The Presidential Campaign

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JeffC
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With two months to go and the Republican convention about to start, the Presidential race looks better for Obama.

Obama probably has CA, CO, CT, DC, DE, IL, MA, MD, ME, MN, NJ, NM, NY, OR, PA, RI, VT and WA for 230 delegates.

Romney probably has AL, AR, AZ, GA, ID, IN, KS, KY, LA, MO, MS, MT, ND, NE, OK, SC, SD, TN, TX, UT, WV and WY for 191 delegates.

That leaves the battleground states as: FL (29), IA (6), MI (16), NC (15), NH (4), NV (6), OH (18), VA (13) and WI (10).

Obama probably has NH (4) and NV (6) which gives Obama 240, needing only 30 more. That would be Florida and any other state.

Obama is ahead in OH (18) and IA (6). Without Florida but with Ohio and Iowa, Obama has 264 and wins with any other state.

Romney probably has NC (15) giving him 206 needing 64.

The battleground states come down to FL (29), IA (6), MI (16), OH (18), VA (13) and WI (10) with 92 delegates being contested.

If Obama wins Florida and any other state he wins even if Romney wins everything else.

If Romney wins Florida, and Obama wins any two of the bigger toss-up states, Obama wins.

Romney must win Florida and both Michigan and Ohio and another state or he has to win Florida and either Michigan or Ohio and two other states.

It is a very tough task for Romney and picking Ryan did not bring in a single new voter for him like reaching out to someone like Jindal, Rice or Rubio would have done. The Ryan selection looks more and more like a miscalculation and wasted opportunity.

Joe Kawfi
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JeffC

Nobody really cares what you and the rest of the bedwetting liberals think.
Go crawl back under your rock.

Obama will lose in November. He has shown his true colors to the American people and we will not put up with his crap any more. We are wise to his Marxist policies whose aim is to diminish the American dream and turn us into a third world country. It was the dream from his father.

Davids mom
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Jeff

You know what Jeff - maybe the 'king makers' in the Republican Party don't want to win this time - this economy is in such a mess. Obama leads in foreign policy, healthcare, women's rights, education, etc., etc., etc. I'm just pleased that the Democrats are fighting back against the Rove, Koch machine!! Romney's 'slip' regarding being born in the US turned off a lot of independents! The ignorance as expressed by the likes of Kawfi keeps seeping through.

JeffC
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Chris Christie was great

The Convention had a good night. Ann's speech was not what I expected but I thought she got better and better as it went on. Maybe a little over the top about women but that was her job and she was good.

Chris Christie was great. This was the first time I saw him give a big speech. I'm glad Romney didn't pick him as VP.

Don't worry about the other. Some people lead very sad lives of chronic failure. If they derive some amount of pleasure by commenting so crudely and rudely about me or my family then perhaps they are somehow happier.

BTW: David Koch is a delegate from NY. He's there on the floor keeping an eye on his investments.

Davids mom
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Missed it (the convention)

But recorded most of it. I keep getting questions about the uniforms of the 'color guard'. Oh well, I'll look at it tomorrow.

lion
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Deal and healthcare

Gov. Deal decided on a day when news was dominated by a hurricane and the Republican Convention to announce he has rejected the expansion of Medicaid which was part of Obamacare.

Deal had told the 650,000 Georgia citizens who could have had healthcare under the expanded Medicaid program that he and his fellow Republicans do not care about them and their health. Get sick and die. Georgia Republicans would rather see Georgia citizens do without healthcare than for them to appear to support any part of Obamacare.

This is the kind of pathetic and mean spirited leadership we get with a tea party dominated GOP.

S. Lindsey
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Lion one has to understand the "crack" in the pipe

Government makes it so easy for you to inhale... It's after the party that is always when reality of what you did shows up...

Just like the "Cops" on the street program.. or the "Rail" program, after the Federal i.e. taxpayer money is gone guess who get's to take up the slack.. That's right the State does.

The Medicaid program would almost bankrupt the States once the Federal/taxpayer pulls out... so what would you expect Deal to do? We just saw how well the Splost worked didn't we? Do you think we would accept another massive burden of taxes to pay for this as well?

Not likely....

AtHomeGym
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lion & medicaid

you throw that many more Georgians into that program and you'll do serious damage to the Physician supply. Many will refuse to accept medicaid pts because they can't survive on the piddly reimbursement.

