Nazi sign carrying protesters rally against Government

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S. Lindsey
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Those Teapartiers clearly showing Nazi signs in a protest against the Government.. http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/bastard/2010/04/russell_pearces_police_...

Wait a minute that wasn't the Teaparty that was the left wing LaRaza protesting against ILLEGAL ALIEN laws signed by the Governor in Arizona. http://tucsoncitizen.com/mark-evans/archives/236

After decades of no action by our Federal Government. Arizona has stepped up done their job for them. Does it go far enough? Will it stand up to court Challenges?

Illegal Aliens are a major problem. They are todays Slaves. They can be exploited by employers and who are they going to call? They take jobs from Americans in a time when we have Millions out of work.

Will this solve the problem.. No,

Is it a start by States to solve the issue themselves and pushing the Federal Government aside.. Maybe.

S. Lindsey
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Protesters throw bottles and attack supporter and Police

No not at a Teaparty rally.. I mean you know those radical crazies..

But at a "LIBERAL" rally in Arizona against SB 1070 which makes Illegal Aliens ILLEGAL.. Oh the horror of it all.

I mean those RACIST Arizonians. How dare they wish to protect the Citizens of Arizona and enforce laws.

http://www.statepress.com/2010/04/23/immigration-protest-at-capitol-grow...

Teaparty protesters arrested to date: 0

Another Liberal protest 1 day 1 city: 9

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/04/20/20100420arizona-immigr...

Cyclist
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Mexico's Immigration Law

Mexico, which annually deports more illegal aliens than the United States does, has much to teach us about how it handles the immigration issue. Under Mexican law, it is a felony to be an illegal alien in Mexico.

Mexico has a single, streamlined law that ensures that foreign visitors and immigrants are:

in the country legally;

have the means to sustain themselves economically;

not destined to be burdens on society;

of economic and social benefit to society;

of good character and have no criminal records; and
contributors to the general well-being of the nation.

The law also ensures that:

immigration authorities have a record of each foreign visitor;

foreign visitors do not violate their visa status;

foreign visitors are banned from interfering in the country’s internal politics;

foreign visitors who enter under false pretenses are imprisoned or deported;

foreign visitors violating the terms of their entry are imprisoned or deported;

those who aid in illegal immigration will be sent to prison.

Mexico welcomes only foreigners who will be useful to Mexican society:

Foreigners are admitted into Mexico "according to their possibilities of contributing to national progress." (Article 32)

Immigration officials must "ensure" that "immigrants will be useful elements for the country and that they have the necessary funds for their sustenance" and for their dependents. (Article 34)

Foreigners may be barred from the country if their presence upsets "the equilibrium of the national demographics," when foreigners are deemed detrimental to "economic or national interests," when they do not behave like good citizens in their own country, when they have broken Mexican laws, and when "they are not found to be physically or mentally healthy." (Article 37)

The Secretary of Governance may "suspend or prohibit the admission of foreigners when he determines it to be in the national interest." (Article 38)

Mexican authorities must keep track of every single person in the country:

Federal, local and municipal police must cooperate with federal immigration authorities upon request, i.e., to assist in the arrests of illegal immigrants. (Article 73)

A National Population Registry keeps track of "every single individual who comprises the population of the country," and verifies each individual's identity. (Articles 85 and 86)

A national Catalog of Foreigners tracks foreign tourists and immigrants (Article 87), and assigns each individual with a unique tracking number (Article 91).

Foreigners with fake papers, or who enter the country under false pretenses, may be imprisoned:

Foreigners with fake immigration papers may be fined or imprisoned. (Article 116)

Foreigners who sign government documents "with a signature that is false or different from that which he normally uses" are subject to fine and imprisonment. (Article 116)

Foreigners who fail to obey the rules will be fined, deported, and/or imprisoned as felons:

Foreigners who fail to obey a deportation order are to be punished. (Article 117)

Foreigners who are deported from Mexico and attempt to re-enter the country without authorization can be imprisoned for up to 10 years. (Article 118)

Foreigners who violate the terms of their visa may be sentenced to up to six years in prison (Articles 119, 120 and 121). Foreigners who misrepresent the terms of their visa while in Mexico -- such as working with out a permit -- can also be imprisoned.

Under Mexican law, illegal immigration is a felony. The General Law on Population says,

"A penalty of up to two years in prison and a fine of three hundred to five thousand pesos will be imposed on the foreigner who enters the country illegally." (Article 123)

Foreigners with legal immigration problems may be deported from Mexico instead of being imprisoned. (Article 125)

Foreigners who "attempt against national sovereignty or security" will be deported. (Article 126)

Mexicans who help illegal aliens enter the country are themselves considered criminals under the law:

A Mexican who marries a foreigner with the sole objective of helping the foreigner live in the country is subject to up to five years in prison. (Article 127)

Shipping and airline companies that bring undocumented foreigners into Mexico will be fined. (Article 132)

Sounds reasonable to me.

