Obama must straighten out his mess

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Davids mom
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They?

and Us? I think Christianity is a great religion. A good man worked alongside the Libyan people representing Americans. He worked with those Libyans who were sick and tired of a dictator - and encouraged democracy. Not all of our decisions at the ballot box have been correct (Nixon) for example - but that is an outcome when one lives in a democracy. Islam is a great religion - as is Christianity - regardless of the actions of some Muslims and some Christians. There was a 'westerner' who killed innocent children in a federal building a few years ago. Are all 'westerners' to be equated with his actions? Should all Germans be equated with the actions of the Nazi's? Just asking.

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Islamofacists Get Off The Hook Because Of A Good Man?

In July of 2010, the University of Maryland commissioned Zogby to poll the people of Egypt. Here are a few of their findings:
•85% of Egyptians hold an unfavorable attitude toward the U.S.
•87% of Egyptians have no confidence in the U.S.
•92% of Egyptians believe the U.S. is one of two nations that is the greatest threat to them (the other nation the Egyptian people hate is Israel)
•52% of Egyptians hold an unfavorable opinion of American people
•65% of Egyptians believe that Islamic clergy must play a greater role in the Egyptian political system
•79% percent of Egyptians believe that it would be positive if Iran is able to acquire nuclear weapons

Remember DM. Zogby is the polling group that takes its marching orders from the DNC. So these are YOUR numbers. I'm sure mine would be slightly higher.

With your line of thinking we should have never conquered the Nazi's in WWII but rather let their murderous and evil movement prosper in defense of the few who would might stand against those attrocities.

Quote:

Not all of our decisions at the ballot box have been correct (Nixon) for example

I agree with you DM. Not all our decisions at the ballot box have been correct (Obama) for example.

What pathetic party shrew you are. Nixon is starting to look like a saint compared to this lying and corrupt administration. See you at the polls in November along with all your dead voting friends.......

NUK_1
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...

....

NUK_1
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DM: They are ignorant trash, pure and simple

I don't see Christians running around slaughtering people due to the release of "The Last Temptation of Christ," "Life of Brian," or the wildly popular "Book of Mormon" on Broadway.

I'm sorry that these losers cannot stand to have their "prophet" denigrated but it's not our job to censor free speech and throw away the Constitution because some street trash in the Mideast uses anything that offends their very tender fundamentalist feelings as an excuse to kill.

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We aren't talking about Westerners here..

Why am I not surprised you tried to change the subject.

Fact is, we cannot have other countries overrunning our Embassies and killing our people. That cannot stand.

Davids mom
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You guys

are expected to argue your point. It is interesting what you don't address. All Germans Nazis? I think you got the point I shared. I agree - and it is being investigated - why aren't/weren't our Embassy's better defended by the local law enforcement? Just a reminder, Hillary Clinton is Secretary of State, not Defense. It is very important to familiarize oneself with all opinions - those that you agree with, those that you don't. Boy - this is a terrible time for USA foreign relations. Gallup has Obama ahead of Romney; Rasmussen has Romney ahead of Obama. Evidently most posting here feel that Obama does not look presidential. On other sites, the opinion is different. God bless America for freedom of expression/speech. Citizens of the Arab world cannot understand this important freedom that we cherish - for in a dictatorship, it is possible that a 'video' like the one that denigrated the leader of the Islamic faith would have been severely dealt with if it did not represent the feeling of the administration/dictator. There are those in this country and throughout the world who accurately predicted that this would happen - and continue to try to maximize on this hateful situation. What is terrible, is that the work of the young statesman who worked so closely with the Libyan people during their revolution was killed along side heroic Seals. The reporters on the ground are reporting that many of those in the streets are what I characterized as 'thugs'. I still question the connection between the writer/producer? of the video and the minister who burnt the Islamic holy books. The search for 'truth' continues.

Davids mom
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SpyGLASS
Quote:

Why am I not surprised you tried to change the subject.

Not trying to change subject - just 'walking a mile in another's shoes'. Sometimes it is wise to know/assume how one will act in a situation. There was rage when we were attacked - bombings of Federal Building and 9/11. Our culture/history makes us preditable. After the shock and the grief - we did not riot - and only a few turned on an entire religion/people who were 'different'. It was predictable how those of the fundamentalist Muslim faith would react to the disgusting video. Just saying.

Spyglass
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So "disgust" entitles them to kill our Citizens?

You're radio edit.

Davids mom
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Spy - disgust justifies killing?

Your interpretation of my words - not my words.

S. Lindsey
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Progressives always want to blame others....

.....for consequences of their own actions. Remember all of the progressives here last year that stated emphatically
that the Muslim Brotherhood was simply a secular non violent group that just wanted th help their people? That they didn't want power....nope not even a little bit.
DM, Sniffle, JeffC et al......

No we were told by the Obama team that they were the good guys.... Even invited them to the Whitehouse for a little goats milk summit.

But now when their ill conceived plans literally explode in their faces they are not to blame.... Nope it was a YOU TUBE video that did it.

I wonder who Obama and Hillary wants to talk to next and make them love us?

Georgia Patriot
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Lindsey/Movie/Attacks

I submit that there is a good possibility that this so-called "movie" was filmed to excuse/cause EXACTLY what is happening now, possibly by someone or a group that will gain somehow in the mid-east, possibly even someone with ties to the Muslim Brotherhood or Al-qaeda?

Or maybe it is all just coincidence, you know like Helicopter Ben throwing money out the window right before the November elections? - GP

Georgia Patriot
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Movie Financer

Looks like someone or some group paid this scumbag to make the film: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/anti-muslim-filmmaker-behind-innocence-o...

It will be interesting to follow this and see where it really started. GP

Citizen_Steve
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CNN reported the movie maker

CNN reported the movie maker may be from Egypt.

