Romney imploding

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JeffC
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The Obama campaign is going to seriously escalate the "when did Mitt leave Bain" question. There is no down side for the Obama people. Mitt signed SEC documents saying he was president and CEO until 2002, not 1999; the difference being Bain's outsourcing of job and lading companies with debt then bankrupting them for profit while Mitt was directing the company after he supposedly left in 1999 as he claims.

This is going to destroy Romney. Obama is going to win because of this.

Joe Kawfi
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Jeff

The Obama campaign should run with that. They certainly can't run on Obama's pathetic record of record spending and loss of jobs.

Obama is going to lose in November, plain and simple. America has had enough of this lying, inept, corrupt "president" and his minions. You and the rest of the libs just can't handle it and will chase anything at this point. It just goes to show how desperate and pathetic the Obama campaign has become.
Obama is such a small little man. He can't even admit that he was wrong.

JeffC
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Exactly Joe

You are exactly right. Obama cannot possibly run on his deficit and jobs programs. So he's changing the subject to Romney. Mitt will have lost a month to this controversy and the Obama people are going to run a series of first person ads with destitute people and their families telling how Mitt Romney under Bain Capital destroyed their lives and families.

It's powerful stuff. You give me Ohio and Pennsylvania and you can't win. You give me either Ohio or Pennsylvania and Indiana and you can't win. You give me Ohio or Pennsylvania and Florida and you have to win every other contested state.

Obama is looking like a winner to me right now and I've been seriously concerned. His chances are looking better and better. Granted it's because Mitt is looking weaker and weaker, but still, I'm just saying... don't take it for granted that he is going to lose.

It seems to me that the Mitt people need to wake up.

You seem far more certain than I am.

And if I may say about your "you libs" comment, I personally find Romney a most acceptable and qualified opponent. I believe he is an honest and honorable person.

The Republic will survive if he wins.

S. Lindsey
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Jeff didn't know you did animal impressions...

Granted the parrot most people believe is hard to do but progressives have that certain skill required to get it done just right...

You might remember this conversation with DM. Factcheck, ABCNews and OMG The Washington Post all said the claim was bunk, but yet another parrot sings...

S. Lindsey wrote:

Here is the heart of your comment referencing Romney and Outsourcing...

Obama Campaign: Romney A Liar, Potential Criminal

"Obama deputy campaign manager Stephanie Cutter suggested that Mitt Romney may be a criminal on a conference call with reporters this morning about a Boston Globe report that shows that Romney stayed at Bain Capital three years past when he said he'd left.
Cutter said that there were two ways to interpret the story. The first: Mitt Romney was "misrepresenting his position" at Bain to the Securities and Exchange Commission, "which is a felony.""

Ok now that would mean Romney would be responsible for outsourcing like KB Toys and others if he left in 2002 right? That is the very heart of your argument..

Now here is the real story..

Mitt Romney and his departure from Bain

(note the Washington Post NOT a Conservative think tank like Redstate or Townhall DM)

"To accept some of the claims, one would have to believe that Romney, with the advice of his lawyers, lied on government documents and committed a criminal offense. Moreover, you would have to assume he willingly gave up his share to a few years of retirement earnings — potentially worth millions of dollars — so he could say his retirement started in 1999.
UPDATE: Fortune obtained the offering documents for a Bain Capital Fund circulating in June 2000, as well as a fund in 2001. None of the documents show that Romney was listed as being among the “key investment professionals.” As Fortune put it, “the contemporaneous Bain documents show that Romney was indeed telling the truth about no longer having operational input at Bain -- which, one should note, is different from no longer having legal or financial ties to the firm.”

Now DM here is where that "Fair" mind would come in.. You would see although may not admit openly that the Obama campaign has LIED about the issue and continues even today to do so.

This is down and dirty SMEAR tactics that do seem to work for the lowest common denominator among us.

DM you can argue that "they" are wrong... you can argue that my "interpretation" is wrong... you can even argue that you just don't believe the Wapo BUT you can not argue that I have not provided "sources" DM like you claim I never do.

Now Jeff if you wish to talk about REAL outsourcing...

Let's turn to the hard Right source of the Huffington Post...

S. Lindsey wrote:

Outsourcing is being financed by Government DM.. Just look to GM, Tesla, Fiska and others. Millions of dollars and thousands of Jobs went to Finland, Denmark and China to build jobs there thanks to Obama's green initiative.

Now that's a fact DM care to argue that one?

Here DM I will give you one from one of your own sources...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/21/obama-picks-jeffrey-immel-ge-jo...

Obama Picks Jeffrey Immelt, GE CEO, To Run New Jobs-Focused Panel As GE Sends Jobs Overseas, Pays Little In Taxes

Even the Huffington Post knows who is really shipping out jobs...

So someone is telling a Lie... Who is it? Well the preponderance of the evidence suggest it is the Obama Campaign Jeff.

Davids mom
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Lindsey - stay current

Signatures and lack of transparency regarding taxes have topped the news. Using your interpretation of old news doesn't change reality . There are many questions unanswered regarding
Mitt Romney's ethics. He is a successful business man and family man. Obama is seen by many as a successful family man and a survivor of a relentless denigrating campaign. Romney's father achieved the American Dream. . as has Obama. Romney has lived it. I'm sure more implosions will occur before November for both candidates.

S. Lindsey
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Dm bring proof

I hear rhetoric and media matters talking points yet you still have not made an argument based in any facts just innuendo and conjecture.

Show me the investigative report that has discovered the documents that definitively proves Romney outsourced jobs. Oh there's not any is there?

