That's Racist!

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Davids mom
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PTCO -
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The problem you have is not that I haven't given any solutions to the problems we have as a country, the problem is you don't like the solution.

What is the solution? What and who would you 'downsize'? Please be specific. How would this downsizing improve our financial/security/employment - situation?

Quote:

Tell us dear lady how the government has the right to take someone's wealth and give it to someone else? What is the moral argument you have to defend this? Do you have this right, to take someone's property by force to give it to someone else? If you don't have this right, how can a group of people have this right? How can you elect someone to pass a law to do this? What gives them the right to pass such a law?

What property of yours has been taken by force by the 'government'? (Imminent domain?) What do you consider property? After WWII, Americans sacrificed to help us recover from a war. There seems to be a feeling today that only the middle class should pay for a series of wars that have lasted for over 10 years. The 'American Way' is for all Americans to work together to achieve LIFE, LIBERTY, AND FREEDOM. Demonstrated socialism has not worked in Cuba or China. When Americans share the responsibility of LIFE, LIBERTY, AND FREEDOM - America progresses. Is this your idea - work hard, achieve success, and let your representatives figure out how you can keep your money without sharing your responsibility to provide for the running of 'government'? No one has said that our our past leaders have been responsible with our finances - but we have allowed this to happen by TRUSTING THE UNTRUSTWORTHY . No political party or ideology has solved this issue of TRUST between leadership and citizens. Is your representative 'beholden' to you or to the corporations/king makers who pay for their elections. We are a country with a hugh deficit - yet we spend BILLIONS on our election process. Is there something wrong with this picture? We have 'poor' in this country who are living like those in Third World countries. Is this what America is about? We have too large a segment of our citizens slipping out of 'middle class' - and hearing that the 'safety nets' are about to be cut. We hear a lot about cutting - but very little about strategies for obtaining more revenue in order to balance our budget. We continue to send jobs out of the country - while watching our unemployed struggle to continue 'life ' as usual. Bush I tried the 'lights of volunteers' - but then came Bush II who IMO squandered a surplus and American lives on a war that cost this country then and now. The cheating of the American people is now coming to light. We are truly blind if we think that this lack of integrity has just started in the last 20 years. BUT - if we take our country back by replacing leadership - and then return to 'let them take care of our business' with no oversight - we deserve what we get - government by king pins and corporations. American citizens are pawns in their game. Money is running the election - but the power of the vote trumps the dollar if we have more than 60% of eligible voters VOTE. Good night - rest well. We will never agree - so be it.

PTC Observer
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DM - Was

Was there an answer to my question(s) in there someplace?

I think I missed it.

Here let's do it this way.

1. Do you (DM) have the right to take someone's property by force for the purpose of giving that property to someone else that you think deserves it more? Y/N
2. If no, then can you elect someone to do it for you? Y/N
3. If yes, then explain how you can transfer a nonexistent right to someone else?
4. What is the moral argument?

If you answer, then we may be able to have a discussion on our opposing positions and the rationale for each. One is based on freedom and the other is based on force.

Sleep well too, with a clear conscience. ;-)

S. Lindsey
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DM the origin of debt

DM where was the origin of debt created?

If person A owes person B then where was the origin of debt created for person A?

Dm you are a socialist.. note the little s. You probably think you are just a good citizen. Our Educational system (which you were a part of) has so bastardized the true meaning of Capitalism, Socialism and Communism that it is all homogeneous.

The Philosophy most certainly is not but that doesn't stop those that believe little (s) socialism and Capitalism should and can co-exist.
They cannot DM.

Capitalism depends on a free Society that is free to control their own futures and are responsible for their successes and their failure.

Little (s) socialism believes that (G)overnment dictates freedoms aka rights and that (G)overnment controls certain businesses with an overall purpose of re-distribution of others people property i.e. money.

You have espoused these beliefs over and over ipso facto you are indeed a socialist.

Joe Kawfi
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Cuba and Socialism

Even Cuba has finally figured out that socialism doesn't work.