Davids mom
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S. Lindsey

Representatives of the Japanese government were in the White House before the bombing of Pearl Harbor. I prefer 'talking' to 'killing'. Most Americans do. The Japanese greatly underestimated our capability of defending ourselves. Our country and military leaders have been able to maintain a conversation without giving up 'leverage'.It's too bad that too many of the current 'leaders' did not learn the lessons of the Marshall Plan.

Marshall Plan

Quote:

A program by which the United States gave large amounts of economic aid to European countries to help them rebuild after the devastation of World War II. It was proposed by the United States secretary of state, General George C. Marshall.

Now it's called 'Nation Building' - and we have determined that is not worth the effort to assist those countries devastated by war. Interesting.

S. Lindsey
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Well DM when the Japanese start...

.... telling me I have to worship the Emperor at the threat of death and then send kids to blow up other kids then I might worry about them until then we live in 2012 not 1940.

I know how you love to live in the past BUT we have to deal with the threat that lives today.

It has been obvious to anyone with half a brain these fanatics where and are dangerous but yet you guys just welcome them with open arms even while killing Americans all over the Globe.

Stupidity thy name is Political Correctness.

Davids mom
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Stupidity - SL

Is hating and threatening an entire religion. We stripped the Japanese of all their 'power'. But assisted them in rebuilding. Only a fool refuses to learn the lessons of history. One reason the distrust of Westerners in the Middle East? The Crusades. Did you have anything to do with that? Do you think that 'distrust' in 2012 is intelligent? Do you know anything about that or post WWII? There was a difference between Tokyo Rose and our next door neighbors in California. All Arabs are not Bin Laden; all Germans are not Hitler. Wisdom at dealing with leaders who will do us harm is necessary. Hate expressed towards an entire ethnic group - even our own Americans, is ignorant.

kcchiefandy
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I agree, generally, DM...

...BUT I don't remember any Japanese-Americans who provided recon photos ( as 2 GA Tech American-born Muslims did), or a American Muslim who tried to sneak a dirty bomb across the Canadian border, or a naturalized American, who is Muslim that tried to ignite an 'underwear bomb' on an airplane, or six Muslim immigrants that hijacked 2 jets and flew them into the Twin Towers, or 3-4 Muslims that tried to attack Ft. Dix, NJ, then the Muslim orgs that have proven ties to providing funds to overseas Islamic groups, and I'll just stop there. Do you see a pattern, DM? Please do cite any other group, religion, etc...that has been so patently violent in attacking the US. Yes, MOST are peaceful; those who live & work here like regular, normal Americans, but there is a cancerous vein in this RELIGION that has sparked a JIHAD AGAINST OUR NATION, and YES, they have EARNED AND DESERVE OUR GREATER SCRUTINY. Sorry if your S. CAL PC feelings are bruised; maybe if a Jihadist blows up your church you'll have a different viewpoint.

Davids mom
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KC

You're young. A relatives' church was blown up as well as a relatives' home. I was taught to distrust the actions of individuals - not an entire race or religion. (I do admit until I lived in GA for two years, I still had a fear of white men in pick-up trucks.). If there were NO Japanese Americans who posed a problem to US security, according go your memory, why the internment camps? Timothy McVey killed children in a federal building. He paid the ultimate price. We didn't put all white militia men in 'camp'. ALL ARABS are not our enemy - just like all Germans were not our enemy. We will need the service of our Arab American citizens for intelligence and protection, just as we needed the services of Japanese Americans during WWII. The rhetoric is dangerous - lumping all Arabs together - even Arab Americans.

kcchiefandy
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And, DM...

...white supremacist groups have the same scrutiny on them, too, thanks to this/these nutballs. As said before, MOST Middle Easterners are great Americans, but there ARE fringe elements that ARE very VIOLENT and DESERVE the extra scrutiny, JUST AS the KKK earned the eventual scrutiny of the FBI. NO WHERE DID I 'LUMP' ARABS TOGETHER; READ MY POST AGAIN.

grizz
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KC

They are calling for a holy war against America. They have clamed that there are a a million bin Ladens. Their own holy book calls for Muslims to "kill the infidels".

That is their warning to us. If we don't heed that warning and act on it then we are foolish. Just look what happened when the Obama administration didn't heed the warning that the embassy would be attacked.
Now they blame a video. sad.

PTC Observer
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KC - DM

She is likely quoting some one else, she gets confused at times.

Seniors are always doing things like that. ;-)

kcchiefandy
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It is, Grizz/PTCO...

...very frustrating when my statement(s) are completely ignored, as DM did saying 'lumping all Arabs together...' when I had JUST said MOST are great Americans. Maybe when they maim or kill someone close to her she'll believe there's a cancerous vein within that religion, even here in the good 'ol US. She's lived through the 'KKK' days here, that men can & will do evil acts for what they believe? Why can she not believe there are Islamic threats that reside here, when they showed themselves and what they're willing to do over and over again in the past few years?!??!

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KCChief - DM

Don't get too frustrated, DM does things like this. She takes things out of context, quotes other people's posts and attributes them to you, and rambles a lot. She also enjoys calling people names when she has difficulty expressing herself. I think generally, she has a good heart, but her mind? Well, her posts speak for her mind and the depth of her perception of reality.

You can be your own judge on this, but don't get frustrated, it's just DM.

Davids mom
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PTCO

May you one day enjoy the privilege of 'senior status'. There is only one alternative!

PTC Observer
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DM - Perhaps

If I am lucky, and the creek don't rise! ;-)

Davids mom
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KC

'Most' was used a lot in the past in the US. But the practice in society was to make laws (Jim Crow) that affected ALL. I was carefully taught not to fear ALL - but it was difficult when hearing rhetoric that was anti-this and anti-that when it came to voting, housing and education. What I'm trying to get you to see is the power of WORDS that express fears. There is a thought that goes along with the saying 'Most are OK' - that thought is we have to be wary of some of 'them'. Basing this thought on ethnicity, race, religion rather than actual actions is wrong in my opinion - for I've seen the result of such 'thoughts'.

kcchiefandy
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I understand, DM...