But yet Obama himself pushes the same unsubstantiated smears.

"UPDATE: Fortune obtained the offering documents for a Bain Capital Fund circulating in June 2000, as well as a fund in 2001. None of the documents show that Romney was listed as being among the “key investment professionals.” As Fortune put it, “the contemporaneous Bain documents show that Romney was indeed telling the truth about no longer having operational input at Bain -- which, one should note, is different from no longer having legal or financial ties to the firm.”"

This is the heart yet again of the smears and yours and Jeff's argument... IT DOESN'T HOLD WATER Dm.

See DM I don't "interpret" someones else story I actually provide fact based arguments. Now Dm if you have something other then talking points I would be glad to hear them.

So the question to you is this.

Is Factcheck.org wrong?

Is ABCNews Wrong?

Is the Washington Post wrong?

Is Fortune Magazine wrong?

You see DM they agree that the smear ad and the story put out by the Obama campaign and Obama himself is not factual...NOT EVEN A LITTLE BIT.

You see Dm the American People are not as stupid as you and the Progressives like to believe they are. One thing that they collectively hate are the lies that politicians tell... What do you think happened in 2010? After all the "Party of NO" rhetoric how was it possible the Democrats to the worst beating ever in over 60 years?
It was because the the average American knows politics is a dirty business, but cheats and liars are not what they want.

So Dm thank you for your opinion.

Davids mom
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SL

Calling those that you don't agree with stupid is showing your own insecurity. I don't have to prove anything. It's up to Romney to prove the campaign 'lies'. (Just as it was up to Obama to disprove the 'birthers') There are many in this country - including Republicans who feel this Bain thing and nontransparency of taxrs does hold water. Words that the reading electorate can comprehend SL. None of the documents show that Romney was listed as being among the “key investment professionals. Words that the reading electorate can comprehend. Romeny signed as CEO of Bain in 2001

SIGNING AS CEO MEANS YOU TAKE THE RESPONSIBILITY - THE BUCK STOPS WITH YOU!

Quote:

but cheats and liars are not what they want.

So true! and Romney senior was well aware of this. The proof is up to Mitt Romney. One does not have to be a cheat and a liar to follow the law in the US . . .but many Americans are looking at the tax code and wondering who has taken advantage of it to the demise of the middle class. There are many questions of intent. (Read Vanity Fair and other current articles since this mess hit the airways) It's politics at it's worse (just a little worse than calling Obama an 'inarticulate dummy'. No one has put out unbiased 'facts' since this president was elected (smears has been the name of the game) - politics being played as usual. My opinion on this one doesn't mean a hill of beans - my vote does. And the vote of those who relate a little more to Obama's working class beginnings than to Romneys elevators for his cars and his wifes two cadillacs. Again, according to economistS, our economy may take another negative hit in 2013 - no matter who is in the White House. And the T Party is afraid that Romney will not follow their austerity plan that has had a negative affect on the European economy. You know, I believe that ethical leaders of both parties could work this thing out - if politics and financial 'power' got out of the way!

JeffC
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Your info is out of date SL

SEC documents have surfaced listing Mitt as CEO, president and managing director of Bain well into 2002. He earned at least $100,000 as income from his executive position at Bain in the 2001-2002 period, not dividends and interest from his stock.

Bain Capital Investors LLC list Romney as one of its two managing members in its 2002 SEC filings. He also attended board meetings.

These attacks are working very well for Obama as shown by Mitt’s five TV interviews over the weekend when he usually does none. Ed Gillespie didn’t help either when he declared that Romney had retired retroactively to February 1999. Retired retroactively?

Mitt could clear all of this up by releasing his tax returns. There must be some terrible stuff in there for Mitt to have decided that the attacks on Bain are the lesser evil for him. He will not be able to stand against the barrage of press now building. He may as well release his returns now and get it over with. Waiting and stonewalling only makes it seem that he has something big to hide.

S. Lindsey
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No Jeff it's not..

Just like the "update" from Fortune said there is a big difference in earning dividends and options and making decisions.

Your argument is flawed at best illogical at worst and downright deceptive lacking in any factual basis.

"As Fortune put it, “the contemporaneous Bain documents show that Romney was indeed telling the truth about no longer having operational input at Bain -- which, one should note, is different from no longer having legal or financial ties to the firm.”

Cherry picking info Jeff to suit your ideological beliefs is still lying no matter how it's said.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxZpkzHJlNk

He was obligated BY LAW Jeff to make those filings... Come on Jeff you are better then this.. Show me the facts Jeff... Show me your sources.

I have given both you and Dm 4 count'em Jeff FOUR separate independent sources THREE of which are considered to be highly LIBERAL for Gods sake and yet neither of you have given NOT ONE source for you continued attacks.

Definition of HYPERBOLE

: extravagant exaggeration

This is all that you have got.

rolling stone
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Some say HYPERBOLE , some say spinning out of control

S. Lindsey, it just ain't looking good for ol' Mitt. Remember, it was Newt who drew first blood on the Bain issue, and he did a good job too.

Davids mom
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NEWT AND OTHERS

Did a very good job! I'm sure the Rove crowd is working hard to counteract this one! In the meantime, the recovery is slow - but it is a recovery. Many, regardless of ideology, are wondering what will going back to Republican rule bring? What is their plan? They seem divided at this point. What will the convention bring? Who will the Republicans represent? Interesting year.

