Big election night

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JeffC
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I'm pulling for Mark Critz to replace Murtha, Rand Paul in Kentucky to stick it to Cheney and his coven, Rep. Joe Sestak in Pennsylvania (Go Navy!) over Specter, and don't care in Arkansas but leaning towards Lt. Gov. Bill Halter over Blanche Lincoln.

Waiting for the results.

JeffC
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One for Rand Paul!

14 minutes after the polls closed! A big slap for Cheney and Mitch! Go Rand.

S. Lindsey
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Oh November is looking goooood

Rand Paul and the Teaparty wins.. go figure.

Chris P. Bacon
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The magic number is 28
S. Lindsey wrote:

Rand Paul and the Teaparty wins.. go figure.

The magic number is 28, Lindsey. That's the historical average of how many Congressional seats are lost by the ruling party in a midterm election.

You probably don't want to click on this LINK, as it might upset your carefully constructed preconceived notions.

NUK_1
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Historical averages may not matter this year

By virtue of being the majority party right now, the Dems are going to take the most damage from the widespread disgust with US politicians/incumbents right now. I don't think the tea party and the wave of anger at politicians is a passing fad any longer. This was brewing long before Obama was elected and a whole lot of people have now decided to indeed "throw the bums out."

I wouldn't be surprised to even see some "progressives" knocking off incumbents of any stripe...if u are an incumbent right now, you are dirt. I have no sympathy for any of them either as they brought all this disgust on themselves, both Dem and Repub.

S. Lindsey
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Nuk correct

The disgust with Washington is greater than most realize.

Some here will dismiss anything.. Others of us know what is happening.

S. Lindsey
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Breaking News.. Specter is a ghost..

One more incumbent down a whole lot more to go..

Change we can really believe in.. A change in Government.

"As voters considered his fate throughout Pennsylvania, Sen. Arlen Specter warned on Tuesday that without him Democrats may not be able to fend off a tea party “takeover.”"

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/37426.html#ixzz0oL4bdgdR

TEAPARTY/AMERICA 2
Progressives 0

NUK_1
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Good riddance to Specter

He was lousy as a Repub and the same as a Dem, though you could also add total "sell out" and "political whore" to his resume at that point. It was past time for this ego-maniacal blowhard to hit the road. I don't care if he's replaced by a diehard ultra-lefty because Specter has done nothing to earn another term in office and is so detached from anything besides himself that it's sickening. He quit "serving the people" a long time ago and the people have responded by kicking him to the curb.

JeffC
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You're claiming Specter SL?

NUK is right. Good riddance.

You're claiming Specter's defeat as a TEA Party win? How on earth do you figure that? There wasn't a single TEA Party vote in the Democratic election and we threw out a opportunistic Republican who couldn't win his own party's election for a real Democrat. Seriously, who would you rather have as a candidate in Pennsylvania if you were a Democrat, Specter or a young, vibrant, US Naval Academy educated 3-Star Admiral? Tooney is the TEA Party guy in Penn. and Specter never would have beaten him. Seatak probably will. TEA Party -1.

Rand Paul won the Republican primary but demonstrated the TEA Party's weakness in organization. Even tapping into Ron Paul's organization and being the strongest TEA candidate out there, he still came in third. Both of the Dems, Conway and Mongiardo, beat him in votes. In fact, Dem vs Rep in Kentucky, the vote was 514,173 (59.4%) Dem and 350,783 (40.5%) Rep. Not that I don't appreciate the slap in the face to Mitch McConnell and Cheney. If Paul does end up winning, I hope he doesn't follow his dad and load up the budget with earmarks then vote against it knowing it will pass. You do know that Ron Paul is one of the biggest requesters of earmark legislation don't you? I wonder how many TEA Partiers know that, hmmm? TEA Party +1.

The real TEA Party race was for Murtha's seat and they got crushed by Critz, 53% to 45%. TEA Party -1.

All in all, the elections looked like a solid loss for the TEAs. Their "national strategy" is doomed unless they organize and get out the vote. Tip O'Neil tried to tell you that all politics is local.

S. Lindsey
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You see your way I see it my way

Jeff.. Specter came out against the Teaparty members.. You have to remember I have been telling you for over a year that many TP members are democrats emphasis on the little "d". The real moderates threw him out.. Now they face a very strong Republican which was why Specter ran from the Republican party.
The TP did not have a big dog in the Murtha hunt.. They are focusing on November for that seat.

"The race was considered so close and so important that Democrats called on former President Bill Clinton to campaign for Critz, while Republicans turned to U.S. Sen. Scott Brown of Massachusetts to boost Burns. Vice President Joe Biden and former GOP House Speaker Newt Gingrich were among other political notables who made campaign cameos."

53% to 45% is not a crushing there Jeff in a very LIBERAL State.. You also have to remember Critz Ran against PELOSI and OBAMA's Healthcare". He ran on a CONSERVATIVE platform.. So a sentimental vote for Murtha's aid in a Liberal State for someone who ran as a Conservative.. I think that's a net zero..

So:
Teaparty 2
Liberal (not progressive) 1

Net 1

JeffC
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Can I borrow those rose colored glasses?

