The Election

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JeffC
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Two months ago, before the Republican convention, I was rash enough to predict that Obama probably had CA, CO, CT, DC, DE, IL, MA, MD, ME, MN, NJ, NM, NY, OR, PA, RI, VT and WA for 230 delegates, and Romney probably has AL, AR, AZ, GA, ID, IN, KS, KY, LA, MO, MS, MT, ND, NE, OK, SC, SD, TN, TX, UT, WV and WY for 191 delegates.

That left the battleground states as: FL (29), IA (6), MI (16), NC (15), NH (4), NV (6), OH (18), VA (13) and WI (10).

The race has probably changed. Specifically, Colorado is probably not a lock for Obama reducing him to 220 delegates. But, Michigan is going Obama, giving him another 16, back up to 236. On the other hand, Romney almost certainly will take North Carolina, adding 15 delegates and bringing him to 206.

That leaves the battleground states as: CO (9), FL (29), IA (6), NH (4), NV (6), OH (18), VA (13) and WI (10).

Romney must take Florida although the trend is for Obama. He needs 64 electors and everything except Florida adds up to 67. If Romney loses Florida, he must win everything else and the odds of a scenario whereby Romney loses Florida and wins every other swing state are realistically about zero. So, give Florida to Romney or go to bed early; and now he is up to 235 needing 35.

Ohio is the big state left and Obama is ahead by about 3%, but it is almost impossible for Mitt to win without Ohio because if Obama gets Ohio then he is up to 254 and only needs 16 and Obama is ahead in all the swing states. So give Romney both Florida and Ohio to keep the race open and he is at 253.

That leaves the battleground states as: CO (9), IA (6), NH (4), NV (6), VA (13) and WI (10). It may surprise that Obama is ahead in Virginia and very well may take the state but again it seems to be another must win for Romney. It also illustrates the extremely difficult position Romney is in. Give him Florida and if he takes Ohio, North Carolina and Virginia, then he is at 266 and still doesn't win. He'll need one more state.

Colorado is going for Obama. Not a sure thing but Obama is way up. Iowa is Obama's and so is Nevada with its Jewish retirees and Latino populations. Wisconsin is going to Obama. Picking Ryan was a losing strategy that the extremists Teas forced on Mitt to prove again his conservative bona fides to them instead of allowing Romney to select a VP that would expand the Party. It showed weakness at the time and proved to be just that as Ryan can't even deliver his own state.

Obama has the momentum and is ahead in all of the swing states except Florida where he is tied. Romney's campaign is in full panic, as well they should be. Obama is going to win and it looks like a substantial win, probably between 45 and 65 electors.

Cyclist
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JeffC - Election Outcome

The Dems will take MI, OH, WI. The Repubs take CO, FL, IA, NV, NH, NC, VA.

Romney: 273
Obama: 265

Tight race.

Here's something to think about; if NH goes Dem the result is:

Romney: 269
Obama: 269

Egad!!!!! Now the "House" gets to vote for president. That will be real interesting.

If you win, I'll buy you a cup of coffee at the next get together. If I win you have to show-up at the next coffee gathering. Agreed?

Good Gawd, I hope there are not any "pregnant" chads.

Davids mom
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Cy

Iowa and Nevada? Hmmmmm. We'll see.

Cyclist
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Note to self...

You are not a politcal pollster.

Congratulations to the President.

Now we have a cold and cruel financial reality looming ahead. Can our leaders react and steer this nation to avoid the iceberg or will we strike the berg because of actions which are too little and too late? Eyes on Washington.

S. Lindsey
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Cy need help on your bug-out bag?

Just put 18 more quarts of Sweet Potatoes may have a few to spare for you..

PTC Observer
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JeffC - The numbers

just don't add up, it makes no difference who wins the next election.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Debt Jeff is something you owe to someone else, you must pay it back, you can pay it back or you can escape legally by declaring bankruptcy. A nation can declare bankruptcy by simply not paying the money owed, this has happened many times throughout history. A country that is paying more than 25% of its GDP on debt interest is a candidate for becoming another Germany.

We're there Jeff, the money supply is out of control and so is government debt spending.

So, just to get your head wrapped around this:

1. To pay back one million dollars, at a rate of one dollar per second, would take you 11.5 days.
2. To pay back one billion dollars, at a rate of one dollar per second, would take you 32 years.
3. To pay back one trillion dollars, at a rate of one dollar per second, would take you 31,688 years.
4. To pay back 17 trillion dollars, at a rate of one dollar per second, would take you 538,696 years.

The numbers just don't add up Jeff, the United States of America will ultimately have to reset its currency, default Jeff. It doesn't matter who wins and no one wants to acknowledge the elephant in the room.

S. Lindsey
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Pundits predicting Landslide

1: Kudlow said on his CNBC show “The Kudlow Report” on Oct. 25: ”I am now predicting a 330 vote electoral landslide.”

2: MSNBC Jow Scarbough... “But my gut tells me there are two likely scenarios: (1) President Obama will squeak out a narrow Electoral College victory or (2) Mitt Romney will carry Ohio and be swept into office by a comfortable margin.
After practicing politics for 20 years, I suppose I would rather be in Mitt Romney’s shoes than Barack Obama’s. Incumbents who are under 50 percent two weeks out usually go down to defeat.”

3: Karl Rove... "Let’s call it 51%-48%, with Mr. Romney carrying at least 279 Electoral College votes, probably more.”

