Libya and Lies

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Robert W. Morgan
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Hmmmm. running out of people to blame. Carter took the hit.

As he should have and good for him. A classy guy who has done much good after a not so good Presidency. I like Jimmy. I like all people who display class.

Now we have Obama who is running out of people to blame. Petraeus is done with it and blameless. Hillary seems off the hook, Sec Def is out front so he may be getting ready to take the hit, Valerie Jarrett is in the bunker and can't be touched - although she should be, Moochelle and the kids were out grazing in the garden, Biden was looking through the telescope at his belly button in his house wondering why there was a telescope in his house, Van Jones is safely on CNN, Bush was seen driving somewhere that day - so he could be involved somehow, Jay Carney is certain to commit suicide, so there may be a way to spin the blame his way OR he could just blame it on the heros that got killed trying to defend our country by saying they disobeyed orders to "stand down" - think he might go down that path?

I want a new President. Is that too much to ask?

NUK_1
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RWM: Agree
Robert W. Morgan wrote:

As he should have and good for him. A classy guy who has done much good after a not so good Presidency. I like Jimmy. I like all people who display class.

didn't like his disaster presidency whatsoever but the man showed his class and dignity over the botched Iran raid and I don't think you'll ever see another President step-up and accept responsibility(even when it's not actually "his" fault) like Carter did then. Showing that kind of "the buck stops here" mentality would be buried by every political consultant, your stupid political party, and the media as "political suicide." You'd be called Dear Clueless Leader if you dared to say something like that in 2012.

That's the best stuff I have for Jimmy Carter and I am in a charitable mood right now. I'll lay-off all the other grievances I have against him before-during-after his Presidency and just say that at that moment, he was a leader instead of a politician.

Quallacherokee
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Jimmy Carter

What a complete Failure as President,,,
BUT The whole George Washington and Cherry Tree thing is a Historical lie, something that Mr Carter can not be accused of, hence one of his biggest political failures, He didn't have it in him to lie. and a shame on US the people for knowing "he was too honest" to be President, I mean what does THAT say about us the voters,,I see it as "permission" for politicians to lie to us if they want to be seen successful.

One other thing even if ya choose not to attend a Church, there is one thing we as Americans can do that few other 1st world country citizens can do,
We can attend a Former Presidents Sunday School class, as equals,,
In my minds eye, THAT too is class, oh and yes he's a MUCH better Sunday School teacher than President,,
(and if ya do head to Plains ya HAVE to eat at Pharr Jacks THE BEST Cajun/Soul food in Ga)

AtHomeGym
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GP & Petraeus

I can't imagine Petraeus backing away from any situation where our folks are in peril--simply not in his genes--for any reason!

Georgia Patriot
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AHG Petraeus

I think he jumped out so quick to state "it wasn't me" because he disagreed with the order coming from higher up, maybe DNI Clapper or maybe even Obama?

Obama sending out Susan Rice to propagate the knowingly wrong narrative of the video being responsible makes me think he is neck deep in this. -GP

AtHomeGym
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GP & The DNI

The DNI is basically a policy guy and not normally operationally involved, so I discount that possibility. And SecState would have to go to SecDef or higher. No, it had to be from the White House level I believe.

Robert W. Morgan
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No, DNI not normally involved operationally is true

Might be true now that we have these immature teenagers and has-beens like Clapper running the show. I doubt Obama participated in these bad decisions while they were happening, but the coverup? Oh yes, he and Valerie are into that neck deep. For sure.

AtHomeGym
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RWM & DNI

Wouldn't call him a "has been"--he served with distinction in the AF, as Director of the DIA. He led what was previously called "NIMA". No amateur in the intel business and no previously expressed political leaning.

Georgia Patriot
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Obama and Stand Down Order

It wouldn't surprise me if Obama wasn't the one giving the order, after all he is always the smartest person in the room, able to heal the planet and making the oceans recede, etc...directing our Military must seem like child's play to someone so intelligent. http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/petraeus-throws-obama-under-bus_6578...

When directly asked about the "Stand Down" order notice how he responds to questions that were not asked and then mentions he will get to the bottom of this, kind of reminds me of OJ's hunt for the killer! http://www.infowars.com/local-news-reporter-grills-president-obama-on-li...

Wonder how far away we are on this one until "Executive Privilege" is asserted? Maybe he could write it on back of the "Fast and Furious" order? -GP

Quallacherokee
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GP

We are EXACTLY 10 days away from Benghazi being declared Executive Privilege
in 10 days it will be 1 Day PAST the election ....

AtHomeGym
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GP & Benghazi Attack

The Sunday talk shows did not really dig up any real answers, with fingers pointed at POTUS and SecDef both. I'm betting that confusion and avoidance will reign past the election.

Georgia Patriot
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AHG
AtHomeGym wrote:

The Sunday talk shows did not really dig up any real answers, with fingers pointed at POTUS and SecDef both. I'm betting that confusion and avoidance will reign past the election.

I agree, It looks like the false narrative of blaming the video along with the useless media may have diverted attention long enough to get past Nov 6th. May God help us all. -GP

Quallacherokee
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GP

""May God help us all""

Sadly my E friend, it's been my experience that God helps those willing to help them selves. This country stopped being WILLING a century ago.
Ya know if ya plant kudzu, don't expect to harvest Tomato's

Georgia Patriot
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Qualla
Quallacherokee wrote:

""May God help us all""

Sadly my E friend, it's been my experience that God helps those willing to help them selves. This country stopped being WILLING a century ago.
Ya know if ya plant kudzu, don't expect to harvest Tomato's

Kudzu?.....The disease of Socialism/Communism/Progessivism is much like Kudzu and the USA is in need of a good weeding!

It is time for a choice. Joshua 24:15 -GP

Quallacherokee
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GP 24:15

Nice verse wasn't one in the ole memory bank,
Although my favorite verse lately (last 4 years) is Psalms 109:8..
and yes, Kudzu (imo) is THE best plant to describe CPS(70 years ago known as Nazi) Kudzu LOOKED like a good idea, it helped locally for a minute or so
and a select few got filthy stinking rich from it, now it's choking out
productive land,food,materials, it takes 10 times the effort to remove, and only critters from the middle east (goats) can eat and live off the stuff

Georgia Patriot
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Obama was Watching Benghazi?

Was the anointed one the person who made the "Stand Down" call? http://www.theblaze.com/stories/retired-lt-col-my-sources-say-obama-was-... GP

Quallacherokee
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David's Mom Freedom Continued ,,,(just not in America)

Yes, let's leave the Slavery pre Federalist War out of this conversation.
You say you believe a License should be attained prior to weapon ownership
(Arms) OK Miss DM, I can actually understand that belief, I'll stand opposed to that idea (armed) ALL DAY LONG, but we can talk about it. This is gonna sound ridiculous and it is, but AS WRITTEN the 2nd gives me the RIGHT to own and carry a NUKE,,, yes the 2nd needs to be "modernized" but THAT process can ONLY occur through the Amendment process, Until such a thing happens the 2nd AS WRITTEN is the LAW; and ANY law "infringing" on my right to keep and bear arms is illegal..Unconstitutional, AND an infringement on Freedom. It would be NO DIFFERENT than say ,, Brooks passed a law making Slavery Legal as long as the owner registered his/her slaves, paid a tax to process the "permission slip" to have the slaves and that the slaves could only be used in certain areas. (New York City has such Gun/Knife/Arms Laws)

NO I do NOT believe I have to play with Rattlesnakes to prove I'm a Christian, BUT there are those that do, and the act of FOLLOWING New Testament Christian Bible teachings is an illegal act in this country that "promises" Freedom of Religion...
As to the mutilation of human children in religious ceremonies, the African Tribe that circumcises female clitoris, yes I think that is barbaric BUT how is that really any different than Jewish mutilations on male children?
In a Land that CLAIMS Freedom of Religion?

