President Obama, Democrats must stop demonizing success

Terry Garlock's picture

It is perhaps ironic that Steve Jobs, cofounder of Apple Inc., died last week at the same time anti-capitalist signs and chants were televised from the leftist protests called “Occupy Wall Street.” The demonstrators demanded jobs and railed against corporations, testimony to their own ignorance of where their jobs and the products they use come from.

To paraphrase some demonstrators’ sentiments, can’t we all just share our country’s bounty instead of some getting rich while others remain stuck in poverty?

Of course that implies we should be a collective society even though individualism is the founding principle of America. Those who truly believe in collectivism should visit Cuba or study the history of Jamestown four hundred years ago. Besides, the country’s bounty is not static, it multiplies in a growing economy.

One interviewed demonstrator spokeswoman insisted corporations should not be receiving so much money unless they use it to create jobs instead of enriching themselves, suggesting there must be a nanny in the sky passing out money, never mind the misunderstanding of how jobs are made.

I suppose the root problem is we have done a miserable job teaching to recent generations the virtue of capitalism and how it works, and if uneducated you have to overcome the tug of your heart and use your head to come to the right conclusion.

Steve Jobs was the demonstrators’ fellow liberal, but as a capitalist he was a titan, leaving huge footprints. I remember very well when he and his partner, Steve Wozniak, started what would become the personal computer revolution, creating in their garage the first product that would fulfill their dreams of making tons of money and in the process they changed the world. You and I were the beneficiaries of the tidal wave of products that followed and spread worldwide.

In more recent years Jobs and Apple have given us the iPod, iPad, touch phones and many other products. While Jobs and his partner became wealthy beyond your wildest dream, I wonder how many thousands of people had a job, or a career, not only at Apple, but in the tens of thousands of other companies that jumped into the ocean of opportunity created by these two men.

By their continued vision, these entrepreneurs created not just a successful product, they created an industry that kicked in the afterburner of human productivity.

What an epitaph – Steve Jobs made the world a better place!

And he did it all in the pursuit of more-more-more money. Call it greed if you like, but that is our capitalist system, harnessing the self-interest of each individual to motivate imagination, innovation and hard work.

New businesses are started when someone has a dream, the desire to take a risk and try to make a product or deliver a service, something that works so well it becomes profitable. Most new business ventures fail, but if it succeeds and blossoms, that new business owner will have to hire people to help get the job done as he hopes to make tons of money.

That, of course, is how jobs are created in America, no matter what the politicians say.

In many cases the entrepreneur needs funding (capital), so venture capitalists bring investors to the table to buy a piece of the business, to become shareholders in a corporation, each one hoping to make an obscenely handsome profit. Everyone who owns a 401k, IRA or pension is likely one of these investors.

If the business succeeds and grows very large, eventually it will need highly skilled executives to guide and execute the business strategy, to select, manage and motivate employees.

The problem is the pool of the best among these executives is small, and the ones desired are already employed elsewhere. So recruiters specializing in executive search find the right people and entice them with piles of money in salary and bonuses that would make Jed Clampett blush, and golden parachute packages that guarantee them many millions even if they are fired. These executives are the ones the public loves to despise, having no understanding of why they are paid so much.

There is much risk in a new business. Along the capitalist highway are littered bone-piles of failed and dead ideas. We know what motivates entrepreneurs to take the risk trying to make their visions come true – the pursuit of wealth – and investors buy shares of corporations for the same reason, weighing the risk of loss against the profit potential.

Visions, dreams, taking a risk of terrible loss in hopes of making lots of money, that is the American economic engine, a competitive process that has turned on the lights of the world, raised transportation and communication and entertainment to an extraordinary level, made our lives more comfortable in a thousand ways. And all this has happened as a by-product of people pursuing their own self-interest.

We need regulation to set boundaries for corporate behavior, but there is a delicate balance to strike. Anything that discourages these entrepreneurs and investors from taking those risks should be of grave concern to us, because if they put their visions on hold, if they withhold their investable capital to keep it safe on the sideline, America’s economic engine will slow down, just as it has in recent years. What are those things that put the brakes on our capitalist system?

• More and more regulation that slows productivity and increases costs

• Higher taxes

• Uncertainty in Washington, D.C., about more taxes and regulation

• Class warfare that demonizes success

• Anti-business government rhetoric

• Government intervention into industry, like the shutdown of oil drilling in the Gulf of Mexico.

Sound familiar? At least the Obama Administration is consistent – they do ALL the wrong things! This is why President Obama preaching about job creation is a farce of the highest order.

His administration is the most anti-business of any in my lifetime, creating mountains of new regulation and relentlessly trying to raise taxes on the high-income people who invest and create jobs.

Is it any wonder investors are keeping their capital on the sideline? Is it any wonder entrepreneurs have put their dreams on hold until the fog of uncertainty lifts? And with each postponed and withheld business move, jobs that would have been created ... are not.

All the stimulus spending in the world won’t break the jobs creation logjam. The dam will break only when this administration is gone, when the uncertainty is lifted in a more business-friendly environment.

It’s easy to demonize corporations, especially when our government is using our money to bail out banks, insurance companies, auto companies and state employee payrolls. It’s easy to demonize wealthy executives while we are paid so little by comparison. It’s easy to go too far with regulation and taxes that induce American companies to move jobs overseas.

It’s easy for President Obama to blame his predecessor, to blame Wall Street for causing our economic mess when in reality the cause was arguably decades-long liberal government policies requiring banks to lend to unqualified borrowers.

It’s easy for “Occupy Wall Street” demonstrators to forget that Wall Street is now Main Street where all of us are investors and should hope for entrepreneurs to succeed.