Cautious capitalism emerging in Cuba

While the Failure in Chief Obama is trying to move the U.S. toward it. You know, to "spread the wealth" and all. (His words, not mine)

Davids mom
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Lindsey
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DM where was the origin of debt created?

Among humans? When the first person 'borrowed'.

In the new world? Read your history. Integrity in borrowing. . . when the borrower pays back what was borrowed. Bartering was a good way to maintain integrity among humankind..

Socialist - you can't denigrate me with your definition. I know who and what I am. I, as an individual, am no threat to you and yours - but you realize that there is more of me than you care to deal with, That's your problem, not mine.

You and PTCO can continue to answer questions with questions - I'm through. Have a great day!

kcchiefandy
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That's why, DM...

"you realize that there is more of me than you care to deal with, That's your problem, not mine."

We have a military to support & defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC. If they need to be dealt with, Lindsey or PTCO don't need to do so; the US military will. Let us hope those bent on the destruction of that document and the freedoms it holds for us wisely approach their actions...

Davids mom
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Oops

.

Davids mom
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KC

. . . And assume their responsibility to support that military that protects all of us from enemies. Our
taxes pay for that protection. Right ? IMO, our taxes supported an ill-advised war against the wrong enemy for the wrong reason. Taxes misused; American lives lost , those who launched 911, not dealt with until the capture of Osama Bin Laden. If two wars ran us into debt, then we are all going go have to tighten our belts to get out of this mess - NOT JUST THE MIDDLE CLASS.

kcchiefandy
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Not really my point, DM...

...but do agree there's a huge body of the 50% non-taxpaying citizens that need to get with the program, get some personal responsibility, and make themselves productive members of our society. Now the many Mexicans are realizing the free lunch is over and returning to their legal home (recent report states less are invading and more are going back, voluntarily even!), there should be more employment opportunities to get them started.

Davids mom
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KC ANDY
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there should be more employment opportunities to get them started.

And I do see more Americans working for landscape companies in Fayette County - but I bet they pay at least minimum wage.

Davids mom
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KC

Aren't we all part of the group that pays for our military?

S. Lindsey
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DM how is it by being human places me in debt

to another?

Isn't our very founding as a Nation built upon personal responsibility?
A contract between two or more people in a legal debt. How is it a debt can be occurred by the power of Government to another where no contract exist?

If we are responsible for our own well being where then did the indebtedness come into play?

DM neither I nor PTCO is trying to insult you. At least for me, I can't speak for anyone else, am trying to understand where your ideas and beliefs spring from.

Little (s) socialism is without a doubt being played out in our Government and in our Educational system.

Any person who wants Government to control business, distribute money and regulate industry is by definition a socialist.

Socialism- defined..
a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
2.procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.
3.(in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

DM you have espoused this belief multiple times...Again I am not trying to insult you just trying to understand you and like PTCO probe your knowledge on the Constitution and if you believe the Constitution gives Government the right to do these acts?

Davids mom
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Lindsey
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DM how is it by being human places me in debt
to another?

If you borrow - you are in debt. (At least in the 'human' kingdom.)

KC seems to think I am an enemy of our country, Our first arrivals from other shores - how did they govern themselves? I didn't want to ask another question - but your arguments appear to be based on a slanted view of the beginnings of our country.

Quote:

advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

Our founding fathers - after amassing great wealth, saw that community control (as defined in your definition of socialism) would not continue to work - and developed the Constitution that encouraged individual work ethics - along with a sense of responsibility to the community as a whole. Do you disagree with this? DARN! I feel it is a waste of time having this discussion with you and PTCO - for you are convinced that I am wrong in whatever I share - and you are right. However - I do it for those who may just take the time to do their own research and make up their own minds about the history of our country. . . and its development. It is amazing that such patriots are bent on pointing out our flaws - without acknowledging the growth that we have achieved since our founding.

it is also interesting what contributors have decided to wait until the verdict in the Zimmerman trial is rendered - as opposed to those who continually bring up incidents of violence that can lead to community violence/black against white.

