Mitt Romney Pay’s less than 1% in Federal Taxes

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kcchiefandy
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So, Gort...

...President Lincoln was a shill for the 'banksters'? Maybe a Stovepipe hat denoted something different than a Top hat. Didn't Tweed derive his power by intimidating, buying, bullying, bribing, and controlling the ignorant and/or downtrodden populace for votes and rewarding followers/supporters with favors, such as government jobs, contracts, kickbacks, etc...? Sounds like Chicago for the past 50 years or so...

If you'll review history, you'll find Tweed was government at it's finest - controlling ALL economic activities and being cow-towed to by those 'banksters' so they were ALLOWED to do business - by HIS rules - in the area HE ruled. Out-of-control government is merely an instrument of big business & banking; Obama sucking up to those Wall Street demons for campaign $$ is certainly proof of that - politicians of all ilks need them like an addict needs Meth. Imagine that, a Tweed machine on the Federal level...sounds great, doesn't it?

Gort
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Kchief, for some reason, I

Kchief, for some reason, I think Lincoln’s backing came from railroad interest but I really don’t remember. If you say bankers, that’s okay with me.

Nice description of Tweed though. Sound likes Carl Roves American Crossroads or Dick Armey’s FreedomWorks, eh? (Except for the bribery part, we call them campaign contributions and PAC money these days but its’ pretty much the same thing.)

So you think Obama is sucking up to bankers? Ha! Ha! Ha! I thought bankers hated all Democrats because Dodd/Frank won’t let them to steal from their customers?

Anyway, IMHO, Romney, Ryan, Republican’s generally, and the TeaParty in particular, are more like the “Gangs of New York” of years past.

kcchiefandy
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Well, Gort...

...ALL these big-time pols suck up to the money, no matter how they have to. It's the disgusting side of the democratic process; freedom to sell yourself to the highest bidder. It's played by both sides of the aisle, but there are grass-roots inroads building to stop 'business-as-usual' by our Pols. Libertarians & Tea Partists are a small start to changing the status quo of our nation's 2-party system, which even Washington (the Prez, not the city) thought was a bad idea.

Davids mom
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KC

It often appears that the Libertarians and SOME Tea Partists are willing to throw out the baby with the bath water.

kcchiefandy
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That may be needed, DM...

...to right this ship. The obvious stalemate between the current parties aren't getting us anywhere. Maybe the Tree of Liberty needs to be refreshed...

Davids mom
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KC - LOL

I along with others may reply - OK, just don't throw me out!!

kcchiefandy
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Your's won't be, DM...

...the blood of a tyrant, so you should be safe! If portions of our current government get more tyrannical, it may be time for such action!

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Kchief, if the TeaParty and

Kchief, if the TeaParty and Libertarian’s ever do become a threat to moneyed up special interest, they will do to the TeaParty and Libertarian what they did to Tweed. Get him out of the way.

You think not? Did Romney win the Republican primary or was it bought? Who bought it for him? Not the TeaParty or Libertarian’s.

kcchiefandy
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Those groups, Gort...

...are more than one man & his cronies; at the very least they're making a statement that the 2-party system has become corrupted by special interests and they want change. The Tea Party has seated reps in Congress, so it's more than just a passing phase...hopefully.

Romney hasn't won the nomination yet, and like any major candidate - Obama included - they've all been bought.

Gort
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Kchief, the TeaParty has an

Kchief, the TeaParty has an effective presence in the US House. If campaign reform is a real goal of the TeaParty, why don’t we see any campaign reform coming out of the house?

kcchiefandy
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Because, Gort...

...they're by far - right now - in the minority, and will probably stay that way, especially if they ever truly threaten the 2-party system. If that happened, you'd REALLY see the GOP & Dems work together!! You're basically saying 'people have been cured of cancer; why isn't the nation cancer-free?'

Gort
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Kcheif, I can see Rep/Dem’s

Kcheif, I can see Rep/Dem’s working together, it's been done in the past. They don’t work together now because the Republican Congress has taken the position to obstruct the POTUS from the day he was sworn into office. The Republican position is, ‘our way or no way’ and the TeaParty has been leading the cheer every step of the way.

rolling stone
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Gort, and just across the Mediterranean

we find this news:Romney Persona Non Grata In Italy For Bain’s Deal Skirting Taxes

From Bloomberg.com:
Mitt Romney skipped Italy on his swing through Europe. That was probably prudent.
That’s because Bain Capital, under Romney as chief executive officer, made about $1 billion in a leveraged buyout 12 years ago that remains controversial in Italy to this day. Bain was part of a group that bought a telephone-directory company from the Italian government and then sold it about two years later, at the peak of the technology bubble, for about 25 times what it paid.

