More Bribes to get 'healthcare reform' passed

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Joe Kawfi
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Obama names brother of undecided House Dem to Appeals Court.

Tonight, Barack Obama will host ten House Democrats who voted against the health care bill in November at the White House; he's obviously trying to persuade them to switch their votes to yes. One of the ten is Jim Matheson of Utah. The White House just sent out a press release announcing that today President Obama nominated Matheson's brother Scott M. Matheson, Jr. to the United States Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit.

This "president" knows that he can't get this trainwreck of a bill passed on its own merits, so he must bribe undecided democrats. Obama - nothing different here- just another long line of corruptocrats.

"We're not going to pass health care with a 50 plus 1 strategy," - Barack Obama, Liar-in-Chief

duflochy
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Corruption

Political corruption: the abuse of public power, office, or resources by government officials or employees for personal gain, e.g. by extortion, soliciting or offering bribes.......

Chris P. Bacon
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Well Qualified

Let's see, the gentleman that President Obama nominated to the United States Court of Appeals happens to be a former U.S. Attorney for the state of Utah and Dean of the University of Utah's school of law.

Seems pretty qualified to me, actually.

Not to mention that Republican Senator Orrin Hatch and Republican Representative Jason Chaffetz both praised Scott Matheson as "well qualified".

This looks like yet another Joe Kawfi "nontroversy".

AtHomeGym
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Krispy & Qualifications

No one is questioning his qualifications--there are probably a dozen or more equally qualified candidates around. Are you saying that it's just a coincidence that his brother happens to be a former "Nay" voter on the health duflochy? Not bloody likely!

duflochy
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AtHomeGym : answer to your question....

I was just giving the correct definition of political corruption.....It fit.

AtHomeGym
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Duflo & Answer

If you'll note, the question was to "Krispy Pork Belly Slices". I understood your post and reason why.

TinCan
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AHG, More than a slight chance

Very likely that the response you got was from CPB. There are similaries beginning to appear.

Chris P. Bacon
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Qualifications

I'm sure that there are a number of law school deans with previous experience as United States Attorney, especially in a lightly populated state like Utah. Can't swing a stick without hitting one, in fact.

I don't think that the judicial nomination timing was coincidental, but calling this nomination a "bribe" when the nominee is very well qualified (a fact you yourself admit) is ludicrous.

The Wedge
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The definition of a bribe

bribe (n).
1. Something, such as money or a favor, offered or given to a person in a position of trust to influence that person's views or conduct.
2. Something serving to influence or persuade.

so applying this definition to this appointment is ludicrous? Since you admittedly think that the nomination timing was not coincidental, doesn't that make your line of thinking ludicrous? This is nothing but a quid pro quo in the form of a bribe. By definition, the only difference between this action (to curry a vote) and what Blagojevich did was a wiretap and microphone.

Chris P. Bacon
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Democrats and Republicans both agree: It's not a bribe
The Wedge
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Why would politicans differ on this?

I am not disputing the legal nature. It is certainly legal. But it is a legal quid pro quo bribe. See also--normal ways for politicians to operate-morally vacuous. Why would they call themselves out-- see the Nebraska and Louisiana purchases of the past 4 months? A person make take a $100.00 fee for certain services, and they could call it community service, but we all know what it truly is.

AtHomeGym
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10th Circuit Judge

Who says it had to come from Utah? The 10th serves 6 states, including Utah, and sits in Denver.

S. Lindsey
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Is anyone really surprised

With the Cornhuskers Kickback, the Louisanna Purchase and the Gatoraid and now here comes de "judge".

My question is why is anyone surprised?

Obama, Pelosi and Reid will do ANYTHING including buying off others with our money..

The real question is WHY?

If this was all about healthcare.. then it begs to be asked why does the taxes begin now and the healthcare begins in 3-5 years? I thought we are in a crisis? I thought people were dying?

Why not start over? Why not open this up for a real debate?

The only answer I can come up with is it's not about Healthcare it's about structure.. Building a framework for something else..

What is it?

Davids mom
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It's becoming apparent

that the Republicans have dedicated themselves to the failure of the Obama administration, even if it means hurting the American people. Not only has there been real debate - sprinkled with outright lies from both sides - there has been a concerted effort to 'scare' the American people rather than 'inform'. Both parties will suffer for this. The younger independents will see through this - and the Republicans and the Democrats (politicians/not statesman) will be gone by 2012. THEN MAYBE WE CAN GET SOMETHING DONE IN THE UNITED STATES!

meanoldconservatives
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DM, other things have been apparent for quite some time

This is different because this is a president in whom you are emotionally invested. You can make these claims to make yourself feel better if you want, history proves otherwise. You guys did the same thing. You always conveniently forget that. It's called politics. One side has a majority, the other doesn't. One side has the White House, the other doesn't. Those dynamics produce the same results time after time.

The problem for your side is your party had the clear majority, an unobstructed path to this health care "reform". Dems had more than a year to craft a bill with no hope of opposition from the right. A chance to include lots of good old pork, incorporate that "progressive vision" into our lives that we are all too dumb to know we need. But you know what? Like drunken fools, drunk with power and arrogance, you could not get out of your own greedy way. There wasn't quite enough movement to the left yet. There weren't quite enough votes bought yet. There wasn't a big enough entitlement created just yet. There weren't enough back-room deals made yet. You know what your real mistake was though? There was nobody watching the clock and monitoring the pulse of the country who was smart enough to say "let's go with this thing now, before something happens". And then the buzzer blew.....

God love the smart people of Massachusetts. They temporarily stopped this madness. Your side learned NOTHING from the election of Scott Brown. Rationalize it a different way if you choose. Go ahead and cram this bill through. We'll see what the fallout is. Pay no attention to the polls. Dems know what we all need. You can say "we told you so" when we get convinced how wrong we were and just love government-run health care. That's the best way, right???

One more thing. The failures of Obama and his administration have needed ZERO help from conservatives. He is driving that train himself and we are all watching the wreck, real-time. Conservatives are simply trying to stop a bill with too many things the majority of people don't like. He is capably handling the rest himself.

Bonkers
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The "People"

want to defeat health care for 40 million! They want to continue to pay up to 20% more compounded every year (and so do businesses who furnish part of the cost).
Yes, there are some "people" who feel that way.
The Health Insurance companies; many politicians who take enormous sums from them; many people;e who work for them; some Tea people; ultra right wing dudes; and of course large hospitals and some doctors.

My estimate is that of the hundred million who might vote that 65 million of them want the new health plan. Many of the other 35% currently have insurance paid for by someone else (Social Security, Coke, Delta, Att, etc.)
Frankly, I think all Presidents and congress people should serve only one-term, including President Obama. He just hopes to get enough votes from the downtrodden, low wage earners and poor to re-elect him. That is no better than their opposites electing someone else!
Votes need to come from all sectors and all politicians work towards going home after one term!

meanoldconservatives
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Bonker's multiple personalities poll vs. Rasmussen

Well, let's see now.

Bonker's daily poll is showing 65% of Americans support this plan for health care reform.

Rasmussen's latest poll shows 42% approve and 53% disapprove.

Hmmmm, now that's a tough one.

Although, Bonkers can sample all of his many blogging aliases and that may be more than Rasmussen samples.

