the county jail;
That just naturally made us sore.
Lem, he cussed an' Bill he swore.

Ev'ry time I come to town
The boys keep kickin' my dog aroun';
Makes no difference if he is a houn',
They gotta quit kickin my dawg aroun'.

Courthouserules
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Aint no relative of mine (avatar)

I spect the President though India would be more fun than Crawford, Texas (now abandoned) or the Maine Mansion, (manned all of the time) or the Texas Chateau! (Mexicans run the place).

Observerofu
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Quantitative Easing-Soros plan for a managed decline

The dollar is losing it's value and prices are rising.

Loaf of wheat bread may soon cost $23 due to skyrocketing food price inflation.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2623570/posts

The National Inflation Association a watchdog group has said the next year or two will see a sharp increase in inflationary pricing.

You cannot monetize the debt, print billions of dollars and not expect prices to increase.

Chris P. Bacon
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The weather is getting a bit colder...

The weather is getting a bit colder...the next time you replace your tinfoil hat, make sure to make one with ear flaps.

The Wedge
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I am curious

what aspect of the statement above do you disgree? Did the Fed not montize debt within the past week? Is there no reprecussion for monetizing debt? If not, let's monetize all of the debt. What say you?

and you tag line is just as hateful as you claim they are. No different than saying Liberals embrace Pediphiles because of the relations of certain far left groups. Keep that tag up and I may be forced to do likewise

Observerofu
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Wedge - bacon is a soros fan

I guess anyone that can crash the economies of 6 Country's is a great progressive.
He owns Media Matters and now the Huffington post is being funded by him. Bacons major source of info comes from the Huff and Puff. So naturally he feels attacked if Soros activities are exposed.

Soros is a cancer in America. He is orchestrating the decline in the dollar.

Inflation is on the way. The question is rather it will be a slow rise or a Wiemar/Zimbabwe rise.

btw- On the tagline he/she can't help themselves. The often misquoted line in Hamlet: "The lady doth protest too much, methinks" works well for bacon.

Psychologist have often said those that ardently accuse others of an act or most often guilty themselves. Bacon is just letting us see into their closet is all.

Ninja Guy
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Wedgie

Sure, the Fed is monetizing the debt, but only for foreign investors who have to exchange proceeds from maturing treasury bonds into foreign currencies that have appreciated against the dollar. Domestic US investors should be little affected by the Fed's bond buying, except for lower re-investment yields caused by bond prices being bid up. Overall, the Fed's action should actually help US residents (most of which have no foreign currency exposure) as it is aimed a preventing deflation. With the US economy tilting toward deflation, quantitative easing (ie, pumping money into the banking system) conducted through bond purchases is unlikely to trigger inflation anytime soon. Now, you could argue from the Austrian perspective that deflation is the cure rather than the disease. However, in my personal experience and based on my reading of economic history, a wholesale decline in asset prices has never made for a good situation.

Observerofu
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Are you kidding? Ninja.

You have to be. Go study the Wiemar Republic and/or Zimbabwe and come back and tell us how buying our debt and printing BILLIONS of dollars will have no effect.

http://www.economicpopulist.org/content/qe2-binge-inflation-horizon

Ninja Guy
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Pigface on Soros

Pigface, I am no Soros fan. He tries to manipulate the pols, markets, and central banks to benefit his investment positions. That said, the US Fed is now afraid of the US economy falling into deflation ala the Great Depression or similar to the lost decade in Japan. That is why they are pumping up the money supply--inflation is the aim, for now at least. Volker whipped hyper inflation back in the late 70s in good time, and I am confident that the Fed will do the same this go around, if it does emerge at all. Deflation is the worry now, not inflation. Sure, you can argue whether monetary policy should be in the hands of the Fed at all, but Vera Smith covered both sides of that argument in depth long before either of us started blogging. Whatever side you fall on, the Fed isn't going away.

Observerofu
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Obama loses S. Korea trade deal over Unions

A trade deal that Bush worked through and Congress tabled until Obama took office was lost due to Obama's insistence that Unions were protected.

Instead of getting the deal signed and then working out the kinks Democrats and Obama added a provision for Unions that effectively killed the agreement.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6AA11620101111

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTOE6AA06W20101111?pageNumber=2

Chris P. Bacon
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Another day, another NotLindsey lie...
Observerofu wrote:

A trade deal that Bush worked through and Congress tabled until Obama took office was lost due to Obama's insistence that Unions were protected.Instead of getting the deal signed and then working out the kinks Democrats and Obama added a provision for Unions that effectively killed the agreement.http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6AA11620101111v http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTOE6AA06W20101111?pageNumber=2

Interesting how neither link you provided backs up your charge about unions.

The sticking points were tariffs and the fact that South Korea won't accept slaughtered "old beef" imports.

Observerofu
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Bacon you obviously are incapable of reading and comprehending
Chris P. Bacon wrote:

Interesting how neither link you provided backs up your charge about unions.

The sticking points were tariffs and the fact that South Korea won't accept slaughtered "old beef" imports.

You know bacon you just can't help yourself can you?

Facts mean little to you.

This was from the 2nd link:

UPDATE 4-South Korea, U.S. fail to resolve trade deal row

Reuters News
Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:46am EST
AUTOS THE MAIN PROBLEM I guess you didn't read this did you?

The two sides have been working frantically to address U.S. congressional and industry demands for changes to the deal signed in 2007 by the countries' previous administrations.

Two powerful U.S. lawmakers from Michigan, the heart of the U.S. auto industry, said in a joint statement further negotiations would succeed "only if South Korea adopts concrete steps to open its market to U.S. exports."

It does not take a leap of logic to equate Autos with the Unions.

Only you would fail to grasp the obvious.

"Representative Louise Slaughter, who heads the powerful Rules Committee in the outgoing House of Representatives, said she spoke with Obama by telephone to insist that any deal "protects the interests of US workers and opens markets to American goods."

Chris P. Bacon
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Tariffs and Taxes, not Unions

Only a simpleton would believe the word "automobiles" was some sort of insidious code word for "unions".

President Obama went to South Korea to attempt to get their government to rescind their protectionist 8+% tariff and assorted punitive taxes on imported automobiles. He was unsuccessful in doing so.

Unions had nothing to do with this.

PTC Observer
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Right Bacon.....

right. ;-]

Observerofu
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Bacon your ardent defense of Soros and progressivism is noted

but please go ahead and tell us how printing Billions and buying our debt will not cause inflation.

Please go ahead and show us anywhere in history where it has not.

