Obama administration drove cutoff of non-union Delphi workers’ pensions

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Joe Kawfi
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Just what we have come to expect from a 'president" that refers to the private sector as "the enemy".
Obama only takes care of people that contribute to his re-election campaign. Obama hates America and all that it stands for.


Geithner, Treasury drove cutoff of non-union Delphi workers’ pensions

The internal government emails contradict sworn testimony, in federal court and before Congress, given by several Obama administration figures. They also indicate that the administration misled lawmakers and the courts about the sequence of events surrounding the termination of those non-union pensions, and that administration figures violated federal law.

Be sure to catch 2016 - the movie about Obama's dream to downsize America and turn us into a third world country where most citizens depend on government for a handout for daily life.

grizz
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The silence

The silence from the left on this issue is deafening.

Obama was directly responsible for terminating the pensions of 20,000 non-union employees.

Obama does not care about the average working class American.

Gort
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Do you think Delphi would

Do you think Delphi would have gotten a better deal with Bain Capital?

Bump

rolling stone
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Do you think Delphi would even be

in business if not for the efforts to keep GM going? As an antidote for grizz and joe for their short term memory loss may I suggest this link: Improve Your Brain Health

Gort
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All those non-union workers at Delphi

been freeloading off high union wages and benefits for years. With all the money they saved on union dues you would think they could have invested it in the stock market and all become millionaires. Now they know what happens to scabs.

PTC Observer
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Gort - non-union workers

lost their jobs because of the union, you see who has the jobs. I agree there are fewer union workers with the "new" GM, but that's the whole idea isn't it? Making sure a few get the money and the heck with everyone else. Good thing the union has a friend in high places.

Now where do you think they are making most of the batteries that go into new cars? I'll give you one guess.

Gort
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PTC_0, that's pretty

PTC_0, that's pretty funny.

Quote:

PTC_0 wrote:

Making sure a few get the money and the heck with everyone else.

Isn’t that Republican tax policy according to the Ryan plan? Did you know that Mitt Romney would pay less than 1% in federal taxes under that plan?

PTC Observer
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Gort - It is funny

That depending on your perspective who gets the money is what it is all about, the unions or the banksters. Either way the citizens and future generations are getting the bill.

Until we get the government out of being the "paymaster" all we will be fighting over is the small remaining flesh on the bones of the Republic. You had better wake up pal, it will be all over sooner than you expect. Is that funny?

Gort
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PTC_0, what exactly will be

PTC_0, what exactly will be over?

PTC Observer
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Gort - Well

Well Gort, our way of life. Our government and its corrupt politicians are taking our nation down a path of impoverishment. If the FED continues artificially inflates the money supply it will come back to haunt us all, in spades. There have been many examples throughout history where governments attempted to manipulate markets and failed. All at the expense of their citizens, the US Government will prove to be no different.

It will all be over unless the citizens of this country begin embracing a much, much smaller government that stays out of the way instead of micro-managing the economy.

Yes, yes, Gort I know in your opinion, that we simply can't function economically without the government, but you're wrong on this position. We can do just fine without it. In fact we can thrive without it.

S. Lindsey
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PTCO now you know ole gort

doesn't believe we even have a problem.. He thinks we can just keep spending and spending and spending and let our children pickup our slack.

Gort
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SLindsey, talk about big spenders,

did you ever see the voting record of Mitt Romney’s running mate? I forget his name but he has a haircut that makes him look like Eddie Munster or Lon Chaney as the Wolfman.

You know who I mean, don’t ya?

Gort
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PTC_0, I know the auto bailout made you unhappy

but I’m glad Delphi is still in business, still employ’s working people like me, and still produce products that contribute to our US economy.

As it says in the US Constitution, it,…” provides for the common good.”