It’s easy for the President to point the finger of blame at high-income people demanding they pay more taxes even while Washington fails to eliminate duplicate, wasteful and unnecessary spending, even while his own administration has set new records in spending, even while politicians fail to tackle the unsustainable entitlement programs they have used to buy our votes.

The people marching in the streets demanding jobs might be enlightened if they give some thought to what President John F. Kennedy said about lowering taxes in order to promote business expansion, “A rising tide lifts all boats.”

It is that simple. Unleash entrepreneurs and investors, and the job creation machine goes to work.

This president working on jobs stimulus programs is the very definition of futility. There is only one thing President Obama can do to stimulate the creation of jobs.

Get the hell out of the way so we can celebrate success once again and stoke the fires of America’s business furnace.

[Terry Garlock of Peachtree City occasionally contributes a column to The Citizen. His email is terry@garlock1.com.]

Dondol
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Congress can only create Government Jobs

Remember that, its Industry that creates real jobs not the the government. And no amount of wrangling by the President can do that.

lion
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Real jobs

Government jobs are real jobs.

If you do not think so, tell that face-to-face to a policeman, fireman, teacher, or any local, state, or Federal employee who works to provide the services you enjoy but resent paying for.

And Government creates jobs in the private sector--just ask the many contractors who depend on Government spending.

"Industry" has not been very good at creating jobs lately. Why should the American people wait forever until the private sector on its own starts to create jobs?

Georgia Patriot
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Cain 43% Obama 41%

How could this possibly happen? The establishment R's and the lame street media have both told us Romney is the only one who can beat Obama!

DON"T BELIEVE THE PROPAGANDA, DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH!

The American people are waking up!
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/electi...
-GP

Davids mom
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GP

It's a long way to 2012 elections - and Rasmussen was wrong last time. He seems to poll conservatives - and Cain is doing well - and Obama ain't bad!

lion
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Garlock and worship of business types

One is certainly free to worship some unfettered capitalism and a free market god in the sky but there are so many problems with that viewpoint that I cannot comment on all of them here.

Very few businessmen are like Steve Jobs although they may want to think they are. Most businessmen are good, hard working people who hope to make a decent living and support their families. The operations of their gas stations, insurance companies, pizza places,etc.do not involve the kind of vision Jobs had.

And Jobs with all of this vision, moved the manufacturing of his products to China costing America thousands of jobs. No one mentions this when praising Jobs.

The USA was not foundeed on such a view of capitalism or the free market. How many times are capitalism or the free market mentioned in the U. S. Constitution? Answer: none. But "We the People" and the "General Welfare" are clearly there.

The founders were so unaware of the free market god in the sky that one of the first Acts of Congress was the Tariff Act of 1789. And revenues from tariffs were the chief source (80-95%) of revenue for the Federal Government for many decades. So much for that patriotic free market god.

kcchiefandy
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True, lion...

...but given the lack of support from states in our beginnings, such Acts were necessary to allow for the survival of our fledgling country. If not for the Federalist party, the 'US' would have probably evolved into little more than petty localities and influenced/usurped by more established elements such as France, Britain, or Spain. The need for a strong central gov't was clearly seen by GEN Washington, who had to beg, borrow, & steal to outfit an army because individual states refused to pony up $$$ to pay their share of the revolutionary cost. Hindsight judgements are just silly, in retrospect. Freedom to chase one's success was the goal & hope; the free market grew out of that mindset. Lais·sez-faire government was the guiding principle of the time after our installation on the world stage, and was the primary catalyst to the success of the USA. Check with your Comrades and ask how their system worked out...

Davids mom
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Success? Lion and KC
Quote:

Lais·sez-faire government was the guiding principle of the time after our installation on the world stage, and was the primary catalyst to the success of the USA

. . . AND WHERE ARE WE TODAY? The world's greed and lack of principle/principal has led us to this point - we need to base our economical principles on today's world. No one's system is doing okie-dokie -right?

kcchiefandy
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Laughable, DM...

...as economies cycle and issues arise, and are dealt with as needed. We, the USA, are still the economic kings of the world, even through this downturn. No other economy comes within half of our strength; the whiners & criers and doomsday prophets have all been seen before. We will get through this and be as strong, if not stronger, than before. What 'today's world economic principles' are you suggesting - share the wealth? Straight communism or socialism? Please enlighten us on what system is currently working better than capitalism? The 'world's greed'...pshhhsshh, pleeeasse.

lion
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Share the wealth

Share the wealth has been going on a long time in America--at least 30 years.

The middle class and poor have given of their meager wealth to the affluent and rich.

Incomes for the middle class have declined steadily. Corporations and their CEOs have prospered. And the comfortable have not paid their fair share. (I would like to take a group of Fayette County middle class citizens on a tour of Naples, FL for example and simply ask the question: Are these people taxed enough?)

Companies have eliminated traditional pensions and pocketed the corporate contributions to these pension funds.

Health insurance costs for workers have risen as employers have passed more of these costs to their employees.

Companies have demonized unions which have traditionally obtained benefits for middle class families.

Many middle class home owners, who were encouraged to follow the American dream (remember Bush's ownership society?}, are facing foreclosure or paying for a house which is worth far less than they paid for it.

Thirty years ago a middle class family could send their children to a state university with some modest sacrifice and their child working. Today those middle class students, if they can get into a state university or college, will graduate with a huge student loan debt. A debt probably owed to a private sector lender.

If you wonder what the Wall Street protests are about, think hard about how the economic climate for the average American has declined in recent decades.

Those simple minded retorts that middle class complaints are just socialism or communism are just stupid.

