So, where are the citizens of Fayette County on the issue of "Quran-burning"

43 replies [Last post]
bad_ptc
bad_ptc's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/18/2006

This may or may not be the correct forum for such a post.

What are the opinions of those, that live in Fayette County, on this issue?

Should we condemn or condone this act?

Courthouserules
Courthouserules's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/02/2010
Quaran burning

Well, if it was going on here and all around, I might take the time to see what was needed to be done.
However, with one fruitcake in Florida looking for attention is it.....let Florida handle it....no let Orlando area handle it.

It is pretty obvious his ploy didn't work out well. Surely his own church will shut him out as they did in Germany.

I do hope they don't start burning Bibles in Mecca and Medina though!
(Old and New Testament). Actually, the Bible "thumpers" wear out more than can be printed almost.

Folks, these books are not the Moses tablets from the burning bush!
Not even Joseph Smith's tablets. Not even a Torah! Not even a prayer wheel. Not even a fat Buddha. Not even a headless chicken, nor a lion's liver!

MYTMITE
MYTMITE's picture
Offline
Joined: 02/14/2008
No, I do not believe we should burn or condone the burning of

the Koran(Quran) or any other religious books--in fact I am against burning any books. I think for some misguided (to put it kindly) individual to do such a thing and put our country in jeopardy is outright lunacy. What is to separate us from the ones who do such a thing in the name of their religion?

Courthouserules
Courthouserules's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/02/2010
MyTkor

Could it be the Beeble, bobble, bindle, Bibel--or is it the Boundel?

Quran, I think. There was a Tower of Babel-----everyone spoke a different language! That is how we got into this mess!

Ever heard someone from Northern Maine talking to someone from Lower Mississippi?

normal
normal's picture
Offline
Joined: 08/11/2009
What if he burned the bible

It would never even make the news if he was burning the bible.

Spyglass
Spyglass's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/28/2008
I respect his right to burn whatever he wants..

assuming he OWNS the things he's burning. But that doesn't mean I agree with it.

Courthouserules
Courthouserules's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/02/2010
Spy & Normal?

I did hear this tale yesterday:

A sheik in Saudi Arabia has gathered 3,167 New Testaments and 543 Torahs and Old Testaments and has announced that he will burn them in front of a crowd at Mecca on Christmas day 2010!
We are to ignore this idiot and say nothing and do nothing...Reverend Jones, and Herr Beck. Not worth a third war there! Or here!

PTC Observer
PTC Observer's picture
Online
Joined: 04/23/2007
Spyglass - ownership and faith

The problem is that he doesn't "own" it, 800 million muslims "own" it.

How can you own a book of faith? You may be in possession of the Bible, but you don't own it.

The point in burning the Koran is to strike out at those that have faith in the Koran. That's the only point of this exercise. Why do you think they burn American Flags?

Spyglass
Spyglass's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/28/2008
I stand by my statement..

Burn the flag if you want. Doesn't mean I agree with it. Burn a Bible, I'll grant you the right, in the Land of the Free, doesn't mean I agree with it. It's easy to stick up for something you agree with, try defending something you don't agree with. That's the USA.

PTC Observer
PTC Observer's picture
Online
Joined: 04/23/2007
Spyglass - I did

for four long years, 1966 to 1970 USMC and I know what I was defending.

People like you.

Freedom doesn't mean that you can trample on other religions, just like you can't shout fire in a crowded theater when there is no fire. See Carbonunit's comments below.

Everyone has rights in this country including among others property rights, speech, religion and press it is our responsibility to use them wisely. It's true, you don't have agree with a particular use of these rights, but at some point you can't use the fact that these rights exist as a personal shield for not taking a stand on basic principles. When someone else has their rights abridged, it will eventually lead to your rights being abridged. So stop being a wimp stand for something pal.

NUK_1
NUK_1's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/17/2007
Wow..Mr. Testsoterone, drink some calm-down juice

Saying someone has a "right" to do something in no way condones the exercise of that right. It's actually common sense in the USA (or used to be at least)to take the stand that while one may be totally opposed to something, they understand it may well be another's "right" to do so.

I happen to be opposed to abortion. The law says that in most places and cases, abortion is legal. So, *I* can stand against it all day and night but also not be such a pinhead that I don't realize that people have a "right" to obtain one, no matter what my stand is on the matter.

Freedom actually DOES mean that people's religions(and plenty else)might get trampled on. The US Supreme Court definitely cemented that with Falwell vs. Larry Flynt/Hustler many years ago.I think Terry Jones is a total bozo, as if just looking at him isn't a clue enough, but if he wants to be an idiot, that's life. Everyone has a right to say "hey, you are freak and a joke," but that's about it. He wants to burn whatever on his property, that's the way it goes.