PTC Observer
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Gort - Delphi

Is not in business any longer it too went bankrupt, I assume you know how bankruptcy works, Chapter 11? Anyway, on October 6, 2009: Delphi's core assets were purchased by a group of private investors to create a new Delphi Corporation. Gasp! Private Equity again!! Some of its operations were sold to General Motors Company, the successor to the bankrupt Motors Liquidation Company that used to be the old General Motors Corporation. The stock was cancelled. The old Delphi Corporation was renamed DPH Holdings Corporation. So Gort, Delphi is not in business as before, in fact Delphi during re-organization into a "new" Delphi the court sold off over 44 divisions globally. I happen to know just a little bit about these transactions personally. Most of these jobs "migrated" to China.

As far as working guys like you, I too hope that every American can find a job, private equity helps in many ways to save productive jobs by re-investing in American companies to make them better and more efficient and more profitable. When GM purchased Delphi pieces the taxpayers paid for yet another company. We will never see this money Gort, it is lost to union pension plans at both the "new" GM and the "new" Delphi.

It's all smoke and mirrors Gort and you are falling for it. We have been screwed by politicians paying off their contributors, unions. Enriching the few at the expense of the many.

Gort
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PTC_0, speaking of smoke and

PTC_0, speaking of smoke and mirrors, I had lunch at home today and Mitt Romney was on TV. He was writing on a white board, lying about how he was going to save Medicare.

He looked like a Amway soap salesman working a garden party at the Marriott! He choked about half way through and had to rub off a mistake he made on his whiteboard with his finger. He had a minor panic attack when he realized he got some ink on his finger! I couldn’t help but think, can this really be the money wizard of Bain Capital?

BTW, So you were personally involved with the Delphi bankruptcy transactions. I never realize you ran with such big shot’s. Gort is impressed with PTC_0.

PTC Observer
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Gort - Romney

Please don't put me in a position to try and defend Mr. Romney, I like millions of other Americans have simply been delivered a choice of two evils. One better than the other but nonetheless evil. The only question is what rhetoric do you like the best? It doesn't matter who is elected Gort, the outcome will be the same because the system itself has been so corrupted.

We the people cannot expect one man or one Congress to clean it up, we need to decide what kind of country we want. If we want the current form of government then we simply do nothing different and the country and our way of life will come to a very dramatic end. Socialist policies always lead to the same fate, read history.

Yes Gort I run with "big shots", my company lost money on the Delphi bankruptcy. You see Gort in the real world, someone keeps one of those limited number of union jobs at the expense of someone else. That's how it works in the real world, how does it work in your world Gort?

Gort
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PTC_0, Romney’s big donors,

PTC_0, Romney’s big donors, of pinstriped banksters, international gambling tycoons, and Texas oil boilers, don’t have any trouble defending him. The ultra conservatives stood by and watched Romney and his donors buy the Republican primary out from under them. To save face they grumble about, “…the lesser of two evils,” even though Romney represents everything they love to hate. It seems to me, the kind of government Romney’s donors want in the USA is more of a star-chamber then a democratic republic and Romney looks too willing to give it to them.

Anyway, that’s how the ‘real world’ looks to me.

Sorry you lost money on the Delphi deal. I own diversified mutual funds so I probably did too but I try not to whine about it in public. Us armchair capitalist have to be brave.

PTC Observer
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Gort - Mr. Romney

Is no different than Mr. Obama.

Gort
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PTC_0, I’m glad you feel that

PTC_0, I’m glad you feel that way, can he count on your vote?

8 - )

PTC Observer
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Gort - Who's

he? Are you for Romney? ;-)

Gort
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PTC_0, only if he lets me

PTC_0, only if he lets me ride on his ballet horse on the 4th of July!

8 - )

PTC Observer
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Gort - I

I am sure he would let you ride!

Got a couple $100,000?

Cyclist
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Transparency and the rule of law....

will be the touchstones of this presidency - President Obama.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgTydr4gAaI

My goodness, how things have changed since those days.

