Bubbles, booze and taxpayer questions

Scott Bradshaw's picture

The Peachtree City Council is attempting to pull another “fast one” on taxpayers. Replacing the bubble that covers the outdoor swimming pool at Kedron Fieldhouse during the winter is an issue kicked around for years with very little community support. The bubble is a desirable amenity but replacement should not be a priority when the city is facing a severe budget crunch and more possible reductions in service.

The bubble issue was not on the original published agenda for the May 5 council meeting but appeared on an amended agenda under the topic, “New Air Support Structure for Kedron.” Who would have guessed that air support structure is code for the “bubble”?

Amending public meeting agendas is legal and the city fulfilled minimum meeting disclosure requirements in this instance. The problem is that the Peachtree City Council has a tendency to wait and parachute controversial issues onto the agenda late in an effort to minimize public knowledge and discourse.

Another example of controversial issues being introduced at the last minute with little fanfare was a resolution to hold a November referendum on Sunday alcohol package sales. The issue was added to the same amended agenda for the May 5 meeting.

Council’s resolution was hurriedly passed on a 5-0 vote without one local minister or representative of the Georgia Christian Coalition being present to speak against it. The opponents of Sunday alcohol sales simply didn’t know the resolution was scheduled for a vote.

Readers should be aware that the new state law permits but does not require the council to have a vote on Sunday alcohol sales. Approving a referendum on Sunday alcohol sales is a hot potato that some council members support but don’t want to discuss publicly. There should have been considerable public input before scheduling the referendum.

The circumstances surrounding the bubble are the most disgraceful part of this story. The city staff sent out a Request for Proposal (RFP) to 10 companies for bids on installation of a new bubble. The response was stunning because only one bid was received and it was in the amount of $346,177 ... or more!

Arizon Companies, headquartered in St. Louis, submitted the proposal which included a provision that the company be awarded $6,000 to determine if the existing footings are adequate to support the new bubble. There was no discussion among council members about the company’s qualifications or ability to conduct such a study.

Our professed public servants, by a vote of 5-0, seized the opportunity to needlessly give the company $6,000 instead of hiring a structural engineer for objective advice. Mayor Don Haddix argued vehemently against replacing the bubble but voted in favor of the motion to fund the $6,000 study. Some bystanders and city staff members were puzzled.

The engineering study by the sole contract bidder can result in significantly higher costs for the bubble with no possibility of reducing the bid amount. Arizon representatives have an incentive to increase their bottom line and company control of the engineering study is like letting the fox guard the hen house. Council failed the taxpayers by not hiring an independent structural engineer to make the determination about footings.

The Arizon bid is pricey enough to warrant an extensive review to determine why Peachtree City taxpayers have been placed in a single bid situation. Can it be true, as asserted, that only three or four companies in the world are capable of installing a bubble and that none except Arizon is interested in the project?

The review should begin with an interview with the Arizon representative who once worked for the now defunct company that installed the original bubble. Taxpayers should know if he met with any city council members or had input in developing the specifications which discouraged other bidders. An opportunity for public input on the feasibility of the bubble should also be held as part of the review.

There is no evidence of council wrongdoing but the contract price, the single bidder situation and the manner in which it appeared on the meeting agenda raises enough red flags for grave concern. City staff calculated the debt service on the $352,000 loan to acquire the replacement bubble to be $45,000 per year for ten years. Most bond payments will be made by Peachtree City taxpayers long after this crowd has been voted out of office.

The City Council’s vote on the $346,177 Arizon contract is tentatively planned on May 19 unless the public steps up and bursts the bubble.

My unrelated thoughts for the month:

• God bless Navy Seal Team 6 and the entire Seal community. This Marine salutes them!

• Representative Matt Ramsey is commended for his leadership in guiding the illegal immigration bill through the legislative process. Governor Nathan Deal should sign the bill despite pressure from the Chamber of Commerce and agribusiness industry to veto it. The law is good for Georgia taxpayers!

• It is not surprising that Joey Grisham, Peachtree City’s new economic development coordinator, resigned after four months on the job. He may have been surprised to learn that he was expected to stay out of the way of the highly effective and well-funded Fayette County Development Authority which is responsible for economic development.