S. Lindsey
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CY.. funny how Mexico does immigration better..

..then we do!

Cyclist
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SL,

Yet I hear that the Mexican president has got his knickers in a knot because of Arizona's approach to policing immigration. Go figure.

S. Lindsey
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CY.. yep Mexico is warning against travel to Arizona..

That's better then what they usually do. Normally they supply books on how to cross our border, avoiding our patrols and what cities to go to (San Fran)when they get here.

Arizona is the #2 Kidnapping capitol of the WORLD.

But yet they don't have the right to enforce current laws..

MADNESS. I am not sure what world we are in but it feels like Bizarro's World to me..

Davids mom
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Cy

Mexico welcomes only foreigners who will be useful to Mexican society:

. .and US employers welcomed illegals because they didn't have to pay them minimum wage.

Hope you're home - and not the 'disruptive passenger' on the flight from Paris to Atlanta! ;-) Welcome home!

Cyclist
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Hey Davids mom

Got back last Wednesday and today I'm in Carson, Ca. I had to pedal real hard to get out here.

On the immigration thingy, I wonder if that well be pushed to the front burner now?

Davids mom
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Front burner stuff

We have so many 'front burner' issues, but the treatment of immigrants is causing a huge Latino registration push. (Politics as usual - but 'citizens' have the vote!) I'm interested in the training of law enforcement in this issue. During this period of high unemployment - there just may be 'legals' and 'citizens' standing on the corner for work. Maybe we'll get more clarification as this is digested by everyone. Has anyone seen the actual bill? I always thought that illegals committing crime in our country were identified - evidently not sent back to their home - or sent back and came right back in. There is a fine line between actual suspicion of criminal activity - and stopping anyone who 'appears' Latino. Another fine mess.

Cyclist
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Another fine mess.....

This one might be a little more difficult to fix.

The "Guv" issues identifcation cards to legal aliens but we cannot ask for those cards since it will upset a certain class of people. It's nuts.

Oh, I notice out here in LA that certain "gentleman" gather on the sidewalks around Home Depot stores waiting for a job.

Sankar
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cyclist

Curious! How would you personally handle it if a local cop walked up and asked you for your alien card? You show him your driver's license but he says most Mexicans have a driver's license, I need your alien card.
You are arrested.
Do you think all of us should have to carry "papers?"

Cyclist
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Sankar

Why don't you read the bill before you start with the scenarios.

Here's part of the bill addressing your concerns.

A person is "presumed to not be an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States" if he or she presents any of the following four forms of identification: (a) a valid Arizona driver license; (b) a valid Arizona nonoperating identification license; (c) a valid tribal enrollment card or other tribal identification; or (d) any valid federal, state, or local government-issued identification, if the issuer requires proof of legal presence in the United States as a condition of issuance.[8] SB1070 also prohibits state, county, or local officials from limiting or restricting "the enforcement of federal immigration laws to less than the full extent permitted by federal law" and provides that Arizona citizens can sue such agencies or officials to compel such full enforcement.[8][11]

Sankar
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cycist

You know better.
So a fake driver's license is all a Mexican needs and he will immediately be let go? (They cost about $50 here).

The Wedge
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Sankar indifference

A fake ID will work to get you into a bar, but it will not work on a traffic stop for cause. A checkpoint, yes, as they do not run the license and check the information. If you get pulled over, that fake ID will be run and the fakeness will most likely be discovered. If they are going that far to be criminal, then let's treat the fake ID holders as the criminals that they are.

pumpkin
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CY IMMIGRATION

Sounds great Cy, I'm all for it. Think this all really happens? And if the Mex's are running from their homeland why are immigrants going to theirs.

Ah this perfect world.

Sankar
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pumpkin

All this immigration is an inherited thing----the cave men, our predecessors, had to migrate from hither to yon to eat and keep from freezing! It is in the genes. I suppose Mexicans came from cave men also! Don't know for sure.

The Wedge
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Pumpkin

are you stating that Mexico has received no immigration -either legal or illegal, from Guatemala, Nicaragua, El Salvador, or Honduras? All of these countries are poorer than mexico. You lack of knowledge is astounding. A product of a liberal arts background, no doubt.

skyspy
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Cy: Legal Immigration

Mexico and other countries have the right idea. New Zealand requires people who want to immigrate to have 2 million dollars in assets before they are allowed to become citizens.

All we require is that they come here legally. We don't even require them to speak our language.

The illegals are criminals by the very fact that they come here illegally. They break federal laws every time they cross the border.

I hope other states follow the lead of Arizona. There is no reason to continue to allow these people to thumb their nose at our country and our federal laws.

Glad you made it back safe and sound.