PTC Observer
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Rolliing Stone - GM Accounting 101

GM's bankruptcy marks one of the largest corporate Chapter 11 bankruptcies in U.S. history. The US citizens own 500 million shares of the new company that took over the GM brand. For the US Taxpayer to simply breakeven the shares would have to sell at around $53 per share. Any government attempt to sell these shares would depress the value of the stock. Therefore assuming a 30% premium is needed to net the $53 per share, the shares would need to be trading at or about $70 per share. The "new" GM stock closed at $20.48 per share today. The market cap for GM is $32 billion, less than the total loans. The stock is selling below its IPO price of $33 per share. The public loan to secure the 500 million shares was about $50 billion.

Now do you really believe that this money will ever be repaid? Do you believe that this business could survive in a free market? Does it matter to you? It should because you are paying for the cars you aren't driving, including that blockbuster Volt, it sold 7,000 units last year and most of them were recalled due to fire hazards. Oh yes, it took GM two decades to design the Volt. So much for Green policy brought to you by Government Motors.

I have always though of GM as a union benefit company that happens to make cars. Thank God the government bailed them out to enrich the few at the expense of the many.

rolling stone
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PTC Observer

The character Aslan said many times in the Chronicles of Narnia series, "No one is ever told what would have happened" however, considering what the loss of GM would have done to the national psyche let alone to the economy, yes I think it was worth it. Much more so than 50 days of war, for a comparison.

Now for a bit of background, back in the day my whole family would rather have pushed a Chevy than drive a Ford.

PTC Observer
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Rolling Stone

The fact is everyone believes that the government "saved" GM, quite the contrary, it saved union jobs, that's it. We will never be repaid by GM. The reason is obvious, they can't compete in the real world. Ultimately, they will lose in the marketplace. They are not competitive from so many standpoints, the only people that benefit in the short term are the union workers and the mediocre managers that run the "new" GM. Who loses? Well you do, I do, and all future generations will live a much poorer existence. All to save union jobs, a voting block and big contributor to "The Leader".

PTC Observer
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Rolling - Sorry I missed

that bit about Ford, they didn't take government money did they? I think I prefer Ford and own two of them both pretty new too. If they had taken money, I would be driving a foreign car.

rolling stone
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PTC Observer

Perhaps you could direct me to the source of your information regarding GM. Seems like I just read somewhere where they regained their number one standing in the world, helped considerably by sales in China. By the way, all of my engines say Honda.

PTC Observer
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GM - Rolling

#1 in China maybe, if you go to China you will see lots and lots of Buick vans circa 2000 design. No unions in China, everything is manufactured by GM for China in China, joint ownership "new" GM and the Chinese government. So, let's say for sake of argument that GM is number one because of units sold in China. In the end, who benefits? Stockholders? Well we're stockholders you and I. So, do you think we made a good investment? Plenty of Chinese jobs, good profit, great benefits that are exempt from the Affordable Healthcare Act, life is good if you happen to be one of those union workers.

Honda is a great car but until Ford prostitutes itself, makes a crap car or sells out completely to the union, I am sticking with Ford. I am a happy consumer with Ford.

MYTMITE
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ptc, I am a happy Honda owner. I have a friend who likes to

razz me because I drive a Honda (which is now 18 years old and I have never had to put a penny into it except for upkeep). Of course my current Honda and previous ones were made in Maryville, TN so they employed American workers and paid American wages. Her "American" made car has always had the parts made in other countries and put together here so it can be considered American made. Before I started buying Hondas my previous car had been a brand new Pontiac--within six weeks the rear end went out, the widows broke (would not roll up or down), plus many other problems and the service from the dealer was shoddy. The first Honda I got I drove for 15 years then my granddaughter inherited it to use for college. She drove it back and forth for four years and when she traded it in she got a fantastic price for it. The only Honda I have had for less than 15 years is one that Hurricane Andrew battered around a bit--it was only a year old and I hated the idea of getting a new car so badly that I drove it like that for some time before trading it in. Every time I go to get my new tags the gentleman at the tag agency reminds me to let him know when I get ready to sell it. All my friends kept telling me they wanted to buy it for their kids. Some of these kids have now gotten married and have families--and I am still driving the same car. So, for now I will stick with my Honda.

kcchiefandy
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So, Rolling Stone...