Please show us how this administration is NOT tied to the Unions.

Go ahead show us all how smart you are.

NUK_1
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Nothing I can see about unions either

Where does some of your "news" come from, NotLindsey? I understand not being crazy about unions but this isn't a union issue at all, but rather the exact issue that the US used to do to imported cars in this country.

Observerofu
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Nuk really?

I mean you and bacon have to be the only two people that doesn't know this administration is in the pocket of Trumka and Stern.

When Obama trashed the deal it was over the Automotive market and guarantees for the "Workers". Now granted they didn't say union but anyone with a lick of common sense knows that this is code for union.

You might not think so, but most everyone else knows so.

The AFL-CIO certainly thinks so.

Trumka Praises Obama’s Refusal to Accept ‘Inadequate’ Korea Trade Deal

http://www.unions.org/home/union-blog/2010/11/12/trumka-praises-obama%E2...

Unions challenge Obama on S.Korea deal

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jHTG2jybjawERKpHDoxMw...

"Obama evidently hopes to appease U.S. automakers who think the existing pact does too little to open the South Korean market to American cars, and ranchers who fret about South Korean restrictions on beef imports. Tweaking the pact to accommodate them shouldn't pose an excessive challenge, but it's improbable that U.S. labor unions will ever support the deal — and where organized labor leads, the Democratic Party tends to follow."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/topic/la-ed-korea-20101106,0,3213218.story...

Do I really have to keep doing this? I mean use some freaking common sense people.

NUK_1
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Yeah, really

Yes, you are going to have to "keep doing it" when you post links that have NOTHING to do with the point you are trying to make. I noticed on this follow-up you at least threw out some links that are more relevant, but I still don't see how "automobile industry" somehow is only unions and not company management also. Who benefits if the tariffs are minimized or reduce so American car companies can sell more cars? EVERYBODY, not just unions.

Here's a link from The Hill that mentions that labor union/worker issues weren't even the focus last week......

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/129041-rough-road-ahead-for-o...

"The auto provisions are important to unions, but they also have concerns about the trade deal’s provisions on investment, services and labor rights, none of which were a focus of this week’s negotiations."

Observerofu
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Keep that head buried

Unions do not own this administration. Trumka did not tell Obama to kill the deal.

A Libertarian would use a little common sense here. Apparently we do take all kinds. I give you 3 separate links in their own words about their interest in killing the deal and your own link provides additional evidence of the Union protectionism.

And your point is?

NUK_1
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Here's the point......

"none of which were a focus of this week’s negotiations." I don't know how much clearer that can be: labor issues weren't even bothered with yet. They can't get to the point in negotiations to where pipe-dreams and union fantasies can even be discussed yet.

As long as South Korea protects its auto industry with a 8% tariff and tries to drag in other issues like the aged beef one, it really doesn't matter what the unions in America think about anything.

When there are hundreds of thousands of South Korean cars sold in the US(most without tariffs the last three years) and American automakers cannot gain entry into the South Korean market, that's the problem, not some crap about those evil labor unions that would directly benefit if in fact a decent trade agreement between the US and South Korea can be achieved and US automakers get reasonable access. What Bush did in 2007 on this was a big failure and is an issue that I think even a lot of Repubs would be happy to support Obama on a better trade agreement between the two countries.

Observerofu
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Well many including I disagree

Labor Unions are always the issue with this administration and that's a well documented fact.

The fact that the deal was tabled left out many other businesses that need SK's market.

It is not all about the Automotive Unions after all there are many that needed the deal to go through.

This trip was a expensive failure.

Davids mom
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Not that many Observeru

Interesting - no links here to dispute Nuk. You have to read other than far-right media to get at the truth of this mess. My eye is on the 'nuk' agreement with Russia. To not be able to adequately monitor our 'next door neighbor that we can see from our window' is a dangerous/stupid chance we may take. The TSA distraction and other 'right-wing' arguments take our focus away from the many important aspects of the work that needs to be done in the Congress for the AMERICAN PEOPLE. The Republicans are now losing the 'commitment' of the elected Tea Party congress members. This 'lame duck' Congress had better DO THE WORK FOR THE PEOPLE!! - the party of NO is fast becoming irrelevant.

Observerofu
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Really DM

The Party of NO just kicked the Party of Pelosi's collective butt.

But keep smoking that California gold.

Joe Kawfi
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The party of no

The party of no will save this country from this president who thinks its quite alright to mortgage our childrens and grandchildrens future so that he can implement his idea of a socialist utopia.

NO to printing and borrowing money we cannot pay back
NO to earmark spending
NO to higher taxes
NO, NO, NO!!!

Joe Kawfi
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Another idiotic idea from the White House

White House to put up to 5,000 salad bars in schools

This is another example of the type of idiotic ideas that come from this administration. 5,000 salad bars? Are you freaking kidding me? Just because you set up salad bars, what makes any rational individual think that the little tykes are going to eat it? Is this administration that stupid to think that kids, when presented with a selection of pizza, burgers, or a salad will not pick the pizza and/or burgers? Not to mention the spread of germs as the little ones pick their noses right before the reach ther hand in to grab the tongs to grab something from the bar.

This is what the party of no is needed for - to stop idiotic, wasteful ideas like this one.

carbonunit52
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Well Joe

I personally know of three children that would take advantage of a salad bar option because these children are being raised in a household that does honor to the intellect that the creator bestowed on them. They would not feed school pizza or burgers to their cat, mostly because they like the cat.

Cyclist
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Salad Bars
Joe Kawfi wrote:

Not to mention the spread of germs as the little ones pick their noses right before the reach their hand in to grab the tongs to grab something from the bar.

Which is one reason why I try to avoid them. It wouldn't be so bad if parents would help their kids rather then having those grubby little filthy hands into the food. eewwwwwwww

AtHomeGym
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Hey Cy, problem with salad bars is

you can't walk in and get a double Jack with water back!

Cyclist
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Gym, you're right!!

And according to the clock on the wall it's time for an adult beverage.☺ You know, I suspect CHR$ already had his.

AtHomeGym
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Cy &Attitude Adjustment Time

You may be right about CHRS, because he already admitted to buying a case at a time--or at least made such a claim. However I doubt that any amt of consumption will help him do much except forget what he did the rest of the day--and maybe that's enough! BTW. you have to deal with any of those bad Rolls Royce engines? Helluva story about those Quantas pilots who had to deal with the original explosion. Even as a former occasional right-seat person in a military version of a Beech Twin Bonanza, that gives me shivers!