Someone had to finally stand up and say that things in America now are wrong. Maybe the Wall Street protesters have started something.

NUK_1
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Economic reality gets in the way again

OK, lion, let's go ahead and rescind all the Bush tax cuts. We want everyone to pay their "fair share"(whatever the hell that means) so the couples making 250K and above are going to take a hit and so will the 46% of citizens who pay ZERO. Sounds great except we'd still be left with a trillion and half deficit for this year alone! That 150billion in tax hikes does about nothing, though it might make the entitlement generation of freeloaders happy until they wake up one day and realized how ignorant they are and how nothing at all changed.

You want to actually see one nice way the lower classes do contribute to the "rich?" You want to get righteous on something like those stinky neo-hippie "occupiers" are doing? You mention college and huge debt, I think not in GA. You see, the poor and some of the middle class are nice enough to buy lotto tickets and created the HOPE scholarship! Even after recent cuts, it's paying 90% of tuition and it paid 100% for years. Wasn't it great for the poor and lower income types to agree and also to fervently support probably the most regressive tax on themselves possible? How about taxing the hell out of cigs, an activity enjoyed predominantly by the lower end of the economic spectrum, though some Presidents and Speakers like them too! If the 20-somethings want to go occupy something, try the lottery office or your state's Revenue Dept.

Cyclist
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It sounds like someone is buying into...

this gobbledygook that taxing the rich will solve all the problems.

kevink
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Cyclist. Since you bring up ' buying in' to gobbledygook....

No one is saying just raising taxes on the rich will fix everything. Don' t twist the 'balanced approach' argument. Facts are most of our tax rates have not been as low as they are now in our lifetimes. Yet we have the Taxed Enough Already movement.

Facts are the middle class is shrinking, the number of poor is growing, and the wealthiest 1% control 50% of American wealth. So what do middle class conservatives support?
Lowering the tax rate of the wealthy to 9%.
Imposing a consumption tax that will tax those currently not making enough to have an income tax.
Cutting govt spending and services that help the poorest among us and the elderly.

What are YOU buying into? What will 999 republican's vision mean for America?

Here's the funny thing: The ultra rich have had middle class conservatives in their pockets for so long you protect the rich types seem to not even notice the outcome of trickle down policies in the past. Herman Cain has worked with the Koch brothers since 2005, often being paid. But it's nowhere on his resume. Interesting. They have been anti union and anti regulation since the dawn of time, because their interests are profits above all. There is a Koch brothers chemical plant east of Enid we call the cloud factory due to the pollution. They want the FREEDOM to pollute more. They want to be regulated less. They have you as one of their many defenders. And that most likely does not seem odd to you at all, does it?
Protect the Koch brothers and their corporate candidate while attacking teachers' unions, govt programs that help the poorest among us, and healthcare for the least of these, to me, = gobbledygook.

NUK_1
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kevin: what are the proposals besides taxing the "rich?"
kevink wrote:

No one is saying just raising taxes on the rich will fix everything. Don' t twist the 'balanced approach' argument. Facts are most of our tax rates have not been as low as they are now in our lifetimes. Yet we have the Taxed Enough Already movement.

So where are any real proposals BESIDES raising taxes on "the rich?" That's all I see from Obama and his water-carriers Reid and Pelosi. Where are the other fixes for the balanced approach that are almost entirely due to spending?

Quote:

Facts are the middle class is shrinking, the number of poor is growing, and the wealthiest 1% control 50% of American wealth. So what do middle class conservatives support?
Lowering the tax rate of the wealthy to 9%.
Imposing a consumption tax that will tax those currently not making enough to have an income tax.

If you didn't have almost half the country paying zero federal income taxes and in many cases getting a tax rebate on income not earned, an idea like a 9% consumption tax would be considered asinine. It IS an asinine idea and I don't agree with the 9-9-9 "magic" at all or any of the ridiculous "Fair Tax" BS, but the fact that it's being considered should tell everyone about how the 46% who pay nothing in income tax aren't going to keep getting a free ride forever and have no skin in the game at all besides dutifully voting for whatever Dem runs every election cycle and being dependent on the government.

Quote:

Here's the funny thing: The ultra rich have had middle class conservatives in their pockets for so long you protect the rich types seem to not even notice the outcome of trickle down policies in the past. Herman Cain has worked with the Koch brothers since 2005, often being paid. But it's nowhere on his resume. Interesting. They have been anti union and anti regulation since the dawn of time, because their interests are profits above all. There is a Koch brothers chemical plant east of Enid we call the cloud factory due to the pollution. They want the FREEDOM to pollute more. They want to be regulated less. They have you as one of their many defenders. And that most likely does not seem odd to you at all, does it?
Protect the Koch brothers and their corporate candidate while attacking teachers' unions, govt programs that help the poorest among us, and healthcare for the least of these, to me, = gobbledygook.

That's because a lot of the middle class aspire to be not be dependent on the govt for everything and the hope they can rise above in "class." There is a whole culture of people who gave up a long time ago and could care less about doing anything besides cashing whatever check they get from the govt for doing nothing, but the fortunate part is that they don't seem to turn out and vote in large numbers or the USA would already be in a similar situation to a lot of European countries right now.

One reason labor unions make themselves an easy target for attack is beyond just their highly socialistic leanings, but the fact that they spend pretty much 100% on one political philosophy and party while their dues-paying membership breaks around 60-40%. Oh yeah, the fact that in a lot of cases people are forced to join is another area of discontent and pretty un-American to begin with.