MYTMITE
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Skyspy your are so right. As far back as 30 years ago a friend

and her family wanted to move to Australia from South Florida (in itself a foreign country) when her son was in the 6th grade--they finally gave up when the son graduated from high school! These were exemplary citizens with good jobs, no police records, bank accounts, etc. Seems we are one of the few countries who have no criteria for entry into this country, Yet, if we protest people coming here and staying illegally we are considered racist or worse! I know the politicians want the illegals given amnesty because they want the vote but I have to laugh when they say that the illegals take jobs no one else will take. Does anyone really believe that the illegals, if given legal status, would be willing to work for those wages? Of course not, then we are right back where we started---according to certain businesses, needing the cheap labor of illegals. A vicious circle. I also get a chuckle when I read that the President of Mexico thinks we should accept his country's illegals when they only accept our wealthy transplants--Here's an idea---get rid of all the corruption and graft and other issues in your own country and make it a place where your citizens can live a decent life. If you won't or can't, why do you expect us to? And one other thing when did "illegal" get a new definition---'undocumented'----to me illegal is illegal and always will be. And no, I do not have a mexican yard man---even though Peachtree City does!

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mytmikej

Is that "Mexican" yardman that PTC has an illegal or a legal?
See, you insinuate that all "Mexicans" are illegal.
Or, is it that you don't want legal Mexicans working here either?

Do you really think that the only Americans living in Mexico are wealthy?
Many, many people only on SS live there for the cheap rent and food. It is not hard to get across the border----just tourist for awhile! Like Canada.

Dondol
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If your Illegal Your Gone!

The way I see it the Good Citizens of Arizona have had enough of the broken promises and lip service from the Feds, grew some nads and are taking care of their own state. If you are in my County Illegally then you deserve to be deported, end of sentence!

Davids mom
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Pssst. It's you're not your

Thanks

pumpkin
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Pssst

He stated "you are". Just sayin.

Sankar
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pumpkin

Wake up! Look at the title.

Dondol
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Thanks Mom

Just got a little carried away

Davids mom
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You're welcome Dondol!

Have a great day!

Chris P. Bacon
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Arizona Race Laws - "Papers Please"

The Arizona Race Laws, which effectively make 2nd class citizens out of Hispanics (regardless of whether they are citizens or not) has been a goal of bigoted Palin-Americans and Tea Party zealots for some time.

After all, 2008 proved that aging white folks can no longer win elections by sheer force of numbers any longer, so the quicker they work towards disenfranchising black folks and brown folks and keep 'em from the ballot box, the quicker the white folks will be able to regain political power.

Not surprisingly, a number of Real Americans have problems with this approach.

The Wedge
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I am curious about this one

I read that this measure has a 70% approval rate in Arizona. Are you suggesting that there is less than a 30% hispanic make up in Arizona? I imagine that the hispanic population is over 30%, but not certain.

What do we do about the mass of people living in the US illegally? No other country in the the Western Hemisphere has this lax of an enforcement of their citizenship and eligibility to live as a citizen. What do we do, imprison employers who hire them and force the employers to do stringent background checks? What does the liberal left want to do, have unfettered immigration?

All of this is a bit of a canard. I can go to the Home Depot on Jonesboro road in Forest Park and round up 30 "undocumented workers" Why can't we enforce our laws?

Davids mom
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Enforcement of present law - Wedge

What do we do, imprison employers who hire them and force the employers to do stringent background checks? What does the liberal left want to do, have unfettered immigration?

As long as the employers receive a slap on the hand for breaking the law and hiring illegals, more illegals will cross the border looking for work. Will the fishing industry in our northeastern states be monitored as well? Most illegals there 'look American' because of their skin color - but they have an accent or don't speak English at all. What about them? This would not be a problem if the current law had been enforced. But - you know, cheap labor is hard to beat. I’m not a ‘leftist liberal’ – but this has been an issue long before illegal’s came to Georgia. There are Hispanic looking people in Arizona whose families have been there before Arizona became a state! What an insult to be asked for your ‘papers’ in this country. ENFORCE THE LAW, REQUIRE EXTENSIVE BACKGROUND CHECKS BEFORE HIRING! Slap heavy fines on those employers who continue to disregard the law. There are many Hispanics throughout our country who were BORN here. By law, they are citizens. Do you want someone asking you for your papers? I know I don't.

