Visiting America

Terry Garlock's picture

For a few special moments recently I was back in the America I used to know.

Saturday I indulged in an overpriced but warm bag of popcorn, slathered in a chemical liquid that is probably carcinogenic but the movie theater staff call it “butter,” along with a half-gallon diet drink only a movie theater would size as “medium” and charge $5.50.

I enjoyed the popcorn while watching the film titled “America.” This film recounted the grievances of anti-American critics within our country, some who are university professors teaching our kids to despise America, and then the film presented the many blessings America has brought to our people and to the world.

For two reasons I would guess the people who really need to see the film, like Democrat voters, were not there, first because the subject matter was pro-America and second because at the end of the film patrons broke into spontaneous applause. I felt the warm comfort of camaraderie with countrymen.

Sunday a patriotic friend sent me a link to the Youtube story of a 400-foot high flagpole erected with heavy-duty engineering by the Acuity Insurance Company in Sheboygan, Wis., flying an American flag 60 feet high and 120 feet long.

Company President and CEO Ben Salzman said some were concerned the huge flag would dwarf the new company building, but he said that was precisely what he hoped to do. Salzman said, “We proudly fly this flag because we are blessed to live and work in the United States of America.”

At the flag dedication, with over 1,000 people in attendance, company employees who are military veterans carried the 90-pound flag to the pole. An Army Reserve rifle team fired a 21-gun salute and a flight of Wisconsin National Guard F-16s flew over low enough to make things shake a little. Now, every day 50,000 people traveling Interstate 43 marvel at the flag that can be seen from miles away.

I’m not ashamed to tell you I had a patriotic lump in my throat from these displays of love for our country. And then I was slapped right back into the liberal Twilight Zone we live in when I turned on TV news.

Remember the Obama Administration resisting tough action on Iran while negotiating limits on their nuclear program? The American State Department and White House seem to be the only ones left on the planet who actually believe the Iranians are acting in good faith. The rest of us realize they continue to hurry along their surreptitious nuclear weapon development program while engaging in delays and pretending to negotiate.

Sunday, July 20, was the agreement deadline, not met of course, but in a spineless fit of concession the liberal Obama Administration is now granting the Iranians a four-month extension to negotiate while we are releasing $2.8 billion of their frozen assets, I suppose out of gratitude that they will continue to talk to us. Do we drive a hard bargain or what?

Meanwhile, President Obama gave Russia’s Putin another impotent tongue-lashing for blowing nearly 300 civilians out of the Ukrainian sky, but cautioned we must not get out ahead of the facts, an excuse for inaction he has already worn out.

Historically, the public words of presidents have been taken seriously as signals of actions to come, but President Obama has proven to the world repeatedly that consequences from America will merely be more empty words from him, the foundation of his weakness.

President Obama observed that we need a cease-fire in Ukraine, with no effect of course because his empty words have the clout of Pee-Wee asking pretty-please to the schoolyard bully.

He also made things worse by referring to the Ukrainians, Russian-supported separatists and Russians as morally equivalent parties, which of course they are not, as anyone can see by the stolen Crimea sticking out of the smugly satisfied Putin’s back pocket.

But then Obama has always had his own notion of equivalence, like his declining to wear an American flag lapel pin because, “I don’t want to take sides.” As for consequences to Putin, Obama isn’t even tough enough to impose the diplomatic price of cutting off communications with him and the Russian Secretary of State counterpart. We must keep talking, mustn’t we?

If that isn’t enough to fail your laugh test, consider the flood of illegal immigrant kids pouring across our southern border. Democrats are blaming the William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2008, known as the TVPRA, designed to fast-track deportation of Mexican illegals while kids from non-contiguous countries get scheduled for a hearing.

That means the Democrats set up Obama to blame George W. Bush, but it’s another Democrat lie, folks. Did you notice the flood didn’t start following that 2008 law?

The flood of illegal kids started after Obama’s 2012 violation of U.S. immigration law when he ruled that illegal kids who came here with their parents can stay. He gave them amnesty with a stroke of his royal pen with powers his office does not have, and after that is when the flood started, even though his illegal action does not even apply to these kids at our borders now.

Funny how Obama is doing nothing about the border problem but relishing the political issue, which the media, having taken his bait, will blame on Republicans for obstructing comprehensive immigration reform, aka even bigger amnesty. If your head spins like mine, just hold onto something to catch your balance.

Bleeding hearts and TV talking heads announce their compassion by calling this border issue a humanitarian crisis, saying our priority must be caring for the children.

Well, pardon my lack of compassion, but care for the children and determining the real cause for the crisis is a secondary concern.

The primary and immediate issue is that U.S. sovereignty and national security is threatened by porous borders and a flood of illegals that are overwhelming our immigration system and draining American resources, all while the White House dishonorably giggles in glee over the politics.

How can it be a Democrat vs. Republican issue to observe that a country cannot keep its sovereignty and security without controlling its borders and making rational decisions about limits on the immigrants granted entry?

I will make many of my Republican colleagues nervous with my view that our compassion should be reserved first for our country. If I had the power, I would do things some would call radical, like mobilize state National Guard units to the southern border to secure the borders with lethal force, like sending illegals caught violating our border to work camps for a few years where their labor would be applied to building and repairing border fencing, thereby killing their incentive to return once finally released.

What about the children, you ask? Send them back immediately on a flight tomorrow, let Honduras or Guatemala where they came from handle them. What if that country is not safe for the children, you ask? Let them solve their own problems, we can’t solve everything for the world.

But the children are suffering, you say. Blame the scumbags in Honduras, Guatemala and Mexico who are inflicting this on the kids to use them as a weapon against the U.S. The abuse is on them. We cannot let this happen to America, we must be tough and put a stop to it, or else invite further border games.

Mexico has been complicit on U.S. border violations for decades. They are complicit in this crisis and should pay a price. Maybe we should round up and send back a million illegals a month until they release our Marine citizen, then negotiate from strength instead of weakness for a change.

Of course using lethal weapons to secure the border and work camps for illegals are just my crazy ideas.

But we better do something fast because liberals running America are setting up a national suicide.

If you are one of those liberals you probably want to shake me (or worse) and persuade me to call them undocumented instead of illegal just for starters. You surely consider me to be wrong-headed about these issues and that Obama is doing just fine if only evil Republicans would stop impeding his initiatives.

And therein lies the fundamental problem. We need to stop pretending to be fellow Americans on the same team because our values are diametrically opposed and too far apart to be reconciled.

I’m sorry, but I don’t love you any more. We can be friends, but first we need a divorce. We need to go our separate ways, you and I, liberals in one direction, conservatives in another.

As things are, we are perpetually divided against each other and cannot get anything useful done as each side obstructs the other.

If Republicans win the next election, I am confident our country will not reverse course, but will only slow down a little bit the speed at which our country is racing pell-mell over the cliff. I would argue we have already gone over the edge but have not yet experienced impact at the bottom.

How about you take the entire west coast, and from Maryland northward on the East coast. We’ll take the middle states and northern Florida; you better take south Florida.

Please leave Fox News but take the rest of the news media because we have to rebuild that from scratch. Will you also please take the liberal third of elected Republicans with you because they are Democrat Lite and more closely aligned with you?