4: George Will... “This Week,” predicting a 321-217 landslide that included nearly every swing state including Minnesota.

5: Dick Morris...“The most likely outcome? Eight GOP takeaways and two giveaways for a net gain of six. A 53-47 Senate, just like we have now, only opposite. Barack Obama’s parting gift to the Democratic Party.”

6: Washington Examiner Michael Barone... ”Bottom line: Romney 315, Obama 223. That sounds high for Romney. But he could drop Pennsylvania and Wisconsin and still win the election. Fundamentals.”

7: Wayne A. Root...“I’m predicting a 5 to 7 point popular vote victory. Electorally it won’t even be that close. Romney will win many states that went to Obama in 2008. I’m predicting Romney victories in Ohio, Florida, Colorado, Virginia, Iowa, Wisconsin, New Hampshire, North Carolina, and Indiana. I predict a Romney victory by 100 to 120 electoral votes.”

With American Jews giving Romney 85% of their vote compared to Obama's 80% in '08 and the Evangelical and Catholic vote not going to be close.

JeffC
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In your neocon dreams
S. Lindsey wrote:

With American Jews giving Romney 85% of their vote...

Mitt will be lucky to get 20%.

I haven't seen the right-wing echo chamber telling their flock that Haaretz, the largest newspaper in Israel, endorsed Obama on Saturday. I wonder how they missed that?

Liferfrom65
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Jeff
JeffC wrote:
S. Lindsey wrote:

With American Jews giving Romney 85% of their vote...

Mitt will be lucky to get 20%.

I haven't seen the right-wing echo chamber telling their flock that Haaretz, the largest newspaper in Israel, endorsed Obama on Saturday. I wonder how they missed that?

News flash, nobody over there is voting in this election, that's why.

Davids mom
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SL

Have you seen the diversity of Obama's campaign? SL - people are voting on issues and how these issues affect their famiilies. Why do you constantly try to put Americans under the 'labeling' system? I've lived with that over 50% of my life - and I'm beginning to see that many people are moving past that. Won't you join us? Race relations among individuals has improved over the past 30 years. It's those who use it as a political leverage that are hanging on to the 'old ways'.

Quote:

News flash, nobody over there is voting in this election, that's why

There are members of the Jewish culture here in the states who are very interested and informed about what is happening in Israel. Believe me - they know!!!

meanoldconservatives
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Old Uncle Joe might need to get those hair plugs re-tightened...

Yesterday, Uncle Joe Biden told Chris Matthews that Romney and Ryan are liars who “don’t have much character at all.” He also indicated they are running a "con game" on voters and offered that Barry, by contrast, “does not engage in deception.”

This from a confirmed liar and plagiarist himself. He told us in 1988 that he finished in the top half of his law school class, when in fact he was in the bottom 10-11%. He also claimed then to have graduated from college with three degrees, when in fact he has one degree. His successes of plagiarism are noted from his law school days all the way to stealing speeches from other politicians. And this senile old goofball comments on other candidates character???

Quallacherokee
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MOC

Barry doesn't engage in deception according to Biden?
Guess it WAS the video afterall,look you know and I know
the ONLY reason is VP is he was the PERFECT Flack Jacket for
Obama, With him around I have no doubt the Secret Service had time for Hookers

meanoldconservatives
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Slick Willie is getting in on it, as usual.....

Yesterday in Philadelphia Slick Willie told a crowd (assuming with a straight face):

“You’re laughing, but who wants a president who will knowingly, repeatedly tell you something he knows is not true?”

This from a U.S. President who was impeached on one count of perjury and one count of obstruction of justice after lying to a grand jury AND all of us.

This group of morally bankrupt manipulators can make any statements at all and their sycophantic, zombie-like crowds just lap it up like kittens at a bowl of milk.

Davids mom
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moc

Two presidents of the US have been 'impeached'. BOTH WERE ACQUITTED!

meanoldconservatives
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DM, I think I understand now....

You're saying he's actually an acquitted, impeached, lying POS. How appropriate that you are here defending that. You must be swelling with pride....

Davids mom
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moc
Quote:

I think I understand

LOL!!

Quallacherokee
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MOC and DM

William Jefferson Clinton WAS NOT acquitted, The Senate decided to NOT hand out "punishment" as is the Senate's "right" HOWEVER William Jefferson Clinton DID receive "non judicial" punishment, He WAS/IS dis Barred he WAS fined by the Democrat Party. Impeachment ONLY means "Found Guilty" of a crime, acquitted means NOT GUILTY ,,he WAS impeached...there was NO acquittal

Davids mom
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moc Q

CHeck out the history of 'impeachment' in the United States. Bill Clinton was ACQUITTED.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_States#Impeachmen...

Quallacherokee
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DM Impeachement

Miss DM, WIKI, is NOT a reliable source, You or I or for that matter some guy in China can "Write" in WIKI, without ANY real historical FACT.

For Acquitted and Impeachment definitions one MUST seek out American Legal Definitions usually easily found through the Library of Congress web site

Acquitted IS an American Legal term meant to describe a finding of "Not Guilty"

As ONLY the House of Representatives can impeach a President as they did with "Bill" Clinton, and NO resolution was ever recorded to reverse this impeachment... William Jefferson Clinton WAS, IS , IMPEACHED

Oh and BTW if you DO look up Impeached Presidents on WIKI,, Bill Clinton is Named

Davids mom
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im·peach·ment 

im·peach·ment   [im-peech-muhnt] Show IPA
noun
1.
the impeaching of a public official before an appropriate tribunal.
2.
(in Congress or a state legislature) the presentation of formal charges against a public official by the lower house, trial to be before the upper house.
3.
demonstration that a witness is less worthy of belief.
4.
the act of impeaching.
5.
the state of being impeached.