JeffC
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Conventions DM

The Republican convention is going to be interesting. Already they have decided not to invite Palin to speak. Even if the TEAs squawk, she won't be making any prime time speech. Neither will Ron Paul.

Also, Marco Rubio isn't going to be the Veep choice and neither is Jindal. I'm pulling for Condoleezza but expecting an old white guy. Maybe a poor old white guy to demonstrate the diversity in the Party.

Davids mom
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Diversity

That would do it!!! LOL!

Condoleeza would bring experience and dignity to the post - but I don't think she wants to be associated with the Romney crowd and their manipulators. She had enough of the Cheney actions.

JeffC
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Condoleeza

It is virtually impossible to turn down a Presidential candidate telling you that the country needs you to be the Vice President.

Davids mom
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Condoleeza

Very true. But it would be seen as an obvious hope for the women and minority vote. There are many ethical and politically astute women in the Republican Party. We wonder why they are being ignored.

JeffC
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Condoleeza redux DM

You are absolutely right and frankly that is the reason that I'm pulling for Condoleeza. If she can make the crazy people running the Republican Party now that they need to wake up and consider changing their message so that they don't automatically alienate women and minorities, well then go for it even if it makes the politics more competitive. If they win, I'd sure like to have somebody like her connected to the real world in there.

It's going to be Pawlenty. Boring. Not only boring but a display of weakness. He has to pick Pawlenty to assuage the Republican base instead of using the Vice Presidency to appeal to factions outside of the extremist who hijacked the Party.

Davids mom
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Jeff

I would be surprised - but not disappointed if Condoleeza accepted - if offered the position. But I think you're right. Pawlenty is listed among the 'possibles'. Gosh, this campaign has gotten dirty. What more is going to be revealed about the US involvement with the drug cartel? Maybe now since Chase has been outed - more Fast and Furious documents can be released - and Romney's taxes. There are few 'angels' in politics. Four more months to go!

G35 Dude
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Jeff, DM- No Condi as VP

Ms Rice will not be offered the VP position. In spite of the fact that she would bring a lot to the party with her experience, her views on abortion go against the grain of the Republican party. Also the main purpose of a running mate is to garner support from an area where the presidential candidate is weak without overshadowing the main candidate. She does not do that either. Obama has the black vote and I don't think Ms Rice would attract enough women to really matter. Romney needs a conservative as many see him as a RINO. (Republican in name only) Pawlenty is probably the leading candidate but if he (Romney) wants to make a splash and really attract the conservative vote he could look at someone like Mike Huckabee. The fear is that Huckabee could overshadow him. I don't expect Romeny's announcement to shock anybody. After the Sara Palin ordeal I think he'll play it safe.

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G35 & VP

Huckabee will never happen--if you read his book, you know that he and Romney did not get along on the campaign trail prior to the 2008 election.

G35 Dude
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AHG -Huck
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Huckabee will never happen--if you read his book, you know that he and Romney did not get along on the campaign trail prior to the 2008 election.

I understand that Huckabee would be a long long shot. I used him mostly to make my point. But then again JFK and LBJ couldn't stand each other either.

Davids mom
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G35 Dude

Point well taken!

meanoldconservatives
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Wait a second.....

You don't think Condoleeza wants to be associated with "the Romney crowd and their manipulators"???? What does that say about your candidate when the very poll you linked clearly stated that the majority of people they polled think Romney is more ethical than Barry Obama.

What was your favorite saying again? Oh yeah, LOL!!!!

Davids mom
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Poll MOC

You know these polls are not 'fair and balanced' - and can be spun anyway the poll taker desires (The reason for the usual difference between the Rasmussen Poll and so many others.) I used Rasmussen - because they usually poll conservatives.

meanoldconservatives
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Poll DM

So the portion of the poll that illustrates a dead tie for whether Romney's business record is a positive is useful and dependable for your purposes, but the portion comparing their ethics perception is not fair, possibly spin, and conservative respondents only? Questions from the same sampling...

By the way, here was the exact wording of the ethics questions:

3* Is Mitt Romney more ethical, less ethical, or about as ethical as most politicians?

4* Is Barack Obama more ethical, less ethical, or about as ethical as most politicians?

Where might the spin be in those questions?

Davids mom
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Come on MOC

How many Democrats/Liberals were asked that question? Who does Rasmussen 'poll'? Rasmussen had McCain winning I bet.

I was wrong: . .but still feel a poll with more 'liberals/Democrats' would be different.

Quote:

2008
According to Politico, "Rasmussen’s final poll of the 2008 general election — showing Obama defeating Arizona Sen. John McCain 52 percent to 46 percent — closely mirrored the election’s outcome."[39] In reference to the 2008 presidential election, a Talking Points Memo article said, "Rasmussen's final polls had Obama ahead 52%-46%, which was nearly identical to Obama's final margin of 53%-46%, and made him one of the most accurate pollsters out there.

Quote:

but the portion comparing their ethics perception is not fair, possibly spin, and conservative respondents only?

I didn't say that - but your interpretation is not far off.
Not really interested. The next four months will culminate in an election - and the US will survive.

meanoldconservatives
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DM

Polls are like beauty, they are in the eye of the beholder. But, you can't accept one question and then discount others from the same sampling. It is or it ain't.

Davids mom
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MOC

The voters who feel that Romney has better ethics are the same voters who are split/tied if his business experience is a plus for the office of president when compared with Obama.. (From my point of view - using the same info.)