PTC Observer
PTC Observer's picture
Online
Joined: 04/23/2007
NUK_1 ..... So

In your world it seems principles do not exist, that's fine. There are many like you, including it seems Spyglass.

I don't disagree that someone has the right to burn a Koran. My point is that simply saying that the right exists and not taking a stand against an action is wrongheaded. Freedom requires virtue.

More than our troops are at risk here it is the very rights that we are talking about. Religious tolerance is a hallmark of our country, let's keep it that way.

BTW - Falwell vs. Flynt had nothing to do with religion is was freedom of speech that was at issue.

NUK_1
NUK_1's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/17/2007
Observer: Principles

First, if you don't include religion as part of freedom of speech, I don't know what to say. To me and the court system, the expression of one's religious beliefs(or lack thereof) is heavily(not totally) protected under the 1st Amendment. The Falwell-Flynt case was about religious "satire" and definitely a free speech issue. And a really bad taste issue.

I don't know what kind of "stand" you expect people to take on this here at the ye old blogs. I am totally against burning Korans, Bibles, Harlequin romance novels, flags whatever, just to enrage other people, which is what bonehead in Florida was thinking of doing. HOWEVER, I don't want to see his "right" to do so taken away. So....what's supposedly wrong with saying he's an idiot but that is his right?

This is a message board where the vast majority uses pseudonyms. Because "Joe Blogger 4LIfe" takes a stand on anything here doesn't mean a ton in the grand scheme of life. No one is going to say "wow, Joe Blogger is sooooo right and I am glad he expressed his great two or three paragraph summation of the world."

I assume most people here all have plenty of basic values and principles that they don't feel like talking about daily here because they don't think it's very relevant, interesting, or anyone else's concern.

Spyglass
Spyglass's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/28/2008
Well said NUK...

I did my best to not let PTC Observer get under my skin. I stand by my statements I clearly said I didn't agree with it, but didn't want "his right to do it taken away". If he/she can't understand that, well, it's his/her loss.

PTC Observer
PTC Observer's picture
Online
Joined: 04/23/2007
NUK_1 & Spyglass

Understood your points, guess we can see you in the streets and in front of CNN and FOX without your Avatars?

Guess not.

Spyglass
Spyglass's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/28/2008
" I don't agree with it"

What about that statement was confusing to you? We will have to agree to disagree about the right to "trample" on others religions. I hear things all the time that put down one religion or another.

BTW, I appreciate your service to the USA.

carbonunit52
carbonunit52's picture
Offline
Joined: 03/05/2008
Quran burning

In the context of this issue becoming world wide news, it seems to me that it is not much different than yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater. It certainly would not do our troops in Afghanistan any favors, and we would probably have no choice but to get out.

My formula for religious tolerance is this: extend to others the same amount of tolerance and respect that I want for myself.

Insayn
Insayn's picture
Offline
Joined: 02/29/2008
What if a Muslim decided to

What if a Muslim decided to burn 1000 Bibles? Would they be worried that we would kill innocent Muslims? Probably not. Why? Because we don't call for others to die because they're not Christian. At least not as openly as many thousands of muslim extremists do.

I personally think the guys an idiot, but he has the right to burn religious books to any religion if he wants, just as a Muslim has the right to build a mosque 2 blocks from the rubble of the twin towers.

Now that im on that topic i wonder if someone can answer why Obama, Hilary and many others got on TV and said what a bad idea this was and why he shouldn't do it, but told the builder of the mosque to go right ahead and spit in the eye of the American people and build his mosque? Where was their condemnation of this idea? Why not tell them "hey, you can build you mosque, but we think its in very poor taste, and don't come crying when some pissed off family member of a casualty of 9/11 Burns it down"?

Courthouserules
Courthouserules's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/02/2010
INSANE

Your name fits you well!

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
. . America is at war with

. . America is at war with terrorists - not Islam. Many here have stated how a Fayette resident feels. A man by the name of Timothy McVeigh killed hundreds in the bombing of a Federal building in the United States. . . yet Americans have not seen fit to deport/or treat with violent acts all 'white' male Christians' because of this act. I don't know if McVeigh was a Christian - but I think you get my point. I say, raise the awareness of the actions of those who would try to destroy this country; but don't paint all Americans of the Islamic faith as our enemies. Interesting that maybe our enemies don't have to use violent methods to destroy us - our own misguided hate and fear is doing a very good job of destroying what most Americans believe. We need to follow the leadership of our faith leaders in our community and come together as Americans. Destroying the religious books of other faiths in not the American way.

hutch866
hutch866's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/28/2005
Dm

This whole thread, and you are the only one to bring race into it...go figure. McVeigh's act was against an government, not a religion, and I seriously doubt that a person who commits such a cowardly act and takes hundreds of lives can be called a Christian. A while back you told the white males on here that they "needed to get over it", I suggest you take your own advice.