Using the Constitution,, YES !!! that is how Dr Martin Luther King Jr helped you and me, this is why most "educated" Indians are lawyers, (you beat your foe with their own rules) but even then courts and lawmakers seek further restriction on Individual Liberty, Government people like Reagan, Obama, FDR, Lincoln, Jackson, Wilson, Ike, etc etc who would use "law" to circumvent Constitutional Law ARE our Foes,, scratch that ENEMY. I know this sounds simple, but the second a government empowered person stands on the stump and say's "there ought to be a law" What they are REALLY saying is "YOU'RE ABOUT TO LOOSE A FREEDOM" And this is something I OPPOSE with my life, wealth, possessions, and Liberty. EVERY DAY sadly I know I am in a very very small minority of like minded persons, but I STAND regardless

Individual Liberty and Individual Freedom is H A R D, probably the most HARD thing any human can attempt, when others seek to make that choice "easier" all they are doing is surrendering their God Given Right to TRY.
They are also elevating themselves above their neighbors, which in time will only lead to resentment. and resentment in ANY religion (human condition) can ONLY lead to one end result,,,,, CRIME against another Human

Miss DM, for the record, sometimes I type things meant to be "smart butt"
and you would know this face to face as you could SEE the little smirk, I'm learning that a smirk doesn't translate on the puter.. (Working on that)
so IF something seems particularly,,offensive,, most likely it was just a computer failed attempt at being a smartellik (sp??) and you need know as does GP, NUK, and others I'm enjoying our computer conversations ....

QC

Davids mom
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Quote: Individual Liberty and
Quote:

Individual Liberty and Individual Freedom is H A R D, probably the most HARD thing any human can attempt, when others seek to make that choice "easier" all they are doing is surrendering their God Given Right to TRY

The history of my family, and probably yours too is based on Trying! The problem has been that some people feel their God given right trumps another's God given right. This is where respect and understanding comes into play. We have 'rules' so that we as humans can demonstrate our God give rights - yet not demean or deny another their God given right. We usually develop these skills within our family unit. I have heard so much 'smart butt' talk from sons, students, etc. - that I recognize it for what it is and only react to the substantive stuff. ( now when the boys were younger, they knew where the respectful line was - but today they are full grown men ). And the appropriate 'smirks' are noted . Our unique experiences make us stand. . Freedom is not easy - unless you live in a very small, insular community.

G35 Dude
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Q - Gun rights
Quote:

This is gonna sound ridiculous and it is, but AS WRITTEN the 2nd gives me the RIGHT to own and carry a NUKE,,, yes the 2nd needs to be "modernized" but THAT process can ONLY occur through the Amendment process, Until such a thing happens the 2nd AS WRITTEN is the LAW; and ANY law "infringing" on my right to keep and bear arms is illegal..

Interesting point. So would you say that it is unconstitutional (as written) to deny a felon the right to carry a weapon?

Quallacherokee
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G 35

I know it's rude to answer a question with a question... but I'm going to do so

A RELEASED person has RIGHTS or not? and if NOT why are they released?

A "Convicted" felon has the right to a trial by jury?? yes no?
A Convicted Felon has the right to practice or not Religion?
A Convicted Felon, has the right to speak ? and print his/her words?
A Convicted Felon has the right to LIFE, Liberty, and Property.. yes no???

ONCE released,,, How is it possible to tell "man' A he has less God given rights than "man' B ?????

Time served ,,,,or not???
Once Released, for a crime, ALL rights MUST be restored or,,don't release, because all that is being set up is a system of failure

G35 Dude
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Rights of one vs many

Sometimes you have to weigh the rights of an individual vs the rights of the many. The freedom of speech for example does not give one the right to yell "FIRE" in a crowded theater. The right of the many to be safe out weights the right of the one to cause chaos. A person may have served his time and therefore has the right to freedom. But if based on his crime, history, mental state etc it is determined that he is not responsible enough to carry a weapon then I don't think he should be allowed to.

Oh and BTW I have a permit and do carry so I'm not anti gun by any means.

Quallacherokee
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G35 rights

The good of the many outweighs then needs of the one eh?
That's very Vulcan of you, think I'll stick to the human side of things
that it's the INDIVIDUAL that matters, and has RIGHTS, not the group

and if you're worried about "the group" then don't let the individual out
but once out, YES he or she is Human and has Human Rights

S. Lindsey
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Same argument the New Orleans Police used...

....to seize LEGAL guns from homeowners after Katrina. The needs or safety of the many outweigh the needs or safety of the individual..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1Qx0cTze0M&amp&a

Barrels of those guns set rusting in the basement of the NOPD and lawsuits are STILL pending without being heard 7 years later.

Quallacherokee
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NOPD

7 years later is exactly correct, and for THIS ISSUE ALONE, I would NEVER support La's Governor if he ever decided to run for President. Jindal could
in one stroke of his pen correct this abuse,,,

This is also why I WILL NOT send money in any way to "help" N.O. nor will ever be visiting N.O. EVER,

Quallacherokee
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G35

I'm NOT trying to be rude to you are belittle you in any way, but the idea that your think it necessary to obtain Permission to Carry a weapon tells me alot about you and your thought process. It also causes me to pity you (and those like you) for ANY human to believe they need to seek out permission from government before hey can exercise a Human Right, is truly sad. It also makes me wonder how easy it will be for the government to convince said permission slip owners (CWP) to agree to having to get more permission slips prior to Speaking or attend a Church or write their thoughts down...

but hey, like I said earlier, I KNOW I'm a minority in this Freedom thing, and I understand the risk I take for NOT complying with Unconstitutional laws,,,maybe I just have less to loose. Whatever the case I do believe Individual Freedom is worth the risk

G35 Dude
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Q
Quote:

I'm NOT trying to be rude to you are belittle you in any way, but the idea that your think it necessary to obtain Permission to Carry a weapon tells me alot about you and your thought process. It also causes me to pity you (and those like you) for ANY human to believe they need to seek out permission from government before hey can exercise a Human Right, is truly sad. It also makes me wonder how easy it will be for the government to convince said permission slip owners (CWP) to agree to having to get more permission slips prior to Speaking or attend a Church or write their thoughts down...