We repeal all the tax cuts and get another 150bil a year or less if we only repeal those on the "rich." Now what? We're still a gigantic debtor nation running deficits with no plan to correct that whatsoever and fixed spending is rising every year to an unsustainable level. Boyles/Simpson? Totally ignored. What the gurus on the Obama blue ribbon committee proposed? That's being totally ignored also.

It's not all bad......a thoroughly bipartisan group in Congress FINALLY after a few years got a chance to vote and pass 3 key free trade agreements and did it! Hurray! The UAW took all kinds of heat from every other labor union but stood firm and showed they at least have their own membership's interests at heart unlike the other clueless goofs. And the totally unsustainable CLASS portion of Obamacare got thrown away as it should have before any health bill was even considered.

kevink
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Nuk, you leave me scratching my head.

You continue to push the narrative that adjusting the tax rates of families making a quarter million a year and up back to Reagan's rates; a 4.5% increase, is somehow soaking the rich.

Then you use the tried and true party line republican retort that almost half of Americans pay no federal tax (only true if you ignore payroll taxes, sales and gas taxes, etc.). Why don't they pay federal income tax, Nuke? It's because their taxable income is TOO LOW. It's down around $18,000 annually. Are you saying you want to RAISE taxes on those making less than $20 grand a year while protecting the Koch brother's historically low tax rate? Seriously?

And you ignore all of the ideas Obama received flak over, like trimming Medicare/Medicaid waste, to try to imply all the White House is pushing is a tax increase on the rich. Again, not true.

The economy is not in great shape. Why conservatives don't want ALL economic fixes on the table is beyond me. But Nuke, if we start raising taxes on those making under $20 grand a year, they're going to probably need subsidized healthcare for exposure and hunger-related illnesses. Off to the beach. Cheers

NUK_1
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kevin: scratching your head?

Try Head and Shoulders! :)

The median income in the US is over 46K for individuals and 67K for couples. I don't see how 46% of ALL citizens are some how at 18K in taxable income. You talk about historically low tax rates, but that also is true for those under 250K. That's why I have said over and over: repeal all the Bush tax cuts. Then, it becomes WHAT TO DO NOW?

Repealing all the tax cuts brings in 125bil a year or so. We are looking at a trillion and a half deficit this year. Funding the two wars right now is at about 120billion. OK, assuming we tax the people over 250K AND all wars end tomorrow, we are still facing a deficit of over ONE TRILLION dollars for one year. Where is the balanced approach to raising taxes without really cutting into spending? Simply taking away every dime of wealth the rich folks have would bring in 1.3 trillion, not even enough to even cover this year's deficit.

America has amassed a humongous amount of debt that is now about 190billion in interest alone this year. It's growing every year with no end in sight as well as our dependence on hoping investors buy our debt. While Goldman Sachs and several firms love this since all of our t-bill sales are done through them and not directly(insane!)so they earn fat commissions during any QE 1 QE2 or QE3, everyone else suffers.

How is raising taxes par of a balanced approach when there isn't anything addressing major spending cuts? It's obvious America can no longer afford to take care of everyone at its present level and kicking the can down the road. So...we raise taxes, now what?

kevink
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Nuk. About that 46%
NUK_1 wrote:

The median income in the US is over 46K for individuals and 67K for couples. I don't see how 46% of ALL citizens are some how at 18K in taxable income. You talk about historically low tax rates, but that also is true for those under 250K. That's why I have said over and over: repeal all the Bush tax cuts. Then, it becomes WHAT TO DO NOW?

So Nuk. When conservatives push the story that half of Americans don't pay income tax, what's your point? Are you saying there is non income dependent tax fraud? So you are including BOA in those numbers? I just don't understand why conservatives bring that questionable statistic up whenever tax rates are being discussed. It does not seem germane to tax rate discussions. Rates and enforcement are very different animals.

NUK_1
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kevin: It's nothing about enforcement

It's the fact that their tax status on AGI is either "zero" or "we'll pay you money for taxes you never paid/EIC." That's 46% of the people. They have no skin in the game at all and surely would love the other 54% to pay more taxes so they never have any tax liability themselves. That goes against the "balanced approach." You can thank the tax cuts for that, though liberals seem to think only the "rich" benefited from them.

When almost half the population pays no federal taxes at all, it's going to be a serious issue when that one group wants "everyone else" to pay more when they pay none and they don't want to "sacrifice" anything themselves.

The entitlement culture is the biggest block of voters for the Dems but even the Obama admin had to tell the sleazebags at the AARP that the CLASS act isn't affordable. The entitlement society is coming to its rightful end and it's going to be really ugly for a while, but the country simply cannot afford to continue to play Robin Hood in both manners: stealing from the rich to give to the poor sometimes and stealing from the poor to give to the favored rich(corps with ex-politocs as lobbyists and donors)other times.

kevink
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Nuk, we then trim the military budget, which we're doing....

We attack govt waste. I wish we'd cut politician's salaries. We trim every govt agency by a manageable percentage, and we then realize that it will take tens of years to wipe out our debt. But I don't suggest a balanced budget amendment or tax increase on low income earners. No good solutions exist truth be told. The best deal will have everyone unhappy. Both major parties. That's how we'll know it's a good deal.

Cyclist
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Really kevin

I think you better re-read lion's post. You know, the one that's titled "Share the Wealth".

