Census Bureau

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jevank
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I got a letter in the mail today from the US Census Bureau telling me that I will be getting more mail from them in about a week. I must have missed the one they sent me to tell me that this letter was coming.
What a truly disgusting waste of money.

Bonkers
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jevank: census

Well, the warning letter is kind of like getting a pound of paper from credit card companies every two weeks.
It is the way you sell things to idiots anymore!

Some don't want to be counted due to warrants for their arrest or something; some have illegal guns that have killed people; some have jobs but are on welfare; some are illegal and are afraid; some have no idea what it is used for. And don't care.

Some need to live in the Rocky Mountains---way up high.

Danzig
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While the EU moves forward on

While the EU moves forward on all these fronts, they can not progress achieved to date from the eye. The complete and correct application of existing laws is a priority. The European Commission is systematically monitored whether EU policies are implemented by Member States in full and on time in national blog article legislation and whether these national rules are properly enforced. Is not meeting its obligations, a Member State, the Commission may accuse him before the European Court of Justice. Particularly persistent offenders can be fined by the web meetings Court. Companies which fail to meet the specific requirements are not punished with sanctions, but may have to pay for the removal of any of them caused environmental damage.

Cyclist
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Hey CHR$

The above post seems to be right up your alley. Why don't you do one of your patented commentaries about it.

Courthouserules
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cyclist: Danzig?

I expect that you don't understand danzig any better than you do me.

I'll try to put into a few words and tell you what it said!
Danzig says that NATO runs on WEB, and will punish them what go off.
WEBs run the world now and agriculture people are fired for WEBBING incorrectly. VP Biden said it was a fnnnnnn big deal about the webbin and Gore said he invented it.

Courthouserules
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cyclist

Up my alleys, down my beacons of hope
Considerable fluxing and adding rope.
Those who think of change and glory,
Irritate those who never do worry.

inkslinger
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U S Census Letter

Here's an e-mail for the moron in charge who signed these letters. Write to Robert.M.Groves@census.gov - he's the Director. And the one who signed these letters and spent MILLIONS of federal tax dollars to do it.

Let him know how you felt when you opened it.

S. Lindsey
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Just received my census

filled out question #1 How many people live at this residence?
I answered and sent it back in..

Let the GAMES begin..

jevank
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SL against the mighty census

:)
I filled mine out entirely like a good little nazi. Keep us posted on your game though. Maybe i'll be ready to play in ten years.

S. Lindsey
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To all those who want to give me a knee jerk reaction..

Yep.. did the same thing 10 years ago.. so Race has nothing to do with it..

Jevank.. Oh I expect a visit from an Acorn like affiliate but they are in for a very rude surprise when they show up..

AtHomeGym
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Steve & Census

Yeah, I did mine too, but the only thing I didn't answer was the Date Of Birth--just my little personal defiance!. All the other stuff is easily captured just by going to the Social Security Administration data base. I didn't mind telling them that my spouse was my spouse and that she doesn't live or stay somewhere else during the year! Or what race we are (noted that "Negro" was a choice), or whether or not I owned my home with or without a mortgage. All in all, just another minor admin chore--just to stay legal.

S. Lindsey
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AHG.. understand completely

but then again DHS said I was an Extremist anyway so what can you expect..

I gave the Government exactly what is called for in the Constitution.. NOTHING MORE and Nothing less..

We all do what we can stand...

JeffC
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Bunk SL

The Constitution gives the Congress the right to make laws. There is nothing in it which limits questions on the census, just that the census will be taken every ten years. Since you gave what the Constitution called for, then I assume you answered all of the questions as mandated by Congress under the powers granted them by the Constitution.

I hope you got the long form and didn't answer the questions. I'm looking forward to your post about your encounter with the poor ACORN census enumerator who shows up at your house.

