Libya and Lies

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Joe Kawfi
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Libya and Lies - by Thomas Sowell

Remember his claims that previous administrations had arrogantly interfered in the internal affairs of other nations -- and then his demands that Israel stop building settlements and give away land outside its 1967 borders, as a precondition to peace talks with the Palestinians, on whom there were no preconditions? (This was after his apology tour where he stated "“While the United States has done much to promote peace and prosperity in the hemisphere, we have at times been disengaged, and at times we sought to dictate our terms.”

As for what happened in Libya, the Obama administration says that there is an "investigation" under way. An "on-going investigation" sounds so much better than "stonewalling" to get past election day. But you can bet the rent money that this "investigation" will not be completed before election day. And whatever the investigation says after the election will be irrelevant.

The full story of what happened in Libya, down to the last detail, may never be known. But, as someone once said, you don't need to eat a whole egg to know that it is rotten. And you don't need to know every detail of the events before, during and after the attacks to know that the story put out by the Obama administration was a fraud.

S. Lindsey
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Obama LIED and our Ambassador DIED.

New Emails have surfaced revealing that within 2 HOURS of the beginning of the attack the Whitehouse KNEW it was a TERRORIST attack. Also it has been revealed that we had a drone on-site within the first HOUR of the 7 hour long attack and was watching the attack IN REAL TIME.

The President's response to watching our people getting killed in real time..

HE WENT TO BED.

"On Tuesday, Reuters reported that emails obtained from anonymous government sources show that the State Department and the White House knew within two hours that an Islamist militant group had taken credit for the September 11 attack on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi.

According to Reuters, the emails "specifically mention that the Libyan group called Ansar al-Sharia had asserted responsibility for the attacks." Greta van Susteren wrote that the State Department said the group is affiliated with al Qaeda."

http://www.examiner.com/article/emails-reveal-white-house-knew-terror-gr...

US Arming Al-Qaeda...

"Obama Arming Al Qaeda Terrorist Groups in Syria"

'Most of the arms shipped at the behest of Saudi Arabia and Qatar to supply Syrian rebel groups fighting the government of Bashar al-Assad are going to hard-line Islamic jihadists, and not the more secular opposition groups that the West wants to bolster, according to American officials and Middle Eastern diplomats. That conclusion, of which President Obama and other senior officials are aware from classified assessments of the Syrian conflict…" http://frontpagemag.com/2012/dgreenfield/obama-arming-al-qaeda-terrorist...

This is worse then the Iran-Contra and Watergate combined.

The Obama Administration has worked to cover this up and mislead the American people by blaming this on a video when in fact this was a Arms deal gone bad. Ambassador Stevens was meeting with the Prime Minister of Turkey had dinner with him and 1 hour after he left the CIA safe house was attacked.

"Stevens was tasked with helping to coordinate U.S. assistance to the rebels, whose top military commander, Abdelhakim Belhadj, was the leader of the Al Qaeda affiliate, the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG). That means that Stevens was authorized by the U.S. Department of State and the Obama administration to aid and abet individuals and groups that were, at a minimum, allied ideologically with Al Qaeda, the jihadist terrorist organization that attacked the homeland on the first 9/11, the one that’s not supposed to exist anymore after the killing of its leader, Osama bin Laden, on May 2, 2011." CIA Officer Lopez

This whole thing was a dirty Arms deal gone bad and the cover up is now obvious.

AtHomeGym
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SL & Benghazi

I smell a sell-out here and a whole ton of unanswered questions. For example, wonder why the Turk picked 9/ll to meet? Who else knew the Ambassador would even BE in Benghazi? I'd say the Turk has some questions to answer. On reporting, ever heard of the "Critic Program"--it's a Serious Incident report that is designed to hit the President's desk in 10 minutes---how does it do that? Every Commo Cen has pre-cut tapes ready to put on line after addition of simple text with pertinent info and the transmission precedence "FLASH" will open all the relays between the originating station & the White House. And just WHO selected Benghazi "Mission House" (it was NOT a Consulate) as the designated place for the Ambassador & the Turk? What I noted was the Critic Program when I was working--I'm sure that comms have improved since then and will work even better now. I think someone's "Dirty" here--just too much coincidence.

S. Lindsey
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AHG...Correct this is a scandal beyond comprehension

Ambassador Steven's usefulness was at an end, either that or he found out the Munitions and Arms we gave to the Muslim Brotherhood ended up with Al Qaeda and had to be killed to cover it up.

The US specifically this Administration was providing Weapons to our enemies and the Media is silent on this.

1.The Administration knew this was a terrorist attack within 2 HOURS...but yet lied about it for weeks.

2. They had a Drone overhead watching in real time..Where did the drone come from and why was it there ready to watch the attack?

3. We had a Fast Action Team 30 minutes away and Panetta overrode the commanders and would not let them deploy. Why where they there and who pre-deployed them?

4. We also now know that Panetta and Obama where meeting while the attack was on-going...sort of blows that whole we didn't know what was going on argument.

5. 55 minutes after Panetta arrives to meet with Obama.. the Situation Room and everybody else gets an email saying, ‘Libya, the safe house is under attack.” Why did Panetta show up to meet with Obama? We also know it was an unscheduled event so what was the emergency? It appears they knew an attack was imminent.

The attack lasted 7-8 hours the email detailed shoulder fired weapons and rockets/mortars why then did the Administration try to claim this was over a You Tube Video for two weeks when THEY KNEW there was no demonstration prior to the attack.