Courthouserules
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cyclist

I don't go by clocks on the wall as an "excuse" to guzzle!
I just don't guzzle.
Never more than one, and at meals only.

Chris P. Bacon
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Libertarians vs. Tea Party Glibertarians
Observer Bin Laden wrote:

Unions do not own this administration. Trumka did not tell Obama to kill the deal.

A Libertarian would use a little common sense here. Apparently we do take all kinds.

You seem to be laboring under the misperception that you are somehow a "Libertarian".

Let me assure you, you're not.

Nuk and Petey C. Observer are Libertarians.

You are a Libertarian-wannabee, like most of your Tea Party friends. A Glibertarian.

I found this helpful cartoon HERE that points out the differences between real Libertarians and ersatz Tea Party Glibertarians such as yourself. They don't use a lot of big words in this cartoon so there's a chance you'll understand what they're talking about!

Observerofu
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Bacon you always find ways to NOT address the issue

You may think you are the brightest bulb in this pack but most assuredly you are not.

I keep asking and you keep deflecting. Tells me either you don't believe your own rhetoric or you are clueless.

Which is it?

You may not think I am a Libertarian but I believe wholeheartedly you are a Progressive in all their Communist/Socialist glory.

So one more time I will ask you the questions.

1. Does printing BILLIONS of dollars help or hurt the USA? Why?

2. Buying our debt (Monetization) does it help or hurt the USA? Why?

That was the original intent of this series of postings. You scoffed at the NIA so one can assume you disagree with their conclusions.

I asked for your opinion and as of yet all you have done is attack, deflect and denigrate.

Denigrate-defame: to attack somebody's character or reputation

In case the big words confuse you.

Georgia Patriot
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Ever Notice

how the socialist/marxist's resort to personal attacks when they are losing the battle on ideas? More proof we are winning: http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/129207-senate-gop-leader-mcconnell-... I would not worry, stay the course, there are still more of us than them that love this country and are beginning to take it back. -GP

scribbler
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OBSERVER: Merely Symptomatic...
observerofu wrote:

I keep asking and you keep deflecting.

OOU...
It's the "liberal way"-- systemic /pandemic /epidemic....
---among that population...

observerofu wrote:

Tells me either you don't believe your own rhetoric or you are clueless.

You may be onto more than just "the symptoms" here....
---just sayin'

Enjoy your day.

Chris P. Bacon
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Quantitative Easing
Observer Bin Laden wrote:

Does printing BILLIONS of dollars help or hurt the USA? Why?

This is a grotesque oversimplification of current monetary policy, put in "gotcha" format, not unlike "Have you stopped beating your wife?"

Simply put, the United States of America is NOT "printing BILLIONS of dollars".

Right now, in America today, there are two indisputable facts:
1. Unemployment remains at very high levels.
2. Inflation is at historically low levels.

People who attended accredited post-secondary institutions will immediately recognize the above two factors as classic triggers for a downward deflationary spiral. Deflation does exist, despite your previous claims to the contrary. A deflationary spiral will cripple an economy just as bad as an inflationary spiral.

If you don't agree with the above facts, I suggest you stop reading now, as there is no hope of meaningful discussion with you.

Deflationary spirals have crippled economies before, such as the United States from 1930-1933 (which triggered the Great Depression, btw) and Japan from approximately 1990 onward.

Traditionally, a central banking authority (in America's case, the Fed) manipulates interest rates in order to prevent a deflationary spiral from occurring.

Unfortunately, this cannot be done when central bank interest rates are at or close to zero.

In order to stimulate inflation to prevent a deflationary spiral, central bank authorities loosen bank reserve requirements to make credit more available. This is called "quantitative easing".

The Fed seems to be pursuing a target inflation rate of 2% per year.

Is this dangerous or fiscally irresponsible? That depends on who you ask. Do you consider a loaded gun by itself to be dangerous or irresponsible?

There is a certain mindset that inflation...any inflation....is bad. These people cannot or will not accept that deflation is equally bad.

Bumper sticker sloganeering works well on message boards and at Tea Partisan rallies. The actual heavy lifting of monetary policy is much more difficult, and doesn't lend itself well to sound bites.

I look forward to your inevitable mischaracterization of my position.

Georgia Patriot
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Monetizing the Debt

because you have spent money you don't have is not the solution to unemployment or the economy. This reminds me of the "we must spend ourselves out of this recession". Basically QE2 or the term quantitive easing is a misnomer. QE2/Monetizing the debt is simply creating money out of thin air to pay your bills. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monetization Each dollar printed makes the one in your pocket worth a little less. It also makes your trade partners angry. The Chinese are calling for a different currency and Germany has called the Fed "clueless" http://usactionnews.com/2010/11/germany-calls-us-fed-clueless-at-g20/ If you or I printed our own money we would be in jail. And can someone please explain why the Fed needs a middle man http://www.quora.com/Why-does-the-Fed-buy-treasury-bonds-through-Goldman... to purchase it's own treasuries? This short video might help some understand: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTUY16CkS-k best quote from the cartoon is near the end: "this is like something from the twilight zone", how true. God help us all. -GP

Chris P. Bacon
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Typical Ga H8riot non-response
Georgia H8riot wrote:

because you have spent money you don't have is not the solution to unemployment or the economy. This reminds me of the "we must spend ourselves out of this recession". Basically QE2 or the term quantitive easing is a misnomer. QE2/Monetizing the debt is simply creating money out of thin air to pay your bills.

You didn't read a damned thing I wrote, and responded with a load of talking points. Since you seem to lack even a basic grasp of economics, I see no benefit in discussing this any further with you.

Feel free to declare "victory".