BTW, I'm on the road to CLT.

kevink
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Cyclist: last month of GIG :-(

We lose it to the other boeing next month. Have to look for another surf spot.
It's going to be interesting to see how this presidential race and republican primary shape up. I wonder if any GOP candidate dare use the Cain-Koch brother connection as an attack.
BTW: Just found out even the MLK memorial is Chinese made. This is getting ridiculous. Be safe on the road.
cheers

AtHomeGym
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Kevin & the Kochs

They done anything illegal or just spend lots on conservative support. And that plant in Enid, ya know to grow stuff, ya need fertilizer and Okies and others gotta get it somewhere. You saying that the State Govt has been lax in enforcing pollution standards or what? Bet the Kochs employ lots of folks in Enid and contribute to state coffers and local communities too---like new equip for fire Depts and Fitness center for the "Y".
NO MO RIO--must be hard to take!

kevink
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Athome. Read my post again.

I've not accused the nitrogen plant Koch bros of illegal acts. But the interests of a chemical plant owner and the citizens downwind of that plant are very different. All the citizen has is a vote. The billionaire Koch brothers have the ability to buy candidates. They don't use their names. They formed a group called Americans for prosperity to provide cover. Herman Cain doesn't mention this alliance for a reason. They want less regulation for their plant. Herman's on board with that. But the citizen who has only one vote..... d0 you think they want deregulation?

Cyclist
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That's too bad kevin

I bet you'll miss that ride on the crew bus.

About the Koch thingy; my response is, Koch who?

BTW, we need another coffee meeting soon.

PTC Observer
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Kevink - Not

Not withstanding the fact that your own wealth has increased over the last decade forcing more people into poverty. I would venture to say that you would assert that you are the "exception" rather than the rule given your belief system.

I would suggest you read something that counters the consistent argument by the left that the "rich" like you are becoming "too rich".

Read, "Economic Facts and Fallacies" by Thomas Sowell beginning at page 124. See if you can follow the logic on why you are incorrect in your spoon fed "facts". If you can't follow this one I have several more for you to read, you can purchase these with that ill gotten gain you have made at the expense of the poor. ;-)

BTW - Why aren't your out there with your colleagues on the streets of Wall Street?

kevink
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PTC Observer. Hate to bust your bubble.

My net worth NOW is less than it was ten years ago. So much for your facts. And I think VERY LITTLE of Sowell's weakly supported arguments. Notice there aren't many folks, even conservatives, using Sowell as an economic source. He should continue writing fiction. Obviously he'll always find folks to buy it.
Riddle me this. How do we pay off our deficit while cutting taxes? What programs do we cut to save trillions?
Are you a drill baby drill Perry guy? A European style VAT tax Cain guy? An "I'll make gas $2 a gallon" Bachmann guy? A raise taxes and deficit spend Reagan guy? What's your solution?

PTC Observer
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kevink - OK

Then I guess you must have made some very very bad investment choices.

As to Dr. Sowell, I don't think you have much to back up your assertions concerning his economic arguments, just some hyperbole and a dismissive nature?

As to what I am, I am a person that treasures individual freedom, very small government, and a role of government that protects individual rights. The deficit is the outcome of everything counter to these positions. As long as we have a government that overreaches its intended purpose there is no solution to the deficit problem. So, I guess I am none of those "guys" you mention.

kevink
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Ptc observer. Im sorry.

Did I miss some pertinent facts you offered about Thomas Sowell? I thought you just said 'Go read the book' which ain't gonna happen. Unfortunately for you, 'None of those guys' won't be a choice in 2012. You're gonna have to hold your nose and pick, or stay on the sideline. I will proudly support our President. Guess you have some soul searching to do.

Davids mom
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THOSE WHO THINK IT'S GOBBLEYGOOK

Live in areas like Fayette County - so they don't suffer the de-regulated activities that are apparent to those who can't afford to move to 'greener pastures'. It's interesting how some here have not 'heard' of the activities of the Koch brothers. (But they can afford to have a great PR team) I'm sure they'll make sure that Cain's coffers receive some 'Koch' funds. Everyone deserves 'clean' air; honest/concerned representation. Wow - this is going to be a long, long election period.

CSPAN 1 IS COVERING THE MLK MEMORIAL! WHAT A GLORIOUS DAY! A GEORGIAN IS HONORED BY HIS COUNTRY!

PTC Observer
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DM - So

is FoxNews!

Please link us all to your facts concerning Mr. Cain's connections to the Koch brothers. some facts, not opinions please.

Great Day in America - I couldn't go this time.

Georgia Patriot
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Cain taking heavy flak!

Must be right on target! http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/story/2011-10-16/cain-koch-brother...

This is just the latest lame attempt to demonize Herman Cain. This stuff is right of of Saul Alinsky's rules for radicals.

Apparently it is now a bad thing to be for prosperity in America as Hermans ties to AFP are being attacked http://www.americansforprosperity.org/about, this being in stark contrast to Obama's apparent goals for our country. Let's hope the Koch bros do come thru with the cash! -GP

kevink
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Hey Koch brother cheerleaders. Why so sensitive?

Pointing out Herman Cain's long ties to and paychecks from the Koch brothers is not an attack. Ask yourself why he has kept 6 years of working with them off of his resume. That's just odd.
The Koch brothers created Americans for Prosperity to funnel wheel barrows of cash to folks like Cain. I wouldn't take the title they made up too literally. Again, if the Koch brothers are for the people types of guys, why hide your long standing business relationship with them? Someone should ask the VAT tax guy about that.

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Obama is a Marxist/Socialist

He proved it before he was even elected with his "spread the wealth" comment. He spent 20 years in a marxist black liberation theology church where he was able to sharpen his socialist leanings. He is funded by big labor and has ties to shady organizations like Acorn. Looking forward to seeing him voted out of office next year so that country can get on the road to recovery.