S. Lindsey
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MOC now ole Bonkers

might be a little loose in the screw dept.. But he's harmless enough.
I do wonder where he got those numbers from.. Maybe Moveon or Salon or even SDS.. who knows?

meanoldconservatives
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S.L.

"I do wonder where he got those numbers from."

I won't be too descriptive S.L., but my bet is he's sitting on the repository for those numbers right now.

Bonkers
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Polls on health care favoritism : MOC

Your fellow Rasmussen (or lady Rasmussen) only polls "VOTERS" which can be fairly accurate in an election, but means nothing in a "favor" poll of a law passing!

If you will recall about half of people eligible to vote, vote. They do not get polled. They also are the majority of those with no insurance, etc.

Now do your math again considering citizens---not just voters and see if my 65% isn't actually conservative! No, make that safe.

I hate it when word scramblers use numbers to their benefit. It is getting old and people are getting fed up with it.
Obama caused the current Great Recession----RIGHT!!!!! Just a distraction from the cause.

meanoldconservatives
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Bonker$ poll

"I hate it when word scramblers use numbers to their benefit."

Very well said. I can't think of a better way to summarize that BS you tried to formulate above. Somebody who hasn't read your previous drivel on here might think you have a clue. Most of us know better. You stick with that imaginary group of numbers and ideas. I'll stick with scientific polls.

More than 65% of the country favors this health care bill as written? As you said-----RIGHT!!!!!

Bonkers
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MOC: "scientific" polls?

You know well what I said!
Now, was the Rasmussen poll of "Voters" only, or not?
You of course will disparage all who don't vote all of the time I'm sure!

You seem to not be able to help using manipulated information!

The truth is, many don't really care about what the majority want--just what they want.

meanoldconservatives
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Bonker$

You don't even know what you are talking about Bonker$. How could I?

I do believe Rasmussen polls voters. Now, was your 65% estimate from your other blogging aliases or have you polled all those non-voters? Did you work on that during your recent blogging time-out???

Bonkers
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MOC: YES

How did you guess?

I worked on it.

Are you indicating that a majority of non-voters WOULD vote for no revised health insurance?
Of course not----you didn't even realize that that poll was of VOTERS only. They are not the only people alive. I don't vote in every election and for all selected candidates! Do you?

It simply doesn't matter anyway----the health plan is needed and will now pass soon, if not now. Selfish to have 40 million begging or dieing, while some are over-treated and some are much too rich from such a thing!

meanoldconservatives
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Bonker$

"Selfish to have 40 million begging or dieing...."

Good Lord.....what a drama queen. Sit back down for a while so you can't produce any other "thoughts" like that, for a while anyway. If you know what I mean....

meanoldconservatives
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Whoopsie, another Obama campaign promise bites the dust....

"A nonpartisan study is casting new doubt on President Obama's campaign pledge not to raise taxes on the middle class.

The Senate health care bill crucial to saving President Obama's signature domestic initiative will hit the wallets of a quarter of all Americans making less than $200,000 per year, according to an analysis by the nonpartisan Joint Tax Committee that assessed the way the bill would hit taxpayers directly through new taxes and fees and indirectly through taxes levied on health care providers and passed on to consumers.

The committee also determined that the bill would subsidize insurance premiums for 7 percent of taxpayers -- about 13 million people -- while some 73 million people would face higher costs from the new fees and taxes.

The potential tax increases in the bill could pose significant problems for the president as he makes his final push for health care reform because he promised to protect middle-class Americans from any tax hikes. Republicans already are pouncing on the committee's analysis.

"For every family that gets some benefit from this program, in other words, a premium subsidy, three families are going to get a tax increase and those three families obviously include the bulk of people you'd call middle class America," Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, told Fox News.

The new analysis highlighting the tax burdens of the Senate bill could undercut the president's push.

There's a long list of taxes in the Senate bill, including some paid directly by consumers. Other taxes are on providers who will simply pass it on to consumers.

"It has imposed a lot of taxes and fees on the drug companies, on the medical device manufacturers, on the insurance companies," said economist Doug Holtz Eakin. "All of that is going to show up in higher sticker prices for those that have health insurance."

And then there is the proposed tax on high-cost insurance plans, which was pushed back but will result in significantly higher tax payments by tens of millions of Americans who have generous insurance plans through their workplace.

Also, there would be a brand new Medicare tax on dividends and capital gains, which haven't been taxed before."

LINK

Davids mom
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From Media other than Fox News

President Barack Obama’s final push for national health care reform received a boost today when the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) released its final cost estimates for the bill that the Senate approved with 60 votes in December.
The CBO estimates that the $875 billion Senate plan, which is the basis for Obama’s plan, would reduce the federal deficit by $118 billion over 10 years and would provide health care insurance for 31 million people who otherwise would be uninsured. The plan would reduce the deficit because its costs would be more than offset in savings from changes in Medicare and tax increases for wealthy citizens, including taxes on capital gains for upper-income earners.
Democrats are still waiting for a final cost estimate from the CBO for Obama’s plan.
Obama's plan would build on the Senate’s bill by expanding subsidies for health insurance premiums and closing the Medicare prescription coverage gap. The plan also would prohibit insurance companies from denying coverage for people with pre-existing conditions and dropping coverage for people who become ill.

It pays to read all media coverage. (CBO=Congress Budget Office)

S. Lindsey
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Actually CBO story included in Fox News Story

Can't get more Fair and Balanced than that.. Read the whole story it does bring up some interesting points..

meanoldconservatives
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Yes S.L., someone is really over-protective these days.....

Had DM bothered to read from the provided link she would have discovered this delicious morsel that was included:

"The analysis comes as the Congressional Budget Office updated its cost tally of the Senate bill, estimating that the last-minute changes made to the bill before it was passed Christmas Eve upped the price to $875 billion, from $871 billion. The CBO also estimates that the bill would reduce the federal deficit by $118 billion over a 10 year period, revised down from $132 billion.

And even this one that WASN'T included in hers:

But the projection could be undermined by future spending needed to administer parts of the bill, including up to $10 billion for the IRS, up to $20 billion for Health and Human Services and up to $50 billion for "grant programs and other provisions."

I guess to her point though, with us middle-class folks paying more taxes we'll have more time to read ALL MEDIA COVERAGE. Since we'll have less money to eat out, entertain ourselves, and travel. Sounds great....

Davids mom
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The CBO also estimates that

The CBO also estimates that the bill would reduce the federal deficit by $118 billion over a 10 year period, revised down from $132 billion.

I read it all - just wanted others to see another slant/which you didn't include in your rendition of the 'fair and balanced' report. Nite! :-)

meanoldconservatives
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DM

Precisely why one includes the link. That way it isn't perceived as "their rendition".

Davids mom
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Deleted by Poster

.

Bonkers
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Cost of Health care bill

Last thing I heard was that the revised health care bill would cost ZERO.

Obama said it wouldn't!

I don't expect to pay any more taxes anyway!

Once competition comes into the view, you will see much less costs from doctors and hospitals, and certainly Insurance companies.

For now the Insurance companies will BID to run the plans--under regulation of course.
Eventually, everyone will be on Medicare that aren't covered by some other method.
What a wonderful program Medicare has been. We don't have old people and the disabled anymore sitting in chairs at their kids home where they aren't wanted, unable to move and no money for medicine or doctors.

meanoldconservatives
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Good Lord....

