The Election

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Davids mom
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Moc

:-)

S. Lindsey
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Rhetoric MOC DM has little else...

She sometimes forgets what she herself says so she falls back on kumbayah statements to try to back pedal.

Hypocrisy is her trade in words.. You have to remember she was the one chastising everyone for "angry" language all the while belittling anyone's educational status that didn't agree with her, never saying anything about Bacon's attack on everyone's family.

She is blind to her own faults.

kcchiefandy
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It seems it is time, SL...

...for 'bread & circuses' (was that Caesar?), and perhaps we have our Nero fiddling as Rome burns. They'll be no accountability from the administration for what is to come, other than blaming Bush once again. Let's hope the obvious necessities come to fruition, but I for one highly doubt they will. The can will be once again kicked down the road, until it rolls of the cliff.

MYTMITE
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Yes, Mud it does seem unfair and in the end it will hurt the

very people it was supposed to help. My daughter and son-in-law operate a restaurant/tavern and they have been holding on for 23 years, somewhat of a record for small business owner in this field. Everyone thinks they are making a killing when in fact, some nights their bartenders and servers make more than they do. Many times hey have dipped into their own savings to keep it going; now those savings are non-existent. The thing that many people do not realize is that the government both local and national have so many laws, taxes and rules that you spend so much time and money just trying to keep up with everything. And God help you if you make a small accounting error in a tax report because the fine will be astronomical. Things are such that they have decided not to even open on New Year's Eve which should be one of the best nights in their industry. They are a neighborhood tavern and from the beginning chose not to charge a cover charge for special events--but your entertainment jacks up it's cost at least 200% on special nights, so you eat this expense, the liquor and beer distributors no longer give favors to be dispensed, so you go to Party City and there is that expense, you don't charge more on those special occasions because your regular customers will resent it so you either operate at a loss or close. This year they will close for the first time in 23 years. And they don't know how long they can keep the doors open with all the changes coming. When that day comes there will be cooks, diswashers, bartenders and floor servers out of work, to say nothing about the loss my daughter and son-in-law will take after 23 years of 18 hour work days. This seems to be the new American Way. Sad.

kcchiefandy
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That is unfortunate, Mytmite...

...as this story will probably be repeated over and over again as the government(s) choke the life out of the small entrepreneurial spirit. I bet they have a great place, if it's survived for 23 years! Hopefully the coming taxes & other gov't requirements won't choke the life out of them.

MYTMITE
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Thanks KCFA, it is a great place and most of their customers are

repeats that have been coming there for years. They were featured on Guy Fieri's show and they have become friends with him and his crew. It is a very down to earth place with excellent food as my son-in-law was trained as a chef in one of the best restaurants in South Florida. It would be heartbreaking to see it have to close. As any one who has ever owned a tavern or restaurant know there are many employees who are pretty transient. While the have some employees who have been there for years there are others that come and go. Just the paper work to cover and keep up with these employees if it becomes imperative to cover them with insurance will be prohibitive. We will just have to wait and see.

lion
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Q

How pathetic are your comments.

President Obama, our first African-American President, won re-election by a large electoral vote margin. He won the popular vote. He won every "battle ground" state.

Dems increased their majority in the Senate. Dems reduced the Reps majority in the House.

There are now 20 women in the U.S. Senate.

Gay marriage won in four states.

Obamacare is secure so tens of millions of more Americans will have heath care.

The U.S. Supreme Court will likely change to be more liberal or moderate.

And Barack, Michelle, and their daughters are a model family which all Americans (except you apparently) can be proud of.

And you rant about music at his victory rally?? Any thoughts on Bruce S. and his support of President Obama?

I know you are bitterly disappointed about the election results. But get a grip and some perspective.

Veritas
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..

..