Interesting comment. So you assume that because I comply with the law and obtain a permit to carry a weapon that I wouldn't fight an attempt to take said weapon away from me? That is not a safe assumption to make my friend! My only point is that some rights must be tempered for the sake of all. As one supreme court justice stated. Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins. I'm not belittled by your comments. You are entitled to your beliefs. As I have said before just because I don't agree doesn't mean I don't learn from discussing issues with you.

Quallacherokee
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G35

I do my level best not to assume anything about folks, and yes my right to swing my fist ends at your nose, but MY (and your) right to keep and bear arms does not end just because a local jurisdiction writes a law in an attempt to curb this Human Right. "tempering" or attempting to temper a right is imo the huge reason we have the mess of a country we are enduring today.
This notion of yelling fire in a theater being put forth as a restriction on "free speech" is actually not a good argument, I can yelling Fire all day long in a theater, but in doing so (when there's no fire) is a criminal action.
Carrying a gun, holstered, in a non threatening manner however is (or should not be) a criminal action and according to "The Law of the Land" is NOT a criminal action. The crime is in requiring a person to obtain government permission to do so. Now if the theater or another privately owned business post a sign forbidding weapons then they are well within their rights, but the NANOSECOND government does so it is an ILLEGAL act, so much so that the founding fathers made it abundantly clear This Human Right SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED, no other written "Bill of Rights" has such CLEAR and direct meaning, therefore it is safe to assert this Right was extremely important then and even more so today. And when citizens cave in to illegal demands from the government WE ALL LOOSE, asking for permission to carry is Caving in
and surrendering a Human Right, there is no other argument to be made on this point, Either the Constitution IS the law of the land, or it is not. Sadly, it's not...and hasn't been for 150 years

Davids mom
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Just an opinion - individual human rights/guns

Individual human rights should be protected, and the Constitution, as written, is the premier document that does this, in my opinion . If individual citizens take actions that prove injurious to law abiding citizens - and private citizens and/or the community take no steps to protect law abiding citizens, then the 'government' of that community has the responsibility to protect the citizens of said community. When the founding fathers wrote the Constitution, bearing arms had a significantly different affect on the safety and security of the community. One who lives in a community where individuals carry AK 47's with criminal intent support amending the written Constitution to make this a criminal act . There is no need for a citizen to carry an assault weapon in a crowded public street - which has happened in too many communities in our country! Feel blessed if you and your families have not been exposed to this. No where have I read of an attempt to make it illegal for a law abiding citizen to carry. ( I am permitted to carry a concealed weapon in California. I have not felt the need to investigate if I need a permit to carry in Georgia, since I don't carry a gun here.)

Quallacherokee
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DM

So as to not run afoul of Cops here in Ga, yes you need a permit to not only conceal carry but to open carry. (handgun) However, your automobile is considered an extension of your home thus no permit is required. but do yourself a favor, if ya have a weapon in your car and get pulled over for any infraction tell the cop Immediately WITHOUT reaching for said weapon.

AS to AK47's; Most government educated Americans have no inkling of the weapons used to defeat the Most Powerful Military on the Planet in 1776, when asked most Americans will say, oh yeah "they" had muskets, and go on with their ignorant life.
In FACT most Americans (that'd be the Farmers, shoppe keepers, trappers, Brewers, Tavern owners) had Rifles, it was the British that had OUTDATED Muskets
Ya see in 1776 the regular ole American had what at the time was considered "Assault Weapons". not to mention the more wealthy Americans owned Cannons, Sam Adams personally owned 400 documented Cannons, Some Americans even had weapons so "sinister" they were frowned upon simple because the use of said weapons "wasn't fair" (this would be those that owned Girandoni Air Rifle, a weapon as deadly accurate as a Hawkins, but made no report when fired, not to mention it could be rapidly fired 30 times before having to be reloaded)

All of this is to say, YES the Founding Fathers, KNEW the difference between Personal Defense Weapons, Sporting Weapons,and Assault Weapons yet they choose (unanimously all Signatories of the Bill of Rights) agreed to NOT to limit "type or class" of Arm when declaring in the 2nd Amendment "The Right of The People to Keep and Bear Arms, SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED."
These same men DID with purpose place limits on other Rights listed in the Bill of Rights, look at Amendment 3, as well as Amendment 7, These HAVE limits and or restrictions, which could have been done Easily to the 2nd, yet they didn't. Their "intention" is abundantly clear. Free people have the Human Right to defend themselves with ANY means available.

DM we, (Americans) when discussing the 2nd get tunnel vision that it's somehow just about guns, well NO it's about ARMS, that could be a stick, a rock, or an Animal trained to defend it's owner. You and others have an aversion to AK47's and the like, ok I get that, but what's so mass deadly about a Sword? or a knife with a blade longer than 4 1/2 inches? These Arms are forbidden to be OPENLY carried,, Ya see how this works, one little law is written and folks don't squawk, then another, then another, until finally a law is written OutLawing the Constitution (including the repeal of the 13th)
oh and this WILL happen, History Proves it

S. Lindsey
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Q..teaching History to the Teacher...

Q-Nicely done. Many just don't "get it" however they think the Constitution should be malleable to be able to be molded to fit "their" views of what "we" need.

All it takes is just "one" feel good law (Mag cap ban) that prevents nothing and then the building stone has been laid to place the next and so on and so on.

btw-DM you are no longer permitted in California.. Your State of Residence has been changed you are therefore no longer permitted to conceal carry.
Since you are not permitted in Ga. DO NOT place a loaded firearm in a concealed position while traveling. It must be in open site. So if stopped make the Officer aware of it's location. If it is concealed don't give permission to search and hope he/she doesn't fell the need to "frisk" tha car for their safety. If the weapon is within reach of the driver and concealed and you are not permitted..well let's say it is going to be a long day for you.

G35 Dude
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Car carry

I do believe that you are allowed to carry a gun in your glove box loaded without a permit even. But you are right that there are places that you can not have a gun in your car like under the seat. And yes it is a good idea to let any officer that stops you know that you do have one in the car.

Quallacherokee
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Communication saves lives

G35, right on! When ya get pulled over, Save your Life by telling the Officer,
"I have a loaded Firearm" do this with BOTH hands clearly visible and DO NOT reach for it until instructed to do so, and then do so in a slow non threatening manner, (I promise ya the Officer WILL have his/her hand on their service weapon while you retrieve your weapon, and I don't blame them one second) Cops jobs are tuff enough without them having to worry about getting shot by a ticked off soccer mom, Communicating clearly up front can save your life,, and when you survive this roadside encounter, the pending Lawsuit you're gonna file for being "wrongly" pulled over is much easier to accomplish, sure if you act stupid and end up dead, your family will sue, but you'll never get to enjoy that new Ferrari your wife bought her new boyfriend......

meanoldconservatives
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Car carry

This is interesting conversation. I have a carry permit and have often wondered what the smart play was as well as what was recommended by law enforcement. I asked a Fayetteville police officer directly a few months ago...."If I have a permit and a loaded weapon in my car and am stopped by a police officer, do I immediately volunteer that I have a loaded weapon and a permit to do so?" He told me that is the last thing he wants to hear from a driver. He said to volunteer the information only if the officer saw something that made him want to search the car. If asked if a search is allowed, volunteer immediately the presence of the gun and where he can find it. He said otherwise, it presents unnecessary tension and danger if it is actually just a routine stop. Just saying what he told me in response to my question. That is just one officers opinion.....