"Last thing I heard was that the revised health care bill would cost ZERO.

Obama said it wouldn't!

I don't expect to pay any more taxes anyway!

Once competition comes into the view, you will see much less costs from doctors and hospitals, and certainly Insurance companies."

How do you respond to abject stupidity????? Obama, Pelosi and Reid are counting on mindless lemmings like you to buy their snake-oil. Nobody here is buying the crap you are peddling old man.

S. Lindsey
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Moc this usually happens when bonkie goes off his meds

but don't poke him.. he will start speaking yiddesh or Mountain Oyster or something..

Bonkers
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MOC: Abject, huh?

Just how much more taxes do you think you personally will have to pay for the new health bill? I really do not expect to pay another dime over what I pay now.

As to mindless lemmings (whatever that is) and peddled crap, and abject stupidity, and snake oil, we got way too much of that from 1980 until 2009!

The Clinton's tried to stop the spending and poor treatment of ordinary people, but just held it firm. Hard to improve total ruination!

meanoldconservatives
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Yes Bonker$, abject. I knew you'd have to look it up....

"Just how much more taxes do you think you personally will have to pay for the new health bill? I really do not expect to pay another dime over what I pay now."

Well, I have no idea how much more it will cost me. Unlike you, since I am a productive member of society I have NO DOUBT it will cost me quite a bit. I guess they are deciding exactly how many "uninsured" each of us that pay taxes will have to pay for. I'm not drinking that Kool-Aid Obama is offering that middle-class taxes won't rise and the trillion bucks will be made up by welfare fraud crack-downs. Drink up fool!!!

S. Lindsey
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Americans are Voters Bonkers

and Voters are Americans.. But since you think they should not count just Voters.. Well here ya go..

"In U.S., 45% Favor, 48% Oppose Obama Healthcare Plan
Growing sentiment among opponents that bill would raise costs, not address real problems"

"The poll finds that Americans who oppose passing a healthcare bill like the one Obama has proposed do so more because they disagree with that specific approach, rather than the efforts to reform healthcare more generally. Sixty-two percent of Americans who oppose the bill would prefer that Congress start over on new legislation, while 37% say Congress should not work on healthcare legislation at this time." Gallup March 7, 2010 poll

Bonkers
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Lindsey: Americans are Voters?

Frankly, I think we should NOT count non-voters, minorities of all types,
ugly people, people who speak up against conservatives, those who DO NOT listen to Limbaugh and O'Reilly and the ragin' AA fellow.

The rest of us can do just well thank you without all that confusion by ignorant non-contributing people.

Voters are Americans, unless (see above), and Americans are voters, rail mericans, thet is!

S. Lindsey
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and you forgot

anyone with an MPD and named Bonkers..

AtHomeGym
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Anybody & Polls

If any of you rely on polls, regardless of who conducts them, as solid evidence of the public's true view on any subject, you're foolish. In my view, they are only a narrow and more than likely dishonest happy snaps of public opinion with little validation or certification. I say scrap them all!

Bonkers
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You will know

in about three days, I think!

Bonkers
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To: MOC & Lindsey: health

In about three days, I think you will notice where the 65% comes from!!!!
(After the Tea people go home from DC!) And Boehner and Army and others relax and hope they kept their influence)

S. Lindsey
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Bunk your numbers are as made up

as your post on the Arctic Ice Shelf free of ice year round..

You sir are the definition of GIGO

Garbage in.. Garbage out...

Davids mom
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MOC

Dems had more than a year to craft a bill with no hope of opposition from the right

Do you really believe the above? We all as Americans should have pride and confidence in those we elect as our leaders. For 8 years the people you seem to have invested confidence in did NOTHING about the pork, the spending, the fraud, the lies, (Iraq WMD'S), the Enron’s, the AIG'S, etc., etc., etc. Then as soon as Barak Obama was elected, you and yours started screaming STOP THE SPENDING, no new taxes, Obama's not solving the problems like he promised. What was found AFTER the election was that we were in worse shape than we imagined!! One can't blame 'conservatives' for this 'get Obama' at any cost - one can blame those who started the talk show crap about his being a Kenyan, a Muslim, a Socialist, characterizing him as a 'monkey' - claiming that they wanted to 'take back their country'. Not all conservatives are mean and/or gullible. There are Democrats who are conservative. Those conservative who find it necessary to downright lie and use scare tactics are those who are killing the Republican Party. We'll see what happens. Did you bother to read FactCheck.org? It points out the facts and twisted truths being told by both parties. Let's hope that thinking Americans will look at the facts, analyze how health care reform will affect them and their loved ones - and then inform their representative how they want them to vote. Again - NOT ALL CONSERVATIVES ARE MEAN. Can you enumerate what in the bill YOU don't like and will affect you adversely?

S. Lindsey
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Well let me take a shot at this...

For 8 years the people you seem to have invested confidence in did NOTHING about the pork, the spending, the fraud, the lies, (Iraq WMD'S), the Enron’s, the AIG'S, etc., etc., etc.

You know Democrats where in Congress also correct? You also do know that the Democrats also said that Saddam had WMDs don’t you..Oh it’s a talking point I get it..

Then as soon as Barak Obama was elected, you and yours started screaming STOP THE SPENDING, no new taxes, Obama's not solving the problems like he promised.

Who do you think spoke out the loudest..
"Conservative" Bush Spends More than "Liberal" Presidents Clinton, Carter
by Veronique de Rugy and Tad DeHaven
This article appeared on cato.org on July 31, 2003.” That’s us DM speaking rather loudly

US again..” For Republicans and conservatives who voted for, and remain truly committed to, the values expressed by George W. Bush in the 2000 campaign debates, the Bush presidency has betrayed those values.”Republicans for Humility 2003

One can't blame 'conservatives' for this 'get Obama' at any cost - one can blame those who started the talk show crap about his being a Kenyan, a Muslim, a Socialist, characterizing him as a 'monkey' - claiming that they wanted to 'take back their country'.

Well DM you would have to ask the Hillary Clinton supporters for that one it was their group that got the Birther movement started..

Those conservative who find it necessary to downright lie and use scare tactics are those who are killing the Republican Party.

DM I guess the LIES that OBAMA, PELOSI and REID tell are OK??? And the Dems have never used scare tactics.. REALLY?

We'll see what happens. Did you bother to read FactCheck.org? It points out the facts and twisted truths being told by both parties.

Well DM I read it.. and saw only Obama being called to task for his “INACCURATE” statements

Let's hope that thinking Americans will look at the facts, analyze how health care reform will affect them and their loved ones - and then inform their representative how they want them to vote.

DM they have already done so..
“Fifty-seven percent (57%) of voters say the health care reform plan now working its way through Congress will hurt the U.S. economy.” Rasmussen
“The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 42% favor the plan while 53% are opposed. These figures include just 20% who Strongly Favor the plan and 41% who are Strongly Opposed.”

Can you enumerate what in the bill YOU don't like and will affect you adversely?