...I'll not use 'most'; I'll suffice it to say 'Many Arab Americans have commited, or attempted to commit, jihadic acts against citizens of the United States. Many Arab organizations and businesses in the US have funneled money to support domestic and world-wide jihad. NOT many other demographics in the US are doing this. We need many of our law enforcers to keep a wary eye on this population.' My opinion is based on the FACT of who has done, or attempted to do, these things. We DO have to be wary of some.

Of course, I have no answer for where that nutball 'Jihad Jane' came from...! When the Amish start their suicide bombing campaign, I'll stop worrying about the Semites.

Davids mom
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Kc

Did you know that Steve Jobs was an Arab American? You probably have done your own research, but a more truthful word to use IMO is 'some". There are a number of proud, contributing Arab Americans in the US. We need to look for those in our country who will harm us, and they are not all of one ethnic group.

Take a look:
http://www.aaiusa.org/pages/demographics/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_American

http://academic.udayton.edu/race/06hrights/waronterrorism/Arabs01.htm

kcchiefandy
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Ok, DM...

...I'll use 'some'! That's interesting about Jobs; he looked normal to me! ;-)

Your Dayton link is a weak link to the current situation in the US; no one is planning Arab internment camps for US citizens. Even at that I don't recall any major violent attempts to kill Americans by US-born or naturalized Japanese; I do, however, have MANY instances of American born or naturalized Arab-descent citizens/residents who HAVE killed and maimed, or have tried to attack US citizens.

I don't implicate the whole demographic, but again, they have commited violent acts and spew anti-American rhetoric within their population (just like the KKK or neo-Nazis); they ALL need a wary eye kept on them.

Davids mom
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KC

LOL. Keep your eyes open! Like you, I don't recall any mention of Japanese American violence - but I had classmates who returned to school after being interned. Some of them had relatives who fought in the war as US citizens. I'm still in touch with a number of them. All have been contributing, loyal citizens.

Davids mom
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KC

Spent a little time looking for this:

Quote:

I don't implicate the whole demographic, but again, they have commited violent acts and spew anti-American rhetoric within their population

but can't find it. Please share a link. Thanks.

Davids mom
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Deleted by poster

.

Get Smart
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This president

This president is simply incapable. Send him back to Chicago. Rahm can use the former community organizer to help to deal with the teacher's union who is about on the verge to proclaim the war on poverty has been a big lie.

Davids mom
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Just some thoughts

The quotes in this post are from an article in The Blaze (Sept. 13) I have no idea of their ‘leaning’ but found this thought provoking.

Quote:

Google Inc., which owns YouTube, pulled down the video Wednesday in Egypt, citing a legal complaint. It was still accessible in the U.S. and other countries.

Many of you are well traveled – and well aware that in the urban areas of Arab countries, many young people and those who appear professional have ‘smart phones’ and are aware of Youtube.

Quote:

Pastor Terry Jones of Gainesville, Fla., who sparked outrage in the Arab world when he burned Qurans on the ninth anniversary of 9/11, said he spoke with the movie’s director on the phone Wednesday and prayed for him. Jones said he has not met the filmmaker in person but added that the man contacted him a few weeks ago about promoting the movie. Jones and others who have dealt with the filmmaker said Wednesday that Bacile was hiding his real identity

Why this connection?

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Though it doesn’t appear relevant in the situation, The Daily Beast points out that Nakoula had been a registered Democrat from 2002-2008 but changed his political affiliation to “American Independent.

From Reference.com

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The American Independent Party was founded on July 8, 1967 by Bill and Eileen Shearer. It is considered to be a right-wing political party with Paleoconsevatism as its ideology.

From Reference.com

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Paleoconservatism (sometimes shortened to paleo or paleocon when the context is clear) is a term for an anti-communist and anti-authoritarian right-wing movement in the United States that stresses tradition, civil society and classical federalism, along with familial, religious, regional, national and Western identity. Chilton Williamson, Jr. describes paleoconservatism as "the expression of rootedness: a sense of place and of history, a sense of self derived from forebears, kin, and culture — an identity that is both collective and personal.” Paleoconservativism is not expressed as an ideology and its adherents do not necessarily subscribe to any one party line.
Paleoconservatives in the 21st century often focus on their points of disagreement with neoconservatives, especially on issues like immigration, affirmative action, U.S. funding of Israeli military actions, foreign wars, and welfare. They also criticize social democracy, which some refer to as the therapeutic managerial state, the welfare-warfare state or polite totalitarianism. They see themselves as the legitimate heir to the American conservative tradition.
Paul Gottfried (and possibly A. F. Seabrook as well) is credited with coining the term in the 1980s. He says the word originally referred to various Americans, such as traditionalist Catholics and agrarian Southerners, who turned to anticommunism during the Cold War. They then began referring to the conservative opposition as neoconservatism.

The somber return of the four Americans killed in Libya was sobering. What/who is playing on the sentiments of Americans and Arabs in order to achieve some 'goal' which depends on the planning of disruptive activities on 9/11?

S. Lindsey
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Other thoughts..

"Then-Senator Barack Obama makes the case for an Obama Presidency on November 21, 2007 by saying he is uniquely qualified to bring stability to America's relationships in the Muslim world because he lived in an Islamic country during his youth and his half-sister is Muslim."

"Carney: Protests not directed at the United States"
The american flag is burnt by protesters in front of embassy in London
Protesters smash windows, set fires in U.S. embassy in Tunis
Violent protests in Tunisia, Yemen, Sudan and elsewhere as crowds target US, UK and German embassies.