Gort
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AHG, sound to me like

AHG, sound to me like Governor Deal is rationing health care? I wonder what state will get the Federal money Governor Deal turns down. Massachusetts or Illinois?

Gort
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AHG, sound to me like

AHG, sound to me like Governor Deal is rationing health care? I wonder what state will get the Federal money Governor Deal turns down. Massachusetts or Illinois?

AtHomeGym
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Gort & "rationing"

Another 'label' that is meant to be an attngetter. You do realize that this part ofthe AHCA deals mostly with 'eligibility', which each State manages differently. BTW, GovScott of FL also chose not to participate; new ruleswouldaddmore than one million to their eligibility pool. Of course I'm sure you knowthat Healthcare is available already to ALL--at the nearest ER--and we all help pay for that. States are already having funding crises and adding more costs could be disastrous for some. Hey, that's what Govs get paid to do--make decisions. If citizenry don't like them, they'll get a chance to elect someone else.

Gort
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AHG, they may treat you in

AHG, they may treat you in the ER but that’s not healthcare. Once you’re stabilized, out the door you go! They keep you waiting so long hoping you will “self deport” before they treat you.

In Georgia, Death Panels is a function of the Governors office. I wonder if the big insurance companies and health care providers will let the Governor leave that much money on the table.

Gort
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Lion, you are correct, it’s

Lion, you are correct, it’s despicable. As a percent of GDP the USA pays more for health care than other industrialized country and it covers less people.

S. Lindsey
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But yet...

Has the best Cancer to Cure ratio... Has the best survivability ratio... Has the best Hospital care per-capita ratio...Has the best Doctor care per-capita.. Has the best technology per-capita.. Has the most Hospitals per-capita... Has the most Doctors per-Capita and on and on and on...

Nah Gort all that money is wasted... Tell you what go to any other Country and get a MRI done in less then 24hours then come back and tell us how bad our System is.

Gort
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Really, rated 37th is the

Really, rated 37th is the best? Even if you give a 10 point handicap to appease the critics, we can’t say its number 1 and it still doesn’t reach all our citizens.

Go to the doctor, tell him you don’t have insurance, and demand an MRI in 24 hours and see what you get.

PTC Observer
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Hi Gort - What

What circumstances would lead to someone not having insurance?

Do you think that some of these circumstances could have something to do with their life choices? If so, why would you think it reasonable to force others to pay for these decisions?

Now don't get me wrong, there are people out there that need help, it is those where circumstance have happened to them not because of them. You guessed right Gort, it's not the government's role to help them. It is those that have open hearts and means that should and will help them, freely. Government does not help citizens because it is good and kind, it helps to increase power over its people. It is this power that corrupts the the American ideal of, of the people, by the people, for the people. It is this power that eats away at individual freedom, to the benefit of special interests and politicians.

So Gort, the idea that forced philanthropy is somehow moral and right, is in itself corrupt, because it is slavery to a mindless state.

Gort
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PTC_0, in the end, I don’t

PTC_0, in the end, I don’t think it has anything to do with philanthropy, I think it’s in our long term self interest.

The ‘corrupting force government’ I see are people like our Republican Gov. Deal using his office to block extending heath insurance to many citizens of Georgia.

As a percent of GDP the USA pays more for health care than other industrialized country and it doesn’t even cover all citizens.

As a capitalist, I would have thought you would be more concerned about the efficient use of capital. Maybe you’re more of a philosopher than a capitalist, eh?

Joe Kawfi
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Gort

What makes you think that Government can do a better job of spending taxpayer dollars for medical care?

The current administration can't even present a budget, and they have ruined Social Security and Medicare.

Gort
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Hey Joe, the private sector

Hey Joe, the private sector doesn’t offer a health insurance instrument that covers all citizens of the USA. The government is the only game in town.

Government and private industry are both run by people so there is no guarantee the bureaucracies in the public or private sector are any more or less efficient in one area than the another.

I don’t think the idea that one sector is always holy and the other always evil would stand up to an objective analysis.

NUK_1
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Efficient use of health care dollars

Who exactly has wasted all the health care money with burdensome regulations, a "50 state model" that caters to the whims of individual states and the federal government at that moment, Medicare and Medicaid? Don't think you can blame the private sector too much for that except for their greedy desire to participate in crony capitalism that was already mandated by government to begin with so they took advantage of it and knew how to "play the game." Look at how well Big Pharma immediately lined-up behind Obamacare and then tell me why that doesn't reek to high heaven.