Georgia Patriot
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Typical Clueless Socialist Response

I read every word of your perversion of reality. When challenged on ideas you resort to personal attacks, this is exactly what is wrong in this country. The people are waking up, and in 2012 we will declare "victory". -GP

Ninja Guy
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Georgia Patriot and the Economy

I agree with you that the Fed is printing money (well, not actual greenbacks as all these bond transactions are done through computerized book entry) to purchase US treasuries. I think I saw figures indicating that the Fed will purchase something like 90% of treasury sales over the next six months or so. So, yes, the Fed is monetizing the debt as you say. The question is why? On this, Bacon is more in the know. Do you think the FOMC just up and decided to monetize the debt one day? No, for the past two years, they have done everything they can to stave off deflation, which is the concern of the majority of the FOMC as evidenced by their recent vote for quantitative easing. The Dallas Fed president is the most vociferous against QE, for all the reasons you have brought up and more. However, if you think the US economy is tilting toward a deflationary spiral as Bacon and I do, then what does the Fed have left in its arsenal? With interest rates at or near zero, the only way to move aggregate demand to the right, or at least keep it from moving sharply to the left, is QE. I liken your argument against QE to this scenario. A jet plane is plunging toward the earth at a steep angle and the pilot is pulling back hard on the stick. Seeing this, you say 'Hey, if you keep pulling back on on that stick like that, the nose is going to pitch up and we may stall.' The pilot's response, 'Well, let me try to keep us from crashing nose first into the ground and meeting certain death first, then let me deal with the stall, which I think I can get us out of more easily than this.' Also, monetizing the debt has historically presented problems when it was done due to political pressure to finance wars and such. In the case in the US this time, there is no political pressure to monetize. Rather, the Fed is going against prevailing political sentiment toward debt reduction. So, will the Fed's current QE lead to inflation. Certainly, it will. the Fed is hoping that is exactly the case. They WANT inflation. A deflationary spiral could last for a decade or more, as during the Great Depression or in the case of Japan for the past 10+ years. Inflation, even hyper inflation can be tamed in a year or so, as evidenced by Volker's actions back in the 70s. So, it seems to me that you and other anti-monetization folk are not really thinking this issue fully through, despite having a basic grasp of monetization and its ill effects. As for complaints by the Germans and Chinese, they are naturally upset because their investments in US treasuries has taken a 20% hit due to the depreciation of the dollar. But, that's the risk of investing in foreign currency-denominated assets.

Georgia Patriot
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I can agree

with your jet plane analogy, it is just that we disagree on who is piloting and crashing the plane into the ground. It is my contention that government is the problem with the economy and no amount of easing will help. I did not ignore Bacon's premise that the fed is attempting to stimulate the economy, that is what they have been trying to do for years by lowering interest rates, there are just no more rabbits in the hat for that trick. So you see, from a business standpoint, I see government as the problem and you see governement as having the solution. We will just have to disagree. Oh, and did anyone watch the cartoon link at the end? IMHO, it pretty much says it all. -GP

Ninja Guy
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Who's Piloting the Plane

Since the Fed is in charge of the money supply, they caused the problem by enabling easy credit for real estate speculation. That is also why they are the only ones that can get us out now. Like it or not, the Fed is in charge of the money supply, and that isn't going to change any time soon.

By the way, do you have issues with the government running the military? Or, would you like to see the government step out of that role as well? Just curious...

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Defense of our Country

is Constitutional and as a veteran I have no problem with that. Service men and women are very underpaid, IMO. The Fed however is unconstitutional and should be audited and brought under congressional oversight. I also do not agree with the premise that the Feds easy credit caused the real estate collapse, pressure from congress on banks/lenders to make loans that should not have been made http://www.federalreserve.gov/dcca/cra/ along with dishonest investment firms bundling subprime mortgages caused that collapse. I also predict monetizing the debt will have more negative repercussions worldwide. -GP

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Bacon….Now that was not too hard was it?

At least you attempted to answer the crux of the issue instead of your usual obfuscation and misdirection.

First I have never said we are not in a deflation spiral nor have I ever pontificated on the issue that it is good or for that matter bad for the USA. So let me set the record straight once again for you.

Second-You never actually answered the question is Monetizing our debt a good or bad thing?
You said that the Fed is not actually printing money. Technically you are correct we are using Federal Reserves to buy the bonds that China did not purchase. NY Fed Bill Dudley correctly said that QE is not “printing money” Mr. Dudley also proved that the Fed has no clue what is driving the recession and cannot figure out our current pathos.
He like Bernanke believes that the Money multiplier still holds validity. Basically this holds that Banks received reserves and essentially leverages them up and economic activity picks up and inflation ensues.
This from Warren Mosler:
“The textbook money multiplier model predicts that money growth and bank lending should have soared along with reserves, stimulating economic activity and boosting inflation. The Fed study concluded that “if the level of reserves is expected to have an impact on the economy, it seems unlikely that a standard multiplier story will explain the effect.”
That not only repudiates the textbook money multiplier model but also raises lots of questions about the goal of the Fed’s quantitative easing policies.”
The sad thing is there are people in the Fed that know this, that understand this but here we are implementing policy that many of them know will not work.
QE will fail and the Fed will continue herding cats.

Now as to rampant inflation. A secret Wal-Mart report show inflation already is here.
http://www.blanchardonline.com/investing-news-blog/econ.php?article=1424
“ new pricing survey of products sold at the world's largest retailer showed a 0.6 percent price increase in just the last two months, according to MKM Partners. At that rate, prices would be close to four percent higher a year from now, double the Fed's mandate.”

“On November 3, the Fed announced its much-anticipated purchase of $600 billion in Treasury securities. An effort to keep market rates low since the central bank's benchmark rate is already at zero. The Federal Open Market Committee's statement said, "Currently, the unemployment rate is elevated, and measures of underlying inflation are somewhat low, relative to levels that the Committee judges to be consistent, over the longer run, with its dual mandate."

But since that statement, interest rates have actually gone up, backfiring on a Fed chief who wants his quantitative easing to spark inflation of 2 percent annually. A moderate amount of inflation would be considered good for the economy. The problem is that inflation is already running well above a healthy level, investors said, Bernanke is just not looking in the right place, like a Walmart.”

The problem is deeper then this administration understands. Could there be a QE3 or 4? Well the answer is yes there could be. Since inflation has already reached levels beyond Bernanke’s comfort zone and is likely to rise further then what is to stop additional purchasing and a further devaluing of our dollar.
“Dallas Fed Chief: The Fed Is Monetizing The Nation's Debt For The Next 8 Months

http://www.businessinsider.com/dalls-fed-chief-fisher-debt-monetization-2010-11#ixzz15Uwl0AM3”

“Dallas Fed Chief Richard Fisher, is speaking out today, warning of the impact of cash that's not being lent out, and what he sees is debt monetiziation -- the Federal Reserve financing the government's spending directly.
What's really interesting though, in his speech, is his call on Congress to do more to boost demand, arguing that there's no way the Fed can right the ship on its own.”

The one 800 pound gorilla in the house is the Chinese. They are upping the ante and pushing our potential inflation bubble further. They are increasing their Mfg workers pay be as much as 30% this in turn will increase the cost of dollar per dollar exports to the US.