Additional info is pouring out...rats leaving the ship and all that.. we may never know what exactly happened, what the Administration knew or why were we supplying weapons to our enemies unless we change administration. If Obama get's reelected this will be relegated to the trash heap of history.

Davids mom
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Never know?
Quote:

Additional info is pouring out...rats leaving the ship and all that.. we may never know what exactly happened, what the Administration knew or why were we supplying weapons to our enemies unless we change administration. If Obama get's reelected this will be relegated to the trash heap of history.

Oh, I don't know, we did find out about the lies of the WMD's's in Iraq. . . Even with the Republican administration in charge.

S. Lindsey
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Yes Dm.. We did find out about all those lies

..you just keep telling them don't you.

I suppose if you can't justify this the old "let's point at Bush" will work... You forget just how many DEMOCRATS said the WMDS were real so looks like a LOT of people lied in fact the Whole World did..since every Intelligence agency in the free World said the same thing..

Want to tell another one DM?

Davids mom
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Nice spin SL

Here are the certified facts-years later.

Care to dispute this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction

Quote:

During the lead-up to war in March 2003, United Nations weapons inspector Hans Blix had found no stockpiles of WMD and had made significant progress toward resolving open issues of disarmament noting "proactive" but not always the "immediate" Iraqi cooperation as called for by UN Security Council Resolution 1441. He concluded that it would take “but months” to resolve the key remaining disarmament tasks.[4] The United States asserted this was a breach of Resolution 1441 but failed to convince the UN Security Council to pass a new resolution authorizing the use of force due to lack of evidence.[5][6][7] Despite being unable to get a new resolution authorizing force and citing section 3 of the Joint Resolution passed by the U.S. Congress,[8] President George W. Bush asserted peaceful measures could not disarm Iraq of the weapons he alleged it to have and launched a second Gulf War,[9] despite multiple dissenting opinions[10] and questions of integrity[11][12][13] about the underlying intelligence.[14] Later U.S.-led inspections agreed that Iraq had earlier abandoned its WMD programs, but asserted Iraq had an intention to pursue those programs if UN sanctions were ever lifted.[15] Bush later said that the biggest regret of his presidency was "the intelligence failure" in Iraq,[16] while the Senate Intelligence Committee found in 2008 that his administration "misrepresented the intelligence and the threat from Iraq".[17] A key CIA informant in Iraq admitted that he lied about his allegations, "then watched in shock as it was used to justify the war".[18] In 2012, Britain will help the Iraqi government dispose of what is left of Saddam's chemical weapons. The teams will work to safely destroy remnants of munitions and chemical warfare agents left over from Saddam's regime.[19]

S. Lindsey
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Uh.. how does that say that Democrats did not know Dm

There were dozens that stated Iraq had WMDs..including the Clinton's..Do you deny this?

..and why are you trying to change the subject?

Davids mom
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I have

An aversion to being called a liar by a spinner.

S. Lindsey
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DM when you attempt to obfuscate...

...an issue at best you are dishonest.

Where in any of this thread is there a mention of Bush and WMD's?

Not until YOU brought it up in a weak attempt to change the subject or throw "mud" (well he did something too)did this even get mentioned. You did this in an obvious attempt to obfuscate the issue at hand.

If you can't blame Bush then what do you have..?

DM I asked you once and I will ask you again.. Did Democrats say that Iraq had WMDs?

You can call me a "spinner" but at least I can back up my claims you however just have rhetoric...

btw- Is Sarin a WMD ...DM?

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/intro/cw-nerve.htm

You might want to check your facts.. Look up Kurds killed by Sarin and then answer did Gaddafi have WMDs?

Words have meaning DM... Now do you want to be more specific?

http://www.voanews.com/content/iraqs-kurds-mark-anniversary-of-poison-ga...

Let's see what other say about Iraq's WMD program...

http://www.iraqwatch.org/profiles/chemical.html

Quallacherokee
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For THE RECORD DM and SL

“In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security.” — Hillary Clinton, October 10, 2002

“There’s no question that Saddam Hussein is a threat… Yes, he has chemical and biological weapons. He’s had those for a long time. But the United States right now is on a very much different defensive posture than we were before September 11th of 2001… He is, as far as we know, actively pursuing nuclear capabilities, though he doesn’t have nuclear warheads yet. If he were to acquire nuclear weapons, I think our friends in the region would face greatly increased risks as would we.” — Wesley Clark on September 26, 2002

“Iraq does pose a serious threat to the stability of the Persian Gulf and we should organize an international coalition to eliminate his access to weapons of mass destruction. Iraq’s search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to completely deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power.” — Al Gore, 2002

DM< I have HUNDREDS of quotes from Democrats stating Saddam in 2002 HAD wmd's would you like them ALL posted?

Davids mom
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Q

The 'spin ' was not if democrats knew or agreed, the original post was if we would not know the truth of the Benghazi situation if Democrats remained in power. To the Republicans credit, we knew that at the time we attacked Iraq, they were not in possession of WMD's. Post away . Thanks.

See my post Never Know?

Quallacherokee
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DM

Yes I've kept up with this thread. Not surprising, I do NOT believe we would know the truth about Benghazi had it not been for the Republicans,CBS and FOX news outlets, you're surely not going to suggest Obama would have come out and said "ooops my bad"

He and his administration have blocked every opportunity to find the truth behind Fast & Furious, up to the point of engaging in "Executive Privilege"
on a matter that is NOT a Nation Security issue like an Assassinated Ambassador is.