The Murtha seat was heavily contested by both sides and is exactly the type of seat that the Rs must pick up in the Fall if they are going to take the House. Your "very LIBERAL state" sounds like whistling past the graveyard. There was one district in the United States that voted for Kerry in 2004 that Obama lost to McCain. Guess which one? The Rs are crying in their beer and even more telling, FOX and the talk radio wings of the Republican Party are talking about the Arizona immigration law today instead of hawking their monster win.

As for Specter, have it your way if you want. If y'all want to purge the Republican Party then claim a victory when the Ds reject your outcasts then that suits me. In November the Ds will still have a majority with some new Democratic faces and the TEA Party can claim a smashing victory because some incumbents were defeated.

Also, I was looking at Rand Paul's website. Wasn't he for abolishing the Department of Education and privatizing Social Security? Somebody should tell him that those issues have mysteriously vanished from his site. I wonder how that happened? Don't tell me that the TEA candidates are now going to try to move to the center. Maybe on their trek left they'll run into Scott Brown.

Chris P. Bacon
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The Tea Party got stomped

Critz beat Burns 53 to 45% (the remaining 2% voted for the LIBERAL PARTY candidate!) in a Congressional district that voted for McCain in 2008.

Burns had wunderkind Tea Party Savior Scott Brown campaignin' for him, to no avail.
He was the featured speaker at the Johnstown Tea Party rally.
Malkin's Hot Air website was begging the Tea Party to turn out at the polls.
They did.
There just weren't enough of them.

Bottom Line: The Tea Party got stomped in a conservative Pennsylvania district.

The Wedge
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Ha Ha Ha

A conservative Pennsylvania district? The district that has the special election due to the death of John Murtha? John Murtha, that towering figure of Conservatism. What a laughable statement from you. There are many more democrats in that district than republicans. And I wouldn't take voting for McCain as a sign of conservative strength there. They voted against Obama handily in the democratic primary. Most likely a larger percentage of racist democrats in that district than in the national average.

NUK_1
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Can't agree, Wedge

All i have to say is Scott Brown won an open election for Ted Kennedy's seat. The voting trend yesterday to me scream anti-incumbent, but not necessarily anti-Obama or anti-Dem. Murtha was a long-time power but he wasn't a Ted Kennedy and the voters in his district aren't near as liberal as Kennedy's.

If there was a tidal wave against Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Dems.....that seat in PA goes Repub and there are Repubs dancing in the streets today instead of trying to spin it. That was the indicator and the results overall seem to mean voters hate incumbents but they might be replaced by very liberal or very conservative people; not that the voters are so sick of the powers-that-be right now to elect anyone with an "R" in front of their names.

Rand Paul getting elected was a win for the tea party movement and a big win for busting the Repub tent wide open. There isn't much doubt that Rand is a Libertarian running as a Repub in order to gain easier access to simply having your name on the ballot in the first place and shares very little in common with the last administration. That's the most noticeable impact race of yesterday besides Specter going down to another Dem and LIncoln having trouble with other Dems.

I just hope Rand doesn't turn out to be like his Dad and suddenly become unable to speak without scowling and growling and also lying out of his backside as Ron Paul has done for the last decade or so. Rand appears to be a lot more polished while still having that "regular guy" thing going in how he gets his points across instead of coming off as a total zealot.

Chris P. Bacon
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Rand Paul
NUK_1 wrote:

All i have to say is Scott Brown won an open election for Ted Kennedy's seat. The voting trend yesterday to me scream anti-incumbent, but not necessarily anti-Obama or anti-Dem. Murtha was a long-time power but he wasn't a Ted Kennedy and the voters in his district aren't near as liberal as Kennedy's.

If there was a tidal wave against Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Dems.....that seat in PA goes Repub and there are Repubs dancing in the streets today instead of trying to spin it. That was the indicator and the results overall seem to mean voters hate incumbents but they might be replaced by very liberal or very conservative people; not that the voters are so sick of the powers-that-be right now to elect anyone with an "R" in front of their names.

Rand Paul getting elected was a win for the tea party movement and a big win for busting the Repub tent wide open. There isn't much doubt that Rand is a Libertarian running as a Repub in order to gain easier access to simply having your name on the ballot in the first place and shares very little in common with the last administration. That's the most noticeable impact race of yesterday besides Specter going down to another Dem and LIncoln having trouble with other Dems.

I just hope Rand doesn't turn out to be like his Dad and suddenly become unable to speak without scowling and growling and also lying out of his backside as Ron Paul has done for the last decade or so. Rand appears to be a lot more polished while still having that "regular guy" thing going in how he gets his points across instead of coming off as a total zealot.

Well, Wedge has something of a point. There ARE a lot of Democrats in the Murtha district, because the Republican-controlled PA statehouse put two Dem-leaning districts together to allow for a Republican to be elected to Congress from another district. Murtha prevailed despite Republican gerrymandering. (Of course, the fact that the legislature is controlled by the Republicans makes a mockery out of LINDSEY's claim that Pennsylvania is quote "very LIBERAL State" unquote).