Georgia Patriot
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Obama's relationships

Maybe Someone should ask Obama about his Communist/Marxist relationships? http://commieblaster.com/obama/index.html
-GP

JeffC
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Wow GP

You brought me out of lurking. That right there is one really weird web site.

Georgia Patriot
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JeffC-Little Secret

Bill Ayers and Obama aren't the only ones with a copy of "Rules for Radicals".

Time for the moderate dems to vet Obama yet? You guys are only about 4 years too late. Looks like you're stuck, really makes me feel bad for you. -GP

kevink
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Georgia patriot. Better have a seat. This will shock you.

Don't feel bad for us. Obama IS The President of the United States. He actually won. That's why Palin was stuck doing reality television. Hope the news doesn't shake you to the core. But you can always go back to that bizarre website for solace.

Georgia Patriot
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Obama Was Not Vetted!

Don't be shocked Komrade Kevin but America is waking up!

Thanks to Lame Street Media real America was kept in the dark in 2008, the truth will be known in 2012, as Obama's 55% DISAPPROVAL rating indicates. http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administra...
New poll....Cain 43% Obama 41%
Not too bad for the guy the media is saying can't win! -GP

Davids mom
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Obama is visiting real America by bus

. and he is listening. A wise Congress will start taking action on JOBS !

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Obama's Continuing Audacious Arrogance

DM are you referring to Obama's TAXPAYER funded bus tour?
I certainly don't want my tax dollars going for that!
He should be made to drive a Chevy Volt and have to wait on a recharge every few hours!
Two things Americans don't want, Obama and The Volt! See the USA, in a Chevrolet......NOT!!!! Old, GM shareholders(the real owners of GM) and other true Americans with a brain reject both!!!
http://www.redstate.com/california_yankee/2011/08/16/obamas-audacious-ta... -GP

moelarrycurly
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dm-how many Americans got

"JOBS" building his campaign bus??????

AtHomeGym
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POTUS Bus Trip

What it means he is campaigning and not leading--skewed priorities--or self-centered priorities.

kevink
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Ahh. Every moe larry currly and athome is in the double Std ...

parade. Watch them march in step. Somehow, this President of The United States should not be allowed to actually vist those states putting forth his jobs plan. How dare he?!! The outrage!! While those patriotic GOP presidents flew and drove about these United States, "That one", as McCain called him, somehow should not be afforded the same opportunity. What a laughable protest my right leaning friends do make.

80% of Americans support this jobs bill. 80%. And THAT is the message our President is forcing the do-nothing Congress to hear. The President has had more threats against his life than any previous. There are nuts out there who would love to end the life of the president. They have been told over and over by weird websites such as georgia pseudo-patriot's that he is like Hitler; that he's socialist, marxist, communist, an enemy of America.... And ya'll don't think he needs a very expensive and high level of security? Write your congressman. Tell them to craft you an anti-Obama security law. I'm sure the House, in its current state, will be on board.

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Real America in a bus??

Do remember this TV commercial jingle - See the USA in your Chevrolet? As for congress, lets see what they do.

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You mean the TWO 1.1Million $$$$ U.S. Taxpayer PAID Busses

that were built in CANADA by a CANADIAN company?

Davids mom
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REAL Jobs

There are so many valid arguments to share to support your ideology, go beyond the suggested retorts. Everyone here is capable of individual thinking. We all read the retorts suggested by the TP. Now we'll waste time to make sure that no Republican is using a bus made in Canada. We do have a trade agreement with Canada. . . and many of our auto companies have factories in Canada. We're comparing the so called
Republican REAL Job Plan to the American Job Plan - the Republican plan includes firing government workers.
Hmmmmm puts more people on unemployment. It also puts more money into the oil industry. Eisenhower warned us about this. No budget can be taken seriously without looking at the source of revenue. The independents are listening. . . we'll see what happens after tonight. Interesting!

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G'day Jeff. Hope you and the family are well.

With enemies like these working hard to discredit themselves, I feel reelection is ever more possible. I use the term ENEMIES quite intentionally. A political opponent brings up facts or debatable ideas and touts their own ideas and or track record as a better course to take.

An enemy attacks your very being. They try to fundamentally change who you are. They tried to make Obama a hater of America because he didn't wear a flag pin. FAIL.

They tried to say he hates white people. FAIL.

They tried to lie and say he wasn't born in America. EPIC FAIL.

They continue to call him a Marxist socialist communist. How you can be all three is beyond my comprehension, but I'm glad they are flying their 'crazy' flags for all to see.

As a side, you ever notice how *conservatives seem to have marching orders to twist or ignore each and every diplomatic victory of this White House. Hearing the criticism stemming from our breaking up the Iranian assassination plot; criticism echoed today even by John McCain; it's enough to turn your stomach.

PTC Observer
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Kevink - Marxist, socialist, communist

"They continue to call him a Marxist socialist communist. How you can be all three is beyond my comprehension…"

Marx was an economic political philosopher that was a socialist and a teacher of a brand of socialism, now called Marxism. A communist is always a socialist but a socialist is not necessarily a communist.

A person can in fact be all three. In the case of Mr. Obama however, he is not a communist. His beliefs appear to be more along the lines of an anti-colonialist socialist. His father was in fact a Marxist, a socialist and an anti-colonialist.

Hope this clears up this little mystery for you.

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KevinK & Marching Orders

First, I only take such orders from ONE person--and she rarely mentions politics! Next, the fact that Iran would even CONSIDER such an act shows that they have little or zero fear of reprisal if found out! I don't call that Diplomatic success! In fact don't see where Diplomacy is involved at all--more great work by FBI and Intel resources---but odds are, we don't know half the true details yet and may never.

kevink
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Athome. No diplomatic success?

