39 days after a MAJOR environmental disaster in the making and Obama finally admits "It's his mess"

79 replies [Last post]
S. Lindsey
S. Lindsey's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/31/2008

Well way to go.. I guess he could no longer ignore the polls telling him that blaming everyone else is not working any longer.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100528/ap_on_an/us_obama_my_responsibility_...

"WASHINGTON – It was always his mess to clean up. That's what Americans expect from their presidents.
And so on Day 39 of what is now the worst oil spill in U.S. history, President Barack Obama took responsibility in the only obvious way left.
Unequivocally.
"In case you were wondering who's responsible, I take responsibility," Obama said at a Thursday news conference arranged to make that very point. "It is my job to make sure that everything is done to shut this down."
"AP

Well I guess Obama needs to take that mop he has been using to clean up Bush's mess and get down to Louisiana and get to work. He might actually do something useful for a change. Maybe he needs to take AL Gore with him.. I mean where is the Environmental god after all?

Cyclist
Cyclist's picture
Offline
Joined: 05/15/2007
The Gulf Oil Spill

Bad things are going to happen here. Watching things develop on-line and reading what "Roffs" has to say, it is the suspended deep oil which can poison this body of water. In some circles, there is talk that this event could disrupt the life cycle of many species of fish that reproduce only in the gulf.

The oil at the riser is exiting at a pressure of 17,000 psi which explains why it easily overcomes the nominal water pressure of 2,200 psi. Whatever plan they come up with has to deal with a ΔP of some 15,000 psi. This is no easy feat especially 5,000 feet down. Hopefully, killing this well is going to occur sometime in August with the drilling of two relief wheels; and Hurricane season starts Tuesday.

I read where those on the Florida's panhandle are saying that the oil is far away and will not impact their beaches. They have no idea that plume of suspended oil is bearing down on them via the De Soto canyon which, when natural upwelling begins, will force that oil to the surface.

What a damn crying shame.

PTC Observer
PTC Observer's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/23/2007
Correction Cyclist

This is not an oil spill, it is an oil leak. Far worse than a mere spill, this "spill" has no ending until if and when it is stopped.

As you point out killing this leak will have to take place sometime during an above average year for Hurricanes.

If they can't get it stopped, and that too is a possiblity, we could be looking at a mother of all disasters.

So, how do we make certain that this never happens again and at the same time maintain our way of life? We don't.

The Gulf could be a dead body of water before it finally stops leaking as there is no gurantee that a "relief" well will stop it.

Cyclist
Cyclist's picture
Offline
Joined: 05/15/2007
PTC Observer

You are correct as usual, it is a leak.

Stephanie03
Stephanie03's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/10/2010
yes,

I second that.. It is not an oil spill, it is a "leak". And at the very least, Obama admitted that it's his mess to fix instead of denying it..

--Stephanie03
Your Forex Robot enthusiast

S. Lindsey
S. Lindsey's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/31/2008
U.S. and BP slow to accept Dutch expertise

"Three days after the explosion of the Deepwater Horizon in the Gulf of Mexico, the Dutch government offered to help.
It was willing to provide ships outfitted with oil-skimming booms, and it proposed a plan for building sand barriers to protect sensitive marshlands.
The response from the Obama administration and BP, which are coordinating the cleanup: “The embassy got a nice letter from the administration that said, ‘Thanks, but no thanks,'” said Geert Visser, consul general for the Netherlands in Houston."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/steffy/7043272.html?utm_sou...

Where was his acceptance then?

carbonunit52
carbonunit52's picture
Offline
Joined: 03/05/2008
Gulf oil catastrophe

This is not a spill. This is a major ecological catastrophe. The United States of America has managed to privatize profit while socializing risk. "Heck of a job" to all the spineless politicians and bureaucrats who have passed themselves off as leaders and patriots, allowing lax regulations to trump safety concerns, all in the name of the "Almighty Dollar". Now we have a nightmare unfolding in the Gulf of Mexico, with no apparent end in sight for months. Of course, now there are those that are accusing Obama of not doing enough, as if he has something to use and has not.

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
Politics?

Those who would politicize this disaster are afraid to look at the facts. We have had years of 'non-regulation' and 'making money' rather than looking at the risks being taken with our planet. Many think the 'environmentalists' are in la la land - but we had better wake up if we want our grandchildren to enjoy this planet!!

Joe Kawfi
Joe Kawfi's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/20/2009
Pelosi politicizes BP disaster

Pelosi blames Bush administration for BP oil spill.
By: Joel S. Gehrke Jr.
Special to the Examiner
05/29/10 7:38 AM EDT
Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., blamed the Bush administration for any lack of oversight leading up to the Gulf oil spill. The Obama administration, on the other hand, is blameless.

From Talk Radio News Service:

“Many of the people appointed in the Bush administration are still burrowed in the agencies that are supposed to oversee the [oil] industry,” Pelosi said when asked if Democrats could have prevented or mitigated the crisis by keeping a closer watch on the industry.