The Wedge
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I agree, but it depends upon application

Employers definitiely need to feel the pain of knowingly hiring illegals, including the homeowners of Fayette County when they knowingly hire them. We certainly should not agree to have enforcement where they pull people over for their looks or the famed "driving while being black". But there are lots of places to enforce-- routine traffic stops and checkpoints-card everybody. Use of a credit card or writing a check - check ID. Violations found this way should result in incarceration and deportation. Too often, this is let to go on. If one is on the side of a road or in a parking lot soliciting work, be it male, female, any ethnicity, it should be okay to check ID as they are circumventing ID checks and I9's with legitimate employers. We are far to eager to look the other way instead of dealing with a problem

Davids mom
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Wedge

I agree. This would be the ethical way to handle this - and we don't need any 'new' laws to implement this. Years ago, there was an effort to involve school personnel in identifying illegals. Once they started requiring students to present their social security number when enrolling, we thought the problem was solved. I later found out that 'social security' cards could be purchased at an affordable price in Los Angeles. This required a monitoring system that checked social security numbers. (Done by a government agency, I think.) I still do agree that the source has to be handled (those who knowingly hire illegals). Believe me, I never met a Hispanic who didn't WANT to work.

The Wedge
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Let's agree then

I think that our country is blessed when it has orderly, legal, and rational immigration. We are also blessed to be bordered with a country that generally has hard working people who share similar values and beliefs. We are far more fortunate than the Europeans, who are being subsumed by a culture and a belief system very different than their own.

fridgeman101
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???

Where did you get the idea that Mexicans have similar beliefs to us? From the one Mexican you have in your town? Their total lack of morals and lack of desire to be Americans is what has driven this whole illegal immigration situation. They worship Catholic statues, take what they can get away with, use OUR Constitutional rights to march in OUR streets waving MEXICAN flags, I haven't met one that wasnt a flaming drunk- even family men. Are you kidding me?

The Wedge
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I know there crazy fridgeman

How about that I travel there as part of my job and have interacted with actual mexicans, and did things like EAT DINNER WITH THEM!!! And you need to get out more there sport--lots of good people of all nationalities, makes and sizes. And hispanics will undoubtedly be more populous in this country than caucasion-look at the birth rates. They may even marry into your family and you will spin in horror in your grave

Bonkers
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Wedge: Immigration law of Arizona

Law # 1070
I have summarized the new law as follows:
With "reasonable" suspicion can make a reasonable attempt to arrest. (there are no details)
State local authorities ( suppose even a Notary) can enforce FEDERAL laws by checking them (by computer, I suppose).
If they have no alien card ( I don't know what a legal alien or any other American must have to prove they aren't illegal) then they can fine them for all costs, plus, etc. then turn them over to ICE (federal). What if they don't want them?

No warrant is need if there is "probable cause" (not defined).

State officers are held harmless for mistakes.

Can't be anywhere, public or private, without a card (papers).

As to working illegals: Illegal for an illegal to enter a vehicle for pick-up for a days work.

But only illegal for the person picking them up if they block the highway doing it! (guess they will have to pull into the parking lot.

If the person picking them up is illegal---I don't know what!!

Private sessions with employing companies are allowed to determine the extent, if any, of their illegalities.

Heil, Papers, Please Mr. Eskimo!

Heil, employer, naughty, naughy.

fridgeman101
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Bonkers

Have you read the law? Who would travel in a foreign country without their passport? Who drives around without their driver's license? These are all acceptable ID. This new law will not change anything except for the illegal immigrant. You will NOT be pulled over in Arizona just to be checked for immigration status. If you are pulled over for speeding, the officer will check your ID like they always have. You will not be pulled over for being of color. We have thousands of people of color here- we are not white washed nor racist. Stop sucking up all of the liberal media BS that is being spread- they obviously have an agenda. Does it worry anyone else that the illegal immigrants have such a political lobby that Arizona is being attacked from all of these fronts? These people are not even citizens and they have mayors from so many cities condemning Arizona for taking care of what the Federal goverment REFUSES to take care of.

Davids mom
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Fact Sheet for SB 1070

Arizona Immigration Law:

CLICK HERE

opusman
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Read the actual law

Not summary not fact sheet but the actual law/bill

Of course you have to be able to read/speak and comprehend English.

http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070h.pdf

ANY
27 PERSON WHO IS ARRESTED SHALL HAVE THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS DETERMINED
28 BEFORE THE PERSON IS RELEASED. THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE
29 VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION
30 1373(c). A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY,
31 CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE MAY NOT SOLELY
32 CONSIDER RACE, COLOR OR NATIONAL ORIGIN IN IMPLEMENTING THE REQUIREMENTS OF
33 THIS SUBSECTION EXCEPT TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY THE UNITED STATES OR
34 ARIZONA CONSTITUTION. A PERSON IS PRESUMED TO NOT BE AN ALIEN WHO IS
35 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES IF THE PERSON PROVIDES TO THE LAW
36 ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OR AGENCY ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:
37 1. A VALID ARIZONA DRIVER LICENSE.
38 2. A VALID ARIZONA NONOPERATING IDENTIFICATION LICENSE.
39 3. A VALID TRIBAL ENROLLMENT CARD OR OTHER FORM OF TRIBAL
40 IDENTIFICATION.
41 4. IF THE ENTITY REQUIRES PROOF OF LEGAL PRESENCE IN THE UNITED STATES
42 BEFORE ISSUANCE, ANY VALID UNITED STATES FEDERAL, STATE OR LOCAL GOVERNMENT
43 ISSUED IDENTIFICATION.