Do you think we operate alone with only US intelligence? Do you have no idea how many al qaida leaders have been sent to meet their maker under this administration? You credit whoever you wish, but I feel this White House and our intel agencies are dialed in pretty well. We have developed and fostered international relationships which are paying off. OBLs widows probably agree.

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Agreed Kevin

The Marxist socialist communist stuff is just silly. 20 years ago, Obama's positions would place him as a moderate Republican.

I'm feeling better about the election too. Under normal circumstances, he shouldn't have a chance at re-election but the Rs seem determined to field the weakest choices possible.

Back to lurking...

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Nazis, Communists, and Obama support Occupy Wall Street
JeffC wrote:

The Marxist socialist communist stuff is just silly. 20 years ago, Obama's positions would place him as a moderate Republican.

Birds of a feather.....

Nazis and Communists Throw Their Support Behind Occupy Wall Street Movements

Obama offers more support for protesters

JeffC wrote:

I'm feeling better about the election too. Under normal circumstances, he shouldn't have a chance at re-election but the Rs seem determined to field the weakest choices possible.

This coming from the same person that stated that the Republican party had met it's final demise just a few years ago. Just what we have come to expect from a Carter. Jimmy "malaise" Carter was a dismal failure at leading this country. Obama will is sure to be a one termer - just like Jimmah.

JeffC
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LOL Joe

Lordy, Lordy joe. If he is such a dismal failure after all he's accomplished, what on Earth does that make a miserable loser like you?

Joe Kawfi
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Jeff

I'm just an American citizen Jeff.

Jimmah and Barry thought that they could lead the country, and they both failed miserably.

JeffC
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Citizen Joe

A great number of people mistake opinions for thought.

Cyclist
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JeffC

It's not Obama but rather his little merry band of whacko’s like.....well like Congresswoman Maxine "I'm going to socialize oil companies" Waters.

PS, I know she met "nationalize". It was sure fun watching.

Davids mom
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Like that brilliant joke

. . .it'll kill you.. (The Fence) By Cain. There is diarrhea of the mouth on both sides.

skyspy
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Ahh Good ol Maxine

Captain of the tin foil hat club. She gives us many enjoyable moments with her version of race card meets saul aulinsky. Love that.

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I know whatcha mean Skyspy. We never get wacko laugh reel stuff.

From the right. I'd say more, but I'm off to buy some $2 Bachmann gas on my way to a Perry prayer vigil to stop the assault on him due to his Christianity. Then I'm going to get a Romney 'corporations are are people too' t shirt. I'm sure glad we don't put our loons on the top of the ticket ;-).

kevink
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Georgia patriot. Judging by your retreat to communism....

And your 'happy place' of Marxism, I take it you're as unprepared as Mr Cain to explain why a self proclaimed political outsider has such deep ties to financial politics as usual. I didn't even bring up the reason a court made his campaign advisor pay thousands in fines and sit out of campaigns for three years. The spotlight is never flattering, is it?

JeffC
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Cain has no chance Kevin

Cain has zero chance of being the Republican nominee. Perry is the only hope for the Teas and he couldn't beat Obama. The Republicans have only two candidates who can possibly beat Obama: Romney and Newt. I'm thinking that after Cain flames out, the anti-Romney crowd is going to flock to Newt next and he might just have some staying power. Yeah, his personal life is messy but so what?

Davids mom
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PTCO
Davids mom
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PTCO

WITH RESPECT - LOOK IT UP YOURSELF!!

PTC Observer
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DM - Thanks

for the respect, so I guess there are no facts to back up your statements about the Koch brothers?

Facts

Davids mom
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PTCO

Oh, I answered -but had too many links and was dropped from service. Google Cain Koch brothers. Lots of reading!

kcchiefandy
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LOL, Lion!

We - even the poor - have the highest standard of living in the WORLD! As for your 'middle class college' comments, many of those students would be better served obtaining a skill and bring manufacturing - the source of America's greatness - back to prominence; the American educational system is a farce for many degree programs. Given, the technology sector is a vital new arena for our economy, but even that field is getting somewhat overpopulated. Gee, I can't believe I can't find a job with my Sociology, or Psychology, degree! I've seen many college grads that can barely do basic math.

Teach our kids the value of hard work - again. The 'entitled' mindset needs to end - NOW. Employ standards in HS - again - and make a college degree worth something again; not an online diploma mill.

Davids mom
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It's puzzling

why a basically 'middle class' conservative segment of society since 2008 can't see the truth of lion's words. The segment quietly protesting against Wall Street 'get it'.

Davids mom
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Kc
Quote:

What 'today's world economic principles' are you suggesting - share the wealth

. NO !

Capitalism in a democratic society - implemented with integrity and honesty. The key to the success of any implementation is INTEGRITYand HONESTY. Follow the rules, provide equal access to opportunity, respect the worker, reward success. Communism and socialism did not do this with integrity. . . and so failed . China is combining capitalism with communism. If we don't institute integrity and honesty into American democratic capitalism, we will lose our #1 status IMHO.

kcchiefandy
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Fair enough, DM...

...so specifically what has been done (by major corporations/banks, I assume), that was done w/o integrity & honesty? The trade & sell of sub-prime loans that were a major catalyst of the bubble-burst? Sure, but the PEOPLE who took those loans were either stupid or GREEDY, purchasing properties they KNEW they couldn't afford. The bailouts, yes, that may have been wrong, or right, but then again how many workers did we want to add to the unemployment lines? And those loans are being readily repaid, from what I've read.

Other than that, please tell us what was done. If you don't like how you're treated by a business, etc...then DON'T deal with them. I dumped BOA as my bank years ago because their customer service was garbage; I'm now w/ a small, local bank.