Added the Speaker, “the cozy relationships between the Bush administration’s agency leadership and the industry is clear…I’ve heard no complaints from my members about the way the president has handled it,” Pelosi stated.

On Friday, the Washington Examiner requested that Speaker Pelosi’s office release the list of Bush appointees to whom she was referring.

The Wedge
The Wedge's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/09/2008
Major bomb or popping a nuke

over a failed well as been done undersea by the old soviets years ago. It has worked and the radiation would be contained well by the sea. Why isn't this, or a large scale conventional bomb being considered?

AtHomeGym
AtHomeGym's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/18/2007
Wedge and Bombs

Think delivery might be a problem. Guess it's a little deep for a BUDS Tm, huh?

The Wedge
The Wedge's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/09/2008
AHG, we have done

undersea detonations before. Delivery is not a huge deal

Gort
Gort's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/28/2009
Wedge and AtHomeGym, Nuke the

Wedge and AtHomeGym, Nuke the Gulf? What the hell are you guys talking about? It’s bad enough, what is living in the Gulf now has to cope with all that oil and many will die. Whatever is left living, you want to expose to radiation poisoning? This ain’t some movie plot, its reality. Humans feed from the Gulf.

The Wedge
The Wedge's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/09/2008
Gort, look it up a bit

A very low yield bomb (nuclear) or a high yield conventional bomb would most likely be less damaging than the continuous spewing of oil at 1400 psi for the next 90 days or so. I would try the conventional one but look at the actual environmental impact of one vs the other. And it was done successfuly by the soviets in the 60's- I think above ground for most of the times that they did it. Yes humans eat from the gulf--and yes there is a lot more oil to be pumped into it for the next several months. What is better?

Gort
Gort's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/28/2009
Wedge, the Russians suggest

Wedge, the Russians suggest using a nuke in our coastal waters to stop the oil leaking into the Gulf of Mexico and you just snap it up, hook, line, and sinker?
Perhaps you can tell us how much food the Russians harvest from the areas they nuked? Or tell us why they stopped using this technique in 1979? While you’re at it, since when have you become so chummy with the Kremlin? ;-)

If the engineers at BP decide to use conventional explosives to stop the leak, well that is their call. I’m guessing they would still have to drill to plant the explosives at the proper locations. So I don’t think it’s as quick a fix as some would have you believe.

The oil leaking into the gulf is at least biodegradable and the gulf has a tropical to subtropical, climate that will assist that process. Right now we have a catastrophe that will impact the country for a year, or two, or three, or maybe longer.

IMHO, the use of a nuclear explosive will expose the gulf to radiation poisoning that could last a hundred years or more. At least some of the fishing ground would be closed forever. The radiation poisoning can still work its way into our food chain. Plus we still have to clean up the oil already spilled so the problem doesn’t just go away using this technique. It just makes the catastrophe worst.

S. Lindsey
S. Lindsey's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/31/2008
Learn a little will ya

before you go spouting off..
"How much natural radioactivity is found in the world's oceans?

All water on the Earth, including seawater, has some radionuclides in it. In the following table, the oceans' volumes were calculated from the 1990 World Almanac:

Pacific = 6.549 x 1017 m3
Atlantic = 3.095 x 1017 m3
Total = 1.3 x 1018 m3

http://physics.isu.edu/radinf/natural.htm

One nuke in the gulf will generate far less Radioactive isotopes and "poisoning" than already NATURALLY occurs..

Less knee jerk there gort and more common sense.

Gort
Gort's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/28/2009
S.Lindsey, did Joe Kawfi put

S.Lindsey, did Joe Kawfi put you up to this? Tell us, are you going to put up 'no swimming' signs for the fish when your done bombing? Do you think one bomb will be enough? What if it makes the situation worst, more bombs? Get a grip.

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
Kevin Cosner

American ingenuity at it's best - accompanied with financial backing. We're now hearing of other innovative methods of cleaning up this mess. It is interesting that this administration has worked out an agreement with a powerful oil company to accept it's responsibility in this tragedy and taken the financial responsibility off of the backs of the 'taxpayers' - and yet the vocal minority are still screaming that 'change' in the last 18 months has not come fast enough to undue the damage of years of 'deregulation'. Interesting.

S. Lindsey
S. Lindsey's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/31/2008
Spin cycle is on

18 months and no oversite from the Libs.. Great talking points.. Facts are lite though there DM.

60 days out and now Obama meets with BP.. Yep that FAST action is a change in DC. BP has never said they were not responsible.. So what was there to "work" out?

Interesting indeed.. Oh and that vocal "minority" is not really a "minority is it..

"Most Americans are angry about the government's slow response, the poll finds, with 54 percent saying they had strong feelings about the bureaucracy's reaction. Many doubt that Washington could really help them if they were a disaster victim.

The survey found that 52 percent don't approve of Obama's handling of the spill, a significant increase from last month when a big chunk of Americans withheld judgment. "Huffington Post

Just 32% APPROVE there DM.. so keep that spin cycle on.. it isn't working.