Another reason that USA's health care costs are so far out of line with other countries is the fact that we have about 12million illegals in this country draining health care dollars(among a lot of other costs)that the rest of the 1st world is wise enough to not tolerate whatsoever. Let's see how long any of these 12million leeches last in all the other countries that are ranked well ahead of the USA in terms of cost vs. GDP. Hmmmm.......

Gort
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Nuk_1, we have Medicare and

Nuk_1, we have Medicare and Medicaid for the same reason we now have the Affordable Care Act. Too many people were denied healthcare because they can’t afford the cost of most treatments and priced, or denied coverage, by private insurance companies.

Personally I think it’s stupid for the government to have Medicare, Medicaid, and the Affordable Care Act all at the same time. I’m for single payer, Medicare for everyone, including the politicians!

You may call me a rebel if you want but I don’t think it’s the government’s job to insert a private insurance company between a patient and their doctor. 8 - )

PTC Observer
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Gort - Prior

Prior to 1966, the country did fine without government financed health care, in fact I seem to remember doctors actually visiting patients in their homes, rich and poor patients. Often they would come in the middle of the night. I was one of those patients, and I wasn't the rich one.

I too "think it's stupid for the government to have Medicare, Medicad, and the Affordable (sic) Care Act....."

No one will call you a rebel Gort, you are a conservative progressive. You would keep the government between the patient and their doctor. 8-)

Gort
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PTC_0, well we can’t very

PTC_0, well we can’t very well go back to 1966 now can we? Doctors no longer work out of the parlors of their homes and house calls ended when people fled from cities into the suburbs making house calls logistically impossible.

If you can afford to live in a gated community that offers house calls from a doctor as one of their services, well good for you, but the rest of us need something that’s a little more reality based.

Mmm, I'm a ‘conservative progressive?’ I can’t wait to tell my wife, Gortette.

Quote:

Gort: “Hey, Gortette, guess what, I’m ambidextrous!

Gortette: “That’s nice dear, take two aspirin, turn off Faux News, lay down on the couch for an hour, and you will feel better when you get up.

Davids mom
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Numbers of illegals

Just sharing a thought:

Quote:

While Congress facilitates outsourcing, insourcing and offshoring of American jobs by the thousands weekly, that same Congress imports 182,000 legal immigrant monthly who need jobs. Another estimated 100,000 illegal aliens arrive each month without jobs. All those immigrants seize jobs from American citizens at slave wages

.

WE NEED TO INFORCE EXISTING IMMIGRATION LAWS; DEVELOP A REALISTIC PATHWAY TO CITIZENSHIP PROGRAM; STOP THE SLAVE WAGES PROGRAM.

PTC Observer
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Gort - You're

a piece of work pal.

"our long term best interest." Really, do you actually believe this stuff?

I think quite the opposite, it is contrary to our long term best interest to have dependency on the government, it destroys individuals, families and countries. Just look at the USSR, you think that all those retirees under the Soviet block of countries enjoy a decent retirement?

Gort you really need to get out of Coweta County more often, try let's say Lithuaina. Go into the country side and ask those folks how many are enjoying their pensions and how they like the Russians for giving them "universal healthcare".

Have you read The Law yet? Guess not.

Gort
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PTC_0, yes I believe it.

PTC_0, yes I believe it. Lithuania? Come on, they only recently regained sovereignty and from what I read in the wiki, are working their way out of bind they are in.

Help me wash this liberal bias from the lens of my eye. Instead of Lithuania, point me to a country that fully embraces the economic principles you promote? What country would that be, eh?

PTC Observer
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Freedom Gort - Economic and personal

freedom go together best but unfortunately not always.

Here are the rankings on economic freedom. Lithuania did quite well but it is suffering its hangover because of past repression caused by socialist dogma.

http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

Gort
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PTC_0, Hong Kong is ranked

PTC_0, Hong Kong is ranked number one on your economic freedom list. You want the USA to be like Hong Kong? The free trade zone of The Peoples Republic of China! 8 - )

What do you think of Hong Kong’s medical system? One would think that would suck all the economic freedom out of a place that has a GDP of only $243 Billion.

S. Lindsey
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I will take the US system any day..

" Where you live plays a role in cancer survival, according to a new study that shows the U.S., Japan, and France recorded the highest survival rates among 31 nations for four types of cancer. Algeria had the lowest survival rates for all four cancers."MedMD

So US #1 in Cancer survive-ability...

Now let's look at Socialized Medicine...