You can have the school system, it is too far gone for us to salvage. We’ll start over with basics and a focus on American history taught with a love of liberty and capitalism. We’ll give teachers disciplinary authority and require parents to help maintain discipline.

Please take the EPA, Dept. of Labor, Commerce, IRS and the rest of the bloated Executive branch. We’ll start over lean and mean and will require significant regulations to be blessed by Congress. Good luck with all those deeply entrenched federal union employees.

No need to talk about who gets the guns; they will naturally end up on our side.

An immediate split is best, I think. Without conservatives like me to slow you down, you can gorge yourself on government. Without the interference of you liberals, we conservatives could start over with the original Constitution and actually follow its design to keep the fed small and states strong. I would suggest we call ourselves “Old America” and you could use “New America.”

You and I could remain friends and the distance might be really good for our relationship. You could visit us here in Old America, and I’d love to update you on how the Constitution is working for us, but please be sure to obey all the border rules since our guards will be armed and trained to kill to secure our border.

When you come here or we go there to visit, we can keep the conversation cordial by avoiding religion or politics.

New beginnings. For now it’s only a dream. For now.

(Full disclosure – some years ago a law student named John J. Wall wrote a column titled “America Needs a Divorce,” and that column was widely circulated. He gets the credit for the wonderful idea.)

[Terry Garlock of Peachtree City occasionally contributes a column to The Citizen. His email is terry@garlock1.com.]

Gort
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Hey Garlock, yet another

Hey Garlock, yet another rabid right wing diatribe based on prejudice and the careless hyper injection of nonsense reported by the mythmakers at Faux News, talk radio, and other right wing shills that serves the interest of the Republican Party.

Can't you even imagine trying to accomplish a complex task without the use of lethal force? Do you really believe the USA can kill its way out of every problem and still be the USA?

So you want a divorce, eh? What's stopping you, pack your bags and get out! Where you go is your business but I'm pretty sure you won't be happy there either!

Try Honduras, Guatemala, or maybe even El Salvador, no social safety net there and they've been using lethal force to achieve domestic tranquility for as long as I can remember.

BTW, did I tell you I got a copy of your book?

RKS
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Terry - look

I saw you there....but didn't say hello as we aren't friends and I didn't think it was appropriate to announce myself in a movie theater. Just recognized your face from your posts here. So, contrary to your narrow minded thinking, there was a liberal in the audience.

A divorce, that's taking the easy way out....too bad you don't want to sit down, talk, compromise a bit and work together to have a better country. It's that divisive thinking that is ruining our great country.

tgarlock
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RKS - liberals and conservatives work together?

I'd have to write 100 pages here to even begin to make the case, but liberals have been pushing this country relentlessly toward Perdition for well over 50 years, and the opposition has been trying ceaselessly to wake you guys up to the fact we can't spend what we don't have forever without disaster. It is WAY past the talking stage. Republicans are guilty, too, only less so for playing the same game even while they tried to stop or slow the fiscal insanity. There soon won't even be pieces of wreckage big enough to pick up.

I will suggest to you the one thing that could have saved America if it had been done sooner, and that is a real, enforced balanced budget amendment to the Constitution so that we would have been FORCED to stop borrowing and make prioritized rationing decisions on where scarce dollars would go. That is the only way in our current system of blind fiscal gluttony to get rid of massive waste and duplication with layer after layer of government giveaways and entitlements. But now it is too late, the differences between us are too deep and irreconcilable and divorce, in my opinion, is inevitable at some point.

I would have been happy to say hello in the theater. If you are willing, I'd be interested in your take on the film, America.
Terry Garlock

RKS
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Terry-Film
tgarlock wrote:

I'd have to write 100 pages here to even begin to make the case, but liberals have been pushing this country relentlessly toward Perdition for well over 50 years, and the opposition has been trying ceaselessly to wake you guys up to the fact we can't spend what we don't have forever without disaster. It is WAY past the talking stage. Republicans are guilty, too, only less so for playing the same game even while they tried to stop or slow the fiscal insanity. There soon won't even be pieces of wreckage big enough to pick up.

I will suggest to you the one thing that could have saved America if it had been done sooner, and that is a real, enforced balanced budget amendment to the Constitution so that we would have been FORCED to stop borrowing and make prioritized rationing decisions on where scarce dollars would go. That is the only way in our current system of blind fiscal gluttony to get rid of massive waste and duplication with layer after layer of government giveaways and entitlements. But now it is too late, the differences between us are too deep and irreconcilable and divorce, in my opinion, is inevitable at some point.

I would have been happy to say hello in the theater. If you are willing, I'd be interested in your take on the film, America.
Terry Garlock

I blame Repubs and Dems for the fiscal condition of this country -- no way am I gonna say one or the other is to blame. We have a group of blood sucking parasites running our country who make sure they have lovely insurance, a nice paycheck and lots of benes at the same time making sure those of us who work our a**es off on a daily basis don't get so many of those benes.

As far as the movie...I had mixed emotions on it. I was one of the people you heard clapping.

I am pretty sick and tired of the division in this country that got to be a huge chasm when the current President was elected. No matter who you are, you respect the office and you don't hate someone because of the color of their skin. I never much cared for Bush, but I didn't spew vitriol at every turn - that does NOTHING to solve anything.

Way too much hate in this country among the conservatives for my liking. Hate on both sides, but my personal experience has been that the conservatives have come out with some incredible vile things that do nothing to solve any problems since we got Obama as the Chief.

I am an old fashioned liberal, I believe in standing side by side with my neighbors (movie goers) working as a team to resolve problems, not picking each other to death over things. As far as the movie, I think libs and dems need to sit side by side, watch the movie and then have a civil discussion over a cup of coffee brewed at a locally owned coffee house that would NOT include discussions of divorce.

I also gave up watching the nonsense on Fox, CNN, etc....nothing good comes from Hannity Hatred or the nonsense that is told as lies to just raise your blood pressure by either the libs or the dems. Both are guilty of it and I want no part of the lies that are spewed on tv or on shock radio. Got no time for it. If we wouldn't listen, they would stop doing it. Instead, many chose to live in fear and feel lots of hatred toward our fellow Americans instead of doing what we used to do int he old days, giving a helping hand up instead of a hand out.

I don't believe in handouts no matter who you are and the people in D.C. make sure they get plenty of hand outs.

So, that's more than you asked for, but since I don't post much on here anymore and everything thinks I am just like "any other liberal", maybe someone will stop and think for a minute before slicing and dicing me into a bunch of little pieces.

G35 Dude
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RKS- Skin color?
Quote:

No matter who you are, you respect the office and you don't hate someone because of the color of their skin.

I read your post and find much to agree with. However the above statement really bothers me. Do you really think that the only reason one would dis-like Obama is his skin color?

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Dude
G35 Dude wrote:
Quote:

No matter who you are, you respect the office and you don't hate someone because of the color of their skin.

I read your post and find much to agree with. However the above statement really bothers me. Do you really think that the only reason one would dis-like Obama is his skin color?

I have met people who have hated him from the moment he became President simply because he is a man who is part African American, yes. I have sat in a room of some fairly educated conservative people call him expletives that referred to the color of his skin, yes.