Bill Clinton’s trial came to an end on February 12, 1999

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0209/18734.html

He was acquitted .

I agree with your estimate of Wiki – but this is documented in history. To impeach is to bring charges.

Joe Kawfi
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Democrats - Morally Bankrupt

Good Description, MOC. Clinton was Impeached, which is the equivelant of being found guilty by the House of Representatives. It was the morally bankrupd Democrat party in the Senate that acquitted him. No Democrats voted to convict on either charge because they have no principles, hate women and think that the rule of law does not apply to them.

kcchiefandy
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Joe, I find it funny...

...if you or I did what he did, and has done probably more than once, you think our wives would stick around? Poor Hillary HAD to stick around to ride his public service gravy train coat tails to where she is today. I'll try not to shed any tears for her; she doesn't deserve any, anyway, just ask Ambassador Stevens & crew...

Quallacherokee
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Liferfrom65

""nobody over there is voting in this election""

Are you SURE? I mean dead folks get to vote well as long as they vote for O

JeffC
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Really Lifer? Another fact?
Liferfrom65 wrote:

News flash, nobody over there is voting in this election, that's why.

This stuff is so easy to check out that you might try it sometimes. In fact, over 150,000 Americans will vote in Israel, about one-fourth of all overseas ballots.

From the Jerusalem Post:

November 5: The local US vote

No. The right-wing smear is that the Democrats don't support Israel. You could listen to talk-radio for a hundred years and they would never tell you that the largest paper in Israel had endorsed Obama.

The Haaretz endorsement:

Obama is good for Israel

Cyclist
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The Haaretz endorsement....

and what the Huffington Post reported today.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/05/us-presidential-election-americ...

And we all know that the Huffington Post is always right.

Quallacherokee
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CY

Ya know, the sad thing is all this endorsement stuff is crap.
Tomorrow the US will either be back in the slow lane to Oblivion
or stay in the fast lane. I mean seriously, when was the last a you or anyone else heard a Dem or Repub, talk about restoring Constitutional Individual Liberty? and without Individual Liberty, there is NO America, Tomorrow we just decide HOW FAST we get to Europe

PTC Observer
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Q - you

are insightful.

Cyclist
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Quallacherokee

I know; but, tis the season of endorsements.

Anyways, I think we all understand that our nation has some very difficult and painful decisions ahead regardless of the political outcome. There are things like you pointed out that are very near and dear to some but not to the masses. They have entirely different set of expectations and needs.

Quallacherokee
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CY and PTCO

and anyone else reading my post...
I am NOT trying to be negative, just voicing my concerns and opinion.
to me it seems as if over the last 20 years or so the decline to Europeism
has been supercharged, and it further seems MY generation (1966) is most responsible, and THIS does make me sad,,,and mad..oh well, Thank God for escape plans...

PTC Observer
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Q - I am

not trying to be negative either. The fact is what you have touched on is the ultimate outcome of democracy. Look to Europe for our future and never underestimate the stupidity of the American electorate.

We were given a republic by our Founders and we could not keep it. That's the sad truth.

Liferfrom65
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Yeah really Jeff

Tomorrow you can go up and help him pack.

JeffC
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I'm not trying to make you mad Lifer

I watch the echo chamber. Critical stuff is missing which is intentional and which is also the reason that all the right-wing commentators try to get you not to listen to anything else. Facts are biased toward liberalism and so they ask that you not listen to or be exposed to alternate sources.

I'm just trying to warn you that it is not that close. Brace yourself.

If I'm wrong, y'all will no doubt point that out.

Mike King
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Hey Jeff,

Would you consider a friendly wager? You taking the incumbent, naturally.

Davids mom
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JeffC - Mike King

Just curious - was that wager ever made?

S. Lindsey
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From the AP..Jeff and DM

JERUSALEM (AP) — American expatriates in Israel are lining up strongly behind Republican candidate Mitt Romney, in contrast to their fellow Jews back in the U.S., according to a survey.
One recent survey estimated that more than four-fifths of expatriate voters here cast absentee ballots for Republican challenger Mitt Romney.
A survey by iVoteIsrael, a nonpartisan get-out-the-vote organization, found that 85 percent of American voters in Israel cast absentee ballots for Romney."

I seem to remember you guys said mostly the same thing in 2010.. I wonder what has changed to swing it the other way..

Could it be Obama's war on Religion...? Nope not it...
Could it be the Economy...? Nope not it either...
Could it be the price of gas...? Uh Uh not it either...
Could it be food prices, or the debt or the Arab Spring or the unemployed?

Nope all worse then 2010 so tell me Jeff and DM exactly what has changed for the better that would take the worst defeat of Democrats since 1938 into a victory in 2012?

Davids mom
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SL

Maybe an analysis of tomorrows results will help one answer your question.

S. Lindsey
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Oh..DM I suspect it will...I suspect it will

...but who knows maybe there is still some Hope out there that Obama will change things.. He has tried for 4 years and failed... who know like he told the President of Russia if he gets 4 more he will have more latitude to do as HE wants.

Ahh.. then the Socialism will flow like water from a ducks back and we will finally see the failed policies of the Progressive Party apparatchiks.