"Cancer survival rates in Britain are among the lowest in Europe, according to the most comprehensive analysis of the issue yet produced." UK dept of Health.

Canada
"The 10-year survival rate is almost as high as the five-year rate — it's estimated at 58 per cent for cancers diagnosed in the 2004-2006 period." CFP

Also far below the US rate...

Gort
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SLindsey, I didn’t pick one

SLindsey, I didn’t pick one system over the other. PTC_0 sent me a link that ranked countries by economic freedom and Hong Kong was at the top of the list.

I just asked PTC_0 why the public/private medical system didn’t suck the economic freedom out of Hong Kong?

PTC Observer
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Hong Kong - Gort

Have you ever visited a public hospital in Hong Kong? I have, I would prefer to be treated in the US. Most citizens of Hong Kong that can afford it go to private doctors and hospitals. Just like it will end up in the USA, it will be those that can least afford the "universal" care, that will get it. Poor service, poor treatment, poor patient outcomes are the hallmark of government run health care.

No matter how much you might war to change things Gort, you can't change this reality. There will always be two levels of care, the question is how far must we diminish health care to achieve "equality"?

Gort
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PTC_0 and SLindsey

PTC_0, I just want to know why the public/private medical system didn’t suck the economic freedom out of Hong Kong?

SLindsey, success in treating cancers, in the USA, probably has a lot to do with public money dedicated to cancer research, eh?

PTC Observer
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Hong Kong - Gort

Didn't say Hong Kong was free, just at the top of the list. I would say that a private system supported by charities is the best system.

To the extent government is involved, it's less effective and more expensive.

Gort
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PTC_0, if private systems

PTC_0, if private systems supported by charities were enough, the need for Medicare, Medicaid, or Social Security would have never existed in the first place.

Once again, I ask you to help me wash this liberal bias from the lens of my eye. What country fully embraces the economic principles you promote?

S. Lindsey
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Well if you demand it...

...I doubt that you would get it.. However if ordered by the doc you would.

No one is denied care in our system Gort.. NO ONE.

AtHomeGym
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Demanding an MRI

About a dumb-ass example--some sort of specialist (neurologist/cardioligist) usually decides if an MRI is needed or not--and your medical history and current condition play a large role in that decision.

S. Lindsey
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That's the thing AHG...

...if it was ordered your ability to pay is irrelevant in our system.
It would still get done.. now you will of course get a bill for the services, unless covered under the many government entitlements, but if a service was provided shouldn't you be expected to pay?

Gort's premise is that without Obamacare people couldn't get care. Which of course is the typical argument to spend $1.6 Trillion dollars to cover 20 million people while leaving 30 million uncovered.

Yep typical Government efficiency in action.

JeffC
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Ryan's speech was dishonest

Ryan's speech was about as dishonest a speech as I've ever heard. I expected better from him.

Let's see what Mitt has to say.

kcchiefandy
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Well, JeffC...

...being an Obama worshipper, you'd know a dishonest speech if you heard it! ;-)

PTC Observer
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JeffC - You know

what they say JeffC, if a politician's lips are moving.......

It's a non-partisan trait.

Gort
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Newt and Callista looked like

Newt and Callista looked like the Vonage couple from Stepford, selling bundling packages on the television. I’m so glad they mentioned Jimmy Carter, now the Democrats are free to bring up the, BBBBBush at their convention next week.

How about that Paul Ryan last night? A great speech delivered with passion and precision. The only problem was Ryan was trying to sell so many Whoppers, Burger King is demanding that he buy a franchise!

Joe Kawfi
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Carter Failure

And a Carter would know a lot about failure now, eh el Jeffe?

JeffC
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See Joe

Savor the moment! Don't you feel more important now?

Gort
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Jeff C, my favorite part was

Jeff C, my favorite part was when Chris Christie was bragging on his dad using the GI Bill to go to college. I wonder if Christie realizes, that Government giveaway allowed his folks to afford a lifestyle that allowed him to get a good education and become Governor of NJ.

Who knows, without the GI Bill, Christie might be playing Snookie’s father on Jersey Shore!

S. Lindsey
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Gort..GI Bill a Government giveaway???

Oh I guess the payment in blood wasn't enough huh?

Gort
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SLindsey, really, tell me,

SLindsey, really, tell me, exactly how much blood Chris Christie risked?

S. Lindsey
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How much have you?

It is just as relevant.

You compared the "GI" bill to a Government handout. It was a stupid statement gort you might just want to let this one go....