"Invincibility lies in the defense;
The possibility of victory in the
Attack."  SUN TZU

pumpkin
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CURIOUS

Not. You don't have to go all the way to Forest Park, just check your own neighborhood.

Davids mom
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Not surprisingly, a number of

Not surprisingly, a number of Real Americans have problems with this approach.

Especially those Americans whose grandparents and great-grandparents had to wear yellow stars during Hitler's reign. There is another way to handle this problem - but lets not 'bother' the big employers of illegals throughout our country. (And public officials better check the 'papers' of those that they employ in their homes.) Hmmmmm- looking and listening to some of the workers in the hotel industry and the cleaning personnel of our government offices, maybe those 'employers' better check also.

Bonkers
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Illegal soldiers

Well, we have a significant number of "former" illegals serving right now in the Military!
They have "papers" issued I suppose when they joined.

normal
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Not a problem, good idea

Make them serve 8 years and then BAM they are legal. That would be a good way for them to become citizens, Earn it dont steal it. Now that comment sounds like Im talking about the government. They dont earn anything just steal from us poor working folks.

Chris P. Bacon
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On the books since 2002!
normal wrote:

Make them serve 8 years and then BAM they are legal. That would be a good way for them to become citizens, Earn it dont steal it. Now that comment sounds like Im talking about the government. They dont earn anything just steal from us poor working folks.

When George W. Bush was planning his disastrous invasion of Iraq in 2002, he realized that America did not have sufficient troop strength for a successful invasion (Republicans like TALKING about serving in the military, but usually have "other priorities" when it comes to actually SERVING in the military). Bush therefore instituted Executive Order 13269, which basically says any foreign national, legal or illegal, serving in the military in Iraq gets fast-tracked for citizenship.

Wasn't Rome's decline hastened by enlisting foreign mercenaries and promising them citizenship?

S. Lindsey
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Wow.. only liberals serve in the military?

Sniffles Wrote:
"(Republicans like TALKING about serving in the military, but usually have "other priorities" when it comes to actually SERVING in the military)."

No wonder we can't get it done.. That explains a lot..

btw.. be careful with that "Rome" thing some here like nothing better than to take it out of context and openly challenge people.

Oh that was you .. Sorry.. Go ahead then it's ok..

fridgeman101
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"race laws"

Actually living in Arizona and not commenting about a situation from 700 miles away, I can honestly say I have actually read the law, and I am not basing my opinion of it from what the liberal media has told me about it. The new law does two things in essence; makes it a state crime to be in our state illegally and requires local lawy enforcement to enforce this law. The law is no different from the Federal law. Instead of waiting for the feds to arrest an illegal immigrant- which in most cases they do not do because they honestly do not care about the illegal immigration situation, our state law enforcement can arrest and press charges for this CRIME.

You have to ask yourselves why it is so racist to enforce our borders- Mexico has their military on their Southern border to stop their Central American neighbors from coming in. WHY THE HYPOCRACY? Being Mexican does not give you a free card to call everything racist.

AtHomeGym
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Hey StreakOLean

You and Darth about ready to announce formation of a new party? Check out Cy's question about the 70% of Arizonans approving of the new law. You think 70% of the Arizona citizens are white? Get a grip!

lion
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Arizona and more Republican intolerance

Arizona's Republicans decided that the Federal Government had not, in its opinion, adequately enforced Federal immigration laws, so the good Republican people of Arizona had no choice but to enact a hateful, racist law that put targets on the back of 1/3 of the state's citizens.

What is it about the Republican Party that it can not resist the temptation to be mean spirited and intolerant?

Another example is Oklahoma. Republicans there, catering as usual to the religious, anti-abortion tyrants, just enacted another round of draconian anti-women, anti-choice laws.

This is not the Republican Party my parents supported for many years.

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Ahhh yes..break out the "mean spirited and intolent" mantra

That's the big weapon of the left vs. the right and also total BS considering how the left feels exactly the same when it comes to their agenda. "Hate crimes" anyone? The Left is just as ready to legislate their approved behavior and your thought process as much as the Right is.

The fact is that the Feds have done a terrible job of enforcing "their" own immigration laws to the point that some cities(San Fran is one) have felt empowered to call themselves "sanctuary cities" for illegals. What Arizona is doing is a response to those cities that ENCOURAGE illegal immigration. How can that be so "mean spirited?"

Even libertarians agree on strong national defense that starts at your own borders. There is a LOT of people who feel the same way and are completely disgusted with the fact that there are 10-? how many million illegals already here. This isn't a Repub/Dem/Libertarian/Tea Party issue, but it IS a big issue for some progressives and union kings who are salivating at the thought of getting these people that are here illegally to become legal voters...for them. Hence, let's not enforce existing laws and forget about how much of an awful joke our border security is.