Gort
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Rolling, that doesn’t

Rolling, that doesn’t surprise me at all. Romney knows all the angles on how to funnel money into his own pocket.

Now he’s running for president and working a deal that would allow him pay less than 1% in taxes. It’s called the Paul Ryan, GOP, Roadmap to Prosperity. They already passed it in the House, if it ever gets through the Senate, Romney has enough 'digits' to sign it into law if he's successful in buying the election.

First they kill Medicare and then they funnel the money to the pinstriped banksters, international gambling tycoons, and Texas oil boilers! It’s a cold, bold, plan if you ask me.

MYTMITE
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So, isn't that what business is all about. Should he have

sold it for what he bought it for? Would you? Would I? Don't know about you but I certainly would have gone for the 25 times original price. That called good business--

rolling stone
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Good deals

Well perhaps if Mr Romney were to go to Italy they would make him a deal he can't refuse. A great foundation for a foreign policy at the very least.

Gort
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Rolling and Mytmite, I don’t

Rolling and Mytmite, I don’t have a problem with Romney making a profit selling a business he bought.

I just wonder why Italy needed an intermediary, like Bain capital from Massachusetts USA, to buy the telephone directory business from the Italian government just to turn around and sell it to the Italian telephone company. The deal smells like a dead anchovy to me.

MYTMITE
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Gort, I know it was a rhetorical question but I have no idea why

Italy used an intermediary. That's probably why Mitt is very rich and I am very middle class. From what I see, read and hear I think a large percentage of all business deals would not pass the smell test--especially those dealing with our leaders. It's a shame but that seems the way the ball bounces.

rolling stone
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I wish sweet potatoes were this easy to dig up:

Romney’s Bain Yielded Private Gains, Socialized Losses

From bloomberg.com:

By Anthony Luzzatto Gardner - Jul 15, 2012
Mitt Romney touts his business acumen and job-creation record as a key qualification for being the next U.S. president.
What’s clear from a review of the public record during his management of the private-equity firm Bain Capital from 1985 to 1999 is that Romney was fabulously successful in generating high returns for its investors. He did so, in large part, through heavy use of tax-deductible debt, usually to finance outsized dividends for the firm’s partners and investors. When some of the investments went bad, workers and creditors felt most of the pain. Romney privatized the gains and socialized the losses.
What’s less clear is how his skills are relevant to the job of overseeing the U.S. economy, strengthening competitiveness and looking out for the welfare of the general public, especially the middle class.

PTC Observer
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Rolling - Tax benefits

So who's to blame if this is actually correct?

Is it Mr. Romney or a government that is so corrupt it writes tax laws to benefit the few at the expense of the many? Saying that you paid your taxes in accordance with the tax law is akin to saying the government made it legal to steal, so it's OK.

While you may blame Mr. Romney for using the tax law to his benefit, who on these pages doesn't? The answer to this is to simplify the tax code and remove the government for deciding who "deserves" to get money from the citizens' pockets. We can most effectively do this by reducing the size and scope of government.

Let freedom ring!

rolling stone
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PTC Observer - who's on first?
Quote:

So who's to blame if this is actually correct?

The primary assertion of the article about Italy is that for whatever reason, Mitt Romney is a persona non grata there. It is way beyond me to unravel that deal, it would probably be easier to put smoke particles back where they came from. From my perspective skipping Italy on his European visit was not the action of an innocent man. The term leveraged buyout was initially used to describe that activity, but that term became so toxic that the sugar coating of private equity was adopted.

PTC Observer
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Rolling - I

I am not defending Gov. Romney, but I am trying to make a point about our tax codes and how Democrats and Republicans have used it to further their interests. If you want Mr. Romney and all the fat cats to pay their "fair share", then reform the tax code to make it very, very simple. Don't keep tax loopholes in place to benefit the few at the expense of the many.

So, I ask again.....who's to blame when Mr. Romney pays 1% or 12% or nothing at all? Yes, your correct! It's us, we allow it because in many instances we are part of the "special interest". Each "deduction" we cut out of the tax owed is just another way of paying someone off.

rolling stone
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PTC Observer: oh, that country's tax codes
Quote:

If you want Mr. Romney and all the fat cats to pay their "fair share", then reform the tax code to make it very, very simple.