...you've said 'f**k the American worker'; I'm sending profits of my purchase to Japan! Oh, they employ lots of people here? Great, we're a labor pool for the Japanese! Guess I should fly JAL more than Delta...

rolling stone
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kcchiefandy, you make me appreciate

the decorum of PTC Observer.

Quote:

..you've said 'f**k the American worker'

.
I do not recall saying such things and I really do not appreciate being accused of talking like a Bain Capitalist.

kcchiefandy
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Oh, Rolling Stone...

...I was just prodding you; sorry for the terse verbiage. The Emperor of Japan appreciates your dedication. Only GM products in my driveway, up until my wife fell in love w/ a Hyundai...couldn't persuade her - I wanted the Chevy Cruze.

Up until this presidential race, did you really know Bain Capital even existed? Perhaps you have had more of an opportunity to study large financial corporations and their operations than I have...obviously there are more companies than just Bain who have done/are doing business as they have - can you tell us about some of them? I'd like to look into them.

S. Lindsey
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KC what's really funny is that...

... the *gasp* "Capital" Investment firm Chelsea Clinton or the "Capital" Investment firm John Kerry worked for are good "Capital" Investment firms.. They never outsourced or closed businesses.
I mean Chelsea just married a **gasp,gasp** an INVESTMENT banker...

" Avenue Capital, finished raising nearly $3 billion for a fund that will invest in the debt of troubled European companies."

"Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers,New Enterprise Associates, ... Later Stage, 2, $ 105,000,000, Provides outsourced data center services"

Ok never mind.... You know how Rollingstone hates those Capitalist Swine or maybe just Capitalism in general.

AtHomeGym
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SL & rollingstone

Or maybe they hate Capitalism and US Generals, not necessarily in that order! Cancel--now that I thinkabout it, I guess you mean the blogger, not the magazine! It's called "tad slow on Tuesday).

rolling stone
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AtHomeGym

I like the Generals that I have dealt with but the lower ranked officers, not so much. I like Capitalism, but Bain's version, again, not so much. The house that capitalism built, well, there are a lot of citizens who are on the outside looking in, and their ranks are growing.

S. Lindsey
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rolling stone exactly what is "Bains" version of Capitalism?

You mean helping the HUNDRED's of businesses that Bain put Capital into and saved literally thousands of jobs? You mean that version?

"Not only did Bain Capital save America, but no matter what turn Mitt Romney's political career takes, Bain Capital may stand as the best of Mr. Romney's lifetime contributions to the nation's economic well-being. If only he'd tell the story." WSJ

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405297020455590457716903299724224...

You see stone talking points from Media Matters no withstanding ALL investment capital firms ALL OF THEM act and do business the very same way.. Even the ones Democrats are employed by...

rolling stone
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S. Lindsey, Re: Bain Capital Saved America

That article belongs in The Onion. Watta hoot! Thank you.

S. Lindsey
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As of yet you have not given us a reason why you hate Bain

other then rhetoric. I am still waiting for specifics. You see stone I deal in facts, logical arguments and open discussions. If you can't do that I understand, but if you make a blanket statement and then cannot give specifics or an argument stating clearly and logically your position then you cannot be taken seriously.

1. What is "Bain's" version of Capitalism and how does it differ from any other Investment Company?

2. Please explain specifically what do you understand a Investment Capital Firm does and what specifically in their business model you disagree with.

Larry Sussberg
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Bain Capital

Totally agree that our government has gotten too big and there needs to be a reduction of debt very quickly but running the government and running an investmant bank are 2 separate issues. Bain's focus was strictly on it's shareholders and their return on investment. Here is one example where what's was good for the community was not good for Bain.

http://www.bradenton.com/2012/08/13/4156765/steel-mill-polluted-town-as-...

There are other examples across the U.S. where Bain purchased and closed companies that were worth more dead than alive. There are 100s of companies they closed, but they were unprofitable and needed to close. That is capitalism and I surely believe in capitalism but are we sure the federal government can and should be run purely on a capitalistic business model? We know that change is needed and we can not continue what we are doing.