AtHomeGym
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G35/RKS reply

Might take RKS a while to answer--he's trying his "compromise" tactic out with Harry Reid!

MYTMITE
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Mr. Garlock thank you for expressing so eloquently what many of

us are feeling. Regarding the influx at our borders; I get sick to my stomach when I hear and read about all the little children riding rails and braving all perils to get to the promised land, when in reality what I see are mothers with their children stating that they have been told to come and they will be welcomed. I also see many, many older children. Now I read about the gangs which have crossed our borders and are writing their gang graffiti on the walls of the places they have been billited. Of course most of them will be foisted on the public and told to report later. What a joke. Many of these people have paid thousands of dollars to 'coyotes' to bring them across. Where did these impovershed people get those thousands of dollars?

As I have said before, we are living on borrowed money which we then give to other nations, who by the way do not appreciate us, as our own infrastructure collapses around us. Many of our cities are overrun by gangs and we do nothing while crying we have to let those at our borders enter to get away from the gangs in their homeland. Our states, counties and school systems, welfare rolls are stretched beyond the limit, yet we are being asked to spend billions to house, provide legal services, etc., to people surging across our borders. What insanity.

The answer to every problem in these countries is that the people are not willing to work to make their countries better when it so much easier to come here and eventually gather together and wave the flags of their native countries as the shout for their 'so called' rights. Why did they not stand up and do that in their own countries? Simple, for the same reason that our service personnel fight for other countries and die on foreign soil while the natives of those countries refuse to fight for their own country and future.

There will be the 'naysayers' that will say what you have written is unAmerican. We can always count on DM to espouse the usual drivel. Of course she has always been your champion in the past, but you have hit the Obama sore spot and the words will flow. But there will be those others, myself included, who cheer what you say, who have the interests of this country at heart. Those who know we cannot continue down this road without doing irreparable damage to our country. No, Mr, Garlock, what you have written is not unAmerican but what every thinking and caring American should be saying. We need to start mending our country and find that road back to what our country was and what our forefathers meant it to be. Of course, there will be those who will quote the words on the Statue of Liberty "give me your huddled masses, etc., etc" Nowhere did it say 'let them breach our borders and come illegally." We will welcome those huddle masses who come into this country legally. That was the American way and should be the way things are handled now. Let's pray it is not too late to return to sanity in this country.

Just one other thought. Every time I fly, we are instructed that in the event of an emergency to put the masks on ourselves before we try to help others; stressing the fact that we cannot help others before we make ourselves as safe as possible. Well, perhaps it is time for America to pull down the masks.

Davids mom
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What do you propose we do

Within our antiquated immigration law? Allowing 'refugees' from these countries has been on the 'books' for too long. Coyotes and others are making money with this 'influx'. What is Congress doing? The President is accused of being a dictator if he takes unilateral action. And 'weak' if he does nothing. What do you propose our leaders do?

PTC Observer
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One thing is for sure DM

Mexico defends it's National boarders, it captures even those that make wrong turns. Why don't we do the same thing?

Mr. Obama is not a dictator, but I firmly believe that he would like to be one. That rag of a Constitution keeps getting in his way as it has with every other progressive President.

Davids mom
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We are a country of laws
Quote:

Mexico defends it's National boarders, it captures even those that make wrong turns. Why don't we do the same thing?

Because we are a country of laws and our antiquated immigration policy requires that we give refugees from these countries 'due process' before repatriation. Are our leaders taking action to correct this policy - or are they waiting to see what the president does in this crisis so they can call him 'weak' or a dictator? Our founding fathers were not all men who agreed on every issue. But they didn't walk away from problems and request a divorce . Often in my travels I am asked when will Americans stop practicing Apartheid in dealing with people of color. Although our laws have changed, the American psyche, in their eyes, has not.

According to our current immigration policy, citizens of Mexico are not granted 'due process' and are deported without the due process granted to citizens of Guatemala, Honduras, and El Salvador.

Progress has been made in South Africa because of a period of reconciliation. Leaders sat down, looked at the issues that had to be dealt with; worked together to find answers to difficult problems; and then worked together in taking agreed upon steps to heal a divided nation. The extreme right is calling for a divorce. Americans love their country. Americans have difficulty loving all of its law abiding citizens. To those who don't always feel this 'love' , skin color, national heritage, religion appears to be a cause for this lack of love. Our history shows that all Americans worked together to rebuild our economy after WWII. That was the great generation. They didn't call for a divorce.

PTC Observer
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"antiquated immigration policy" DM

Please explain this statement, what specifically is "antiquated"??

As to "due process", the rights of citizens to due process does not extend to people that illegally enter the United States of America, a sovereign nation. Illegals break the law, as they enter Mexico or the United States and are subject to rules set up to administrate their return to their home countries or imprisonment. If we can fly children to nearly every state in the union to disperse them, we can fly them back to their home country.

Facebook postings are not substitutes for law, illegals should know that they will be returned to their home countries as citizens of those countries, they are not citizens here. Once they know this they will not come here. BTW DM, these illegals pay $10,000 on average to get here. Where do you think the poor people are coming up with this kind of dough? Could it be.....gasp.....illegal drugs?

You and other socialists want to stack courts and voters, have "executive orders" to by pass the other branches of government, turn one group of citizens against another group of citizens based on skin color, heritage and wealth. However, after six years of socialist policies, government corruption and lawlessness, times are a chang'in DM. We see through it.

I don't want a "divorce" DM, I want representatives with different ideas and policies than the current government, completely different ideas, those ideas based on individual freedom, fiscal conservatism and very small government.

Davids mom
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PTCO

Read the law - immigration. Thanks.

PTC Observer
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DM - You are

making the assertion, you should justify what you mean by "antiquated law", what part(s) of the immigration law do you consider "antiquated"?

Or are you simply, spewing what you have been taught to spew? Unfounded and undocumented assertions that have no basis in fact. Stand up for what you believe and give us your option based on the law as written.

I would encourage you to read the law before drawing an option.

Davids mom
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Nice empty rhetoric

As usual you have not read the document or the existing law. For years we were not having problems with Central American countries/immigration - but under the Bush administration, this changed. Possibly earlier. The Bush administration presented a PLEA for Congress to reform the immigration policy to meet current needs. They didn't. Antiquated - old and/or outdated. Our government is abiding by our existing law - the law that this Congress has not dealt with so that certain business 's in our country used to pay illegals less than the minimum wage. I will no longer respond to your rhetoric, only specifics. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to point out why reform is needed to our immigration policy. Some members of a Congress may feel more obliged to American business; some feel more obliged to the American people who need jobs more than the illegals they have been hiring! Evalidate has helped with this problem.

PTC Observer
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Another non-answer

DM?

You can't define what is and isn't antiquated can you? You're just spewing what you hear on TV I suppose. Get specific, if you can.

People, all people that cross our borders without government permission to do so are violating our law, they are illegal aliens. That, DM is a fact.

Here's some statistics on illegal workers as of 2008, the latest data available. Now, what political advantage do you see in these statistics? Here, I'll help you, California and Texas.

http://immigration.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000845

Do you believe that we have a nation of laws? A sovereign nation? What's so hard to understand DM?

