Yup unions suck, and so do their members

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normal
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Flight attendants union sues Delta ahead of expected vote

* Union says Delta not honoring Northwest bargaining pact

* Delta says complaint has no merit

ATLANTA Aug 26 (Reuters) - The Association of Flight Attendants-CWA union has sued Delta Air Lines Inc (DAL.N), saying the world's biggest carrier is violating the bargaining agreement that covers more than 7,000 flight attendants who worked for Northwest Airlines.

The complaint, filed in federal court in Washington, D.C., states Delta "is unwilling to resolve disputes" with the union, and adds contract breaches involve such issues as scheduling and pay.

Carmen Parcelli, attorney for the flight attendants union, said on Thursday that the lawsuit was filed on Aug. 19. It seeks unspecified damages and an order halting contract breaches.

Wouldnt it be nice if unions and their goons actually helped a company out. A company should have to right to fire anyone that doesnt play by their employers rules. If you dont like the job get to hell out. Dont ruin it for the others that do enjoy their job. Good God it is unions that drove all the companies over seas. So much for our jobs in the good old usa. Face it unions are out dated. If you think you need a union you are a follower not a leader. Not to mention a total whimp. The schools the government all are being ruined by unions. Get my point and no I dont really care if you like it. If you support unions you are spineless and you are part of the problem.

Have a nice night,

Joe Kawfi
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Unions

Couldn't agree more. Unions are nothing but a bunch of thugs that coddle the incompetent and overpaid. (i.e., teachers unions)

bugoumai520
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Unions are nothing but a

Unions are nothing but a bunch of thugs that coddle the incompetent and overpaid.

bugoumai520
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Unions are nothing but a

Unions are nothing but a bunch of thugs that coddle the incompetent and overpaid.

carbonunit52
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Normal

I get the impression that you do not know many union members. Collective bargaining is a good thing. Management created the need for unions, unions did not create the need for management. Overall, I say God Bless the unionized brothers and sisters.

Git Real
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I've Known MANY Union Members Over The Years

And the vast majority of them are a fraction as productive as those who are not part of the 'mafia mentality'.

I do agree that Collective Bargaining IS a good thing. It has been a real good thing for countries that have benefited from the jobs that have left this country as a result of being "Collectively Bargained".

carbonunit52
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History of unions in America

Very interesting reading, what with the military being called out and the Pinkerton thugs to deal with in the early days. The union members I know are coal miners, iron workers, carpenters, teamsters. I would not call them unproductive, I call them very loyal Americans. In this current recession that we are in, many of those who have a job are being worked like rented mules, making the need for new hires less than what it normally would be. Unions can definitley be seen as an asset under these circumstances. There is the need for self-preservation on both sides of a negotiating table, and I would not look for candidates for sainthood on either side, but I sure would not put the blame for job loss on unions when it takes two to tango.

Git Real
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Mornin' Carb
carbonunit52 wrote:

The union members I know are coal miners, iron workers, carpenters, teamsters. I would not call them unproductive, I call them very loyal Americans.

Sorry Carb. I beg to differ. I have worked in and around the petro-chemical, telecommunication, electrical, trucking, commercial & residential construction industries all my working life. I have observed and personally experienced the production rates and work ethics of both union workers and free men. There is no comparison. A non union man will out produce and union goon any day of the week and that same man is twice the benefit economically to his country and the company he works for.

carbonunit52 wrote:

In this current recession that we are in, many of those who have a job are being worked like rented mules, making the need for new hires less than what it normally would be.

Bull Hocky! That is a line that union members use when excusing their lack of production and their desire to extort more to benefit themselves while offering less from themselves. Many employees, such as my own, see what is happening in this economy and have stepped it on their end realizing this is a fight for the survival of the business that feeds their families. Heck yeah many are having to do more. And that is bad in what way? One good thing about this recession is that more people are starting to realize they owe their employer 8 hours of work for 8 hours of pay rather than seeing how little they can get away with while doing their personal finance, personal phone calls, and internet cruising on company time.

carbonunit52 wrote:

I sure would not put the blame for job loss on unions when it takes two to tango.

First of all. Jobs to produce manufactured goods in this country weren't lost. They were simply moved to another country. They were *moved* as a result of our government dumping endless and burdensome compliance and tax issues on businesses creating an an atmosphere that was unfriendly and non-conducive for businesses to operate on US soil.

Manufacturers had a choice to make. They could either continue to make a go of it here and obsolete themselves in a competitive nature and seal their doom OR they could move the jobs offshore where they could insure their survival and remain competitive while keeping the doors open. Anyone with any sort business sense combined with a productive work ethic and and an open mind can easily see and understand this.