Davids mom
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From Rasmussen Poll
S. Lindsey
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...and this is why it's important to Obama
JeffC
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Not so SL

Your position that an individual can simultaneously be the CEO, president, managing director of a company, and its sole stockholder and somehow be disassociated from the company or accurately classified as someone not having any formal involvement with a company is an extremely hard argument to make. The Romney people are finding that out too.

Yes, he was obligated by law to make those SEC filings. Are you implying that because the SEC requires documents to be files that Mitt was under no obligation to be truthful in them? My contention is that Romney was telling the truth in his SEC documents and he was indeed CEO and president of Bain until 2002, just like he said.

This issue is not going away. It's a huge gift to the Obama campaign. It attacks the core of Mitt's claim to business acumen allowing the Obama campaign to say that he got rich by throwing people out of work and by outsourcing jobs during the 1999 to 2002 period when Bain was at its most egregious; no matter how much the Romney people complain, the Obama people have SEC filings signed by Romney proclaiming himself the sole owner, president, CEO and managing director of Bain during those years for which he got paid $100K in salary; the WSJ and ABC polls show the attack is working; most importantly, Mitt is totally off message and on the defensive answering about Bain instead of keeping with the jobs, jobs, jobs mantra that Obama can't effectively answer.

What's not to like?

Before the election is over, the Obama campaign is going to have interviewed every person who lost a job because of Bain's vulture capitalism. Hey, capitalism is capitalism but politics is politics.

Welcome to the swift boat.

Robert W. Morgan
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Back at ya, Jeffe

This quote stuck out for me ---
"----can simultaneously be the CEO, president, managing director of a company, and its sole stockholder and somehow be disassociated from the company or accurately classified as someone not having any formal involvement with a company is an extremely hard argument to make"

You may be right. Now, how about Presbo being the person that "can simultaneously be the CEO, president, managing director of a company, and its sole stockholder and somehow be disassociated from the company or accurately classified as someone not having any formal involvement with a company is an extremely hard argument to make" in the context of Fast and Furious. How about that Jeff?

Davids mom
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Oops

,

Robert W. Morgan
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Oops indeed Mom. Comedy Channel may not be the best choice

for you to get the daily news. Admitting it is a huge oops.

If you and others think that Wide Receiver (where ATF actually tagged and tracked specific guns through their journey) and Fast and Furious (where they did not) are the same thing, more research is needed. You need to compare the number of guns used in each program, the tracking techniques and how quickly Wide Receiver was shut down. Might be good to see how far up the food chain there was knowledge of these wacky programs. Holder backed off his charges that Bush's AG knew about Wide Receiver, although he's withholding documents that clearly show that Valerie Jarrett was in on Fast and Furious from the getgo. (just kidding about Valerie, I know you like her).

The real sad thing in all this is that the same people who probably should have been fired for their participation in Wide Receiver, were still around after Obama's election and they trotted out Fast and Furious which was far worse. In other words instead of learning from our mistakes, they repeat, escalate and get somebody killed.

Davids mom
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RWM

I know you're tired of hearing this, but Fast and Furious started under the Bush Administration. Sometimes our comedians clarify better than some journalists.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/06/the-real-scandal-of-...

Poor decision making by two administrations - but the buck stops with Bush and Obama. By the way - no matter what 'poll' - it is still pretty close. A lot depends on those independents - and the Republicans uniting behind Romney. . .to make it close in November. There is always the October surprise.

S. Lindsey
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Jeff all I am asking you for is one shred of evidence

Not rhetoric, not party lines or talking points that the Obama commercials were right. Remember that Steel Mill GST that Romney according to Obama campaign ads said he was responsible for closing..?

As it turned out that decision was made under Jonathon Lavine who joined Bain in 1993. He is currently Managing Director and Chief Investment Officer. He is also a major bundler for Barack Obama, raising between $100-200k for the his reelection.

DOH.....

Oh yeah Jeff this too will be heard over and over...

You know Jeff I could care less what Romney did with HIS money.. I do care what Obama is doing with MY money.

Just like in 2010 Jeff you underestimate the American People. They can smell BS better then you think and it's not even October yet.

btw- how more more Billions is Obama going to give other Countries to bring jobs to... well their own Country?

Oh btw-on the Swift boating... Can't wait to fire up Fast and Furious.. Let's see which issue do the American People think is more important just another campaign ad or a dead Agent.

After Obama's speech on how Government created all the Jobs and not businesses I don't think the American People will be so hard to fool in November..

"President Obama said in a speech at the weekend that governments and not individuals create jobs, telling entrepreneurs: 'If you've got a business - you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2174160/Obama-says-wealthy-ARENT...

Davids mom
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SL - YOU'VE GOT TO STAY CURRENT

Huffinton Post shared this 6 hours ago:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/16/mitt-romney-bain_n_1677259.html

The 'evidence' just keeps popping up! The truth is somewhere in the rhetoric. The politicians are busy with the 'spin'. I'm just amazed it took you so long to come up with your 'talking points' . Sununu shared them with America this morning at 7:00 a.m. Most loyal Romney supporters are keeping quiet now - until the next implosion. I'm sure they're hoping it will be Obama's.

S. Lindsey
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What is the evidence DM-Grasping at straws

The Commercial and your own argument was that Romney was the pioneer of outsourcing and he was directly involved in the day to day decisions for it.

Now that was the Commercial's intent and the very heart of your argument..

Now show where in any thing you gave me that says that Romney was involved in the day to day decisions?

He owned the Company DM he maintained stock and investments in his own company are you saying that someone who built, managed and poured every waking moment into should just drop everything and walk away.. can't happen the regulations forbid it.