Today, the Teacher of the Year and the Teacher of the Year from different states were honored at the White House.Public education - and those who teach in public schools are to be praised. Their service does not take away from the service of teachers in private education or those who home school. Fayette County public school system is successful because of parental and community support. The Teacher of the Year congratulated all teachers who have a passion for the job; create interesting lessons for all of their students; believe that every individual child has something to offer - and works hard to insure that that child is made aware of what he/she is good at - and helps that chid develop that strength.

It is apparent to me that you and PTCO have a very slanted view of our history - and the history of the implementation/interpretation of our Constitution. Until it is clarified what 'property' you are talking about - there is no need to continue this conversation. No one has taken my hard earned property/money from me and given it to someone else. I agree to pay taxes to accomplish those community activities that I cannot fund for myself. I strongly feel that the elected leaders have not acted responsibly in allocating those funds - but they were not stolen from me - just misused! If the Tea Party had remained true to principle - they would have had more support. But they tried to manipulate the citizens by adding other issues that they misread as being universally important to all citizens - and frankly their position has been insulting to many. Anyway - its a long time until November. I agree with G35Dude. It is difficult to have a logical discussion with someone whose logic is questionable. We have a Supreme Court to interpret our Constitution - and we know that they have not always made the right decision for all of the citizens in this country. . . .but we grow; meet our challenges and our responsibilities. We are in a financial mess now - and only by working together AND SACRIFICING will we retain our independence. We have to pay our debts; balance our budget; and find revenue to continue to run our country.

Claiming that we can't get out of this mess - yet spending BILLIONS on an election process?????????

grizz
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S.Lindsey

Did you really expect to receive a valid or somewhat coherent response? If so, you asked the wrong "person".

Meanwhile, the bottom 50% of income earners pay zero Federal income tax and make NO SACRIFICE or contribution to the infrastructure of the United States.

Davids mom
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The Bear
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Meanwhile, the bottom 50% of income earners pay zero Federal income tax and make NO SACRIFICE or contribution to the infrastructure of the United States.

Read the federal Tax Charts: The bottom 50% don't earn enough to pay federal taxes. Some pay state taxes.

kcchiefandy
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Not an enemy, DM...

...but those domestic enemies who would do - and have done - acts to usurp the established gov't of the US (and some states) historically have come from groups other than those espousing the benefits of Capitalism. There are numerous examples but I'll not delve into the long list here. Historically there have certainly been some capitalist that abused the working class, etc...but I'd challange you to put forth anywhere/any system that didn't have its share of abuses; the difference is we have the freedom to redress the concerns, where many historically & worldwide, have not. From the 1st Amendment:

"to Petition the Government for a Redress of Grievances” means the People, with evidence that the government is abusing its constitutionally limited power, have the Right to submit a Petition for a Redress (remedy) of the constitutional wrongdoing, that government has an obligation to honestly respond to the People’s Petition and, should the government ignore the People, the People have the Right to enforce the Right of Petition by retaining their money until their grievances are Redressed."

Davids mom
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K C

Yep!

S. Lindsey
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DM don't be intentionally obtuse I know you are not.

Contractual debt is totally different then Social debt. My question to you which again you danced around is where does the Government get it's authority to re-distribute wealth?

If person A owes person B what product or service is person B providing person A for them to be in debt to? Borrowing as you suggest does not obligate everyone other then the parties involved...Period.

Government as you suggest forces Person A to pay for Person B (indebtedness) by forcing Person A to pay taxes for the purpose of re-distribution to Person B. Where does Government have that authority?

Like PTCO keeps asking you... if you cannot forcibly take from Person A to give to Person B how then how can you abdicate a non-existent authority to an elected individual to do so on Person B's behalf?

The levying of taxes against this Country's citizens is perfectly legal...UNTIL... the taking of property/money is used for social re-engineering based on ones political ideology.

DM the issue is really simple. Property is defined as ownership in a thing. That "thing" is anything of personal wealth including money. The Constitution is quiet clear on this. There is no interpretative question here DM no matter what you have "learned" to the contrary. Until you can show me where I am wrong then by disagreeing you have as yet to prove your argument.