ALL other things aside, This LIE from the White House and it's COMPLETE and UTTER failure to plan for security ON 9/11 in the mid east, is unforgivable and to an Honest Person would cause pause in choosing the White House and it's main resident to continue as America's Commander in Chief, I'm not suggesting that democrats vote for Romney, as I understand their dislike of his ideas, but to VOTE FOR the Liar in chief at this point is putting politics ABOVE America. If I were a Democrat, at this point I can honestly tell you, I would leave the "President" box Blank or write in someone.
Standing WITH a liar, by proxy; makes one a liar

Davids mom
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Q

Thanks for your opinion. I stand with the president - and do not consider myself a liar. You and SL can stand by your opinions - opposing opinions do not necessarily mean they are based on lies. Was Colin Powell a liar because he believed the intelligence he was given? I will not call you and SL liars. You are entitled to your opinions.

Was our countries inability to plan for and prevent the attack on the US in New York and the Pentagon unforgivable ? Many mothers of soldiers who didn't come home from Iraq and many families who lost loved ones on American soil may think so.
Democrats and Republicans both suffered.

Quallacherokee
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DM

DM , would you not call those that stood with Nixon AFTER the truth was told, Foolish, and Liars as he and those that stood with him continued to deny the FACTS?

Are YOU a liar? No way would I believe that, but in standing with a LIAR does it cause me to ponder at where your loyalties to a politician end.

As to the WTC and 9/11/01, yes it looks like that too could have been prevented had Clinton taken action as early as 1996 when Sudan offered him OBL on a silver platter, but that is a whole nuther matter, (even though he DID get impeached for his lies) The idea that you can compare the WTC/pentagon with Benghazi as being on the same "threat" level is just absurd,
Ya see prior to 9/11/01, 9/11 was just another date, but since 2001 9/11 holds a little different meaning to some folks, ya know kinda like Dec 7 does AFTER 1941
DM I may not be the brightest computer user on the planet but I CAN recognize an attempt to dodge THE issue.

Which is people who continue to support a KNOWN liar, ya know like folks did AFTER Bill was impeached, and those same folks are doing it again with Obama, I'm starting to believe Lying to democrats is not only expected it's considered in good taste, and welcomed without any consequences.

(note to self reason number 1 NEVER to believe ANYTHING that passes the lips of a democrat)

Davids mom
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Q
Quote:

(note to self reason number 1 NEVER to believe ANYTHING that passes the lips of a democrat)

Really ! You're entitled to your opinion. Never is a long, long time. I think I understand . Everyone is 'right' but Democrats - no matter the issue. Interesting. No need to discuss. I certainly don't agree with that! I am not dodging an issue. I do not agree with the premise that all Democrats ( their positions) are wrong. Your note to self has clarified your position. I do not consider Obama, Bush, Clinton, or Powell liars. Now I have a different slant on Nixon, and I'm glad that Californians voted against him for governor.

Quallacherokee
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DM

You don't consider

"I did not have sex with that woman"
"read my lips no new taxes"
"the attack was protesters getting out of control"
LIES?

DM, Where were you when I needed to sale my 1977 Fiat Spyder??, oh wait
Hey I have a very reliable and highly sought out by collectors Ford Edsel for Sale, little old lady from Palmetto only drove it to Church on Sundays,, and yes the Saw Dust in the Axle was an expensive Option back then
: )

oh and yes NEVER is a long time in fact it's a lifetime, and NO
I don't ever plan on believing ANYTHING a Politician say's especially
"successful" ones

S. Lindsey
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DM...Q is quiet correct.

That was my point.. DM you have an ideology.. That's OK.. we all do.

However if that ideology is PROVED to be false or harmful what do you call those that refuse to believe it so..?

Zealot and Extremist are just two that come to mind.

Now on the WMD misdirection you brought up.. The basic overall attempt you were trying to perform was to misdirect the conversation to try to lay blame for misdeeds "others" have done as to make Obama look better.

DM people made excuses for Hitler, Po Pott, Stalin et.al. as well.

These people failed to see who it was they were supporting. They refused to see the evils and wrongs because of their ideology too.

On the WMDs history has proven Saddam had them, after all he killed thousands of Kurds, with them and many people including DEMOCRATS said he had the potential for Nukes as well.

You see DM you become blind when you allow your ideology to see only that you wish to see.

But then I think you know that. This is why you brought up WMDs when the conversation TODAY is about Libya and the failing of the Whitehouse to protect US Citizens and then lying about it.

You see DM that is today's issue we fought that last war back in '04. It's 2012 and we have a whole new set of problems and you are part of it.

MYTMITE
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There is an idiom I have heard my whole adult life---

"There are none so blind as those who will not see." Thanks goodness I follow no one blindly. I have been accused by my Republican friends of being Democrat and accused by my Democrat friends of being Republican--in reality I am an American. I have never been swayed by a smooth talker--always makes me very careful and watchful. At different times I have liked Democrats and what they stood for and likewise liked Republicans and what they stood for. Sadly to say, I can find nothing about our present commander-in-chief to make me want him in office for four more years. I think he has proved that he is not up to the job. I think his ego is the biggest thing about him. He has overstepped the boundaries several times and I cannot believe he has not been brought up short. On the other hand, there are things about Romney that I am not particulary in favor of---but all things considered I have to say that he is my preferred choice in this election. Obama keeps harping on the fact that Romney is rich--since when has that been a sin in this country?---and Obama isn't heading to the poor house any time soon. I have not seen anything that Obama has accomplished that would make me think differently though to hear him, he captured the bad guys all by himself. I have watched him time after time and I see no sincerity there. "I" is the major word in his vocabulary, the only one he can use without that teleprompter. His smirky, snarky personality came out during the debates and it just seems to grow and grow. Or, rather, I think it has been there all along and he has hidden it pretty well--now it is out there for all to see. Presidential---I think not.