So, hopefully we will have a fiscal conservative in the White House BUT
do we really know what he stands for anymore? What will the Republican platform look like and will he follow it as the leader of the party?

Also, let's not be blinded to the fact that Governor Romney is a Rockefeller Republican (a liberal). You can not run the State of Massachuetts and not be a liberal. Unfortunately he has sold his soul in an attempt to appease everyone and consolidate the party.

Does either party, Democrat or Republican offer us any real solutions or are they gridlocked in a 2 party system under the principle of do nothing so the winner can take all?

Who ever is elected, will the government address the major issues or pander to special interests including one I am a member of which is AARP who is fighting medicare and social security reforms?

The answer may not be either...for long term solutions.

S. Lindsey
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Mr. Sussberg

Exactly what was Bain's responsibility to the community except to make money for their shareholders and keep businesses operational.. which btw is in and of itself a "benefit" to that community.

rolling stone
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S. Lindsey

I do not hate Bain Captital and never said that I did.

Quote:

You see stone I deal in facts, logical arguments and open discussions.

If that is the case then why do you reference a fact-free article?

S. Lindsey
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Have you offered an argument yet?

Just wondering because I haven't seen one yet. Noticed you still have failed to answer even one question. Argue that I am wrong, argue that the article is wrong, argue your point of view, but by just disagreeing doesn't make you right it just makes you disagreeable.

rolling stone
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No argument from me
Quote:

by just disagreeing doesn't make you right it just makes you disagreeable

I just offered my opinion and whether you agree with it or not does not commit me to an argument. Take a look S. Lindsey, the disagreement is all yours. I borrowed nothing from you so I owe you nothing.

Davids mom
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Venture capitalism/Captalism

venture capital
n.
Money made available for investment in innovative enterprises or research, especially in high technology, in which both the risk of loss and the potential for profit may be considerable. Also called risk capital.
venture capitalism n.
venture capitalist n.

Capitalism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism

Bain is a venture capitalist company maybe?

S. Lindsey
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Sorry lost that last month back to Toyota

Even though they had a Tsunami, Nuclear Melt downs and a total economic collapse GM reign in their absence has ended.

AtHomeGym
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SL & GM

Not only that, but GM stock (held mostly by we taxpayers)has dropped significantly, making it likely that we will never see a repayment close to the bail-out.

S. Lindsey
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AHG correct and not surprised

Our Investor in Chief's record of using our money for his investments would have gotten him fired at any other job.

G35 Dude
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Rolling Stone- Come out of the stone age
Quote:

Now for a bit of background, back in the day my whole family would rather have pushed a Chevy than drive a Ford.

35 - 40 years ago I would have agreed with you. But times do change. In my opinion if you want to drive an American car Ford is your only real choice. And yes as you can see by by handle I drive an Infinity. But I also have a Ford that I've had for about 12 years. Very few problems. It has been a great car. I have owned GM's and Dodges without anywhere near the success that I've had with this Ford. In fact I'll never own another Dodge not because of the problems I had but because of the way Dodge handled them.

AtHomeGym
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G35 & Vehicles

Until March,I only had owned GM vehicles. In March, bye-bye to the 1999 Bonneville and hello Subaru Outback (assembled in Indiana). Still have 98 GMC which is in great shape. Subaru very comfortable and delivering 27-28 MPG around town. But I agree that Ford would be my US purchase if any--they did management right--GM failed. Chrysler has never done well. Son just bought a new Dodge Durango and he's very pleased.

kcchiefandy
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My trouble with Ford...

...is likened to a spurned lover; I had an Escort & a Taurus - back in '84ish & '93ish - and they were horrible, horrible cars. I swore I would never own one again. I do appreicate their resurgence and staying off the gov't dole, though, and their cars do seem to be made much better. Always had good luck w/ GM vehicles, though; still driving my love - 2001 Silverado - 205,000 and only replaced a thermostat & water pump!