Unfortunately we will be the benefactor of those failed policies so what the heck.. I am prepared for it are you?

MYTMITE
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Today is the day that will decide our future for a long time to

come. I think it is time for all of us regardless of our religious beliefs or affiliations or no affiliation to say a silent prayer for our country. We, as a nation, have already strayed so far from what our Founding Fathers wanted for our country. We now ask what more our government can do for us with no thought for what we can do for our country. We have become so politically correct that we have trampled rights of the majority to protect a perceived right of a majority of one. We have people who do not go to the polls because they 'don't have the time' or feel their vote won't count and we have people who do not bother to learn the issues but vote for a president because he has charisma or because their favorite hip-hop artist backs him. So, which is the greater shame? We have candidates for the highest office in the country spending millions to become President--a position that pays only a portion on what many CEOs of major corporations make. Makes you wonder at the motivation---ego, greed for what the title can bring, or a desire to help this country achieve what it is possible of achieving? Definitely makes you wonder. Definitely a scenario scarier than anything Hollywood can conjure. I hope people take advantage of the opportunity that is offered to every American--the right to cast their ballot for the person of their choice. May the best person to lead our country come out the victor---and if we are fortunate it will be the right choice for our country.

Quallacherokee
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MYTMITE

My E friend, I have to take exception with one of your statements, otherwise
I agree with your statement.
The Exception? "" We have become so politically correct that we have trampled rights of the majority to protect a perceived right of a majority of one""

The Founding Fathers wanted a government to protect the Greatest, Smallest, Minority on the Planet, The Individual. There is no other "protection" guaranteed by the Constitution, no "group" or Majority has constitutional Protection, ONLY the Individual. When the Majority "has rights" above that of the Individual; this is the definition of a democracy, THE MOST Horrendous form of government every conceived of, and exactly WHY the Founders made certain to Require the US government to remain a Republican Form of Government. I have Rights, You have Rights, if we form a group "it" does not.

I assure you, you would NOT want to live in a country where the Majority rules, because the First time you find yourself in opposition of the majority, you will find out just how Evil Democracy is to Human Rights

MYTMITE
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Q, guess my mistake was in not stressing the perceived part.

Of course, perception like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Then, again, each of us is a majority of one--so when our rights as a group are trampled, we are, each and everyone of that majority, a minority.

Quallacherokee
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MYTMITE

I see you perceived my particular perception of your proposition of prognostication. The earlier purview of your potential prophetic pondering,
does prepare the Patriot of potential perils perpetuated on the public by pandering Presidents

peace out !

MYTMITE
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Q, you seem to be having a 'P" problem.

Did you get stuck on that one page in the dictionary? LOL Thanks for the giggle.

Davids mom
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Q
Quote:

I assure you, you would NOT want to live in a country where the Majority rules, because the First time you find yourself in opposition of the majority, you will find out just how Evil Democracy is to Human Rights

There is a great fear in this country that what was done unto 'them' will be done unto 'me'. Because of the labeling, it is difficult for individuals of a different 'label' to perceive of working together. Except for some, I think eventually this country will move towards individuals working together. Respect all human rights - regardless of the label one is PERCEIVED to have, can become a reality.

Quallacherokee
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DM

you and I can not "change a mans heart" his mind maybe. Until Humans evolve enough to see each other as "equal" in the order of importance Labels will exist.

All you and I can do is refuse to be Labeled, I get that about you, and can only hope I have been clear enough that folks know I will not be Labeled.
Obviously you and I can't stop folks from putting a label on us, but what we can and MUST do is not allow their Label to determine our Life/Actions

We MUST be Honest, we MUST be willing to accept there is evil, even amongst those in our circle, and We MUST be willing to identify this evil and cast it out of our circle. and most importantly we MUST MUST MUST know this evil can not be talked too, dealt with, reasoned with, or negotiated with.

Dr Martin Luther King Jr nailed this concept 100% head on, Character MUST be the judge of a man/woman/Human; and DM this is gonna be hardest on you and me, as it is OUR generations that MUST stop living in the past and live in the moment and for the future, this is OUR burden, this is OUR individual internal fight to forgive AND "forget" without forgetting what was learned from it for sure so as not to repeat this mistake/injustice. But dwelling in the past can ONLY lead ..to the Past thus nothing is ever moved Forward.

Public discussions like this imo are a good way to express an idea that Labels are evil, we can talk as equals here without physical barriers
inner thoughts can be expressed without political correctness peer pressure
applied. I see good things coming, BUT I also see OUR generation having the toughest time of it..

Once again DM Thank you for this polite conversation on this Heart Breaking RAW issue

yup, utopia is a long way off, but as long as folks like you and I can't release the past, utopia... remains Science Fiction

Davids mom
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Q

Thank you. The history of injustice and ignorance will alway be there. It is the attempt to 'return to those practices' by labeling our fellow human beings and treating them based on their 'label' rather than their actions that must be DISALLOWED. I think on this - we're on the same page. Now politics? I just can't come to trust the current Republicans!!!! LOL!

Davids mom
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Mytimite
Quote:

say a silent prayer for our country.

Amen!

lion
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MYTMITE

You seem to know what the Founding Fathers would want for our country today.

I think the Founding Fathers would be very pleased that over the course of time Americans ended slavery, gave women the right to vote, and extended civil rights to all Americans. The Founding Fathers would embrace the efforts to accept the diversity that America is today. The Founding Fathers were not closed minded conservatives but open minded followers of the Enlightenment.