Again I will leave you with this...
" Fortune obtained the offering documents for a Bain Capital Fund circulating in June 2000, as well as a fund in 2001. None of the documents show that Romney was listed as being among the “key investment professionals.” As Fortune put it, “the contemporaneous Bain documents show that Romney was indeed telling the truth about no longer having operational input at Bain -- which, one should note, is different from no longer having legal or financial ties to the firm.”

They have produced the documents to verify their claim where is yours?

THe key word is "operational". That means to make the decisions. The very claim you and the Obama Campaign have been trying to make..

I know you are trying to spin it as "old news" "new info found" and all that.. Same documents DM just a different story.

Veritas
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SL ... It is out of ignorance

The reason the Obama camp keeps repeating the Bain outsourcing lie is purely out of ignorance of business operation, documentation and finance. As Obama (none) and most of his advisors have little or no experience in such matters.

S. Lindsey
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I know Veritas...I know

the sad part is they are simply playing to the lowest common denominator and it works and sycophants simply parrot what they hear.

No matter how much proof, evidence and explanation one gives they have a story to tell and to heck with the truth.

rolling stone
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Ignorance as a quality of life issue

Staying ignorant of the thought processes that are being displayed regarding Romney's involvement or non-involvement or retroactive retirement is the choice I am making. How sweet it is.

Davids mom
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SL
Quote:

He owned the Company DM he maintained stock and investments in his own company are you saying that someone who built, managed and poured every waking moment into should just drop everything and walk away.. can't happen the regulations forbid it.

Romney claims he left the company in 1999. The SEC has documents that show that he signed as CEO of the company up to 2002. or 3 They have records that show he attended board meetings. He accepted a $100,000.00 FEE for services. Pitance to him - but still on record. I agree with your quote - and so does most of America. THE BUCK STOPS WITH THE GUY IN THE HEAD SEAT! That's why CEO'S resign, etc. or stock holders call for a change of leadership. That's business. Not trying to spin - just keeping up with the political spin that we're going to hear for the next 4 months.

S. Lindsey
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delete

harsh sorry....comment not worth making...

grizz
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The Buck
Quote:

THE BUCK STOPS WITH THE GUY IN THE HEAD SEAT!

Unless you're Obama the totalitarian fascist. Then you just blame your failures on Bush and the Republicans.

Davids mom
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Grizz

Why thank you for giving me this opportunity!

• Beginning a recovery - slow, but a recovery Obama
• Bringing Bin Laden to justice
Oh - you get the drift. Now you'll continue to spew your 'stuff' - and I'll ignore it as I wish you would ignore me. Thanks!

JeffC
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A shred of evidence for you SL

Evidence of what? Romney running Bain after he supposedly retired in 1999? That is not in question but FYI here is a link to Romney's own SEC filing in 2001 that states:

Bain Capital Partners VI, L.P., a Delaware limited partnership ("Bain Partners VI") is the sole general partner of Fund VI and Coinvestment Fund. Bain Capital Investors VI, Inc., a Delaware corporation ("Bain Investors VI"), is the sole general partner of Bain Partners VI. Mr. W. Mitt Romney is the sole shareholder, sole director, Chief Executive Officer and President of Bain Investors VI and thus is the controlling person of Bain
Investors VI.

Bain Capital, Inc., a Delaware corporation ("Bain Capital"), is the sole managing partner of the BCIP entities. Mr. W. Mitt Romney is the sole shareholder, sole director, Chief Executive Officer and President of Bain Capital and thus is the controlling person of Bain Capital.

Brookside Capital Investors, L.P., a Delaware general partnership ("Brookside Investors LP") is the sole general partner of Brookside. Brookside Capital Investors, Inc., a Delaware Corporation ("Brookside Investors Inc.") is the sole general partner of Brookside Investors LP. Mr. W. Mitt Romney is the sole shareholder, sole director, Chief Executive Officer and President of Brookside Investors Inc. and thus is the controlling person of Brookside Investors Inc.

SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION

Veritas
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:-)

:-)

Veritas
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Oops Jeff

You do realize that "Bain Capital VI," is an investment separate from Bain Capital itself. Try again.

JeffC
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Oh yes Veritas

So is Bain NY, which was incorporated in 1999 after Mitt supposedly left Bain Capital (which was also listed in the SEC filing as I'm sure you saw).

Romney really does have a huge problem with this. It's obvious to me that Romney had some dealings with Bain long after 1999. He was not lying when he signed the SEC documents nor was he misrepresenting his position to investors. He was probably being CEO of Bain just like he certifies in the SEC documents. After he moved on to the Olympics and Governorship he disassociated from Bain and legally severed ties to investment funds that were set up while he was CEO. He couldn't just walk away because of his fiduciary duties to his investors. It is all of these legal and tax filings that positioned him to "retroactively retire" to February 1999. I am sure that it was perfectly legal and in fact, standard operating procedure under SEC and IRS rules.

Romney was both running Bain sometimes after 1999 (and it seems like had some input well into 2002) and at the same time, legally retroactively retired from the company in Feb. of 1999. No one but an SEC or IRS lawyer would care usually but now Romney is claiming his retroactive legal retirement as an actual retirement that existed in the real world instead of in IRS and SEC tax and regulation world.

Did Romney outsource jobs and shut down factories and throw people out of work. Of course his company did while he ran it. Hardcore capitalism. That's what Bain Capital does. And let's not forget that Mitt made hundreds of millions of dollars in these deals so it isn't outrageous to question his involvement in them. Still, it is political dynamite. Look at this ad Obama's Super-pac is running:

The Stage

It has gotten over a million hits on YouTube, seven times as many as the second most watched political ad.