Veritas
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Why Obama was re-elected

There is really nothing to be proud of on either side..,
1. Republicans choice is the man that lost to the candidate that lost to Obama the first go round.
2. Romney has Lost more elections than any candidate in a long long time if ever :22 contests 5 won 17 Lost
And yet republicans insanely believe he could win LOL. I myself almost vomited while voting for Mitt.( but anyone's better than Obama ..? .. Right?)
And drum roll
3. This the primarily why Obama was re-elected:
Year Researched Data———2009————-2007————2008———-2009
State——-% of Pop on Welfare—–Spending on Welfare—-Total on Welfare—–Unemp
#1. California……………3.30%………………$3.28 BILLION………..1,212,893…….11.5%
#2. Maine………………..2.37%……………….$61.73 MILLION………..31,148……….8.3%
#3. Tennessee………….2.15%……………..$91.28 MILLION……….133,505……….10.7%
#4. Massachusetts…….2.09%…………….$295.29 MILLION………136,033………8.2%
#5. Vermont…………….2.02%……………..$30.92 MILLION………..12,543……..7.3%
#6. Wash DC…………..1.99%……………….$18.67 MILLION………..11,806………..10.7%
#7. New York…………..1.92%………………$1.47 BILLION…………..373,305………8.2%
#8. Minnesota…………..1.88%………………$106.29 MILLION………98,028…….8.2%
#9. Washington…………1.86%………………$265.88 MILLION……121,864……..9.4%
#10. New Mexico……….1.83%………………$58.87 MILLION…….36,322…………..6.5%
#11. Indiana……………..1.83%………………..$102.27 MILLION…..116,430……….10.6%
#12. Rhode Island……..1.79%……………….$57.4 MILLION…………..18,839…………..12.1%
#13. Michigan…………..1.60%………………..$380.93 MILLION……….164,589………14.1%
#14.Pennsylvania……….1.60%………………$247.29 MILLION………198,666…………8.2%
#15. Oregon…………….1.55%………………….$83.85 MILLION……….58,831………….12.4%
http://www.cnbc.com/id/31910310?slide=15
13 of the top 15 welfare states are Democrat.. Coincidence …
I think Not.
Welcome to 4 more! God help us!

S. Lindsey
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Vertias-California will now be a microcosm for Socialist ...

...rule.
They voted to raise taxes on the businesses and wealthy. They also now have a Super Majority of Democrats. They don't need a single Republican to vote on anything to get something passed.

So now we will see what a truly Socialist form of Government looks like.

The mass exodus has already begun. Soon very soon those standing in line for their "Free Stuff" will outnumber the productive class and California will sink under their weight of debt. We will be able to see how Americans do Socialism.

JeffC
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Welfare states Veritas?

Here's a report from the Tax Foundation. No liberal organization at all except that they do recognize the validity of math.

The report shows that of the 32 states (and the District of Columbia) that are "winners" -- receiving more in federal spending than they pay in federal taxes -- 76% are Red States that voted for George Bush in 2000. Indeed, 17 of the 20 (85%) states receiving the most federal spending per dollar of federal taxes paid are Red States. Here are the Top 10 states that feed at the federal trough:

States Receiving Most in Federal Spending Per Dollar of Federal Taxes Paid:

1. D.C. ($6.17)
2. North Dakota ($2.03)
3. New Mexico ($1.89)
4. Mississippi ($1.84)
5. Alaska ($1.82)
6. West Virginia ($1.74)
7. Montana ($1.64)
8. Alabama ($1.61)
9. South Dakota ($1.59)
10. Arkansas ($1.53)

In contrast, of the 16 states that are "losers" -- receiving less in federal spending than they pay in federal taxes -- 69% are Blue States that voted for Al Gore in 2000. Indeed, 11 of the 14 (79%) of the states receiving the least federal spending per dollar of federal taxes paid are Blue States. Here are the Top 10 states that supply feed for the federal trough:

States Receiving Least in Federal Spending Per Dollar of Federal Taxes Paid:

1. New Jersey ($0.62)
2. Connecticut ($0.64)
3. New Hampshire ($0.68)
4. Nevada ($0.73)
5. Illinois ($0.77)
6. Minnesota ($0.77)
7. Colorado ($0.79)
8. Massachusetts ($0.79)
9. California ($0.81)
10. New York ($0.81)

Two states -- Florida and Oregon (coincidentally, the two closest states in the 2000 Presidential election) -- received $1.00 in federal spending for each $1.00 in federal taxes paid.

You live in a welfare state so you're not paying for the welfare you are decrying. The Democratic welfare states are paying for them and for the Federal handouts you're getting.