The Founding Fathers would smile on the re-election of the first African-American President of the United States.

Davids mom
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lion

I've enjoyed reading the biographies of the Founding Fathers - and I agree - I think they would be pleased with the re-election. I'm watching that blue color on the Empire State Building!!

MYTMITE
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Lion, I am amused to see that you question that I "seem to know

what the Founding Founders would want for our country today." Then you go on to state all the things you think the Founding Fathers would be please about. Are you saying your crystal ball is bigger than my crystal ball? Must be since you have already predicted the results of the election. Are you sure you are not a reincarnation of DM?

Davids mom
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Come on people

Is it so hard to imagine that more than one person in Fayette County may have an opinion different from the 'conservatives' represented here? lion is not a 'reincarnation' of anyone!!

JeffC
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Most expats in Israel use the

Most expats in Israel use the “Vote from Abroad” website. iVoteIsreal targets Republicans. Read the link I posted above to the Jerusalem Post, "November 5: The local US vote"

S. Lindsey wrote:

...so tell me Jeff and DM exactly what has changed for the better that would take the worst defeat of Democrats since 1938 into a victory in 2012?

Why, the Tea Party, of course. Nobody really anticipated their extremism.

Quallacherokee
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Jeff C

You mention the Tea Party extremism?
I forget, how many Tea Partiers have been arrested at their gatherings?
compared to let's say Occupiers...???
Maybe we need to define Extremism.
To some, I'm sure asking for a Constitutional Government would seem extreme,
especially in 2012, good lord, that could mean Millions couldn't use government
to steal from their neighbors, other Millions would all of a sudden find out THEY and ONLY THEY are responsible for feeding clothing and housing themselves.
Yeah I could see where a sponge would call that extreme. and on the other side
it would be extreme to finds out they can't use government to FORCE their neighbor to "behave" in what they consider "moral" that all of a sudden their neighbor might have the CHOICE to pay for sex from another consenting adult or put acid in their veins..

Yup, I guess Individual Liberty in the US would be Extreme to either side of the current aisle

JeffC
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Define extremism.
Quallacherokee wrote:

Maybe we need to define Extremism.

I couldn't care less how many of either groups were arrested. How is that relevant?

I'm not arguing with you nor trying to change your mind nor about to start defining extremism for you. The arguments are over for a while, nothing either of us can say will change a single vote here and the Tea Party extremism has already been defined by Michele Bachmann, Newt Gingrich, Rick Santorum, Rick Perry, Herman Cain, Tim Paulenty, et al. The choices were almost pure TPs because they scared off everybody else.

When people examined their extremist views, they were rejected one by one and so you ended up with Mitt, a political shape-shifter. After all the sound and fury, the Republican Party ended up representing money. Knock me over with a feather. Who would have ever thunk it?

Let's vote.

meanoldconservatives
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OMG

Obama Must Go - today.

Quallacherokee
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It's easy to Forget

Living here sheltered in Fayette Co, it's easy to forget there are Liberals out there, next door maybe. Every now and then though Surprise! a Carpetbagger sneaks through, you know, a person who FLED whatever Liberal Hell they came from, a place with No jobs, Horrible schools, Blight everywhere, crime, basically no future and moved here, but didn't have the sense enough to leave their FAILED politics back "home". It'd be real easy to feel sorry for folks like this, I mean there must be some kind of Mental 'just not right" with this people, but ya know that's just not the case; they're not mentally challenged, they're Liberty Challenged, Freedom actually scares them. Now I don;t know if this is caused from self-doubt, or low esteem, or maybe their parents "helicoptered" them too much. What I do know is that patients err I mean people like this need Tough Love, not Coddling, Today, we have a chance right here in Fayette County to supply that Tough Love, I've already done what I can (last week) and can only hope most of Fayette Co will join me in this endeavor

kcchiefandy
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OH! Is that why, Q...

...Obama left Chicago?!?! NOW I get it! ;)

Davids mom
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Q
Quote:

that could mean Millions couldn't use government
to steal from their neighbors, other Millions would all of a sudden find out THEY and ONLY THEY are responsible for feeding clothing and housing themselves.
Yeah I could see where a sponge would call that extreme. and on the other side
it would be extreme to finds out they can't use government to FORCE their neighbor to "behave" in what they consider "moral" that all of a sudden their neighbor might have the CHOICE to pay for sex from another consenting adult or put acid in their veins..

When you use these words - what people come to mind in your thought? I bet they are completely different from the people that come to my thought. Some may see a 'ghetto' or 'barrio'; some may see a 'backwoods scenario in VIrginia or Tennessee; some may see the city blocks off of Hollywood Blvd; some may see the back roads of Georgia or Alabama or Mississippi; some may see the crowded streets of New York.

S. Lindsey
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Jeff.. who is more extreme..

The Teaparty or the Occupy crowd you guys run?

...and btw noticed you skipped right over what is better in 2012 then it was in 2010?

JeffC
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False equivalence SL

Who cares about Occupy? They're almost completely irrelevant; whereas the TEA Party has taken over the House.

I didn't skip your question although I did misread it when I answered: "The Tea Party". I didn't read that you had said "for better".

I'm getting antsy and I'm ready for some returns. How about you?

S. Lindsey
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Find out next year Jeff...

most likely who won... but it look like Obama has pulled this one out.. Let the slide to Socialism begin...

MYTMITE
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And the slide down that slippery slope begins---I hope and

pray that we can hold this country together and start to bring it back to what we once had, but that prospect seems slim.

