That's Racist!

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Joe Kawfi
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More Liberal-Progressive B.S......

Tucson schools create race-based system of discipline


With the goal of creating a "restorative school culture and climate" that conveys a "sense of belonging to all students," the board is insisting that its schools reduce its suspensions and/or expulsions of minority students to the point that the data reflect "no ethnic/racial disparities."

Joe Kawfi
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That's Racist!

Barry: 'We’ve got to do something about these Asians coming in'

“We got to do something about these Asians coming in and opening up businesses and dirty shops,” Barry said in remarks first reported by WRC-TV. “They ought to go. I’m going to say that right now. But we need African-American businesspeople to be able to take their places, too.”

Obama, Sharpton, Jackson, the NAACP, and the main stream media and all other race-mongers that call for 'civility' could not be reached for comment.

grizz
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Must have been the crack talking

Joe - What do you expect from a crackhead like Barry? The drugs did a lot of damage to his noggin. Problem is, the voters just keep electing this racist into office over, and over and over and over again. They don't care. Remember- You can't be a racist if you are black; only a victim.

Cyclist
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Good Gawd!!!

Barry is back in the news????

Davids mom
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Barry
RKS
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Marion Crackhead

If anyone takes anything that Marion Crackhead Barry says as anything other than a bag of rubbish, then they are as silly as he is.

grizz
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cyclist

It's the new Democrat 'War on Asians'

It's amazing how one of the 'poorest of the cities wards' keeps electing the same person. Do you think they ever wonder why they continue to be poor?

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grizz

"Poorest of the city's wards"

I call it.......moocherville. Which is why those areas will always be poor.

PTC Observer
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Cyclist - Are you

copying Ben's ideas?

"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer." --Benjamin Franklin, "Management of the Poor" (1766)

Cyclist
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You know PTC Observer...

Ben was one smart man. If only LBJ would have heeded his words of wisdom.

Davids mom
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Cyclist

. . . or Hoover or George W Bush. LOL.

PTC Observer
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Hoover - DM

Had a dam named after him for a reason......he was a central planner of the worst kind. He, like Wilson, was a "progressive", just like you DM.

So, go read some history.

As for GW, he's suffered from not being too smart. Good thing too, he could have been like Wilson and had a "vision" thing. ;-)

Davids mom
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PTCO

Stop trying to place individuals into ideological boxes, I'm a moderate in today's uncooperative mess where nothing gets done. If some would just work together , there are solutions to our serious domestic and international challenges. As long as we are divided, we are vulnerable .

PTC Observer
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DM - OK

I promise not to put you in an ideological box, I'll let you do that with your posts here.

Now, the best way for all of us to work together is to get the government out of our lives so we can act in our own interests. That means we let the free market work to satisfy as many people as possible through free exchange.

Nothing brings people together in a common cause more than.......

CAPITALISM

It's the only way out of poverty for millions and out of our "serious domestic and international challenges".

Davids mom
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PTCO
Quote:

Now, the best way for all of us to work together is to get the government out of our lives so we can act in our own interests. That means we let the free market work to satisfy as many people as possible through free exchange.

Wat government programs would you get out of our lives?

What actions would be observable that would demonstrate that Americans are acting in their own interests?

As many people as possible? Who is designated to be left out? At least you're offering a program!!

Thanks.

PTC Observer
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Well - DM

"Wat government programs would you get out of our lives?"

As many as possible, the more the better. You see DM, the government doesn't do anything well. From and economic standpoint, the government's debt plus spending crowds out capital and doesn't allocate resources effectively. So the more we can reduce the size and scope of government the more the free market (read free individuals) can choose to invest in those things (products and services) that add value to their individual lives. Oh BTW, in case you haven't noticed, the government is broke.

"What actions would be observable that would demonstrate that Americans are acting in their own interests?"

Human action, all humans act in their own self-interest. Every time you buy something you are acting in your own self-interest. You are exchanging money you have earned through your physical or intellectual labor for goods and services you believe gives you something of equal or greater value. Both parties to this exchange believe they are better off than before the exchange. To wit, if you look around you, you will see a society that was created by this free exchange. The only thing that slows down this value creation is government and dishonesty, not to be redundant.

"As many people as possible? Who is designated to be left out?"

When people are free to act, no one is left out, all have an equal chance to succeed based on their abilities, talents, skills, and creativity. It is when power of government decides to mandate that one individual or a group of individuals should be held "special" or when someone in government decides that it's their "vision" of the way things should be that counts. When laws are passed to cut someone out to the benefit someone else we have the foundation for conflict between individuals. You see, now we are back to the first question, I would cut as much government out of our lives as possible. In my opinion that's most of it.