Grisham was relegated to helping absentee shopping center landlords fill a few storefronts. Landlord representation is not part of economic development nor is it a legitimate expenditure of taxpayer money. The young man was not well received in the community and did the right thing to resign from the dead-end job.

• Terry Garlock’s book entitled “Strength & Honor: America’s Best in Vietnam” is a brilliant compilation of the stories of American servicemen about their experiences in Vietnam. Mr. Garlock was a combat Cobra helicopter gunship pilot who nearly lost his life when shot down in Vietnam. He was recognized for heroism with a Bronze Star and Distinguished Flying Cross.

Mr. Garlock is a local resident and guest columnist for this newspaper. You can get his book by visiting the Barnes & Noble, Amazon or Books-a-million website. It is also available in some stores.

• Tip of the week: Terry Garlock is a breakfast regular at Mimi’s Good Food in Peachtree City and frequently autographs copies of his book for the public ... between courses.

Enough said!

[Scott Bradshaw, a resident of Peachtree City, is a real estate broker and residential real estate developer. He may be contacted at rand5474@bellsouth.net.]

NUK_1
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Bradshaw so wrong on alcohol referendum

"Council’s resolution was hurriedly passed on a 5-0 vote without one local minister or representative of the Georgia Christian Coalition being present to speak against it. The opponents of Sunday alcohol sales simply didn’t know the resolution was scheduled for a vote."

SO WHAT? You can't have a discussion or a vote unless the "other side" bothers to show up and gripe? It's not like the Council agendas are hidden, not posted to the website and not released to the media in accordance with the law.

After GA FINALLY got out of the dark ages and passed the Sunday sales bill and Deal signed it, the GA Christian Coalition said they were going to pick and choose which locales in GA to campaign for NO votes and ignore other areas where they know it will be passed by the voters no matter what, which they said was most of the Atlanta/suburbs areas.

Citizen_Steve
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Considerable public input

"There should have been considerable public input before scheduling the referendum."

Seems to me a referendum is the pinnacle of considerable public input. But no doubt there are those who know what's best for their fellow citizens (including the author apparently) and would like to limit the input from the public.

Throw stones all you want at council but I think on balance it's the best one we've had in many years.

Steve

roundabout
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"Considerable public input?

What good is that?

Only those effected should contact the panel and comment.

We voted them there to take care of business.

Ever notice that the only ones who show up personally are those "against."

Good TEA conversation later.

Spyglass
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I disagree totally

with your opinion about the Sunday Sales vote. It was the right thing to do. It would have been done 8 years ago with a different GA Gov in office.

I'm for the Bubble, have been. I don't move here almost 10 years ago for what PTC did NOT offer.

Had a friend recently looking for a nice rental. There is a reason you can rent a newer bigger house cheaper off of Fischer Road in Coweta County, and it's not because there is more demand.

tgarlock
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Mr. Scott Bradshaw, your ambush of kindness . . .

. . . was a pleasant surprise and Cal's plug for my new book at the bottom of my column was unexpected as well. Praise from a Marine like you is high praise, indeed, but I hasten to add that there are many people in and around Peachtree City who have done far more serving their country than I did. One you met recently was Mike King. He flew scout helicopters in Vietnam, very dangerous, and was shot down 5 times (guess he didn't learn much the first 4 times) and was awarded the Silver Star, just 2 steps away from the Medal of Honor. Skip Ragan, Wayne King, Ted Reid, Al Fitzgerald and Cliff Stern are just a few others. Among those of us who were there, what means a lot more than medals is the collective experience of serving our country under tough conditions and watching each other's back, and I think that goes for WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan as well.

My motivation to write the book was the misinformation that prevails on the Vietnam War, the truth still tangled up in myths, half-truths and political struggles, even though the truth is not all that pretty. A lot of people believe things very strongly about that war and its vets that have never been true, and those who need most to read the book will be least likely to be open-minded enough to do so. The sad irony is while the anti-war left sold their fiction on the evils of that war and our own troops, the real failings in the war went unnoticed while stupid political leadership got thousands of young Americans killed needlessly. Through it all our American troops served well just as you would expect, and I wanted to help some of them tell their story, in their words.