Joe Kawfi
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Embrace the insanity, Mytmite

Obviously, the majority of living (and some dead) Americans like high unemployment, divisive, inept leadership, and a bad economy.

Time to buy another gun, quit the job, and start demanding that government pay for all of my needs that 47% of Americans now do.
It doesn't pay to work harder, because Obama and his monkey sidekick Shemp Biden want it all. 47% of Americans are not contributing their fair share, so it's time to lower my income to the point where I join them.

Embrace the insanity as Obama and Shemp take this country right into the toilet with the rest of the world.

S. Lindsey
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Not going to happen Mytmite...

Get prepared.. Store food, durable's and have an exit strategy.

The Entitlement crowd is now going berserk and it is only going to get worse. We can't afford their support any longer but yet more is about to come.

The economy is going to crash.. I had some hope along with the business community that we might see some light at the end of that tunnel, but it was just a big ole train..

Davids mom
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Mytimite

We'll slide if certain parts of the country refuses to acknowledge that we will never go back to the 'former social' past. By working together, we can correct what happened under the Bush administration - and get past the distraction that was tried by the Republican Party because the current administration was democrat and diverse. AMERICANS MUST WORK TOGETHER TO CORRECT THIS SITUATION! The Tea Party was taken over by extremists - and almost caused our decline. Balanced budget, decrease spending, share the responsibility of citizenship equally, close loop holes, - what is it that we cannot join hands and work out???? Romney is a good man. I'm grateful that Rove and Co. is no longer in control. Believe me, no one wants to slip down a slippery slope. The Republican Party has a proud history. Some of the people who believe that government does too much - voted for Obama. It's time for our leaders to sit down and talk - and Mitch McConnell failed!!!

S. Lindsey
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DM who is he going to blame now?

His policy's have already proved to have failed... They will continue to do so. Who is he going to blame now... You are still blaming Bush... It time to wake the heck up and smell the coffee you and all "your" friends are pushing the rest of us like lemmings right over the cliff.. and you are filled with JOY.

I am filled with the certain cold reality that the spending and entitlements are unsustainable. We are headed for a certain failed Republic and a corrupt Democracy.

But go ahead DM ENJOY...

kcchiefandy
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I don't know about you, SL...

...but I have a 2001 Chevy Silverado and I DEMAND I get a government rebate if I buy a newer, more fuel-efficent one. I also demand a free cell phone. I have VA medical coverage, so the gov't is already taking care of me there (of course I spent 25 years of my life qualifying for it, but others do need to do anything for it). Does anyone know any other gov't programs I can get free stuff from? We all need to start taking advantage now, before it's all gone.

mudcat
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You are half-joking, but last night proved one thing for sure

Entitlement mentality rules. Nothing shows the divided country more clearly than the popular vote. Now we are going to have 4 years of the rest of the Greatest Generation dying off and many old school Baby Boomers departing as well. Replacing them in the voting booth will be 3rd and 4th generation welfare offspring and a bunch of unemployable recent college graduates - first time voters all.

So, how do you think that works out for 2016? Only hope is a youthful Hispanic Republican against an aging Democrat flower child.

Oh yea, don't forget at least 3 new Supreme Court judges. Just as qualified as the last 2 he put in there. Wonder which sacred part of the Constitution will be attacked first?

Davids mom
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Mudcat
Quote:

So, how do you think that works out for 2016? Only hope is a youthful Hispanic Republican against an aging Democrat flower child.

Still labeling. The 'youth' are sick of it! They are more than their label - they are the sum of their ideas. The Republican Party needs to be more inclusive with their 'ideas' or the Independents will take a large part of potential Republicans.. Get rid of Rove and pals. He is still in the 20th century as his failure with Bush and Romney validates.

kcchiefandy
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Seriously, Mudkitty...

...I'm ready to buy a new vehicle, so where is MY CASH for trading in my 8-cylinder clunker?? So now the gov't isn't down with handing out $$ for this program? Why not? So, the he11 with me now? Gee, thanks; where's all that 'equal chance' crap talk now?

S. Lindsey
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Look for a Supreme replacement in year 1...

Remember also the 2nd Amendment only survived by 1 vote...JUST 1.

Also remember that the Fairness Doctrine was not pushed and tabled until 2013.. Free Speech will go as well. Enjoy blogging for soon it will have to comply with the FD rules and regulations.

Taxes are going to be raised on the Suburbs to pay for the Cities..
"In July of 2011, Kruglik and Orfield met with Obama at the White House, in a forum called "First Suburbs, Inclusion, Sustainability and Economic Growth followed by a private meeting in the Oval Office between Kruglik and the President. Obama's friendships with radicals of his youth have clearly been "sustainable."

http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/detail/spreading-the-w...

...and so much more is coming.

SPQR
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S.L. Welcome to the

"Brave New World"

MYTMITE
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Mudcat, Marco Rubio has all the qualifications-----

He's charismatic, well spoken and best of all he is Hispanic. Regardless of his beliefs the Hispanics will vote for him to see a Hispanic in office just as many blacks voted for Obama to have a black president. Rubio was smart enough not to throw his hat in the ring this time--he did not want to be a Vice President and then run in the next election carrying the baggage of the former president. Waiting to run in the next election gives him a clean slate and I think he will definitely be ready then.

Davids mom
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You don't get it - Mytimite
Quote:

Regardless of his beliefs the Hispanics will vote for him to see a Hispanic in office just as many blacks voted for Obama to have a black president.