Sources:
http://www.businessinsider.com/rampant-inflation-2011-the-monetary-base-...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124458888993599879.html

http://www.cfodailynews.com/ask-the-economist-is-inflation-or-deflation-...

http://seekingalpha.com/article/237144-ny-fed-president-qe-is-not-money-...

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Still observing Observerofu
Quote:

Tells me either you don't believe your own rhetoric or you are clueless.

Sort of like: 'Was yesterday the last time you beat your wife?'

Really easy to answer. You feel you know the answers to 1 and 2. When you don't like the answers - you are outstanding at denigrating. (Look at your first sentence) He addressed it; you don't agree; thanks for your input.

Observerofu
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Really DM

You want to go there.

I suppose you completely missed the fact the bacon is calling me Observer Bin Laden??

Or as you did question my educational status?

Or attack (verbally) my family be calling my daughter a "Crack Whore"?

Your selective outrage is noted.

hutch866
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Observer

The phrase is "situational outrage". If you want to see all of Bacon's incarnations, put that phrase into the archives and see how long ol' sniffinBacon has been using it. Funny, he changes his name but uses the same old tired phrases.

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hutch I have indeed noticed

that bacon apparently has had other pseudonymous identities.

His apparent persistent musings as to my identity has been amusing considering.

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Really Observerofu

NO ONE DEFINES YOU BUT YOU!. You have valid concerns - you can challenge anyone without denigrating them in order to make your point. (This is not easy to do - believe me, I know.)

Observerofu
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DM again your selective outrage is noted

*

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Observer

DM is nothing but an insignificant blowhard. Pay no attention to that wench.

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Joe Kawfi

Another example of outstanding discussion skill on the part of a highly educated and articulate individual.

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"Too Good To Check"

There's an excellent editorial in the NY Times today entitled "Too Good To Check". It details how the lies about President Obama's trip to India spread far and fast around the globe, mostly by folks who really really wanted these lies to be true.

This is what Democrats are up against for the next two years: a Republican party (together with their Tea Party Brownshirt compatriots) who will spread any rumor or lie, no matter how outrageous or uncoupled from reality it may be, in order to make political gain.

You'll note that not one single rightwinger had enough honor to say...even after the fact...."hey, we were wrong".

This is why Democrats must be extra vigilant and call out each and every conservative lie as they occur. Republicans know they cannot win elections based on the strength of their arguments, so they resort to lying about the other side to make their case.

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Americans are so gullible

it was so easy to lie to everyone so much so that they handed the democrats the worse loss since the 1940's.

Keep sipping the kaid. 2012 is next.

btw- just what trade agreements did Obama bring home?

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When leaders won't lead

Didja notice today that not one, not two, but three prominent Republicans turned down committee assignments on the powerful House Appropriations Committee?

Seems they're okay jawboning about the need to cut stuff, but given a chance to actually do something they tuck tail and run.

The three who turned down the committee were Teatard Michelle Bachmann, Teatard Steven King and our own homegrown disaster Lynn Westmoreland.

Jack Kingston now chairs the committee, he jumped from #3 in seniority to chairman...the two ahead of him declined.

Cowardly Republican non-leadership.....get used to it!

p.s. didja see Bachmann redefining "earmarks" today? She considers any "pet project" outside of her district to be an "earmark".

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Bacon

Where did you see that these three turned down appropriations committee assignments?
I would like to read the whole story because it is indeed unusual if totally is all of the story.

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More on George Soros and his God complex

"“It is sort of a disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out,” (The Independent, June 3, 1993)

Messianic Fantasy

“I admit that I have always harbored an exaggerated view of self-importance –to put it bluntly, I fancied myself as some kind of god or an economic reformer like Keynes or, even better, a scientist like Einstein,” (The Alchemy of Finance, George Soros)

According to friend Byron Wien (now with the Blackstone Group), “You must understand he thinks he’s been anointed by God to solve insoluble problems. The proof is that he has been so successful at making so much. He therefore thinks he has a responsibility to give money away,” (Time Magazine, Sept 1, 1997)

“If truth be known, I carried some rather potent messianic fantasies with me from childhood which I felt I had to control, otherwise I might end up in the loony bin. But when I made my way in the world I wanted to indulge myself in my fantasies to the extent that I could afford.”

“THE MAN WHO BROKE THE BANK OF ENGLAND”

“As September 15 wore on, George Soros’s confidence that Britain would pull the pound out of the ERM was growing. It had been Stanley Druckenmiller who had thought the time ripe for making a bet against the sterling. He talked to Soros about doing something. Soros gave him the green light but urged his head trader to bet an even larger sum than Druckenmiller had in mind. And so Druckenmiller, acting for Soros, sold $10 billion worth of sterling… The next morning at 7:00, the phone rang at Soros’s home. It was Stan Druckenmiller with news… While George Soros had slept, he racked a profit $958 million. When Soros’s gains from other positions he took during the ERM crisis were tallied, he racked up close to $2 billion… It was this bet, this single act of placing $10 billion on the fact that Britain would have to devalue the pound, that made George Soros world famous,” (SOROS THE UNAUTHORIZED BIOGRAPHY, pgs 5-6).

Soros has said of this event: “I had no platform, so I deliberately [did] the sterling thing to create a platform. Obviously people care about the man who made a lot of money…my influence has continued to grow and I do have access to,”(Time Magazine, Sept 1, 1997)

In 1997, during the Asian financial crisis, the then Malaysian Prime Minister, Mahathir bin Mohamad, accused him of bringing down the Malaysian currency, the ringgit, through his trading activities. In Thailand he was branded an “economic war criminal” who “sucks the blood from the people”.

SOROS’ CURRENT TIES

SOROS AND PRESIDENT OBAMA

In December 2006, Soros met with presidential hopeful Barack Obama in Soros’ New York office. Soros had previously hosted a fundraiser for Obama during his 2004 campaign for the Senate.

On January 16, 2007, Obama announce the creation of a presidential exploratory committee and within hours Soros sent a contribution of $2,100, the maximum allowable under campaign finance laws.