I think you have identified the key issue here, in any event. The Teatards tend to equate "anti-incumbent" with "anti-Obama". Specter losing to Sestack is a Dem-losing-to-a-Dem...the political calculus doesn't change.

Rand Paul, judging from his graceless and sneering victory speech last evening, might be the single most boorish politician in America. Small wonder that 43% of Kentucky Republicans indicated that they'd rather run over the family dog with a pickup truck than vote for him in the general election. I thought Sarah Palin's negatives were bad but this guy redefines the genre. In any event, his condescending patronizing commentary makes him a natural national spokesman for the teatards. In any event, Paul's nomination is definitely a red flag for the Cheney republicans in America.

The Wedge
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I choose not to ascribe national trends to local elections

I do believe that the democrats will lose seats in botht the house and senate. It is the first election cycle of a new adminstration and that administration always loses seats in that cycle. It is a historical norm.
I think it is a bit absurd to continue to trumpet a single race as a harbinger of things to come. All politics is ultimately local.

The Wedge
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Incumbency wasn't an issue

in PA 12 yesterday. There was no incumbent in that election. Democrats continued to vote democrats and republicans the same. The swing of 10 points in the district wasn't a factor. It is silly to trumpet individual campaigns and call them national trends

S. Lindsey
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Don't dispute his "facts"

Crispy Bacon/Sniffles Wrote:
"Bottom Line: The Tea Party got stomped in a conservative Pennsylvania district."

"The 12th district is predominantly rural, and represents the coal and manufacturing industries, which have suffered in recent decades.[6] It was the only congressional district in the United States which gave a majority of its vote to Republican nominee John McCain in 2008 after voting for Democratic nominee John Kerry in 2004.[2] However, at the time of the election Democrats outnumbered Republicans by a 2-to-1 ratio in the 12th district.[7] A poll conducted by Public Policy Polling (PPP) in May 2010 found President Obama with an approval rating of 35 per cent, with 55 per cent disapproving.[8] A PPP poll conducted in April found Speaker of the House of Representatives Nancy Pelosi, U.S. Senator Arlen Specter, and Pennsylvania Governor Ed Rendell (all Democrats) to be "exceptionally unpopular", though 55 per cent of the district identify as members of the Democratic Party."Wikipoltics

"So, the polls were off in PA-12, and Democrat Mark Critz won by 9 points. But that doesn’t necessarily translate into victory for Critz in November or mean that Democrats nationwide can breathe a sigh of relief.
The only competitive statewide primary Tuesday was on the Democratic side, and that helped boost Democratic turnout (Dems outnumbered Republicans 2 to 1 at the polls in PA-12). That advantage will be gone in the fall. Critz ran as a conservative Democrat–his ads portrayed him as a pro-life, pro-2nd Amendment, anti-cap & trade candidate, who would have voted against Obamacare. That’s an advantage many Democratic incumbents in GOP-leaning districts won’t have in November. Their voting records will tell a different story."

Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/why...

Yep sounds like a Conservative district to me... Just another fine example of a Media Matters Sniffles "FACTOID"..

Chris P. Bacon
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Whither the Tea Party

You've been blatherin' for months now how you and your kind are gonna "take back this country" (as if it was yours to begin with).

You Tea Partisans had a golden opportunity to pick up a seat...you've been tellin' us how people are desertin' Obama and the Democrats, that the Tea Party will rise up and reclaim this here country....

Were ya pullin' our leg then? Or are ya pullin' our leg now?

Democrats have won six special Congressional elections since President Obama was inaugurated. Seems like you Tea Partisans are having a bit of trouble garnering widespread support...

So tell us, Lindsey, where are your Tea Party gods now?

S. Lindsey
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Well tell me this..

Just who has Obama helped there sniffles? Answer No one.. so Teapartiers are doing exactly what they are trying to do.. Get the bums and corrupt politicians on both sides out.. It seems only you guys want to keep the corrupt ones in..

One race in a special election for a district that was run forever by Murtha by his aide in a Liberal/Democrat infested district and was won by only 9 points.
Doesn't sound like much of a victory there Sniff..

November is going to prove harder.. So I tend to believe all is well..

Chris P. Bacon
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11 in a row, Lindsey...
S. Lindsey wrote:

Just who has Obama helped there sniffles? Answer No one.. so Teapartiers are doing exactly what they are trying to do.. Get the bums and corrupt politicians on both sides out.. It seems only you guys want to keep the corrupt ones in..

One race in a special election for a district that was run forever by Murtha by his aide in a Liberal/Democrat infested district and was won by only 9 points.
Doesn't sound like much of a victory there Sniff..

November is going to prove harder.. So I tend to believe all is well..

Doesn't sound like much of a victory, eh? Well, look at it this way, Lindsey, there have been 12 special Congressional races to fill vacant seats in the House of Representatives during the past two years...including last night's victory, the Democrats have now won 11 straight races, including 3 seats formerly held by Republicans.

Wasn't supposed to turn out like this, was it?

At some point, the Tea Party folks need to stop bragging about the great things they are gonna do and actually show the American public some results by winning elections. Alternatively, and much more likely, they can admit that they are "all hat and no cattle", a political fringe group incapable of mustering anything over approximately 20-25% of the vote.