What's amazing is that the Romney people seem to have been caught completely flatfooted. How that can be, I have no clue. Gingrich and Perry both attacked him on Bain and they never discussed a coherent response in anticipation of Obama bringing it up?

Really? Can they be that clueless?

grizz
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Jeff

You and the rest of the bedwetting Bainy Babies (we'll refer to you as "Bainies") need to ride that pony all the way to November. It's all a bunch of worthless lies drummed up by Obama the totalitarian fascist.

meanoldconservatives
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grizz

I could be wrong, but I believe the technical term is "Bainers". You know, kinda like "birthers".

S. Lindsey
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Jeff you can tell you are a Politician's Son...

Throwing mud, changing subject etc... Jeff the question is... DID Romney make business decisions specifically in reference to Outsourcing during the period between 1999 and 2002.
That is the essence of the claim made by Obama and team. The question is NOT rather any jobs were ever outsourced nor is it about rather he had legal responsibilities at Bain after 1999. It is all about the claim of him being a Felon and that he was involved in day to day operations... Jeff that is the issue...Nothing else.

How about all of the Companies Romney while at Bain Saved.

Ever shopped at Staples Jeff?

"Over Romney’s 15 year career with Bain Capital, he helped turned $37 million and seven employees into 115 employees and $4 billion. For his efforts, he amassed a personal wealth of up to $250 million, depending on the estimate."

Now that's job creation Jeff... Something Obama knows nothing about..

" In 1986, Bain acquired Firestone’s wheel-making division, known then as Accuride. In one year, after Bain rebuilt the company’s production capabilities and redesigned its executive pay, Accuride increased its number of plants by 16%. Bain sold the company after just 18 months and turned its $5 million investment into over $120 million."

But I know... I know... Wealth creation is evilllll.....

" In 1994 Bain injected $18.2 million into the Steel Dynamics a Steel manufacturing company. Four years later the company went public, and it now pulls in $6.3 billion in revenue and employs 6,000 workers."

...and there are literally dozens of stories just like these.

Jeff instead of demonizing Capitalism you guys should be praising this type of work..oh but wait you're a progressive so....

Robert W. Morgan
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Obama got jobs - plenty of them. All green as well

Solyndra. Remember that one? Why Romney doesn't bash him with Solyndra is a mystery. Or why he doesn't talk about job sent overseas as a result of government meddling, regulation and high taxes. Grow a pair Mitt. Prezbo is blowing smoke and in some cases outright lying. I know the brain dead blind followers won't be swayed away from Obama no matter what, but Romney can certainly use a measured and forceful rebuttal of Obama's crap directed at the 10 or 20% that on the left leaning toward the center. That would be enough to win in November.

kcchiefandy
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Along this vein, SL, and to JeffC...

...for those who don't realize management of businesses like Bain, et al, are responsible for making the business PROFITABLE, as they owe it to their stockholders, and if private, to the company itself. Certainly 'shipping' jobs overseas sounds ominous, but when done it's either for cheaper labor costs (US unions must own up to some of the responsibility for this), or US workers don't have the technical skills needed. Also, what about foreign companies who ship jobs over HERE? BMW, VW, Mercedes, Kia, Hyundai, and probably hundreds/thousands of smaller companies (some in PTC, right?)I don't know about, specifically, employ thousands of Americans. Are their citizens storming the airwaves or picketing those companies? It is, and has been for several decades, a GLOBAL economy, with give-and-take on both sides of this issue. Politicians just kick it around to gain favor with the voters who respond to blantant, low-brow, populist tripe.

Davids mom
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KC
Quote:

gain favor with the voters who respond to blantant, low-brow, populist tripe.

Interesting concept. In the late 1800's, the goal of the Populist was to replace the Democrats as a second party and form alliance with the 'farmers'. I'm sure there has been some change in 'Populist' goals as adopted by the two parties of 2012. But what a mess! A Congress that can do nothing. A 'third' party attempt by 'leaders' who don't agree with the Supreme Court or the Executive Branch - so therefore nothing gets done. Who needs terrorists when we are destroying ourselves because we can't use our freedoms to work together?

kcchiefandy
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Definition of POPULIST

My take on it, via Merriam-Webster: a member of a political party claiming to represent the common people. I.E., shouting out 'they shipped jobs overseas' in an attempt to rile those who don't see or understand the larger scope of this, or many other, issues.

Davids mom
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KC
Quote:

shouting out 'they shipped jobs overseas' in an attempt to rile those who don't see or understand the larger scope of this, or many other, issues.

Using your 'take', I think according to yesterday's news, that's both parties. Are our leaders appealing to the lowest common denominator of our citizenry? Maybe so - since so few citizens really do their own research to try to get at the truth (and even then, the truth is sometimes so well camouflaged that it's difficult to discern.) They've got four more months to try to persuade us what is best for our country. The Republicans seem to be softening the attack. Let's see if the Democrats follow - or the Republicans continue - and give us a break. Please share your (I'm speaking to the candidates) opinions without the personal (dirty) attacks. Maybe more of us will listen, make up our minds and VOTE!

kcchiefandy
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Oh, yes, I very much agree, DM...

...that is happening! Simple sound bytes to stir us while we're working & carrying on our non-political lives; it can be quite consuming for those who don't have the luxury of extra time to 'study' the issue(s) in great depth. That's why I like this site; it's a quick way to peruse and/or find articles, opinions, and different views.