Veritas
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Jeff again

You missed the truth .. States with highest number welfare recipients, the highest total on welfare and higher percentage of unemployed are which ones Jeff? Who did they vote for and why? I know you are smarter than that.
Your deflection and dillusion is a another DMOMESQUE weak attempt.

P.S Relying on ...2005 study ..a little dated isn't it.

JeffC
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I didn't miss the point Veritas, you did

Do I get to count everybody in DC, North Dakota, New Mexico, Mississippi, Alaska, Georgia, etc? All of those states that get more Federal money than they pay in income taxes.

Georgia is a welfare state. We enjoy the income taxes that are paid in California, New York and Illinois and transferred to Georgia to help finance our state.

Is that somehow not welfare? Are you not receiving welfare from New Jersey, Connecticut, Obama's home state of Illinois, Massachusetts, California and New York? They do have the largest direct payments to their citizens on welfare. After they pay that, people in Chicago where Obama is from, send 23 cents out of every dollar they pay in income tax to Georgia to pay for your welfare drag.

They plain undeniable fact is that Democratic states pay more in income tax than the Republican states and they always have. And the overpayment is then transferred to the Republican states.

You live in a subsidized welfare state paid for by California and New York.

lion
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JeffC

You are absolutely correct.

Georgia is a welfare state receiving more Federal funds than it pays into the Federal coffers. Yet our conservative Republicans huff and puff about how much more virtuous Georgia is than states like California.

Facts are such a difficult reality for some people to deal with.

kcchiefandy
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Lion, is it GA in general...

...or mainly the metro ATL-area counties? Or is it the primarily rural areas, or both equally?

Veritas
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Jeff come in try harder

I personally don't receive handouts and I do pay taxes which pays for all welfare programs regardless of state. Unlike your party supporters and constituency, those waiting for the handouts congregate in the state with the largest electoral college votes and are blue states. What they do with the money after they payoff the riders makes no difference and is besides the point you continually miss( though you did allude to it)The promise of free money, food and healthcare without regulars for how to pay for it or who pays for it got your guy back in office. No matter how you twist turn and spin that is the fact.
;-)
Have a great night

Davids mom
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OOOO VERITAS

Are you dizzy from the spinning? LOL!!

Veritas
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LOL DM

Cute cute Naaa . Small screen on a smart phone and dad gummed auto correct.
" with no regard"
No spin here maybe your trifocals all fogged up or that comprehension issue you got catching you!
Just pokin fun
;-)

JeffC
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OK Veritas, I'll try harder

Georgia is a welfare state as are all of the southern states. You do not "pay taxes which pays for all welfare programs regardless of state". Georgia does not pay enough taxes to cover our welfare debt. The federal government sends tax money from California to Georgia to cover the short fall that Georgia doesn't pay as a state. California, New York and Illinois not only pay the slack in Georgia's welfare status after paying for all of their own welfare they also pay for the rest of the government including all of the military. Georgia is a net drag on the balance of payments. That is just undeniable math.

The Federal government pays for everything the Federal government pays for and that includes the welfare that Georgia cost.

The Democratic states you criticize finance their own welfare costs no matter how large, then they finance us and then they finance everything else. After the people in California pay for all their welfare cost, they then send 19 cents of every dollar they pay in income tax to the Federal government to pay for the military and then to pay for Georgia.

Georgia is a welfare state. The people in Georgia don't pay for anything the Federal government pays for outside of the state. Georgia is a cost center, as are 78% of the red states.

Sorry. I'm using math for the few days it's still in vogue.

Veritas
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Jeff just not good enough

Good morning Jeff,
Before I go out and enjoy nature and try to lend a hand at curbing Georgia's odocoileus virginianus population and feed my family. I'll leave you with this little tidbit.
Actually by modern math and Government Data . Georgia received far less federal money than 47 states and is among the bottom 7. Source: U.S. Census Bureau, Consolidated Federal Funds Report for Fiscal Year 2009.
Granted not 2011 but more relevant than 2005. I also recognize that those change from fiscal year to fiscal year. The 2011 report may come out and flip the federal funding Map upside down. So don't rely on 4 or 2 yr old data. Now, granted we don't know exactly what that money was spent on either. But again your attempt at obfuscation failed.
You may need to try that new math curriculum or maybe more up to date. But back to the real point(that consistently seems to elude you) and a statistic that remains fairly consistent. Your blue states and the larger portion of the electoral college have the vast majority of individuals per capita receiving welfare and Gov assistance and the majority of those supported Obama.
.