1. Federally funded ABORTIONS
2. Being FORCED to purchase a Government APPROVED product under penalty of fines or jail..
3. No competition allowing cross border purchase of competitive polices
4. CBO estimates say a family of four with a household income of $54,000 would be expected to pay 17 percent of their income, $9,000, on healthcare exposing too many families to grave financial risk.
5. Placing an excise tax on comprehensive so called Cadillac insurance plans which will encourage employers to reduce or drop benefits, force employees to shoulder MORE OF THE BURDEN OF THE COST, pushhigh-deductible plans.
6. Provisions permitting insurers and companies to more than double charges to employees who fail "wellness" programs because they have diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol readings, or other medical conditions.
7. Insurers are permitted to sell policies "across state lines", exempting patient protections passed in other states.
8. Insurers can charge four times more based on age plus more for certain conditions, and continue to use marketing techniques to cherry-pick healthier, less costly enrollees.
9. Insurers may continue to rescind policies for "fraud or intentional misrepresentation" – the main pretext insurance companies now use to cancel coverage.

I could go on and on and on

Davids mom
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Lindsey

Thanks for your shot. I should have expressed that both Democrats and Republicans are losing credibility behind this 'stop Obama' crusade. Your enumerated reasons why you can't support a ‘bill” reads right off the pro-insurance companies talking points page. Let's see what the House passes. You realize that we still don't have a 'bill'. Fortunately, most here realize that polls can be manipulated. If every poll were correct throughout the year, Obama would not be president. (Polls represent the views of those polled (not necessarily the entire country; and the thought at that given date and time) The individuals that I have spoken with are heartened that pre-existing conditions will be gone; their premiums will not go up - as they have this year (some as much as 40%); TAXPAYER MONEY WILL NOT BE USED FOR ABORTIONS; that those under 26 will be able to remain on their parents insurance plan until they can secure one of their own (get a job); Medicare and Medicaid will be MONITORED; etc., etc., etc. - oh - and if you are happy with your insurance and your doctor, nothing need change. (I, also could go on and on) We'll see soon what the 'bill' says. The ‘let’s start over’ crowd is definitely in the minority. You live in a conservative/Republican community – and certainly represent the opinions in Fayette County. You were not in the majority thought last year – and you’re not in the majority thought today. The American people want health care reform – and a Congress that can get the job done by working together for the American people – not the political party.

S. Lindsey
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Dm you can pull the talking points

out faster than an old wild west gunfighter.. Why don't you answer the charges you raised in your little missive? You sling mud better than any Brick layer I ever saw..

The points I raised are actually not from any Insurance Company but the actual Senate BILL.

You can demigod the Ins. Company's all you want.. THEY ARE FOR THIS.. Don't you get it.. They are getting 30-50 MILLION NEW ENROLLEES with the Taxpayers guaranteeing the bill.

You do not understand the funding process of a bill.. It's called the rule of Omission.. Unless a line item is specifically stated to not be funded it will be.. Every time an amendment that prohibits Federally FUNDED Abortions comes up... THE DEMOCRATS VOTE IT DOWN... WHY??? If it's not in the bill then why would they not allow it to be specifically stated?

Look at pages 2068 and 2076 in the 2700 page bill... $1 per month per contributor.. (You and I)will go to Federal Family Planning Programs.. THATS TAXPAYER PAID ABORTION.. You can spin it off any way you want but thats the FACTS JACK..

You obviously live in your own little world.. Show me the POLLS that say AMERICANS WANT THIS HEALTHCARE BILL.. SHOW ME THE POLLS THAT WANTS THIS BILL TO GO FORWARD.. I gave you the Rasmussen polls.. I gave you the Gallup Polls.. I even gave you the POLLS from CNN, CBS, MSNBC and all agreed AMERICANS do not want this.. and still you and BONKERS try to come up with non-existent numbers.. I am not sure what mind altering drugs you two are on but please keep them to yourself.. Lucky most Americans realize this is wrong and has some COMMON SENSE.. You have lost yours..

" “But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy." Nancy Pelosi

They don't know whats in it.. Why should we want it?

Chris P. Bacon
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S. Lindsey wrong on taxpayer-funded abortions

S. Lindsey commented "Look at pages 2068 and 2076 in the 2700 page bill... $1 per month per contributor.. (You and I)will go to Federal Family Planning Programs.. THATS TAXPAYER PAID ABORTION.. You can spin it off any way you want but thats the FACTS JACK.."
.
S. Lindsey is incorrect.
.
The exact opposite is true.

.
The language of the Health Care Reform bill specifically excludes abortion services except for cases of rape, incest or the health of the mother, the exact same verbiage used in existing (Medicare) law.
.
If someone wanted to purchase an insurance policy containing optional abortion coverage, they must write two checks each month: one for the basic insurance coverage (which may or may not be taxpayer subsidized) and a separate $1 policy for abortion coverage, which is not...repeat, not...taxpayer subsidized in any way, shape or form.
.
It is worth repeating that this abortion coverage is entirely optional. No one is forced to purchase abortion coverage, and no taxpayer funds are used to subsidize this coverage.
.
For further reading: Why Stupak Is Wrong: The Senate bill doesn't fund abortions. Here's why he thinks it does.
.
p.s. the word you are looking is "demagogue", not "demigod"

Davids mom
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Crisp P. Bacon

Love that name!! Lindsey, when he gets anxious, prefers to use colorful phrases rather than facts. Thanks for clarifying - what I believe he already knows. He just likes a good 'discussion' where he can show off his creative language skills.

S. Lindsey
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Pot calling the kettle BLACK

Thanks for the contribution..

S. Lindsey
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Fatback and demagogue

Well you got one RIGHT..

"Will health care legislation mean "government funding of abortion"?"

"President Obama said Wednesday that’s "not true" and among several "fabrications" being spread by "people who are bearing false witness." But abortion foes say it’s the president who’s making a false claim. "President Obama today brazenly misrepresented the abortion-related component" of health care legislation, said Douglas Johnson, legislative director for the National Right to Life Committee. So which side is right?"

"The truth is that bills now before Congress don’t require federal money to be used for supporting abortion coverage. So the president is right to that limited extent. But it’s equally true that House and Senate legislation would allow a new "public" insurance plan to cover abortions, despite language added to the House bill that technically forbids using public funds to pay for them. " Factcheck.org

Factcheck.org on ABORTION

I supposed you can use Slate as your source but I think I will use others..

"The Capps amendment would have set a new precedent for abortion funding, essentially overturning the Hyde language that has been federal policy since 1977. The Capps amendment departed from Hyde in several important and troubling ways: by mandating that at least one plan in the health insurance exchange provide abortion coverage, by requiring a minimum $1 monthly charge for all covered individuals that would go toward paying for abortions and by allowing individuals receiving federal affordability credits to purchase health insurance plans that cover abortion."

I would think Bart Stupak Democrat Congressman from Michigan would know a little more about what is in the bill then you or the hard left liberals at Slate... btw.. Pro-Abortion , Anti War and Anti God is a main theme from their Staff.. who have written many books on those subjects.

Not an objective source...

Why don't you give us an answer to the question asked.. Are you for the PUBLIC OPTION and Why?

S. Lindsey
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Have I been wrong on this??

Or have I been PROVED RIGHT?

"The exact opposite is true.
.
The language of the Health Care Reform bill specifically excludes abortion services except for cases of rape, incest or the health of the mother, the exact same verbiage used in existing (Medicare) law."