Feb 2011.. "Director of National Intelligence James Clapper raised some eyebrows today at a House Intelligence Committee hearing when he called described the Muslim Brotherhood as a “largely secular” organization."
" “The term ‘Muslim Brotherhood,’” Clapper said, “is an umbrella term for a variety of movements, in the case of Egypt, a very heterogeneous group, largely secular, which has eschewed violence and has decried Al Qaeda as a perversion of Islam… They have pursued social ends, a betterment of the political order in Egypt"

Muslim Brotherhood: "Hurting the feelings of one and a half billion Muslims cannot be tolerated, and the people’s anger and fury for their faith is invariably predictable, often unstoppable"

How do you reason with people willing to KILL just because you "HURT their feelings"?

"The Israeli official, who asked not to be identified because he wasn’t authorized to speak on the matter, said that Israel approached the White House two weeks ago to see if it would be possible for Netanyahu to meet Obama, as he has on every other visit to the U.S.
The response was that the president’s schedule wouldn’t permit a meeting, the official said today in a telephone interview. Obama is in the middle of campaigning for a second term in the Nov. 6 election."

But yet he had the time to play a round of golf and go to a Beyouce concert

This Administration and President is clueless....

PTC Observer
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President Obama's Speech

today on the tarmac at Andrews was both moving and true, it is too bad for those Americans serving overseas and for our country that we have such a man as our President.

The Presidency is no place for OJT as we have sadly found out in the last four years. It is not Mr. Obama's fault, it is our own, it is our failure because he is our President.

Georgia Patriot
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Obama's Qualifications ?

Being a Community Organizer qualified Obama for POTUS!

But I must say Obama is as qualified for the Presidency as Hillary is for Sec of Defense.

Hillary was warned of the Libya attack beforehand and did NOTHING!

There were no Marines there and the private security was unarmed! http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/09/14/Colonel-Says-Hillary-...

The Marines guarding our embassy in Egypt are possibly unarmed as well! http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2930502/posts

The entire current administration is unqualified ! GP

S. Lindsey
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GP you add this new scandal to fast and furious...

...and a clear pattern of malice and incompetence becomes obvious.

These people do not care not one iota about our Men and Women in Uniform including LEO's.

Obama's derision for them was made clear with his comment "The Police acted stupidly" even though he also admitted he didn't have all the facts.. He and his Progressive buddies are infamous for tarring our troops.

Barack Obama, our troops in Afghanistan are "just air-raiding villages and killing civilians"

Rep. Jack Murtha, who came on our radar screen as a “hawk” (although always an opponent of the Iraq War) who called for rapid pullout of troops from Iraq on the basis that our mission has failed, has told the press that the Marines have killed Iraqi innocents in cold blood.

Nope never apologized for that one did he... Since it was proven false he just kept saying it...

Georgia Patriot
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Obama Administration Incompetent?

I don't think it is as much incompetence as it is CONTEMPT for America!

Watch 2016 and it all makes sense.

Dinesh D'Souza lays bare the roots of Obama's rage, Dinesh is also a Christian Apologetic and has several other books out (which I have read), there are rumors his next film will be based on Christ.

May God help us all. -GP

S. Lindsey
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I did GP

and you are correct it is if not a eye opener for some of us it does confirm what we suspected at least.

Davids mom
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Follow the money!
Quote:

How do you reason with people willing to KILL just because you "HURT their feelings"?

If you can't reason with them - one may find it advantageous to 'use' them.

There are those who know/can predict the response of fundamentalist/radicals of all or any faith or ideology. Knowing the reaction of persons you can't reason with should help one to be prepared to deal with the predictable reaction. Someone paid for this video. . which was produced in California by a man who had a great deal of debt. Follow the money! I don't think this administration is 'clueless'. Some are under investigation for the attack on the Embassy in Libya; the Marines are on the ground; and this guy who ever he is, that produced this video will probably welcome being locked up for violating his probation. He is a target for EVERYBODY.

Georgia Patriot
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DM "Marines on the Ground"??

Where were the Marines when Chris Stevens was viciously SLAUGHTERED by MURDERERS?

The only guards in Libya were PRIVATE security as required by our STATE DEPARTMENT. There was one former Navy Seal on site but as required by OUR STATE DEPARTMENT he was UNARMED!!

Not only is this stupid and unacceptable it a BLATANTLY NEGLIGENT ACT and if intentional it is TREASONOUS!

My heart cries out for the family of Chris Stevens, a Patriot serving his country, may he Rest in Peace. -GP

Davids mom
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GP

If you would read, instead of 'react' - you would see where I have the same question.

From a post I made yesterday. I know - no one reads what I have to say - but I'm going to say it anyway. This board is just too, too slanted. However, the ideas expressed here are representative of American thought - not just Fayette County.

Quote:

Facts to be ascertained: Why not better security for our citizens in these countries? What was known before time: (Remember Pearl Harbor - someone knew the attack was coming - but not the 'right' people? What do you see as a consequence of 'full retaliation'?

Georgia Patriot
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DM BS
Davids mom wrote:
Quote:

How do you reason with people willing to KILL just because you "HURT their feelings"?

If you can't reason with them - one may find it advantageous to 'use' them.

There are those who know/can predict the response of fundamentalist/radicals of all or any faith or ideology. Knowing the reaction of persons you can't reason with should help one to be prepared to deal with the predictable reaction. Someone paid for this video. . which was produced in California by a man who had a great deal of debt. Follow the money! I don't think this administration is 'clueless'. Some are under investigation for the attack on the Embassy in Libya; the Marines are on the ground; and this guy who ever he is, that produced this video will probably welcome being locked up for violating his probation. He is a target for EVERYBODY.

Exactly where in the above did you ask the questions I have?

This Administration is either incompetent or treasonous, you will not admit it but logic dictates you must choose one.

OK, there is a third option, keep apologizing and waiting on your "Hope and Change". -GP

Davids mom
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GP Weren't these your questions?
Quote:

Where were the Marines when Chris Stevens was viciously SLAUGHTERED by MURDERERS?

The only guards in Libya were PRIVATE security as required by our STATE DEPARTMENT. There was one former Navy Seal on site but as required by OUR STATE DEPARTMENT he was UNARMED!!