PTC Observer
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CP Bacon - Mark Critz

the democrat who won had to:

1. run as an ANTI-ABORTION democrat - say what???
2. run as a pro-gun democrat - say what????????
3. say he would have voted AGAINST MaoBama care - say what???????????
4. would vote AGAINST cap and trade - say what?????????????????????????

He said he was a democrat - say what????????????????????????????????????????????????

Sounds very Tea Party to me.

CP, we'll see in November how certain you are of the tide sweeping more Dems into Congress. Time will tell if your definition of a tea party is correct or not. Never underestimate the anger of those that are being robbed.

Get ready to pucker.

Chris P. Bacon
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Petey C. Observer
PTC Observer wrote:

the democrat who won had to:

1. run as an ANTI-ABORTION democrat - say what???
2. run as a pro-gun democrat - say what????????
3. say he would have voted AGAINST MaoBama care - say what???????????
4. would vote AGAINST cap and trade - say what?????????????????????????

He said he was a democrat - say what????????????????????????????????????????????????

Sounds very Tea Party to me.

He's a very conservative Democrat.
I'm wondering...do you believe all African Americans are crooks? Are all Hispanics lazy? I'm trying to gauge the depth of your sweeping generalizations here.

PTC Observer wrote:

CP, we'll see in November how certain you are of the tide sweeping more Dems into Congress. Time will tell if your definition of a tea party is correct or not. Never underestimate the anger of those that are being robbed.

Get ready to pucker.

Excuse me? I did NOT say that the Democrats would win more seats in November. I've said over and over that the average loss in the House is 28 seats to the opposition party. I expect the actual result will be 24 or so seats, LESS than the historical average. I expect the Democrats to retain control of the House.

I would ask that you refrain from putting words in my mouth...that's Lindsey's job.

Care to go on record as to how many seats YOU believe that the Democrats will lose in November?

PTC Observer
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CPB - dems

That's my point CP, Rand Paul calls himself a Republican and we all know that he's not. Crist calls himself a Democrat and we know he's not as well.

So, for the Democratic Party to say that it was a "victory" to have him elected is a bit of a sham isn't it?

Therefore, I don't think it matters how many seats the Democrats have after the election at the end of the day it's all about philosophy. Will the country swing "right" after the election; I say it will and most dramatically.

Smaller government, less taxes, and more personal freedom that is what most people want, and I think that's what they will get following the election. The days of leftist ideology are coming to a close, it will simply take two or three election cycles.

Hope this clears your thought process up a bit.

S. Lindsey
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and none of those targeted

Win what you can fight what you can't Sniff.. Teaparty you recall is not a universal platform. You seem to forget that.. Each State and/or district may or may not even have a group.. They may choose a Dem that is simply more conservative than a RINO Repub. You seen to forget with the Teaparty it is about the Constitution and Fiscal Responsibility, not party's.

It is only ideologues like you that toe the party line. The majority of us will take anyone that swears to uphold the Constitution and give us a smaller Government. That includes Dem with a little "d"..

JeffC
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No you won't

The TEA Party will never support Mark Critz, a 3 Star Admiral, anti Obama Healthcare, pro-gun, anti-abortion Democrat. The TEA Party is not a new group; they're just hard core Republicans being outspoken and purging the Republican Party of any trace of moderation and compromise. Show me a Dem that the TEAs support. Why not Admiral Critz? Do you think he's a socialist? A slackard on national security? Won't uphold the Constitution?

S. Lindsey
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As soon as a democrat

actually starts to support the Constitution, a spending freeze and get's behind a smaller Government.. The Teaparty will support them.. They just haven't found them yet.. ;-)

JeffC
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It's a measure of the Teapartys extremism

That they think a Navy Admiral would not uphold the Constitution. You're going to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

The Wedge
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Jeff, Upholding the constitution

Are you willing to state that our elected officials have been upholding the US Constitution-including all of its articles and amendments? And if so, as it is currently upheld, what is the state of the principle of limited government?

JeffC
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Yes Wedge

Except for some stuff still pending review. I suspect the mandate to require that individuals buy health insurance is mighty iffy. Most of the big legislation has been before the Supreme Court and has been decided. Like their decisions or not, they are the arbiters. Which articles and amendments do you think have been violated and based on what?

The principal of limited government is in danger of being permanently trashed and that is generously assuming that it is not already too late. Unfortunately, it is not in the Constitution. I suspect that if the Founding Fathers had been able to see us now, they would have added a few more sections. Here are three of mine:

Section JeffC, Article 1: The budget of the United States shall be balanced except in the time of a declared national emergency.

Section JeffC, Article 2: No elected official shall serve more than three consecutive terms.

Section JeffC, Article 3: The government of the United States shall not establish nor manage a pension fund.

Mike King
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Bravo! Bravo! Bravo!

Only if more of us right leaning folk would listen, we might actually realize how much we have in common with the left.

Well said Mr Carter!

Cyclist
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JeffC: Spoken Like a true

blue dog democrat.

Robert W. Morgan
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Right on, JeffC

On Article 3, I might add that they should not be managing banks or car companies either.