Cyclist
Cyclist's picture
Offline
Joined: 05/15/2007
Davids mom: You are right...

we are at war with terrorists. The problem, at least the way this fat boy that rides a bicycle sees it, is the terrorists have elected to immerse Islam into their cause. How many times have we seen "Jihad" declared in one conflict after another?

You know if only the darn British and the French would have kept their dagum hands off the middle east after WWI.

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
Cy

Our enemies are recruiting based on the 'lie' that the U.S. is at war with Islam. To lump all American Muslims as our enemies - while they are serving in our military, paying taxes, etc. is wrong IMO. To allow a Terry Jones to represent all American Christians is what is happening in many Islamic countries. This poses a danger for our troops abroad.

Cyclist
Cyclist's picture
Offline
Joined: 05/15/2007
Davids mom

Perhaps it would be better to say - to lump all Muslims as our enemies.... We are not at war with a religion. It's unfortunate that Muslims in the middle east can't see that. But then their societies and governments are so interwoven with the tenets of Islam that nobody dares to speak out or call a stuffed animal "Mohamed" without the fear of getting flogged.

IMO, Terry Jones is just a little man seeking publicity. Thank goodness he doesn't preach to any future presidential candidates. Also, thank goodness we don't have an official state religion.

Now with all that said, what local grocery store will sell me beer today so that hutch and I can have a brew? ☺

PTC Observer
PTC Observer's picture
Online
Joined: 04/23/2007
DM - news

for you, he was not a Christian, even if he said he was.

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
Hutch -The elephant

in the middle of the room. RACISM (I too was told to get over it early in the discussion - yet after more than 200 years, like it or not, this little problem still exists in our country.) It is encouraging that there is a feeling of agreement that Americans should not support an unprincipled/un-American act. - even if one has the right to do such an act under our Constitution/Bill of Rights. Unfortunately, acts of terror, when done, create a fear and hate of those who did it IF THEY DON'T LOOK LIKE A TIMOTHY MCVEIGH. Like it or not - this is being discussed on blogs where you probably would feel uncomfortable. One of the problems of our society is that persons with different views and experiences seldom have to confront one another. Just wanted you guys to know what others are thinking. What you don’t know – can be limiting in understanding your fellow Americans.

Insayn
Insayn's picture
Offline
Joined: 02/29/2008
Perhaps you missed the

Perhaps you missed the article that I read this morning where as many as 10,000 people gathered in a protest in Afghanistan shouting "Death to America" over Terry Jones' stunt.

For fear of sounding like Im agreeing with Terry Jones' ill conceived idea I'll reiterate my opinion: hes an idiot and a fool, but he has the right to be an idiot.

BUT (and heres the part that sounds like Im agreeing with him) he didn't say he was going to kill Muslims. Yet 10,000 people are shouting "Death to America" when one man, a nobody, who no one has ever heard of, who's not an important figure in American culture or politics, is burning a book of faith which is, again, a right given to him by our Constitution Whether you agree with his plan or not.

You preach tolerance and you call racism. How much will you tolerate if or when people, American or otherwise, die over the burning of a book?

Do you think its okay for them to cry "death to America"?

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
Insayn

My email is overrun with DEPORT THE MUSLIMS junk. We have citizens right in our own country who are reacting just as the Muslims are reacting to Terry Jones. Muslims feel that Terry Jones represents all of us - and we feel that all Muslims are guilty for Sept.11. Two wrongs don't make a right. The sad thing about this is now all Americans are viewed suspiciously when traveling in the Middle East - and we have Americans who are now viewing all Muslims with suspicion. Because we are Americans - we are divided. You may not realize it because of the media coverage - but Muslims are also divided. Someone, somewhere is enjoying this fiasco - but it has put many humans in additional danger in an already dangerous world. Sad.

Courthouserules
Courthouserules's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/02/2010
INSANE

Is "death to America" shouted In Afghanistan by 10,000 OK?

Is it illegal in the USA to say "death to America?" To say "death to Afghanistan?"

Are we talking religion here or government? Isn't that pretty much the same in Afghanistan? Some think here that our government and Christianity are the same! I'm sure they do in Afghanistan.