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
Dear Lindsey

Stay current. Last night's news doesn't always hold true in the light of a new day. When checks are issued, and people begin to regain some hope in the blighted gulf area - we'll see if they are 'polled'. (I can 'feel' Lindsey scrambling for his 'information' to present his 'right' facts - LOL)

Joe Kawfi
Joe Kawfi's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/20/2009
"It's not his job to create laws. It's his job to enforce laws."

CNBC Reporter Attacks Obama for Creating 'His Own Sense of a Legal System' over Oil Spill

"He fired the CEO of General Motors. He circumvented the rights of bond holders in the GM situation and now he's confiscated $20 billion from a private company - wait a minute - to set up, quote, ‘a financial and legal framework' that already exists," Nesto continued. "It's not his job to create laws. It's his job to enforce laws."

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
Talking Points are out!

. and Kawfi can speak!!

Joe Kawfi
Joe Kawfi's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/20/2009
Obama Compares 9/11 to Gulf Oil Spill…

No, Mr. President, The Oil Spill does not have echos of 9/11. It just doesn’t. The days that followed September 11th our Nation’s Heart was broken. We cried in each others arms. People roamed the city searching for loved ones. Men and Women dug with their bare hands to search in the rubble. The smell. The smoke. The Rain. The Rain. More Digging. What September 11th was and what the Oil spill is are two very different things.
We were attacked on that morning, the morning with the Sky as blue as a cornflower, the air as warm as sunlight and the breeze as cool as the ocean. It was not an accident. As tragic as the loss of the 11 men on that rig is, it is not an echo of 9/11. Nothing is. Nothing ever will be. You cannot compare the two, not to invoke emotions in the American public. Shame on you.

Those minutes that President Bush sat, in classroom full of small children was Cool, Calm and Collected. The “cool, calm, and collected” you try to perpetrate, but fall short of. You have yet to prove yourself to the American People. Finger pointing and lack of communicating your way through issue after issue. With out shame you will now use this tragic accident to push through your agenda. Is this why you let it go for so long? Five minutes in a classroom got the prior Commander in Chief crucified. 56 days and you are just getting your act together. Arresting media and private citizens for taking pictures. Yelling at the Press for asking you questions you don’t want to answer. Where is the leadership you promised? This is not about you “plugging the hole” It is about you standing on a pile with bullhorn in hand saying “I CAN HEAR YOU!”
Because obviously you can’t or you won’t. Which is it, Sir? We are waiting for an answer.

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
What Obama said

'In the same way that our view of our vulnerabilities and our foreign policy was shaped profoundly by 9/11,' he said, 'I think this disaster is going to shape how we think about the environment and energy for many years to come.'

Joe Kawfi
Joe Kawfi's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/20/2009
Victims of terrorist attack speak

"Some people who lost relatives in the attacks criticized Obama's decision to compare an environmental disaster with a terror plot in which almost 3,000 people died. "He's off-base," said former New York fire department deputy chief Jim Riches, whose son died at the World Trade Centre. "These were terrorist attacks, not something caused by people trying to make money.""

"Jack Lynch, whose firefighter son Michael was killed in 2001, said: "To compare an environmental accident, if that's what you call it, to a premeditated terrorist attack is ridiculous. Politicians have no sense of reality.""

Joe Kawfi
Joe Kawfi's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/20/2009
"Daily Show" Mocks Obama For Waging War Against The Oil Spill
S. Lindsey
S. Lindsey's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/31/2008
gort.. I am just pointing out

that many knee jerk reactions are just that.. I don't have the answers. However a very large conventional or small nuke could very clear the debris if not seal the hole and could allow then a better access to actually cap it.. All options should be on the table.

The In-Situ plan should have been implemented but was not because of "Environmental" concerns.. The berms should have been built but were not because of "Environmental" concerns..

Results... More oil in the Gulf and more damage to the Environment.

The Law of unintended Consequences at work...

AtHomeGym
AtHomeGym's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/18/2007
Nuc Underwater Detonation

I can only find one--Crosroads Baker--and that was done only at 90 feet.

Cyclist
Cyclist's picture
Offline
Joined: 05/15/2007
Roffs' new oil trajectory forecast...

The surface oil has become more apparent from the SAR imagery from Mississippi Sound to Pensacola Bay. This is the oil that we had observed last week from the RGB imagery which now appears to be moving eastward toward Choctawhatchee Bay and Destin, Florida.

ROFFS' Forcast

Gort
Gort's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/28/2009
S.Lindsey, I see you’re

S.Lindsey, I see you’re trying to make a little political hay out of the BP oil leak in the gulf? Good luck with that. The next time you will hear the phrase, “Drill Baby Drill,” will be in democratic campaign ads. Along with a little video from the Republican National convention will drive home the point.

BTW, why are you so anxious to have the government bailout BP? What happened to your firm conservative belief in the free market and it’s ability to regulate itself? You a little worried about BP not making good on its promises?