I do, I do want everyone to pay their fair share, therefore, for starters, I do not want Mitt Romney to be POTUS. I am a simple man, fiscally conservative, socially liberal, and I fear the right more than the left at this point.

PTC Observer
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Rolling - you

should fear them both, because the government's role in our lives is out of control.

Gort
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Mytmite, I’m middle class

Mytmite, I’m middle class too, I’m proud of it. I refuse to ‘chain’ myself to the idea that there is something wrong with working for a living. Nor will I allow it to ‘shackle’ my voice when I speak out against moneyed up special interest. 8 - )

MYTMITE
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know what you mean. I worked all my life and to a certain

extent are still doing it. Never got rich but never was on the 'dole', if I can't/couldn't afford it, didn't buy it. I don't feel anyone owes me a living and I also don't feel anyone who did make a bundle owes me anything. But, I can always say honestly that I always have paid my own way. Seems like you feel the same way.

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Mytmite, I don’t think anyone

Mytmite, I don’t think anyone owes me but I don’t accept moneyed up special interest stacking the deck against me either.

*inserted the word 'interest' above.

PTC Observer
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Gort - Answer

It was going broke, Bain bought it, downsized it, made it profitable and the buyer then saw value in buying it back. That's what private equity groups do, they fix broken businesses or buy good businesses and make them better. They sell these businesses at a profit.

It's called risking your investment for higher returns than the next best option. Now get this, Gort they do this to make profits, very basis of our economy, no matter how "unfair" you believe this process, it is the only process that works based on human nature.

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PTC_0, Italy was going broke?

PTC_0, Italy was going broke? The article I read made it sound like the international equivalent of the West Fayette Bypass!

I don’t know how much money Romney risked personally, I would have to see his tax returns! What’s the chance of that happening? 8 -)

PTC Observer
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Gort - No

A division of the nationalized phone service was going bust. It was "spun out", revamped by private equity and the phone service re-purchased it.

BTW, the government of Italy is broke. A fact that will be felt by you and all Americans very soon, as the European financial system collapses. Then we will be in for a very rough ride here in the States. Don't think it can't or won't happen here.

And you know what? It doesn't matter one wit who is elected President, it will happen either way.

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PTC_0, Italy is always going

PTC_0, Italy is always going broke because they have a weak, chaotic, central government. (I thought you would admire that about Italy?)

My guess is, the pretence of why it was sold is as you say. I think it was just part of the out-source fever going around the world and someone figured out how to make a fast buck out of it. Bain was used to funnel the money to itself and the people pulling the strings. Now the telephone directory exists in a corporate bureaucracy instead of a government one, big deal. Not everyone in Italy thought it was a good deal.

My opinion on rough times ahead is this. The USA is not broke, it’s being choked. The people doing the choking are the Republican Party and it does make a difference who you vote for.

S. Lindsey
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So printing money and spending money is the answer

darn those fiscally conservative Republicans...

Gort
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SLindsey, if you stop taxing

SLindsey, if you stop taxing capital gains, won’t that make the Federal deficit worst?

S. Lindsey
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A corresponding decrease in CG increases taxes Gort

I know Economics is not your strong suit gort but as those that invest in businesses have more money to do so then businesses have CAPITAL to expand and well guess what pay MORE TAXES....

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Slindsey, what you say may be

Slindsey, what you say may be true if there was a lack of capital in the markets but the fact is, business is holding lots of capital, but they don’t see increased demand for products and services, so they are not investing.

At this particular time it would be wiser to cut the taxes on workers to increase demand for goods and services and increase taxes on capital gains to get all those job creators to actually create some jobs.

S. Lindsey
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Well there's that Laffer Curve again

I agree cut taxes across the board... Historically speaking it has always increased revenue to the Government.

Gort
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Too simplistic, you sound

Too simplistic, you sound like the guy that drills a hole in the bottom of boat to let the water out. Targeted cuts and revenues is what I’m voting for.

S. Lindsey
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Targeted Cuts to whom?

and who decides..?

When has that ever worked?

These are the questions do you know the answers?

PTC Observer
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Gort - Nope

you're wrong, the USA is broke too. Paraphrasing something I read recently, we just have the cleanest shirt in the dirty laundry bag.

We're in for trouble Gort......you heard it first here. Save your pennies, the metal in them will be worth a lot more than the money.

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PTC_0, what kind of trouble

PTC_0, what kind of trouble you talking about, inflation?