MYTMITE
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The GI Bill was not a giveaway. It was earned by every service-

man/woman who put themselves out there and served their country. A giveaway in my book is something you have not earned, like giving Social Security benefits to people who come into this country and never work for it, i.e., the older Cubans who came to this country and almost immediately started collecting social security. I think putting your life on the line is payment enough.

Gort
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Mytmite, I agree, I was being

Mytmite, I agree, I was being sarcastic again. The GI Bill put me through college, I graduated without carrying any debt, and I never used up all my ‘entitlement.’ The increased earning power made a big difference in my families life.

No doubt about it, those Cuban’s refugees that got to collect social security as soon as they got here got a good deal. For years we been over paying social security and politician been using the money as a slush fund to redistribute wealth.

Now the ‘baby boom’ generation is starting to retire and it’s time to pay back the trust fund. But instead of paying back the money we got guys like Marco Rubio telling us we don’t deserve these entitlements!

BTW, do you know how much the Mormon refugees from Mexico got when they come back to USA?

kcchiefandy
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The GI bill...

...unless denied by the applicant, costs each recruit $100 per month for 12 months. It's success, and outlays for future students, is based on the fact that the whole of this entitlement is not fully used by the service member. Over the decades since its inception, through millions of service members, it has allowed for those who have used it all to obtain a higher education and/or advanced training and/or skills.

Gort
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Kchief, I didn’t have to pay

Kchief, I didn’t have to pay the $100 per month for my GI Bill. Neither did Wilbur Christie!

Nothing says we honor your service better than, “If you want the GI Bill, you got to kick back $100 per month.”

It sounds like Boss Tweed’s Tammany Hall doesn’t it?

kcchiefandy
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Gort, don't know...

...when the payment plan started, but a $1200 investment returning over $40,000 to you in educational funds is a pretty good payoff. That was for the Chapter 30 Vietnam-era GI Bill. The current Chapter 33 Post 9-11 GI Bill (for those serving from 9-11-2001) does not require the payments.

Gort
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Kchief, my son went into the

Kchief, my son went into the Army in ’98 when they had to kick back the $100 per month the first year. He told me the drill instructors ‘encouraged’ the boots to sign up for the GI Bill.

Still sounds like a Boss Tweed deal to me.

Davids mom
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The GI Bill

The stimulus to the American middle class.

kcchiefandy
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Or the fruits of their labor, DM...

...for the 1% of our nation willing and/or able to successfully serve in its military.

Davids mom
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You and many others

took that helping hand offered because of your service and joined the middle class. The GI Bill gave the tools to our military to insure a productive future. The 1%? During WWII the draft was still in operation - that was not a volunteer force/although many volunteered after Pearl Harbor. You must include the FAMILIES of the GI'S who benefitted from the 'hand up'. They also contributed because of the help their father,mother - received from the GI Bill. Right? The GI Bill should not be considered in the same thought as 'welfare'. More should be done to adhere to the Welfare to Work program. However, in this economy, it is not fair to discontinue the 'helping hand' when there are NO JOBS! IMHO

Davids mom
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Christie

Interesting. It took almost half the speech before he mentioned Romneys name!! He was passionate - about himself. (and I really like the guy!)

Joe Kawfi
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JeffC

Obama has made a mockery of U.S. soverignty. World Leaders no longer look up to us or fear the U.S. They now laugh at us because Obama has made the military so much weaker and ineffectual in the eyes of all the world. His sidekick Joe "gaff machine" Biden is the cruelest joke perpetrated upon the American people. His comment regarding "put y'all back in chains" of course endeared him to the far-left wing that Obama represents.

Obama's dismal failure in Middle East policy has opened up the doors for radicals to take over the entire region. Of course, that was his plan all along, for Obama himself is a RADICAL LEFTIST.

Obama is un-American and we now know that it was his goal as radical-in-chief to make the U.S. weaker so that other countries could be made strong.

It was, after all, the dream that he has carried on from his anti-colonialist father.

Davids mom
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Interesting comment
Quote:

Obama is un-American and we now know that it was his goal as radical-in-chief to make the U.S. weaker so that other countries could be made strong

What was the goal of the all-American Texan from the Republican Party? How will Rove's guidance be different for Romney?

PTC Observer
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JeffC - It is

It is true, you can never underestimate the stupidity of the American voters.

Look what they have wrought in their self governance.

Davids mom
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The Omnipotent One
Quote:

It is true, you can never underestimate the stupidity of the American voters.
Look what they have wrought in their self governance.