Thankfully many industries survived as a result of not being strong armed by the unions and I know many people who work hard for these companies and make a respectable living WITHOUT having the Nanny Union Thugs rule over them and extorting monies out the employees and the business. Unions (nowadays) are no more than a dead expense on our economy. Money sucking leeches creating jobs for those who refuse to produce anything tangible but would rather live off the backs of the workers of this country. THAT is what unions are all about.

Look at the teachers unions, automotive unions, govenrment unions. Shameless is the only word deserving of use to describe them with.

Anyways.... my word, opinions and time are wasted here.

carbonunit52
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Mornin' Git
Quote:

Anyways.... my word, opinions and time are wasted here.

Oh no, not so! I welcome your responses more than anyones. I like to emphasize the right of working people to organize and you like to point out the dysfunctional aspects of unions. No problem there, I have seen plenty myself, but I am still pro labor. What would the non-union worker's situation be if there were no unions to set the pay and workplace safety standards?

Git Real
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Carbonated Unions
carbonunit52][quote wrote:

Oh no, not so! I welcome your responses more than anyones.

Compliment not taken lightly......

carbonunit52][quote wrote:

What would the non-union worker's situation be if there were no unions to set the pay and workplace safety standards?

Ummmmm...have to take issue with this comment. The market dictates pay standards these days. Where the unions do dictate pay standards it is usually at the expense of the taxpayers. For it is gumament unions that are so rapidly expanding. If the unions attempt to to dictate pay standards in manufacturing based industry sectors the results are lost jobs because the market cannot realistically support those bloated pay / benefits mandates. GM is THE prime example of a ruined company that was practically taken over by the unions.

In my not so humble opinion... (chuckle)it is not the unions that set workplace standards these days, but modernization of work practices, technology, and practical regulation that improved such. Some of which resulted from union pressures in years past. But as we speak of unions today... they are nothing more than a selfish, jobs program for Democrat minded hacks that gain power as a result of being a union thug. They hold this power via political influence by extorting cash by forcible means from the workers they are supposed to represent while lining their own pockets and influence.

I have as much use and respect for unions as I do for the mafia. They are both forms of organized crime.

Anyways... it was an beautiful day for turning perfectly good gasoline into noise. Hope to do so again tomorrow. Cheers!

Observerofu
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The issue with Unions

is it always promotes the lowest common denominator.

You have 10 people on a line. One really a great producer One really lousy
producer. Same Union pay scale. What happens is always what happens when Unions are involved. The employer can't fire the low producer and the high producer will start to "dumb" down his production level. He/She can't get more pay, can't be promoted and can't even be acknowledged.

Results across the board are lower production, higher cost thus a De facto Union tax.

bad_ptc
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Git & Unions

Unions were good for dock workers back in the mid 1900's, other than then they have only benefitted the leadership of the union itself.

It was easy to see that when the laws were changed such that 'no' votes had to exceed 'yes' votes rather than taking the percentage of yes votes vs. the total of those represented that the system was rigged.

Why don't we elect a president based on yes and no votes? Go figure.

I've been forced to be represented by a union, on more than one occasion, and have told the 'union rep.' that if they come near me there would bodily harm inflected upon them. Yet somehow, via a law I've never heard of, I'm required to pay 'union dues' that I never voted for and I have no desire to have.

Unions are for sissies that can’t or won’t stand up for themselves.

If you think your boss is being unfair, QUIT and find another job. Quit listening to people that make their living by telling you how and what to think! If you’re incapable of thinking for yourself, quit working altogether and go on welfare. You’ll probably make more money and get better health care.

Git Real
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Bad Unions

I too was forced to work under union authority years ago when I would work in Union Carbide plant between my regular jobs. As a producer I resented the fact that I was instructed to reduce my work production by at least 75% because I was making other people look bad. I was told to keep out of site after completing the assigned task so these worthless union goons could milk their gravy train. I walked out and left higher pay rather than become one of them.

As you say, it is by force they empower themselves. They are as worthless as any of the other crooks we see in places like Citibank, our government, or the ones who are sponging off the backs of the producers via welfare.

Unions are undeniably part of our economic problem.

Comparing unions today to unions of yester-year is like comparing Democrats today to Democrats of 50 years ago. There is NO comparasion.

Cyclist
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PATCO

Thousands of airline employees lost their jobs because of those yo-yos.

Git Real
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Yes Cy....