I can't imagine any sane person not agreeing with your 3 Articles or disputing the fact that the Founders would feel the same way. I guess they thought we would get smarter with each generation and be able to improve upon the obvious limited federal government intent of the Constitution, but sadly it looks as if we are getting dumber and dumber with each generation. Combine that with the majority of people being totally disinterested and you get these professional politicians and lobbyists running the country.

Angry Taxpayer
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Jeff C. - Good Point on Critz

Jeff, Mark Critz seems like a principled man. However, Bart Stupak also seemed like a principled man regarding abortion and Obamacare - and then compromised his principles for a non-binding Executive Order.

It's my impression that candidates on both sides often find themselves betraying the desires of their constituents to knuckle under to their party leadership.

While not a TEA Party participant, I can understand their desire for elected officials to be more accountable to the voters than to Obama, McConnell, Reid, Pelosi, or Boehner.

JeffC
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You and me both Taxpayer

Under Carter, Reagan, and Bush 41, there was widespread bi-partisan support. In fact, Carter and Reagan have among the highest numbers of cross-party support for their legislation. Then came Newt who poisoned the well with his list of attack words demonizing the opposition and Clinton's impeachment follies which ended bipartisanship. As Bush 43 became unpopular, the camps became further divided and the Party leaders became stronger in a point-counterpoint obstruction policy. Now, under Obama, if you don't toe the Party line you'll lose your committee assignments which is outrageous. It's most evident in the Republican Party because they are block voting against legislation as the Party leader decide. It's less apparent in the Ds Party because the leaders allow some opposition assuming they already have enough votes but it's only appearances. The Ds are just as bad, they just play the politics of it better. Because the Rs are out, they can be portrayed as the Party of No because the legislation originates under the Ds and they oppose it in a block. Everybody interested in it enough to read this blog knows exactly what would happen if the situation were reversed.

Angry Taxpayer
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Jeff C. - Shoe On The Other Foot

Jeff, my interpretation of your final sentence above is that if the Dems were out of power they would be just as much the "Party of No" as they claim the GOP to be currently. Correct?

If so, I'm immediately reminded of Bush 43's efforts to reform Social Security and the Dem's pride in obstructing those efforts - demonstrated by the rude standing ovation they gave themselves on that topic during the following State of The Union Address. Talk about poisoning the well...

Unfortunately, I know we could both site numerous examples - on both sides - when Beltway Gamesmanship was obviously more important than serving the best interests of the public. We are a crippled nation as a result.

S. Lindsey
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P.O.T. There in is the problem

The hard left.. Michael Moore, George Soros crowd, has hijacked the Liberal Democrat party.

If the Dems would simply go back to Center where the rest of the Country resides then maybe we can get out of the morass we are stuck in.. The economy and employment are being drug by the bus they are using to run over the Country.

S. Lindsey
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Obama can't win even in his home district.

A seat held by a Democrat for 20 years was lost to a Republican.

"HONOLULU — A Honolulu city councilman has defeated two Democrats to give Republicans a midterm election victory in the U.S. congressional district where President Barack Obama grew up.

Charles Djou's win Saturday is the latest triumph for the GOP as it looks to take back control of Congress. And it came as a blow to Democrats who could not rally around a candidate and find away to win a congressional race that should have been a cakewalk. The seat had been held by a Democrat for nearly 20 years and is located where Obama was born and spent most of his childhood."

From the hard right conservative web site...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/23/republican-charles-djou-w_n_586...

"National Tea Party PAC Headed to Hawaii for Endorsement and Support of Charles Djou for Congress

"Leading national tea party PAC heads to Hawaii with bloggers, media buys and activists meet-ups in support of Charles Djou for Congress."

Las Vegas, NV (PRWEB) April 14, 2010 -- One of the first and largest political action committees born out of the tea party movement today announced its full support and endorsement of Charles Djou for Congress in the special election for Hawaii’s 1st Congressional District."

Liberty First PAC, the umbrella group for TaxDayTeaParty.com and the Patriot Caucus, is sending bloggers to Hawaii and plans a media blitz that includes online blog ads, radio ads and on-the-ground coverage for its email lists." http://www.prweb.com/releases/2010/04/prweb3867864.htm

Almost every time a Teaparty works for a candidate they win.. Every time Obama campaigns for a candidate they lose.. Go figure.

AtHomeGym
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Hawaii Vote

Steve, the Rep who won will only serve a short time and the Dems will regain the slot next election. It is a heavy Dem district and the Rep only won because of the split vote with 2 Dems, 1 Rep. Dems got more than 60% of the vote. Don't think we can count that one as a strategic victory.

S. Lindsey
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Possibly Gym

But a win is a win.. If Critz is loss then Djou can be counted as one for the good guys.

November is still some time away..

Joe Kawfi
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Hawaii Vote - AtHomeGym

AHG - Neither Dem received as many votes as the Republican - and you count that as a "non-win"?

Whatever, if that helps you sleep at night......

NUK_1
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That's because AtHomeGym is obviously a closet lib

Whatever, if that helps you sleep at night....