Davids mom
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PTCO

Antiquated - old, does not meet the current need. Thank you for your information. Did you read it? Do you understand that our 'old' immigration policy has different 'laws', methods for handling immigrants from Mexico than immigrants from Central American countries? Presently, we are FOLLOWING OUR OWN LAW regarding immigrants from Central American countries. Unfortunately, some uninformed Americans see all Hispanics as Mexicans; some uninformed Americans see all WHITE people as uninformed racists. We, the United States, are following our own law regarding the crisis at our border. These children are entitled, under United States law, to a due process before being returned to their country. (repatriated). If we had a Congress that was more interested in protecting the borders, than protecting the service industry in our country - this immigration problem would have been dealt with under the Bush administration. But of course, you knew that. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to clarify what I mean by 'antiquated'.

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PTCO

Debating the committed progressive is like eating soup with a spoon. Be that as it may I greatly admire your tenacity!

SPQR
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correction

meant fork. What happened to the edit feature?

moelarrycurly
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SPQR

When someone replies to your post, as PTC O did at 8:52AM, you can no longer edit. Just as I just did to your question above at 11:40AM. One of those quirky things on here you don't know till you try to edit and cannot. I'll stick a fork in it, I'm done. :)

SPQR
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<MLC

Thanks. I'll quit scratching my head

PTC Observer
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SPQR - Yes

I think you meant to say "fork"?

My intent is not to debate, but expose.

Ideas are powerful things, ideas backed up by facts are more than ideas, they are reality and reality is dangerous to the state. The reality is that we are living in a world that has been and continues to be shaped in great part by the failed ideas of Marx and Lenin. From our government schools we are taught these concepts, that the state is all powerful and can solve all problems, it is the answer to our suffering, that the individual is meaningless and worse evil. The individual is to be looked upon with suspension and collared into submitting to the state's collective will. Individual speech, press and actions are to be monitored and controlled with the use of laws passed by the "majority" and administered by the Leviathan .

These are all things that statists like DM believe, they point to the history of minority suppression as evidence of bad individual behavior. All the while, ignoring that it was the state that suppressed them, the democratically elected power of the state that erected laws to push them down, and it was the ideas in the Constitution that saved them. 300,000 individual white men died of wounds and disease to overturn the power of the state to control their lives. 300,000 individuals willing to die for an idea. That all men are born to be individually free, to live free, to seek happiness in bringing up their families without the heal of the state on their throats. The yoke that was thrown off by that Great War, has been thrust upon the backs of individuals by many of the ancestors of former slaves. All with 'righteous indignation' that "they" will do it again, if given freedom to do it.

DM is not a arbitration, she represents ideas of many that have been proven over and over to impoverish and subjugate the masses to the will of the state. The ideas of Marx and Lenin are being advanced by this administration and past administrations to enrich themselves and their cronies, all under the guise of "helping" the people. The people continue to believe it's rich, white, men, racists, bigots and capitalism that has caused all our problems, not the state. The state is our savior they believe.

The great central government that grew out of the Civil War abused the trust of the American people, it immediately grew more corrupt following the Great War and today is nearly unrecognizable set against the idea of individual freedom that the founders envisioned.

Until we as individuals recognize that the state is the problem in our lives, we will continue to suffer with all the ills that socialists blame on individuals. The great progressive era never ended, it continues to march "forward", its goal is to suppress individual freedom with the failed promise of "better days, hope and change" and ultimately imprisonment for those that speak out with individualistic ideas. It has happened before and it will happen again.

Being taken care of by the state from cradle to grave, that is the ultimate in enslavement and the goal of every socialist. A world not envisioned by our Founders but by George Orwell and Aldous Huxley.

“The surest way to work up a crusade in favor of some good cause is to promise people they will have a chance of maltreating someone. To be able to destroy with good conscience, to be able to behave badly and call your bad behavior 'righteous indignation' — this is the height of psychological luxury, the most delicious of moral treats.”

― Aldous Huxley, Crome Yellow

Take heed in what you actually see, not in what you are told to believe and above all stand up for individual Rights every chance you get, even here on this blog.

NUK_1
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PTCO: Well said and so true

Agree 100%.

Keep fighting the war of ideals. It might be getting late, but I still hold out hope for my now adult children to not be doomed to perpetual statism and not-so-creeping socialism. This era is one time that I can say that I don't mind being "old" since I won't be around when it all collapses in a sordid heap, but I fear for my kids and their own.

Davids mom
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PTCO - really?
Quote:

The great central government that grew out of the Civil War abused the trust of the American people, it immediately grew more corrupt following the Great War and today is nearly unrecognizable set against the idea of individual freedom that the founders envisioned.

Quote:

DM is not a arbitration, she represents ideas of many that have been proven over and over to impoverish and subjugate the masses to the will of the state. The ideas of Marx and Lenin are being advanced by this administration and past administrations to enrich themselves and their cronies, all under the guise of "helping" the people. The people continue to believe it's rich, white, men, racists, bigots and capitalism that has caused all our problems, not the state. The state is our savior they believe.

Now here we go again. Tie the result of the Civil War, where some states felt their right to property was taken away; tie that to Marx and Lenin - and now we have the distrust of the 'central' government which forced the attempt to treat all individual equally in this country on those like PTCO, who feels that 'government workers should not vote. Please correct me if I am misinterpreting what you have said. Thanks. By the way, the 'savior' of all citizens in this country are the words of our Constitution. When we as citizens don't participate in our democratic events, we give power to the few who do.

Davids mom
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PTCO

No one cares too much about what you think of me in this discussion - what is your answer to the 'truth' about what is happening today regarding our 'antiquated immigration policy?

Quote:

its goal is to suppress individual freedom with the failed promise of "better days, hope and change" and ultimately imprisonment for those that speak out with individualistic ideas. It has happened before and it will happen again.

What actions of suppressing individual freedom are you referring to? What citizens have been imprisoned for speaking out with individualistic ideas? What segment of our population since the Civil War has been recipient of the failed promise of better days, hope and change?

Please be specific - and speak the 'truth' as you see it. I will certainly respond with the 'truth' as I see it.

Thanks

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PTCO

Yep. Meant fork. Need to be awake before blabbing on about stuff. BTW you probably meant aberration. Anyway I continue to be frightened when so many people are incapable of getting 4

PTC Observer
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SPQR - Right

Yep, you're right too! DM is not an aberration, thanks.

You have every reason to be frightened, the government is totally out of control and will remain so.

Davids mom
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PTCO

The current pseudo intellectual - with little understanding of the real world. Thank heavens for persons like DeKlerk, Mandela, Martin Luther King, Ghandi and Aldos Huxley - who proved that revenge does not work, but understanding and a sincere effort to live at peace with those who appear to be enemies.

Quote:

Being taken care of by the state from cradle to grave, that is the ultimate in enslavement and the goal of every socialist. A world not envisioned by our Founders but by George Orwell and Aldous Huxley.

What is your political philosophy ? You aren't a Communist; a Socialist; a Marxist; a Republican; a Democrat; etc.. You appear to be a very critical American - with little knowledge of solutions that would help us to solve our many critical issues. If I'm wrong - wouldn't it be better to share your 'solutions' than spending time 'exposing' someone?

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Solutions - DM

I have on many occasions given you some of my solutions, go search them out in the archives of this blog.