I know. Granted...unions are only a piece of the puzzle that has contributed to the movement of jobs overseas and the lost manufacturing base of this country. But they are a huge piece.

Courthouserules
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Git:unions

We need our manufacturing back.
Do you have any ideas as to how to do that and keep the unions out?

That way we could pay factory workers minimum wages and no benefits and make widgets here again!
At that price they would sell overseas.

But the unions will want 12-25 dollars an hour for labor and some benefits.

I don't see how we can compete paying them 20-40 thousand dollars per year.
Especially when their wives can work to pay for the groceries. If rent isn't too high.

Now some unions will want up to $250,000 per year for their fliers--the older they get the better fliers they are!

What do you think?

Git Real
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Well Bonker$....

We have a huge problem here. And tough decisions, discipline and desire by the people would have to take place to reverse the trend we are in. Unfortunately we will probably go the way the Europe...

I have to ask a question before I answer you $. What happened to the TRILLIONS of dollars the demi-god you elected and fawned over? Who benefited? Where did the money go? What tangible return on that waste did we get out this foolish act of desperation? How many Dem supporters, union hacks and miscellaneous cronies benefited while the American people lost or are in process of losing their homes, jobs and future? With that kind of money and sensible fool could have made a difference. What do we have to show for your sacred Democrat policies Bonky? You know... many of us were very disappointed in the presidency of George Bush. But my God in Heaven in above and all that is within me, I could not fathom how terrible this freaking clown we have as a leader is. So you try to put me on the spot eh? So be it.

First of all I would neuter the political and lobbying power of the unions and return ***choice*** to the American worker as to whether they choose to be forced into participating in the funding of a union in order to keep their job.

Regarding exports: I would remove the cost of government from the products we export thus reducing the cost of our products to our customer base around the world by 20% - 25%. This in turn will narrow our trade gap with immediate results and create jobs and stir tremendous business activity. I can hear you tax hungry Democrats whining about the thought of not being able to tax these business transactions. But I ask... How can you tax something that does not currently exist? At least we will be able to tax the wages of those who are now put back to work and the revenues of those that benefit from the expansionary spending of those that benefit economically as a result of export growth.

We then teach people that the road to prosperity is made via the manufacturing of goods and services and not through endless roles of desk jobs and management jobs that duplicate efforts. The days of hiring luxury workers to make one's own job easier is coming to an end. The era of mission critical staffing would be the order of the day.

We would encourage our youth to pursue careers of engineering, science (and I mean REAL science), trade skills, and business degrees that are earned and not taught by people who have never been productive in the private sector before. And we would question our youth as to what their real jobs will be when thy tell us they want to major in music, art, political science, lesbian studies, workplace psychology, lawyer degrees and other assorted educational paths that are useless due to the overabundance of such silly career choices. It reminds me of the hood....where everyone is going to become professional basketball player.

I would then cut welfare. Poor people that can't afford to feed their children and house them on their own should not be allowed to use taxpayer monies to subsidize their transportation, lottery tickets, drug habits, cell phones, cable TV, internet and etc. Our so-called poor are far from being poor. Give them a real incentive to make something out themselves or indeed be poor. It is shameless that we penalize disabled veterans and reduce their incomes when they get a little extra on the side yet we reward laziness and idleness from those that will never take the initiative to contribute to society in a productive manner. Yes...that means they have to do actual public service projects to earn parts of their subsistence.

Eliminate illegal immigration.... Period!!! Nuff said.

And we teach people that they can have successful businesses and livelihoods by getting of their pathetic azzes and by competing against the illegals and taking those jobs back. We need to honor the trades that once employed blacks and whites in this country before they got the crazy notion that everyone deserved a comfy chair behind a computer in an air conditioned environment while they spend half their day chit chatting and surfing the web while leaving the trade work to the illegals. Tell you what...show me a American black or white guy who is willing to spread pine straw for a living and I'll pay a little bit more. Show me a roofing company that employs American black and white dudes and I'll chose them over the companies that utilize illegals. Many will stand with me on this. For the rest of the employers who refuse to pay??? We have laws against employing non-American illegals. Enforce the damned things.

Combine that with a program that would have restructured loans in a manner that would have prevented most foreclosures and this pathetic and useless clown we have as a president could have made something of himself and the opportunity before him.

Anyways.... we have no leadership in this country that will champion effective turn-around solutions. And the American people do not have the will to initiate and support the changes that would benefit our children, our grandchildren, and ourselves as long as we continue getting our little subsistence manna from our political gods from above.