Quallacherokee
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Car Carry

A very dear friend in Coweta was stopped for speeding, he elected not to mention that he was in possession of a legal handgun with a CWP to boot.
The ticket was issued and as an after thought the officer inquired if there was anything in the vehicle he should "know about" at this point my friend informed the officer. What happen next is inexcusable, my friend was then "felony" (at Gun Point)removed from his truck, laid out prone in the middle of the road and arrested for NOT informing the officer immediately that he had a firearm on his person. let's call him Pete, Pete is STILL facing weapons charges in Coweta Co.
Simply for failing to notify the Officer of the Weapon.
( I would LOVE to be on that Jury)

meanoldconservatives
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Qualla

Well then, this is obviously a dangerous and unclear issue for all of us who carry legally.

Quallacherokee
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MOC

Yup, and I PERSONALLY choose to notify at first contact, along with behavior that will lessen the officers apprehension. The Bumper sticker next to my Tag also informs whomever, that the Driver IS armed at all times....
hey maybe that's why folks let me pull over into "their" lane so often with a friendly smile and wave ,,,hehehhe

lol,, Funny true story, a few years back I was riding my Horse down to Tyrone's Publix to get some bread, I ride with a "western rig" .45lc; when I got to the store, a new Tyrone officer pulled up and started chatting about my Horse, we talked 5 solid minutes before I dismounted I then asked the officer if he'd mind letting me run in real quick and keep an eye on Smoke and the Winchester in the scabbard.. This young fellow turned ghost white when he realized, that he had missed not only a Rifle, but the .45 at my hip. He recovered well and agreed to keep an eye on Smoke, I ran in bought my bread and headed Home... to this day, I'm told this fellow is much more attentive to what's going on, the lesson I learned was even if I believe my weapons are in "clear view" I MAKE DANG SURE officers are made aware of their presence, as much for MY safety as for theirs

Quallacherokee
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Car Carry,

SECOND HAND INFO< Check this out for yourself! do NOT "trust" my info on this

I was told by several local cops, that Ga law on this car issue changes regularly but for now your car is an extension of your home, therefore you may have a weapon ANYWHERE in your vehicle, (except on Military bases and school zones)

Again, CHECK THIS OUT FOR YOURSELF, DO NOT TAKE MY WORD FOR THIS ISSUE

Davids mom
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Q G35Dude

Very informative conversation! I don't carry here - but did when I worked in communities where I felt it was necessary. I will check it out. Thanks. I used to carry my 'gun' in full view beside me on the car seat in LA. Otherwise, it was in my purse/bag. I'm blessed never having to use it. I had a friend who was visiting a parent when she was shot. No personal confrontation - she was caught in a cross-fire.

renault314
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DM- let me enlighten you
Davids mom wrote:

No where have I read of an attempt to make it illegal for a law abiding citizen to carry.

Up until just recently (thx to the SCOTUS), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Illinois it was completely illegal to own a handgun of any kind in chicago or oak park Ill. Even in your own home. Carry of any kind was of course completely illegal and no application by ordinary citizens for concealed carry are ever approved, even today. The difference between a "shall issue" state like ga and a "may issue" state like ILL. You want to talk infringement of rights? Its so bad in illinois that you have to have a state registration card just to be ALLOWED TO OWN AMMUNITION, even if you DONT HAVE a gun at all. without the firearms owners ID card (FOID) card you cant even buy ammo in the state. DM you are very fond of mentioning "rights" that you as a black woman only recently accuired, if you lived in chicago, the hometown of your beloved president, you would only recently have gained the "right" to own a gun in your own home, much less take it with you. Obama was for this legislation when he was a state rep. by the way. The joke is that those rules were put into place to protect the public from gun crime, but they just made it worse since, by definition, criminals dont obey the law. Chicago has the highest gun crime rate in the country. So, one might conclude that strict gun control is not effective in curbing violent crime. Ga, on the other hand, has relatively liberal gun laws and enjoys falling violent crime rates. Lastly, its important that you understand the 2nd amendment from its historical perspective. Yes, the farmers and militamen had muskets back then, but so did the british army. Having just used weapons to defeat the oppressors, there is no way that the founders would have intentionally written into the 2nd such a mandatory disadvantage as a rule saying citizens must always have inferior weapons to government soldiers. The whole point of the 2nd was to allow ordinary citizens to be able to protect themselves FROM gov't soldiers. Today, soldiers get assault weapons, so citizens should too.

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Renault 314

Well stated, DC was once this way as well the SCOTUS however told DC (and Chicago) their laws are unconstitutional, DC acted Chicago, gave a big middle finger.

At the end of your statement you mention Soldiers get assault weapons and yes they do, but in a day in day life in America it's not soldiers we need to be prepared to defend ourselves from. it's our Para-Military law enforcement agencies. There are PD all over the US that have Airborne Gunships, Tanks, Armed Drones, and THOUSANDS of machine guns, "we the people" have allowed ourselves to become outgunned, and until "law abiding" citizens wake up to this
FACT, we are period end of story, living at the mercy of "Law Enforcement"

Davids mom
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Renault
Quote:

Illinois does not issue licenses for the concealed carry of firearms, nor does it recognize licenses issued by other states. Illinois is the only state that does not allow concealed carry in some form. Open carry is also prohibited in most areas. When a firearm is being transported, it must be unloaded and enclosed in a case

You chose the wrong black women to use Chicago as an example. Did you ever hear of the Blackstone Rangers? Take a few moments to enlighten yourself – and realize that this group had grown into a fearsome entity in Chicago starting in the 50’s. Chicago’s history is frought with gangland style abuse of gun ownership. Most American communities are not ‘Chicago’ – but unfortunately, many urban areas are and always have been –regardless of the ethnicity of the inhabitants. Many attempts were made to protect the law-abiding citizens in Chicago from the abuse of gun use/ownership. There are many citizens in Chicago who were most supportive of the NO GUNS action. If you lived in Chicago – you would probably do as many do – and disobey the law and hope that you would not be caught – but would want protection in certain situations. . .or move to Fayette County. At one time there were 80,000 gang members –ARMED in the Chicago area from all ethnicities. (A very volatile situation) What would you want done?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almighty_Black_P._Stone_Nation

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1969/05/chicagos-blackstone-...

Have you found an attempt by this or any other national administration to outlaw guns in the United States? Obama has stated that he supports the legal ownership of guns - and the sporting industry. Gangs and zealous militias are not usually law-abiding citizens.

Quote:

Chicago has the highest gun crime rate in the country. So, one might conclude that strict gun control is not effective in curbing violent crime. Ga, on the other hand, has relatively liberal gun laws and enjoys falling violent crime rates.

To compare Chicago/Illinois with Georgia is a stretch. The gun owners in Chicago are not by any means 'hunters'. Strict gun control assisted the law-enforcement agencies to acquire some knowledge of the sale and resale of guns in Illinois. Hastily formed 'laws' in reaction to problems has always proved not to be the best solution to a problem. A well-written, well researched amendment to make the right of gun ownership relevant to todays life in these United States is needed - IMO.