Robert W. Morgan
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You know MYTMITE, there is another way of looking at this

Specifically the character of both our current President and his challenger. And others.

In 1776 the population of the United States was about 2 1/2 million and we had leaders emerge from the 2 1/2 million like George Washington, James Madison, Thomas Jefferson, Alexander Hamilton, John Adams, Sam Adams, Ben Franklin, John Hancock, Nathan Hale and many more.

Now the population of the United States is more than 100 times larger - over 300 million people and the best we can do is Biden, Obama and Romney? I'm giving Ryan a pass because he could in fact emerge as a present-day Alexander Hamilton. Even if we cast a wider net and look at John Edwards and John Kerry and Sarah Palin and John McCain and Al Gore and Bob Dole and on and on and on - what is wrong with us? I realize our best and brightest prefer the private sector and the money that comes with it. And the gotcha stuff from the media is rather unpleasant, but 300 million people and this is what we got?

MYTMITE
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Sad isn't it. I have said many times that it is a sad

commentary when the pool to draw from is so shallow. Some of this we can blame on ourselves and the media. If you are a worthy candidate and you choose to run for office if your opponent doesn't pick your bones the press will. God forbid that you have ever seen a psychiatrist or psychologist, ever had a quarrel with a family member or your spouse, had a distant third cousin once removed on your great-grandfather's side who ran a moonshine still many moons ago. And what person in their right mind (unless they have overblown egos) wants to put their children through the scrutiny they go through? After the "Monkey Business" expose' it was open season and monkey business has been the order of the day. You have to wonder how many prospective excellent candidates backed away because they did not want the constant exposure. As for the money, other than Harry S. Truman, I cannot remember one president who did not end up wealthier than he had been before serving. If you can stand the heat, serve your four or more years and go out on the economy you can do very well for youself--speaking engagements, books, etc. but you will need a thick skin.

PTC Observer
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RWM - Leadership

Yes, you are correct about 1776 and the leaders that emerged to address the colonies grievances.

It was virtue that drove their actions and compelled them to revolt against an oppressive monarchy.

It is the absence of virtue that is our problem today. Sadly our political system is so broken and gerrymandered most men that lack virtue rise to the very top.

"Bad men cannot make good citizens. It is when a people forget God that tyrants forge their chains. A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, is incompatible with freedom. No free government, or the blessings of liberty, can be preserved to any people but by a firm adherence to justice, moderation, temperance, frugality, and virtue; and by a frequent recurrence to fundamental principles."

Patrick Henry

Robert W. Morgan
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True enough, O. More evidence the end is near

Now that we have had 200 plus years of this experiment in liberty, the end may be close at hand. Pretty high percentages of people voting themselves a paycheck and not paying into the system at all - hint, hint, these are not the millionaires and billionaires that Obama keeps talking about. Romney's 47% comment was correct and he needs to expand on that. Of course that would just annoy the 47% who see him as the end of their free ride.

All these people running around buying gold and guns and stockpiling ammunition and food may be onto something. I used to laugh at them for being alarmists, but now I can see merit in their actions - no matter which one of these guys gets elected.

PTC Observer
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RWM - I don't

know how near the end is, but it is inevitable. Democracies have never worked and never will.

We are in a decaying orbit for some of the reasons you outline in your post but mostly because we have forgotten our history and the lessons of it forgotten.

Stock piling ammunition and food will not save us, it will only prolong a miserable existence. The bounty that was ours is squandered. Our only hope is that reason will ultimately prevail but reason is in short supply. We should remember that the American experience was unique in history and it is not likely to be repeated anytime soon. It is the scoundrels that are in control of our future.

God save us all and the United States of America.

Robert W. Morgan
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Ammo and food will save me and my family, O

No, it won't save the country but that is so far gone that I don't now what else I could do. So then, I will save myself and my family from whoever it is that tries to take my life or my stuff - which in my case will be a lot of food and water Maybe some good Scotch. Certainly lots of ammo. Anybody have any of those Claymore mines left? I could use 30 or more. Only have 2 routes they could take to get into my house and Claymore's would be a great early warning device. I can finish it off from there.

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*

*

Davids mom
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Mytimite

Thanks for sharing your opinion. Those who follow Obama are not blind. Those who follow Romney are not blind. We all have our reasons for our selection. That's the American way. No minds are going to be changed at this point. I for one will be glad when the 'politics' is over - and we continue with moving forward . :-)

Quallacherokee
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DM Choice Made...

DM, I agree minds are and were made up on this Choice DECADES ago, Obama/Romney, done deal,, My question to you an Obama Supporter is this...

What exactly is there about the US Constitution YOU dislike? (as written with ALL 27 Amendments) ?????

Oh and I ASK the SAME EXACT question to Romney Supporters ,, as HE doesn't support the US Constitution ,,as Written

So basically my question is,,, Which Constitutional, Creator Given, FREEDOM do you NOT want me to have???