S. Lindsey
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Nuk all too true

You know what gets me is those that throw out those talking points HAVE NO CLUE what is in the actual law..

They have not read it. They don't care to either.. Doesn't fit their agenda.

PTC Observer
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Lindsey - link

do you have a link to the actual law? I haven't found one yet.

S. Lindsey
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PTC.. Not yet

I've read the excerpts but as of yet have not found it posted..

Sankar
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Observer-Lindsey

NBC News called it Arizona Law #1070. I found it by using that.
Seems you should read it before criticizing it!

S. Lindsey
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Uhh.. we did

Obiviously you didn't.. You have to "expect" the absolute worst from the Police..

Typical of Liberals though.. Hating the Police and Military.

"SB 1070 grants Arizona law enforcement the authority to inquire about immigration status, and to act on it. The new law will make it a state misdemeanor to fail to comply with federal law requiring that foreign nationals register and carry their documents with them. It also requires Arizona police officers, if they have a "reasonable suspicion" that someone is an illegal immigrant during a lawful stop, to determine that person's immigration status and authorizes them to transfer verified illegal aliens into federal custody. SB 1070 also prohibits state and local agencies from adopting "sanctuary" polices that prohibit police from inquiring about immigration status. "

Nothing new here.. move along people move along...

Chris P. Bacon
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Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

1984

George Orwell wrote:

War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength

2010

S. Lindsey wrote:

Liberals Hate the Police and Military

AtHomeGym
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Porkskin & Orwell

Y'know, I think I'll take Steve's predictions over George's. Besides, if things don't work out, I'll just go over to his house and talk to him. And if it takes a couple of months, I can stop by Mr. Callaway's and get me some fresh veggies!

Chris P. Bacon
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GymBob
AtHomeGym wrote:

Y'know, I think I'll take Steve's predictions over George's. Besides, if things don't work out, I'll just go over to his house and talk to him. And if it takes a couple of months, I can stop by Mr. Callaway's and get me some fresh veggies!

GymBob, I can't say I'm surprised you'd prefer Lindsey's "predictions", what with epistemic closure so much in vogue amongst conservatives this year.

Let me know if you need any squash.

AtHomeGym
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Porkskin & squash

If nothing else, this exchange gave you the opportunity to slip in a fifty cent word (epistemic). Thanks for the offer, but I don't like squash. Isn't it a little early for local squash?

Chris P. Bacon
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Epistemic
AtHomeGym wrote:

If nothing else, this exchange gave you the opportunity to slip in a fifty cent word (epistemic). Thanks for the offer, but I don't like squash. Isn't it a little early for local squash?

I'll be honest, I never heard the word "epistemic" before this past week. I have a news feed that triggers on articles containing the words "conservative" and "outrage" so that I have a heads-up on what, um, certain conservatives here are going to be complaining about next.

Having read up a bit now on "epistemic closure", though, I think it very succinctly describes the closing of the conservative mind. It's basically a closed-feedback loop, where facts that don't fit preconceived opinions are discarded and ridiculed. Naturally, this doesn't apply to all conservatives.

My squash won't come in for another month, sadly, it took a beating with the rain we had earlier this week. I blame Bush.

opusman
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For anyone who wants the actual bill
Sankar
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NUK--Lindsey

Some of us have read the Arizona law about immigrants. It is without any doubt unconstitutional and mean-spirited!

Another thing, local cops don't want this burden. Their superiors don't want to deal with disposing of those arrested. ICE won't take people arrested maybe illegally by local know nothings.

What if I am arrested because I don't have my papers with me (driver's licence insufficient now)? I don't need "papers." I am a citizen! I suppose next everybody will have to have "papers" on them at all times--another way to collect money for the "papers!"

It is strictly a political ploy.

The only problem continues to be that if employers wouldn't hire them or hire those those who do hire them, they would all go home quickly.

Every employee hired or contracted now is supposed to have the I-9 form completed. If it isn't in the file you can go to jail.
Hiring contractors is another ploy to get around it, but I-9s can still be demanded, but are not being.

We aren't serious---just want three fences on the border so they can figure out how to get under or around, or over them, or tear them out.

We can't even keep a few terrorists out, now can we?

S. Lindsey
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sankar.. Really

Please tell me how enforcing EXISTING Federal Laws in unconstitutional. Because that is what this law does.

There is no profiling.. There are already laws permitting "Probable Cause" detentions.

Arizonians pay $1BILLION per YEAR in Illegal Aliens Education, Medical care and Welfare.

Tell me when a budget that is already stretched to the breaking point.. Why should they PAY a BILLION dollars for people who by definition are CRIMINALS.