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Just a quote...

...‘We are working on (gun control), but under the radar.’
Obama to Sarah Brady..

Just an observation...

.... "it will represent the most comprehensive move on the gun control front from this administration to date." The Huffington Post on Obama's Gun Control platform.

Just a point...

"The president also objected to a section aimed at blocking health, climate, auto policy and urban affairs “czars” from being employed by the White House; a provision that bars health officials from advocating for gun control; and a portion of the omnibus that limits funding for the Copyright Office." Obama on his oblections to the Omnibus bill.

renault314
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S. Lindsey - thanks

for saving me the trouble of responding. Didnt Obummer also make a statement to the effect of "we dont need ak-47's on the streets" during the travon martin incident?

Quallacherokee
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DM Let's look deeper

You point out the gangland life in Chicago, but let us explore the nature of this Gangland,, Is it Guns? NO! Guns are simply tools used by Gangs, The Gangs derive their "power" from ill-conceived laws (usually supported by Republicans) Prohibition of any substance is a sure fire way to make an underground economy
be it Booze, Drugs, or even Guns. How is this Gangland problem resolved?
Take away the gangs "power" and that does not mean their guns, but rather the source wherein they gain power in the first place, (repealing the 18th went a long way, but with in 3 years of the repealment of the 18th we had Anti Drug laws popping up all over the place thus HANDING the gangs a brand new source of power.
It is NOT the guns that are the problem, it Laws foolish written with the notion that a "law" will or can curtail individual bad decisions.
Bottom line Morality will NEVER be legislated, and these "morality" laws could not have been better written to guarantee Gang activity,

Davids mom
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Q

Your point is well taken! See my response to Renault.

renault314
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DM- here you go
Davids mom wrote:

You chose the wrong black women to use Chicago as an example.

in what way? were the things I said untrue?

Davids mom wrote:

There are many citizens in Chicago who were most supportive of the NO GUNS action.

Since most of Chicago is rabidly liberal, I'm not surprised, but that doesnt mean anything. Its like me saying most of the south was opposed to civil rights. No one is shocked, but that doesnt make it right.

Davids mom wrote:

If you lived in Chicago – you would probably do as many do – and disobey the law and hope that you would not be caught – but would want protection in certain situations

so youre suggesting that to protect myself from felons with guns, I become a felon with a gun? That makes sense to you, but letting me have a semiauto rifle does not?

Davids mom wrote:

At one time there were 80,000 gang members –ARMED in the Chicago area from all ethnicities. (A very volatile situation) What would you want done?

Other than go with Rham Emmanuels plan of asking the gangers to keep the gunfights in the alleys and try not to hit kids in the crossfire? I would do what all true conservatives do. Hold individuals accountable for their actions.

Davids mom wrote:

Have you found an attempt by this or any other national administration to outlaw guns in the United States?

tons. see S. Lindseys comment. and add the plan to make the U.S. subject to the U.N. small arms treaty.

Quote:

To compare Chicago/Illinois with Georgia is a stretch. The gun owners in Chicago are not by any means 'hunters'.

you have no data on that subject. And I dont think its a stretch at all. Atlanta and chicago are both large urban centers with disproportionatley large minority communities and crime rates out of proportion to the rest of the state. MNot saying those are related, just illustrating similarities.

Quote:

Strict gun control assisted the law-enforcement agencies to acquire some knowledge of the sale and resale of guns in Illinois.

I disagree, since gun crime in chicago is still stupidly high.

Quote:

Hastily formed 'laws' in reaction to problems has always proved not to be the best solution to a problem.

then why keep them?

Quote:

A well-written, well researched amendment to make the right of gun ownership relevant to todays life in these United States is needed - IMO.

yes, but thats the problem. you dont want me deciding whats relevant and neccessary for you, and I dont want you to do that for me either.

Davids mom
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Renault
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I would do what all true conservatives do. Hold individuals accountable for their actions

Oh - you would stand in the streets of Chicago and hold 'individuals' responsible/accountable? How? With your automatic rifle? I respect many conservative points of view - but sometimes the words of correct points of views - just don't make sense in some situations. You are so right. I don't want you to decide for me what is relevant - because you only see from your point of view - and are blind to others. I understand why there are citizens who want to have the freedom to 'carry', protect their homes, etc. You don't seem to have any idea of what it is like to live in a community where you and law-enforcement are outnumbered and out gunned. It's not like reading about 'crime' in The Citizen. Life in the Fayette Couny's of our country is good. All parents worry about their children regardless of where one lives. The reason you may have worked hard, studied to become successful. etc. is because you didn/t want your children in an environment that is tragically surrounded by crime and violence. Not all are as fortunate. In a country like ours, some people are more equal than others - based on opportunities and individual effort.

Rabidly liberal? What in the Sam Hill does a political ideology have to do with protecting your home and family? Have you ever lived in an environment where 8000-80,000 young men and women carried guns and had criminal intent? Do you think that liberals do not want a safe environment for their family? This country has become so blind to 'ideologies' that the extremes in our country have become grounded in ideology and not common sense.

Quote:

Since most of Chicago is rabidly liberal, I'm not surprised, but that doesnt mean anything. Its like me saying most of the south was opposed to civil rights. No one is shocked, but that doesnt make it right.

Rabidly liberal? Your labeling an entire city as 'rabidly liberal' is not 'right'. You mean you think the majority of people who are liberal don't care about the safety and security of their home and family? Really? Think for a minute Renault. Liberals are human. Conservatives are human. They have human needs, desires, etc. (Or maybe you think 'liberals' are not human.) ???? Some of the most 'conservative' people are church goers in Chicago - and often 'vote' based on 'conservative' principals.

Quote:

crime in chicago is still stupidly high.

Crime is stupid - no matter where it raises it's ugly head. Crime and unethical behavior is no more stupid in Chicago than in Fayette County - but there is a difference in the education level, economics, the atmosphere, etc. in many parts of our country. If the control of gun sales, and guns could solve our crime problem - we would have less crime in our country - but there are other factors to consider. However, the point is even though what was done in Chicago, Illinois was unconstitutional - if you can't understand why there were citizens who supported that action, you are not aware of a reality that is different from your reality. That's fine. But with your lack of knowledge and experience, you don't have the understanding to judge another's reality and enforce your lack of understanding in the solution of their problems. Stick to Fayette County. One doesn't have to live in an environment to gain a little understanding of what a different environment may be like. But one who is 'judgmental' should at least try to learn about some of the problems that exist in the environment of others.

I feel that if this country has the brain power to go to the moon, etc., we have the brain power to continue to make our written Constitution relevant to the 21st Century. (That means it is necessary for citizens to elect leaders who have the ability to truly represent citizens in 'government'. Our politics in 'democracies' have almost made truly intelligent, ethical men and women avoid serving - and that is the real tragedy of the 21st Century. But we continue to have 'stupid' laws on the books because we continue to elect stupid legislators (Couny, State, and National) It appears their goal is to get elected and exert power - rather than serve their constituents.

Quote:

were the things I said untrue?