It's that thought that will push young Republicans to become Independents. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton ran for president - and 'blacks' did not vote for them because they were 'black'. The majority of blacks voted for Obama because he was qualified, knowledgeable,had beliefs that they believed in and is charismatic. Hispanics may vote for Rubio for the same reasons - not just because of his last name. REGARDLESS OF HIS BELIEFS - is insulting to the Hispanic people - but I really feel you don't even realize that. It's not politically correct - but thinking with respect of others that one should be aware of how their words are perceived. Minorities, especially here in the south had to learn that in order to survive. We were taught how to talk around 'white' folks so as not to get ourselves or our families into 'trouble'.

kcchiefandy
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Partially wrong, DM...

...as many did & do vote for those mentioned because of the color of their skin and/or ethnicity. Jesse & Al never received the nomination, so we'll never know for certain; Obama did and it was painfully clear this was done, enmass, due to the historic opportunity (and I cite 3 black Republicans who told me thus). Conversely, you'll probably find many whites who vote white for the same reason, i.e. keeping color out and white in.

I agree the younger generation will probably vote less along these lines, but I surmise it may be 1-3 generations from now. Younger voters, due to their youth & ignorance of life and all its concerns, will often vote the easiest path until they mature and have experienced what we elders have seen. Right now, that's the path of entitlement, and many display that attitude in many places and many ways. We may never return to the days of shared sacrifices, but it is up to us, the elder crowd, to guide them the right way.

Larry Sussberg
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Republicans and change

I hope Republicans regroup and learn from this defeat.
The stats are showing that young people, women and minorities, especially Latinos made the difference.

Obama won the election while losing 20% of the white vote and Latinos broke over 10% of the total vote.

Republicans need to open their doors and allow for all people....
Hopefully under a fiscal conservative flag while dropping the social issues.

Ronald Regan built a big tent....it's time to get back to that with a focus on the new face of America.
Being an old white guy, it's pretty clear America is changing, as its always done since we are a country of immigrants who come here for opportunities not entitlements.

We need a new Ronald Regan!

IMHO

GeorgeDienhart
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Its a big tent-

Those of us in the party just need to stick our hand out to blue dog Democrats, to start. So, Larry, can I sign you up?

We as Republicans do need to reach out to Latinos, blacks, women and Jewish people. We can no longer count on be the white guy party. There are plenty of conservatives in the groups I mentioned.

Davids mom
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Dienhart

Your attitude may be the basis of the salvation of Republican Party. You are correct, there are conservatives in all the above mentioned groups.

Joe Kawfi
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You bought into the lie, Larry - hook, line, and sucker

We have plenty of highly achieved minorities in our party, and they are in prominent positions, and they all have a common story. We had Suzanne Martinez, female Hispanic governor, New Mexico. We had Condoleezza Rice, former secretary of state. Both of those people imminently qualified, terrifically achieved. They have reached the pinnacles of their profession. We had Marco Rubio. We had a parade of minorities who have become successful Americans. And they all had a common story: up from nothing, hard work, their parents sacrificed for them.
They all came from nothing. Their parents came from nothing. They worked hard. They told those stories with great pride. Those stories evoked tears. It didn't work because their stories involved hard work and sacrifice. Today's gimmee generation doesn't want to hear that. They want a sugar-daddy figure that tells them that someone else took from them, (didn't build that!) and he is there to take it back for them.

Davids mom
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Joe
Quote:

They all came from nothing. Their parents came from nothing. They worked hard. They told those stories with great pride. Those stories evoked tears

Do some research ! They did not all come from nothing!! Your biased perception of minorities is sick!!

Davids mom
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KC
Quote:

I agree the younger generation will probably vote less along these lines, but I surmise it may be 1-3 generations from now.

I was wrong when I thought I'd never live to see a 'black' president who received a sizeable percentage of white support. My sons are sick of this stuff. They and their children will vote on issues, not fear of a different race or gender; not fearful of some perceived loss of power by voting for an American with a different ethnic background. This was my first time voting for a black president - twice ! I've never had a problem voting for a 'white' one,

kcchiefandy
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Your sons, DM...

...are part of the 1st generation voting lines, as I stated, but as almost half of the voters still voted for 'the conservative guy touting fiscal responsibility and jobs', you can see it will take quite some time before any significant change in voting patterns.

Davids mom
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We'll see. KC

Enjoy this beautiful day!

MYTMITE
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No, DM, you are the one who does not get it. And political

correctness be damned. That is one of the things that has worked to this countries detriment. We are so afraid to be politically incorrect that we bend over completely the other way. If you would be completely honest with yourself and all of us here you would have to admit that if a white minister (and I am not talking about the KKK) stood at his pulpit and told his congregation that they should vote for a white man, not because of his credentials but because of his color, the Jesse Jacksons, Al Sharptons et al, would be up in arms yelling discrimination. Yet this has been done right here in the Atlanta area---why didn't you here on this site, denounce this as racist? Your silence was thundering. One thing I have noticed time after time, you thrust and parry on issues and when someone calls you out on it you bring out "let's all join hands and get together".

Time after time I have seen african americans on tv during the last election and this one say that they were voting for Obama because they wanted to see a black man in the White House. As for the hispanic vote, I lived for many years in Miami. Believe me, the hispanics get out and vote for a hispanic candidate regardless--there may be some who don't but the majority do--and they make no bones about it. And for the record, my remarks about Rubio and the hispanic vote was in answer to a post by Mudcat.