AtHomeGym
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Steve & DHS

There are probably more of us who fit Janet Nappy's profile of who is an extremist than one would expect! I don't mind wearing that hat considering the qualiifications required! But I do note that it's ok to profile certain vets as extremists but not ok to do the same to possible terrorists. It's just damn near impossible to escape the "political correctness" and "We just don't want to offend anyone" mantra and state of mind. Most surely encourages intestinal illness and regurgitation.

lion
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Lindsey and the U.S.Census

How childish.

Complete the U.S. Census form like a good citizen.

You are acting like a petulant child.

S. Lindsey
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Lion.. you hurt me so

Bite me..

You march in lockstep.. as for me I think not..

dawn69
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Census letter

My thoughts when I opened that letter were: "Wow, they must have spent millions ( or at the very least, hundreds of thousands) on a letter to let us know what we all already knew. Don't they know that there are "millions of people DYING IN THE STREETS"! Imagine how that money could have been put to better use. Don't you just LOVE the smell of hypocrisy in the morning...smells like politics!

Chris P. Bacon
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Fines for not answering the Census

Federal law clearly states that failure to answer any question on a Federal Census questionnaire can result in a fine up to $100. Answering any question falsely on a Federal Census bumps the fine up to $500.
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The ONLY questions that are "optional" are those pertaining to religion.
.
Of course, we all know that only a spineless coward and/or a person with something to hide would not want to answer a Federal Census.

meanoldconservatives
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S.L.

Have you burned any bacon lately? Do you remember how it smelled??? Nothing smells quite like crispy bacon. This particular crispy bacon smells different though. This crispy bacon smells like Basmati/Sniffles/Locke. What say you S.L.????

S. Lindsey
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Crispy and Jeff

Sniffle..Show me in the Constitution where the powers granted to Congress to "Enumerate" the people includes and is not limited to anything the Government wishes to know.. Show me where in the Constitution it says they have a RIGHT to know if my House is paid for or if I have flushable toilets.

I have read the many opinions for both sides, however have not found the Supreme court case verifying that the Whitehouse has such authority.

I chose not to participate past what in minimally required. PERIOD.

This administration decided to politicize it by removing it from the Commerce Dept to the Whitehouse and then was going to allow ACORN a known CORRUPT organization to participate in it..

I decided not to play.. My choice. I heard all the threats the last time.. They came to my house then as well.. They threatened everything from fines to imprisonment..

I was so scarnt that I impolitely advised the belligerent census worker how the best method to exit my property with the least amount of time wasted.

I expect to do the same again..but then again openly defying the Government is what all Cowards do..

Chris P. Bacon
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A Nation of Laws

S. Lindsey, I already linked to the relevant section in the United States Code. Whether you choose to admit it or not, America is a nation of laws, and these laws apply to everyone, even deluded "enumerated rights" folks who feel that if it's not in the Constitution, it's advisory in nature.
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I have an idea for you though: the next time you're feeling all enumerated-rightsy and sanctimonious, instead of picking on a defenseless minimum wage Census worker, why not instead show your disdain for unenumerated laws by driving down the left hand side of the road instead of the right? Heck, forget about the speed limit, too...."side of the road" and "speed limit" aren't found in the Constitution, right?
.
You'll be a hero to your kind.

S. Lindsey
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Slavery was a law at one time as well Sniffle

Many choose not to participate in that LAW as well.. Just because Congress wishes to expand Rules or change rules contrary to the Constitution does not enjoin me to participate.

Congress seems to think they can expand or ignore any rule/law those so chose.

But like I said it was MY choice.

The Wedge
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We are not a nation of laws

we are a nation of wants and desires. and I will use your examples. In accordance with the remnants of the 10th amendment, the body of laws governing speed limits lay in the various state codes. also the rules of the said highways and byways falls within state code. The federal department of transportation uses the threat of withholding of federal funds to gain leverage over the states. that is why things such as legal drinking ages and speed limits had a battle between the states and the feds. You are using lazy logic, there Sniff/Crispy

S. Lindsey
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Oh that's typical

of Sniffle's arguments. Talking points, barely scraping the surface of the most basic understanding of the topic.
Then call you a COWARD if you disagree and not recognize his is bigger.. (Brain- Cal)..