BTW2, Al Gore is the wrong guy for this mission. His style is to avoid disaster before it happens. Maybe Dick Cheney can go in his place, puff up like a blow fish, put on a mean face, and scare that nasty old oil back down the drill pipe!

JeffC
JeffC's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/21/2006
Yes SL It's Obama's fault

What would you suggest he do that is not already being done?

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
Lindsey

Please, please - share your wisdom so that we can end this catastrophe!! Lindsey for president!!

Gort
Gort's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/28/2009
Davids mom, I don’t know

Davids mom, I don’t know where S.Lindsey is this weekend. I’ve been chumming the waters for him all weekend and haven’t got a nibble.

Perhaps he went to Arizona to protest the protestors? Who knows, it might have been him standing on the grassy knowl, wearing his mirrored sunglasses, tea bags dangling from the bill of his cap, calling out, "Show me your papers" that got the riot started.

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
Deleted by Poster

.

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
Gort

I bet he's just full of BBQ - and too tired to respond. Loved the visual you shared!!!LOL!

Robert W. Morgan
Robert W. Morgan's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/26/2005
I'll take this one Mr. Lindsey

What can and should (and should have already been) done is to stop forcing the oil companies offshore to drill in mile deep water because of imaginary concerns about drilling close to shore in shallower waters or better yet on land or extracting that stuff up in North Dakota or wherever it is.

Think about it. If this leak happened in 200 feet of water, it would have been fixed the next day, but they weren't in 200 feet of water because the feds who have kowtowed to the enviornmental creeps forced them to be way offshore in mile deep water.

Obama had it exactly right when he opened up some areas previously not available, but then this thing happened and he had to withdraw because the knee-jerk reaction was "all drilling is bad" instead of a reasoned response and reaction like, ahem - mine.

Cyclist
Cyclist's picture
Offline
Joined: 05/15/2007
Robert,

The reason why we are drilling ever deeper in the gulf is because that's where the oil is. The shallower wells are yielding less as they mature. Back in 2006 oil reserves were discovered deep in the gulf that could increase the US total reserves by 50%.

Story

carbonunit52
carbonunit52's picture
Offline
Joined: 03/05/2008
Robert strikes out

So, the solution to the current Gulf oil catastrophe is: going back in time and not making BP drill the well in that location? Stee-rike one!

The feds kowtowed to the "enviornmental(sic) creeps? How about the feds got in bed with the oil companies and ignored the environmental concerns? Stee-rike two!

Obama's reaction was not "All drilling is bad", it was "Obviously, we need to reassess and fix our offshore drilling procedures". Mistaking his reaction as knee-jerk instead of your own? Stee-rike three!

Gort
Gort's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/28/2009
Mr. Peabody and his pet boy,

Mr. Peabody and his pet boy, Sherman are preparing the Way-Back machine now. How far do you want to go back? :-)

JeffC
JeffC's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/21/2006
Ah yes Robert

Spoken like a true no-nothing. Obviously without any knowledge at all, you based your comment on disdain of environmentalists and fevered imagination. Your assumption that the oil companies cannot lease and drill in 200 feet of water is totally erroneous. Here is a map of oil leases in the gulf and platforms. As you can see, they cover just oodles of area:

Oil Lease Map

Here is another map of the Deepwater location:

Deepwater Horizon Location of Block MC252a>

Your "reasoned response and reaction" is fatally flawed, not surprising since it was devoid of facts.

And one of your "imaginary concerns" is spewing 19,000 gallons of oil per day at 17,000 psi into the gulf.

You did make a good stand in for Lindsey though.

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
Thanks Jeff

For the visuals - and facts!

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
Mr. Morgan

Thanks for 'helping' Lindsey. However - too much logial, original thinking to represent Lindsey. My only comment - the 'concerns' aren't imaginary anymore!

JeffC
JeffC's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/21/2006
Oops, double post

...

S. Lindsey
S. Lindsey's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/31/2008
I'mmmm Baaaaccckkkk and oh Drill Baby Drill...

Yes all I have read, with some amusement I might add, the summations of those found here.

Jeff yours, Gorts and others comments would be some what useful if not for a little issue known as Anwar. This barren and desolate wasteland literally floating in oil is off limits to drilling as is most of the Mid West.

In just these two areas we have enough domestic production of useful oil for years of total use for the US. But we can't drill in either area.. Why?

In Mobile rigs reside with fisheries close inshore. There is oil in shallow waters... Where technology we currently have and depth is no impediment to stopping spills.