Just saying Sniff.. you can listen to talking points I will listen to their WORDS..

Chris P. Bacon
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Yes, Lindsey, you were wrong

Yes, Lindsey, you were wrong.

S. Lindsey
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You can say it still don't make it so...

"WASHINGTON, March 24 (Reuters) - President Barack Obama signed an executive order on abortion on Wednesday that had won crucial votes for his healthcare bill, but disappointed women's groups that have been among his most enthusiastic supporters."

"The order is intended to ensure the new healthcare law will maintain a ban on the use of federal money to pay for abortions, except in cases of rape or incest, or if the life of a woman is in danger."

""We remain deeply dismayed by it. President Obama campaigned as a pro-choice candidate. He campaigned as a person, he said, who was opposed to the Hyde Amendment. This deal, with Bart Stupak, is simply unacceptable," said Terry O'Neill, president of the National Organization for Women."

Seems like they thought it would cover Abortions.. Who Lied Sniffle?

Chris P. Bacon
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Once again, Lindsey

Please refer to my post #48.

The language of the bill specifically included language that permitted federal funding of abortion only in cases of rape, incest, or life of the mother threatened.

Stupak and his anti-choice cronies wanted to go a step further, they wanted a ban on insurance companies offering ANY abortion related services, even those policies NOT paid or subsidized by the government.

Stupak caved in when President Obama offered to sign the executive order preserving the status quo.

YOU, on the other hand, lied when you totally mischaracterized the bill as directly subsidizing on-demand abortion. It never has, and never did, but you lied and claimed that it did.

S. Lindsey
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Oh sniffie I think we know who is the liar here

I guess next you have to call me a coward insult my parents and call me a punk too...

"Mikulski amendment: On page 17, between lines 5 and 6, insert the following:
"Sec. 2709. Coverage of Preventive Women’s Health Services.
A group health plan and a health insurance issuer offering group or individual health insurance coverage shall provide coverage for, and shall not impose any cost sharing requirements (other than minimal cost sharing in accordance with guidelines developed by the Secretary) for, with respect to women … such additional preventive care and screenings not covered under section 2708. …"
On page 59, between lines 6 and 7, insert the following:
"(D) include within health insurance plan networks those essential community providers, where available, that serve predominately low-income, medically-underserved individuals, such as health care providers defined in section 340B(a)(4) of the Public Health Service Act and providers described in section 1927(c)(1)(D)(i)(IV) of the Social Security Act. …"

Nancy Pelosi states "She will not FIX the Abortion clause..

What is there to fix?

meanoldconservatives
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DM

I have detailed my issues with the bill repeatedly. They have not changed.

My central question for you is this. If the bill is as wonderful as you imagine and so right for this country, why is it not passed and signed legislation?

When Obama wanted it done late last summer, why wasn't it? When you had clear majorities in both houses and could have steamrolled opposition, why didn't it get done? Why are Democrats not voting in lockstep for this? Why are they sending Rahm out to pressure the non-believers in his own party to vote for it? Why did Scott Brown rise from the dead to win against what for months was the Democratic lock in Massachusetts? Why aren't the Blue Dogs comfortable with the cost of the bill as written? Why are some Democrats just not buying the party line that the language of the bill doesn't provide federal funding for abortion? Why are Obama and Pelosi having to instruct Democrats to vote for the bill and forget their job security if the bill is so right for the country? Why would they have to worry about the next election if it is so right? Well??????

Davids mom
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MOC/Blue Dog Democrats

. .because they come from districts that are still enthralled with Bush/Reagan policies. They're bailing. (the reps) The 'youngsters' in their districts are questioning them - and I don't mean that they are not questioning the bill - they are just questioning their elected officials 'relationship' to the Democratic Party. Too much ego/me stuff here. There are issues in that bill that even may benefit you and your family. More people have become unemployed in Fayette County. Many of them had health insurance through their jobs - they just may have a change of heart about reforming health care in this country. Getting anything done in this country with the current Republicans and current Democrats is like herding cats. Why did the Republicans/Democrats allow us to get in this mess? Take off your 'party loyalty' blinders - and see what is happening to the American people. This mess didn't start when Obama took office - right?

S. Lindsey
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Dm and isms

You must be developing the Bonkers excuse..

You say.."Take off your 'party loyalty' blinders - and see what is happening to the American people. "

Then slam the other party as hard and fast as you can.. You are what we call a Hypocrite.

You are an ideologue always have been and always will be.

Davids mom
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Lindsey

Why did the Republicans/Democrats allow us to get in this mess? Take off your 'party loyalty' blinders - and see what is happening to the American people. This mess didn't start when Obama took office - right?

Sorry, I don't think that I slammed any one party. But you're entitled to your opinion. I just don't find any credence in the idea that Obama and this administration got us in this mess. . . but evidently you and others do. Calling others and me names is juvenile - but if it makes you feel 'powerful', be my guest.

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DM Sorry you can't understand

that YOU are the only one blaming someone else.. Who here has not said that BUSH and the Republicans AND Democrats spent like CRAZY.. BUT QUADRUPLING the DEBT IS WORSE.. Projecting a 10 year deficit of $12 Trillion is NUTS..

When I hear you say that OBAMA and team Pelosi is spending us into oblivion you will than be able to pretend you are a moderate..

meanoldconservatives
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DM

A couple of things for you:

You're saying above that the Blue Dogs are bailing?? The list I have seen of those planning to retire doesn't match anyone on the current Blue Dog member list. Some of them may get bounced, but I will predict here that more "progressive" members will get bounced than Blue Dogs if they pass the current bill. Think about it, why would Bush/Reagan strongholds vote them out if they voted against the bill? Maybe if they vote for it. Just my humble guess.

What is your preoccupation with the mess starting when your hero took office? Who has said that here? Speaking of party loyalty and hero worship. I could care less who you, me or anyone else thinks caused this mess. I care that your hero doesn't make it even worse. That is the goal here. Stopping a pork laden, entitlement giving, back-room deal making, budget busting albatross. I have told you repeatedly here that there are some portions of the bill that nobody would want to stop. The problem is, there are even more portions that stink to high heaven. Again, if it didn't stink, why did it not get passed before and signed into law when your side had the clear majority?

Even Sen Nelson realized he had sold his soul to the devil and tried to backstep. Probably too little to late for him. Looks like Nelson and Harry Reid may be joining Daschle in the Booted Out Senators Club. Here's hoping!!!

JeffC
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Easily answered MOC

The Democratic Party is not like the Republican Party. They are never in lockstep agreement for anything. There is a constant fight between the moderates like the Blue Dogs and the holier-than-thou ultra liberal wing who must have their way and if they only get 98% then that's a disaster for them and they will therefore withhold their support. There is a long history of this in the Party going back to at least the McGovern/Kennedy axis of the late 60s. Perhaps the best way to explain it to you is by analogy. Do you have children? Remember reasoning with them when they were five years old?

The bill will fail because they didn't get single payer. Therefore, they won't support it. Obama's mistake is that he takes an approach reminiscent of Dukakis when asked about somebody killing his wife and wanders off into an esoteric wonderland of explanation and reasoning instead of kicking their teeth in.

Be thankful. The ultra-liberal fringe wing of the Party saved you from this health care bill.

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Jeff: Defeated?