I find it amazing however that certain people find it necessary to re-invent themselves from time to time.. I think there's a medical term for it somewhere...

AtHomeGym
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Steve, the disease is called

I can't stand myself either!

AtHomeGym
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Minimum Wage & Census Workers

I wouldn't call $14 an hour minimum wage!

JeffC
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It's right there in the Constitution SL

Right next to the clauses that give the government the right to build interstate highways, control air flights, have a space program, license the broadcast spectrum, subsidize nuclear power plants, and a billion other things government does. The Constitution calls for the Congress to establish a Navy. Do you think the Air force is Unconstitutional?

"They threatened everything from fines to imprisonment." C'mon. The maximum fine is $100. Let's not pretend to be Nathan Hale by not answering the census.

S. Lindsey
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Jeff..

Show me the court case!!

Show me the arguments before the Supreme Court..

That is why the fine is only $100.00 Easier to just forget it or pay it then make a challenge.

Why is it that the fine in only $100 Jeff.. Think about it.. DO you really believe if they thought it could pass a Constitutional challenge that they would not have left in the "imprisonment" section and fines much higher..

No.. they know it would be a crap shoot.. Depends on the make up of the Court.. as long as there are 5 that agree the Constitution has standing then they will not force the issue..

Soon however Obama will have the chance to change that makeup and all of this will change. The full scale assault on the Constitution will begin..

Davids mom
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Facts about census
NUK_1
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Census and Court cases

Factcheck.org has a few listed in their article that DM just linked to. Seems pretty cut and dried that the Census has passed constitutional muster and doesn't violate the 4th Amendment or any fuzzy privacy rights that some try to read into the Constitution when in fact they don't exist and unfortunately never have. The SC ruled on this way back in 1870. Recent challenge turned aside in 2000 and the SC in 2002 refused to hear the appeal that the Census in some way violates the Constitution.

S. Lindsey
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White House Census Power Grab May Violate the Constitution

"Here's an argument that it's unconstitutional for the president to take over the Census from the secretary of commerce. It goes like this: Article I, Section 2 of the Constitution provides for an "actual enumeration" and a statute passed by Congress provides that the duties under this clause are to be performed by the secretary of commerce. Article I (as Joseph Biden didn't know in debate) is about the legislative, not the executive branch. Hence, it is argued, the president can't substitute a sampling for the enumeration required to be done by the secretary.

However, it is undoubtedly true that the president can fire the secretary of commerce for any reason, including failure to conduct the Census the way he wants the Census conducted. An acting secretary could conduct the Census the way the president wanted, even if the Senate refused to confirm a new secretary of commerce who would. And who would have standing to challenge the constitutionality of the Census taking? Perhaps the state that, under the statutory formula apportionment House seats among the states, got the 436th rather than the 435th seat, i.e., came close to getting another seat but didn't get it." Michael Barone US News

Without an actual Constitutional challenge one can only ASSUME it passes Constitutional muster.

With the Whitehouse seizing control of the Census they made this a political fight.. Obama and Team Pelosi has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they will use any tactic to push their Socialist Utopia agenda.

The Census is supposed to be a count not a political tool.

"U.S. census information provided by millions of Americans was used in a government study to profile airline passengers as terrorist risks.

The National Aeronautics and Space Administration also obtained for its study the private information of hundreds of thousands of passengers flying Northwest Airlines, an action NASA denied to The Washington Times in September" Washington Times

"WASHINGTON — The Census Bureau today reported that a file containing limited respondent information on 302 households, commingled with fictitious test records, was improperly posted on one of the agency’s externally accessible servers in violation of strict agency policies regarding the protection of respondent information. The file was immediately removed. No Social Security numbers were contained in the files and the Census Bureau has no evidence that any respondent data were misused."