You have heard this before from me DM, the only role government should play in our lives is to protect our lives, our freedom and our property. That's it. That is the reason we had the kind of government we once had but alas it is no more.

Davids mom
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PTCO

Thank you

PTC Observer
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DM - You're

You're welcome.

Now I have a couple of questions for you.

Do you believe that government has the "right" to force people to give up their money so the government can then give that money to someone else considered by the government to be "less fortunate"?

If so, what is the justification for your position?

Davids mom
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PTCO

I'v read enough history to know that not just one ideology has all the answers. There is nothing new under the sun. Biblical history and before has many of the situations that we are facing today. We as humans just can't seem to learn the lessons that history offers. We keep making the same mistakes. One is thinking that 'our' way is the only way.

Joe Kawfi
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A Fed Animal is a Dead Animal

This pretty much sums it up......

A Fed Animal is a Dead Animal

Have you ever been to a national park in this country? You'll encounter signs everywhere telling you not to feed the animals. And the reason that you are not to feed the animals according to the US Park Service is that the animals must learn to fend for themselves if they are to survive and thrive. When you feed animals they become dependent and no longer function as nature intends. They lose their capacity to make their own way. They lose their edge. They fill up on foods that are harmful. There is a dulling of the instincts that help wildlife avoid danger. They lose the fear of humans and cars, leading many of them to be killed while expecting to be fed. Some signs are downright mean. "A fed animal is a dead animal," is one such sign.

I think we can agree on the wisdom of this warning. Are there any situations outside the national park that are similar?

For example, could one conclude that providing welfare assistance creates such dependence in recipients who become unable to, or less likely to, thrive on their own. Would this be an unintended consequence or part of a plan to control the people?

Davids mom
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Kawfi

Did you ever read Malcolm X or James Baldwin?

Quote:

For example, could one conclude that providing welfare assistance creates such dependence in recipients who become unable to, or less likely to, thrive on their own. Would this be an unintended consequence or part of a plan to control the people?

Davids mom
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Helping hand up

. . . instead of a foot in the back holding one down. What is common among the poor? Poor health; poor education; low self- esteem; lack of hope. When groups/individuals have been given a helping hand - progress out of poverty was the result . The US groups the poor in one location; does little to demand responsibility; etc., and then wonders why there is hopelessness in these areas. The businesses that do well are drugs and prostitution. Sad. (And great accolades to those who get out of the ghetto or barrio- as if that is the unexpected.

PTC Observer
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DM - The

The best way to lead people out of poverty is to allow free markets to exist.

It's called CAPITALISM

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Davids mom
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. . . does little to demand responsibility;

OK, you got my attention. How does a community or the "guv" instill responsibility without a certain political group crying foul.

Davids mom
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CyclIst

By adding responsibility to the 'hand-outs' . . .and teaching those who have not been expected to assume responsibility HOW to be responsible. Other countries have done this with success. I hate to say this - but poverty in the US in some sectors has become big business. Private prisons have really benefitted from our 'no rehabilitation' policy - and poor communities have suffered when these criminals come out as better criminals. . .uneducated and unprepared to be productive in a civil community. WE had to fight to get the welfare system from pushing black men out of the home in order for their families to receive assistance. There was even a fight to limit the time one could receive welfare - and stop the generational aspect to welfare recipients. Yeah, in some sectors poverty is big business. What was interesting and educational for me is this devastating practice was nor just affecting black families. True, minorities had a higher percentage of welfare recipients, but the majority of recipients are the ' majority' citizens . ( Especially now with the high unemployment rate among middle age white males. There are solutions, and if 'leaders' could get beyond political labels and work together, we could learn from the mistakes of the past and move forward. Neither party leadership seems interested in anything beyond the next election. China has taken certain aspects of capitalism and used it to their advantage. We've given 'free market' advantage to those overseas. Thanks Mr. Nixon!

WE= citizens of both genders, different ideologies and all races who worked together on revamping the welfare system. You'd be surprised where resistance to change was evident .

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OK Davids mom

I'm with you so far. What's your definition of the big business in poverty?

Davids mom
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Cyclist

I mentioned one or two - but will go in more detail tomorrow.
1. The Private Prison industry
2. The small medical clinic business ( ripping off the government funding)
3. The illegal drug trade
4. The cost of health care ( separate from the cost of insurance)

Individuals and small and big business have 'used' the plight of the poor to gain great
profit by fraudulent billing to government programs. IMO.