Davids mom
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Q
Quote:

So basically my question is,,, Which Constitutional, Creator Given, FREEDOM do you NOT want me to have?p?
What exactly is there about the US Constitution YOU dislike? (as written with ALL 27 Amendments) ?????

Nothing. I especially like the flexibility within the written word of our Constitution that has sanctioned the allowance of women and minorities the right to vote (without the advent of another Civil War). The original document did not address some inequalities practiced in the home of the free and the brave. (Unless one was free, white, male, and 21). As I observe the difficulties in other countries who are striving for equal opportunities for all of their citizens, I am most grateful for our Constitution!

Quote:

So basically my question is,,, Which Constitutional, Creator Given, FREEDOM do you NOT want me to have?p?

I feel from your words, that you feel you have been/ are being denied something. Freedom to worship as you choose? Don't you have that? Freedom to observe your family and cultural traditions as you choose? Freedom to have the opportunity to receive an education? Freedom to have power over your own body? Freedom to live anywhere where your income can support? Freedom to travel anywhere in a manner that you can afford without restrictions other than for safety and security reasons? Freedom and opportunity to vote for what you believe in. Freedom to decide who would be your life partner, These are just some of the freedoms that I hold dear, and would not want to deny them to any other citizen for any reason. I don't understand why you would think I would want to deny you a 'freedom' in our country.

Quallacherokee
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DM Freedom

Let's explore you theory. First there were BLACK male VOTERS pre civil war, as there were also RED male voters, and guess what, if a FEMALE of any race OWNED land she could vote as well, ya see that was the qualifier, LANDOWNER over the age of 21.next
I don't feel, I've been denied Constitutional Protection I KNOW I have been denied Constitutional Protection (as have you and the other 300 Million Americans)
The right of the people to keep and bear arms, Shall Not Be Infringed.
ooops, it's infringed on all over the place
Religion? Well I hope you don't want to Practice Christianity. Ya see in the Book of Mark, Chapter 16 verses 15 - 18 Christians are told they can show their faith by handling deadly snakes and drinking poison without any ill effects, ,,well no ill effects as one doesn't live in the US as snake handling for religious purposes is Illegal
Freedom to have family and or cultural activities, really YOU of all people are going to try and sell me this swill? The Ghost Dance is Illegal as are several African Assention rites
Travel? lol only IF one complies with PAGES and PAGES of law

I don't see Obama (or any other politician) restoring these FREEDOMS
I don't see folks as yourself DEMANDING the restoration of these FREEDOMS so I have to conclude these are FREEDOMS you don't support so again I ask, which Constitutional Amendments can we keep?

Davids mom
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Q

Slavery and Pre-Civil War are not on my mind at this time. (That’s documented history– I’m speaking of the present.) When you were born, I and the majority of the members of my family could not vote in Georgia and other states in the Union unless they could count (quickly) the number of beans in a jar; write a comprehensive essay/answer questions using grammatically correct English and discernible handwriting – and not be fearful of physical or economic harm if they attempted to vote.
I am not cognizant of how the Red Man was treated (except what I have learned in history books). There were blacks who owned land – but many left the south after Reconstruction. There were Christians, and other good people of different religions/non –religious – who protected that ownership – so that generations could benefit from land ownership. There were more who took the land. This is recorded history – right here in Fayette County.
My family has owned guns for generations. We have learned to use the Constitution and the law to eventually have the same rights and opportunities as other American citizens. (1776-1964) I support training and/or testing in order to receive a license to have a weapon.

All Christians do not believe in ‘’snake handling’ as a pre-requisite to following the precepts of the Christ or the 10 Commandments. There is an African tradition among some tribes that involves the cutting of the female clitoris. I’m glad that is illegal in the United States. I do know that there are very few African Americans who practice African tribal rites that would be considered illegal in our country. I support any law that is against a human injuring or killing another human in a religious ceremony.
I would love to learn more about those ‘freedoms’ that our Constitution is denying American citizens. Thanks. My family has a long history of using the law to gain equal rights and opportunities for all. Would love to share some of the successful legal strategies. No group of Americans should feel they are denied rights and freedoms today. (However, remember – an individuals ‘right’ cannot be one that precludes the right or opportunity of another citizen.) A black’ family cannot block the purchase of a home by a ‘white’ family because they don’t want to live next door to a 'white' family. That's the way it is in America.

Citizen_Steve
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I'm not blind

I saw Obama's TV commercial about how Romney is going to stop women from using contraception and that convinced me. I don't want my girlfriend to get pregnant. That's the reason for my vote. I can't afford a baby - I don't have a job. How could anyone vote for Romney, I just don't understand it.

MYTMITE
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Citizen_Steve, I do hope your tongue was firmly planted in your

cheek when you wrote your "I'm not blind" blog, otherwise your head must be firmly planted in your posterior region. Last time I checked no one including Obama or Romney was in my bedroom or bathroom to see what I took or did not take, used or did not use. On the other hand, if you are not interested in becoming a father when you cannot afford it (which, by the way, is certainly commendable these days) one sure fire method is to keep that rocket in your pocket, then there are these things called condoms if you just must do the deed and then there is that surefire method, vasectomy. I know it is a novel concept but it is about time men took the initiative in birth control.
Want to talk about inequality? The first inequality was when women were given reproductive organs and men were not. Give me the candidate that can assure me that men will bear children and take at least partial burden from women and he/she will have my vote.

HerkFE
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Iraqi WMDs

I'll go out on a limb here and say that the Iraq WMD story hasn't reached its final chapter. With the stuff going on in Syria right now, I suspect we will get to hear "the rest of the story" on Iraqi WMDs sometime in the not so distant future.