Mimi told me a while back that she and some customers were trying to figure out which photo is mine among those youthful pics on the front and back cover, and I told her none of them. While I was trying to finish the book my then 13-year old daughter Melanie asked me what photo I would put on the cover of the book. I showed her a pic and told her that would be one of them. She said "Dad, that's not you, who is it?" I told her it was a young Tony Armstrong. Melanie asked, "Why would you put someone else's picture on the cover of your book, Dad?" I told her, "Because this book isn't about me, Melanie, it's about all of them." Them. The finest men I have ever known, the ones who showed me by their deeds at 20 years old the real meaning of courage and loyalty and trust. I had to write about them, to try to tell it true to the few willing to listen.

Thank you, Scott, for your generous words, and for giving me this opening to tell any readers if they want a SIGNED copy of my book they can order it directly from me at www.garlock1.com This plug worked out so well that some might suspect we planned it.

pumpkin
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THANK YOU MR BRADSHAW

You make so much sense these guys are just bullies or retired idiots. Keep up your good work.

pumpkin
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I THINK YOU ARE ALL ON DRUGS OR DRINKING

Better yet, perhaps a meeting with your doctors is in order.

roundabout
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Bradshaw's Epistle!

Since I am an Independent voter I find some of what Mr. Bradshaw says to be good, but much of it wrong.

We DO NOT need a pool bubble right now or maybe ever! Patch and prop up the old one for awhile or close the place--few people use it anyway.
I'm not sure the "foundation problem" is a dangerous one. But now that these ingenious bubble installers have brought it up, we need to check it ourselves--not them for sure.
I understand where the Mayor is coming from about checking the foundation but not wanting the bubble.

As to the Sunday alcohol sales (except for clubs) being put on a referendum, I can assure you it will pass in PTC if on the ballot. When people can't get enough alcohol in six days they will pass it. I said this before when the State "punted" on it to not excite evangelicals. This is a serious vote by the Council.
By the way I am not against it! If I were against alcohol, I wouldn't want it any day of the week. I am against guzzlers.

As to the Navy successfully getting Bin Laden, the less said about that the better. I am familiar with those dudes somewhat and they would prefer not to be a target. Anyway they had enormous help that was well executed even if in a place where the military is about as competent as Kenya's!

It is hard to write a book that justifies Viet Nam except for those who obeyed their orders. Let us take care of them well including the "non-existent" agent Orange! Now the "rattled brain syndrome," by sorting out the slackers who don't have it first.

I also like Mimi's breakfast occasionally! I worry about her survival however.

Mike King
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Roundabout

"As to the Navy successfully getting Bin Laden, the less said about that the better. I am familiar with those dudes somewhat and they would prefer not to be a target. Anyway they had enormous help that was well executed even if in a place where the military is about as competent as Kenya's!"

For once we agree on something!

bad_ptc
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Booze and bible thumpers

"Council’s resolution was hurriedly passed on a 5-0 vote without one local minister or representative of the Georgia Christian Coalition being present to speak against it."

I guess it's a good thing that there were no God fearing christian citizens in attendance when that unholy vote was cast.

Perhaps you and other 'fearers of God' should organize yourselves and take turns attending each and every council meeting so nothing like can happen in the future. You and your mutawwain friends should take pictures of all who didn’t express outrage when they left the meeting so they can be taught the correct way to think at some later time.

How about this. When a local minister, representatives of the Georgia Christian Coalition or some other cult nut job starts paying property and income taxes they can have a voice how things are done. Until then, they need to just shut the hell up and let the people that do pay their taxes decide what they do or don't want from their local government.

Running the government via what some bible thumper has to say for the weak minded.

mudcat
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Thumpers don't pay taxes

Good point, bad. Not only do we have to endure the morality police telling us what to do - or not do, we have to subsidize their tax bills. I'm not even sure they should be allowed to vote in the referendum if they don't pay taxes.

PTC Observer
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Mr. Bradshaw

"Readers should be aware that the new state law permits but does not require the council to have a vote on Sunday alcohol sales. Approving a referendum on Sunday alcohol sales is a hot potato that some council members support but don’t want to discuss publicly. There should have been considerable public input before scheduling the referendum."