Not only is this stupid and unacceptable it a BLATANTLY NEGLIGENT ACT and if intentional it is TREASONOUS!

My heart cries out for the family of Chris Stevens, a Patriot serving his country, may he Rest in Peace. -GP

I did ask the same questions in my post - and shared it here. I know, I know - you don't have time to read my posts. That's OK. I don't post just for you. . .just to share an opinion.

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GP: They had Libyan security forces

By all reports, when the action got hot and heavy, they fled. That doesn't surprise me at all. A bunch of cowards who are like illegals here that hate their own country's government but won't do a damn thing about it and instead run elsewhere is par for the course. It took several other countries helping the "rebels" overthrow a dictator because the sheeple there were pretty much content with their way of life already and simply don't know any better.

One of those countries and one of those people happened to be Christopher Stevens who had already risked his life to help Libyans gain a form of independence in the first place and they ran away like the losers they are when the stuff hit the fan. We're helping people like THAT? WHY?

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Nuk, GP & Security Forces At Our Libyan Consulate

SECSTATE approved Rules of Engagement sez: NO MARINES and the privately hired Libyan Sec Guards for external security HAD NO AMMO! We reached the height of Political Correctness and Insanity in one document--and signed the death warrants for those 4 Americans! Shame on SECSTATE! She got some really dumb advice or made horrible decisions or BOTH!

Georgia Patriot
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NUK Security

Not only did they flee but according to the wounded security office they also directed the assailants to the ambassador!

There was a reason there was a dictator in charge of Libya!

I have had about enough of this wonderful Arab Spring! -GP

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GP & Fleeing Security Forces

Don't think I'd stick around either if lead is flying and I don't have any ammo!

Georgia Patriot
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AHG

LOL, you are correct sir!

These were not peaceful demonstrators climbing over a fence, they had automatic weapons and RPG's!

Most like an Al Qaeda terrorist attack (excuse me, "foreign contingency"-LOL) to coincide with the 9/11 anniversary.

Our Ambassador was made into a living sacrifice by incompetents (or traitors). -GP

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AHG: Can't disagree with that either!

I'd be getting the hell out of dodge too.

The terrorists also attacked the alleged "safe house" a mile away at the same time, kind of indicating that there was some real inside knowledge and once again Americans got betrayed by so-called allies within.

Is this any better than the days of hiring a whole ton of organized mercenaries a la Blackwater to secure embassies and key personnel overseas? They had a habit of shooting first and asking questions later, but were pretty effective at what they did and a lot of it was this kind of work.

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Nuk, Libya & Egypt

What we did was trade stability for political correctness & political ideology and we were not prepared for the consequences. Diplomatic ignorance and an absence of operational planning. First Ambassador killed in 30 yrs. Absolutely no excuse for such stupid absence of what should be common-sense security precautions.

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Sudan says "no" to Marines

So much for fortifying that embassy. Just get the hell out and don't look back. The Sudan is a militant Islamist country of trash with a genocidal thirst anyway.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/15/us-protest-sudan-idUSBRE88E0FI...

Way past time for a foreign policy overhaul when you're not allowed to protect your own embassy which is considered to be "your soil," especially in a snakepit like the Sudan. What are the US interests in a place like Darfur besides keeping the religious freaks from killing each other as well as the humanitarian workers who naively are trying to bring these sub-humans into at least the 19th century?

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AHG - So true

this is so true AHG, the fact is the Obama administration is quite naive about the world in general and the economy in particular. Everything is measured by a "vision" of how the world should look but not how it actually operates. This man's executive abilities are measured by the poor results.

No one except the most inexperienced and inept would not prepare for these types of events in the wake of the civil unrest in these countries on 9/11. No one but the naive would expect that our embassies would not be under attack across the region. The absence of preparation above all else proves that this administration is in way over its head.

History is our teacher. Just when the Americans were about to drive to final victory in Vietnam, the North launched the Tet offensive in January 1968, thus galvanizing public opinion against the war and snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Americans were allowed the luxury of forgetting about the millions of Vietnamese that were left behind to face concentration camps and death. Millions more would suffer the scourge of the Pol Pot socialist gulags and killing fields.

In our current war we were in fact winning against the onslaught of radical Islam, our forces have taken the battle directly to the enemy. We have killed most of the al-Qaeda leadership. Our own government however has seen to it that the forces of radical Islam now have governments to support their cause. Just as the Carter Administration did with the Shah, Obama's "vision" of democracy will allow these forces to coalesce around state sponsored terrorist states. Now an entire generation of western youth will be wasted in a continuous war against the forces of evil. Americans will not have the luxury of washing their hands of it, because as we have seen on 9/11, they will take the war to us on our shores. In this war, there will only be victors and vanquished. The sooner we muster the courage to acknowledge this realization, the sooner we will be able to organize to win this prolonged struggle against the ideals of freedom and Western civilization.

When in the Middle East millions of women are treated as slaves and property by their "protector" men, there is no better illustration of how misguided we are as a nation, than to have a debate surrounding the "war on women" in this country. It is perfidious in the sublime to posture such a debate. Certainly any rational citizen can see what is before us.

We simply need to understand that we are fighting against ideas of darkness, hate and enslavement. A return to the 13th Century.

We can win this war only if we understand our enemy's intent...the replacement of individual freedom with a theocratic tyranny and it will be women that suffer the most if we lose. It is a war of ideas played out with the sword.

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Well said, PTCO

Well said indeed.

I have to wonder why the Dems with their "war on women" charge are so silent about how horribly treated women are outside of the Western world and how also the same party that is definitely for gay rights says not a peep about gays being killed in the same places for the "offense" of simply being gay? All silence on that front. Apparently, tolerance extends to killing and enslavement elsewhere but not here. It makes you wonder about their intentions within the US when they are so accepting elsewhere of incredible evil and intolerance.