PTC Observer
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Gort - Inflation

Yes, inflation among other things. Today inflation rages but our government has seen fit to remove energy and food from the inflation calculation and it calls it "core" inflation. Core inflation is held down primarily because of housing related activities. However, what do we use most? Plywood or food? Kitchen sinks or gasoline. Holding down inflation if pretty easy under these circumstances, this winter we will see unprecedented increases in food and energy prices but core inflation is likely to remain low. Unfortunately for most Americans it will mean choosing between eating and driving. There's a lot about inflation that I could go on and on about but it is essentially a tax on savers, the government knows this, most Americans don't even think about it. If you want to extract wealth from the population you simply increase the money supply making savings worthless.

While hyper-inflation will happen, it is just among a group of things that will happen to the world economy. Including the collapse of the banking system as we know it. Bankrupted nations living in poverty as their money becomes worthless will be another world issue. A weaken US financial system burdened by the collectivists' actions against it.

Then, of course there will be the social and cultural consequences of all of this government mismanagement of the economy. We are in for big trouble Gort.

"What good fortune for governments that the people do not think." - A Hitler

S. Lindsey
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PTCO Hitler was right

just saying...

Gort
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PTC_0, well I'm not ready to

PTC_0, well I'm not ready to go to the bunkers yet. What personal strategy have you developed to protect yourself from the upcoming apocalyptic picture you describe?

PTC Observer
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Gort - Well

that's personal Gort. ;-)

But elemental to your question is "protect yourself", and your family of course. You're a bright guy. You can figure it out when you get "ready to go the bunkers".

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PTC_0, don’t be shy, you can

PTC_0, don’t be shy, you can tell us,..seeds and ammo? 8 - )

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PTC_0, don’t be shy, you can

PTC_0, don’t be shy, you can tell us,..seeds and ammo? 8 - )

Davids mom
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Inflation?

We learned that unchecked inflation is a mistake. Are we capable of correcting the economy - and CHECKING the inflation? Or will we make the mistake and enjoy the results of inflation until we go over the cliff again?

Davids mom
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Venture capitalist/Romney

Romney is a venture capitalist. In venture capitalism there are winners and losers. IMO Romney's plan for America: the rich are the winners and the middle class, minorities, and women are the losers. Romney is good at his job. He's done nothing illegal.

Davids mom
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Mytimite - 25 times?

Opportunity or greed? Does one need a 25 times profit? Isn't that what is taking us too close to the cliff now? A big discussion today on the shrinking of the middle-class in the US - and the expansion of the SUPER RICH. I think they still teach 'ethics' in business. All profit in business is not 'ethical'. All 'good' business is not necessarily ethical. How about 10 times? (LOL)

MYTMITE
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DM, do you really mean to tell me that if you bought your house

for a relatively small sum and all of a sudden things boomed and the market went wild you would not ask and take 25 times what you paid for it? Even you would know this was foolish. After all it is free enterprise. No one held a gun to the head of the purchaser.

Now if we were talking about there being only a small amount of food which I owned and people were hungry, I would like to think that I would sell that at a reasonable price and in some instances even give some away to those who were starving. That is not the scenario we are discussing.

And no, I do not think that is what has brought us too close to the cliff--in my estimation what has brought us too close to 'the cliff' is a society that has come to expect good old Uncle to take care of them, and of course the only way Uncle can do that is from taxing and taxing again. I imagine right about now you will bring up the economy and the jobless rate, etc. Well, way before we got to this place there were those too willing to let others carry the load. This country was born on the basis of free enterprise and if you could make a fortune you were to be commended. Today, if you make a fortune there are those that think you have no right to it even if you worked hard to earn it--they think you should share what you have---now I am not talking about donating to charity, tithing at your church, etc. I am talking about a government (and a growning number of citizens) that feels it is wrong to become wealthy. There are small business owners but they are not in a position to employ in large numbers. It is the wealthy people who build the businesses (and yes, in many cases they did it themselves) that hire people who buy houses,clothing, appliances, groceries, etc. I feel the same way about the income tax situation. Is it a fair system? Not really. Is it cumbersome and has too many loopholes? Yes on both accounts. Do we all take advantage of it? If we are being honest we all have to say yes. I would find it hard to believe there is someone who looks at line 19 on their tax form and the deduction it offers and says they will not take that deduction because it would give them a bigger tax break than Joe down the street. It is legitimate and they can get away with taking that deduction and that is all people care about.