As far as papers.. it is ALREADY A FEDERAL law that as a "legal" immigrant you must carry your GREEN CARD. So again what is new.. The only difference is they are just enforcing the LAWS already on the books...

btw.. I just love your obvious disdain for the local law-enforcement officers. Next time you need a COP call an Illegal Alien.. maybe you would prefer their help..

hutch866
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SL

Read our new friend's other posts and I think you'll find that Bonker$ has a new name.

S. Lindsey
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hutch.. I thought so

been trying to pull a few more "answers" from him to be sure..

I guess it's time for a "cool change" from our fellow liberals..

Sankar
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S. Lindsey

You say, "there is no profiling."
Really, as you say, sounds the same as the Wall Street crooks saying, "we did nothing illegal!"

Allowing cops to determine whether a person or group of people driving along are Mexicans, number one, and illegals, number two, is stupid. Some of my relatives are "Mexican Looking." They are not.

Are ALL those guys "standing" at home depot illegal aliens or just the ones you can catch and arrest? Why are they standing there? Is the guy in the truck or van coming for them also to be arrested? Is his boss also to be arrested if all his "employees" have no I-9 forms on file?

No one is protecting "illegals," just ourselves from such treatment.

Most slaves freed by their "owners" were required to carry "papers" in the 1800s, if they dared to walk around! Many were hung anyway for WWB!

S. Lindsey
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Sankar/Bonkers..

You're still off your rocker..

MYTMITE
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SL, Sankar by any name would still be "Bonkers".

Isn't it funny that you only have to read two or three of Bonkie's posts to recognize his style no matter how he tries to disguise it? Haven't been on for some time so am not aware if he is having one on ones with Sankar--that is usually his modus operandi. Guess he thinks he fools us. Our dear Bonkie is our dear Bonkie regardless of his "handle". Bless his little pea picking heart!

Chris P. Bacon
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It can't be racist because whites aren't affected!
S. Lindsey wrote:

Please tell me how enforcing EXISTING Federal Laws in unconstitutional. Because that is what this law does.

Many legal experts regard this new immigration law as an unconstitutional usurpation of federal jurisdiction by the state. The writers of the law have asserted a new legal theory of "concurrent enforcement". It has yet to be tested in the courts.

S. Lindsey wrote:

There is no profiling.. There are already laws permitting "Probable Cause" detentions.

It is your opinion that there is "no profiling". I disagree with your opinion. "Driving While Hispanic" now constitutes "Probable Cause".

S. Lindsey wrote:

Arizonians pay $1BILLION per YEAR in Illegal Aliens Education, Medical care and Welfare.

It's "Education, Medical care, and Incarceration", not "Education, Medical Care and Welfare". Learn to regurgitate your talking points correctly.

S. Lindsey wrote:

btw.. I just love your obvious disdain for the local law-enforcement officers. Next time you need a COP call an Illegal Alien.. maybe you would prefer their help..

I don't see any "disdain" in his commentary. I guess you just had to throw some sort of insult in.

S. Lindsey
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Sniffles you get more ludicris everyday

So let's see your 1st point you don't agree or disagree.. YOU JUST DON'T KNOW.. not unusual for you.

Your 2nd point-You have to ASSUME that all Officers will just start misusing and abusing the intent of the law.. If that does not prove your 4th point I don't know what does..

Your 3rd point-Uhh ok..you want to add incarceration then I am fine with that.. If they are incarcerated then obliviously they have committed ADDITIONAL crimes abridging the rights of Arizona's Citizens.

Finally your 4th point- I would expect nothing less from a progressive. See your 2nd point for clarification.

btw.. "local know nothings" may be acceptable to you to call Men and Women who put their lives at risk everyday for their respective City's, County's and State for less than a lot of Garbagemen make.. but not to me.. Yeah Sniffy that's what I call obvious disdain.

dis·dain [ diss dáyn ]
intense scorn: extreme contempt or disgust for something or somebody
look down on somebody or something: to regard somebody or something as not worthy of respect

S. Lindsey
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Racist.. I think not..

"Several black activists plan to join members of the Minutemen Project to protest illegal immigration, which organizer Ted Hayes touted as the "biggest threat to blacks in America since slavery."
...

Hayes, a homeless activist, alleged that most homeless people in Los Angeles are black and illegal immigration compounds the problem since blacks refuse to accept the "slave wages" that many illegal immigrants accept.

...

"While all Americans are suffering from this invasion, we blacks are suffering the most," Hayes said. "We feel like the leaders promoting this issue are being insensitive. This country wasn't built on the backs of immigrants like (Villaraigosa) says. It was built on the back of West African slaves." CBS News

When the Black community joins in support of Arizona's law are "Republicans" then STILL Racist.. Lion?

Chris P. Bacon
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It's racism

Shorter SLindsey: "If white people don't think it's racist, and black people don't think it's racist, then it can't be racist. Who cares if only Hispanics are affected?"