The real solution to every ill that we have in our society is individual freedom with less government control. The power of the individual to solve problems is far superior than centralized control of human action. State power over the individual is not freedom DM.

You expose yourself each time you post, we all do. The real question is what ideas have truth behind them?

Davids mom
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PTCO - THE TRUTH

Organizations, families, communities exist successfully when there is cooperation, respect for the individual, common goals. In order to achieve this - when there is a GROUP of individuals, a type of governance is necessary.

In our country, where the founding fathers took all of the above in consideration, a Constitution became the governing document. Part of that document gave members of the group representation (Legislatve branch); the Executive branch was to execute the findings of the legislative branch; the Judicial branch was to make sure the legislation and execution followed the 'law', as stated in the Constitution.

When all three branches do their job - the United States is an example of an organization that works. What is going wrong? Special interest groups 'buying' members of the branches of our government that are supposed to 'work' for the citizens of our country. I feel that we agree in principle on this - I may be wrong. You have stated that you support the limitation of citizens input into the governance of our country. (No government workers should vote) I disagree with this. Too many people in our country DO NOT VOTE! We have turned our country over to the special interests who can pay for 'advertisement', 'campaigns', etc. of our elected leaders. More time and money is spent on this procedure than in lowering our deficit and maintaing our educational system, or transportation system, etc., etc., etc. The recent elections have shown that the poll takers have excluded input from a segment of the citizenship - and the polls are not always an accurate picture on how Americans feel about certain candidates or issues. All Americans cannot be bought, many can actually think for themselves - and evaluate who will actually represent them in 'government'.

Your contribution to this discussion makes very clear your feelings about 'individual freedom' - as long as that individual agrees with you and your ideas. I hope that I express the need to include all in our governance structure - and the need for ALL to participate.

PTC Observer
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Yes, DM

the collective, that's the answer, it's always the answer with socialist. The common good, cooperation, the GROUP comes always before the individual. However, it's the individual that has a contract with the government, not the group. It's the individual that is the creative force in nature, solving problems in a free society, not the government. From where does our government derive its power, what is the social contract we have with government? What freedom do we give up for security DM? How much do we give up to the group? How much does the group want from us?

You speak as if we have a functioning government with a separation of powers. Well you simply don't understand that this form of government has long passed, the authority for governance has been given up by the Congress and the President and the Courts to the bureaucracy. The Leviathan, controls our lives, it is a living creature that will strike down all that threatens it, including the Congress. You merely need to look at the smug appearance of those in front of Congressional hearings to understand this. They are no longer afraid of the Congress or the President for that matter. They have the power, we have given it to them, all with good intentions.

Power once relinquished is rarely recoverable. Now go out and purchase that incandescence light bulb before it's too late. And you trust them with our bodies, how naive can you get?

Davids mom
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PTCO

Our government is not a 'collective'. The United States is a republic where democracy is practiced. Cuba has a 'collective' government where communism is practiced. You know, if you are so unhappy, you have the individual freedom to leave; quietly live on your own partial of land and refuse the services that the citizens of our republic cooperatively provide. You use words to denigrate our wonderful country. I use words to celebrate the United States and the progress that it has made over 200 years in protecting the individual and allowing the individual to use their skills to succeed based on their ability and effort. You still haven't answered my questions. You are very,very intelligent, so don't tell me to reread your former essays. The words of our Constitution protects the Individual rights of every citizen. (It is still being used to give all cituzens equal rights and opportunity regardless of religion, sexual orientation, gender, race). It appears that you have difficulty with our government living up to the words of our Constitution and enforcing those rights for all citizens. Be specific, what individual rights/freedoms have been taken since the Civil War? Our form of government does work if each branch does its job rather than follow the dictates of those who have been allowed to pay for campaigns. I'm not naive - but very aware of the subtrafuge used since the Civil War of those who resented the change that happened in our country. You can't hide under the guise of lack of individual freedom. We hear you loud and clear!
Have a nice day.

PTC Observer
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Baiting DM?

are you attempting to bait me DM?

We are a collective, whether you believe this or not is immaterial to me.

I would assert DM, that there has been a coup in this country, that the Freedoms our Constitution was designed to protect have been abridged.

My freedoms are threatened by uncontrolled borders, politically empowered tax collectors, unbridled regulations of my life, liberty and property, an appeasement Chamberlain like policy toward our enemies, spying by a national spy agency on its own citizens, a professional political elite that enrich themselves at the expense of fellow citizens, an entitlement class, government schools that use propaganda to brain wash our children into believing the government is the solution to every perceived social ill, I could go on for a long, long time DM.

Now get out there and get that light bulb before it's too late! Whatever you do don't pick up any bird feathers as you go, as you will be subject to a $250,000 fine and five years in jail, unless of course you are a Native American practicing your tribal duties. You must be able to prove that you are at least 25% Native American. However, if you are in a National Park, these laws may be null and void even if you are a Native American if you are over 500 miles from one of your "normal" tribal villages. Possession of certain bird feathers is a Federal crime, just keep it in mind, agents are watching and waiting for you to just pick one up.

Now, if you're not collecting feathers, well you have nothing to worry about. Of course, maybe someone will just report that you are doing drug deals out of your home. Then the Feds can just come in and take all your possessions including your home, cars, etc. and you'll just have about four or five years to prove that you didn't do it. Of course, by that time your property will likely be sold off by the government. Then you can spend the next 10 or 15 years trying to get restitution. All it takes DM is for someone to make an accusation, plant some cocaine or heroin on your property that's it. Nah, DM everything is just fine, just don't make the state angry or any of your politically connected "friends" either.

Naive DM, you're naive. I know you "feel good", but being a Social Democrat, you have every reason to feel good. Kumbaya!

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PTCO

Exposed. Feel free to collect your feathers. There are other issues to be concerned about. Thanks for sharing what your major concerns are - is your representative in Congress working for you?

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PTC-O & Laws

Yes, but we all should be aware that those laws are subject to "non-enforcement" by our AG and this administration! In other words, if we agree with the laws in question, fine, we'll enforce them--otherwise, we won't! Quite simply, violations of Oaths of Office--but who cares?

SPQR
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AHG

Administrations have typically chosen to enforce laws selectively. The current administration has taken it to a level that is toxic.

But being the devils advocate consider that there are so many laws enforcing them all would be impossible.

Back in the 50's there was a TV show called "You Asked For It" The show responded to requests from their TV audience. One Request was to have an ordinary person go 24 hours without breaking any laws. The subject was positive he had accomplished this but was surprised he had broken a quite serious law by not destroying the tax stamp on a pack of cigarettes.

At an early age I realized the system was far from perfect.

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SPQR: Agree

I have no problem with the DOJ deciding what is a priority or not a big deal. There are so many damn laws in this country that enforcing them 100% of the time is impossible. They have to prioritize them...sure.

When you let states violate the Federal laws on marijuana(no matter how asinine those laws are), seems like you are enforcing law only based on which way the political winds might be blowing. Same with DOMA. It's right in your face and you decide not to enforce it?

Technically and legally, the Feds can come straight into Colorado and Washington and arrest everyone involved with the purchase, sale, use or possession of marijuana. This is like having an ordinance from 100 years ago that you can't spit on a sidewalk on a Sunday. Stupid? Yes? Reality...also yes.