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Sorry DM, it's not about one stupid filmmaker

There are likely millions of people right now who downloaded the Youtube clip of this really bad movie that are going to keep it on the Internet no matter what. They will keep uploading it anywhere they can, especially if others call for a "banning."There is a segment of the world population that believes "information wants to be free" and it indeed will be. Whether that comes from a group like WikiLeaks or a hacker group like "Anonymous" or just people who feel everyone has the right to decide on their own the merits of this film, a Bible burning, A Quran burning, whatever, the horse has left the barn and isn't coming back, no matter if it "offends" some group of crazies to the point of killing others.

It's the 21st Century and either the primitive oppressors of free thought, religion and treating others decently can either get with it or go it alone without US funding and military support.

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Filmmaker's Politics

Looks like he was a big Obama donor, check it out: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Hollywood/2012/09/15/Obama-Contribution-Ant...

Wonder who truly paid for the film?
Always follow the money. -GP

Davids mom
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GP

Solid facts from Breitbart? Thanks. Carefully worded journalism that has nothing to do with the title. Wow!

Check it out for yourself! Then take a look at the film personalities who have donated to Obama.

http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0oG7uGWvlRQs2UAGRxXNyoA?ei=UTF-8&fr...

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DM Breitbart

Andrew Breitbart was an American Patriot. -GP

Davids mom
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Andrew Breitbart

May he rest in peace.

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DM Agreed

He died far too young. -GP

Davids mom
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Nuk

INTERESTING:

Quote:

There are likely millions of people right now who downloaded the Youtube clip of this really bad movie that are going to keep it on the Internet no matter what.

I thought I understood you to believe that the ignorant neanderthals in the Arab world would not be able to do this.

Sorry for my misunderstanding.

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DM: It's not the "Arabs" that will keep it online

The Arabs ain't all that big on free speech and expression. Plenty of others around the globe are. Some of them may just do it to kick the hornet's nest while others feel it's their duty to spread "information" around the Internet to all.

Google/Youtube has already blocked Egypt, Libya, Yemen and and a few other cesspools from being able to view the trailer for this horrid movie on youtube.com Censorship works....just ask Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini and SOME of the Arab world. That's the only way to keep the ignorant masses from revolting. You got to keep them ignorant and stupid. "Arab Spring" was just a replacement of who gets to wield the hammer and the US is completely behind that also.

The whole sorry situation reminds of NATO bombing the hell out of Bosnia including high population centers. Since Clinton was all for it, Dems supported it. They hated Iraq and Afghanistan after a while because those offensives were launched by a Repub. They really, really like aiding Libya and Egypt because a Dem supports that. No standards, no brains, and total hypocrisy.

Davids mom
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NUK

Your partisanship is blinding your view of reality. But your theories are interesting. I have a theory - based on nothing but an overactive imagination. The Rove,Cheney types - seeing that in spite of their efforts, the economy is turning around - decide to create a foreign relations nightmare that will make Obama look weak. They - their operatives - pay someone on our side to give them information about an Embassy that is not heavily guarded - and that would be most of them (which by the way is at the request of the Ambassadors - they like to have a certain amount of freedom to relate to the population )- and a well planned/executed attack is successful in Libya. In the meantime, there must be a cause celebre to anger the Muslim man in the street. The burning of the Quoran didn't do it; the killing of Al Queda leaders isn't causing too much of a stir - hey - how about distributing a hateful movie denigrating Muhammad? Muslims all over the world would be incensed and we could get the entire Muslim world to turn against Obama, Clinton and their allies. End of imaginative theory. Wild!!!! The problem? What would that do to all the theories that Obama is actually a Muslim with leaning towards instituting Sharia Law in the US? Oh well - let's see what happens with this video thing.

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Wheenee wheenee twilight zone time

Nice uhhh theory..

meanoldconservatives
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The only part you left out DM......

was when the Community Organizer sent in a team of King Kong, Godzilla, Bigfoot and the Loch Ness monster to snuff out Rove and Cheney and save his second term.......

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DM: Partisanship to whom?

If you think I agree with the Cheney's or other neo-cons on foreign policy, you aren't paying much attention. Everything that I have ranted and raved about today doesn't sit well with either the Obama fiasco or the Repub alternative. If you want to put a label on it besides libertarian, you could maybe reference it as a Ron Paul view on foreign affairs.

Maybe I have missed it, but I don't recall hearing any Repubs lately saying we need to just get the hell out like I have said over and over. Just because I think Obama and his people are horrid hardly means I'm a Republican. I'm simply not that stupid.

We don't need to be involved in countries where we're clearly not welcomed. It's also not our job to "educate all of the ignorant masses" or to have some kind of government we installed for them handed off to others along with a bunch of money.

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It's a conspiracy!!

It couldn't be Obama's complete ineptness, weakness, and lack of experience when it comes to foreign policy. (and just about anything else)

No, it has to be a Republican/conservative conspiracy to make Obama look bad and turn countries against us.

You've really jumped the shark on that one, DM and your credibility is in the toilet along with much of your thinking. The economy is turning around you say? Is that why Bernake decided to institute QE2 and print $40 billion per month for the foreseeable future? The economy is turning around? Is that why there are fewer people employed than there were before Obama took office. The economy is turning around? Is that why fuel continues to rise? The economy is turning around? Bull Crap! Obama has made it worse with all of the wasteful spending and all he can do is promise more of the same. More wasteful spending. More unemployment. More Welfare. More Foodstamps from the foodstamp president.
Higher fuel prices. Higher food prices.

Just more of the same from this inept, incompetent idiot president and his side-kick Shemp.

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Obama-The worst Commander In Chief

and impotent leader this country has had. Read the call to arms by al-Quaeda leadership as a direct result of the drone killing of their #2 in Yemen. Just as was reported days ago. A new call to attack us IN OUR OWN COUNTRY. Read below if you haven't seen this yet:

http://www.ajc.com/ap/ap/entertainment/sudan-2-protesters-killed-outside...

