Is an Illegal “immigrant” Illegal?

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S. Lindsey
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There apparently is a lot of confusion with “certain” people that it has become apparent that a detailed explanation is needed.

First let’s explore the word “Illegal” Definition follows:

il•le•gal [ i lg'l ]
1. against law: contravening a specific law, especially a criminal law

Now is entering this Country’s borders without permission and at other than approved entrance points Illegal?

Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, "Improper Entry by Alien," any citizen of any country other than the United States who:
Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or
• Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or
• Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact;

has committed a federal crime.
http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/8/12/II/VIII/1325

Does this make it a CRIME?

crime [ krīm ]
1. illegal act: an action prohibited by law or a failure to act as required by law
2. illegal activity: activity that involves breaking the law

So entering the Borders of the United States either by fraud or other willful act is Illegal.. And any act that is illegal is a Crime. A Crime can be punished by Fines and/or imprisonment.

So being an Illegal Immigrant is therefore illegal so the answer is yes to both questions.

Now how does a potential immigrant gain access to this Country? Well one must generally obtain a “Green Card.”

“A Green Card or Permanent Resident Card serves as proof of a person's lawful permanent resident status in the United States. An individual with a Green Card has the right to live and work permanently in the United States. A person’s valid Green Card also means that he or she is registered in the U.S. in accordance with United States immigration law. “
Must all immigrants obtain a Green Card? YES although there are also various other forms including visas but for the purpose of this argument we will assume only a Green Card requirement.

So to be legal one must obtain a Green Card. Now do you have to carry it at all times?

“Many immigrants may not be aware of the fact that it is a legal requirement for Permanent Residents to carry their Permanent Resident Card with them at all times. If and only when a Permanent Residence chooses to become a naturalised citizen of America will they relinquish their Permanent Resident Card and no longer have to carry it with them. Under the "Now that you are a Permanent Resident" heading on the USCIS web site, it states: "The Permanent Resident Card, Form I-551, is issued to all Permanent Residents as evidence of alien registration and their Permanent status in the US. The card must be in your possession at all times." US Immigration Dept of Immigration

“carry their Permanent Resident Card with them at all times.”

Let’s look at this statement a little more closely. It is a FEDERAL REQUIREMENT that any non-naturalized immigrate to carry AT ALL TIMES PROOF that this person is in the Country LEGALLY.

Now let’s look at a few of the posters “worry’s shall we.

1. “Even with this cynical truism, human rights are involved here. .. the rights to be treated like a citizen of the US regardless of your skin color. Shall we all carry papers to prove we're citizens?”

Well if you are a citizen you carry just such papers it’s called a Drivers License or a Social Security card. Upon request you may be compelled to present them. And by definition if you are illegally in the US you are not a US Citizen and thus are not afforded the same RIGHTS. Note I did not say they had no RIGHTS just not the same Rights afforded to Citizens.

2. “A police officer does not have the authority to arrest someone for refusing to identify himself when he is not suspected of committing a crime. “

Being in this Country illegally without a “Green Card” means you have committed a CRIME.. see “Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, "Improper Entry by Alien,” therefore a Police Officer can compel an suspected illegal Alien to present ID. See :US Dept of Immigration Must carry at all times rule. There are various ways a Police Officer may develop “Reasonable Suspicion” or “Probable Cause” why too many to get into here.
Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, Humbolt County
In sum, Hiibel holds a state may criminalize a refusal to produce identification as long as the detention is predicated on a valid Terry stop (i.e., reasonable suspicion). In other words, police officers do not violate the Fourth Amendment when they arrest an individual after the individual refuses to provide identification during a lawful detention pursuant to their state's stop-and-identify statute.

3.” If every person in AZ is asked the same question and must produce documentation no matter what race then there is no problem. As you know that won’t happen in this case. The majority of the people who will have to produce documentation will be Hispanic. That would be racial profiling and racism at its best.”

One must assume the absolute worst case scenario why? The Law is very specific on this. EVERYONE will have this applied EQUALLY.

It’s called Equal Justice not Social Justice. Yes in Arizona the vast majority of illegal Aliens will be Hispanic.. So what? As long as the law is applied EQUALLY it is not un-Constitutional to enforce FEDERAL Laws.

Why are certain groups of people protecting Criminals?