So Bonker$....those are just a few of the difficult decisions, mindsets and policy decisions that need to be made all or in part to really make a difference regarding the issues at hand.

But I fear we will continue with your way and the the ways of your kind. Continue raping and pillaging the producers and the successful until the only thing you guys will have left eat...is yourselves.

Courthouserules
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gitreal

I read your answer to Bonker$ and then re-read his.

I can make no sense out of what you say! Sorry.

Here are the plain facts without discussing generalities of random thoughts as you did:

From about 1999 until 2008, we (those in power and us) allowed a false economy to develop by Banks, Insurance Companies, and individual spending on credit they couldn't afford on credit cards and homes; also, business men overbuilding homes and commercial structures which were unneeded, also on credit.

So much value was lost forever of our assets that it is going to take 5-10 years to rebuild it.

The current administration could have backed down on the Bush Bank bail-outs and not asked for more for the TARP which would have put us in an immediate Depression, immediately! If you will remember Mr. Paulson (Treasury for Bush) started this mess when they finally realized how badly they had screwed up.

Now you and others want to blame President Obama for all that, when actually, so far anyway, he has saved us from soup lines everywhere.

We can not trust the Wall Street crooks again, as FOX news advocates every hour of the day! All that does is produce billionaires out of a few which the rest of us pay for!

Don't advocate the same old bad ideas as Bush, help us solve very serious problems. The "pathetic useless clown," as you say, is doing the best that can be done with the horror of his inheritance.

Git Real
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So I wasted my time answer you Bonker$

You asked me how to restore manufacturing jobs and you blast off into TARP spending. The very same TARP spending that your Wonder Boy Demi-God screamed for Bush to implement before he even took office. Don't get me started as I oppose the Tarp waste which propped up some companies that should have went Tango Uniform while their assets were gobbled up by quality companies.

Quote:

I can make no sense out of what you say! Sorry

There was never a doubt in my mind that you would not be able to make sense of my answer. That was a 'given' before the submit button was clicked.

Quote:

The "pathetic useless clown," as you say, is doing the best that can be done with the horror of his inheritance.

Yes. I am in complete agreement with the first part of your statment. He has done HIS best. And it has more than worsened the situation at hand. Look... there is no use in communicating with a fool that is bent on seeing only what he wants to see. Have a good day Dollar.

Courthouserules
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In Atlanta Journal today

The gentleman who was going to build 5000 homes and a city on the Fayette/coweta border at the end of an extended TDK was written up as to what happened to him as an example of what happened to most banks in this area.

Basically it involved a group starting a bank with many of the directors Developers.

The developers applied for millions in loans, got them, and started building like crazy, even added to the loans often.

What bank "employee" would refuse a loan to a director when the developers as a whole owned the majority of the loans made?

He lost most of his 50ish million assets since he really couldn't get out or the bank would surely fail! Some did get out earlier.

As I remember those times I had heard that not just anyone could put up a share and get involved with the original charter.
They were the lucky ones.

PTC government was blamed for not aiding in the building of the road to Coweta due to what they thought would be traffic congestion in PTC, but it turned out it would not have made it anyway due to the current recession!

I am amazed that there are still people who blame the new administration for our predicament and want more of the same elected who created our catastrophe! Some do realize it and started the TEAS, but that is useless with the characters they have running. A handful of them will win anything important.

William Clinton
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Unions Do Stink!

Very simple, look at manufacturing plants in the US. Look at the ones that are profitable and the ones that are not. Just focusing on Automotive, look at the foreign companies that come here and don't have union contracts... They are making money. The ones with unions, can't do jack because they have you "give me give me give me" attitude employees pulling the system down taking your 15 minute breaks every hour. Dang it, go out and find a job where you have some personal responsibility. This isn't the 1800's and you're not in West Virginia. Union leaders and Demo-Cracks (aka democratic politicians) survive off of the poor and ignorant.

bladderq
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Unions Evil?

Tell that to the 2300 Chinese mine workers dead in China or even the ones in Chile. Yea, deregulation would be just paradise here in earth w/out those mean old blood suckers. Think of all the money to be made.

Observerofu
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Much like the 1930's and 50's

China has much of the same issues as America faced. However they do not have a FREE form of Government. Laborers are slave to Government. That is the normal Socialist form of Governance.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

American Unions were vital and directing Government away from the dialectic of the many/few argument.

Now fast forward to 1960's-80's.

America is no longer the Socialist lite style of Governance. America has begun to re-focus on the laborer as an individual. Unions at this time are at their zenith. American workers are getting better pay and benefits. Unions have successfully turned a page in the chapter of the American worker.