Quallacherokee
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HerkFE

dead on 100% agreed , I always thought it "funny" that the media including Fox never bothered to mention the Rail Road between Baghdad and Damascus, which the UN inspectors never bothered to "inspect"
And just a few weeks ago, the World got very concerned about Syria's movement of WMD's which some called a "Massive" supply,,,hummmmm

AtHomeGym
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Herc FE & Iraqi WMDs

Those Kurds who got gassed were not available to be interviewed!

Davids mom
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Syria/ WMD's
Citizen_Steve
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As I recall, the

As I recall, the justification for war was the fact that Hussein "repeatedly violated sixteen United Nations Security Council Resolutions (UNSCRs) designed to ensure that Iraq does not pose a threat to international peace and security".

S. Lindsey
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Citizen you are correct.. DM like others...

...bought into the I voted for it before I voted against it syndrome.

The Dogs of War were howling from both sides. The Tree of Liberty needed it's fill. They forget that now. It's easy to be above it all, all morally superior once the smoke has settled.. Everyone forgets their own bloodthirstiness after it is over.

The WMD excuse was actually cooked up by Hillary, Pelosi and a few others the first "accredited" accounts come from them. They pointed back to a Bush speech way before initial action where he mentioned Nukes and immedialtely they latched onto it.

DM and others like her are easily led, knowing those like her will stick to her "trusted" ideologically pure sites to spread the word.

Georgia Patriot
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Sell Out or Scarifice?

The Obama administration has a lot to answer, read this and see what you think: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/10/26/cia-operators-were-denied-req...

Biden and Hillary blaming the intelligence community will turn out to be the stupidest thing this administration ever did, now the truth will come out! -GP

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The October surprise that just keeps on giving

While nothing should ever take away from the sacrifice of these 4 brave Americans, it proves once again that the coverup is worse than the crime. The political overtones within all parts of the Obama administration are cumbersome, inefficient and sometimes funny, But not so here. Assets in place and those in charge are afraid to make a move. What a disgrace! And then to assume that a poorly organized coverup is going to carry the day?

Presbo is going to have to get all Presidential to pull this one out of the fire. And he'll have to do it by throwing someone under the bus very soon. Hillary? Panetta? Petreas? I honestly don't think he can pull that off without looking like an insincere political hack.
Of course if he figures out a way to blame it Biden, fire him and replace him with Ms. Clinton, he might actually win the election. But that would lessen his stature as Commander-in-Chief and make him look like an opportunistic, self-centered, politician and he wouldn't want to do that.

To make it worse the early voting thing may have given some votes to Obama that the voter may now want back.

Georgia Patriot
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Hillary Has Documents!

Just like Monica had the blue dress, Hillary has exonerating evidence: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/ed-klein-bill-clinton-urging-hillary-to-... GP

AtHomeGym
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GP, Documents & the Diplomatic Corps

Hang-em High Hilary! And don't you think many mbrs of the Dip Corps are having second thoughts about overseas stations? Close to retirement? Only question is how quick can I unass this untrustworthy employer!

Cyclist
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October Surprise

Finding out that voting for Obama is like having sex for the first time. (eyes rolling)

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2012/10/voting_for_obama_is_like_fir...

AtHomeGym
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Cy & October Surprise

Yeah, Boortz was all over that today--so was Hannity.

Cyclist
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Gym,

Campaigning in the US has just hit a new low. What will they think of next?

AtHomeGym
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Cy & campaigning

Simply childish and designed to appeal to the ignorant, simplistic mind.

Cyclist
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Team Obama Trolls for Virgin Votes

What others are saying:

I have just one message for the President: "Keep away from my daughter, you Creep!"

Still another confirmation that Democratic women vote with their "lady parts" and Republican women vote with their "lady smarts".

Davids mom
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Cy
Quote:

Still another confirmation that Democratic women vote with their "lady parts" and Republican women vote with their "lady smarts".

Palin? Lady smarts? The eye of the beholder. Her promoters did't ignore her 'parts'. Hmmmm. There are many, many intelligent, attractive Republican women in leadership positions. Palin was not one of them. But thanks, I think your guys are in need of the women's vote, with this attitude/comment, not many will change their minds. The gap is not as wide, but we'll know who got the female vote on the 6th.

meanoldconservatives
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Women changing their minds

"But thanks, I think your guys are in need of the women's vote, with this attitude/comment, not many will change their minds."

This is obviously assuming that women are somehow devoid of the ability to reason and make choices based on actual circumstances in our country and who best to lead going forward. I personally give women more credit than that. If anyone, male or female, is so intellectually bankrupt that their vote is influenced or changed based on a comment on a blog/website, then natural selection will eventually eliminate that vote.

meanoldconservatives
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Cy

Actually, doing either one can produce bad results.....

Cyclist
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MOC

Me thinks a certain campaign is getting desperate.

meanoldconservatives
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Acting "Presidential"

According to the Rolling Stone magazine folks, following a 45 minute interview not yet published, this sitting "President" called Mitt Romney a bullsh-ter. One of the editors mentioned his 6-year old supports Obama and this was his comment: "You know, kids have good instincts. They look at the other guy and say, "Well, that's a bullsh-ter, I can tell.""

This clown has the audacity to call someone else a bullsh-ter? And by the way, how many 6-year old kids think in those terms? Maybe his did.