The racism is so obvious that comedy shows are having a field day:
Saturday Night Live on Arizona's racism
The Daily Show on Arizona's racism

Oh, and by the way, here is the very best analysis I've read on the Arizona racism debacle:
Arizona GOP not worried about ILLEGAL Hispanics, they are scared of LEGAL Hispanics

S. Lindsey
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Wow using comedy shows as fact sources

a NEW low even for you. I guess now we need to listen to Colbert for our daily briefings..

Davids mom
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Immigration Bill Support

There will be individuals that may support the bill - but don't hold your breath about the 'black community'. Politicians have been trying for decades to divide the 'black' and Hispanic communities. The reality today is that this bill has motivated a huge registration campaign among Latino voters in urban areas to join the Democrats in ousting the Republicans. Read carefully the Investigation of Employers section of the Fact Sheet. Who pays for this addition to local enforcement responsibility? Read Miscellaneous section of Fact Sheet.

S. Lindsey
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Oh really DM?

"New Poll Reveals Minority Likely Voters Favor Enforcement Over Amnesty
Thursday, February 25, 2010, 12:01 PM EDT

A new poll conducted by Zogby finds that while many minority voters do support an amnesty, the majority favor enforcement efforts that encourage illegal aliens to go home.

Seems like unlike you most other minorities FAVOR immigration control..

http://cis.org/Minority-Views-Immigration

Davids mom
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Apples and Oranges SL

From SL's source:

While it is sometimes assumed that minorities, particularly Hispanics, favor increased immigration and legalization for illegal immigrants, a new Zogby survey finds that minority voters’ views are more complex. The poll of Hispanic, Asian-American, and African-American likely voters finds some support for legalization. But overall each of these groups prefers enforcement and for illegal immigrants to return home.

I'm not for increased immigration - I'm for solving the problem of identifying illegal immigrants. . . and noting the history of law enforcement's misuse of 'probable cause' there is a problem with the implementation of this bill. And SL - your source clearly states 'some' support of the Arizona legislation. . .right? Immigration 'control' and illegal identification are not the same. STOP ILLEGAL HIRING!

S. Lindsey
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DM I don't think that you are..

.. for Illegal Immigration.. I mean who is.. well those of LaRaza and those that want to profit off of the new slave class that is..

The issue here is that "our" Government is totally against doing anything to stop this.

They all have ties to growers and other businesses that want a cheap labor class. One side wants them for the votes same as the other side.

It's all a racket DM.. Corruption and pandering for a new class of slaves..

It has to stop.. DId you know that Arizona is #2 in the World for kidnapping? Think about that.. They are #1 in America and is just barely behind Bogotá for crimes involving kidnapping and rapes.

How would you like to live there with that axe hanging over you daily.. The only ones that have to face that daily are the Israelis.

Arizona was faced with an impossible choice do nothing and let crime continue to spiral out of control or this. Not great PR but effective in calling to light the issues don't cha think?

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Round em' up - ship em' out

Lindsey -

That is why just 'stopping illegal hiring' won't work. They are crooks once they crossed the border illegally. If no one will hire them, then they will merely start robbing innocent citizens and causing even more mayhem in our country.

We have to round 'em up and deport them all NOW!

Davids mom
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SL

One of the contributors here (kawfi) stated that if they don't have jobs, they would just rob and kill citizens - so round them up and ship them out. This is what Americans of all colors fear - an attitude of ignorance. Arizona and California have 'drug lord' problems - and I know that not all kidnappings are reported (from experience in Los Angeles' Hispanic community). American citizens of color are not going to be subjected to 'carrying papers' in this our country because some don't want to prosecute the employers! If illegals can't make money to send home, and have the chance of being arrested (if the law is enforced) - they'll stay home. . .or try to get a sponsor and enter legally. There are industries that will do this (sponsor and assist in legal entry). Living here as a poor person without a job is no picnic. What attracts illegals is the opportunity to work.

S. Lindsey
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Swat Teams called out on Grandma

Ohhh.. she looks dangerous. You know those teaparty radicals.. She's probably packing in her underwear.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOsKN71AKUE

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596 immigrants convicted of crimes nabbed in South

596 immigrants convicted of crimes nabbed in South
Apr 30 12:51 PM US/Eastern
By GREG BLUESTEIN
Associated Press Writer

ATLANTA (AP) - Federal agents say they have arrested 596 immigrants with criminal records during a three-day immigration enforcement sweep across the Southeast.
U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials said Friday that the operation, dubbed Operation Cross Check, was the largest ever conducted by the agency targeting foreign nationals convicted of crimes. They said the immigrants have already served their sentences and authorities will now seek to deport them.

Atlanta ICE Field Director Felicia Skinner says that "communities around the Southeast are safer than they were before" as a result. She said three of the people arrested this week had been convicted of murder and 144 were convicted on assault charges.