They can't have those kind of powers to shut everything down on a usually political whim. Repeal all the archaic drug laws FIRST and then start the legalization process, not the other way around which is now being attempted. "We are a nation of laws" Obama once stated.......what a laugher as then a bunch of illegals 2 years later came pouring through and he wants to legalize a few million already here. Idiot.

PTC Observer
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NUK_1 - Ignoring law

I fear we haven't seen anything yet, with his pen and cell phone Mr. Obama will "legalize" half, if not more of the illegals in this country and hope that the conservatives come after him. He wins through executive order by controlling the real power in this country, the bureaucracy. The opposition loses because they are the "bad guys" for wanting to enforce law.

WE all lose because we have lost our country. We have two more years of this and Congress be damned.

NUK_1
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Laws and Progressive facists, it's a tragedy

I'm a Libertarian and support the legalization of ALL drugs, not just marijuana, but there is a way to do this without violating Federal law that scumbag Eric Holder decides to not enforce or Obama's complete incompetence.
How can you look the other way and decide which laws are "OK" and which are "bad?" Easy if you're a progressive stuck in the ends-justifies-the-means BS.

It's real obvious that in Colorado and now Washington state, federal law is now being violated daily. Yet, didn't this country swear in a President who took an oath to follow those laws? Same with Eric Holder, the worst and most partisan lowlife that ever held the AG position, and there has been some really bad ones preceding him.

You know, try repealing the federal laws first and then giving the OK for legal marijuana in the first place, duh. ALso, try not violating the Constitution over and over again. Non-recess appointments? Assassinating American citizens? Releasing terrorists from Gitmo with no notification? Changes to actual Obamacare law without it being approved by anyone, especially the court system where Obama keeps getting beat-down over and over and doesn't care? Oh....wait...."Congress won't do anything!" THEY DON'T HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING FOR YOU THAT YOU WANT. DUH, again.

Our Founding Fathers set the government up basically to always be in conflict with each power. They didn't set it up for some half-wit to become dictator and impose his views no matter what the other branches thought.

Obama could burn his kids with lit cigarettes and the "progressives" would defend him by saying "it's the obstructionists in the Republican Party that caused this!" I can just see Debbie Ditzbag Wasserman-Shultz all over the media with that.

I think Terry Garlock is on to something with a "divorce."

thcomments
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Half-wit ....

is giving him too much credit.

Cyclist
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Good Gawd NUK

A half-wit…I'm shocked!! :-)

Davids mom
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Nuk 1
Quote:

I'm a Libertarian

We know, we know.

G35 Dude
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PTCO & AHG

And if the powers that be want a new law our Emperor will just use his pen and his phone to create one.

PTC Observer
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AHG - Selective Law Enforcement

You are so correct on this.

We simply won't have effective law enforcement until the socialists are removed and their philosophy is put into the "waste bin of history". I am thinking that it may be too late because we have so many dependent on the government dole, but who knows? Miracles do happen.

BTW, did you read that people are using food stamps to by Pot in Colorado? "Brave New World" stuff, that. Keep them drugged and happy.

MYTMITE
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What ALL of our leaders should do is show some leadership.

This influx should have been sent back from the very beginning. Why are we just learning about this now? Why does the media insist on making this look like thousands of little children risking their lives by themselves when in fact and truth, most of them are accompanied by mothers or other relatives? Why are our border guards made to stand there and watch all these women, children and older young people just step across the border? Sometime ago we should have sent our national guard to aid in this action. We sent our national guard troops to other countries to protect their borders and to fight their battles, why can we not use them here where they are supposed to protect our country? We have become such bleeding hearts that we cannot see what is happening to our country. So many people keep referring to the fact that we have always taken in immigrants. Yes, we have taken in 'immingrants' in the past, with them coming in orderly fashion, being checked for communicable diseases ( and no being allowed to enter if they were infected) and they were not immediately put on the dole. No other country that I know of has such a lax immigration policy. Just try to move to Mexico and buy property. You can lease property for years but as a non-citizen you cannot own property in Mexico, much less become a Mexican citizen. It takes years and years to immigrate to Australia and during those years you must show you will not be a financial burden, that you are of good character and that you have enough money to take care of yourself and your family, and often after spending years supplying them with all the needed materials from your city, state and federal government regarding your character, etc you still are not allowed to migrate there.

If all of our leaders would stop worrying about the next election or their next vacation and do what they are supposed to do we would not be in this situation. We have a president who thinks he is our anointed king, senators and congressmen who are only worried about making their backers happy and a country that is much too complacent--all things that spell disaster. To many want to keep thinking that we are such a strong nation that we can withstand anything. Just study your history and see what has happened to great nations in the past. And history does have a way of repeating itself.

Cyclist
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Wow what a shocker!!!!

Migrant children are no-shows at Dallas immigration hearings.

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/metro/20140722-migrant-children-are-no-sh...

Davids mom
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Cyclist

These children and their families have been 'schooled' on our antiquated immigration policy, and are taking advantage of our 'leaders' (Congress)lack of action. Do we ignore our written law to deal with this situation ?

brooksdad
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deal with this situation ?

We do not have to ignore any law to secure the border, yes and with force. Our idiotic border (really) patrol is turning their heads (as directed by the WH) while the youthful invaders are being recruited by MS-13 and other gangs. Not to mention they are for certain future libtards. BTW I like your new word "liberak"..new term for followers of the liar in chief.

Also, would you please consider staying out on the left coast? Sounds like you are having a delightful time with your closest family and friends. I'm sure enough of us here on the blog will come together peacefully and agreeably and take care of your interests in Fayette. Why, we might even see a worth while cause that would require us to divide and redistribute your hard earned assets, to give a few others a much needed hand...certainly you would not object?

Davids mom
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Brooksdad

Separation rather than cooperation. Doesn't say much for a united nation. The enemy is achieving its goal. Not even discussing an opposite point of view was not the goal of our form of government.

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DM, what you have missed from the . . .

. . . beginning of this thread almost a week ago is this important fact. Now is not the time to start discussions, liberals have refused to listen to any arguments over the past 60 years on practical limits to government largess as programs and entitlements have piled one on top of the other, rendering our country a fiscal catastrophe. I include George W Bush in the guilty liberal category when he teamed up with Ted Kennedy to push through a new entitlement to govt paid prescription drugs. And while we piled on all these feel-good programs, we have been borrowing 40 cents of every dollar we spent, a nightmare of goliath proportions we are heaping onto our kids.

Liberals have not only destroyed any fiscal order in America, they have compromised any sense of duty or responsibility in generations that now believe government is the answer to any problem.

The time for talking was long in the past. I believe inevitably we need two separate countries. Ultimately, it may very well happen. No need to quibble over mechanics - it will be very ugly if it comes. Just my prognostication.