Days after Obama was elected in November of 2008, Soros said in an interview “I think we need a large stimulus package which will provide funds for state and local government to maintain their budgets – because they are not allowed by the constitution to run a deficit. For such a program to be successful, the federal government would need to provide hundreds of billions of dollars. In addition, another infrastructure program is necessary. In total, the cost would be in the 300 to 600 billion dollar range.” Since then, Congress passed a $787 billion stimulus and Obama very recently introduced a $50 billion plan to improve the country’s transportation program, saying “I want America to have the best infrastructure in the world.”
In that same interview, Soros called for cap & trade: “I think this is a great opportunity to finally deal with global warming and energy dependence. The US needs a cap and trade system with auctioning of licenses for emissions rights. I would use the revenues from these auctions to launch a new, environmentally friendly energy policy. That would be yet another federal program that could help us to overcome the current stagnation.” Since then, Congress has introduced cap & trade legislation. (More info in “going green” section)
Also in that interview, Soros said “In 2010, the Bush tax cuts will expire and we should not extend them.” Since then, Obama expressed his opposition to the Bush tax cuts in an interview with ABC on September 9th: “All those middle class folks who need tax relief hostage right now in order to provide tax breaks for the top two percent wealthiest Americans, who don’t need a tax break, aren’t asking for a tax break. And you know, if we could afford it, it’d be one thing. But we know that’s gonna cost $700 billion over ten years. And so, that is not a smart thing to do for the economy”
Soros is also on board with Obama’s proposals to reform the banking system. In an interview with the BBC: Interviewer: Now President Obama last week announced some quite radical proposals to reform the banking system. He wants them out of what he calls “proprietary trading”, using their capital to speculate on their own account, and also he wants a limit on their size. Are these constructive measures in your view? Soros: Very much so these are the right … it goes in the right direction. In my opinion, it doesn’t actually go far enough because it still leaves the problem of too big to fail. In other words, if you let’s say now again Goldman Sachs gives up its banking license, it becomes then an investment bank …
January 2010,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/davos/8485029.stm

and there is much much more on Soros. This just scratches the surface of the Global Megalomaniac that is Soros.

Observerofu
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Time Magazine agrees Hyper Inflation is a possibility

One problem though they say it will be the fault of Sarah Palin's and the TeaParty.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/time-hyperinflation-will-be-tea-partys-f...

Now unless I missed the elections on November 2nd (and I did not) then neither Sarah or the Teaparty has been making fiscal policy for the last 3+ years. But don't let Time Magazine hear that. I mean why destroy a good story with facts.

Georgia Patriot
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Government Regulations,

taxes and the unions have destroyed our abilty to compete in a "new world order". Out approach to deal with the self inflicted destruction of our country is to print more money, among other things this may lead to a trade war with China: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101112/ap_on_bi_ge/as_economic_summits. Of course with the help of George Soros we will see a "managed decline",his words. A atheistic, manical, dangerous man indeed. God help us all -GP

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Patriot

Almost as bad a man as the one who owns FOX News!! Not quite.

What has purported atheism got to do with economics?

Georgia Patriot
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Would you like an atheist

deciding your future? Not in my America. You can be politically correct all you wish, I will continue to cling to my God and guns. -GP

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Georgia Patriot, regarding atheists...

I'm curious to know why you would have a problem with an atheist in public office?

Many people, including myself, actually look forward to the day when an atheist or humanist can openly run for public office in this country. Your bigotry towards the non-religious really is archaic and unfounded. Statistics have shown that secular countries actually have a higher quality of life: "In reality, the most secular countries-those with the highest proportion of atheists and agnostics-are among the most stable, peaceful, free, wealthy, and healthy societies. And the most religious nations-wherein worship of God is in abundance-are among the most unstable, violent, oppressive, poor, and destitute."

http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=library&page=pzuckerman...

And for those who wrongly believe that atheists and the non-religious are immoral people: atheists, being a moderate proportion of the USA population (about 8-16%) are disproportionately less in the prison populations (0.21%).

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/atheism-rare-among-prison-population (an article by John Loftus, an old friend of Muddle's)

Courthouserules
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GA Patriot: If citizens

How about agnostics? Muslims; Full-blooded Indians; Sikhs; religious Jews; Buddhists; War-locks and witches; Shakers and Quakers; Televangelists; Confucians; Aborigines; Wild Bornean Holy Men; VooDoo Man or woman; Holy Rollers; How about Tom Cruise and John Travolta?

Cyclist
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Court....

I just don't guzzle.
Never more than one, and at meals only.

Funny, I didn't know you are a "Purdue" man. ☺

Gym,

You need stop spreading those stories about CHR$!!!

Courthouserules
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Purdue?

Are you speaking of Sonny Perdue or Purdue University?

I am neither.

I did see today where Sonny Perdue did ensconce his friends and staff into civil service jobs at considerably more money than they were making in their political jobs!

It is called "burrowing in"---they can't be fired now unless they shoot someone on the street in front of 3 witnesses other than other Civil Servants.

I wonder if this sort of thing is what causes such messes as we seem to have in GA and elsewhere?

Any idea how Governor Deal will pay off his millions in debts without selling out all of his real estate?

He surely will be safe now in the car wreck business!

hutch866
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GP

"I will continue to cling to my God and guns. -GP" Long as I don't have to conform to your beliefs, I can live with that, but when someone like Sonny decides I can't even vote on something because it goes against his beliefs, then I have a problem, kind of like the alcohol Sunday sales thingy.

Georgia Patriot
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Hutch
hutch866 wrote:

"I will continue to cling to my God and guns. -GP" Long as I don't have to conform to your beliefs, I can live with that, but when someone like Sonny decides I can't even vote on something because it goes against his beliefs, then I have a problem, kind of like the alcohol Sunday sales thingy.

No problem, I believe God gave man the freedom to chose how to live. As a matter of fact I believe ALL rights come from God (and not from man). Seems like I remember some old document that relates to that, something about being "endowed by the creator". I also believe in devine providence and that God see's all. Each must live their own life as they see fit. -GP

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GA Patriot: Andy Devine?

"Divine" Providence seems odd in a world where man was given the freedom to live as he chooses! If God controls every action and protects his world
at all times, what freedom do we have?

Are you saying God wrote the Constitution, and not man?

I saw a strange fellow today on TV, the guy who discovered DNA and it's functions. He has just created life (not human) from life, in his lab.
He now thinks he can make anything that will become scarce in the future.

Even oil, the little fellows who eat oil, corn, etc.

He says he does not believe in God. Now, or ever.

Courthouserules
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GA Patriot: Andy Devine?

"Divine" Providence seems odd in a world where man was given the freedom to live as he chooses! If God controls every action and protects his world
at all times, what freedom do we have?

Are you saying God wrote the Constitution, and not man?

I saw a strange fellow today on TV, the guy who discovered DNA and it's functions. He has just created life (not human) from life, in his lab.
He now thinks he can make anything that will become scarce in the future.