DM all I am asking you to do is clarify your belief that Government under the powers given to it in the 18 enumerated powers in the Constitution has the authority to take from one class of citizens FOR THE PURPOSE of re-distribution to another class of citizens.

WHERE IS THE ORIGIN OF DEBT?

PTC Observer
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DM - Denigrate?

“Socialist - you can't denigrate me with your definition. I know who and what I am. I, as an individual, am no threat to you and yours - but you realize that there is more of me than you care to deal with, That's your problem, not mine.”

I am not “denigrating” you DM. I am defining your philosophical position. Based on your many posts, you have defined yourself as a socialist. You can call yourself a “moderate Democratic” if you wish, but your ideas are those of a socialist.

You didn't answer the questions because it will expose your nature but it is your nature that we need to understand. I am attempting to understand your ideas and why you believe such things.

So, I surmise that you do believe you have the right to take other people’s property by force and give that property to others based on your judgment of their need. That you believe that people (you) can elect people to do this for them (you).

So given this, you cast yourself as a particular sort of socialist a “ re-distributive socialist”. This brand of socialist assigns income and wealth using force/law to non-producers regardless of their achievements or abilities. Unlike Mr. Obama, I don’t believe that your goal is to eradicate income differences but you favor the “disadvantaged” and want to force the use of other people’s money to help them. Your intent is not to destroy wealth creation but to siphon it using immoral but legal means. You justify this with the idea that the "end justifies the means". The "means" in this case is the use of law and government power. The "end" is helping others at the expense of someone else.

Do you think this characterization of pseudo-philanthropy is a fair one?

Can you articulate the moral argument for your position?

Since you think that calling you a socialist is “denigrating” and this is not my intent, you can call yourself anything you wish, but it’s important to a dialog to understand the other side of the argument. That’s my only purpose in asking you questions. I have attempted to answer yours but naturally given your philosophy you don't like my answers.

Well I guess that sums everything up.

If you don’t want to make an argument to support your position then don’t. Simply tell me that you don’t want to do this. I will respect that. I won’t understand it but I will respect it. However, do expect me to point out the flaws that I see in this kind of thinking, just as I expect you to point out any flaws you see in mine.

Have a good evening.

Davids mom
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PTCO

Let's just say I don't understand your side of the argument - since you too have a problem answering my questions.

Quote:

I agree to pay taxes to accomplish those community activities that I cannot fund for myself. I strongly feel that the elected leaders have not acted responsibly in allocating those funds - but they were not stolen from me - just misused!

PTC Observer
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OK - DM

Understanding comes from dialog, or is it you understand but don't want to admit it?

So, given your quote from above, why would you want to give those irresponsible "leaders" your money to misuse in the first place? Why can't you "allocate" those funds for yourself? Give it to the charity of your choice, why use the government? They will only misuse it, for their benefit not anyone else.

It seems that most of the money we "give" to government is "misused".

Davids mom
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PTCO - YOU MISSED IT!

.

kcchiefandy
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Yet, DM...

...you support a party (and yes, both aren't innocent in this!) that adamantly opposes a balanced budget amendment, or any budget at all, it seems. And "strategies for obtaining more revenue in order to balance our budget"?!? IT'S CALLED CUTTING THE BUDGET! MORE revenue; yeah, that's what we need...fueling the spending fools w/ more...

BTW, do you have a specific example of "'poor' in this country who are living like those in Third World countries."? And by that I mean no access to medical care, or little-to-no food or shelter?

Davids mom
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KC
Quote:

BTW, do you have a specific example of "'poor' in this country who are living like those in Third World countries."? And by that I mean no access to medical care, or little-to-no food or shelter?