Your best just doesn't seem to be good enough.
But hey it is what it is and the country must move on.

JeffC
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Good afternoon Veritas

You're imminently sensible suggestion to go out and enjoy nature seems destined to handily trump anything I could blather on about. We can just as easily solve all of the world's problems on a day when it is raining.

Good luck against odocoileus virginianus. I got one this year already. Unfortunately, it was with my Trans Am.

Davids mom
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Veritas

. . .and check out the states with the lowest academic achievement and income levels. The South wins again!! Who are these people on welfare? Veterans, persons who have lost their jobs during this fiscal chaos. They voted for Obama because they couldn't quite get a handle on what Romney was proposing. . .and things are slowly but surely turning around. But they don't add up to half of the country. Now you can try to belittle my opinion - and that is what it is - I haven't taken any 'polls'. But the biggest poll is 332 to 206 electoral college votes. That does not represent just those who are unemployed. 50% to 48%. popular vote. A truly divided country - but our enemies are watching closely - because we can become vulnerable to outside sources using our divisions to weaken us. Are these divisions enough to weaken the United States? I pray not. No riots, no cowboys walking down our streets carrying AK 47's, and please, no assassinations, I've lived through too many. Enough of DMOMESQUE!

kcchiefandy
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Gotta admit, JeffC...

...that those numbers are impressive, albeit old, and tell nothing of what is going on within the state for why the Feds are, or are not, giving out $$. As known by many, you can make statistics say anything you want, just as you did here. 'Federal Spending' can mean oh so many things; got any specifics on what this $$ was spent on? According to your last statement, it was welfare payments. So, was it? Or was it legitimate spending? Or was it for LSD sprayed on MARTA lines? Please, do let us know.

JeffC
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Well you got me kcchiefandy

I have no idea where they spent it.

I can only suppose that it was spent by the government in an intellectually targeted methodology.

Hahahahaha.

(If those are my only choices, I'm definitely going with the LSD. That's the only choice that explains everything).

kcchiefandy
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I agree, JeffC...

...I'm CERTAIN is was spent very, very wisely...!

Cyclist
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JeffC: Tax Foundation

According to your source, the distribution of federal taxing and spending is mostly driven by tax burdens, not the ability of lawmakers to divert spending to their home states.

http://taxfoundation.org/blog/why-do-some-states-feast-federal-spending-...

Davids mom
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Veritas - Why Obama won

Romney having supporters like Ted Nugent

Veritas
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Really .. DM why OBAMA won
S. Lindsey
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Wasting your time Vertas..DM is blind

to her own ideology. She loves to point out those on the Right that she feels are radical but yet is blind to those on the Left.

Davids mom
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Veritas

Aren't you grateful to 50% of the voters who prevented riots? You're safe from marauding Democrats. My eyes are wide open, thanks to you. Trash comes in all colors. We're aware of them, and don't have to associate with them, right? I'm glad you were aware that Obama would win the election. Someone should have been honest with Romney. He was most gracious, and acted with the class of a leader when delivering his concession speech. Now I hope we observe statesmanship from our leaders between now and December 31. The operative words? Raising the tax rate. This will be interesting to watch . I am well aware of where I live, in the heart of the most solidly Republican part of Georgia. The rest of the country is not as wedded to the current Republican Party. . . as this election demonstrated.

Let's hope Trump is unsuccessful in organizing his revolution. (I'm sure he meant a peaceful one)

PTC Observer
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Well Jeff

here we are, spent a billion plus dollars and we're in the same place.

I understand that Mr. Obama is going to address the nation tomorrow. It will be interesting to see what he does, not what he says.

I have low expectations about all this, as we all fall into the abyss together.

We're still in serious trouble.

rolling stone
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Cheer up PTC Observer

Obama is no longer constrained by the need to be reelected. The pressure to get moving has been building and will begin to overcome the inertia. I suggest that you leave the gloom and doom stuff to the experts, it is not your strong suit.