Whatever. Take the blinders off, ditch the tinfoil hat, and get back into reality. AHG is hardly some "progressive" and made the same point that many others who are also not INSANE have been making, and you think it's...well....I don't know what you think. I don't WANT to know what you think because it comes across as more hysterical than Bonkers and maybe even with less insight, if that is possible.

There are conservatives, progressives, libs, libertarians, Tea Partiers, and....CRAZIES. You got the crazy zealot part down.

Joe Kawfi
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63% Favor Repeal of National Health Care Plan

63% Favor Repeal of National Health Care Plan

Support for repeal of the new national health care plan has jumped to its highest level ever. A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 63% of U.S. voters now favor repeal of the plan passed by congressional Democrats and signed into law by President Obama in March..................Currently, just 32% oppose repeal.

Chris P. Bacon
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Ah yes, Rasmussen Reports
Joe Kawfi wrote:

63% Favor Repeal of National Health Care Plan

blah blah blah Rasmussen blah blah

Ah yes, Rasmussen Reports, the Republican's Friend.

Meanwhile, those of us who prefer to live in a reality-based world look to pollster.com, which keeps a running average of ALL polls related to Health Care. The lastest number from Pollster for ALL polls shows that the average disapproval rate for health care legislation is 45.6%

Can you say "outlier", Joe?

Joe Kawfi
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Chris P. the Clown

If that helps you sleep at night, Krispy - Just go ahead and pay no attention to the polls. They don't mean a thing. Everything is just hunky-dory. The libs have nothing to fear in November.

Nighty night Krispy - time to go night-night

Davids mom
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C.P. BACON

Bring your facts Saturday. Lindsey seems to have difficulty 'seeing it' the FACTUAL way. LOL!! What is factual - the T P did not get out the vote in all of the primaries. We'll see. OR - they are truly after ineffective incumbants - from both parties.

Cyclist
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Hey Davids mom

You need to come and enjoy some coffee.

Davids mom
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Cy

Graduation time for grandkids! Thanks for the invite. (Still a little hesitant to 'come out'. :-( )

Cyclist
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OK DM

Next time it will be in Fayetteville. And don't be hesitant after all, "carb" and I will be there and I can assure you we are both harmless. Congrats to the grand kids!!!

Davids mom
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Cy

Thanks!! :-)

S. Lindsey
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DM you wouldn't know a fact

unless you were spoon fed it by Soros or Obama..

You continue to become more irrelevant daily. Why don't you come.. We could use another chuckle..

INCUMBENTS AT RISK
"The anti-Washington mood threatens to sweep away many well-known incumbents and put Democratic control of Congress at risk in November, when all 435 House of Representatives seats, 36 of 100 Senate seats and 37 of 50 state governorships are up for election.
A dramatic upheaval could hinder President Barack Obama's legislative agenda, threaten each party's remaining moderates and increase polarization in Congress." Reuters..

Davids mom
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Llindsey

DM you wouldn't know a fact unless you were spoon fed it by Soros or Obama..
You continue to become more irrelevant daily. Why don't you come.. We could use another chuckle..

Such class Lindsey. One who is secure in his FACTS' - doesn't feel the need to denigrate those who disagree with his/her opinions. One loses a 'debate' when he lowers himself/herself to irrelevant personal attacks. Have fun Saturday! I think many are coming to see your contribution to the laughter.

S. Lindsey
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Dm take a moment and look at your post

and then get back to me on that one.. Pot calling kettle black and all that..

Joe Kawfi
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Obama - POS

Watch Obama once again trashing America - this time on U.S. soil standing next to the President of Mexico.

What an A-Hole Obama is...... First he lies about the law to Americans and then he trashes America. He has no business being POTUS. He's nothing but a POS.

OBAMA TRASHES ARIZONA

jpopeye
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Rand Paul, the day after

wow

JeffC
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What do you mean about Rand Paul jpopeye?

Are you referring to Rand Paul saying that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was too broad and should not apply to private businesses, such as luncheonettes and that private businesses should have the right to refuse to serve black people.

Way to go Rand! That's the way to win votes!

HAHAHAHA

jpopeye
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yes, amazing

and where will his funding support come from?

S. Lindsey
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2 sides to every story again

"So is Rand Paul a racist? No, and it's irritating to watch his out-of-context quotes -- this and a comment about how golf was no longer for elitists because Tiger Woods plays golf -- splashed on the Web to make that point. Paul believes, as many conservatives believe, that the government should ban bias in all of its institutions but cannot intervene in the policies of private businesses. "Washington Post

The Politics of Personal destruction is alive and well.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/right-now/2010/05/rand_paul_telling_the...

Wow a Libertarian that does not believe in Government intervention in private business. Shocking.

JeffC
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Didn't see the Tiger Woods thing

Here's Paul on the Maddow show dodging the question for 20 minutes:

Rand Paul takes on new fire for civil rights comments

I don't find his Libertarian views shocking at all. I'm actually hoping all the TEA candidates will say what they believe and stand by their positions. It will make it easier to beat them in the election.

As for the politics of personal destruction, we learned that from Newt.

Chris P. Bacon
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They've got their own secret code

Much like the old "states rights" group, the neo-Birchers (now called the Tea Party) have developed their own code words to make their toxic political philosophy more palatable to the gullible general public.