Are you serious? Look under any bridge in any urban area. Drive down some country roads in any state - but especially here in the south. Ask any social worker. Some of these humans used to receive institutional care, but in California they were released and supposedly taken care of in private homes. Greedy practices and poor monitoring paid the home owners , and the people chose to live on the street. ( Most had mental problems). There aren't enough social workers, charity volunteers to assist these folks to fill out the paper work in order for them to receive assistance. Many, for generations, aren't even aware of the help that they should be receiving. I saw many in Tennessee. In Georgia, you don't have to drive too far from PTC. Ask the DFAC personnel as they remove neglected children from homes that have no food.
Check out those who are living in their cars for the past 5 months. They are the lucky ones! No able body American should be living like this - but too many have gone through their savings, don't have family or community help, and about to run out of unemployment check qualification. ( These are folks with education and a sound mind). NO American should be in this situation.

Ask any successful business person - you have to have revenue in order to run a business. If the revenue is misused, the business, government fails. What does the US produce today? We almost let the auto industry fail. I don't pretend to fully understand how to get us out of this mess - but our partisan representatives evidently don't either

KC. How co you plan any budget without an 'income' column?

grizz
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Just as we expected

No specific examples.

Go look under any bridge! Go drive down country roads!

What a joke.

kcchiefandy
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Well, DM...

...those are fine examples, but I challenge you to poll those 'bridge-dwellers', et al and the state/city programs available to them that THEY choose NOT to use/utilize. Certainly there are sad cases but I doubt they are every single soul sleeping under a bridge. Neglected children? EXACTLY! And many from homes/parent who never learned responsibility and always have/had the gov't to take care of their everything. I would bet you 100-to-1 that 80% of those 'without food' will have plenty of drugs, smokes, and booze available. And yes, there are many good folk out of work due to this economy; do they not have food or shelter, also? 'They live in their cars'! Ok, again, at least give us the specifics of who/what you saw, and the specifics of your cases, not just generalizations of 'them' and 'those'.

Any successful business person will tell you if you don't have revenue you cut back on inventory, staff, etc...THEY DON'T JUST KEEP SPENDING! You act as though the U.S. Treasury is taking in NOTHING; B.S. - we have plenty of money for the needs of this country; just too many entitlements & erroneous spending to meet those extravagant outlays. Yet, our Congress & Administration trade our future for votes.

It's time for those who've made grave misjudgements and poor choices in their lives to accept that responsibility and do what they must to survive (LEGALLY!) and STOP depending on the government to take care of them. The exodus of Mexicans leave plenty of employment opportunities.

Davids mom
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KC ANDY

I see your point - and that is exactly why I say our funds have been misused by the current government (the past 20 years) due to lack of meaningful oversight. No one should have to 'poll' to find reality. There are criteria for receiving government assistance - not being monitored. The Ryan Budget Plan - cuts programs without any criteria other than it 'costs too much and is poorly monitored'. WELL - GET OFF THE BIG CORPORATION BAND WAGON - and get in there and stop the obvious corruption; mismanagement, and wasteful spending so that our tax dollars can actually help Americans who are needing a helping hand. Our elected representatives in Washington who are beholden to King Makers and Corporations are unwilling (not unable) to do this. They are beholden to the King Makers - and not the American people. I fought for - and won - revamping many welfare criteria that was simply putting families on welfare for generation with absolutely no hope for getting out of their situation.
Welfare to work is working - but will slip right back into a failing program if it is not monitored!

Quote:

Any successful business person will tell you if you don't have revenue you cut back on inventory, staff, etc...THEY DON'T JUST KEEP SPENDING!

This is why the Tea Party and Republicans can't get enthusiastic about Romney. As a successful business man, he knows that if your business is not bringing in revenue - and you don't analyze and see why your business is not being supported; to simply cut inventory, staff, etc. puts you out of business.

Quote:

we have plenty of money for the needs of this country; just too many entitlements & erroneous spending to meet those extravagant outlays. Yet, our Congress & Administration trade our future for votes.