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Daivds mom

Private prisons, eh? So we take them out of equation along with the others you mentioned and poverty vanishes.

If we may, lets move back to question of responsibility and how the community or the "guv" can instill it.

Davids mom
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Instilling responibiity

. PARENT EDUCATION!

. FOCUSING ON THE EDUCATION OF THE DISADVANTAGED/INCARCERATED

. INTEGRATING COMMUNITY AND GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS SO THAT MORE DISADVANTAGED CAN BE SERVED

. EFFECTIVE MONITORING OF GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS AND COMMUNITY PROGRAMS THAT ARE RECEIVING GOVERNMENT FUNDING.

Where these strategies have been used, improvement has been measured : Higher employment rate among participants; lower return to prisons; less need for government funds in communities where programs were monitored effectively. In my opinion, the most important and most neglected is parent education. Churches in many communities have done a good job in these areas - but often are restricted by religious dictates. In Fayette County, there are many organizations who work together to assist the 8.2% of families with an unemployed member. WILL THE FURTHER IMPLEMENTATION OF PROGRAMS (COMMUNITY AND/OR GOVERNMENT) ELIMINATE POVERTY? Of course not - but it will present more opportunity to those who are willing to put forth the effort to escape poverty. To those of us who are Christian, Jesus is quoted as saying "We will always have the poor among us." In the major religions of the world - the Golden Rule guides us on how to treat our neighbors. . .and that hopefully includes our 'poor' neighbors. To those that you refer to who will not take advantage of opportunities - that is their problem. It is our problem if the opportunities are not available to all who are willing to put forth the effort to take advantage of the opportunities that this country should offer all of its citizens. The most important aspect to instilling 'responsibility' belongs to PARENTS - and we have too many who have had children without a role model for parenting - hence the need for parent education.

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Davids mom
Davids mom wrote:

. PARENT EDUCATION!
The most important aspect to instilling 'responsibility' belongs to PARENTS - and we have too many who have had children without a role model for parenting - hence the need for parent education.

We are in agreement well at least with your statement above. It's called role models and sadly many are not able to achieve that. We see the breakdown occuring when Joe gets Sally pregnant and then Sally gets pregnant again and again and again through other casual encounters.

Life is about the choices one makes. Make the wrong chooses and the consequences and or outcome can be less than diserable.

grizz
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Parent Education

One of the biggest factors is actually having Parents. Unfortuanately, there is a segment of the population where 70% out-of-marriage wedlock exists and the father is usually absent, or they don't know who the baby-daddy is. When only the mother is at home and she has to work to support the kids, then the kids are neglected and the downward spiral begins.

The degredation of the family unit is most to blame. If there were 2 parent families with a Father and a Mother who were there to lead and discipline the children, a lot of the problems we see in America today would decrease dramatically.

mudcat
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And when did that degradation begin?

That's right - LBJ and his Great Society Program. And with all that history on the table, black voters still support Democrats - always have - even without the Obama factor. Odd, but so do Jewish voters 3-1. Don't understand it.

Davids mom
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mudact

. . . and unless there is a change in the GOP stand regarding women - women will vote for a Democrat. Sorry you don't understand.

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Welfare queens maybe, but working women and

traditional family Moms are too smart to buy into the Democrat nonsense with that activist who can't afford birth control and the other childish stunts designed to attract the gullible and greedy to vote for Obama. I understand that much, what I don't understand is why successful working black men and women are not more resentful of the damage the federal government under Democrat leadership did to the traditional black family - which in many ways was stronger than the white suburban families hastily created after WWII. People like Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams get it.

Davids mom
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Mudcat

You need to broaden your viewing/information gathering. The latest polls show the Republican Party losing the support of women in this country - over the contraceptive nonsense. Let's see if the Romneys can heal this before November. You need to read more than Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams to get a view of the 'black' community. Damage to the black family started with slavery - and we still see the remnants of that in the welfare system as currently implemented. Partisanship has very little to do with this history. (And then there is that 'ism' that so many here feel is non-existent - and refuse to acknowledge - racism.)

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Slavery didn't hurt black American families

The slaves were brought here from other countries and that was a shameful stain on this country. The black American families started forming in large numbers after slavery and the strongest black communities (which are formed by strong families) were up north where a lot of jobs were created during the late 1800's - jobs that were hard and dirty, but jobs that enabled people to work and create family units to be proud of in spite of the stupid racism of southerners, politicians, the government and even the military well into WWII. Forming strong black families and communities despite the obstacles is something to be proud of. Having government tear it all apart in less than 3 generations is shameful and just plain wrong. And another example of why government should avoid social engineering - it is one more thing they don't do well.