"WASHINGTON - The Department of Commerce today announced information from its recent Department-wide reviews of missing, lost or stolen laptops and potential breaches of personal identity data. The Department continues its review and is not aware of any data being improperly accessed or used. The information gathered from the reviews indicates that the Census Bureau had the disproportionate share of missing equipment and data. The reviews were in response to broad, government-wide Congressional and public inquiries."

Davids mom
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Let's Just Look at the Facts Again

This may help some to determine the truth of Census taking

When Obama nominated Republican Sen. Judd Gregg of New Hampshire to be secretary of commerce in February, some groups complained that he was no friend of the Census Bureau, having resisted an increase in its funding in the 1990s. Those objections prompted assurances from the administration that senior White House aides would oversee the agency. But those assurances in turn triggered Republican cries that the White House was trying to politicize the census-taking process. Gregg withdrew as a nominee, citing the census as one of his concerns, though the administration had clarified that it didn’t intend to run the headcount out of the White House. It said it would simply work with the agency’s director, a practice for which there is ample precedent. In March, White House spokesman Ben LaBolt said:

The president wants to ensure that the census conducts a fair and accurate count. … The census director will report to the Commerce secretary. Like in every census under Democratic or Republican administrations there will be interest in Congress and at the White House in this national priority.

Davids mom
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More Facts regarding Middle Class
JeffC
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Show you what SL?

Challenge what? Force what issue? What is it exactly that you think is unconstitutional? Congress asking you a question?

You loved the Patriot Act which violates at least 5 articles of the Bill of Rights and flies in the face of Ben Franklin's quote that you use as a tag line. You support unconstitutional treatments of terrorism suspects.

Yet you want to mount a Constitutional challenge because the census asks if your house is paid for?

The Supremes ruled in 1999, Department of Commerce v. United States House, that sampling cannot be used for determining reapportionment. It later affirmed in Sanks v. Georgia, 401 U.S. 144, 145. P. 26, that the rest of the census questions, whatever they may be, could use sampling and the suit did not present a substantial federal question. The case was then dismissed.

jevank
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SL, I agree with JeffC

I don't argue the need for a count every ten years. Here is my problem: the cost...pure and simple. They are already reported to be over budget.

I can't believe, in this day and age, that there isn't an easier way to get a so-called accurate count. I, for one, have been counted in two states in one year. I understand there are homeless people or others who may not be counted, but I think just a count of the homes, the school registrations, and the homeless shelters should give us a just-as-accurate count as the census gets by counting everyone.

What do you think, JeffC? I would be very interested to know your point of view on this.

Also, SL, there is a blogger on here who works for the census. I would love it if he were the one at your door. That would be a real topic for discussion at the next coffee. :)

Davids mom
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The Census Form

Here it is - the shortest form in history! 10 simple questions! If you need help, enjoy!

This form informs you why the question is being asked and how it will be used.

S. Lindsey
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jevank the issue here is

not the questions per say but the politicizing of the process by the Whitehouse..

Why was the Census moved from control of the Commerce Dept?

jevank
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SL

First of all, my question had nothing to do with the answer Davids Mom wrote, so don't go by that as to what I am asking.

I am looking at the cost aspect of the census, and whether there is a better and cheaper way to get a count. I don't think that, after all the billions are spent, that we get a true enough count. I also think an educated guess would save those billions of dollars to be used elsewhere.

I think the census is being used more and more as a political tool. I just don't have a problem with the need for a count.

S. Lindsey
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Me either

A count is vital and necessary.. I just have an issue with the Government taking control..

S. Lindsey
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Jeff absolutely incorrect

But then again why bother..

S. Lindsey
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Jeff.. Glad you brought this up

I was going to ask you about the Patriot Act..

You have firmly been against it even though most have agreed it was Constitutional..