Evidently there are those in this country who can afford to contribute large sums of money to election campaigns but want to retain tax cuts. Misuse of funds; corruption; have made 'entitlements' appear extravagant. IMO, the GSA scandal is just the tip of the iceberg. If your assumption is correct - that this country has plenty of money - why in the Sam Hill are we in BIG DEBT to a communist country? Politics? KC - I'm listening to Romney and Obama for the answers to my questions. The tired rhetoric of 'social' debt is just a code word for people like Lindsey. Ryans Budget Plan has been scrutinized by many - and doesn't meet the American (and evidently Catholic) criteria for how Americans should treat one another in a majority Christian nation. As always, in American policies - we go to extremes before we reach a balance in our quest for the American 'way'. The corruption has been discovered; the misuse of funds has been made public - and this is not the first time. WHAT ACTION HAS CONGRESS TAKEN TO CORRECT THIS? Even after the Tea Party's 'win' - NOTHING. And this may continue as long as our state representatives fix our pot holes; visit out political gatherings; and voice our concerns - with little or no legislative action - because their financial support comes from the King Makers - and corporations who pay for their election - not the 40% of eligible voters who actually vote.

About specificity regarding the pointing out the 'poor'. I didn't 'see' where Fayetteville had Section 8 housing. A blogger directed me to the area - and I went to see for myself. I work with a group who services those who are 'under bridges', and in urban areas - in tunnels; living in cars; etc. In the past, those that I encountered were mentally unstable - but today there are educated persons with sound minds living in terrible conditions. KC - they have lost their homes, have run out of unemployment benefits - and lost their pride and refuse to fill out applications again. They are on the streets - eating church supplied meals, etc. Yes KC - there are some in Fayette County. I would not advise anyone to just ride around an urban area today without the protection of being with a service agency - but you really don't have to go too far from PTC to see some pretty poor living conditions very near to and in Fayette County. Take a ride.

S. Lindsey
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Nope no code words here DM

and no answers to my questions either it would appear.

DM you want to help the "poor"? Stop wasteful Government spending..Stop Government programs that is not needed.

Like the Department of Education that does not educate anyone.
Like the Department of Energy that produces not one kilowatt.
Like the Department of Labor which does not create one job.
Like the Department of Urban Development that builds no houses... and on and on and on ad nauseam.

We do not have a taxation problem we have a spending one and until we realize this simple fact we will just keep spending into oblivion and when it all comes crashing down and it must DM then we can re-boot the system and start over.

We can not, like some here believe, keep spending forever with no consequences. An end is coming DM as surely as you don't know what the origin of debt truly is...

btw- I don't like the Ryan plan either.. It is too weak and does not balance the budget for 20 years..

Rand Paul's plan now there is a plan I can sink my teeth into.

kcchiefandy
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It does sound sad, DM...

...and is, in many cases. Did you ask them if they looked elsewhere other than the ATL area? Did you ask if they were willing to take ANYTHING for work? Did you ask what field they were in, or what their skills were? Did you ask if they overextended themselves and were foreclosed on? These are just a few questions one must ask to avoid generalizing their plight as a whole. When you know these things, it just might lead to less of your 'poor, poor, pitiful people' tagline.

Here's some generalizations from my side of the discussion:
1. Many are people with little or no skills, who ill-prepared themselves for life (for whatever reason), and were the most expendable when cuts began.
2. Many have criminal backgrounds that made/make employment difficult (we'll leave drug abuse histories out of the mix)
3. Many won't take jobs 'beneath' them; i.e. jobs that Mexicans flock here for.
4. Many refuse to leave the ATL area and move to areas with better employment opportunities (there's a oil rush in North Dakota and tons of jobs there).
5. Many expect the government to take care of them no matter what, and await for them (even after expiration of previous benefits).

Now, those are my generalizations of the situation. Sounds a lot like yours, just the other side of the coin. Btw, there are winners & losers in every society; always has been, always will be. Trying to legislate this out of the human condition is futile. Thank God people such as you exist with the means and time to spend countless hours of your days, now, attending to them. We need more faith-based initiatives to help ease their plight and assist them back to the path of productivity.

Davids mom
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KC ANDY

Good morning! There are many who are trying to assist those who genuinely need help - and trying hard to get people to understand that to pull the safety net in this economy would be disastrous. OVERSIGHT and meaningful MONITORING of current programs would help stop the corruption.