Haven't seen much racism around here but there sure is a lot of bigotry - a different concept than racism, but one that is more accurate. And the bigotry is pretty strong from both blacks and whites.

Davids mom
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Mudcat

Your narrative is accurate - your title is not. Slavery hurts any group of humans. Not all of the slaves made it to Canada or the north. The majority were part of the southern rural culture/economy. However, there were strong black families in the south who achieved and worked with white families to bring the south to where it is today in race relations. Government practices have made some families dependent on welfare - BUT THESE WERE NOT THE FAMILIES WHO ACHIEVED due to opportunities that were made available to them. Those families are strong and contributing today. The majority of black families did not recover from the institution of slavery - nor did they ever find their relatives who were sold during slavery in order to establish a FAMILY.

Quote:

Haven't seen much racism around here but there sure is a lot of bigotry - a different concept than racism, but one that is more accurate. And the bigotry is pretty strong from both blacks and whites.

RACIST/BIGOT - both concepts 'ugly'

Quote:

A racist is someone who believes in the superiority of one race over another, or who acts differently (usually negatively) towards a person or a group of people because of their race. An example would be a member of the Ku Klux Klan, who espouse the superiority of the white race.
A bigot is a blinkered, narrow-minded person, usually also very intolerant and unable to see anyone else's point of view. People can be bigoted about things that have nothing to do with race, for example, religion or sexual orientation. A prime example would be Archie Bunker from the old television sitcom "All in the Family."
All racists are bigots, but by no means are all bigots racist. That is, a racist is a bigot against a particular race or every race except for his/hers.

MYTMITE
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DM, sort of like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton?

Then there is Spike Lee and quite a few others. Jesse Jackson had the backing of many white people when he wanted to run for president, many of those people were jewish--yet he made his 'hymie town' remark. I have known as many black racists and bigots as I have known white ones. Bigotry, racism and ignorance crosses all lines. If we could all be little flies on the wall and listen in on the conversation of others, of all races, creeds, colors, sexual persuasion, whatever--we would be surprised. Years ago when we lived in Miami, our new neighborhood had several black families, one which lived right next door to us. We got along fine with everyone. One night my husband and I were sitting out by our pool, which had a wooden fence around it--our black neighbors were having some of their friends over--we heard one of the men who was visiting say to our neighbor "Man I can't believe you picked a white, honkey neighborhood to live in." It cracked me up----then I heard the neighbor defend himself and his neighbors by saying we were nice for white people--and that really cracked me up. People are people regardless of every other circumstance.

Davids mom
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Mytimite

Yeah - we have a long way to go to get past this racist/bigot thing as humans. But its worth the effort to keep trying. Have a great day - it is absolutely beautiful today!

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So, it seems like Al Sharpton has come up with a new

'politically correct" (at least in his world) connotation. Now Zimmerman is a White Hispanic---as a columnist I read this morning pointed out--"Does that make President Obama a White African?" Just wondering.

Davids mom
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Mytimite

Hi! Why is it so difficult for some to call Obama an American? He is truly an African American. What is interesting is that I had children in one school whose parents were from South Africa. They were 'white'. They correctly called themselves African American. Labels in this country are interesting.

MYTMITE
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DM, I have no problem calling anyone born in this country an

American. I have always been against hyphenated names, i.e., african-american, cuban-american, etc. I think if you are a native born American you are an American of whatever descent---be that African, Italian, Irish or whatever. My background is Irish, French, English and Italian, yet I identify myself as an American. I just find it ingenious for Sharpton to start calling Zimmerman a white hispanic. If the circumstances were different and he was on Zimmerman's side he would be touting the fact far and wide that Zimmerman was an hispanic. After all white (caucasian) is a race and hispanic is a nationality.

Davids mom
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Mytimite

I certainly understand what you are saying - and I agree. The only time that I, a black woman from the US, have been called just American is when I travel outside the US. Since birth I have been identified as colored, Negro, black, and most recently - African American. You, with your varied background, are identified as 'white'. In the US, race has been the identifier - and 'white' has not limited ones access to the American way of life. Today, those of Hispanic background are experiencing the label of not being 'white'. Now Hispanics truly come in all colors - and there are 'black' Hispanics. Our sons visiting brother from Mexico (in the 70's) - an exchange program for middle school students between the US and Mexico - was Asian (Japanese). His identifier? Mexican - his nationality. I am proud of my nationality - but my nation has not always identified me as 'just American'.