B. HUSSEIN Obama did not anticipate this, especially with all the intelligence at his disposal? Or, maybe he did.

Anyone who thinks these attacks will now be confined to countries overseas are as misinformed at the P.O.S. Obama.

S. Lindsey
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Cut them off at the pocketbook

Stop all aid to Countries like Egypt who use our dollars to work against us.

PTC Observer
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DM - shining example

You speak of democracy as though it is a solution to our problems, it is not. It is mob rule over others, it uses the majority rule concept to apply dogma contrary to the idea of individual liberty, that of socialist ideals.

It is you DM and people like you that ignore the fact that the majority has no more "right" to another's property than a man with a gun. Our nation was not conceived as a democracy and it was not until the early 20th Century that "Democracy" was held up as the answer to all social ills of society. It started with Teddy Roosevelt and Woody Wilson. Our government was conceived as a Republic, with the idea of limited franchise rights. Yes, I know that you will immediately jump to the whole slavery, women and non-property owners argument. However unjust these practices were, it doesn't invalidate the concept of a Republic. I have posted numerous times on this subject and the distinction between a democracy and a republic form of government.

Let's turn our attention for a moment to your argument that we simply need to get along, then because we are a democracy, everything will work out just fine. The socialists in this country, particularly the Democrats, seem to ignore that the government has at times given up individual liberty for "social justice". From the Marshall Islands to Maine the government has spread it's largess to the solve social ills that face our nation. Instead of solving poverty, crime, drug use and a host of other social ills government programs have made things worse. I maintain that it is government that has promoted a life of dependency and despair. It has destroyed families through its policies and has promoted dependency as a way of life. It has thwarted human achievement in a sea of money. Socialists seem to have no confidence that people, ordinary people, can achieve great things unless they have the help of government. Or is it not that at all, is it that Socialist know that the use of dependency brings with it power and with power money. Here is one small illustration of what I am talking about: http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/314025/how-did-harry-reid-get-ric...

DM, your ideas are bankrupt. The idea that we should simply get along, forget our principles of individual freedom because that's the best way we can "save" our country, is wrongheaded and corrupt. I don't hate you DM, I hate your ideas. They enslave millions of people globally, they create wars, they have killed millions in the name of the State. DM, until we agree that it is individual human freedom and its potential for unleashing the human spirit in the form of wealth, we will always be at odds. This means that we must agree that it is not government that will provide the solution to our problems, but the individual and the freedom for individual choice in human action. It is the role of the government to protect our individual God given rights, this is all it should do.

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PTCO well said...

...DM, Lion, Gort and others are mired deep in Social Ideology. If we can just all get along or it's always "their" fault.

Not once have they ever examined their own social policies at their ineptness of handling the political atmosphere.

Take the Muslim Brotherhood for an example... We heard loudly and quiet often from the Democrats that they were no threat, that they did not even want power. That they were just a social group largely secular in nature and just want whats best for their people. They have even visited the Whitehouse with the supposed intention of partnering with "Small Business".

But yet they have elected a President in Egypt, killed and oppressed their own citizens and setback relations with Israel 20 years.

"A senior military official warned that “the Coptic Christian community in Egypt now is under threat of mass slaughter from Islamists under the pretense of revenge for a movie that depicts the Quranic figure Muhammad in a negative light.”

The new ruling party in Egypt, The Muslim Brotherhood, is trying to play both ends against the middle. The Brotherhood was swept to power based on their Islamist roots and calls for the full implementation of Sharia, but they are still dependent on the United States for military assistance and a regular infusion of cash."

Yet people like DM are simply a representative of the Democrat party. Their inability to see past their own ideology believing by force of their will they can "negotiate" talk to these fanatics and make them "like" us.
They throw money at them just like they do every thing else thinking with just a little more it will make the difference.

They would rather fund our enemies then fund our own work force.. that is unless you happen to be a Union backing this President that is. Just think.. what could we do if we took all that money that WE GIVE to people that hate us and instead used it to fund exploration of our own energy supplies. WE could be independent from these nut-jobs...but no we have to give them money so they can like us.

PTCO it is a Cancer. Progressive Socialism has been the goal from the start a Social Democracy if you will. They BELIEVE they can do Socialism the good old American way. They have infected our Schools, our Government and our very way of life.

We will NEVER be friends with Islamo-Fascist no matter how much money we throw at them. They are Wahhabi through and through. They MUST bring forth the Caliphate and to do that they must ignite a holy war and any excuse to do will do even an insignificant YouTube video.

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S. Lindsey: well done

A cuckoo clock set to go off every 15 minutes could not convey your message any better.

Davids mom
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PTCO
Quote:

Let's turn our attention for a moment to your argument that we simply need to get along, then because we are a democracy, everything will work out just fine

There is nothing simple to the complex problem of humans relating with respect to one another. I celebrate the progress made in a small city - Fayetteville, GA. I don't think that should be interpreted as I believe because we are a democracy/republic , everything will work out fine. Your definition of democracy as 'mob rule' is disturbing. By the way: Let's agree on a definition of 'republic'

1.a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by representatives chosen directly or indirectly by them.
2.any body of persons viewed as a commonwealth.
3.a state in which the head of government is not a monarch or other hereditary head of state.

You mentioned that the denial of the right to vote was unjust.

Quote:

However unjust these practices were, it doesn't invalidate the concept of a Republic. I have posted numerous times on this subject and the distinction between a democracy and a republic form of government

I have read some expressions of limiting the vote. You have acknowledged that denying some in our 'republic' was unjust . Other than convicted felons/criminals - and non- citizens, what is a justifiable reason to deny the right to vote?

Quote:

Yet people like DM are simply a representative of the Democrat party. Their inability to see past their own ideology believing by force of their will they can "negotiate" talk to these fanatics and make them "like" us.
They throw money at them just like they do every thing else thinking with just a little more it will make the difference

I don't think the elimination of a large part of the Al Quada leadership under this administration demonstrates that 'talk' alone will solve problems. Regarding the concept of throwing money - well we're still looking for the millions of American dollars that supposedly went to Iraq. Oops, it just disappeared. And of course those hoping to remove the president from office are not using money to buy influence and control minds.