For the poor shall never cease out of the land, therefore I commend thee saying, Thou shall open thine hand wide unto they brother, to thy poor, and to thy needy, in thy land. Deut. 15:11

KC, in reality, most Americans are just 5 months or less from being 'poor' - if their current income for some reason ceases. (There but for the grace of God go I) In reading the comments - no matter what ideology a person follows, all seem to agree that monitoring is needed in order to make sure the programs (federal, state, or private) are benefitting those who truly need help.

Quote:

.and is, in many cases. Did you ask them if they looked elsewhere other than the ATL area?

I haven't seen one 'job program event' throughout the country that didn't have lines of people standing with resumes in hand looking for work. Our corporations/King Makers continue to send 'jobs' overseas - because we as investors want to make MONEY -- and foreign workers work for under minimum wage. Sad indeed.

kcchiefandy
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True, DM...

...many, many are, and have always been, close to being the American version of 'poor'. The 'safety net' has been well worn the last few years, but is being mended. As long as we don't hostage our future by overburdening the nation with debt, we can work through this. The globalization of our products and markets is truly a testament to how the unions forced corporations to seek cheaper labor, and now their sons & daughters get to watch those jobs go away due to ridiculous demands (in general) for the skills that they held. Not sad, just business. You don't want to be hostage to the whims of corporate enterprise? Get a skill; make yourself valuable. The alternative is what you see. Those overseas jobs are for the low-skilled, but even 'they' are getting better and making themselves more valuable to these businesses.

Again, who are in 'the lines', what are their skills, where are they looking, are they willing to do something else? Generalizations mean little.

As for your biblical quote, I agree. The less taxes we pay the more we can give. It's been proven (I'd Google, but it's out there, I've seen it) that charitable giving significantly decreases when taxes go up; people just can't afford it. Stop the government monster gobbling our tax dollars and let's help each other.

Davids mom
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KC ANDY

I think we're on the same page - I just want to see us demand that the 'government' monitor our 'safety nets' . . . not yank them out from under those who really need the net = mend it. The writing of a check or giving a larger part of our income is not what 'do unto others as you would have them do unto you' means. IMO. One doesn't have to go far or spend a lot of time and money to 'help' his neighbor. My take on our early history (Pilgrims) is that they depended on one another in order to survive. I don't see Americans today - other than our military - depending on one another to survive. I think there are those who see the 'independence' and 'personal responsibility' thing as a way to not feel responsible to the 'do unto other' thingl Anyway - just sharing. As for the 'taxes' thing. I think the state of our current economy shows that those 'cuts' went into savings accounts or maintaing a life style that cost more (today) rather than 'spend, spend, spend,
Not a bad budgeting move for individuals - but didn't help the national economy. LOL!

Quote:

jobs are for the low-skilled

KC - we have low skilled workers here! Corporations went overseas because foreign workers are cheaper/bigger profit for business - right?

kcchiefandy
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"we have low skilled workers

"we have low skilled workers here! Corporations went overseas because foreign workers are cheaper/bigger profit for business - right?" - Yes; that's what businesses do to survive, grow, and make a profit. Unless there is an incentive to bring those low-skilled jobs back, they'll stay overseas, and they'll continue to sell their wares there, too. We can also attract foreign companies to come here and provides jobs, IF our laborers have the sufficient skills AND don't price themselves out of the labor market.

Your answer is to legislate that American corporations MUST keep 'X' amount of low-skilled jobs here? Or they can only make 'X' amount of profits? I don't believe that will ever happen. I still believe there are plenty of low-skill jobs out there - that's why Mexicans flocked here; are these American workers willing to relocate and take these jobs? I doubt it.

Davids mom
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KC

Because so many citizens don't vote - we don't have the leverage to fight the King Makers and the corporations . The Tea Party tried - but they haven't been able to do anything but thwart Obama. I like your answer - but without leverage, I agree - not about to happen.