Isn't the ultimate public input a referendum? Why should a small group of vocal citizens stop a referendum? Don't we believe in democracy and the will of the people? ;-)

hersch22
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Referendum
PTC Observer wrote:

"Isn't the ultimate public input a referendum? Why should a small group of vocal citizens stop a referendum? Don't we believe in democracy and the will of the people? ;-)

Exactly

Robert W. Morgan
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It is not about booze, it is about shopping

More to do with shopping and scheduling. No shortage of people who work 6 days a week or have 2 jobs or simply can only do their shopping on Sunday afternoons. Go over to Sam's Club or WalMart some Sunday and count cars or people.

The right wing zealots who think they are better than everyone else and use that attitude to try and prevent the rest of us from voting on something that affects us and our community are sanctimonius fools who need to just go away or go to church or something, but stay out of the way.

Reason this is a shopping and scheduling issue is simple. Dedicated booze consumers have worked around Sunday's for years. They will buy 2 or 3 six-packs or jugs on Friday or Saturday and probably have 2 or 3 in reserve at home so they don't run out on Sunday. And sadly the extra revenue is a pipe dream for exactly that reason. Sure you'll have more sales and sales tax revenue on Sundays, but it will be at the expense of decreased revenue and taxes on Friday or Saturday.

BHH
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Also the church crowds

that frequent places after church, that are now prevented from selling alcohol on Sundays, will no longer frequent those establishments if at all possible. This will mean a loss of business for most.

It should be a judgement call for those places to decide independently whether or not to sell alcohol at any particular time. But most will only follow the what the law allows with no further scrutiny.

Dondol
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Its all about Choices

What exactly are you talking about, Restaurants already can sell Alcohol on Sunday. If they are that much of a Bible Thumper, then you not going to see them in a Liquor store anyway. Good Lord, you think that they won't buy groceries at kroger if they sell Beer on Sunday, the Horror. I hope nobody goes hungry because of this!!

BHH
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As long as it doesn't

have any effect on Zaxby's, KFC, or Wendy's then I'm good.

Thanks.

Robert W. Morgan
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Except for the fat and sodium

They have started posting those numbers on the menu boards. Read them.

Spyglass
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There are some good spots out there to eat..

No joke...

I recommend Shrimp Company right here in PTC for a nice dinner out.

BHH
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Thanks I'll try it.

My wife and I have an anniversary coming up.

I found it on line.

Joe Kawfi
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BHH

I don't recommend Shrimp Company. The food is not good and it is over-priced. Frank's at the Mill is a much better place, especially for an anniversary dinner.

Spyglass
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Well, like other things

we disagree. I've been numerous times and enjoyed it. I go at least once a month. Good music during the week too.

I haven't been to Franks @ the Mill, I prefer to dine in PTC. I have been to the Franks in Palmetto and got the toughest fattiest prime rib known to man, yet I don't come on here and say it's no good. Different strokes for different folks.

TinCan
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Kawfi re. Frank's

Went to Frank's for Mother's Day and was somewhat disappointed with the service and food temperatures. Had late reservations and wound up on second floor which may have had something to do with food being lukewarm upon arrival. Sat for around 15 or more minutes before the waiter found us which wasn't too big of a deal, but then all five courses, the supposedly hot ones of course, were only moderately warm. Let the waiter know with the first, but there was no change for the rest of the meal. Food was quite tasty and would have been outstanding had it arrived hot. Don't know if it was the distance from kitchen, the disappearing waiter, or some other reason, but it diminished a potentially great meal.

BHH
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I could really care less.

It doesn't affect me in the least.

Spyglass
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Do you really believe this?

Honestly? Seriously?

They are talking about letting stores sell "package" beer and wine and allowing Liquor Stores to be open on Sunday's IF they choose too, this would only apply to PTC City limits.

There is a HUGE church right beside a Food Lion in New Smyrna Beach. I recently bought a bottle of champagne on Sunday AM, as far as I know, nobody died of shock.

BHH
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Sorry, I don't get out much.

Especially after church on Sundays. And I almost never eat out so they don't get my money anyway.

Chris P. Bacon
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Scott Bradshaw wants SHARIA LAW in Peachtree City!!!!!!

Obviously, Scott Bradshaw is advocatin' for the dreaded SHARIA LAW in Peachtree City!

The unwashed masses cannot be expected to make the "right choice" if a referendum is on the ballot, so we must instead run this proposal by our local religious mullahs and poobahs for their wise counsel and imprimatur.

Bradshaw Ackbar!