"McMoRan Exploration Co. today announced what it said could be one of the largest oil and natural gas discoveries in the shallow waters of the Gulf of Mexico in decades.
The discovery was made at the Davy Jones ultra-deep prospect located on South Marsh Island Block 230 in about 20 feet of water and 10 miles off the Louisiana coast, the New Orleans company and Energy XXI, one of its Houston partners in the project, said in statements this morning.
The well was drilled to 28,263 feet and found a 135-foot column of hydrocarbon-filled sands in the Wilcox section of the Eocene and Paleocene geologic trends.
That puts the estimated the size of the discovery close to 2 trillion cubic feet of resources, rivaling some oil and gas discoveries in the deep water Gulf."
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/energy/6809339.html

The USA needs Energy plain and simple. Wind mills and Solar panels are currently in use but their total energy output in megawatts is negligible.
We cannot risk the future of this Country on some miracle moon shot that may or may not pan out..

We need to drill in Anwar, off of California and Florida as well as the Mid West. We need to access our sources of Energy.

When technology and distribution catches up then and only then can we switch to Natural Gas or something else... We need the Economy and we need the Oil revenues to build this so called "Green" energy.. Where do you think the funding is going to come from to develop it?

Yes this Government note I did not say this Administration had plans for this disaster.. Also note however they did nothing to implement those plans..

And yes Obama has a share of the blame.. that is if it was Bush's fault for Katrina then Obama is just as much to blame for this..

What he is most responsible for however is his lack of being a President in a time of an Emergency. He finally took responsibility 39 days later..

Gort
Gort's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/28/2009
S.Lindsey, there you are, did

S.Lindsey, there you are, did you enjoy your trip to Arizona? Not much happening around here. Ben Nelms sent out the cattle call for a Tea Party meeting. Congressman Lynn Westmoreland and D.A. King will be guest speakers. The topic is illegal aliens and amnesty. Going to be held at some county club.

I can see it now, the Tea Party, sipping on tall glasses of ice-tea, as the speakers vilify the relatives and friends of the people serving them drinks and cutting the grass outside.

You must be giddy with excitement?

JeffC
JeffC's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/21/2006
What would you have Obama do?

Bush could have easily done several things differently after Katrina, starting with having someone at FEMA watch the TV news so that they would know that thousands of people were in the Superdome without food and water days after the event. There is a long list...

Exactly what would you have Obama do that he has not done? What plan was not implemented?

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
Lindsey

Exactly what would you have Obama do that he has not done? What plan was not implemented?

Inquiring minds are anxiously awaiting for a cogent answer to this question.

S. Lindsey
S. Lindsey's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/31/2008
Jeff/DM/Snif look up "In-Situ" burn plan

The 1994 Spill Response plan was sit up just for these types of emergency's. The use of "Fire Booms" called for in the plan could burn up to 1800 barrels of oil per HOUR that's 75,000 gallons of oil per hour per boom.

So when the leak occurred and it was FINALLY realized it was bad really bad the Government called the only company that had these booms. Elastec/American Marine, shipped the only boom it had in stock.. 1 boom..

Other Country's where contacted to "borrow" their booms but the burn was put off until Environmental impacts could be done..

In other words Government bureaucracy got in the way of a possible solution. Now it is too late.. the oil is already impacting the shores.

This could have possibly been stopped a 100 miles from shore but just like Louisiana trying now for weeks to get "permission" to build sand dunes before the oil reached them and being delayed again for an Environmental impact study.. the Government can not do anything quickly..

So what could OBAMA have done differently..

Implement the plan.. told the hard left liberal environmental nutjobs to go suck sand and got the booms in action.. allowed LA to build the dang sand barrier and been seen as a leader..

Not someone who can't make a decision unless by committee and paying homage to the Environmental nutjobs in his cabinet.

Does that answer your question?

carbonunit52
carbonunit52's picture
Offline
Joined: 03/05/2008
SL
S. Lindsey wrote:

Does that answer your question?

Ah, not really. How would Obama have gotten the fire booms in action when there were no fire booms to be had? As to the sand barriers, the devil is in the details. Here are some samples: a long time to build, a good chance that they would make the situation worse instead of better, using resources that would be better used elsewhere...but it does make good political theater. When the going gets tough, the tough run to the federal government, the same as it ever was.

S. Lindsey
S. Lindsey's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/31/2008
Carb let me correct your assumptions

There are a number of these booms world wide.. Brazil keeps up to a hundred just for these types of spills/leaks.. I believe a C5 could easily have made the trip in under a couple of days. The tech has been around since 94 and was used very successfully on the Valdez spill.

As to the sand barriers one never knows since Jindal could never get approval.. but a long time to build.. well ask Dubai about that. The Palm Islands were built on dredged sand for a total length of 520km.. and they did it under 3 years.. They are so large they can be seen from space.

So I believe a sand berm stretching for a few miles could have been done in a week or so.. before the oil hit shore. What's worse oil laden shores and marshes or some disturbed sea bottoms?

We will never know will we.

carbonunit52
carbonunit52's picture
Offline
Joined: 03/05/2008
I stand corrected

I said that there were no fire booms available. Initially, this was true. Later, one sample was available from the manufacturer and up to six were available from Brazil, making a total of not too many. And also too, neither the fire booms nor the sand barriers would help against the underwater plums that have formed. The cumulative stupidity of both political parties' rhetoric is insignificant when compared to the destructive power of human unconscious actions.