Davids mom
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See my question to Cyclist

.

Cyclist
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Choice : Edit

Darn it..

It should read.....

Life is about the choices one makes. Make the wrong choice and the consequences and or outcome can be less than desirable.

That's what I get when I made the choice of not proofing throughly.

Davids mom
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Cyclistl

No one doubts that a mistake like that has any reflection on your sincerity and/or your SUPERIOR intelligence. Thanks for sharing - makes one think!!

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Davids mom - Superior intelligence

Surely you jest. Remember, I'm just a fat guy that rides a bicycle.

Davids mom
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Cyclist

LOL! You provoke thought - and that's a good thing. Thanks.

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Cyclistl

This is a different discussion - and this is probably not the place for it: BUT regarding Sally getting pregnant - there are some who want to shut down Planned Parenthood - and 'outlaw' contraceptives - BUT every other commercial is advertising a 'help' for men to achieve erection. What's that about? More children without adequate parents as role models? No contraception + better erection = baby. Right?

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Davids mom - Ah that wonderful...

organization called Planned Parenthood.

So they remedy Sally's sexual cravings by:

Providing her the pill - at our expense

or

Hey there's this doctor down the street and he can.............

Oh, about the man thingy.....Planned Parenthood can't remedy that.

grizz
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Cyclist

No one wants to outlaw contraceptives as DM asserts. It's just another big fat liberal lie to try to take peoples minds off of Obama's dismal failure as president.

Davids mom
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Cyclist/Grizz/mudcat

There are always two sides to an issue

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2012/04/04/women_do_care_about_cont...

Just sharing.

Davids mom
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Women and contraception

The contraceptive gives a woman control over when she will have a child; to prepare her body to deliver a healthy child, etc., etc., etc. It seems that men forget that this is not only a nine month commitment - but a life time commitment to another human being. It is not just about sex or erections. This has nothing to do with PARTISANSHIP. . . . .but is an important life issue for women who are involved in the work force, etc. Just sharing. I know that I won't change any minds here.

grizz
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Women are free to purchase contraceptives

There is no issue here. It is a big fat lie made up by liberals.
No one is trying to take their precious pills from them. They can exercise their freedom to purchase them as much as they want - just not on the taxpayer dime.

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You're right grizz....

and I wonder why the "guv" has to provide when Wally World sells them for nine dollars. Gee, this same discussion was sort of on the news a month ago.

Davids mom
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Inquiring minds want to know

. . . how much does Viagra and all that other stuff cost for insuring that the baby making tool works correctly?

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Beats me....

I Google'd the contraceptive price.

Davids mom
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Cyclist

Yikes! I googled it just for the heck of it.

Authentic Viagra is now more than $20 per pill.

Is it covered in a medical insurance policy?

Look at this!! http://georgia-medicareplans.com/medicare-paying-for-viagra

Come on now - what is all this about? If the guys don't get a break - neither should the gals? (This is not exactly what I blog for - just interesting in trying to see what talking about social issues will bring to the political discussions. Geez.

S. Lindsey
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No it is about creating another entitlement class

and another source of votes for those that dole out the "freebies".

DM can you name one Politicians that has stated that he/she wants to "outlaw" contraceptives?

http://www.people-press.org/2012/04/17/with-voters-focused-on-economy-ob...

Pew Poll show more people concerned with the economy not "The Pill".

PTC Observer
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DM - And

And if there weren't any government programs, would there be any fraudulent billing for government to suffer through?

What of illegal drugs? Would there be a big business to fill all those private prisons if we simply had a more rational approach to drug use?

Defrauding government programs and drugs both part of the same fundamental issue, government control of individuals and there lives.

Let's link you to something so you can visualize government spending and the national debt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SV-xPS5-GxE&context=C452aa41ADvjVQa1PpcFM...

Davids mom
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PTCO

Continue to paint the picture of a country that cannot succeed unless it follows your ideology - and you and your ideology will be left in the dust. You have offered only cute/over used statements as solutions. I am a capitalist in my heart - but everything done in the name of capitalism has not been beneficial to American citizens. You offer the negative to any presentation of a positive/possible solution. My suggestions are based on small attempts at correcting problems that have been successful. - You have offered no SOLUTIONS which can be implemented. Having you at the table is like having an empty chair - with nothing to offer. Thanks for your polite contributions. Let's agree to disagree.

PTC Observer
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DM - Let's

say that we disagree indeed.

Not that I don't believe you, but I find it hard to believe that you are a capitalist at heart. Based on your past posts I believe you truly believe that it's government that is the solution to most of our problems and the more the better. I think it's your opinion that all we have to do is just spend more....and more.....and more. Therefore, I thought I would give you the link to 10000 pennies so you can see how out of control we are as a country.