Wrought? Over 200 years of humans whose origins are from all over our planet living peacefully with one another with the exception of the loss of the native American freedom and the Civil War. Our peaceful change of governance is the envy of many.

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Christie was great and so was Ann Romney

Christie as VP would make a huge (pun intended) difference. NJ, possibly NY and I see him helping in FL.
In fact Christie can still help by giving Romney a personality transplant and some speech coaching. Better yet, just let Christie read Romney's speeches and all will be well.

I think Romney will carry WI and NH himself, but a Christie VP pick would have been great.
And, you are right. Ryan as VP didn't really change anything.

Of course we always have to remember that these elections will be decided by people who haven't been paying attention up til now and may not even pay attention for the next 2 months. Unfortunately we have so many unemployed people in all states that it may be up to them to pick the next President. Tough decision for some - keep my current benefits which might expand under Obama or take a job that might get created under Romney.

I was happy to see Condi Rice being displayed right next to Mitt. Secretary of State, maybe?

JeffC
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Condi says no but...

Even if Mitt gets Wisconsin and New Hampshire he still needs 50 more delegates.

Obama is ahead right now and the convention is dull. There isn't going to be much of a bounce.

Mitt just isn't inspiring. His campaign is drifting from one irrelevant issue to another spending days talking about contraception and abortion instead of the economy If he were a real leader, they would not have put the Akins Amendment in the platform playing right into the war on women charge by the Obama people. He got bullied into picking Ryan to assuage the TEAs who should have supported him anyway. Since his positions on issues are still almost nonexistent even after campaigning for six years, he has been assigned Ryan's economic package which the Obama people will deconstruct line by line and which Mitt will spend the next month answering every point he disagrees with in Ryan's budget.

PTC Observer
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JeffC - Are

you running scared? Sounds like it.

Watch the congressional results, that's where the rubber will meet the road.

S. Lindsey
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They all are PTCO

That is why they are sounding so desperate. Trying to see what sticks don't think it is going to work very well... they tried it in 2010 and it didn't work out so well for them.

The American People are just not as stupid as they think they are.

PTC Observer
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Lindsey - I can't wait

to see VP Biden deconstruct Ryan's economic package in the VP debate, line by line. JeffC is smoking some funny stuff, or he's just being funny. I can't figure out which one.

kcchiefandy
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PTCO...

...I've always wondered why so many of those evil bank's credit card divisions were based in Delaware - I know many of the offers I get & my cards are based out of there. Wouldn't you think a SENATOR from that state would have some influence over how those evil banks operated from within HIS state? Just sayin'...maybe I'm way off-kilter on how all that goes down in the big $$ business...

PTC Observer
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Chief - Delaware Corporations

All corporations are state sanctioned as individual entities and each state has a set of laws that set governance over corporations as individuals. This includes the right to sue, go bankrupt, pay taxes, etc. They aren't individuals naturally but under the law they have rights of individuals and generally their management can't be sued individually for actions they take on behalf of the corporation. For example, until Sarbains Oxely you couldn't sue a member of management as an individual in a public company under state incorporation law. That is what caused the backlash at Mr. Romney's statement that "corporations are individuals too", under the law in all 50 states, Mr. Romnney is correct, corporations are considered just like an individual person.

The reason you see so many businesses incorporated in Delaware, including banks is because, the laws of incorporation are stronger in Delaware than any other of the remaining 49 states. Meaning that it is extremely difficult to "pierce the corporate veil" to get at the management, so you must sue the corporation.

Nebraska is also a favorite for incorporation for credit card companies that use the state laws to incorporate for the purpose of pursuing those late payers.

Gort
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We know Paul Ryan can give a good speech

but looks weak on the campaign trail when a real reporter asks him a question.

He won’t have his teleprompter with him during the debate. I imagine Ryan will do at least as well as Michele Bachmann or Rick Perry did during the GOP primary.

NUK_1
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Gort: LOL

Teleprompter king Obama remind you of anything? "I-I-I-I-I- am a working-working class warrior?" Or, You didn't build this." Really brilliant when he speaks off the cuff.

As far as intellect goes and how the debate between Ryan and Biden will play out, we'll see. Biden is a real dumbazz that has been busted twice for plagiarism as well as lying about his highly-inflated college credentials. Biden sucks. I'm not even getting into all of his gaffes that show how much of a dimwit he is, but Ryan will likely eat him alive in the debate. No one will really care either way.