S. Lindsey
S. Lindsey's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/31/2008
Carb correct

on the plumes.. These booms would do no good of which Petrobras reported they had dozens.. Brazil has the 6 you mentioned as additional backup to the State owned Oil Company.

Addendum added: Figured Sniff or others would yell show me your source well here it is..

http://www.ipieca.org/members/downloads/AGM08/presentations/oilspill/6._...

Equipment and Materials Quantity
EnviroCat oil recovery boat 08
Support boat and barges 34
Contention booms for different uses 200,000 meters (Hidro Fire Booms)
Oil skimmers (different types) 230 units
Pumps for oil 100
Temporary oil storage 384
Absorbent booms 100,000 meters
Absorbent mats 85,000 units
Chemical dispersants 50,000 liters
Dispersant application. (Heli and Boat)15 units
Bioremediation agents 38,000kg
Oiled shoreline clean-up devices for 2000 people
Communication equipment for 200 people

Source: Information System to Support Emergencies (SIAE)
PETROBRAS.

However the chemical dispersant would have helped. But these could not be used due to Environmental maybes..

Look I am an Environmentalist as I believe so are you.. I absolutely abhor what is happening.. At the same time Nationalizing the Oil companies as some have suggested is not the answer.

Also the answer is not to stop drilling and shut down the wells.. Can't happen. My point here was the hypocrisy of the left. Bush was almost castrated over Katrina.. The Republicans said exactly what Jeff and others are saying here what more could he have done?

The old saying "good for the goose and gander" and all that comes to mind.

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
Just a question

Why wasn't this 'solution type equipment' acquired and paid for during previous administrations? Would citizens have willingly paid higher taxes for this 'protection'? Why weren't reported safety infractions corrected before this catastrophe? Gosh, isn't Monday quarterbacking fun? Anyone, conservative/or liberal - who was concerned about our economic situation for the past 10 years - just may have questioned the 'wisdom' of building these palm islands for the 'oil' companies. Disturbed sea bottoms can eradicate an entire industry in the United States. (Fishing) . . .and we know now! (But thanks for your answer)

S. Lindsey
S. Lindsey's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/31/2008
DM you asked

I answered.. Unlike you. You don't like that answer well sorry I guess.

Jeff asked "Exactly what would you have Obama do that he has not done? What plan was not implemented?"

You responded...

"Inquiring minds are anxiously awaiting for a cogent answer to this question."

I gave you one.. Implement the Plan.. Allowed LA to build the Berm..

Again I ask.. Which is worse... 16,000 barrels of oil per day washing up on shore... or disturbing the sea floor? By the way not much worse than a passing Hurricane or sea quake.. Mother Nature is by far more destructive then we are.

S. Lindsey
S. Lindsey's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/31/2008
Correction on the berms...

Never let it be said I will not correct myself.. Jindal asked to build 23 berms.. The Administration said they could build 6 and the Government would only pay for 1 the other 5 Louisiana would have to "Shell" out the dough.

No Fire booms and no berms sorry sucks to be you Louisiana.. That will teach you to elect a Republican for Governor.

S. Lindsey
S. Lindsey's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/31/2008
Dutch release memo to Washington and BP .."We have booms"

3 days into the Gulf Disaster the Dutch sent a memo to the Obama administration and BP. They said they have ships and fire booms and would gladly send them to the Gulf to help.

Our response.. Thanks.. but.. NO THANKS

3 days into this and help that was offered was rejected..

Now a report comes out that a Company in Maine has MILES of booms and have been telling the Government and BP about them since this begun and ONLY NOW 50+ days and counting is the Government getting around to them..

WHY?

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
In-Situ burn plan

This plan was for 'oil spills'. THIS IS AN OIL LEAK - THAT HAS NOT BEEN 'FIXED' YET!

S. Lindsey
S. Lindsey's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/31/2008
Uhh.. it's difference is words only...

Oil floating either by spill or by leak is still oil floating..

I don't get your point?

The plan works for either since there is no difference. That doesn't detract from the fact the the plan could have been implemented and was not..

You asked I answered... again.

Poor deflection DM Tee it up and try again...

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
Lindsey/words

I guess one could use the words interchangeably – but boy, we’re having a problem with the leak aren’t we?

leak
   Show Spelled[leek] Show IPA
–noun
1.
an unintended hole, crack, or the like, through which liquid, gas, light, etc., enters or escapes: a leak in the roof.
2.
an act or instance of leaking.
3.
any means of unintended entrance or escape.

spill
1   Show Spelled [spil] Show IPA verb,spilled or spilt, spill·ing, noun
–verb (used with object)
1.
to cause or allow to run or fall from a container, esp. accidentally or wastefully: to spill a bag of marbles; to spill milk.

Click here

S. Lindsey
S. Lindsey's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/31/2008
OK DM if semantics makes you feel better

but again I was asked and I answered.. When will you return the favor?