I also disagree that I have not offered any SOLUTIONS. The only solution is individual freedom, that's it DM. It's a pretty simple concept and it is the antithesis of what I think you believe.

BTW, you haven't answered my question, but I have attempted to answer yours. So, here it is again:

Do you believe that government has the "right" to force people to give up their money so the government can then give that money to someone else considered by the government to be "less fortunate"?

If so, what is the justification for your position?

Davids mom
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PTCO - WE ARE THE GOVERNMENT

WE, THE PEOPLE, ARE THE GOVERNMENT! Now I know you have great difficulty comprehending this because we the people have allowed our representatives to bow to the corporate funds that help them get elected. I know where my tax dollars go - and when I have a problem with the distribution, I contact my representative. . .and do a lot of investigating. Blogging usually doesn't make change - but sharing on the social media has proven affective. Terms like 'individual freedom' are nice sound bites - but don't exactly spell out action strategies for change or improvement. Our country has many challenges at this time - when have we not had challenges?

Quote:

the link to 10000 pennies so you can see how out of control we are as a country.

?????????????????

Your narrative is interesting - but provides NO STRATEGIES FOR CHANGE. We have always spoken of liberty and freedom in our country. To achieve freedom and liberty - plans for action/strategies were developed and followed in order to achieve the freedom that we enjoy. My position is for the citizens of this country to vote and take their power back from the corporate king makers. My tax money goes for the military; health care; and education. When we have problems in these areas - I feel it is my responsibility and my duty as a citizen to personally participate at the local, state, and federal level to insure that my thoughts/concepts are acted upon. (Yes, I've marched to get the attention of my representatives) It appears in the past that only 40% of the eligible voters agree with me - and exercise their right to vote. You apparently don't agree with me. Is your 'plan' working for you? Is your representative spending your money the way you feel it should be spent? We were encouraged to SPEND, SPEND, SPEND after we were attacked and our young women and men were dying overseas. In previous wartimes, we were encouraged to conserve, support our military families, etc., etc., etc. Well - look where the SPEND, SPEND, SPEND got us. I understand many of the conservative viewpoints - but they are being articulated with more clarity than you have expressed. I don't feel I have to justify my position of taking my country back from the corporate king makers. This government belongs to them only because we don't vote! Vote - and we'll have our country back. (I know you vote- but until at least 60% of the eligible voters do - the billionaires will be in control. They are the 'government' that you are fighting with - and this is a shame. No matter what 'ideology' or 'political party' is elected - it will represent the PEOPLE - and not special interest. I know you don't agree with anything I say - but I say it anyway because there should be different viewpoints represented in a discussion. Yes, I believe that government can work towards solving our problems BECAUSE WE ARE THE GOVERNMENT - not the special interest groups/organizations that are funding the elections of our representatives. (And they own the hundreds of members of Congress who have accomplished nothing in the past 15 years because of partisanship and bowing to the funds supplied by the special interest groups so they can run an election campaign. Sad.

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DM - I believe

my question was a yes or no question, with a follow on question if to the affirmative.

Still waiting.....yes or no.

If yes, then please explain the principle for your position.

Thanks

Yes, 10000 pennies (Avatar), here's the link in case you missed it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SV-xPS5-GxE&context=C452aa41ADvjVQa1PpcFM...

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Quote: Do you believe that
Quote:

Do you believe that government has the "right" to force people to give up their money so the government can then give that money to someone else considered by the government to be "less fortunate

No. I don't believe that we are being taxed without representation. I believe we have elected the wrong people to represent us. We are the government . MY taxes pay for those services that I cannot provide for myself. I can't, as an individual, pay for a national military, a public education, a helping hand to those who need help. Bush 1 tried the thousand light volunteer approach, but that didn't work. Are there problems? Yes, but there is a group of citizens in this country who see the problem; don't have an answer or solution; and refuse to work with others to try to solve our problems. Because of these people, we have lost our credit rating and have a Congress that has accomplished nothing- but get their paychecks every month. Their goal from 2008 was to unseat our current President. They have opposed almost every bit of legislation proposed by the President's party. Independents and moderates are beginning to see that this mode of action is not helping the country. We'll see what happens in November. Nite

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DM - WE?

WE elected the wrong people to represent us? This is your argument?

WE certainly don't have the right to take by force other people's property.

The government is not intended to be run by the mob rule of democracy.