No - just a different opinion - and I accept that. (Your opinion) I've just shared mine.

renault314
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DM - you are the very essence

of the pot calling the kettle black. I may be every bit as narrow minded, inexperienced and judgemental as you say I am. But its amusing to see you exemplify all those same qualities by trying to paint me with that brush. Arent we a pair!

Quote:

Oh - you would stand in the streets of Chicago and hold 'individuals' responsible/accountable? How? With your automatic rifle?

No. Thats not my job. Thats the job of law enforcement. I just want my rifle to protect myself until they get there. then the courts can do what we pay 'em to do. Never forget DM, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away!

Quote:

You are so right. I don't want you to decide for me what is relevant - because you only see from your point of view - and are blind to others.

And you are the queen of seeing others point of view? I dont think so. just because I dont want you to change the constitution to fit what you think it should be in "relevant, modern" times doesnt mean I dont see it. Its very arrogant of you to say that.

Quote:

You don't seem to have any idea of what it is like to live in a community where you and law-enforcement are outnumbered and out gunned.

you dont know anything about my history, so why do you think you can say thinkgs like that? You have no idea. I work in Fayco, and went to high school there, but I dont live there. I hear gunfire outside my apartment window 5 nights a week, living in jonesboro. Thankfully, I will be living back in Fayco before the years end, but please dont make the mistake of assuming I dont know what its like to live in high crime areas. Even Fayetteville and PTC have their less desireable areas. And having been fairly poor or a starving student most of my life I almost exclusively end up in those areas, wherever Im at.

Quote:

Rabidly liberal? What in the Sam Hill does a political ideology have to do with protecting your home and family?

ordinarily I would think, nothing. But for some reason liberal/progressives are almost universally on the side of brutally strict gun control, even when facts and statistics show it makes no difference. And Im not just cherry picking the stats. There is no study, not one, that shows a correlation between higher gun control and safer cities. If there were, the libs would be shouting it from the rooftops.

Quote:

Have you ever lived in an environment where 8000-80,000 young men and women carried guns and had criminal intent?

Does Iraq twice and Afghanistan once count? Perhaps not for this discussion. But seriously, even if I did live in a city where 80,000 criminals had guns and bad intentions, does taking the gun rights away from law abiding citizens make anyone safer? That makes about as much sense as saying all guns in afghanistan are now illegal, even for soldiers, on the premise that it will make everyone safer from Al Qaeda.

Quote:

Do you think that liberals do not want a safe environment for their family? This country has become so blind to 'ideologies' that the extremes in our country have become grounded in ideology and not common sense.

Im sure they do want to be safe, I think they are just so grounded in their liberal ideology that they dont care that the laws they pass dont make sense and dont work and are unconstitutional, i.e. banning all handguns in chicago and D.C. The fact that it had zero effect on crime was irrelevant, becasue of their dogmatic ideology. even after 20 years of worsening crime rates, do you seriously expect that a democrat would voluntarily restore peoples gun rights? Me either.

Quote:

Your labeling an entire city as 'rabidly liberal' is not 'right'.

ididnt label an entire city anything. I said "mostly"
[/quote] You mean you think the majority of people who are liberal don't care about the safety and security of their home and family? [/quote] I dont think that at all, which is why i never said that. I think they are just so atched to the party line they cant see that strict gun control doesent make things safer for anyone but criminals.

Quote:

Really? Think for a minute Renault. Liberals are human. Conservatives are human. They have human needs, desires, etc. (Or maybe you think 'liberals' are not human.) ????

please stop putting words in my mouth and then attacking the words you put there. I'd like to believe youre better than that and it doesnt help your argument. How exaclty did you get from "chicago is mostly rabily liberal" to "liberals are not human?" thats a stretch, even for you.

Quote:

Crime is stupid - no matter where it raises it's ugly head. Crime and unethical behavior is no more stupid in Chicago than in Fayette County - but there is a difference in the education level, economics, the atmosphere, etc. in many parts of our country.

saying something is stupidly high or stupidly large is just a euphamisim for saying its a really big number. not an actual commentary of the intellegence of people.

Quote:

If the control of gun sales, and guns could solve our crime problem - we would have less crime in our country - but there are other factors to consider.

no, there really isint. either a law works and you keep it or it doesent and you get rid of it. you dont double down and make the law that doesnt work even stricter.

Quote:

However, the point is even though what was done in Chicago, Illinois was unconstitutional - if you can't understand why there were citizens who supported that action, you are not aware of a reality that is different from your reality.

again, there you go making assumptions about me. just because i dont want people to pass unconstitutional laws, I must not have the intelligence to see their "reality." Why cant they have the wit to see MY reality, that I like the constitution?

Quote:

But with your lack of knowledge and experience, you don't have the understanding to judge another's reality and enforce your lack of understanding in the solution of their problems.

and yet again, you accuse me of judging others without knowledge of their situation and yet that is precisely what you have done to me in your comment repeatedly. Im not trying to enforce my will upon anybody. On the contrary, I just want to keep people like chicago liberals from enforcing their will upon me and talking away the rights the constitution says i have.

Quote:

But one who is 'judgmental' should at least try to learn about some of the problems that exist in the environment of others.

I hope you are open to taking your own advice.

Quote:

I feel that if this country has the brain power to go to the moon, etc., we have the brain power to continue to make our written Constitution relevant to the 21st Century. (That means it is necessary for citizens to elect leaders who have the ability to truly represent citizens in 'government'. Our politics in 'democracies' have almost made truly intelligent, ethical men and women avoid serving - and that is the real tragedy of the 21st Century. But we continue to have 'stupid' laws on the books because we continue to elect stupid legislators (Couny, State, and National) It appears their goal is to get elected and exert power - rather than serve their constituents.

on this i fell you and i may think the same. we should discuss my ideas for fixing that problem sometime.

Davids mom
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Renault
Quote:

liberal/progressives are almost universally on the side of brutally strict gun control, even when facts and statistics

Please site the brutally strict gun control that you are referring to. Thanks.

renault314
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Davids mom - seriously, have you not been reading the thread?

S. Lindsay and myself have cited numerous examples just in this conversation. scroll up a bit. But to save you the trouble, I'll point out again that until recently citizens in Chicago and Oak Park Il and residents of D.C. were NOT ALLOWED TO OWN HANDGUNS AT ALL. Not even in your own home. PERIOD. END OF STORY. If thats not brutally strict gun control I'm really not sure what else I can say. It would still be that way had they not taken it to the supreme court and gotten those laws overturned. As it is, good luck getting a concealed carry permit in those places. It just makes no sense. You have to have a clean criminal record to buy a handgun or to request a "cc" permit. There is an old latin saying, "Abusus non tollit usum" Translation: "Abuse is no argument against proper use", legal phrase meaning that just because something can be abused there is no reason for putting an end to its legitimate use. But try explaining that to a liberal. Drugs kill people when abused, but they want to legalize that everywhere. Cars kill people when abused, but no ones talking about taking those away. People get stabbed with knives, but I doubt thats on the U.N. small arms treaty list. Why the inconsitiency?