Look at one Hispanic gang.. MS-13:
In the early 1980s a civil war erupted in El Salvador killing as estimated 100,000 people. In addition, it is estimated between one and two million people have immigrated to the United States as a result of the unstable environment in El Salvador. “
http://www.knowgangs.com/gang_resources/profiles/ms13/

These are illegal aliens as well. Google Illegal Aliens and Rape you get 10,500,000 hits for one class of people and just ONE crime.

Now does that mean all illegal aliens are rapist, murders etc.. No but they are criminals never the less .

Arizona spends $1 BILLION dollars a YEAR due to illegal aliens. They are #2 in the WORLD for kidnappings second only to Bogotá.
A majority of Americans are behind Arizona and that includes people of all races including Hispanics.
Illegal Immigration is a very serious issue. Ignoring it as our Government has done for years will not solve it. But maybe acts like Arizona’s will bring this issue some new light.

It has all of us taking sides doesn’t?

BillyS
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At long last, we are able to

At long last, we are able to hear the "other" side of the Arizona Immigration Law. Senate Bill 1070 has gotten a ton of scrutiny ever since the Governor of Arizona signed off on it. I have been studying up on this law wondering; if everybody is so trying to fight this law what good can come from it? The press appeared to be flooded with all the details to prevent this bill. Now I have heard some arguments from Canadian-American Journalist David Frum for this bill. Frum used to be an economic speech writer for President George W. Bush, so he has some knowledge behind his responses. He says that litter, property damage, violence, not enough decent education for our children, and trafficking of people (including slaves)are a few of the reasons this Bill is a good thing. He admits that it is not a perfect Bill and that it has its faults, although the Government has neglected to do anything with the immigration problem, and now the states boarding Mexico and surrounding those need to take some huge measures.

Cyclist
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Deport.....

them.

Davids mom
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Let all criminals be dealt with

The illegals and those who hire them. Until all criminals are dealt with, this bill is discriminatory.

One must assume the absolute worst-case scenario why? The Law is very specific on this. EVERYONE will have this applied EQUALLY

The law has always stated 'probable cause' and 'non-discrimination' - but has not been implemented as such. Why worst case scenario? Because for those marginalized in this country - the worst-case scenario has been the reality. The implementation of the law has not been colorblind. . .many who have been victims of unequal implementation of the law are questioning why/how is it going to be equally applied to everyone in Arizona in 2010. Will a 'blond/blue eyed' college student who has broken the law be asked for his proof of citizenship? Will the 'green card' (work permit/legally here) be required of Asian or African persons stopped for probable cause? The problem caused by the federal government's lack of regulation/enforcement of our immigration laws has been disastrous. The Arizona Law is a reaction to the feds failure - but it is not the answer in solving a problem. ENFORCE THE LAW - DEPORT ILLEGALS/PROSECUTE THOSE WHO HIRE ILLEGALS!!

Dondol
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Davids mom

"The law has always stated 'probable cause' and 'non-discrimination' - but has not been implemented as such."
The Law doesn't go into effect until June 1. so as of now it has not been implemented!

Davids mom
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Dondol

Arizona's law is specifically to handle the lack of enforcement of the Federal Immigration Law - which is already on the books and enforceable.. . to handle the brown skin people crossing our border and establishing homes here in the United States as illegal immigrants. The Federal law, is not just for Mexicans or those south of our border - but for anyone entering our country without a work permit, student visa, etc. IMPLEMENT THE FEDERAL LAW EQUALLY AND PUNISH ALL CRIMINALS - INCLUDING EMPLOYERS.

Cyclist
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Will a blond/blue eyed college...

student who has broken the law be asked for his proof of citizenship?

Well, lets see. According to the several news outlets, the driver - Jessica Colotl - could not produce a Georgia driver's license and the only ID that she could produce was an expired Mexican passport. Oh, and while she was in detention she admitted that she was in this country illegally. Yep, I would say that she was "lawfully caught".

BTW, KSU's out-of-state tuition is over $8,000 a year or about $6,000 more than she was paying. I don't know about you, but in my book, she owes the taxpayers of Georgia about $20,000.

Yep she is certainly a poster child for the "open our borders to everyone" crowd.

Chris P. Bacon
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When is a resident not a resident?

Yep, she's an undocumented immigrant.

She also has lived here in Georgia for the past 11 years.

She attended elementary school here.
She attended middle school here.
She graduated high school here.
She completed 3 years of of 4 year degree here.

And yet, but administrative decree of the Georgia legislature in 2007, she's not really a "resident".

Kafkaesque.

Cyclist
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It's very clear CPB....

She resides here albeit illegally.