I do think the POTUS stepped in it with his speech about 'if you have a business, you didn't build it...had help...etc...'. True for some, but not for all, but all did accept the risks. I wonder, did he say anything about those many businesses that failed; will they get their money back?

Davids mom
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KC

We'll find that the 'media' and the manipulators will take comments made by the candidates and 'spin' them to make their points. It's called politics. It's a shame, because both of these candidates seem to speak from the heart and not necessarily the 'written speech'. They are both certain to 'step in it' during the next four months. Romney has a 'pro and con' problem in that the Tea Party is not really behind him nor do they trust him. That, in some eyes, is a plus. For many, it's a negative-IMO.

kcchiefandy
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One thing, DM...

...I am quite happy about is that we have two decent family men running that appear to be commited to their wives & families; no affairs or adultry scandals to sully their characters - thus far.

Davids mom
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KC

So true!

JeffC
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Deciphering SL world?
S. Lindsey wrote:

The question is NOT rather any jobs were ever outsourced nor is it about rather he had legal responsibilities at Bain after 1999. It is all about the claim of him being a Felon and that he was involved in day to day operations... Jeff that is the issue...Nothing else.

Says who, you? Dream on.

The issue is that Mitt is taking his tenure at Bain and trying to turn it into evidence of a jobs creation platform when it was nothing of the sort. He ran vulture venture capital funds that were formed to generate wealth for his clients and for himself. That's capitalism if that's what you want to do, but Romney's people can't claim all the jobs he supposedly created and then also claim the destruction that Bain wrought for many companies and for the people who worked for them is somehow off limits for discussion (although props to you for trying).

Contrary to your assertion, every outsourced job is an issue and every closed factory is an issue. Every out of work person as a result of something Bain did is an issue. Whether or not Romney ran the day-to-day operation after 1999 is not as you say:

S. Lindsey wrote:

the issue...Nothing else.

It is barely even relevant now. The election is four months away. The Obama people are more than happy for Mitt to spend another week explaining "retroactive retirement" but they've got the SEC documents with Mitt himself certifying that "Mr. W. Mitt Romney is the sole shareholder, sole director, Chief Executive Officer and President of Bain Capital and thus is the controlling person of Bain Capital." It does not matter a whit whether he ran the day-to-day operation. The SEC documents do not matter because they show Mitt was running Bain. The documents are important because they supposedly raise a "question" that can only be answered by Mitt releasing more tax returns. Which he won't because in some years, he didn't pay any taxes on millions and millions of dollars. Or worse yet, he got millions back in tax refunds.

You can make baseless accusations of me throwing mud or trying to change the subject and you can condescendingly attribute a position to me such as "But I know... I know... Wealth creation is evilllll....." then mock me by proxy for its absurdity and you can even label me a progressive insinuating whatever that insinuates but I am still fairly certain of this: just because something is legal under SEC and IRS rules doesn't make it good politics.

S. Lindsey
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Jeff

Ok you live in yours and I will live in mine... Call me in 10 years and we will see who is better off.

You are changing the subject.. The Commercial and the Obama team is calling Romney a felon..because they claim he still ran Bain from 1999 to 2002 and was responsible for the day to day operations not that Bain outsourced. Except during that period that is.

Jeff you believe the American People as a whole are stupid. Maybe the ones that vote in lockstep with Democrats are but in general the population is not.

JeffC wrote:
S. Lindsey wrote:

The question is NOT rather any jobs were ever outsourced nor is it about rather he had legal responsibilities at Bain after 1999. It is all about the claim of him being a Felon and that he was involved in day to day operations... Jeff that is the issue...Nothing else.

Says who, you? Dream on.

JeffC wrote:

It does not matter a whit whether he ran the day-to-day operation.

The SEC documents do not matter because they show Mitt was running Bain. The documents are important because they supposedly raise a "question" that can only be answered by Mitt releasing more tax returns. Which he won't because in some years, he didn't pay any taxes on millions and millions of dollars. Or worse yet, he got millions back in tax refunds.

You can make baseless accusations of me throwing mud or trying to change the subject and you can condescendingly attribute a position to me such as "But I know... I know... Wealth creation is evilllll....." then mock me by proxy for its absurdity and you can even label me a progressive insinuating whatever that insinuates but I am still fairly certain of this: just because something is legal under SEC and IRS rules doesn't make it good politics.

Like you said it makes good politics..Doesn't matter if it's factual Jeff. This is what you guys are doing to the political system. Tha damage you are doing by trying to destroy Capitalism just for a political purpose is quiet frankly IMO un-American.

JeffC wrote:

It does not matter a whit whether he ran the day-to-day operation.

But isn't that the very heart of the "FELON" claim Jeff and the very heart of the Commercial insinuating Romney LIED about his time after 1999?

You see even you know it's all kabuki theater but yet you and those like you (DM) still parrot the lines.

I guess the venture capital firm Avenue Venture that Chelsy Clinton was employed by never outsourced or the one John Kerry's Venture Capital never outsourced?

Come on Jeff get real.

So is it working? According to CBS and the New York Times no it isn't.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57475178-503544/obama-romney-in-d...

JeffC
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Ok SL
S. Lindsey wrote:

Tha damage you are doing by trying to destroy Capitalism just for a political purpose is quiet frankly IMO un-American

Grab a copy of The Scent of a Woman and jump ahead about 2 hours and 23 minutes. Pick it up where Al Pachino says, "Who the hell do you think you're talking too.?"