Davids mom
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Renault - Chicago guns

That was found unconstitutional! How were your 'rights' not protected? How is government not working for you in this issue? Was your voice not heard? Points made on 'blogs' ( even yours) are not facts. Thanks! We both still have our guns - and there is no effort from this administration to take them away! With all the scare tactics used by false statements - Obama is president! If you and others on the far right want to walk down the street carrying an assault weapon, fine. You may be OK in Fayette County, (although I doubt it), but other citizens in this country may object.

renault314
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Davids mom- chicago guns
Davids mom wrote:

That was found unconstitutional! How were your 'rights' not protected? How is government not working for you in this issue?

The Governement was the one who passed the unconstitutional law in the first place. They were not working for me on this issue, or you. It was a private citizen that took the law to the supreme court, A matter they would never have taken on had it not been for the citizens actions.

Quote:

We both still have our guns - and there is no effort from this administration to take them away!

For now. No effort from this administration? Obama supported the handgun ban in Chicago when he was a senator. Do you think he magically wont try to do something about guns now that he's a two term president and has nothing to lose?

Quote:

Obama is president!

So what? So was Nixon. Just becasue youre president doesnt make you infallable, perfect or always right.

Quote:

If you and others on the far right want to walk down the street carrying an assault weapon, fine. You may be OK in Fayette County, (although I doubt it), but other citizens in this country may object.

I have never felt the need to walk down the street with an assault weapon. There you go again putting words in other peoples mouths and then attacking something I never said. I DO however, want the right to own one if I choose. If other people object to that, who cares? I have a constitutional right to do it. If someone told you that they "objected" to opionated back women voting and owning property, what would you say to them? probably the same thing I say to people who "object" to me owning a gun. SO what? Its my right, get over it and stop trying to take my rights away.

renault314
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davids mom- previous refrences

see post 129-135 in this thread.

G35 Dude
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Assault weapons
Quote:

The whole point of the 2nd was to allow ordinary citizens to be able to protect themselves FROM gov't soldiers. Today, soldiers get assault weapons, so citizens should too.

In Switzerland when a man reaches 19 he is "constricted" (tested) for military service. 80% are inducted. At that time they are issued their military equipment which includes an assault rifle. After a year of active service they are basically reassigned to reserve service and sent home with all of their equipment which they are required to take care of and stay current on the use of. Until the age of 32 they are in the equivalent of our reserves subject to be called up if needed. As a result about 75% of all homes there have an assault rifle in them issued by the government. And their violent crime rate is one of the lowest in the world. Go figure!

Davids mom
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Deleted

.

Georgia Patriot
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Obama Benghazi Stand Down Order

Will the false narrative of the youtube video buy the administration enough time to get past the election?

Obama was watching and is probably the one who gave the order to "stand down" http://dailycaller.com/2012/10/31/gingrich-rumor-says-networks-have-whit...

Did this General get fired for trying to help? http://unspy.wordpress.com/2012/10/29/rogue-u-s-general-arrested-for-ign... -GP

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Petraeus and Libya

Now we know why Petraeus helped this administration spread the false narrative of the video being the cause of the Libya murders. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/11/09/lt_col_ralph_peters_on... GP

MYTMITE
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Four days after the election and I open my copy of the AJC and

on Page 1 above the fold is the story of Petraeus' extra-marital affair, then I turn to Page 2 and the headlines "Pentagon Outlines Response to Libya Attack" which goes on to say that Panetta and his top adviser was notified of the attack about 50 minutes after it started as they were walking into a previously scheduled meeting with the President. It then took more than 15 hours AfTER the attack was over for the first military unit to arrive. Says a lot about how we value those who serve our country while in harm's way doesn't it? The anniversary of 9/11, terrorist groups threatening attacks and we have our consulates so poorly guarded. Sad, sad, situation and even sadder that this information was kept from the American people until after the election. Would it have made a difference? Maybe yes, maybe no--but we will never know will we?

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Petraeus to Testify before Congress?

Congressman Trey Gowdy says he will, wonder how long before Obama asserts "Executive Privilege"?

Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-SC) “The fact that he’s resigned and had an affair has nothing to do with whether he will be subpoenaed to Congress. I hope we don’t have to subpoena a four star general and a former CIA director. I would hope he would come voluntarily but if he won’t he will be subpoenaed. And none of what happened today is an offense to a subpoena… He’s either a witness in our case in chief or he’s gonna be a rebuttal witness if Susan Rice and others blame him for their failure of intelligence and failure of information. But there is no way we can get to the bottom of Benghazi without David Petraeus.” -GP

moelarrycurly
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GP - Executive Privilege

Probably assert it on Wed. Rumor has it BO is going to "address the nation".

MYTMITE
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GP, do you think we will ever get to the bottom of this mess?

One way or another it will be glossed over--either Executive Privilege will be invoked 'for the safety of our nation' or our former fair haired four star general will be thrown to the wolves. Wonder if this is the first affair or the first after CIA appt or just first one that was of value to the powers that be?

Georgia Patriot
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MYTMITE

How long do you think this administration has known about the affair?

Having that knowledge and hiding it would be one powerful card to play if you ever needed it, like maybe helping cover something up?

Makes me wonder what they have on John Roberts.

I never thought I would say this but I have out-lived our Constitution. -GP

MYTMITE
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Does make you wonder and are there two women in question not

just the one, Broadwell. Supposedly it came to light with Broadwell harassing the other unnamed woman. Bet it has been going on for some time and they have just been biding their time. Now the deputy will be the one before the hearing committee--how convenient. Also, with this smear, Petraeus will never run for President. Politics is one dirty business and it seems to get dirtier and dirtier. It really looks like our country has out lived our Constitution.

AtHomeGym
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MTM, Petraeus & Politics

Petraeus never had any political ambition. It's a sad affair, from Benghazi to Bedroom.

Georgia Patriot
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FBI helped Obama

By delaying the release of the info http://www.theblaze.com/stories/fbi-source-petraeus-case-held-until-afte...

USDA withheld surge in Food stamps info to help Obama http://www.infowars.com/foodstamps-surge-by-most-in-one-year-to-new-all-...

How far has the cancer spread, who can we trust? -GP

rolling stone
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Obama's election assistance

Mitt Romney was the most influential help that Obama received, with considerable assistance from the Tea Party.

Davids mom
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Assistance for Obama

God bless Romney and Rove.

Congratulations to Obama's ground game.

Georgia Patriot
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Congratulations DM

Obama's reelection will surely accelerate the collapse. -GP

S. Lindsey
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He is certainly not wasting time GP...

...Already endorsed the UN's Small Arms Treaty. (Watch out for this one)

Got rid of Patreaus...
Got rid of Hillary...
Holder is leaving as well as Geitner...
Effectively set the news cycle away from Benghazi..

I bet if it was possible to really make us look the other way these guys would be being fitted for cement overshoes.

Georgia Patriot
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Rolling Rock

Obama won, the election is over, enjoy the next 4 years, congratulations.