"Support the Constitution" and "smaller government" are Tea Party code words for "protecting white entitlements, at the expense of African Americans, people who speak Spanish, and those who earn less than us".

I was surprised...and as a Democrat, delighted....to see Rand Paul publicly acknowledge his fervent support of private discrimination. His rhetoric exposes what I believe to be a critical flaw in the basic philosophy of the Libertarian/Tea Party. The Libertarian/Tea Party have used this flaw philosophy to increase their numbers by appealing to the racist/bigot demographic.

Davids mom
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Rand

According to his words, Wal-Mart will have the right to prevent me and my grandchildren from eating at their food areas. My God, I thought this was over - as did many of you . . . but you see, here it comes again - the right of a private owner to discriminate against fellow citizens based on their 'race', 'gender' or 'religious beliefs. Dr. Rand wouldn't hold onto this 'thought' if he didn't feel he had a large backing in this country. What about my 'right' as a citizen? It's OK for some to denigrate, belittle, and refuse to serve others - in order to protect their 'right' to feel comfortable in a private setting.( Being refused service, which I have experienced, is denigrating me as a person, belittling my heritage) Ah . . .only in America. I can, according to Rand, only enjoy my rights in a public setting. Here goes my money to defeat Rand and anyone who believes/expresses this thought in 2010. NEVER AGAIN!!

The Wedge
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I am not going to debate on Rand

I know nothing about him. And totally agree with you concerning places like Walmart. But I am curious about the right to free association. Specifically the following - An avowed Buddhist group being allowed to only employ and keep practicing Buddhists in their group; the right for the Black Congressional Caucus to keep their membership specifically among blacks. Is there ever a time and place, in your opinion, where a group can discriminate based upon such criteria as gender, sexual preferences, race. What do you think about set aside programs? etc.

Davids mom
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WEDGE-Good Quesions

Based on history and past practices, there are no easy, quick answers to your questions. Should Jobs Daughters be forced to allow Islam believers into ranks? I think if one is accepting of the principles of an organization - he/she should not be discriminated against due to race, etc. I'm reminded of Kenny Hahn, (white) a politician from California, who represented a basically Black district for years. I can imagine that he could have signed the goals of the Black Caucus, and possibly would have been welcomed, if he so desired. His memory as a beloved voice for the African American community is alive and well in Los Angeles. After a little thought at this point - I don't think there is a place in our country where one can be allowed to discriminate based on gender, sexual preference, or race. But if there is someone who is willing to support the principles and ideals of a group that is 'different' from his/her heritage, etc., they should be allowed to apply for that organization. There are 'blacks' in 'white' fraternities, and vice-versa for women/sororities. Set aside programs are still needed as long as you have a group of citizens who have been denied the opportunity given to the 'majority' group. For instance, programs for those raised in certain areas of the 'Ozarks' with substandard educational programs - or inner city residents with substandard educational programs. . .or certain rural areas in Georgia and California. I think we can offer programs to all of our citizens who need an extra hand (educational/employment) and not a 'hand-out'.

The Wedge
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DM, continuation

Good statements and I understand most, however...

Davids mom wrote:

I don't think there is a place in our country where one can be allowed to discriminate based on gender, sexual preference, or race. But if there is someone who is willing to support the principles and ideals of a group that is 'different' from his/her heritage, etc., they should be allowed to apply for that organization.

Here is where I see problems. What if a flamboyantly gay man wants to work as the receptionist at the Fundamentalist Islam Convention (fictional). Does the Convention have a right to deny this man employment?

Davids mom
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:-) Wedge

If the flamboyantly gay man can support the principles of the Fundamentalist Islam Convention - then he should be allowed to apply for the job. Now - if the Fundamentalist Islam group doesn't feel that he represents the principles of their organization - I guess they can refuse him employment - BASED ON THE CONFLICT OF PRINCIPLES - NOT RACE. I have seen flamboyantly gay Muslims - even though the President of Iran denies their existence. To tell you the truth, I don't think the Fundamentalist would allow him near their organization - oh well. There may be a 'black' man who supports the dictates of the KKK - but I don't think they would allow him near their organization either. :-)

The Wedge
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DM, a bit more

I could certainly agree with the ideal of representing principles and that would be a good place to go as far as the law is concerned. The issue would be the agitators--and you know what I mean. For example, the hardcore militant atheist (Richard Dawkins clone)only the local version wanting to work in a Christian or Muslem organization so as to "investigate" or mock, or whatever-to not have a pure motive. The issue would be is when that person was terminated or not hired for those reasons. It would be very easy fo rthat person to soapbox and say that he was eliminated for his religious (or lack thereof) beliefs.

Davids mom
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Wedge

I think there will always be those who want to throw a wrench in the works. I saw a lot of that during the '60's - and it's still going on today with certain civil rights groups. A wise women once said - keep your eye on the principled goal - and move on!! Have fun tomorrow. Looking forward to the results of the debate!