The real problem is that a significant portion of the populations of both countries are not religious!!! Or, are Muslim or Buddhist or whatever the Beetles were!

Need anymore convincing to leave religion out of government here?

The argument that "it may be legal but is not OK" is very weak!

That's like saying that drinking alcohol is legal but is not OK.

Like saying that boxers try to kill one another and pro footballers also, but it is OK since it is not illegal. Heavy physical damage is produced by the score every day! Isn't that called felony something or other if done while drunk at a bar?

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
Cy :-)

I hope you and Hutch enjoy your brew - but remember, Muslims throughout the world - and many are not our enemies, are viewing Terry Jones as representative of all American Christians. . . and that's scary. There were a few men from Saudi Arabia who killed 3000 Americans of all religions on September 11. The man who claimed credit, Bin Laden, - well his family that resided in the United States was safely flown out of the country. The mistaken desire to 'blame' even our American-Muslims for Sept. 11 is IMO wrong. To be ever vigilant regarding the suspicious actions of ALL within our midst is wisdom - to base suspicion only on religion and/or appearance - is foolish. I know there are no ‘foolish’ ones on this blog. Enjoy your brew!!

Cyclist
Cyclist's picture
Offline
Joined: 05/15/2007
You know Davids mom,

Perhaps someday there can be one-on-one dialog between everyone. Something like the The Citizen but instead it would be المواطن. We can freely discuss issues.

Oops I forgot, many middle eastern nations don't allow free access to the net. What on earth was I thinking.

Anyways, no beer at the house today. Poor planning on my part. I did drink all the wine last night. The boss is now sore at me. ☺

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
Cy :-)

Oops I forgot, many Middle Eastern nations don't allow free access to the net. What on earth was I thinking.

Fortunately the younger generation finds a way - and many of the young are communicating with those in their generation throughout the world. We have free access - but as you know, we are monitored. Those young people in some other countries participate at their own risk - but they are communicating. Our form of democracy and our living standard is admired. Our preoccupation with 'skin' color is often questioned. This fiasco with Terry Jones has been very hurtful - and blown way out of REALITY! According to some Arab media - we are all marching in the streets demanding the burning of the Quran. What - no football today?

Cyclist
Cyclist's picture
Offline
Joined: 05/15/2007
Davids mom
Davids mom wrote:

Our preoccupation with 'skin' color is often questioned.

I'll let you in on a little secret, skin color is an issue in Saudi.

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
Cy :-)

Oh I know! Isn't it a shame? It is also an issue in India - and throughout the world. This is one of the attractions of Islam. It appears that there are Muslims of all colors. Malcom X (originally a member of the 'Black' Muslims) when he went to Mecca was impressed with the fact that Muslims came in all colors. This was the beginning of his cooperation with MLK. Christians also come in all colors - (duh) - but we humans seem to have quite a problem with accepting those who appear different. (Sometimes within our own families) While in China, a young man kept following us around - asking to take a picture with my husband. After arriving home and looking at the picture, we were amazed at the resemblance between the two. (We hadn't noticed it - being awed by the Wall of China.) Believe me, I know that there is this 'issue' throughout the world - even in Africa. I have seen so much progress in this area in my lifetime - that I just believe that eventually we will acknowledge the differences - and not discriminate because of them. Maybe too much to hope for. Enjoy the rest of your evening!!

MYTMITE
MYTMITE's picture
Offline
Joined: 02/14/2008
DM, when i was working in the President's Office in a major

university, there was a young African-American lady under my supervision. One day she mentioned that her brother wanted to marry a girl that she felt who would not be suitable for him because she was too dark and her skin was "ashy". I had never heard this before and was completely taken aback. I asked if she was a nice person--and she assured me she was. I asked if she was educated and she assured me she was. I then asked again, what could she possibly have against this young woman. She mentioned that everyone in her family was light skinned and it would be an embarassment to have someone with dark "ashy" skin in her family--and what if they had a dark child? Needless to say I was completely flabbergasted as this was the mid-sixties and our offices had recently been integrated. I could not believe that this young person would have feelings such as these for someone who seemed to be fine in every way except for her skin being "too dark". She assured me that this definitely was an issue and that many people of lighter skin did not want to mix with those of darker skin. It was the beginning of my education--I learned that prejudice is everywhere, even where you least expect to find it.