S. Lindsey
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Oh I know who I am talking to...

but it is your party that is trying to destroy free market Capitalism. If they can't control it they just co-opt it i.e. GM, GE and others. Crony Capitalism at it's best..

The constant attack has given rise to the Occupy movement and then of course the co-opting of that by Democrats and yes Jeff by parroting the lies and then demonizing businesses gives rise to the latest Obama fumble.

Obama:" “If you’ve got a business, you did not build that–somebody else made that happen,”

Madness.

Veritas
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Jeff This applies equally to Obama...Right

"every outsourced job (jobs Czar Immelt and alot of stimulus money) is an issue and every closed factory is an issue. Every out of work person as a result of something (substitute) Obama and his job Czar immelt did is an issue". This applies to your man as well ... Correct or you float that free pass liberals love so much.

S. Lindsey
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Veritas it is useless

No matter the truth Jeff and those like him will always spin it the way they want to see it.. This election won't be about facts or truth it will be about perception and the cult of personality that is Obama.

JeffC
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Absolutely Veritas

Jobs gained and lost under Obama is not only fair game but has got to be Mitt's fundamental issue.

It's a huge mistake politically for the Romney people to have let themselves get distracted from that message.

Romney is concerned over what people might say if he releases his taxes? Who cares? It's four months until the election and that news would be old and buried in two weeks. Instead, they are allowing Obama to change the subject from jobs to Bain Capital with a "what is he hiding" theme as a bonus.

Davids mom
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This won't help slow the implosion

From Huffington Post:

7/16/12

Quote:

Democrats are mocking Republicans in the House of Representatives for voting to repeal the health care reform law and keep their own enhanced medical care.
When Congress passed the health care law, it required members of Congress to get their insurance on exchanges with the rest of the public. But in voting to repeal that law, Republicans and a handful of Democrats were also voting to go back to the old system where the lawmakers get a sweeter deal than most of the rest of the country.

S. Lindsey
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Really DM?

"Only 29 Percent of Independents Think Obamacare Is ‘Good’ for America"

"The latest polling by Rasmussen Reports shows that independents think Obamacare would raise (53 percent), rather than lower (16 percent), health costs. They think it would reduce (50 percent), rather than improve (13 percent), the quality of health care. They think it would raise (56 percent), rather than lower (13 percent), the deficit. And they think it would be bad (50 percent), rather than good (29 percent), for the country. Not surprisingly, by a 13-point margin (51 to 38 percent), they think Obamacare should be repealed."

So Dm with Democrats in lockstep with Obama and Republicans in lockstep with Romney just who is it that is going to elect the President?

With more Americans identifying themselves as "Conservatives" economically
by a margin of 46% conservative to 20% liberal just where are you going to get those votes from?

Oh right the Illegal Alien vote.

Davids mom
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SL
Quote:

Oh right the Illegal Alien vote.

Only one who has had the 'entitlement' of voting in every state of the union could 'joke' about the right to vote.

I was/am a fierce fighter for CITIZENS RIGHT TO VOTE!. You and Michelle Bachman are on the same 'stuff'.

S. Lindsey
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Why Thank You DM

I like Michelle B and yes I do happen to believe Illegal Aliens should not have the right to vote. I know you and your progressive buddies do but starting off in this Country as a criminal doesn't really endear them to me...

Davids mom
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What SL?????

.

Quote:

I know you and your progressive buddies do

What? Are you dizzy from your spinning? Please tell me I have misunderstood that quote. You can't mean that I, a black woman, after years of not having the right to vote in Georgia, want illegals to have the right to vote over night!!!!!! Oh - I know I have misinterpreted your quote.

THAT QUOTE IS THE IGNORANT COMMENT YOU SHOULD HAVE DELETED!!

S. Lindsey
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Nope you didn't

... and I meant it too.

"The Mayor of New Haven, CT is asking for permission from the state government to allow illegal aliens to vote in municipal elections."

Yep a Democrat...

"State Assembly Bill 78, written by Tony Mendoza (D-Norwalk) seeks to put an advisory measure on the state ballot asking California voters if they think the United States is responsible to grant amnesty to longtime illegal aliens currently living unlawfully inside America."

Yep Democrats too...

"The U.S. Department of Justice is suing Florida to stop its push to remove what it says are ineligible voters from their rolls."

...and shocker more Democrats...

So yes DM I feel pretty comfortable with saying you guys are pushing to allow illegals to vote, drive, collect Social Security etc...

Davids mom
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SL

Black women (YOU GUYS) are supporting an effort to give ILLEGALS the right to vote? Did you see the article about Rubio's name being on the list of ineligible voters in Florida?

Quote:

So yes DM I feel pretty comfortable with saying you guys are pushing to allow illegals to vote, drive, collect Social Security etc...

You return to your dreamland of being informed about who and why supports THE RIGHT TO VOTE IN AMERICA.

Good night SL.

S. Lindsey
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There's that chip again...

"You Guys" = "Black Women"

That's a wow factor of at least 8 right there...

Davids mom
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Reading comprehension?

I said in an earlier post:

Quote:

You can't mean that I, a black woman, after years of not having the right to vote in Georgia, want illegals to have the right to vote over night!!!!!!

. . .and you answer with Democrats? Gosh - women and minorities really just don't exist in SOME American's consciousness. We do exist. . . but I guess not in your dreamland. Fortunately I know that all 'whites' do not comprehend on your level. Has nothing to do with political party SL. It's not a chip. It's an acceptance that some don't take the time to see a situation from another point of view.

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