You may remember this:

"Fact Check: Obama's Consistent Position on the Patriot Act January 05, 2008. Rhetoric: "Sen. Obama Promised to Support Repealing PATRIOT Act, Then Voted to Extend It"Factcheck.org

Now what would you do if the Patriot Act required your participation?

Would you have complied?

"It is the Republicans helping terrorists

Submitted by JeffC on Wed, 10/04/2006 - 12:29pm."

"You mentioned the Patriot Act which allows Americans to be jailed without being charged or to confront witnesses against them. US Constitution (Amendment 4): “... to be confronted with the witnesses against him ...”

The Patriot Act allows the government to search someone’s home without probable cause. US Constitution (Amendment 5): “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

The Patriot Act allows the government to hold Americans indefinitely without bringing them to trial. US Constitution (Amendment 4): “In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial…”

The Patriot Act allows the government to monitor conversations between lawyers and clients in federal prisons and can deny attorneys to certain prisoners. US Constitution (Amendment 4): “…and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.”

The Patriot Act allows the government to prosecute librarians and other record keepers if they tell anyone of the government seizing certain papers and records. US Constitution (Amendment 1): “Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech ...”

Now don't get me wrong I am not necessarily comparing the two.. but would you have protested in some small way?

JeffC
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No SL

I would have voted against it then gotten beaten in the next election.

As to protesting it, not much. I wrote a letter to the NYT which they did not publish and blogged on the WP and New Republic (inciting the responses you can imagine).

I assumed the USSC would overturn the provisions one by one but I haven't tracked them in depth. The cases I've heard about seem like the Court more or less joined with others to surrender essential liberties, for a little temporary safety.

S. Lindsey
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My point here Jeff is

one of hypocrisy. You see you guys were all over Bush for everything from the deficit to Gitmo, to the War to WMDs to Katrina.. You guys seem to forget Democrats were involved in ALL of it...

But it seems now all I hear is silence.. Obama and Team Pelosi is doing EXACTLY the same things Bush was CRUCIFIED for and I can hear crickets from your side.

I disagree with this Administration making this census political and chose to make a stand at least in a small way..

You know if Bush had of did the same thing you guys would be running any car off the road that still had a "W" on the back windshield...

JeffC
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Sorry SL

Establishing Gitmo for the purpose of torturing prisoners and manipulating intelligence about WMDs to justify a war Bush and Company wanted is in no way comparable to anything Pelosi and Obama have accomplished with the pending passage of the Health Care bill.

S. Lindsey
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Jeff.. Jeff.. Jeff

Talking points kinda morning huh?

How many times did Clinton and the rest of the crew talk about WMDs and Saddam?

How many Jeff? Do you want me to pull the News reports? Do you really want me to pull the youtube videos?

Hundreds of times.. Jeff. You can re-write history if you want but that pesky thing that Al Gore invented called the internet will not allow you to do so without challenge anymore..

If Gitmo and rendition is so wrong then why has Obama allowed it to go on.. Military Tribunals are going forward.. Everything that Bush started and Obama said he was against are still motoring right along..

Campaigns are one thing actual Governance is another..

NUK_1
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Obama changed his tune once in power

Which is ironically exactly what a bunch of Repubs also did and what has lead eventually to enough Dems being elected to pass the HC "reform."

Obama was all about hatin' Gitmo and the seriously-flawed Patriot Act and even spoke about getting rid of the Hyde Amendment. Yet, once in office and in power, his goal became the usual: accumulate more power and more control, even if it infuriates the far left and hysterical groups like NOW, and, of course, the opposition party. Giving up Gitmo or taking out some of the ridiculous and scary crap that is within the Patriot Act means less power. Absolving the telecommunications industry from reprisals for being complete liars and breaking their agreements just means more power to the Prez, something that Obama didn't hesitate to do right after getting into office.

Bonkers
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Why is Jeff's stuff

going here?

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