I'm voting Gary Johnson Libertarian Party and you partisan Repubs/"conservatives" and Dems/"progressives" can go ahead and enjoy your race to the bottom. I'd rather see Romney in office than Obama, but I have a really hard time telling the differences between the two.

tonto707
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NUK_1

I am thinking Obama's whole life has been scripted, long before he learned how to use a teleprompter. Essential documents have never been produced to account for much of his life, ie, birth place, college grades, student status (it's known that he claimed 'foreign student' status) and no one found that can remember him at any college he claims to have attended.

It's time to script him out in November 2012.

PTC Observer
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NUK_1 - really hard time telling the differences

Mr.Romney is the rich white guy and Mr.Obama is the "Getting Richer" black guy. Mr. Romney used his own ideas and creativity in the private market to accumulate wealth and Mr. Obama by being a government worker, politician and a lot of hot air is collecting tidy sums of money for book deals.

Gary Johnson is on how many states' ballot? I guess he's the guy that stands on principles and has stars in his eyes? Isn't he that guy that referred to his dog in one of the debates and was never asked back? Owning partly to the fact that he stole the line? Clearly, this makes him qualified for VP not President, Presidential candidates don't get caught stealing other people's stuff.

NUK_1
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PTCO: Johnson on 42 states right now

plus the cesspool known as the District of Columbia. LP is having their usual fight to get on the ballot in every state and this time around are getting a lot of hassle from the Repubs trying to keep them off. One thing both Dems and Repubs 100% agree on is that no one else besides themselves should be on the ballot.

Johnson was gov of New Mexico and I don't think is a "fringe candidate" with his ideas and positions. Obviously, way too forward thinking and way too liberty and freedom-oriented than the mainstream media or voter can handle, but it has to start somewhere. Eventually, people will in fact get sick of ridiculous "wars" on themselves, "Patriot" acts, and a far overreaching government.

PTC Observer
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NUK_1 - The LP has

it all wrong, they need to infiltrate the Republican party. I think they have done so in the case of the Paul's and the Tea Party. If they don't merge they will not get any of their agenda in place. How many Party members sit in Congress? Not many, but if they would run as Republicans it is highly likely that they will get elected. Do you think Rubio is actually a Republican? I don't think so at least not in the fiscal sense, socially he may be a moron, I don't know. So my message to the LP is to merge or remain irrelevant, They need to change the Republican party from within.

NUK_1
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PTCO: Agreed

I've been waiting for the merging of the LP to the Republican Party for many years and thought it was gaining some steam when the various tea party groups sprung up, but it's still a ways off. Ron and Rand Paul(or even a Neal Boortz) definitely have made some inroads in this area but, like I said, ain't happening too soon without some prodding from the people, voter or non-voter. Repubs are so in love with the evangelical base that it makes it very tough and there is also the underlying war-mongerism some Repubs secretly or not-so-secretly desire and power lust to control government in order to tell everyone else here and abroad what to do.

PTC Observer
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NUK_1 - All really good

points here, but we have to start somewhere. The Republicans must be persuaded that by design there is a separation of church and state. That ones moral convictions stand higher than the state, but the state cannot be used as a tool of advocacy for any religious position. If government is used in this way by the evangelicals then those that advocate the other way ultimately will use the state to suppress religion itself. The state is force, force is power and the state's nature is to suppress individual freedom.

As to war making, we agree completely. We stand as a beacon on a hill only when we stand for peace through defensive strength and superior fire power. Let no country attempt to take our freedom or property by force and stay out of foreign entanglements. Fight our fight through competitive free trade.

Pardon my passion on this, again, I am preaching to the choir I assume but I can't help myself.

Gort
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Nuk_1 and PTC_0, the

Nuk_1 and PTC_0, the Republican Party will never give the Libertarian’s or the Religious Right more than crumbs and sound bites to keep them placated and voting for them.

As soon as Libertarian’s or Religious Right demand more, the Republincan Party will buy primaries, change the rules, and even bargain with Democrats to keep you in line. They already have the Libertarian’s calling out the Religious Right so they can play one against the other.

The Republican’s have a propaganda machine in place that will release the hounds on anyone that gets in its way. It’s all part of the cost of doing business.

Robert W. Morgan
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Biden Ryan debate

Everyone is going to enjoy it, but a good loyal little liberal soldier as moderator plus a CNN or NBC hosting could give Biden enough cover to mostly hide his buffonuory. I predict Mr. Ryan will be frustrated about how little of actual substance is discussed.