Even oil, the little fellows who eat oil, corn, etc.

He says he does not believe in God. Now, or ever.

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Question CHR

where does someone who does not believe in God think their rights come from? The founders made their beliefs clear in the Declaration of Independence when they stated that man is "endowed by the Creator". God loves even those who do not chose him. And yes, I believe God is still working divinely in todays world through believers. The world can be saved.Dr. Hugh Ross has an amazing site for someone who may want to learn: http://www.reasons.org/ Here are a few more names of men of faith you might recognize: http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencefaith.html -GP

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GA Patriot

For a Christian to quote the "founders," is indeed odd, I think.
They were mostly Deists with no belief in Jesus.
One can not be a Christian without believing in Christianity! (Christ)
Or if they had been Orthodox Jews, I suppose it would have been OK, they are a special breed.

There are still way too many "Golden Calves," in the world, and TV is full of them. Men who think they have solved the puzzle by getting rich. These jokers have "fallen" so often that they certainly do more harm to Christianity than the good all of them do together!

The "Creator" exists in the mind of man, but the false prophets have nearly made Christianity obsolete. It is best to have "Faith" without the influence of "learned" men in un-organized religion.

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The Truth

I agree with you that there are many false prophets and perversions of the Truth today. For sure there is also an ongoing attempt in our country to rewrite history. If you take time to research the actual historic record, you will find that the evidence is not only overwhelming, but conclusive, that the United States of America was founded by Christian men on Christian principles. There are many references in the private letters of our founders to Christ. John Quincy Adams said, "The highest glory of the American Revolution was, it connected in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity." The founders were definitely Christian for the most part. Do the research, look past the surface and the Marxist "talking points" that proliferate the web, the Truth is still out there for those that seek it. Perhaps 2nd Chronicles 7:14 says it best: "If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land."
Praise God and may God give our country strength and Wisdom to see the Truth. -GP

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GA Patriot

I could care less what these people's religion was, but it certainly was Deism! I just don't understand the quotes about the "founding fathers" being Christians!

Recognized as Deists:

George Washington
Thomasd Paine
James Madison
Thomas Jefferson
Benjamin Franklin
Ethan Allen

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You left out a few founders

Well, maybe more than a few but I will address your list. GEORGE WASHINGTON: While encamped on the banks of a river, Washington was approached by Delaware Indian chiefs who desired that their youth be trained in American schools. In Washington's response, he first told them that "Congress... will look on them as on their own children." That is, we would train their children as if they were our own. He then commended the chiefs for their decision:"You do well to wish to learn our arts and our ways of life and above all, the religion of JESUS CHRIST. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are. Congress will do everything they can to assist you in this wise intention." THOMAS PAINE: Thomas Paine did not sign the Declaration of Independence. He did not even sign the Constitution. He was not a representative in any year of the Continental Congress. So he was not a Founding Father by the strictest sense of the word. The only reason he is EVER mentioned by the websites as a supposed "Founding Father" in the search is that he was a Deist. And of course, that empowers those that echo the "all Founding Fathers were deists" belief. JAMES MADISON: Madison is best explained here:http://ourfoundingtruth.blogspot.com/2007/07/was-james-madison-christian-or-theist.html THOMAS JEFFERSON: Jefferson was not a Christian, as DNA tests have proven he had sex with his slaves and had children by them. He was an intelligent man but he is not a man whose personal life I admire: http://www.adherents.com/people/pj/Thomas_Jefferson.html. BENJAMIN FRANKLIN: Was definitely a deist but also was agnostic on Christ, as a matter of fact on his death-bed he stated he would soon get the answer as to Christ's divinity. ETHAN ALLEN:Diest..... Your list is far from a complete list of the founders and their religion, here is a link to a chart that might help:http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html Another interesting fact is there was not one atheistic founding father. Our country was founded on freedom of religion, with many Christian attributes and with many of the founders believing in Christ, far more than the modern media conveys. http://www.wallbuilders.com/ -GP

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Not Sure Why the link did not work
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GA patriot

I don't think we did a very good job of training the Indians as well as our own children!!!

I'm sorry but this bunch of English traitors had slaves, Franklin laid with scores of French "ladies," and they mostly were wealthy and tried to only marry into wealth.
You don't really want a country based on such privileged people as were these guys and their ladies.
Due to England about ruining the Catholic religion by throwing the Pope out of their religion, we ended up with these stragglers from England. They weren't even very religious.
As do some yet, they sometimes talked a good game.

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Christan founding fathers

Those so very Christian Founding fathers who GA Patriot thinks were determined to establish a Christain nation forgot to mention God or Jesus or the Bible in the U.S. Constitution they wrote.

Just an oversight I guess.

Or maybe they were generally Christian in their private beliefs but were determined to establish a secular government in America given the bad consequences when religion and government were closely intertwined in England.

And there are many Christians today who agree with the Founding Fathers. Keep the Government out of our private religious beliefs and keep religious zealots from using our Government and their twisted view of American history to impose their religious beliefs on the rest of us.

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Stop mischaracterizing!

I never said the founders were determined to establish a Christian nation!! Tell me where you got the opinion you expressed in your first paragraph? Are you trying to invent something in order to demonize me the way the national news media does it? Our country was founded on Christian principles, no doubt. You and I actually agree on the following, you stated: "Or maybe they were generally Christian in their private beliefs but were determined to establish a secular government in America given the bad consequences when religion and government were closely intertwined in England."
The term " secular" meaning apart from. But if you mean "secular humanism", apart from God I will forever disagree. Remember, the first amendment works BOTH ways. Freedom of religion, as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, involves two important components. The first is a prohibition on the "establishment of religion" by government, and the second, ensures that the government allows for the practice of religion. -GP

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Jefferson Wrote His Own Bible

GP, what are these Christian principles that the US was founded on? Can you please enumerate them?

Is freedom of the press a Christian principle? How about counting black people as 3/5 of a people for census purposes? The right to bear arms? The creation of three distinct branches of government? The commerce clause?

Also, did you know the Thomas Jefferson wrote his own version of the bible? From what I can tell, his views on Jesus were a bit different from those of most people, then and now. This is taken from Wikipedia for ease of access, but there is a lot out there about the Jefferson Bible.

From Wikipedia
The Jefferson Bible begins with an account of Jesus’s birth without references to angels, genealogy, or prophecy. Miracles, references to the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus, and Jesus' resurrection are also absent from the Jefferson Bible.[5] It does however include references to Noah's Ark, the Great Flood, the Tribulation, and the Second Coming, as well as Heaven, Hell, and the Devil. The work ends with the words: “Now, in the place where he was crucified, there was a garden; and in the garden a new sepulchre, wherein was never man yet laid. There laid they Jesus. And rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed.” These words correspond to the ending of John 19 in the Bible.