Courthouserules
Courthouserules's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/02/2010
MyTmite

As to color of a person most of that sort of talk is tainted by just how one matures all the way from childhood.
It really isn't about the color as such, but more about what surrounds those of color.
If there was a real prejudice about color in that it makes a person lesser than some, then the old system of wet nurses in colonial days wouldn't have existed.
Have you ever noticed just how different the manner of conversation is when people of color talk to one another in their own surroundings, than when they have a conversation with you in your surroundings? Even the President does that!
There is nothing inherently wrong with that, it is that some have lived both lives and find it comfortable to switch back and forth.

An actual division of peoples' into groups according to the darkness of skin really doesn't exist as a practice, The closest thing to that sort of thing are the East Indians who sort by caste!

Many blacks in the USA who are extremely dark overcome all prejudice by their manner of living and accomplishment. Most however come from a family who did the same thing.
I'm sure you are familiar with some who have done this without having to mention names?

There are reasons why the Tiger Woods' of the world marry Scandinavian wives. They see what they perceive to be an advantages for them and their children. I can't explain the lack of prejudice the Scandinavians have.

Many of us are "mixtures" that occurred long ago and were it not for color the other attributes wouldn't be recognized in many cases.

Behavior is much more of an item with which to show prejudice than is color. Remember the Gypsies, the Irish émigrés---the Italians, etc.
A more likely comparison might be the English Colony peoples' who came to the USA and spoke perfect English-English. Little prejudice there!

Main Stream
Main Stream's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/27/2006
Qur'an burning on youtube...

..posted years ago.

Personally, I don't like the action of burning any books, however, if extremists feel the urge to protest and exercise their freedom of speech and want to do so by incinerating a "holy" book, then they absolutely have that right. At least in the atheist/agnostic community, we feel that burning a Bible, Qur'an, the Vedas, Torah, etc. is just plain mean and is a way of drawing attention to their little group of haters.

The Qur'an has been burned before and there is a video of it being torched on Youtube, however, most people probably weren't aware of this because the media did not make a big deal out of it. I do believe that Pastor Terry Jones has made an interesting point, however, illuminating the fact that there is a darker side to Islam, the extremist side, that would incite violence and death in the name of their superstitious belief system and their book of myths. The Westboro Baptist Church of loons actually burned the Qur'an on Saturday, along with an American flag. Why isn't the media reporting on this?
http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/politics/3325/gay-hating_churc...

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
Main!

Why isn't the media reporting on this?

Might be interesting to find out who owns our 'independent' media.

bladderq
bladderq's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/02/2005
WHo Owns Media

You mean the Fox's big shareholder? Would not be the 1st time demigawds played both sides of the street. How else can you sell to both sides?

Courthouserules
Courthouserules's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/02/2010
DM

Who owns Media?

Except for FOX empire and their stable of floozies and yes men--which is owned by an Australian Right Winger, mostly stockholders own the Media.

I would have to say that until recent years that the publishing and movie industry was run by mostly one race, and party. The bearing that has on "media", I don't know.

Our local paper is Southern run.

Books written before the modern age (1960), had much to do with pointing out errors in our culture (Grapes, Mockingbird, Sreinbeck).

Currently, books are political and have no meaning.

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
Deleted by poster

,

bladderq
bladderq's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/02/2005
Burning Books & Houses of Worship on Hallowed Grd

If we condemn them NAZI's for May 10, 1933, how can we in good conscience be silent on Sept 11, 2010. Have we become afraid of ideas? Don't we dishonor the memory of all those that fought that tyranny for our (US) ideals & values? How in the world w/ a straight face towards 1 Billion people, oppose the building of a house of worship in NYC or TN or anywhere else? How far from Ground Zero in the close confines of NYC is Hallowed Ground? The mosque debate is a joke. How ridiculous do we once again look to the whole rest of the world, let alone the 1 BILLION Moslems. Allowed w/in the Hallowed Ground around Ground Zero is everything that Islam says is wrong w/ US society ("Sea of Filth") but a house of worship can't be built w/out brouhaha.

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/08/16/2010-08-16_a_sea_of_filth...

Courthouserules
Courthouserules's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/02/2010
Bladder

How do you think a statue of General Tecumseh Sherman at the docks in Savannah, GA would go over?
He did pretty much end the Civil War, stopping millions more from being killed!

It is a pride thing. Religion has little to do with it.

Chris P. Bacon
Chris P. Bacon's picture
Offline
Joined: 02/28/2010
Burning a Quran

"people that burn books usually end up burning people" - anon.

I'm not sure why some people feel compelled to burn the religious books of those religions they don't agree with.

Does they feel like this makes them somehow "more holy" in the eyes of their Creator?

I've always felt that if you feel your religion is superior to that of everyone else's religion, that you should argue the relative benefits of that religion, not the shortcomings of other folks' religion.

Recent Comments