Mike King
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Sharia Law?

Sharia Law, now that's a stretch, but I'll not question a right to one's opinion. Now regarding the unwashed masses being unable to make the "right choice", we have made very poor decisions regarding our mayors over the past ten years. Others may agree on elected officials in general, but without the evidence of history their's are but opinions as well.

Cyclist
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Mike

I'm going to Florida in a month for some much needed sand-between-the-toes time. On my first Sunday there, I will buy my cheap white wine and life will be good.

Mike King
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Cyclist

Sounds great! I have to admit that from time to time when my beer in the garage refer ran out on a Sunday, I was not a happy camper. I'll be glad when we 'adults' in Fayette County can make this decision for ourselves.

PTC Observer
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Bacon - Interesting point of

view, "The unwashed masses cannot be expected to make the "right choice"

Have you ever wondered if political elitists fall into the same category as religious zealots?

Why is it that we need the politicians to decide how we should run our lives? Do they have some vision or higher moral authority than the individual? How is it that we can "transfer" to our elected leaders rights that we as individuals don't have ourselves? I think you need to study your thinking process on this.

If you believe, correctly, it is not right for a small religious group to keep us from having a drink on Sunday. What right does the majority have to keep a single individual from making a decision about his life, as long as that decision doesn't infringe on rights of others?

You are not consistent Bacon, you simply haven't thought through your positions. However, maybe consistency is not important to you.

Chris P. Bacon
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"Inconsistent"? Au contraire, Petey C!

I don't think my positions are inconsistent at all!

I simply recognize that one of the functions of government is to make certain decisions on behalf of everyone for everyone's mutual benefit. I see no reason to have a referendum for things such as placement of stop signs or traffic lights, or to determine what the speed limit should be on a given stretch of road.

(As an aside, I envision you waking up each morning with a curse on your lips for the government, an entity that curtails your God-given "inalienable right" to drive on the left side of the road. But I digress....)

Where I do draw the line, and please note it's a very consistent line, is when religious types attempt to use the force of law to dictate their religious decrees. I do not want the religious beliefs of Mullah Omar, Archbishop Epps and/or Taliban Trey Hoffman enshrined in law, regardless of their quote good intent unquote.

I hope this clears up your misunderstanding.

Ninja Guy
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Based on What I Have Seen

around the world, the unwashed masses ARE basically incapable of making the right choice in many cases due to ignorance, improper education, hunger, parasites, disease, etc. No, politicians do not have a higher moral authority, moral responsibility perhaps, which may elevate their moral authority, unless they are Lee Hearn. But, I would wager that most, but not all, politicians do have a better vision of the needs of the community than the unwashed masses. The unwashed masses gave us Riverdale, while the elite gave us PTC! I am leaning strongly against the notion of free will for a good portion of the people.

I think George C. Licthenberg said it best when he said

"Man is a masterpiece of creation if for no other reason than that, all the weight of evidence for determinism notwithstanding, he believes he has free will."

roundabout
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Who should vote?

Riverdale is unwashed and PTC is elite! The "benchmarks."

All Christians should be Jews since Jesus was one!

All voters should have a Harvard Education.

All people with little money should not vote.

Bill Gates and the rest in his league should get more than one vote.

All voters should have a long birth certificate, original only.

Bowing, scraping and groveling should be required for poor people.

Johnny-come-lately millionaires like Sarah, would only get one vote--in Alaska only.

PTC Observer
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Ninja & Bacon

If I take you at your word that politicians have "better vision of the needs of the community than the unwashed masses" your basic belief is that those elected by the masses that can't control their lives because they need help from a higher power, can elect those that might just happen to be equally ignorant, uneducated, and unable to lead them.

Then by the miracle of an election they then have the "vision" to take care of us all. Not that they have a higher moral code, or that they understand economics, or that they are great military strategist but that they were elected. This somehow transforms them from one of millions of their humble unwashed electors. Or is it simply that it is not the masses that elect them at all but special interests that use the system for their own personal gain? Perhaps this is what you mean, that we shouldn’t change the system because it might disrupt the unholy alliance of politicians, unions and neo-capitalists, those that are enriching themselves at our expense.

The moment that government stops protecting individual rights and starts regulating lives and property, at that moment the government become illegitimate of its original purpose and it is corrupted. I don’t curse the government, I curse what it has become and mourn the loss of what we had at our founding.