You think the total health bill is defeated?
I think they will compromise to whatever extent it takes to get some kind of health bill!
Possibly, if all else fails, they could go ahead and let it be defeated and use that for the campaign. Bad old rights----don't want to help anyone!

meanoldconservatives
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Bonker$

"Bad old rights----don't want to help anyone!"

Hence the name...meanoldconservatives. I saw your word play.

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Jeff.. You and I agree

The Democrat party.. contrary to MSM.. is very fractured. The PROGRESSIVES have made a power grab and is destroying your and my former party.

The same is happening although on a little smaller scale amongst the Republicans.

They have misjudged the feeling of America. All of the bribes, sweetheart deals and back-room arm twisting is looking to most of America as simple Chicago Style Politics.

The Senate Bill without any fixes is being pushed and most agree that it will make Insurance MORE expenses not less...

Obama has now retracted his statement of this bill reducing premiums and lowering the deficit by $1 Trillion.. He misspoke AGAIN..

He seems to do that a lot..

Davids mom
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MOC AND LINDSEY

It is obvious that we have different opinions - and some very similar opinions - one being that both the Democrats and Republicans are more interested in the coming election than the American people at this point. Do you guys remember when Gingrich held the floor open until he twisted the arm of a Republican to vote his way? Twisting arms, bribes, deals, - as you have said - is 'politics'. Obama's administration tried to govern by bi-partisanship - and that is just not going to happen. You can't change a behavior that has been cemented in American 'democracy' for generations overnight. You can't change mistakes of the past by ignoring them and taking steps that will put citizens out of work while trying to overcome past missteps. One doesn't make money/fix problems by 'not spending'. If you and I (or anyone on this blog) had the answers - we'd be running the country!!
However, resorting to name calling and denigrating remarks is not necessary. We’re just having a discussion, not a fight – right?

S. Lindsey
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Dm.. just when has Obama

tried bi-partisanship?? Oh he spoke the words.. But words are just words.. It's actions.. When he said "I won. So I think on that one, I trump you." showed he had no intention of being bi-partisan.

Dm it is a fight.. It's a fight for the future of your Grandkids and mine.. If we ALL don't stand up and say enough RIGHT NOW it will be very soon TOO LATE.

This COUNTRY can not sustain the massive debt this administration is piling on..

This is NOT A LEFT vs. RIGHT issue.. We are either going towards a total Government controlled population or we are going to stop the madness.

What happens when the Creditors tell you NO? If you used that credit to pay your bills then.. your property get's repossessed and you are forcibly removed from your home..

What do you think is going to happen to America when our creditors say NO MORE..

It's the same principle.. Almost every Economist has said we are flying off the cliff and the CRASH that is coming is going to make the "Great" Depression look like a minor speed bump.

We are already seeing a divestment of our T-Bills from China and they are going forward with their own system.. The FEDERAL RESERVE holds most of our debt..

We are pulling money out of one pocket shoving it into the other pocket and still thinking we are well off..

We are going broke and no one in this administration OR Congress has the cojones to say stop this train..

The only reason I can see for that is that it is DELIBERATE. WHY?

This is one of the problems..

President Obama said at the White House on March 3 that his plan will “bring down the cost of health care for millions – families, businesses, and the federal government.”

But the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) says health insurance premiums will continue their steady upward climb under the Senate bill. Families purchasing insurance in the individual market would see an increase of $2,100 in the year 2016, over and above increases they already will be facing. That means those families would be paying $15,200 in 2016 for health insurance if the Senate bill passes, and $13,100 if it doesn't. Galen Institute

meanoldconservatives
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JeffC

I always appreciate your analysis on politics. I wish you would contribute more of that insight.

Interesting fight within your party. They come together to annoint a king, but then revert to their own devices. In the interest of fairness, my own party has major problems too. Being in the minority, they are less obvious.

Now, do you really believe it will fail? If it does, will it be solely because of the left-wing single payer issue or will the Blue Dogs and anti-abortion Dems abandon ship as well? I know Queen Pelosi is feverishly herding the cats into the corral, but I think the Scott Brown election has posed a true dilemma for you guys. Buck Obama and his agenda or face the music at home, or in other cases vote for Obama's agenda and still face the music at home????

If you are correct, I will be thankful. Oh yeah, seen any good Pelosi or Reid jokes lately? I got a good Obama joke the other day, but I don't think Cal would allow it. I may search through the archives for others.

JeffC
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No MOC

I think the bill was lost 3 or 4 months ago because of them, pre Scott Brown. Now if it goes through by some parliamentary maneuver the Dems will rightly pay the price. Frankly, they lost me with the outrageous payoffs in Nebraska and Louisiana. If I were there, I wouldn't vote for this tainted bill as a matter of principle. The Reps share the blame, they abdicated any responsibility for governing forcing Obama to deal solely with the Dems. He needed every vote and instead of losing he dealt with each one granting whatever they wanted. A very bad strategy in my humble opinion. If it had been me, I'd've broken this bill into a dozen parts and implemented it in stages starting with cross state insurance, options to take insurance with you job to job, government subsidized pools for pre-existing conditions (Hey, I'm a liberal, remember), allowing private pools for small businesses or anyone else for that matter. etc. Enact some legislation, give it time to work, evaluate it, study the unforeseen consequences, then tune the legislation. It would probably take 10 years or more. I would have also told the crazies in both parties that they were crazy. Obama tells them that he read a study by the Rand Corporation that contraindicates 9 of their 12 points and that if they oppose him the he will give stern speech disambiguating their positions. I don't see any downside at all to bucking him. He hasn't shown me any consequences.

S. Lindsey
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Jeff.. Spoken like a true Liberal

NOT A PROGRESSIVE.. My humble Thanks..

meanoldconservatives
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JeffC

My only question to you would be...did the Reps really have another choice? I don't think the Dems were ever serious about a bi-partisan approach. I think they thought they could do it without the Reps. And by that I mean, do anything and everything they wanted with the bill. And it just became a gluttonous orgy of pork and deal-making, sprinkled with entitlements. They couldn't control themselves. It would appear that Obama and the Dems misread the opportunity they were given by the moderates and independents.

Love your strategy though. If they are determined to do something, that is the approach they should take now.

I also agree about Obama. They aren't really worried about Obama or his thugs. They are worried about November. Should be too.....

JeffC
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Now we'll disagree MOC and SL

The Republican Party has moved so far right that there is no moderate center anymore like my Blue Dog Dems, so there is no one on the other side to negotiate with. Not only that, there is a huge movement to purge the Party even more. Anyone deviating from a series of litmus tests is labeled RINO and driven from the Party. My Party's fringe will not agree with a moderate right position. No one on the R side will support Obama. It used to be that the government was basically centrist. Carter, Reagan, Bush and Clinton could all compromise around the middle leaning leftish or rightish according to their political persuasion. That doesn't happen now. When my Blue Dogs look for support across the aisle, there are no center to moderate Rs there to join with. If the Ds have to go it alone, they have to start between the center and the fringe instead of moderates on both sides joining to meet somewhere around the middle. Throw in an Obama, and the Ds have to move further left to get the votes to pass a bill.