PTC Observer
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Rolling - well

Well thanks Rolling, I didn't realize I was projecting anything but reality.

Or don't you believe there is a reality?

The fact is Mr. Obama has no reason to compromise. He has it all, higher taxes and a reduction in defense spending. He's exactly where he wants to be based on his philosophy.

Quite frankly, I don't think he cares much where it all ends up because he actually thinks it will all workout in the end. The end point is out there four years from now. He doesn't much care where business ends up either, they are evil capitalists. He thinks America has spent way too much time on getting into other countries' business and it should project less power not more, so go ahead and cut defense. He considers it a waste anyway.

So, there you have it, no movement on anything by December 31st and he can blame it all on the other side. Everyone so far has believed him anyway. He'll get the wealthy next year, he's got time now.

rolling stone
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PTC Observer: Reality, what a concept.
Quote:

Or don't you believe there is a reality?

I believe that reality is not fatalistic. I feel that there will be a tiny sliver of consciousness displayed by the players and some progress will be made.

JeffC
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Yes PTCO

After all is said and done, we are still in serious trouble.

Tomorrow he will talk about the fiscal cliff and call for immediate reinstitution of Bush's middle class tax cuts for $250,000/year and less. He would love to get it too. It puts the Rs in a position of denying him the tax cuts because then their leverage for not taxing the uber-wealthy is gone.

If he doesn't get it, he will bludgeon the Rs to death with their refusal to pass that part of the tax legislation and get it off the table. This is a win-win proposition for Obama. Either he gets his tax cuts or he gets to portray the House Rs as standing in the way of tax cuts for 85% of the country.

The Rs will never be able to explain that they can't allow a middle class tax cut deal because that would decrease their leverage in keeping the cuts for the wealthy who own the Party.

He might get it. I doubt it.

Davids mom
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Let's hope

that tax reform/closing loop holes for those making $250,000+ will help towards an acceptable passage of SOMETHING before December 31. (and of course extending the Bush tax cuts for the rest of us!)

S. Lindsey
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DM please tell me what good it will do...

...without meaningful spending cuts and a restructuring of entitlements what good would closing some loopholes do?

DM you do understand that the Government spends somewhere North of a Trillion dollars per year MORE then it takes in?

So what would closing a "few" loopholes do? Face it Dm all it is just a feel good move to satisfy your class envy and promote class warfare.

Oh and btw---I thought the Bush Tax cuts were just for the Rich?

JeffC
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No problem SL

We'll take it from here.

S. Lindsey
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That's the problem Jeff you have for 4 years...

...took it and ran with it.

Unemployment-UP

Debt-UP

Deficit-UP

Workforce-DOWN

Foodstamps-UP

Disability-UP

Armed Conflicts-UP

Gas Prices-UP

Food Prices-UP

Energy Production-DOWN*

* (Federal Controlled Lands/Oceans)

Yep..Jeff you guys had it and still do. So as expected it will not change. Most likely get worse.

But I know...I know.. all this was Bush's fault.

Davids mom
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Jeff C

:-)

Davids mom
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SL

I understand. A balanced approach. It's interesting that you have figured out what class I belong to. There is an interesting discussion going on in the country. You appear to be stuck in your past incorrect analysis of much of what has gone on. Interesting.

PTC Observer
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JeffC - The problem

is that 51% is no mandate, we are back to where we were before the election with the population split on which way the country should head. The problems that we have now have been brought about by politicians buying votes with programs that we can't afford. It's democracy in action Jeff.

“A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.” - T. Jefferson.

Mr. Obama is a politician that doesn't care much about how things will turn out, he has what he wants, re-election. Now what? He'll run off to SE Asia for a victory lap. He's a different kind of president and pure socialist. Taxes are the sweet form of revenge, no matter the consequence, it is "leveling" the playing field. No one wants to mention that part of leveling the playing field is paying off his political supporters using government largess through debt.

The nation's political process is completely broken and there is no fixing it. I for one care nothing about the Republicans or Democrats, I just care about our freedom, which is lost. It would have been lost no matter who won the election.

Davids mom
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Renault
Quote:

on this i fell you and i may think the same. we should discuss my ideas for fixing that problem sometime.

Anytime! :[)

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