A majority of people can't elect other people to take, seize, coerce, or otherwise deprive others of their property, this is an illegitimate use of power and the law. It is not justice DM, it is robbery.

What you have just advocated is:

As long as the majority says it's ok to steal from others then it's right and moral.

This is flawed thinking DM, how can you elect someone to do something for you that you don't first have the right to do yourself? Even if the majority elects those people, the majority doesn't have the right to take by force other people's property.

The government as envisioned by the Founders is the antithesis of the government we have today. It's purpose was to protect people's right to property. To protect individuals from other individuals, but most importantly to protect the individual against the government itself.

Now I know they didn't teach that to you in teachers school but it is true nonetheless. While they didn't teach this to you in school you certainly must know from the Old Testament that you shouldn't steal other people's money or property, right? So either you didn't get this in school or you didn't get it in Sunday school, either way you simply don't get it.

As for November, that won't change a thing, the idea, your idea, is too ingrained into the political and social fabric of the USA. The thievery will continue unabated.

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PTC Observer

DM still has not answered your question regarding income redistribtution. We know what Obama's view on it is. He said himself that we need to "spread the wealth". Unfortunately, that only applies to 50% of earners that actually pay federal taxes. The rest of them get a free ride and have no vested interest in America's infrastruction. Obama likes it that way. The more moochers that are dependent on a government hand-out, the better for him and his radical, marxist agenda.

Obama was supposed to bring the "change" that DM so highly speaks of, but he is beholden to corporations, unions, teachers, and other government workers. He could care less about the average American which is why he and Michelle need to be tossed out of the White House this coming November.

Davids mom
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The Average American
Quote:

He could care less about the average American which is why he and Michelle need to be tossed out of the White House this coming November

Obama opened the purse strings of the average citizen to the surprise of the Republican
Party - hence IMO , the legalization of the PACs. The average American, who is not an ideologue, will vote his/her
pocketbook and access to healthcare.

grizz
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Most Asinine Statement of the Year

The most asinine statement of the year award goes to.......(drum roll, please)............David's Mom!

Davids mom wrote:

True, minorities had a higher percentage of welfare recipients, but the majority of recipients are the ' majority' citizens .

The 'majority' citizens (I guess she means "white") had the highest number of people on welfare. Golly gee-whillikers. How did that happen? Must be the result of the Obama-conomy........................No one is safe!

Davids mom
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Shhhhh

There is an ass in the woods disguised as a bear!

skyspy
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Happy Easter dm

Yet again your true colors shine

grizz
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And yet the race whore speaks again

.....and yet makes another completely irrelevant, asinine comment. Her stupidity and racism knows no bounds.

PTC Observer
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Grizz Please - Let's

Let's try and be a little more civil....you must have a more intelligent approach than this to any argument that you may have against DM's positions. No matter how absurd she is and blind to her obvious faults and shortcomings, she is still a woman and as such deserves some measure of respect.

Or to put it another way, what did your mama teach you?

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PTC-O, Grizz & Civility

PTC-O, absolutely on tgt. One gains nothing by lowering themselves to a level they express disagreement with.

grizz
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AHG and PTCO

I call 'em as I see 'em and make no apologies.

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Malcom X

Quote from Malcom X (otherwise known as El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz)"I meant that the death of Kennedy was the result of a long line of violent acts, the culmination of hate and suspicion and doubt in this country. You see, Lomax, this country has allowed white people to kill and brutalize those they don't like. The assassination of Kennedy is a result of that way of life and thinking. The chickens came home to roost; that's all there is to it. America—at the death of the President—just reaped what it had been sowing."

Using that logic, El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz's 'chickens came home to roost' when he was killed by members of the "Organization of Afro-American Unity."

Not much interest in reading comments by a hate-filled racist.

Davids mom
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But Joe

The quote from your contribution about 'dead animals' was at the very heart of some of the Black Muslim doctrine before Malcom went to Mecca and realized that Islam was not just for 'black' people. The Black Muslims were adamant in teaching responsibility, dignity, and the necessity of hard work based on skill and education. . . .and not depending on others outside of their community. (government) It is interesting that you share your limited knowledge of a group of people you 'fear'. If you read more of those you fear - you would be able to contribute more intelligently to the discussion.

Davids mom
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RKS

You are absolutely right in your estimation of Joe Kawfi.

Joe Kawfi
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Just another hate crime

It's unfortunate that whites are 18 times more likely to be victimized by blacks, but here is more evidence of that. Don't hold your breath waiting for Jesse and Al to march calling for justice even though the unprovoked attack was caught on film by the cowardly thug perpetrators. The victim wasn't the right color.