Consider the aftermath of November. The Ds will probably retain a very slim majority in the House and Senate or lose one house. Pure gridlock. Nothing will get done. Now that may be good or bad depending on your view. I expect that budgets will pass, basically continuation budgets, and very little else. Without rehashing, the economic recovery, given the meltdown Obama inherited, has been remarkable. Unemployment always lags last but it should start improving this year. Then two more years until 2012 elections. In this year's elections, the Rs are going to move to the right. Obama is going to reap the results of the natural economic cycle recovery whether his policies had anything to do with it or not. The 2012 campaign from the Ds is going to be: look at the recovery, Obama's policies were responsible, the Rs were wrong and here are the ads with what they said, look at how radical the Rs are, if the Rs had been in control the auto industry and a slew of other would have collapsed or been sold overseas, unemployment due to the Bush policies is being overcome, we need to keep Obama for balance, etc.

Meanwhile, the Rs are fighting through bitter primary campaigns trying to appease the hard core base and the collection of conspiracy junkies, militia supporters, John Birchers, FairTaxers, and anti-taxers that make up the TEA lobby. Couple that with the upcoming battle between the TEA lobby and the social voting Rs who make up a large segment of the Party and will insist on a laser focus on electoral trivia like gay marriage, abortion, and immigration. The primaries can only fracture the Party further, there's no unity scenario. The nominee will end up way out of the center where elections are won.

Obama wins re-election hands down.

If Reed and Pelosi lose it helps Obama even more. The message expands to: we're cleaning up our Party. Let it be. Do you think Obama cares if Pelosi loses if he can use it to claim that the Party is now more centrist? National elections are won by attracting independents. How many independents does Pelosi bring in compared to how many she drives away? Considering just that, is she a positive or negative in a national election? No question; she's a negative and a big one. Defeat Pelosi and help Obama. Pick your poison.

meanoldconservatives
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JeffC

Actually Jeff, there is mostly agreement with your analysis. There is no doubt the Reps have major issues and most serious Reps would acknowledge that. There is good news though. Had you guys taken this majority plus the White House and worked from the center to do the people's business on jobs and the deficits, there would be very little hope any time soon. This has been a train wreck of a year-plus from Obama and Congress. Had the Dems in Congress used their heads, they could have passed a realistic health care reform. They could have created real jobs instead of creative math on supposed job creation with the stimulus. They could have mandated the stimulus be spent on real need rather than installing cross-walks and pedestrian signals at intersections that see one pedestrian annually, just to claim the money was spent. Obama's poll numbers speak for the perception of him so far. I pray your prediction on Obama's re-election is incorrect.

I think Reid is in trouble with his electorate, but not Pelosi. To your point the real question is, will the voters who bounce Reid (and the Dems who voted for this bill) take credit themselves for cleaning up your Party or will Obama somehow convince them that he pushed the levers for them in the voting booths??? I think the Scott Brown election proved this is not politics as usual.

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Jeff you are correct

this is where we part ways..

If you think the Republicans are moving hard right.. Then just where in heck did they start FROM???

Yes they are trying to woo the Teaparty. No big surprise there it is a block of voters after all.

But to say they have moved hard Right is to say Lindsey Graham is a Teaparty founder.. Not bloody likely..

I know your National view is differnet in some ways then mine.. YES GM would have been made to FAIL..

You see that's how the FREE MARKET works.. You have a business and screw it up... YOU FAIL.

They would have been much better off after failing then re-building their business WITHOUT the legacy pensions they agreed to.

Now they are being propped up by the Taxpayers.. Unions now control the business and still they SUCK.

"Failure is only the opportunity to begin again more intelligently." "Henry Ford"

I think he knew a thing or two about the subject

How long do you think they will survive after the Government stops propping them up?

I think you need to pull those Rose colored glasses off.. Remember just a few months ago when we were predicting a Dem defeat in November..? You disagreed and even asked for predictions?

Now you agree with us in saying they are going to lose it big time..

Just like then you will be shown wrong again.. AMERICA can't stand the debt.. and YOU KNOW IT.. Jeff. You of all people should be plugged in better than this..

If the debt continues unabated we will see a dollar crash and massive inflation.. Consumables will skyrocket in price. You will see France and Greece style riots here in the good ole US of A..

You already know this.. This administration knows it too. But what do they do?

Spend more.. Universal Healthcare Trillions.. Cap and Trade.. Trillions.. Universal Education.. Trillions.. and we march on. Like good little lemmings we march on..

Obama is going to be blamed, rightfully so, for the debt. Just like Bush was.. He is riding a fine razor's edge.. If one thing lets go one thing throws a wrench in and it all falls down and we go with him.

He is in my humble opinion the MOST DANGEROUS MAN IN AMERICA.

JeffC
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You're proving my point SL

I agree that Graham is no TEAnista. However, he is a Republican and has been serving as one since he was first elected in 1992. Now, after 18 years as an elected Republican, he is no longer acceptable to the base because the Party has moved so far to the right that the guy Strom Thurmond campaigned for is considered too liberal. Same with McCain. Any Republican that doesn't pass the series of hard right litmus tests is disparaged, attacked and ridiculed by the talk radio masters and their lemmings.

Your free markets purity is a fantasy and has been for a hundred years. You just blithely ignore the damage that would have resulted from the collapse of the financial system and American industries.

As to my predictions, I can't find them. A link would be appreciated. I think I predicted slightly above average losses for the party in power in an off year election with a maybe loss of one house which I doubted then and still do. Where have I said they were going to lose big time? If I have given that impression then I hope this clarifies my position.

Deficits, deficits, deficits. I've been consistently complaining here about them for almost four years. I bet I've posted forty blogs complaining about the deficits. I calculated just the increase in the interest payment at least ten times here and posted Greenspan's speech at least five times when he was complaining that the most serious problem the Fed faced was that Clinton was paying off the national debt too fast. Y'all just accused me of bashing Bush and ignored it. When Bush was President, everybody was following the Reagan administration line that "deficits don't matter". Accusing me of portraying the deficits otherwise is a figment of your imagination.

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Jeff.. As for the repubs go

they are like lost sheep on a plain filled with wolves.. Moving off of Center Right is not the way they are moving.. Oh a few are making noises but actually moving ones lips and actually putting into practice is two different things.

Jeff your Blue Dogs are in the same boat that you describe the rebubs are in.. The Soros, Michael Moore, progressive crowd blast anyone that does not adhere to their anti-free market.. anti-capitalist agenda.

If they say no to the bribes and actually stand on principles then they are smeared un-mercifully.

"OBAMA WAVES OFF LIBERALS: On the same day that MoveOn.org announced a new wave of ads to pressure centrist ...

... Democrats on health care reform, President Obama told Senate Democrats he wished "left-wing groups" would back off.

A White House official who was in the lunch tells POLITICO: "The President discussed how the current tone and culture in Washington made it more difficult than it has been in the past to work in a bipartisan fashion. In particular, he singled out Republican Senators who are trying to work in a bipartisan fashion even in the context of a vocal minority in their party who doubt that the President was born in the US. In this context about the less productive tone of the debate in Washington, he said he didn’t like to see 'left wing groups attack fellow Democrats.'"

On Tuesday morning, MoveOn.org unveiled a new set of radio ads airing in districts represented by Blue Dog Reps. Jim Matheson (D-Utah), Charles Melancon (D-La.) and John Barrow (D-Ga.)"