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
Lindsey

I know you can sound out words - it's your lack of comprehension that is astounding. You may not agree with my 'answers' - but I have answered you as you have answered me - right? I don't agree with your answer, but respect your attempt to make your point. I and others don't agree with you - but that is what discussions are for. Now you may have the last word - I'm going to watch Jay Leno, Night!

S. Lindsey
S. Lindsey's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/31/2008
DM.. I can't even remember how many times

I have asked you direct questions.. You never answer. And that is a FACT.
But I understand the spin.. Nite.

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
Lindsey

What he is most responsible for however is his lack of being a President in a time of an Emergency. He finally took responsibility 39 days later..

You know - it's statements like the above that do you in. There was an oil company who lost 11 of its employees who first started shifting responsibility to others. There were the oil executives who shamelessly pointed fingers at one another before a government committee. After reported failures for all concerned to follow/adhere to safety regulations that they had been sited for - the President of the United States finally had to step in and assume GOVERNMENT responsibility for PRIVATE incompetence. Lives have been lost, a way of life for our coastal residents is in extreme danger - and apparently BP was not prepared to handle its responsibility. We have safety regulations - that have been/are being ignored in the name of GREED.

S. Lindsey
S. Lindsey's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/31/2008
DM and it's pronouncements like yours that show a seriously

flawed conception of business..

First what safety regulations were ignored? Is this part of that same secret knowledge source that you are privy to? You know that secret knowledge of "those" radicals that have infiltrated the Teaparty? That info?

Because the last news report I saw (today) was no one knows what happened and may be Months if ever..

"A reply to Mr. Hedlund
Submitted by Davids mom on Mon, 03/19/2007 - 8:49pm.
We have a wonderful President whom a Democrat Congress decrees as a fool and condemns the good he is doing.

With the current president’s poor approval rating, I think it’s fair to say that it is not only a newly elected Congress controlled by Democrats that view the current president as a fool. It is difficult to ascertain the ‘good’ that he is doing when daily we find out that his trusted advisors have been lying to the American public with impunity. One shouldn't condemn what one cannot identify. We should be able to list his 'good' deeds regarding the following: Katrina; Military Equipment; Medical care for our wounded; Cost of living; etc., etc., etc. The list is embarrassingly short."

You see here DM you blamed Bush for Katrina and his "lack" of response.. I simply related yours and other liberals damming Bush for his response to a Localized Emergency to Obama's much larger National Emergency..

You see DM Katrina hit August 29th Bush moved the Military in specifically the USS Bataan and setup relief efforts. While the Navy moved more assets in place as well as Air and Army National Guard units as many as 10,000 personnel JUST 2 DAYS AFTER KATRINA at the behest of Bush..

So Obama waits 39 days to finally admit it was his responsibility as President to "oversee" this Environmental disaster and not depend on BP and somehow you turn that into a criticism of me???

Now as to your "Greed" statement.. What is a good profit margin in your mind? 10% 15% 20%? Most businesses work off of a 20+% margin. You might be surprised to learn that most oil companies operate around 8-10%. Far less then most any other business. Profitable yes not greed..

http://money.cnn.com/2008/04/29/markets/thebuzz/

Just because they sell more of a particular product then almost everyone does not make them greedy.. Profits are not evil DM.. Without a healthy profit BP would not be able to spend the BILLION dollars plus this is going to cost to clean it all up.. Without those profits the American Taxpayer would foot the bill.

Your simplistic statement and ardent defense of Obama smacks of ideology and talking points without substance.

AtHomeGym
AtHomeGym's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/18/2007
What Bush Did or Didn't Do Was

primarily based on failure to act by incompetent Louisiana officials, both the Governor and Mayor of New Orleans.

meanoldconservatives
meanoldconservatives's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/09/2008
AHG

I believe Nagin made it clear he preferred to be known as the "Mayor of Chocolate New Orleans". Did they ever formally change the name???

AtHomeGym
AtHomeGym's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/18/2007
MOC & Nagin

Yes, believe he did indeed say that but no name change. He should be known as "No School Bus Driver Ray".

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
Business? SL

Is that your concern? Business? 11 of BP employees died! (We won't even mention the death toll of Katrina.) I'm not defending anyone here - I'm bringing to the forefront of our attention a group of people who profess concern for BUSINESS over LIFE! I am concerned about businesses that feel that getting more bang for their buck is more important than the SAFETY of our citizens and an American industry. Your 'statements' based on your ideology and defending a failed administration is pathetic. Everyone here - including you has acknowledged that the Bush administration failed. What is interesting is your insistence that Obama is worse. Oh well - some are tired of his trying to 'please' the opposition. . . when it is apparent that the supporters of the 'opposition' are the big money guys who have been 'left alone' too long! I'm not the only one who is checking out the 'safety report' of BP.

At first, BP responded to allegations that it had cut corners and put savings ahead of safety by diverting blame to its partners in the Gulf well. Now it says it is solely focused on stopping the leak.