There are other countries who believe the wealth should be shared--but even in Russia where everyone was supposed to be equal those in authority lived the good life while those "sharing" stood in line hours for a loaf of bread. And where is this great world power now? Sad to say, if we are not careful we will be right behind them.

Davids mom
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Trickle down/Mytimite

Take a look at the shrinking middle class. I respect your point of view, just don't agree with it. I'm one of those who owned a home for over 38 years - and sold it for way over what I paid for it. However, the inflation rate over those years really changes the profit margin and what one can do with the profit 38 years later. Retorts that look good on paper don't always relate to the real world. I'm sure that you help those who need your help. I'm sure you're a good person. Just because I'm a Democrat and have had a different perspective on life doesn't make me a 'bad' person. ( having purchased a home here in 2003, I would take a $200,000.00 loss today - but still have more house and comfort than in California. You see, it's all relative.

Living in California, I have seen too many people taking advantage of Uncle, while those who really needed help went wanting. I shudder when we drive down some of the rural roads in our country and see those who are reeking out a subsistence living - while others legally pay a 1% tax. True those living in substandard conditions don't pay taxes - but in the richest country in the world, is the way we're implementing this system working for everyone? Why aren't our elected leaders tackling these issues?

MYTMITE
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DM, at least those paying 1% are gainfully employed. What

bothers me more are those who do not work and yet get money back from Uncle Sam. Let's see now: How does 1% of a million dollars compare to 1% of nothing? Hmm, think I prefer the 1%. There are people who now get money from Income Tax who did not work or earn a salary, I still have not figured that one out, as Uncle Sam still gets his cut of my measly little amount I make at baby sitting!
I, too, owned a home and sold it for a profit and yes the new home I bought cost much more than what I had paid for the original so I know what you mean. This also applies to the business world.
If you have read my other recent post you will see that I, too, was a Democrat--now I vote for the individual. I have never said or thought that you were a bad person. I feel everyone has the right to their own thoughts and beliefs. I respect those rights and expect everyone to respect mine. I do often think you see things through a skewed prism but that is your right and your assumptions. Your statement of "Retorts that look good on paper don't always refer to the real world' applies across the board. I too hate to see people who are really in need, but what I hate the most is that there are so many who get benefits they do not deserve. I am sorry, but if you can afford Direct Tv, IPods, SmartPhones, salon nails, etc, you do not need financial help from Uncle Sam or anyone else--and I am talking about people I know personally who are receiving these benefits,i.e., food stamps, help with electric bill etc., not some imagined person out in the atmosphere. Sad to say many of those truly in need do not know how to play the system while others have made it their life's work. I believe anyone in dire need should be helped, but to get back on their feet, not to become a life choice.

Our income tax system needs revamping, our lobbyist laws need revamping (no freebies under any circumstances), our food stamp and other 'entitlement' programs need revamping, our immigration laws need to grow teeth, and I could go on and on. You ask "Why aren't our elected leaders tackling these issues". Well, very simple, most of these groups have clout--they can produce voters for the candidate that votes in their favor, and sad to say that too has become the American way.

Davids mom
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Mytimite
Quote:

Well, very simple, most of these groups have clout--they can produce voters for the candidate that votes in their favor, and sad to say that too has become the American way.

Our poor turn out on election day gives special interest groups the clout. We as individuals as well as groups have power.
The groups buy ads. The individuals, by voting, can trump the ads. Those in Fayettte County who got the records, looked to see who voted in every election, and then went door to door -on the whole did better than the 'good ole boys'. The glitzy ads have turned a lot of people off - regardless of ideology. Are you talking about the 'disabled' who collect checks legally ? from the government? I worked for years to revamp the welfare system, for I saw too many students - regardless of color - falling into a life of dependency. It's not easy to make meaningful change, and one is always fighting the ones who are benefitting from the status quo.

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DM, I thought I had made myself clear in the many posts where

I stated there are those who deserve help, who we should help. No, I was not talking about the 'disabled' who collect checks legally from the government. If someone is truly disable and cannot help themselves and has noone else to help them, then yes, they should be helped. When you worked for years to revamp the welfare system did you do it as a government employee, where you were able to make decisions or offer suggestions or are you talking about working as a 'civilian' trying to change the system? Did you mean they were falling into dependency because they were being given too much without expending the time and energy to earn it? If so, then we are on the same page. I consider myself up to date on what is going on around me but I guess I am still old fashioned enough to feel one should work for what they receive, not only for the good of their community and country but also for their own good. Nothing trumps the feeling that you are able to take care of yourself and stand on your own two feet, and too many people today are not getting this opportunity because they are in that continuous loop of Uncle taking care of them--and that spans all races, ethnicities, and gender. I must have fallen asleep when the law was passed that we no longer should strive to accomplish. Do we really have to wonder why we are falling behild other countries in all areas? There are still some students who do excel but they are really the exception and are held up as exceptions instead of them being part of the norm.