See my point..

"Submitted by JeffC on Fri, 11/20/2009 - 12:35am.
I'm asking for predictions here from everybody about 2010. Obama's a shoe-in for 2012, the dems will lose a few (and that is not a bad thing, there needs to be more balance) but less than the average for an off year election, and Obama's statement is not going to get KSM freed. Those are my predictions. Y'all can point back to them in a year if I'm wrong."

Your words Jeff...

Jeff.. the collapse of our Financial system would not have happened if GM were allowed to fail.. That's pure tripe and hyperbole. What happens to someone that is not allowed to fail.. THEY NEVER LEARN. Period and that's not open to debate...

GM is going to fail again.. MARK MY WORDs.. why? Because they have not learned anything in fact just the opposite. They have been propped up by the Taxpayers and given the business to the UNIONS..and they are still not making cars America wants.. Just when have any unions actually increased the bottom line? NEVER..

"Short selective memories

Submitted by JeffC on Mon, 02/09/2009 - 9:27pm.
Senate Democrats caused? What a laughable assertion. It's the Republican/Bush recession and 70% of the people know it. "

"1Bighammer

Submitted by JeffC on Wed, 04/02/2008 - 6:31pm.
"neither party has a stellar record when it comes to spending"

I am nominating you for understatement of the year!

The reason I complain about deficits is that I want it all to be paid for now so that people on both sides have to face up to the spending. No deficits! Pay for it now! If you don't want to pay then elect different people who won't spend. No one is more amazed than I am that it turns out to be that the Democrats are the best hope. And for all of you out there waiting to write something about liberal spending, please look back through every blog I have ever written and you will see that this has been my consistent position since that big bang created the world 4265 years ago."

"But Richard

Submitted by JeffC on Mon, 01/19/2009 - 9:52am.
You don't need original thoughts to be a conservative commentator. That's what those e-mail talking points are for. Embrace Reagan's conservative massive deficits and expansion of government and go for it."

The problem here Jeff is where are those RECENT comments about the DEBT NOW? Seems like DM and you have the same philosophy bad when Bush did it.. Not so bad now..

Where is your commentary on OBAMA and team Pelosi's deficits? Just asking..

Davids mom
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Jeff

3/26/10 - Bill passed! Never give up on Democrats in power. Obama and crew are evidently proficient at 'herding cats'. :-) Now we have to watch Congress as the Republicans try to 'repeal' a bill that Americans will soon learn will benefit them and their families - especially those who are in the 10-15% unemployed group. Job bills are next! I think party politics will be put aside to get this done. (I hope!)

Cyclist
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Hey Davids mom,

Meow.

Davids mom
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Cyclist, MOC, SL and other loyal conservatives

I do understand your point of view - even though I don't agree with it. You live in the 7th most conservative district in the country. Please take the time to see how others view your HEROS.

CLICK HERE!

YES WE CAN! YES WE DID! No meow - just sharing my point of view as you share yours. I'm not alone, nor in the minority. Don't underestimate the power of the young!

Hammer on - the discourse will be informative for all America!

AtHomeGym
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DM , that video using Representative Boehner's

"Hell no you can't!" uses it completely out of context. I just happened to be watching the activity on the House floor on C-SPAN when he made that speech. Now the video may be cutesy,but it's false cutting & pasting of words. Now I don't think that's something you'd do intentionally but someone conned you into believing that it was gospel----well, it ain't!

Davids mom
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AHG

Memories of Rev. Wright's videos - right? I too saw the speech on the House Floor. It's something the young people did to compare the two rhetoric’s. (Sarah Palin just included 'hell no' in her introduction of McCain today.) It's entertainment - not gospel. . .and no one will take it for that - I hope. But it worked pretty well with demonizing Rev. Wright. Oh well . . .

S. Lindsey
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Rev. Wright is a RACIST DM..

Plain and Simple..

You don't have to edit his films to prove that..

Davids mom
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SL

Then why did 'they' do it? Before those edited videos - he was just another minister. It was good media - and a chance to take down a viable candidate for president. . .however, it didn't work - did it? 'They' couldn't even tag Obama with the racist card - and boy - did 'they' try!

S. Lindsey
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DM.. his entire sermons are available on the internet..

We have 20 years of his hate whitey rhetoric.. He hates capitalism and is pro socialism..

Obama sat in those pews for 20years but said he never heard any of it?? I guess he might have been asleep..

Hang on DM I got one for ya..

Davids mom
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SL

We've had this discussion before. I've heard his sermons online and in person. He is an egotist who had his 15 minutes of fame (negative) - and it wasn't from his edited sermon - but from his pathetic performance at a press conference. Save your time and energy.

S. Lindsey
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WHAT BENEFITS???

You mean in 2014?????

Or do mean the benefits of all the new TAXES???

"Despite repeated promises that healthcare reform would not add “a single dime” to the taxes of the middle class, the massive Senate bill passed Thursday contains a variety of hidden taxes and tax hikes totaling at least $398 billion, according to experts.

National Review Online contributor Deroy Murdock wrote that the 2,457-page, $2.5 trillion healthcare package contains 12 new taxes and six tax hikes totaling $398 billion.

Americans for Tax Reform estimates seven of these tax hikes totaling $81.8 billion would violate the promises President Barack Obama made on the campaign trail last year. Obama said those making under $250,000 annually would not see their taxes raised by a “single dime.” "

"Republican Idaho Sen. Mike Crapo introduced an amendment that would have eliminated all taxes affecting those making under $250,000, but the Democrats defeated it. Only five Democrats voted for it.

This is what you guys WILL BE FACING IN NOVEMBER get the picture now DM?

"NYT: The Healthcare Bill Is A Gigantic Wealth Redistribution Scheme

A huge chunk of the revenue comes from payroll taxes on households making over $250,000/year.
If you make a $1 million/year, your taxes go up by about $46,000.
If you're a family of four making over $88,200 (4x the poverty level) there are basically no benefits for you.
And of course the obvious, this reverses the trend of fewer and fewer folks having insurance.
But... there is actually one big benefit to the wealthy, which Leonhardt points out, which is that before, even the wealthy had to worry about losing their health insurance for whatever reason. As some health policy analysts put it, prior to this, there was no insurance for insurance. Now there is.
"NYT

We are going to hammer you and Hammer you and Hammer you on this until November.. The American people will KNOW who was behind this.. You can bet on it..

normal
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this administration is getting old very fast

Every day barack and the boys bribe someone for a vote. How long must we put up with the scum in washington. OH I know, November elections will get rid of most of them. Have to wait less than 3 years to get rid of obama in that election though. He will enjoy working with all the Republicans next year. Serve him right for lying to us

Bonkers
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Qualified judge

As far as most people can tell the gentleman is fully qualified for the judgeship.

Actually it takes guts to propose a qualified appointee when you know some will use his brother's vote as a "bribe" enabler!
To propose well qualified members of your own party is not new for either party.
I would also suspect that the tea party also would not appoint Charlie Rangel to anything---now would they?

JeffC
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Great nomination!

Matheson is superbly qualified. He's a great nomination by Obama. He has been being vetted since last August and it was obvious that he was going to be nominated for the position way before any health care vote. The bribery accusations are just the typical and predictable smears from talk radio reverberating through the right-wing echo chamber.

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