The Wedge
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I am there to talk

There will be no changing of minds. I can be just as critical of all sides. I have found the people who take the time to have coffee tend to be good people. even if they are misguided...

jevank
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Wedge

That brings back memories of when I (a Christian) worked for a synagogue in Dallas during the mid 80s. Biggest problem I ran into was that being the first one in the office, I was not allowed to eat the doughnuts or drink the coffee until the Rabbi arrived to bless them.

We compromised by me waiting for the doughnuts and the rabbi blessing the coffee beans in advance. I had no problem following the rules of their faith while employed, and they had no problem with me going to my own church during my time off.

Should there be a law that I have to be hired? I don't know. There seems to be so many who take it to extremes on either side. The flamboyantly gay man may be needed to put the "fun" in fundamentalist.

See you guys tomorrow.

The Wedge
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Jevank

good anecdote of that situation working :-) funny comment at the end. see you tomorrow, I will probably be late though

Chris P. Bacon
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Jewish doughnuts?

Aren't those usually called "bagels"?

jevank
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Ahhh...blessed doughnuts

Yeah, funny thing...they had the bagels and lox (nasty stuff first thing in the morning) but the doughnuts always went faster.

Did you know Krispy Kreme doughnuts' ingredients are Kosher?

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Hypocrisy in the Liberal Establishment

Hypocrisy in the Liberal Establishment

It is absolutely clear that in 2010 conservative and Republican American blacks can't express their views without fear of reprisal and retaliation. Is this the intent of the Civil Rights movement that blacks can only be free if they agree with the Democratic Party way of thinking?

Tantalea
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It's not the Black Republican thing. . .

I've witnessed a lot of support for black Republicans among Republicans. At this point -- there's a lot of political hostility toward all factions. I don't think it's necessarily a black republican thing.

I don't witness a lot of support for the black tea party patriots (if that's what you mean).

JeffC
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Reprisal and retaliation?

What reprisal and retaliation? Rand Paul is whining about it being political. What did he expect when he decided to run for the Senate? If he had said the Civil Rights Act was the law and he supported it, next question, it would never have been an issue. If he wants to have some late-night college type activist discussion about every nuance in legislation that isn't pure enough for his Libertarian views then it's his own fault. Welcome to big time politics Rand.

AtHomeGym
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Rand Paul

Yep Jeff, you're surely right about what he might have said that would have avoided all the brouhaha but I find it hard to critize someone who makes honest statements--of course you gotta be ready to take the heat too. I listened to the Maddow interview--he clearly says he is against racial discrimination of any sort but that apparently isn't good enough---just because he says there is some wording in some sections of the CRL that he "questions." Bottom line--I suspect he is as much of a "flake" as his Daddy--and that doesn't say s lot for the voting population of Ky.

Chris P. Bacon
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Ministerial Exception
The Wedge wrote:

I know nothing about him. And totally agree with you concerning places like Walmart. But I am curious about the right to free association. Specifically the following - An avowed Buddhist group being allowed to only employ and keep practicing Buddhists in their group; the right for the Black Congressional Caucus to keep their membership specifically among blacks. Is there ever a time and place, in your opinion, where a group can discriminate based upon such criteria as gender, sexual preferences, race. What do you think about set aside programs? etc.

There is the so-called "ministerial exception" to the Civil Rights act, giving many religious organizations some leeway in hiring. It has been applied unevenly in various judicial districts, for example, one district ruled that the "ministerial exception" gave religious employers permission to discriminate on the basis of gender, other districts did not. The Supremes have yet to definitively rule on the issue, and seem determined to avoid ruling.

I was reading the other day how a Christian organization hired a Muslim woman to clean their offices and then fired her because she was ordered to...and refused to.. remove her headscarf for religious reasons. She sued and won.

Joe Kawfi
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Comments by Rand Paul

.....were taken totally out of context.

Gort
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Joe Kawfi, maybe Rand Paul

Joe Kawfi, maybe Rand Paul can get Sarah, “I Quit,” Palin to coach him before he goes on Meet the Press tomorrow morning and get it all straitened out? Oh, never mind, I was just told, Rand Paul cancelled his appearance on Meet the Press. I guess Sarah already coached him, eh Joe?

Tantalea
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Rand is not the appropriate change

Isn't anyone else alarmed by Paul Rand? I can appreciate that Americans want change, however the change I'm seeking is a progressive change. Not a democratic-progressive change; not a republican-progressive change . . . just progressive.

Rand's political views on the Civil Rights Act are 1950s-regressive.

AtHomeGym
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Where Have They Gone?

Guys like Sam Nunn and David Boren? Do they just not make them anymore?

JeffC
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Good question Gym

I would have loved to see them try to take a committee assignment from Nunn or Boren because they didn't knuckle under to the Party leadership. The fireworks would have been SPECTACULAR!

Bottom line is that it's the voters fault. Look around. Our Representatives aren't exactly the brightest lights on the Christmas tree either.

AtHomeGym
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Boren's Son

is a Representative I believe, but don't think he's close to what his Dad was. Guess there's a lot to be said for being President of U. of OK.

Joe Kawfi
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Obama Approval Rating drops to 44%

Daily Presidential Tracking Poll

Approval rating headed south..........disapproval rating going balistic.
Keep it up Barry - you will be out of office in 2012.

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