I think you are a good lady with a big heart, and I like you. That doesn't change the facts as I see them.
Terry Garlock

Davids mom
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Mr. Garlock

Thanks for continuing to share your opinion. I will continue to share mine. Years ago our enemies stated that we would destroy ourselves. When we stop listening to one another; working together; respecting our unique differences, we will be destroyed. The schism in the Republican Party shows that not all conservatives are willing to give up on including minorities, women, and those who have different ideas regarding the solution to our social problems. Obviously not all proposed conservative plans have stopped the deficit spending, improved our relations with other inhabitants on the globe, brought safety and peace to our country. A high school debate class could agree on some implementation of processes to help the American people. Our Congress does not have this ability evidently because of constiuents who have given up on the American traditional governance. My way or the highway is a loser in national elections. Separating into two countries is just what Putin wants. The United States will no longer be united. There are no simple answers to this problem. We must have a sound financial base - and we must be willing to sacrifice to achieve this. Not cooperating and diminishing our power is not the way to achieve. What will you do if your wonderful daughters don't agree with you? Will they have to live in the Conservative country or the United States ? They will choose to stay with their mother and father of course, but they may not agree with all of your positions. Will you discuss this with them? Will you search for a solution that will keep your family (country) together?

Cyclist
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Hey there DM

Is it such a slow day that you are responding to a three-day old post????

Schooled??? They all know that once they cross the border they can simply go off the "grid"; you know, the same thing that Obama's uncle and late aunt did.

BTW, have you read the proposed Senate immigration bill? Did you see the "voted unlawfully" provision that disqualifies an individual from participating in the process. Gee, I wonder why that was needed.

moelarrycurly
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Oh Cy...Barry is about to

legalize as many as 5 MILLION illegal immigrant parents of U.S. born children out of 11 million who have entered the country without LEGAL AUTHORIZATION OR OVERSTAYED THEIR VISAS. USING........EXECUTIVE ACTION.

Read below:

http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2014/07/president_ma...

What inquiring minds want to know....will he do it before Congress leaves on Thursday for their 5 week vacay or will he wait till he leaves for his 2 week vacay on Martha's Vineayard a week after Congress leaves?

Davids mom
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Cy

Out of town enjoying the good weather in LA. . . . and sharing the wisdom of southern conservatives with some other Americans.

Cyclist
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DM - Good Weather in LA

Did you get out to the Valencia area?

Wisdom of southern conservatives……that's interesting. I find a lot folks throughout the US and outside of the US that share those same conservative values.

Davids mom
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Cyclist

Valencia - not this time around. Enjoyed the ocean breezes and family. Many citizens see the wisdom in conservative ideals. It is the perception that some southern conservatives want to limit the freedom guaranteed by citizenship. Old America is not a welcomed thought to minorities, women, etc. The split in the Republican Party at this time is not doing much to change that perception. Action rather than cash may change that perception. Appealing to a return to the past is a turn off. Southern hospitality; a reasonable daily pace, great neighbors is HOME.

moelarrycurly
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Just a hop skip and a jump

after the big soiree....

http://www.fcnaacp.org/pop1.htm

Davids mom
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Ever vigilant

http://newamericamedia.org/2012/05/hate-groups-rise-against-blacks-obama...

These guys are not far away. Some even post on The Citizen.

PTC Observer
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DM - Indeed not far away at all

"California leads the nation with 84 hate groups." No doubt most of these are located in Southern California?

I may disagree with what you say, but I will fight to the death for your Right to say it.

Finally, here's another link to The New America Media, listen to the Audio Link on the 2nd Amendment. This is the real problem with progressive America, listen to the entire "Support for the Police State" audio and consider the impact of public schools on our society.

http://www.thenewamericanmedia.com/category/2nd-amendment/

Davids mom
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PTCO

Check out the map.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/hate-map

What a shame that we have so many in our country. In Cali'fornia the skin heads are very apparent - but they stay out of the way of the residents of previously lawfully segregated neighborhoods. Your point?

Davids mom
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Deleted by poster

.

MYTMITE
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And so it begins. Anyone want to bet that most of them will

never show?

Davids mom
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Mr. Garlock
Quote:

For two reasons I would guess the people who really need to see the film, like Democrat voters, were not there, first because the subject matter was pro-America and second because at the end of the film patrons broke into spontaneous applause. I felt the warm comfort of camaraderie with countrymen.

What a self-righteous, sanctimonious attitude to express that only Republicans love OUR country! My forefathers and their sons and daughters have sacrificed for the freedoms we all enjoy since before the Revolutionary War! On Memorial Day, we honor our relatives lost in the Revolutionary War, The Alamo, WWI, WWII, Korea, Viet Nam, Iraq, Afghanistan , The Civil Rights Movement, and the urban streets of America. We both have traveled extensively on this globe. Why do you feel that a Democrat is less likely to be grateful to return home to OUR country than a Republican?

Quote:

Remember the Obama Administration resisting tough action on Iran while negotiating limits on their nuclear program? The American State Department and White House seem to be the only ones left on the planet who actually believe the Iranians are acting in good faith. The rest of us realize they continue to hurry along their surreptitious nuclear weapon development program while engaging in delays and pretending to negotiate.
Meanwhile, President Obama gave Russia’s Putin another impotent tongue-lashing for blowing nearly 300 civilians out of the Ukrainian sky, but cautioned we must not get out ahead of the facts, an excuse for inaction he has already worn out.

We are a country of law. What do you propose? Send in our youth and our bombs before we attempt diplomacy - and prove to the rest of the world that we 're still 'westerners' who shoot first before we have the facts?

Quote:

That means the Democrats set up Obama to blame George W. Bush, but it’s another Democrat lie, folks. Did you notice the flood didn’t start following that 2008 law?

Have you noticed the Guatemalan community in Marrietta? I guess not. Or the over 700,000 students in LA - the majority Hispanic and Korean? You have got to extend your research beyond Fox News and the world as purchased by the Koch brothers. The 'flood' has been crossing our borders long, long before 2008. Obama caught them. Under his administration, more illegals have been deported than ever before. ( Much to the distress of those who hire illegals)

Thank you for sharing your opinion. This is one Democrat who loves OUR country and long for the leadership in both parties that will return to courageous cooperation that benefits the American people.

brooksdad
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DM...you forgot to add

to your comment about prezbo the adjective "liar". He is in another world, has no clue, is no sort of leader of anything. He is such a blow hard. Enough already. Close the damn border. How hard is that? It is certainly within the law. Bring in the guard, set up sharpshooters to take out a few "coyetes", send some invaders/future Democratic voters back into the Rio Grande for a swim and then maybe some of them will take note. DM, I know it is beyond your comprehension, but this is a matter of national security, and should be dealt with as such. If their families back home found out their counterparts were apprehended and incarcerated (for illegally crossing our sovereign border), and maybe forced to build a large fence while here, before being sent back, maybe others would reconsider.

This is the kind of mess many americans are growing weary of. Perhaps someone in congress will grow a pair and bring articles of impeachment against lying Barry (yes he has committed many impeachable offenses and should be removed from office).

Davids mom
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Lie?
Quote:

The 'flood' has been crossing our borders long, long before 2008. Obama caught them.

Is this a lie? President Bush saw the fallacies in our immigration law, and submitted a plan for reform. The businesses that hired illegals rather than pay an American a living 'minimum' wage lobbied against this plan. R and/or D is not the issue, it's profit!!

G35 Dude
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brooksdad- R or D means more than A.