Few Americans will work for less than minimum wage.

Now we're in this political thing with China - and we owe them the company store! What a mess! It will be interesting to see how this is handled!

kcchiefandy
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I don't know, DM...

...how, or if ever, the corporate strength is, or will, be usurped - or if it should be. They're not all necessarily 'evil'; many, if not most, provide excellent opportunities & jobs for thousands, perhaps millions, of Americans. I realize working below minimum wage is just wrong, but the Mexicans at Home Depot demands at least $10 per hour...

Davids mom
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KC

The Mexicans at Home Depot?

You mean HD doesn't have to verify legality? It was the illegals who accepted below minimum wage -I think. Not all Mexicans are illegal - in fact many are Americans with a large voting block.

kcchiefandy
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DM...

...I am specifically referring to those Hispanic workers (I'm SURE they're all legal, but funny, when police pull up they disappear!) who stand on the street nearby HD's and offer their services to local contractors, home owners, etc...who need a hand (the Forest Park HD is a good example; just off 285, or the Gainesville HD); I've had friends hire a few over the years and their 'jumping-in-the-truck' rate was $10/hr.

Davids mom
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KC

Oh - OK. If your friends paid the ten - I guess the workers learned the American way- charge what the market can bear. LOL! I used to translate for the Hispanics who worked for some gardening services. Six or seven years ago, they were working for below minimum wage - and I don't see them around much anymore. Some were Mexican, some from El Salvador, a few from Guatemala. Many, many have left. The gardeners that I see today are white or black Americans - and some Koreans. Landscaping/gardening is a good business.

Relatives are visiting, and I won't be online much. Enjoyed the conversation.

kcchiefandy
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Have a nice visit, DM...

...and by 'Mexicans' I did mean those from Central America who are here illegally; I should have not lumped them together.

Davids mom
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Oops

.

Davids mom
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Oops

.

Joe Kawfi
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That's Racist!

Justice for Trayvon has been served....

Man Beaten By Mob, In Critical Condition

"It was the scariest thing I have ever witnessed." Parker says 20 people, all African American, attacked her brother on the front porch of his home, using "brass buckles, paint cans and anything they could get their hands on."

As the attackers walked away, leaving Owen bleeding on the ground, Parker says one of them said "Now thats justice for Trayvon."

Jesse Jackson, Al "Tawana Brawley" Sharpton and the rest of the race pimps that incited this type of violence could not be reached for comment.

maximus
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Mob of racist punks

The good thing about a mob like this is that it gives you multiple targets in one convenient location.

Joe Kawfi
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That's Racist!

House Dems trained to make race the issue

The prepared content of a Tuesday presentation to the House Democratic Caucus and staff indicates that Democrats will seek to portray apparently neutral free-market rhetoric as being charged with racial bias, conscious or unconscious.

S. Lindsey
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Throw out the Race card every chance they get

don't know why because 95% of Blacks will follow in lockstep and vote for Obama, even though they have suffered worse under his "leadership"(sic).

Sort of like the Prostitute that claims rape every time she doesn't get paid... The charge will just get ignored. (Modern day Boy cries Wolf).

Actually this could backfire on them... Many "White" Independents and Hispanic voters will see this as a political ploy using one sub-set of minorities for simply a political gain.

The charge of racism has been thrown out there so much by the race baiters inc. that no one listens or cares. Incidents of real racism, where they do occur, simply are ignored because everyone is so used to "hearing" the charge even though facts never back up the complaint. We have a resident race baiter here that throws out the charge every time they lose an argument thinking that somehow wins the argument. Oh they never offer proof of it. Just because you argue against their ideas is enough proof that you are. One of the reasons why no one listens.

grizz
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*

*

Joe Kawfi
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That's Racist!

Note the "Trayvon Martin signature thug hoodie" worn by the cowardly culprits.

U.S. Army soldier brutally beaten in South Tampa

The first, tremendous sucker punch laid the victim onto the ground. The other two men joined in, punching and kicking the soldier.

How proud the parents and teachers of these thugs must be!

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