The subject I am trying to bring to light is government corruption and deceit, hence posting under Libya and Lies. -GP

Georgia Patriot
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Did Obama know month's ago?
moelarrycurly
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Closed Hearing beginning

this Thursday, followed by additional hearings. Sen. Saxby Chambliss is the Vice Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee that will run this set of hearings on Libya.

http://www.intelligence.senate.gov/

http://intelligence.senate.gov/press/record.cfm?id=337850

BO leaves 2 days later for 3 day trip to Myanmar, Thailand and Cambodia. Of course.

Then, the big rush to get out of town for Thanksgiving.

Georgia Patriot
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Benghazi Prison?

Did Petraeus divulge secrets while "under the desk"? Curiouser and curiouser, as we go down the rabbit hole. http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2012/11/did-petraeus-mistress-revea... -GP

AtHomeGym
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GP & Benghazi 'Prison'

I think Broadwell was dilusional and seeking fame she did not deserve. There is no logical reason for the CIA to take a prisoner there. More smoke & mirrors.

Georgia Patriot
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Benghazi Murders

Most of the smoke and mirrors are coming from the administration, starting with the Youtube BS diversion.

My best guess at this time is the murders are somehow tied to weapons we were supplying and possibly wanted back (Stingers?)or redistributed?

It seems we (the US) are involved in overthrowing countries with ZERO thought on what will fill the resulting void. Look at what we now have in Egypt after the wonderful Arab Spring: http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/11/12/249092.html

Mubarak and Gaddafi were much better than AL-quaeda! GP

S. Lindsey
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GP the cover up has begun..

... they are taking down Petraeus and discrediting him so that if he speaks up he will be dismissed.

This sad affair will be swept under the rug just like Fast and Furious.

We have no representation in Government any longer.. it is a law unto itself now.

The Republic is dead... we are now a Social Democracy. From there your guess is as good as mine...

Georgia Patriot
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Petraeus Cover-Ups?

Just how many cover-ups are going on?

Listen to this: http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/11/11/Ron-Kessler-on-Petraeus... -GP

AtHomeGym
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GP & Benghazi

I believe recovering Stingers is the reason the two former Seals were under contract.

Georgia Patriot
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AHG Seals/Coverup

The two Seals were undoubtedly CIA.

The Benghazi operation was very undermanned I think due to this administrations desire to keep secret from the American people what was actually going on there.

Our Ambassadors' repeated cries for help were unanswered to maintain the cover. He was essentially sacrificed. -GP

Georgia Patriot
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Benghazi Prison Video Yanked

Hoped you watched it yesterday because all copies are now gone, including Wayback links. Must have been true, CIA was holding Libyan Militants in Benghazi which is not allowed under US law. More corruption from this administration.

Now it is being reported Hillary can not testify, seems she is busy wine tasting with friends in Australia,... yes wine tasting. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/exclusive-us-secretary-of-stat...

Are our Congressman and Senators going to allow this administration to operate above the law without consequences? -GP

Robert W. Morgan
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Well of course they are going to "allow" it - spineless Repubs

They are all about reaching across the aisle and compromise and never seem to get a clue that if this stuff were happening under a Republican, the Dems would be screaming impeachment. It is a one-way street with these people and the sooner Republicans wake up and realize it, the better off the entire country will be. Romney tries to play nice and be above the fray and Obama takes him down Chicago-style.

Maybe the Republicans should start playing hardball when Kerry's name comes up for a Cabinet post. Or maybe when Bill Clinton gets nominated to the Supreme Court to replace Justice Stevens. Or, if you want to really be extreme about it - maybe have the House pass a budget for the first time in years. What a sorry, sorry group of people.

PTC Observer
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RWM - Isn't

a democracy a reflection of its people?

Robert W. Morgan
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Yes a Democracy is a reflection of its people, PTCO

Actually we were not really a democracy until last week, but God knows we are now. We crossed that line and we are a mob in search of a cause. Of course the mob already knows what the solution is - being a welfare state, So, we are there and yes indeed our new Democracy is a reflection of its people. I am opting out. No more taxes paid in - only SS and Medicare being taken out (you all do know that is just me gettin' my own money back, doncha know?)

My two guns are now joined by 2 more- a shotgun with 5 and an automatic weapon that I hope I will never have to use outside the range, but will if confronted. The wife is going to the range tomorrow to learn how to handle the handguns. Hope we never have the need, but if so she would back me up.

Joe Kawfi
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Lock and Load, Robert

I'm with you on this Robert. It's just a matter of time before the mob decides that they want to begin confiscating what doesn't belong to them by force. obama's dictatorial style of redistribution of wealth might take too long to them. As the unemployment rate continues to rise as a result of obama's policies, people will turn to crime to survive.

Yep, time to buy a couple of more guns and keep one loaded in every room of the house. It's no longer a matter of 'if', it's a matter of 'when'.

S. Lindsey
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Americans Chose Socialism...

A very good article that explains much...

http://janmorganmedia.com/2012/11/americans-chose-socialism/

btw- Food Storage, Durable Goods, Barter Items and of course Guns and Ammo... Got mine a long time ago... We are out of time.

AtHomeGym
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RWM & Guns

I'm sure you meant "SEMI-automatic" NOT 'automatic'. You don't want the ATF knocking on your door!

Robert W. Morgan
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What's the ATF going to do - give me another gun?

I guess they will if I promise to take it to Mexico. But, I will simply pass on that. I am into minimal government contact from now on. I do think if the thugs have automatic weapons, I should be able to have one as well - although I am much more comfortable and proficient one shot at a time from 200+ yards with a scope. And close up - the shotgun will be the best defensive weapon.

moelarrycurly
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Liberal Press Distraction on Benghazi

Already, the NY press is spitting out the affair details. Not because they pertain to Obama's govt. letting 4 people get assassinated, but to distract the public from those facts that have not come out yet.

What will be the headlines going forward? Who knew what when on 9/11/12 during attack OR who did what to who in military sex triangle?

Sadly, I think we know which the press will grab onto and the public will gobble up.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ap-source-target-emails-petraeu...

lion
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Scandal

Now this is sorta unbelievable but apparently true:

The most respected former U.S. General and now Director of the CIA has an affair with his biographer (woman #1). He decides to resign when this is found out.

The title of the biography is "All In."

The biographer it turns out was jealous of another woman in Florida who apparently has flirted with the General and reportedly "touched him inappropriately under the table."

This Florida woman (woman #2) gained some notice when she and her twin sister both dressed to the "nines" appeared on the Food Network to demonstrate their skills at cooking alligator.

General #1's successor in Afghanistan, for reasons yet to be determined, sent thousands of e-mails to woman #2 in Florida. His confirmation as Commander of U.S. forces in Europe has now been delayed.

This all came to light when woman #1 sent threatening e-mails to woman #2 who told this to her friend, an FBI agent. The FBI agent felt he was close to woman #2 because he had sent her photos of himself shirtless to impress her. The FBI agent, with his shirt on, told the story of threatening e-mails to his superiors in the FBI and Congressional sources.

In the background is Holly, the loyal and faithful wife of General #1. Woman #1 and woman #2 are both married with children.

And this all came to light over Veteran's Day weekend.

We hope that the families involved will resolve all these problems in time to have a Happy Thanksgiving.

Who could make up such a story??

PTC Observer
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Lion

Stephen King

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