You are both conservatives, you like things just the way they are. You have no ideas on how to improve the situation beyond maintaining the status quo. You both think things are “just right”. I think you are just wrong.

Ninja Guy
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PTCO, You Have A Point

but its wrong. I used to give the same argument back when I was into Luddy and the gang! But, here is how life REALLY works. Elected officials have a better understanding of what the community needs because being in that position FORCES them to, whether they were ready for the task before the election or not! Now, you will have your share of dunces, no-gooders, thieves, etc., but for the most part those we elect will do their best or semi-best to do their job of making rules and budgets for the community, state, nation, etc., leaving the rest of us to do our jobs, play golf, go fishing, watch NASCAR, shoot wildlife, or otherwise live our lives as predetermined by our birth circumstances. This is no different from corporate officials who run companies on the behalf of shareholders. Now, these corporate officials have their share of no-gooders, thieves, etc., but for the most part those the shareholders elect will do they best they can to enrich themselves and hopefully the shareholders too, lest they be removed by angry hedge fund shareholders or arrested for wire/mail fraud or obstruction of justice!

Now, you can pine away for resetting the clock back to the time the Constitution was adopted like some kind of semi-affluent suburban Pol Pot, but in my experience such disruptions in the social fabric ain't much fun for nobody!

You see, PTCO, civilizations have a kind of inertia--once they are moving in a certain direction, its kind of hard to stop. In the US, we have mainly good inertia. In Haiti and other such places, bad inertia. Now, how did we get the good inertia and Haiti get the bad inertia, well that's a post for another day. I'm kind of upset that BOTH the Braves and Hawks lost last night!

PTC Observer
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Ninja - Forced

How do you force someone to be intelligent?

The fact is Ninja it is you that has a problem with reality, if you really think the government is working well then you must have some interest in it continuing the way it is. I don’t know what it is but you do. Now you can say that government is doing a good job and you want to keep things pretty much the way they are and if it were only you paying for it, I would agree. However, it is not just you that is paying for our government. There are a vast number of people just like me that are fed up with government and its wasteful, corrupt and intrusive ways.

You say that “This is no different from corporate officials who run companies….” , but this is not true. Corporate managers are judged on results (profits) and if the results are poor they lose their jobs, not so in government. If government does a poor job, it is rewarded with more money, even if the money is not there.

I do agree with you on your statement that, “civilizations have a kind of inertia--once they are moving in a certain direction, its (sic) kind of hard to stop” This is a very true statement our inertia in the United States started during the turn of the 19th Century, and in 1912 the Progressives (Socialists) took over the government and the nation. It was a period that ushered in progressive income taxation, direct election of Senators, prohibition, and eventually fascism. Our inertia toward socialist principles has continued unabated, this is true.

Your insult comparing the Founders to the mass murderer Pol Pot, simply illustrates the nature of the kind of threat we have from people of your ilk. You hold nothing sacred, you diminish the heritage that you enjoy in this country based upon principles left by them. It is you and people like you that support the notion that the State is supreme over the individual.

You do not insult me sir, you insult all those like me that read your words here.

You reveal your character to all.

I think Samual Johnson said it best:

"Integrity without knowledge is weak and useless, and knowledge without integrity is dangerous and dreadful."

Ninja Guy
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PTCO, Yes I Am Well Aware

of the usual response from the Luddy's. I used to give the same answers myself! If fact, I probably uttered the same words hundreds of times in defense of Luddy and the gang! Then, I grew up! And I stopped watching TV, except for the Super Bowl and a few other important sporting events! I didn't say that government is doing a good job, I said it was doing a good enough job. Whether it goes more conservative or more progressive--I don't really care. As a Ninja, I can pick and choose where I live around the world! I am a true libertarian in that sense! No borders for the Ninja! But PTC is a great place, second only to perhaps Paris or Barcelona! No, I don't diminish the heritage of the US, I just don't idolize it! Plus, those ideas were from more than 200 years ago. Don't you think we've learned a bit more since then? Sorry to get you all riled up before bedtime! I know your mom makes you go to sleep early on school nights!

Go Braves!

PTC Observer
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Ninja - Ideas

"Plus, those ideas were from more than 200 years ago."