Just one other thing, I would like to make a suggestion. You continue to talk about moving on--yet you seem to be the one stuck in the past. There may have been a post where you did not mention what you and yours have gone through in the past (see your last 2 lines of your previous post) but I must have missed it. You really have no idea what the ethnic background of other posters may be, yet you assume we have not had to overcome obstacles and maybe discrimination. Where is the political correctness there?

Davids mom
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Mytimite
Quote:

If you would be completely honest with yourself and all of us here you would have to admit that if a white minister (and I am not talking about the KKK) stood at his pulpit and told his congregation that they should vote for a white man, not because of his credentials but because of his color

Do you really believe that I have never heard a white minister say that in my lifetime? Your words are all I can go on regarding your experiences. Do you think that 'whites' don't vote for 'whites' just because they are white? In this election the president of the US got the majority of the vote from all groups of Americans except for elderly white men. Americans voted for the man they wanted in the White House. Southerners/ Red States did not represent the majority on Tuesday. The rest of the country voted on issues apparently. Obama's color was not the prime factor in this election. How to solvie our economic problems is the issue. The people have spoken. The majority of the country wants our leaders to work together to solve our problems. The color of the presidents skin is no longer the issue.

Darn it - all Hispanics are not the same!! The majority of Hispanics in Florida are Cuban. The majority of Hispanics in California are from Mexico and Central/South America. They speak Spanish, but have unique cultures. You seem to feel perfectly fine in posting your opinion and likes and dislikes which may make others 'uncomfortable, but you don't want to have me post mine that may make you 'uncomfortable'. Honey, no one is making you read what I post. It is obvious that my perspective is different from the majority in any discussion regarding race in this forum. If I based my opinion regarding American white people on what is posted here - I would not want to associate with any white people. Fortunately I have lived with Americans of all backgrounds all of my life. I'm grateful that I have had the opportunity to live and socialize with 'southern' whites'. Many of my own bigoted prejudices have been erased. I know that the statements of a few whites do not represent the entire group. Mytimite, Hispanics and blacks are composed of individuals with many different experiences and opinions. I'm just one sharing mine. I realize that you are just one person sharing yours .

MYTMITE
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Yep, just one person sharing their view as I was in response to

a post from Mudcat as I said before. And, honey, no one is making you read my posts either. Nothing anyone says here makes me feel uncomfortable. And a correction, many hispanics in Florida are Cuban, but there are many from many other hispanic countries just as there are here in Georgia and many other states. The fact that you continually state that you have had the opportunity to live and socialize with southern whites and have many of your own bigoted prejudices erased makes it that much harder for me to understand why there is always the necessity to bring up the past; especially since you are always saying we should move on. Again just my opinion and as you say,I,like you, am only one person sharing that opinion.

Davids mom
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Mytimite

It is wisdom to forgive - but not forget Or the errors of history will be repeated.

MYTMITE
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Yes, forgive but not forget but not constantly regurgitate.

I think you honestly feel you have forgiven but the fact that it is constantly brought to the forefromt in your conversatons here indicates that you have evidently not forgiven.

Davids mom
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Mytimite

Maybe because of my perception or misperception that you never 'knew' - and refuse to accept some enlightenment, I can only go by what your words convey. You make statements that seem to want to 'forget' what has been forgiven, Most people here don't even react to a 'reminder'. . .for they know what was 'before' and in Fayetteville - is not being repeated. You seem to ignore that I celebrate what I experience here - and react to the ignorance of Grizz, Joe Kawfi, etc, and those who seem to take serious offense at my basing some of my experiences on 'history'. . .and the reasons I have to celebrate the current situation of 'race relations' in the South.

MYTMITE
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I never knew and refuse to accept some enlightment?

I was paraphrasing your statement about forgiving but not forgetting. Forgiving but not forgetting to me must mean something completely different from your interpretation. I think it means to forgive and put the situation in the back of your mind---not to constantly dwell on it--not to make it part of each and every thing you write. I honestly think you do not realize just how often you do this. It is the "but" that is always expressed or implied. You constantly say you celebrate what you experience here but there is always an implied asterisk. DM, many of us have suffered in many different ways and many have been hurt badly by the actions of others, maybe not in the same way but it is there nevertheless. Some on this site are crude and brutal in their assessments on some occasions I agree. I have had it spewed on me at times--I do not assume it is because of me personally but more at the views I have expressed. I do not get angry, I do not cry or pout. I learned long long time ago to not let others define what I am or to let them make me feel I am less than what I am. I do not take it personally--maybe that is the real difference here. I think you take all of it personally and that is a heavy burden to carry.

Davids mom
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Not crying

Or pouting! Right now, I'm probably the happiest person posting!! :-)

MYTMITE
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One interesting thing I saw last night that I feel reflects the

true picture in this country. In an exit interview, a reporter asked a woman how she had voted and why. Her response was that she had voted for Romney because of what she felt he could do for the country. Then he interviewed a man and his reply was that he had voted for Obama because he had given this and he had given that. I thought to myself that there is a nutshell was what was wrong with our country today. More and more we are becoming a country waiting for the next handout. What will happen when there is no more to give? and that day will surely come and we will be left with a population that for the most part has never learned to fend for themselves. I view what is happened to our country as the same thing when parents do everything for their child--that child becomes an adult with no skills to stand on their own two feet-always ready to blame others for their failures and accomplishing very few successes. That I am afraid is where our once great and proud country is heading.

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