Davids mom
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Mytimite

We're on the same page. Represented professional organization as an advisor and consultant.
Worked with welfare recipients who were parents. Witnessed first hand abuse of system as well as incompetence of providers.

1963-1999

Davids mom
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Addend/ Mytimite
Quote:

Did you mean they were falling into dependency because they were being given too much without expending the time and energy to earn it?

No! This statement does not encompass many of the families I worked with. Overtime, Welfare to Work was implemented.
There are success stories because of meaningful change and ethical implementation. There is still abuse and resistance to changing the status quo. I agree, there are those who will benefit from help who have a solid work ethic.

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Davids mom - Shudder
Davids mom wrote:

I shudder when we drive down some of the rural roads in our country and see those who are reeking out a subsistence living - while others legally pay a 1% tax. True those living in substandard conditions don't pay taxes - but in the richest country in the world, is the way we're implementing this system working for everyone? Why aren't our elected leaders tackling these issues?

Gee, I shudder to think that there are those that talk about the poor and tax rates in the same sentence.

Davids mom wrote:

Why aren't our elected leaders tackling these issues?

Perhaps, there are enough elected and responsible leaders that see through that idea and know exactly what it leads to. Unfortunately, the president is not one of them.

BTW, I have a plan to save us tax payers $9 million a year....stop funding USADA.

PTC Observer
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Cyclist - Keep

shuddering, DM is not alone by a long shot. However, don't look at the man behind the curtain.......

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

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PTC Observer

Those whirling thingies make my eyes hurt.

Davids mom
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Cy/PTCO

In some religions, the congregants are instructed to be mindful of and assist the poor. As one studies world history, there is always a correlation between revolution and the 'poor' and neglected. Mormonism is known worldwide for it's missionary work for the 'poor'. Are you saying that our leaders should not discuss the poor as they also discuss taxes? As our middle class shrinks during this economic crisis - what 'class' is growing?

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DM - I didn't

realize I said all those things, in fact did I mention class? I must be getting old.....what's the subject again?

I think I said that there are many people that believe what you believe that government should take care of people.

If you haven't noticed....the country is broke. It doesn't matter why it's broke. Earth to DM there is no money, repeat there IS no money.

Yes, I agree the poor are in fact the cauldron of revolution. Our poor will have to suffer a lot more and there will have to be a lot more of them before there is a revolution by the poor in this country. I suppose they'll just have to give up their cable, second car, trips to play lotto, liquor, cigarettes and beer. Now we're talking real suffering. ;-)

Thanks be to God that our Founders saw fit to enshrine individual gun ownership in our Constitution, so we can protect ourselves from predators.

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Wow! Thanks for sharing. Cable, second car, etc., etc., - boy has your exposure been limited. I hope you are making an attempt at sarcasm . The poor is a class of citizens that is growing in our country. If you have been exposed to only those citizens who have abused our welfare system - well there are too many who really need a hand up. Mistakes were made after the depression of the 30's - but putting people back to work in order to improve the economy was not one of them. We have no money, we have too many citizens out of work. Is the answer shut everything down, put more out of work and let our country go to pot? Hmmmmmm. Interesting. Thank God for guns to use in the revolution ? The leader of Russia from years past (cold war) was right. We will destroy ourselves . You and that judge in Texas stand ready! I don't really think you don't care about the less fortunate - but I don't agree with your solution.

Davids mom
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Quote:

I think I said that there are many people that believe what you believe that government should take care of people.

Ahhhh come on. I didn't say that. Government is there to provide citizens with services they cannot provide individually for themselves . The Constitution. . .right?

Davids mom
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Cy-what idea?

Please clarify.

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DM

"The ordaining of laws in favor of one part of the nation, to the prejudice and oppression of another, is certainly the most erroneous and mistaken policy. An equal dispensation of protection, rights, privileges, and advantages, is what every part is entitled to, and ought to enjoy." --Benjamin Franklin, Emblematical Representations, 1774

and nothing more, DM

Davids mom
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PTCO

What are you referring to ' and nothing more'?

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DM - Nothing more

"....An equal dispensation of protection, rights, privileges, and advantages, is what every part is entitled to, and ought to enjoy."