Again fast forward to the 1990's and today.

Union leaders have slowly been replaced from the labor based activist to the Global view radical i.e. Andy Stern and his "Workers of the World unite" to Trumpka's "Global Governance" and Global workers party".

This has turned the era of unions for American laborers to now a Global view of one World Government. They are no longer relevant to the American labor pool.
In the US Unions have become bloated and over burdened by the very things they fought for. Pensions they can't pay as well as an entrenched attitude of never "going back" not even to yesterday period.

This alone has made the Unions leaders seek out an alliance with Government and forced an un-holy marriage of a Socialist styled re-emergence of the many/few argument.

Union leaders pensions are fully funded by over 110% while the laborer is not funded hardly at all. Government and Unions in bed together are using their "Power of Persuasion" and "Persuasion of Power" to forward a Social agenda and is working towards re-distribution of Wealth. No not from the Rich to the Poor in America, but from the US to Third World Countries.

Unions can be a vital means to an end in helping laborers increase their pay and benefits AS LONG AS THE EMPLOYER can afford it, however, union members MUST police their own ranks and remove their leaders that have become toadies to Government.

normal
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IAM ad about Delta

I heard the IAM ad today to vote for a union at Delta. It was a damn sad joke to hear that crap. Job security, keep the family together, make Delta a better company. BULL
The union will not do anything for you Delta folks except take your money. They are nothing but thugs looking for a bunch of stupid followers. Good lord stand up for yourself not a bunch of clowns in a union. You know Delta has been here for a long time without union reps. Except for Pilots and flight control of course. You at Delta do not need this. The only ones who want the union are the spinless who came with Northwest. They are so obvious on a flight, just look for the old, over weight bad attitude workers on a flight or at the gate and ticket counters and you have found the northwest employees. Just get over yourselves and make your new home better by working harder. Delta will reward you. Or just quit, they dont need you.
I am not an employee of Delta but I do only fly them.

Chris P. Bacon
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Breathtakingly ignorant
normal wrote:

*splutter snip*
...make your new home better by working harder. Delta will reward you. ...

Breathtakingly ignorant.

normal
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OMG Bacon must be a butt kisser

Bottom line here bacon, if you dont like your job and bosses get to hell out. You are then one of the spinless followers not a leader. Sounds like congress

Chris P. Bacon
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"Normal"'s fixation with Delta unions

For someone who claims not to be a Delta employee, you sure do have a fixation with Delta's unions, "Normal".

May 2010: Normal Whines About Delta Unions
July 2010: Normal Whines About Delta Unions
October 2010: Normal Whines About Delta Unions

PTC Observer
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CPB - Unions

Just knew you couldn't resist this topic.

normal
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Way to Go Delta Flight attendants

I am proud of the 9544 NO UNION votes. You all that voted for the union have no spines. So now it is over, do your job, be happy and enjoy the pay raise you get next time without having to strike for it. For those of you who want your over paid thugs in the union to represent you quit. Get a job with a union company. There are tens of thousands of great people unemployed who would love to take your job. If you dont like your company do all of us customers a favor and get out. Remember you are like taking a bucket of water from the ocean, no one will miss it.
And Happy Thanksgiving to you all.

Cyclist
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I didn't think they would...

bring in AFA. Let's see how the IAM vote fairs out.

Cyclist
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Delta, AFA, and the Guv

The latest vote was held according to the "new" requirements; but nooooo, that was not the desired outcome. It was reported today in the AJC that the National Mediation Board is considering nullifying the last election and force a new one. The recent election yielded a 51% vote against. So Delta could be forced to continue this exercise - which does have a cost associated with it - till the "right" outcome is achieved.

And the reason....Those that used company computers may have allowed the company to track whether employees voted, a violation of their privacy. BTW, this is the same computer system that would have captured a "yes" vote and nothing would have been said about the privacy if the union prevailed.

Oh well, and the beat goes on.

normal
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Delta Ground Workers Reject Union

Way to go ramp. You can be proud you are leaders and not followers. You will have a better airline and job by keeping the unions out. For those of you who are crying in your beer over the vote, do your job, have fun, take care of your family. And as usual if you find you dont like your job for any reason and can do better on the street then quit. Bye

normal
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And another shout out to Delta airport employees

A 70% NO UNION VOTE is awsome. You can all be proud and keep up the good work. Its great to see a union in this country loose millions. Seeing as millions of jobs have left the country because of the unions. Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night.