(By the way - you shared Mr. Hedlunds statement - not mine)

Check out this article - criminal charges may be next

S. Lindsey
S. Lindsey's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/31/2008
Yes DM Business

Nice working in a slam by implying I don't care about the deaths.. but do you know how many have died in America trying to provide us energy..?

Try hundreds.. 96 just building the Hoover Dam.. So a loss of life while tragic is not new.

Your mantra of Corporate greed a theme you use every time you wish to blame Capitalism for something is what I was pointing out.

Like I said profit is not evil. Without profit you would not be able to retire. Without profit BP could not clean this up..

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
SL

Without profit BP could not clean this up.

With proper concern with safety/less concern for profit - there just may not have been 'this' to clean up.

'Just expressing another point of view'

Oops - their latest attempt failed today. This is an engineer's nightmare - a true catastrophe that will take years to overcome. . .possibly generations. THIS IS NOT GOOD BUSINESS - when you spend more than anticipated profits 'fixing' a mistake. Nothing naive about that.

So a loss of life while tragic is not new.

Even 'war' experts have developed strategies and equipment that makes the loss of life less than in the past. Safety regulations are there for a purpose and should be adhered to and MONITORED! Someone knew the risk inherent with BP's methods. I guess they just weren't listened to - but I hope in the future, the visionaries who think about the possible outcomes of 'risk taking' will be heard - and plans for the negative 'what if' will be in place. Your insistence that Obama should have accepted responsibility for 'private enterprise's failure' is so hypocritical. The banks, investment companies, and oil companies have shown what is important to them. Now when 'government' (who represents us) steps in with regulations to protect the American people from such irresponsible action - I imagine you will be against that. Oh well. . .please have patience with my naivety

S. Lindsey
S. Lindsey's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/31/2008
I just wondered where you stood..

I noticed you never mentioned the 25 Coal Miners that died recently. So I just wondered why the 11 were oh so more important. Could it be the Media Matters talking point on how to turn the criticism off of Obama and back on the speaker??

You see the problem here is credibility.. If Bush was at fault for Katrina.. then so is Obama for Deep Horizon.

That's the problem with playing the blame game.. Eventually the players switch sides and the blamers never like it when it their turn to take it...

Gort
Gort's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/28/2009
S.Lindsey, ahhh, the Hoover

S.Lindsey, ahhh, the Hoover Dam, it takes you back in time, don’t it? A simpler time in our history. It was a time in America when it was more socially acceptable to grind men up in the gears of industry. Makes you kind of nostalgic for the good old days, eh buddy?

Observerofu
Observerofu's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/14/2010
Non-Partisan panel finds BP did not trade safety for dollars

"WASHINGTON (AP) -- The BP oil rig explosion and spill was not about anyone purposely trading money for safety, investigators on a special presidential commission said Monday. Instead it was more about seemingly acceptable risks adding up to disaster."

http://manufacturing.net/article.aspx?id=267004

Hmmm When you jump to conclusions you never know just where you are going to land.

S. Lindsey
S. Lindsey's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/31/2008
Time line on response to oil spill
S. Lindsey
S. Lindsey's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/31/2008
Breaking News.. BP asked to Drill off the coast of La. Feds said

NO...

The Deep Horizon well was originally set to be off the coast of Louisiana in 500 feet of water. The Governor of LA. approved the plan and BP was given permission.. The FED came in and vetoed the plan and told BP they had to drill in 5000 feet of water.. Never mind no contingency plans for a broken well at that depth existed. Never mind the Law was the Oil Companies were responsible for 75 Million in damages and that's it..

Never mind BP had never drilled at that depth before.. The Fed made them move the platform to that depth..at that location..

BP should have said no.. but the spot had been actively leaking oil "Naturally" for years.. BP saw easy money.

The Federal Government saw control and thought they were doing the "right" thing..

Was it worth it?

Joe Kawfi
Joe Kawfi's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/20/2009
Obama Administration To Sue Arizona Over Immigration Law

Clinton: Obama Administration To Sue Arizona Over Immigration Law

The same administration that REFUSES to prosecute the black panthers for voter intimidation wants to sue citizens for enforcing FEDERAL law.

....and then announces it in a foreign country - un-freaking-believable

AtHomeGym
AtHomeGym's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/18/2007
Lawsuit

Hold up joe, don't blv there's any confirmation that this little release by our SecState is accurate. AZ Gov doesn't appear to know about it.

S. Lindsey
S. Lindsey's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/31/2008
Just for clarification

Arizona is being sued.

AtHomeGym
AtHomeGym's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/18/2007
Arizona Being Sued and

some Democratic Governors are not happy! BTW, in our Nation's history, is there another example of a State being sued by the Fed for such a reason?

Courthouserules
Courthouserules's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/02/2010
GYM

Well (as Reagan always said) I think we fought a Civil War over just such state uppidyness! About a million killed and about a million withour legs and arms!
How soon we forget what makes us the UNITED STATES.