This an nothing more....like say, redistribution of wealth.

DM, Mr. Franklin was talking about the proper role of government as they introduced the new nation to its Great Seal. http://greatseal.com/symbols/index.html

Naturally, it did not at that time in history include slaves, women and non-property owners. However, the idea lead to the great nation that we have today.

E PLURIBUS UNUM - Was is not exactly as interpreted today, but nonetheless correctly embodies the American ethos.

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Quote:

"The ordaining of laws in favor of one part of the nation, to the prejudice and oppression of another, is certainly the most erroneous and mistaken policy. An equal dispensation of protection, rights, privileges, and advantages, is what every part is entitled to, and ought to enjoy." --

A guiding principle during the Civil Rights movement. The problem came from those who didn't want the status quo disturbed.

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DM - You're

correct on this on both points.

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I seem to remember someone running for President

with Greek Columns as a backdrop..

Oh yeah.. that was Obama. Well he has certainly made us look like Greece.

btw-you should start adding some facts into your little missives it makes you look less a fool.

"All tax on an individual's income in Greece is progressive. As of 2012, a Greek individual is taxed at a rate of 18% - 45%.
Exemptions are granted to taxpayers with specific types of income.
In 2012 the standard rate of corporate tax in Greece is 20% for accounting periods ending after 31.7.2011. For Greek partnerships the tax rate is 25%."

Anyone making over 100,001 Euros is taxed at 45% and yet the Government is still broke....so.......

Davids mom
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You Guys?/Lindsey

Congress has the power and responsibility to act on behalf of the citizens of this country. It appears that they are acting on behalf of corporations and special interests. The polls are close for Romney and Obama - but the country is sick of this non-productive Congress! The world is wondering if the American people will use the vote to elect responsible legislators, or let special interest buy their vote through glitzy,negative ads - and causing too many to NOT VOTE!

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They're also sick, DM...

...of a non-productive president. Takes two to tango, so don't pin all the blame on Congress for not allowing the deficit to explode under the guidance of the 'Stimulator'. Maybe he should work harder on a budget rather than playing so much golf.

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POTUS & the deficit

Yeah, POTUS inherited a mess---but did you ever see a Fireman pour gas on a fire to put it out!

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AHG

Never saw a fireman try to successfully do anything without cooperation from all involved. Can't put out a fire, if you've got a group determined to hold back the water!!

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Holding back water

So tell me who was holding back the water from 2009-2011? Could a BUDGET be considered water? If yes, then look no further than the US Senate, controlled since this administration took office by the party of the administration. And it mattered not what the Senate Minority Leader said about one-term---he had and has no juice to control anything!

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AHG -LOL

Not surprised you didn't mention the Speaker of The House and that completely useless body on the other side of the aisle.
Have a nice day. Are you pleased with either side?

Jobs = Water!!

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Congress

No, not pleased with either House of Congress.

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Performance of Congress

No, not pleased, but the House DID pass a Budget; didn't make it thru the Senate. And the ENTIRE Senate voted NAY on the POTUS Budget proposal..and that doesn't happen too often.

Davids mom
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AHG

Since when does a Republican introduce the Presidents budget? Get your facts straight. This is disgusting and very immature. Leaders?

Quote:

"This is politics at its absolute worst: presenting something as the President's budget without the policy detail, without the explanation to the American people about what's in the President's budget," he said. "And as a result, he presents a very misleading version of what the President has asked us to do."
Mulvaney seemed to relish the idea of bringing up a proposal based on Obama's numbers, and openly wondered, tongue-in-cheek, why no Democrats sought to introduce it. He then criticized it by saying it does not foresee a balanced budget at any point in the future.
White House officials said Rep. Mick Mulvaney (R-S.C.), the sponsor of the alternative, was using Obama's top-line spending and revenue numbers as a budget proposal, without any specifics. On the House floor, Budget Committee Ranking Member Chris Van Hollen (D-Md.) agreed that Mulvaney's amendment was not, in fact, Obama's entire budget proposal.

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Budget Introduction &Voting

OK, so where was the Democratic leadership in this issue? Why didn't they introduce the President's budget in its entirety? Could it be that they didn't like it either?

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AtHomeGym and budget voting
Quote:

Could it be that they didn't like it either?

If K street does not like it, nobody is going to like it. The appropriate question that our Washington DC politicians should ask the people they represent is: "Was it good for you?".