I do believe that there is more reason to impeach Obama than any other President in history. The problem is that we the American people have allowed our political system to evolve into one where the "R" or the "D" mean more than "A". (American) You hear talk of impeachment "IF" the "R"'s win in November. I think that is sad. I don't always feel that the candidate of one party is better than that of the other but we've reached a point where if you split your vote between the parties then nothing is accomplished.

I agree with Mr Garlock that America needs a divorce. There is no way for the two sides to both be happy under one rule.

Davids mom
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A question
Quote:

I agree with Mr Garlock that America needs a divorce. There is no way for the two sides to both be happy under one rule.

Who are we divorcing and what are the consequences of this divorce? Who rules after the divorce and how is the property split?

G35 Dude
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DM-Mediation
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Who are we divorcing and what are the consequences of this divorce? Who rules after the divorce and how is the property split?

If you read Mr Garlock's article you'll know the answers to those questions. Or at least his suggestions. As with any divorce there'd be mediation. I do believe that we as a country have reached a point where it's impossible for the Liberal/Democrats and the Conservative/Republicans to live happily under one ruler. You guys can keep Obama as your leader and we'll elect our own. But I also understand why the Lib's want the Conservatives' to stay. How can you tax and take from someone after they're gone?

Davids mom
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G35 - Mr Garlock's suggestions
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Please leave Fox News but take the rest of the news media because we have to rebuild that from scratch. Will you also please take the liberal third of elected Republicans with you because they are Democrat Lite and more closely aligned with you?

You can have the school system, it is too far gone for us to salvage. We’ll start over with basics and a focus on American history taught with a love of liberty and capitalism. We’ll give teachers disciplinary authority and require parents to help maintain discipline.

Please take the EPA, Dept. of Labor, Commerce, IRS and the rest of the bloated Executive branch. We’ll start over lean and mean and will require significant regulations to be blessed by Congress. Good luck with all those deeply entrenched federal union employees.

No need to talk about who gets the guns; they will naturally end up on our side.

An immediate split is best, I think. Without conservatives like me to slow you down, you can gorge yourself on government. Without the interference of you liberals, we conservatives could start over with the original Constitution and actually follow its design to keep the fed small and states strong. I would suggest we call ourselves “Old America” and you could use “New America.”

You and I could remain friends and the distance might be really good for our relationship. You could visit us here in Old America, and I’d love to update you on how the Constitution is working for us, but please be sure to obey all the border rules since our guards will be armed and trained to kill to secure our border.

Since Old America is dissatisfied, you leave (split), but leave our farmers with their federal subsidies, leave our world reknown institutions of higher learning for the use of the citizens of New America ( since our class sizes will be smaller and we will be able to keep our outstanding teachers ( better working facilities, pay benefits), Under the Constitution, you would lose citizenship, so you would have to write your own governing document. You would not be able to use any of our taxes for support, just your own in order to provide the services that you have become accustomed to; you would have to provide your own military for protection; I could go on and on. Bye!

On the other hand, I believe that the New America will see the fallacy of this political power game and what it is doing to our great country, and will sit down and follow the example of our founding fathers and work together to solve our problems using the good practices of both liberal and conservative thought .

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How can you tax and take from someone after they're gone?

Well, maybe the deficit would be split, and you would be taxed for your half. Our tax would be lower. You would have to rent existing schools, hospitals, etc., until you could build your own using your taxes. It will take conservative leadership to achieve your goals and you have a monopoly on leadership ability, just problems getting them elected on a national level. Wouldn't it be more expedient to work together to rebuild, rather then walking away? The New America is ready to rebuild.

G35 Dude
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DM-Your response proves my point

The fact that you/liberals believe that everything is yours and nothing is ours speaks volumes about what I'm trying to say. But of course since you're in charge (at least in your mind) you can decide to split the deficit and not the land and material possessions. LOL If you/liberals were fair minded you'd realize that any divorce is a 50/50 split. But if you were fair minded a split would not be necessary.

A good analogy here would be the abusive husband telling the victimized spouse that if you want to leave there's the door, but I'm not letting you take anything with you. LOL As if that is really his decision to make.

Davids mom
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Really?

Share with us how the divorce could be manifested fairly. Everything is OURS! (Citizens of the US). You can only take what you support. You must support your own highway system, or rent from us; your own schools; etc. do you really think you can walk away from this mess and use OUR money to rebuild? If you're not willing to cooperate, use your money to build your own conservative government. The country belongs to the citizens, not those who abandon the ship after their philosophy of trickle down economics failed. Everything belongs to the citizens of the United States. You leave, form your own government - you are no longer citizens. Get it? You no longer need the bleeding heart liberals! You have the Koch brothers. They can be your financial institution.

PTC Observer
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Force - DM

"Everything belongs to the citizens of the United States."

Collectively I suppose??

Davids mom
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Citizenship-G35/PTCO

Citizens, like the south attempted, give up their citizenship. Where will conservatives establish 'their' country? Please let us know. Will 'liberals' be excluded? Will they be able to keep their property? Inquiring minds want to know. PTCO - collectivism ? Really? I don't think this African American/Democrat will ever support that. I have been to Cuba. Glad to come HOME! Still believe in the American way-as long as there is equal opportunity for all!

G35 Dude
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PTCO-DM is all powerful

If you're a conservative then DM revokes your citizenship. She has that power you know. So she can decide that conservatives leave with nothing. And yet she can't see why a conservative would want a divorce from people with this type attitude.

Davids mom
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G35

Did you read Mr Garlock's 'dream'? I reposted it for you. Conservatives and Liberals supposedly can't live together-therefore Conservatives and Liberaks separate, conservatives live under their own government. Is this what you understand from Mr Garlock's dream? Liberals will stick to the US Constitution !

G35 Dude
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DM-That is good news
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Liberals will stick to the US Constitution !

That would be great. When do you plan to start?

MYTMITE
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G3dude, brooksdad et al.

I doubt if we would ever see President Obama impeached. This country has become so politically correct and so wishy washy that I doubt it would ever be attempted. There will be some on here to shout racist when they read this but that is exactly the reason Obama will not be brought up on impeachment charges-the first thing that the libs will be yelling is that it is being done because he is black and no politician wants to be involved in impeaching our first black president . That is the reason he has been able to get away with do so many things that he had no right to do as president, he has overstepped his powers more than once and done things to the detriment of our nation and nothing is done--as it is now, the minute any of his actions are criticized the race card is brougt out by the same group. I fear that our only hope is that the damage is not irreparable by the time he is out of office. I am just sorry that I have lived long enough to see what is happening to this once great country--and most of it within our own borders. God help us 'cause we sure aren't helping ourselves.

PTC Observer
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Mr. Garlock - We

We live in interesting times, the essential issue that I see deals with the United States as a debtor nation. Our debt has sapped not only our ability to be a force on the world stage, it has limited our ability to protect the sovereignty of the nation.

America is in decline and it is primarily due to our senseless and out of control spending. No nation, not even the USA can survive a fiscal assault on this scale. Everything else is simply a symptom of economic weakness.

Mr. Obama is a weak president, elected by a weak self severing entitled electorate, funded by political sociopaths and crony neo-capitalists serving their dishonest and dishonorable pursuit of personal wealth at any cost.

I hope to God I am wrong, but it simply may be just too late for us and our system of self governance.

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