Then you have Uncle Joe Biden who is a heartbeat away from becoming President and he continues his goofball ways. At the ceremony for the return of the bodies of those killed in the Libya attack, the father of former Navy SEAL Tyrone Woods, says Uncle Joe approached his family and asked "in a loud and boisterous" tone, "Did your son always have balls the size of cue balls?" Who in their right mind would ask a family something like that in a time of loss? Get these losers out of office ASAP and save our country.

MYTMITE
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Moc, yep that is about right. The mentality of a 6 year old is

about right for anyone to be impressed with Obama. Sadly, or maybe not-the patina and the charisma have rubbed off and we are finally seeing the real picture. Maybe after the elections Obama, Bill Clinton and Biden can get an act together and go on the road. Obama will have to learn some new songs but he can sing, Clinton can blow that sax and Biden can do the Jerry Lewis role as clown and comedian.

rolling stone
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Where is the "Freedom of Speech" crowd when you need them?

The video by “Girls” creator Lena Dunham was tweeted to her 400,000 20-something followers. I have heard of no complaints from her intended audience. Of course it would not go over well with the "Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb" Iran crowd, too immoral for that.

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rollingstoned

I didn't see any posts advocating that Lena Dunham should not be allowed to post some video or should be silenced by the law. I see people disgusted with it but isn't that the same as exercising their right to free speech as much as Lena Dunham?

I don't believe anywhere in the Constitution does it state that there exists the right to free speech with no consequence or rebuttal. This is a concept our Mayor also struggles mightily with too.

Quallacherokee
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Freedom of Speech

Boy are some Americans surely government educated dunces,
so let's look at this whole misunderstood SIMPLE concept
Freedom of Speech is a Constitutionally protected right each of us have
without fearing government reprisals, or imprisonment for speaking our thoughts. However, some speech is NOT protected, making threats to another human is NOT protected, Speech that is intended to cause insurrections or sedition is NOT protected, sitting in an airport discussing bomb making 101 is NOT protected and so on.

ALL protection of Free Speech ends at Private Property, likewise the speaker
can not FORCE other to listen to the speech.

Bottom line speak all ya want, but a wise person will know when to Shut Up

Cyclist
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rolling stone

Tell Kevin that it's not about free speech. Rather, it's about a desperate campaign that can't help to see that the lead the "anointed one" had in the polls has evaporated.

rolling stone
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Cyclist and Nuk_1

I mentioned free speech in celebration of it with a tongue-in-cheek request for approval. The conservative reaction to this video is nothing short of hilarious.

Cyclist, Kevin had no input into that post. I doubt he even reads this stuff any longer. Taking neuroplasticity into account, I should probably quit too. Cheers.

Cyclist
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rolling stone

Fair enough.

BTW coffee gathering soon. Stay in touch.

MYTMITE
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To paraphrase an old country song "Mothers don't let your

daughters grow up to vote for Obama." Yes, we do have freedom of speech and ye it even covers banal, senseless, tasteless inane bids for votes. Wonder if Sasha and little sister tuned in?

Ready for coffee. When and where. May I suggest if in AM at Starbucks by Steimart and if in PM at Mexican Restaurant that I can never remember the name but in the Smokey Bones, Longhorn shopping center. Really anywnere would be fine--be good to see all again.

NUK_1
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Gathering

Either of those two sounds good to me :)

Are u talking about El Ranchero in Braelinn or La Hacienda over by Wal-Mart? The Mexican restaurant behind Longhorn closed several years ago ;) I can't remember the name of it either right now but it's gone for quite a while.

MYTMITE
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I am talking about the one at the back end of the Smiokey Bones

area. The coffee bunch went there some time ago and a good time was had by all. Think it was last time Kevin was around and he had his boys with him. I have a mental block where that place is concerned and I do like it---it has a pation area-----

NUK_1
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MYTMITE

I think you are talking about EL Ranchero, but that's not behind Smokey Bones, it's directly across 74 in the shopping center with Pascal's, Carraba's, Tuesday Morning, etc. They have two locations in PTC and that's probably the one you are talking about.

The place behind Longhorn years ago was On The Border, just remembered that :)

moelarrycurly
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Taco Mac

might be what Mymite means.

MYTMITE
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Thanks mlc, I think that is it. Don't know why I can never

remember it. I do remember we had a nice evening there with a nice crowd from the coffee crew. But, then, good company makes any place a good place.

NUK_1
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Ahhh...yeah. Taco Mac

Totally forgot about that being there. Tremendous beer selection and some pretty awful food, even for bar-type food :)

Going to make it over to Tyrone today and try the reborn Corelli's!

MYTMITE
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Yep, you are right about the food, but if the company is good

you don't notice the bad food as much. As for Corelli's, I don't think you will be disappointed. If you really have a sweet tooth try the Zappolis (sp?). I think they come in an order of eight and each one is pretty big so you will need friends or family to share with but boy are they good! If that is too much for you they also have all the usual Italian desserts-cannolis, etc. Tell Maryanne hello for me-----

MYTMITE
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So, Nuk, how was your visit to Corelli's? Did you try any of

the desserts?

NUK_1
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MYTMITE: Nope

Had a change of plans so now I'm shooting for this upcoming weekend instead!

PTC Observer
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NUK_1 - Corelli's

I can recommend that you go, food is good, large portions, and price is right. Bring friends.

Cyclist
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Coffee Gathering

How about this coming Saturday morning at the PTC Starbucks by Steimart 0900 till........

Gym..Do you need a ride?