Davids mom
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Rollingstone asks a great question

There are many sources that help to answer the question. This is from the Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/post/federal-budget-2013...

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Davids mom- with all due respect

and I do have a lot of respect for you, that was not a question that I was asking. K street's outsized influence is a major obstacle and draws its strength from the fact that we are a society that measures our level of satisfaction by what we do not have.

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Rolling?

"we are a society that measures our level of satisfaction by what we do not have."

Isn't this human nature? The concept of unfilled wants is the basis of most if not all economic theory. It is how we go about satisfying those wants that is the issue. The use of government force and "law" as a tool of theft, counter to the idea of individual freedom to act.

rolling stone
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PTC Observer -
Quote:

"we are a society that measures our level of satisfaction by what we do not have."
Isn't this human nature? The concept of unfilled wants is the basis of most if not all economic theory.

The desire to be fulfilled is our basic nature."Know thyself" is a theme often repeated.

Quote:

It is how we go about satisfying those wants that is the issue.

For moderation, "Treat others the way that you want to be treated" is a theme found in every culture.

The Italians have a saying: "It rains, the government steals".

“Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed”
Mahatma Ghandi

Davids mom
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Oops RS - Sorry
Quote:

politicians should ask the people they represent is: "Was it good for you?".

I misunderstood. But this site will lead to other sites where one can get a little deeper understanding on how the budget proposal MAY affect their lives/interests/goals.

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What does POTUS stand for?
AtHomeGym wrote:

Yeah, POTUS inherited a mess---but did you ever see a Fireman pour gas on a fire to put it out!

Keep seeing POTUS, but don't know what it means.

renault314
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RKS - POTUS

President of the United States. you may also see SCOTUS and FLOTUS from time to time, which are the Supreme Court and the First Lady. I believe they are secret service acronyms.

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Renault & POTUS

those acronyms have nothing to do with the Secret Svc--they have their own set of code names for certain govt officials and it changes randomly.

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KC - LOL

Your statement would be more credible if you said 'basketball'!! To call Obama non- productive is a stretch - to say that many are disappointed and disillusioned is much closer to the truth. But KC - the US isn't Disneyland - it is a realm of reality - where all dreams do not come true - unless there is an effort for ALL to become involved. The reality: No one (of the 'common people - citizens) knew the extent of the mess that we were in. We went from a budget with a surplus to an economic situation that we hadn't faced since the '30's. (And all it took was 8 years.)
We were at war - and we were told to spend, spend, spend to help the economy. There were no 'rations'; no 'victory gardens', very little except volunteerism to HELP with the war effort. Sorry, but it does' t take too much insight to realize that the policies of those eight years did not work. Then came Obama with HOPE AND CHANGE - and a public statement from Mitch McConnell that his purpose was to make sure that this president was a one-term president. (Not that we're going to work together to get the economy back on track or get jobs for our citizens, etc,, etc., etc.) IMO, there were Republicans who started a campaign that appealed to those citizens who were uncomfortable with a president who was not 'white' - to question his Americanism, etc. This seemed to be the Republican order of business for the first two years of Obama administration. (Birther, etc.) To the Republican Party's credit, there were Republicans who tried to distance themselves from this 'effort' - but Rove and friends took hold of the T Party movement - and used politics as usual to gain momentum in making sure that nothing this president attempted succeeded. (THEY FAILED) The Obamacare - (Obama cares) affordable health plan was passed - and it was based on the plan that was implemented under the leadership of Governor Romney. So here we are today - waiting for the outcome of the November election - to see what direction this country will take. The recovery is slow - and because we are a part of a world economy - there doesn't seem to be any 'easy fix'. Instead of relying on one person (the President of the United States) to work harder, maybe we should demand that the legislators that we elect to represent us work harder!!

I look forward to the debates! Obama vs. Romney and Biden vs. Ryan.

Just heard Romney say that the states will take RESPONSIBILITY for energy resources. Translation: States will pay for this!! ( Oops - your taxes instead of on the federal level will go up on the state level - if your state elects to participate in these state activities for improving ENERGY!! This is a fascinating time!!!

NOTE: I haven't mentioned the polls that shows that women, blacks, Hispanics and other minorities are supporting Obama. White men are supporting Romney. Some are accusing the Republicans of trying to suppress the vote. What is happening in this country? One broadcast stated the 0% blacks were supporting Romney. I know too many black Republicans who are supporting Romney to give that report any credibility. What role is the media TRYING TO PLAY. What happened to honest reporting? Do your own research - try to decipher the truth!!