Gort
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Nuk_1, you got me! I used

Nuk_1, you got me! I used that ‘teleprompter’ gag on Ryan because it was used on Obama so many times. It was a target of opportunity I couldn’t resist.

Joe Biden may, or may not, be everything you say but I seen him debate on TV with Sarah Palin and he’s not too shabby. Biden couldn’t be too aggressive with Palin or it would look bad in front of the cameras. This time Biden won’t be debating with one hand tied behind his back at a time when Ryan is stepping back from his own plan to put senior citizens into poverty.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying Ryan is a slouch. I’m sure he’ll do as well as Sarah Palin or Dan Quayle.

PTC Observer
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Sarah Palin Gort?

Why Gort, anyone could do well against Sarah Palin.....even you! As a matter of fact you could do quite well against Mr. Quayle too. Now Ryan? Hmmm....I don't think so.

I can't wait for Mr. Biden to get "too aggressive" with Mr. Ryan, it will like Mr. Ryan is attacking an unarmed man. So, maybe Mr. Ryan will have to go easy on the "old guy". I don't know but I think knowing which State you happen to be in at the debate will help Mr. Biden, along with keeping his foot out of his mouth.

Gort
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PTC_0, we will know for sure

PTC_0, we will know for sure when the debate actually takes place, eh?

Besides, if Joe does put his foot in his mouth, so what, it’s expected, and it still robs the news cycle away from Romney/Ryan.

You may be right about one thing, Ryan does have a reputation as a notorious ‘brown-noser’ and may indeed go easy on Biden.

NUK_1
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No one votes for a Vice President anyway

VP choices are designed to cater to the whole base or a segment of the base and not really to convince anyone else. I can't think of any prez election that was ever decided by the quality or even lack of quality of a VP. Thomas Eagleton had to step down as nominee before the election and that's the most notable besides Benson zinging Quayle that I can remember. Of course, Bush-Quayle won that one election anyway which again shows how meaningless the VP is to anyone outside the base already being catered to.

Still, it should be interesting to watch Biden vs. Ryan and then the eternal subsequent spin by everyone.

Robert W. Morgan
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I do believe Johnson made a big difference for Kennedy

and I think Bush helped Reagan, although nobody noticed because they didn't have a strong opponent. But aside from that it never seems to matter. Certainly not this time.

I kinda liked the old way when 2 guys ran for President and the loser had to serve a term as VP. Talk about really losing an election. Can you imagine the excitement? Kennedy/Nixon, Reagan/Carter, Clinton/Bush the elder and coming up President Mitt Romney and VP Barack Obama. I can see it now "Hey, Barack, get in here, got a funeral for you to attend - somewhere in Africa. Remember - no bowing!"

mudcat
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Good idea on the way to select a VP

You know what really bothers me? Romney is the only one on that illustrious list that actually ran a business and did so with great success. I guess you could count peanut farming and movie actor if need be, but a list pretty heavy will professional politicians and light on business savvy. I don't think that is a good thing.

PTC Observer
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Yes, indeed Mudcat

a very good idea that was changed by the Twelfth Amendment in 1804 given the fights between Jefferson and Adams. The balancing impact of infighting in the Executive branch being naturalized by political parties and professional politicians.

mudcat
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So now is maybe a good time to dump the 12th Amendment

Jefferson and Adams eventually made up, carried on a long and interesting postal correspondence and died on the same day 50 years after the DOI was signed. Lessons there to be learned.

I seriously doubt any of the wussies in Washington have the stones to overturn an Amendment to the Constitution, so that's just dreaming. I also doubt any of the Founders thought that it would be a good idea for the First Lady to have 70 staffers or for the President to need to build an office building next to the White House to contain his hundreds of staff.

PTC Observer
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How true Mudcat but,

let's start with the 16th and 17th Amendments and repeal them first, they have caused more damage I am afraid.

Gort
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If Obama peeled an onion, you

If Obama peeled an onion, you would want to repeal it!

8 - )

NUK_1
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Gort: LOL

Were you a fan of the TV show Hee-Haw? You need a fence board hitting you in the backside after the cornball joke :)

Gort
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Nuk_1, who could resist the

Nuk_1, who could resist the allure of Hee Haw?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da8sZyXeHn8

tonto707
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Ryan will

symbolize fiscal conserativism and draw a lot of votes from people who vote only their pocketbooks.