AtHomeGym
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KCCA & Trucks

My '98 GMC (5.7L, 106,000 miles) has only had replaces starter (warranty) and 1 manifold gasket. Runs,sounds (Dual Flowmaster muffler system) great. Seeing as I no longer drive, it doesn't get much milage anymore,whereas I used to drive it to NC (visit Mom) & Jacksonville, FL (fishing) quite often.

rolling stone
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Really liked them Chevy pick up trucks

I had to part ways with trucks though because every time I sat in one I turned into the human equivalent of a for rent mule.

kcchiefandy
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Like they say, RS, 'If you want a friend...

...buy a truck!' NEVER have truer words been spoken - but dang, I don't know what I'd do w/o my baby...oh, and my wife, too (in case she sees this)!

Cyclist
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In the spirit of this thread's debate...

A Ford is a far superior piece of equipment than those other inferior types. :-)

G35 Dude
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My Dodge experience
Quote:

Chrysler has never done well. Son just bought a new Dodge Durango and he's very pleased.

About 15 years ago I bought a Dodge Caravan. At first I loved it. A friend of mine told me to report back to him when I hit 60k miles. Well at about 62k the engine slung a rod. Bob Maddox Dodge accused me of not changing the oil which wasn't true. I had purchased the extended warranty so I was to get a rental car. I got one for a week while they took a month to replace the engine. The more I complained the slower they seemed to move. I called the Dodge hotline and after days finally got through. They were of no assistance. Just told me that Bob Maddox was waiting for the engine and that a week was all the warranty covered for a rental replacement. Around 65k miles the transmission went. I asked for a rental car was told I had to wait until they could investigate the problem to make sure that it was covered under warranty. By the time they decided that it was in fact covered the car was fixed. Right before the warranty ran out (70k) the air conditioner compressor went out. Again no rental car. The attitude there each time I went was like oh great you again? I called the Dodge hotline again to complain. It took almost a week to get through. And was then told that if I had rented a car on my own I would have been reimbursed but since I didn't there was nothing Dodge could/would do for me.

I sincerely hope that your son has a better experience than I did.

AtHomeGym
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G35 & Dodge Experience

Now that's an ugly story! Yeah, I hope my Son's experience is better too--but since he's 40, I don't have much influence on his decisions about wht's best for his family! He's very particular about routine maintenance too and can do a lot himself. He got rid of a Ford van and a Ford pickup, keeping a Ford Escort, when he got the Dodge. But he was NOT impressed with the Dealer in Billings, MT and drove all the way back to Bozeman to make the deal.

Davids mom
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Brain?

To improve something, it has to exist! LOL

RKS
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Joe Kawfi Rush Limbaugh

Joe, you gotta turn off Rush and start thinkin' for yourself. All your conspiracies are taking over your life, you doofus.

Joe Kawfi
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RKS

Hey Jaggoff, I don't listen to Rush. I work for a living and don't have time to listen to talk radio. (Unlike most of Obama's base who are just waiting for their next handout from the producers and a block of dat gubberment cheese.)

Gort
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Hey Joe, Government cheese!

Hey Joe, Government cheese! I remember that,… good program. Saved a lot of farm families from going under and fed a lot of hungry people.

Larry Sussberg
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Mr. Lindsey

That is exactly my point.
Running a Venture Capital Company and running the Federal Government are very different.
Georgetown SC is the oldest settlement in that state and one of the earliest settlements in the U.S. Travel there and see what a total mess the city is.
The company under Bain went backrupt and Bain sold it to Mitel Steel which is an Indian company. It just recently re-opened about 6 months ago with environmental approval from the state using new technology to eliminate the pollution.

Running a venture capital firm such as Bain is not like running the Federal Government. Bain did what was best for them and their shareholders, which is fine, but being the President of Bain does not necessarily qualify you to be the President of the United States since you have a larger base of stakeholders (not shareholders) to consider.

Appreciate the conversation,thank you! I just hope that the right person has been chosen to change our course

Thanks