NUK_1
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Coffee

Sounds good to me!

AtHomeGym
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Cy & ride

I'll be there--no thanks on the ride.

Cyclist
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Coffee Gathering

This coming Saturday morning at the PTC Starbucks by Steimart 0900 till........

MYTMITE
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Barring any unforseen obstacle, I will be there. Will be good

to see everyone again.

Cyclist
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Coffee - Gathering Tomorrow Morning

Quallacherokee, JeffC, you both ought to come by. The same goes for everyone else.

MYTMITE
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Cy, et al, sorry---the mind and heart are willing but the body

just does not want to cooperate this morning. Getting old is not for sissies, I tell you. If things get better in the next hour or so I will try to stop by and maybe some of you will still be there. Was really looking forward to seeing everyone again. Well, as Scarlett said "Tomorrow's another day" or something inane like that.

Cyclist
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Hey MYTMITE

Gym and I missed you. We'll see you at the next one.

MYTMITE
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Cy, these old bones don't want to cooperate early in the morning

with the weather change. I am like a bear hibernating--takes me a week or two to get acclimated--and this changing back and forth, hot and cold, hot and cold does not help. Had been doing alright (of course I had been staying in bed til 9:30-10:00!) but this am just was not a good one. Oh, well, I am here, still kicking and raising heck all over the place so can't complain. Were you two the only ones there? Shame.

NUK_1
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Humor or irony fails here :)

This SERIOUS BUSINESS!!!!! :)

AtHomeGym
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Rolling Rock & Neuroplasticity

Neuroplasticity is a hoax! I took 6 months of intensive therapy after a stroke to incite neuroplasticity--didn't do a damn thing for me! I cn't find one Neurologist who believes it works--why do you?

rolling stone
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AtHomeGym & Neurorigidity

What we have here is a fine example of the red brain v blue brain effect. I find it extremely easy to believe that some people would show immunity to changing their thought patterns. It appears to be epidemic on the Citizen blog.
I believe in neuroplasticity because of my own experiences, one of which is becoming more ambidextrous as I get older, another is my perception of getting better looking every day. It works for me.

AtHomeGym
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Rolling Rock & Neurorigidity

You need to avoid high altitudes without oxygen! However if that happens, properly smoked & seasoned pork is the antidote!

Quallacherokee
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Not too Bright either

Do ya really want to tick off people trained to "make accidents" ???

S. Lindsey
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New Info-out today CIA operatives asked for assistance-DENIED

Tyrone Woods and Glen Doherty were not part of the Security team heard the gunfire and knew that their Ambassador was under attack.

They requested permission to go and assist and were told to stand down..as the battle raged they again requested permission to assist and requested back-up and again was told to stand down.

However these two American Warriors knew we were being attacked and went anyway. Do you realize the sacrifice they made?

THEY KNEW THEY HAD NO BACK-UP but went anyway to defend Americans being attacked by TERRORIST knowing that in all likelihood they were going to be killed BUT WENT ANYWAY.

This Administration ALLOWED Americans to be killed and did nothing.

"NEW EXPLOSIVE BENGHAZI ALLEGATIONS: CIA OPERATORS TOLD TO ‘STAND DOWN’ DURING ATTACK AS 3 URGENT REQUESTS FOR MILITARY BACK-UP WERE DENIED"

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/explosive-benghazi-allegation-cia-told-t...

You and I know that if this was a Republican President in charge of this fiasco and this was revealed 2 weeks out from the election it would be over.. and rightly so. Our so called media outlets will not tell us the truth nor simply do their jobs.

AtHomeGym
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SL & Benghazi Attack

I guess the drones that were in the area were not armed, else they could have unloaded on the mortar coords the guy on the roof of the Annex was sending--still lotsa unanswered questions here. Maybe some of the survivors will break silence and tell the nation the truth.

S. Lindsey
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Specter Gunship slightly more then 400 miles away...

...with men on the ground lasing the mortar crew lives might have been saved...

AtHomeGym
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SL & AC-130

Oh yeah--guarantee Puff would have taken care of business ok---what a sight it is to see that bad boy work out at night--just a steady stream of tracers! I've never seen them unload that 105mm out of the side door but I bet you can see the plane shift sideways when they do!

NUK_1
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It's a disgrace

If even HALF of this is true, there are some real issues that are beyond who is the next President:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/10/26/cia-operators-were-denied-req...

Yep, that is is a "FAUX NEWS" story but there are plenty of similar outlets reporting it that aren't "conservative" or whatever.

The entire stupidity of blaming a video and then the cover-up and complete lies of people like Rice, Clinton and Obama just shows their lack of character or any shred of integrity that isn't anything MOST didn't realize before, but there is more going on than just the political whores lying here. Leon Panetta isn't a stupid man but he's got some serious explaining to do here.

What I blame Obama for is being such a jackazz that he thinks the death of 4 Americans is some kind of "teaching moment" about making a terrible video that offends some Stone Age idiots so much so that he willfully ignores reality/truth and thinks he can get away with it. So, he sends his surrogates out to the media to continue the lie that he knew was total BS to begin with. Next, it's throw Clinton under the bus and then when that doesn't resonate, chunk the CIA in there too. Disgusting.

Georgia Patriot
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Petraeus Jumps Ship

Head of the CIA states that the decision to not help in Benghazi did not come from anyone in the CIA, so that leaves someone OVER the CIA, http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2012/10/26/Petraeus-on-Benghazi-It-Wa... GP

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