We 'gave' a great deal of money to Japan and Germany - and there was a period where they hated us. You get the point. We need leadership that can calculate the consequences of their actions. . and place great value on human life - see it more than collateral damage. With today's technology, we are fighting a very different war than in the '40's. Our military leaders and scientists are using their expertise when advising the president . Our intelligence agency is among the world's best. A great American leader will use the expertise of his advisors and not POLITICS!

The country is divided in ideology - but united in defending ourselves from domestic and international terrorism . I consider anyone talking about denying the right to vote to an American citizen a domestic terrorist.

PTC Observer
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DM - You're quoting

something said by Lindsey and applying it to me, did you have your nap today?

To answer your question concerning limiting the vote: as I have said on many posts here I would not allow anyone working for government the right to vote, including but not limited to people that work for vendors of the government, contractors, county, state and federal workers, representatives, or members of the armed services (unless those individuals were drafted). Until recent history, members of the armed services did not vote and officers never voted out of a sense of honor to uphold the integrity of the Constitution. Did I mention Public teachers? Yes, they too would not be able to vote.

Exculding these groups would go a long way in bringing back a republican form of government. Repealing the 16th and 17th Amendments would further control our out of control socialist democracy.

Davids mom
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PTCO - Domestic Terrorist

PTCO said:

Quote:

Exculding these groups would go a long way in bringing back a republican form of government. Repealing the 16th and 17th Amendments would further control our out of control socialist democracy

Excluding American citizens from voting? Thanks for your clarification. Don't be foolish enough to try to take away my vote.
Only 'entitled citizens' vote? And all government employees are ineligible? Beware of these 'patriots' Yikes!

PTC Observer
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Republics - DM

You have defined it correctly, and I have given you my view. Since it is Constitution day I thought I would give you something to read.

Essential Liberty

"Monday, Sept. 17, marks the 225th anniversary of the signing of the nation's second great founding document, the Constitution that provides Americans with limited government. ... The Constitution was drafted more than 11 years after the Declaration. The United States had won independence but was struggling under the weak Articles of Confederation. The Founding Fathers wanted to draft a document that would provide an effective but carefully limited federal government. Through a series of compromises, they did just that. They designed three branches of government -- legislative, executive and judicial -- that would check each other. If one tried to usurp too much power, the others would have an interest in bringing it back into line. Just as competition brings down prices in economics, competition would tend to keep any particular branch of government from acquiring too much power. ... The Constitution has held up well for more than two centuries, with only occasional modifications (the 27 amendments) through the years. Of course, people used to be a bit more serious about the idea that the Constitution said what it meant and meant what it said. Any 21st-century celebration of the Constitution should take note that the country is no longer keeping faith with its constitutional principles. Today, most 'laws' actually are rules and regulations enacted by bureaucrats in government agencies, not statutes passed by elected lawmakers. Even when Congress does pass legislation, such as the Dodd-Frank financial reform law or Obamacare, lawmakers leave many blanks and expect rule-makers to fill them in. That means the bureaucracy, peopled with federal 'experts,' essentially exists as an unelected fourth branch of government. ... Our constitutional framework of limited government requires a president who will actively use his granted powers but also recognize the strict limits on those powers. After the Constitution was complete, Benjamin Franklin noted that it made the country 'a republic, if you can keep it.' This Constitution Day, let's honor the framers and respect their work by changing America's course -- and returning to our constitutional roots." --Heritage Foundation President Ed Feulner

Returning to our constitutional roots "a republic" will be impossible because of people like you DM. You don't have anything to worry about, people like me have no chance against people like you. Cause, you have the power.

Davids mom
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Thank you Ed Fuelner

I will react to PTCO's desire to take away the American vote from our military, law enforcement, public school teachers, security for our legislators,postal workers, etc., etc., etc. I'm sure 'people like me' will keep an eye on 'people like PTCO. If Mr. Feulner and PTCO advocate limiting the right to vote in this country - they are domestic terrorists. (I saw nothing in Mr. Feulner's essay which indicated that he was a domestic terrorist - but thanks for sharing PTCO.)

PTC Observer
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DM - You're

Welcome, now go take your nap!

lion
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Constitution and PTCO

The U.S Constitution established the Federal Government in large part because the limited government under the Articles of Confederation was not working. The founding fathers opted or a stronger central government with balance of powers.

The Federal Government has been an agent responsible for expanding freedom in our country. It ended slavery and segregation. The Federal government gave women the right to vote when many states (including Georgia) denied them that right. The strong Federal Government has expanded freedom in our country while many states, many in the South, have tried to deny freedom to many American citizens.

So any mantra of "states rights or "limited government" rings hollow in the perspective of American history.

PTC Observer
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Lion - You're

correct on this and these actions are clearly within the scope and purpose of the Constitution. Limited government does not mean that government should not protect individual rights, that is its purpose.

As to your other point, I would suggest that you read up on how the Constitution was developed out of the Annapolis Convention of 1786, this meeting was convened to amend the Articles of Confederation to solve its defect. The defect in question was interstate commerce, but the real issue was money and how to raise it. It seemed that the individual states were setting up interstate tariffs to raise state revenues. Not to get into a lot of detail on this, this convention led to a call for a larger convention to make changes to the Article of Confederation. There weren't enough members present to solve the problem of interstate tariffs and of course there were other defects to be addressed. So, we had the next convention convene in Philadelphia in May of 1787, but things didn't really get going until June. The rest they say, is history. What went on in secret in Philadelphia has been described by some as an intellectual coup_d'état. However, what was clear is that there was a lot of debate about how much power should be vested in the new government. The consensus in the minds of those that developed the Constitution, was not much. Not even by the Federalist standards of Mr. Hamilton could they have agreed to the government we have today.

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