Another true statement, but ideas that are based on something more than "vision" of how things should be and how they actually are still have relevance today, and they will until the end of time. The truth of human nature will never change. The central ideas that we own our lives, that we are free, and our property is the outcome of both is truth. That government, our government, was established to protect these ideas, not to infringe them is a fact. You and your family enjoy the product of these ideas.

I am not riled up, I am simply stating facts. You reveal your nature in how you handle yourself on these pages. I am certain that if your neighbors and business associates knew what you put down here, you would in fact need to move to Paris. There your philosophy would be more at home with your surroundings.

WakeUp
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Laughable
Ninja Guy wrote:

But, here is how life REALLY works. Elected officials have a better understanding of what the community needs because being in that position FORCES them to, whether they were ready for the task before the election or not!

The light comes on the day a politician enters office? Wow, if I knew that the only way to enlightenment was via politics, I would have avoided work a long time ago.

Ninja Guy
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Wake Up WakeUP!

No, the light doesn't come on when a politician enters office, just as the mommy or daddy light does not come on when the baby pops out. Unless you run away from your responsibilities as a parent, you learn to be a father because you are FACED with that task! Just as every parent is not June or Ward Clever, not every politician is a (choose your favorite)! But, because they are faced with the task of doing what they were elected to do, they generally get up to speed, just like regular people do in their jobs. Where you the best whatever you are the minute you walked in the door? If not, then you were forced to get up to speed pretty quick, right? Politicians are just people, with all their strengths and weakness. Some do good, some do bad, but basically they do okay, most of the time, just like 95% of the population.

Come On Hawks!

WakeUp
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I am wide awake
Ninja Guy wrote:

Elected officials have a better understanding of what the community needs...

My point was and is that elected officials are not better at knowing what is needed, they only have the responsibility. How do part time politicians "get up to speed"? The reality is they very seldom do; they vote for and work towards changes using what they already know or personally want.

Ninja Guy
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My Point Is

that the responsibility forces elected officials, full or part-time, to get up to speed as best they can. Not many politicians want to look like nitwits in public, well except for Chief Haddix and Lee 'Church Guy' Hearn.

Also, there are some safeguards in place to keep them from running totally wild with their own agendas. However, I do sometimes wonder if part-time politicians can ever do a really good job. Good enough perhaps, but really good, I don't know.

Perhaps it would be better to subcontract out ALL city/county services to professional city management firms with oversight by a board of directors type arrangement.

BHH
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Ninja, I sometimes admire your perspective.

"or otherwise live our lives as predetermined by our birth circumstances."

Very keen.

"You see, PTCO, civilizations have a kind of inertia--once they are moving in a certain direction, its kind of hard to stop."

The old pendulum theory in action also means once it stops it usually starts moving in the opposite direction to an extent that you wish it would again stop. And so on.

Ninja Guy
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BHH, Thanks For Your

comments! I don't know much about the pendulum theory, so perhaps I can be credited with rediscovering it, for the 20,000th time! I could be the Ramanujan of Anthropology!

Now, having pondered this for at least 15 minutes, I do think industrialized nations have reached the point where the pendulum will not swing too far the other way for several of reasons.

One, mass education, or education of the masses, has made most everyone realize that it is not really a great thing to go all Visi-goth and sack the city or neighborhood, except for when the Pistons win the NBA championship.

Two, perhaps the existence of nuclear weapons prevents and will continue to prevent the large-scale wars that typically send the pendulum swinging the other way. But, I do fear that sometime, somewhere some yahoo will get his hands on a nuke and want to see what it will do--just like a monster truck sitting in the driveway, just for show competitions, ya know, wink wink.

Third, we have conquered most deadly diseases that wipe out or drastically weaken advanced civilizations, at least for the time being.

Fourth, people in industrialized nations are not very superstitious and rely for on logic to a certain degree, except for Sugarfoot, recent immigrants from lesser-developed nations, and residents of the Inman community.

Fifth, it takes a really long time to read and comprehend the writings of Ludwig von Mises, so people bent on resetting the clock to zero, ie, Constitution Signing Day, are tied up reading for a good portion of their lives, preventing them from getting out much and and doing much harm!

Amen I say to you good Day brother BHH!

Go Hawks, you can do it!

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