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Ninja - Jefferson

Jefferson did in fact have his own version of the New Testament. It was given to every member of Congress until 1919. Jefferson’s version of the New Testament only includes words that were directly spoken by Jesus. He did not believe that the editorial added by others meaningful nor relevant to God’s word.

If interested the Jefferson version is available through Amazon.

Georgia Patriot
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Ninja

Please tell me where you believe man's right's come from? Do they belong to government to dish out as they see fit? Personally I believe we are "endowed by the Creator" as the Declaration of Independence states. As far as Jefferson, I knew of the Jefferson bible, with what I know of Jefferson's personal life I have no desire to own one. IMO, the Jefferson bible was not divinely inspired as it omits all of the miracles and most importantly the resurrection of my Lord. -GP

Ninja Guy
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Rights, Rights, and Wrongs

GP. Yes, I personally believe that human rights come from the creator. However, I think one could logically derive the same rights we enjoy as Americans without involving a creator in the mix.

The point I and others are trying to make here is that simply believing in God is not the same as being a Christian. Jefferson obviously believed in God, but not in Christ as the savior. That would probably make him a diest, as other bloggers have pointed out.

What were Madison's views on Christ? I don't know. I am sure someone in this forum will know more on this subject.

In any case, it seems that the founders went out of their way NOT to include Christian-specific language, or language specific to any particular religion for that matter, in the nation's key documents.

So, I think you and others are wrong to say that the US was founded on Christian principles. Being guaranteed freedom of religion is a far cry from having a nation based on Christian principles.

Again, I ask. Please enumerate the Christian principles upon which the US was founded.

Georgia Patriot
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Study the Founders

and you will see how much the founding of our nation was influenced by Christian principles. Here are a few quotes from the founding time period:
John Adams:
“ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God." Samuel Adams: "He who made all men hath made the truths necessary to human happiness obvious to all… Our forefathers opened the Bible to all.” and this:
“ Let divines and philosophers, statesmen and patriots, unite their endeavors to renovate the age by impressing the minds of men with the importance of educating their little boys and girls, inculcating in the minds of youth the fear and love of the Deity… and leading them in the study and practice of the exalted virtues of the Christian system.”
John Quincy Adams:
• “Why is it that, next to the birthday of the Savior of the world, your most joyous and most venerated festival returns on this day [the Fourth of July]?" “Is it not that, in the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior? That it forms a leading event in the progress of the Gospel dispensation? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity"?
--1837, at the age of 69, when he delivered a Fourth of July speech at Newburyport, Massachusetts.
Charles Carroll - signer of the Declaration of Independence | Portrait of Charles Carroll:
" Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure...are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments." [Source: To James McHenry on November 4, 1800.]

Benjamin Franklin: | Portrait of Ben Franklin
“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” –Constitutional Convention of 1787 | original manuscript of this speech
Alexander Hamilton:
• Hamilton began work with the Rev. James Bayard to form the Christian Constitutional Society to help spread over the world the two things which Hamilton said made America great:
(1) Christianity
(2) a Constitution formed under Christianity.
“The Christian Constitutional Society, its object is first: The support of the Christian religion. Second: The support of the United States.”

On July 12, 1804 at his death, Hamilton said, “I have a tender reliance on the mercy of the Almighty, through the merits of the Lord Jesus Christ. I am a sinner. I look to Him for mercy; pray for me.”
Patrick Henry:
"Orator of the Revolution."
• This is all the inheritance I can give my dear family. The religion of Christ can give them one which will make them rich indeed.”
—The Last Will and Testament of Patrick Henry

“It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.” [May 1765 Speech to the House of Burgesses]

“The Bible is worth all other books which have ever been printed.”

There is much, much more available to anyone willing to do a little research. Our heritage is under attck, history is being rewritten. I pray that more people will wake up. God Bless America. -GP

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GP
Quote:

and leading them in the study and practice of the exalted virtues of the Christian system.”

Many of our founders supported the Christian system - but these virtues that they exalted are not only found in Christianity. The Golden Rule is considered a 'virtue' in all of the world's leading religions. The Ten Commandments, taught by Moses and Jesus is the basis for most man-made law. By their 'acts' will you know them - not by their 'religion'. Our 'heritage' is under attack - because our acts do not always represent the 'virtues' that this country was founded upon. IT IS NOT EASY BEING A VIRTUOUS CHRISTIAN.

Georgia Patriot
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Agree

The faith of the founders is why we have such an open system to all faiths. I know of no other religion that is as open and allowing to other faiths as Christianity. Christianity should never be forced on anyone, God give us the abilty to discern the truth if we only look. I do however have a problem with revising history, facts are facts. I also believe there is good and evil and there is much evil in todays world. IMHO, today America needs God more than ever, one proof of this is the constant attacks on faith. May God Bless and keep you. -GP

Joe Kawfi
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Good and Evil

The declaration of things as absolutely evil or absolutely good, as sin or virtue, puts liberalism into a horrible position because it's founded on no judgment on anything. As a result, any faith that is seriously practiced or understood is a challenge to the politics that depend on constituencies that would rather not be told that their choices are bad and their lives are not virtuous.

Georgia Patriot
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Like a

Light Shining into darkness John 3:20 -GP

Courthouserules
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NINJA--don't listen to Patriot!

Here are the Christian Principles upon which: (we disagree)

1. The poor have always been with us.
2 They can stay that way as far as we are concerned.
3. Some people are simply born smarter or taught to be smarter.
4. As many as we can keep from getting smart, the easier we will have it.
5. Slaves (workers) can be beaten (punished) cause they are mine.
6. If one dies from beating (Exodus 20-21) then cut off the ear of the owner. (after he or she dies).
7. Voting is a stupid privilege.
8. Best thing to do is fix elections.
9. Government should have no control over bandits in business.
10. Bandits snitched or squealed on should just get 50 million upon resignation.
11. One bomber within a foreign religion makes all of them bombers.
12. People who have babies and want welfare should not get it.
13. Unless they are Caucasian Christians.
14. In spite of the American Indians, we own this land.
15. Mexicans can never own this land--they lost out.

It takes 15 of these to equal 10 from another source!

Observerofu
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Your Christian Principles-You have some?

Wow I am shocked.

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