Davids mom
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Kc -LOL

The store was robbed. The owner should have had a better security system! Blame the victim? Hmmmmmm.

kcchiefandy
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Wow, DM...

..that reaaalllyy went over my head! I don't get what you meant to say. If, you mean the corps. (et al), robbed the 'public', please do explain. Certainly some corps/businesses aren't innocent in some of their dealing, but I'd bet most are. They have stockholders to answer to, and aggressively attend to their markets, etc... Please provide, again, some specifics where they broke the law(s) and really screwed the 'public'. I'm sure there's something out there that the 'Occupiers' have to rant about. Please, again, do let us know; I'm busy and haven't perused the papers, web, etc...for these nasty stories.

Davids mom
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kc LOL

Sorry that went over your head:
You said:

Quote:

Sure, but the PEOPLE who took those loans were either stupid or GREEDY, purchasing properties they KNEW they couldn't afford. The bailouts, yes, that may have been wrong, or right, but then again how many workers did we want to add to the unemployment lines?

I replied:

Quote:

The store was robbed. The owner should have had a better security system! Blame the victim? Hmmmmmm.

Come on - you get it - you just don't want to let us know how intelligent and perceptive you can be. Have a great day!!

Davids mom
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Kc

Ever hear of Enron or Chase or ???????????? Why did you leave BOA? If you believe that they all deal with integrity and honesty, fine. Their investors are interested in one thing - profit. That's business, and as we have seen, not everyone operates with integrity. Ever hear of a CEO 'cooking the books'. Some have accused some of our legislators of this activity .
I wish your vision of our corporate world was reality.

kcchiefandy
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Well, yes, DM...

...they are great examples of corporations go awry. Now, shall we discuss the THOUSANDS other that are not so scurrilous? I imagine their employees aren't complaining too much. If you want to trust politicians to 'right the ship' as it were, I suggest you look at the Chicago machine the Daley built, and Obama gravitated to; talk about scurrilous...

Davids mom
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kc LOL

Or, according to some bloggers here - Fayette County Commission or PTC Council or Fayette County BOE. Good and bad - everywhere right?

AtHomeGym
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DC Andy & Blogging

Damn, you're blogging early---you musta worked a Mid!

Davids mom
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AHG

Good morning. Check the dates of kc's blogs.

Davids mom
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Kc

According to a poll published today 94% of responders are thinking of dropping their current bank. The progress made since 2008 has been slow but steady. I think Republicans need to stop demonizing success-and be a part of the recovery.

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94% going to change banks?

Good, do it then! I have a feeling it will be more like 5% and the vast majority will just whine about it and then do nothing as usual. Some will say "Big Brother HELP ME! Save me from my dumb self!" but most will do absolutely nothing.

In FC, anyone living in the county can join Delta Credit Union. Seems like a great alternative to the behemoths of suck like BOA and Wells Fargo. Of course, you have to actually DO SOMETHING instead of just whining.

Davids mom
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Nuk

I think you're right - but I can't afford to whine and do nothing! I'll be among your 5% !

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DM: AJC article on this today

http://www.ajc.com/business/banking-customers-switching-over-1201799.htm...

Maybe people will WAKE THE HELL UP and realize they have choices/alternatives in this still somewhat free market economy when it comes to who you use for banking and you don't have to eat extra fees from your bank.

I love the last line of this article:
“They have every right to make a profit,” he said of the banks. “I also have every right to take my money out of there, and that’s what I did.”

HELL YES! That's what I'm talking about! People need to stop whining all the time and take action like this educated person did.

kcchiefandy
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I agree, DM...

...as stated, I dropped mine. If our Federal gov't would stop spending and borrowing us into the 31st century, we'd recover much quicker. Can't drive far on an empty tank...here's to getting the tax & spenders out of our gov't - Cain in '12!!!

grizz
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greed

Well, we know that 'hope and change' was a dismal failure and will be glad to see it tossed out of the White House in 2012.

Davids mom
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Grizz

We're still here and moving in the right direction. Returning to your ideology is foolish . . And Americans aren't foolish. Those who want to see this president fail have proven that they don't care about the average citizens in this country. ABO? How about Cain? Have you sent in your financial support?

grizz
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Davids mom - Obama IS a failure

What do you mean "want" to see this president fail? He has already failed on his own. The great experiment in electing 'hope and change', along with his socialist/marxist principles that he learned from attending Wrights black liberation theology church has proven to be a failure.

I already have sent and continue to send my contributions to Herman Cain. I am not for electing anybody but Obama, however a turnip could beat him at this point.

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Great article Terry.

You are right on the target.

It seems government education and programs have created a class of ignorant uneducated idiots who are given low interest loans to attend college instead of rewarding those who seek to achieve the greater good that education can provide.

AtHomeGym
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KC Andy & Hawg

Yes, school-trained but then cross-trained as a Duffy when I got into the field. Spent many wonderful yrs at isolated Detachments in Germany.

kcchiefandy
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Ulm, Bad Tolz, perhaps?

Augsburg here; almost 4 yrs. Loved it; would go back in a minute!

AtHomeGym
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KC Andy & Augsburg

You might go back but you won't find any Americans there now---ALL gone!

kcchiefandy
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Yes, AtHome...

...we gave it all back! You might want to check out the FS Augsburg Yahoo group:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Augsburg2ndOPS/?prop=eupdate

kcchiefandy
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Yes, AtHome...

...gave it all back to the Herms! You might want to check out this Yahoo group; you might know some here, may want to join it:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Augsburg2ndOPS/

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