Crowd Beats, Strips & Robs Tourist On St. Patrick’s Day; Incident Caught On Camera

Davids mom
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:-). SNL

What government programs would you get rid of?

Quote:

As many as possible, the more the better. You see DM, the government doesn't do anything well.

The Saturday Night Live writers must come here for their material now that Sarah Palin appears better prepared.

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DM - SNL?

What does this mean DM?

1. You believe the government does everything well?
2. You believe the government does most things well?
3. You believe it's funny to suggest that any government programs should be cut?
4. You believe that those that write and/or watch SNL are elite progressives that have no intelligent or rational argument for their philosophy so they attempt to demean and humiliate their opponents using tasteless "humor"
5. All of the above

Davids mom
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PTCO
Quote:

1. You believe the government does everything well?
2. You believe the government does most things well?
3. You believe it's funny to suggest that any government programs should be cut?
4. You believe that those that write and/or watch SNL are elite progressives that have no intelligent or rational argument for their philosophy so they attempt to demean and humiliate their opponents using tasteless "humor"
5. All of the above

You are qualified to work for any survey company!! Good job. I have already stated my position. Have a great day!

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Just when you thought you had her pinned down... PTCO

She slips slides away. In a former life she had to be a Politician.

PTC Observer
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S. Lindsey - DM

DM can has no principle which she can point to that is honest, therefore she obfuscates. This is typical of socialists as their intent is to use the force of law to practice theft disguised as "equality" or government "philanthropy".

The reason DM will not answer is because she knows what she believes in as do most leftists. Until citizens understand that the main business of government is legal plunder nothing will change. In the end, socialism like monopolies cannot stand without the force of government.

DM is not a politician but a socialist pawn, but you know this already don't you Lindsey? The question is does DM?

S. Lindsey
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PTCO DM is a case study in Liberal think

along with JeffC both are believers. They are as much of a Fundamentalist as the Snake handling religious boobs they so disdain.

Their beliefs are so mired in the muck of political think that events happening right in front of them are ignored.

Either they actually want the fall of the dollar and the fall of Free Market Capitalism or they are just clueless.

Sometimes I am not sure which it is.

Davids mom
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Deleted by poster

.

Joe Kawfi
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That's Racist!!

“Empty your pockets, white boy.”

Suspect: I Beat Up White Man Because I Am Mad About Trayvon Martin Case

This is exactly what the race hustlers and pimps wanted - eye for an eye.
They don't want justice.

Davids mom
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PTCO / Joe

I'm here. . . . watching your desperate effort to keep citizens separated. Sad. Enjoy your day in your reality. I will continue to enjoy mine working with citizens of Fayette County from all backgrounds who are fighting racism by demonstrating the Golden Rule. Guess what! Both Conservatives and Liberals are more than capable of doing this. . .and they are doing it without trying to belittle their neighbor. Try it . . . you may like it! LOL

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DM - Deflection

Deflection is a method of avoidance just like coupling your opponent to someone else's position. You do both in this poorly written post.

Just answer the question that I posed to you, if you dare.

Davids mom
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PTCO
Quote:

You believe the government does everything well?
2. You believe the government does most things well?
3. You believe it's funny to suggest that any government programs should be cut?
4. You believe that those that write and/or watch SNL are elite progressives that have no intelligent or rational argument for their philosophy so they attempt to demean and humiliate their opponents using tasteless "humor"
5. All of the above

NONE OF THE ABOVE. End of conversation. Good night.

PTC Observer
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DM - Wrong

questions, here they are again.

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 6:15pm

Now, you may say you are not a socialist but you are. You believe, based on your past posts, that it is government's role to transfer wealth from one group of individuals to another. This is based on majority rule. Is this correct or not correct?

I have in fact stated on many occasions on this board that the government should be significantly be downsized. That it should return to its intended purpose of protecting Life, Liberty, and Property. This is how the country should operate. The problem you have is not that I haven't given any solutions to the problems we have as a country, the problem is you don't like the solution. That is because you are a socialist. You actually believe that you have the right to take someone's property through the government by force of law. The law, if it protects our rights is justice, if the law is used to violate our rights by the majority or any other faction it is counter to justice. The law is justice only if it protects our rights.

Tell us dear lady how the government has the right to take someone's wealth and give it to someone else? What is the moral argument you have to defend this? Do you have this right, to take someone's property by force to give it to someone else? If you don't have this right, how can a group of people have this right? How can you elect someone to pass a law to do this? What gives them the right to pass such a law?

Still waiting.....