Davids mom
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Colotl/Cy

According to the news, she paid in-state tuition - because they assumed since she graduated from a Georgia high school, she was a resident. I have never stated or believed that our borders should be opened to everyone - and there is existing law that handles that issue. THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS NOT IMPLEMENTED THE DICTATES OF THE LAW. Now lets look at another 'poster child' Latina. The actress whose last name in Longoria. She has often been asked if she was 'born here' - or was she a first generation American. Why? She has 'brown' skin, and appears Mexican. Her ancestors were granted land by the King of Spain BEFORE THE ARRIVAL OF THE MAYFLOWER. Her family has owned land that has been under the rule of Spain, Mexico, the Confederacy, Texas and the United States. . .and they never moved. The criminals in Colotls case are her parents and those who hired them. . .and our government who overlooked their 'legal' status in order to use their services at a cheaper pay scale. Lets all check to see if we/our ancestors are here legally. . .regardless of our skin color, ancestral language, etc., etc., etc. Some right here in Fayette County just might not pass the muster.

Cyclist
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DM

I have no problem with some form of national papers or perhaps a biometric Social Security card; you know, the one that used to say " Not to be Used for Identification".

Additionally, I have no problem with sanctions against employers that do not perform due diligence on determining the status of an individual. Perhaps e-verify could be used.

As for Jessica, I suspect that our budding "lawyer" knew exactly what was happening regarding her status and the tution thingy. After all, she is very intelligent and according to the esteemed Cynthia Tucker (eyes rolling) is someone that our community needs.

As for Actress Eva Longoria Parker and "the question"; lations ask that all the time of other latinos that they meet. It doesn't seem to be a big deal in that context.

Davids mom
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Hi Cy

'Context' is the operating word here. I have a problem with 'national papers'. Visiting South Africa before the end of Apartheid - 'carrying papers’ was an insult to my very soul. My mother's identification was different from mine - due to the difference in the color of our skin. HOW INSULTING AND DEGRADING. We all have our different perspectives of this situation in our wonderful country. There is a process called chemicalization that occurs before something is 'purified'. We're getting there - where one is respected for character, contribution, etc. I have some other comments - but it looks like I can only post so many during a time period. Oh well.

Cyclist
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Hey DM

I guess we all just should go down to the government doctor and get that chip implanted.

Davids mom
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Cy

That may be one solution.

normal
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If you are here illegally, GO BACK

There will always be discrimination in the world, Simple as that. What do you think when you see a mexican worker, you think illegal and dont lie about it. How about a bearded muslim or Afghan or a similar look, you think terrorist, how about a hand full of young black men approaching you, do they have a gun, will you be shot soon or at least loose your car. Because of history everyone discriminates in one way or another. How about the snobs in high dollar neighborhoods driving the expensive cars, Oh ya they definately discriminate and are very rude to the less fortunate. So there you have it. Live day to day and do the best to make things better. But you will never stop the world from discriminating against one another. So stop the invasion SEAL THE BORDERS.

Davids mom
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Normal

Let's stop the invasion of those coming to work in the fishing industry in our northeastern states, the invasion of Asians coming to work in our computer industry and 'sweat shops', and those Africans who look so much like our 'own' blacks until they open their mouths and we hear the 'accent'. I hope our American society will always be discriminating - and accept those who follow the law, act with respect towards others, and not feel that those of one color/gender are superior to another whose color/gender is different. Under federal law, we cannot 'seal our borders' - we have a process in place where one can legally immigrate to this country. Because of the lack of implementing our federal law - and our greed for 'cheap' labor and allowing employers to hire illegals for YEARS, we are in a mess! Criminals of all colors have come to our shores - many illegally. Good, hard working families have been here for generations. That is why the talk of Immigration Reform. Who broke the law? Those who came illegally years ago and those who employed them. Now what? If a man killed someone, do we sentence his child? The man broke the law, not the child. Thank heavens we have courts to straighten out our mess!!

Get Smart
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Thank heavens we have courts...

to straighten out our mess!!

They're bound to follow the law.

Joe Kawfi
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Obama opposes Arizona law that penalizes hiring of illegals

Administration opposes Arizona law that penalizes hiring of illegal immigrants

The Obama administration on Friday urged the Supreme Court to review and set aside an Arizona law that sanctions employers who hire illegal immigrants, saying it would disrupt the "careful balance" that Congress struck in federal immigration law.

Davids mom
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Colotl - Stay or go?

Should Colotl stay or go

An interesting discussion.

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