Taxes and the meaning of Obama’s ‘shared sacrifice’

Lance McMillian's picture

President Obama is right. When he talks about the “Bush tax cuts,” the President bemoans the fact that these cuts inequitably distribute the tax burden among Americans. Instead of this inequality, he argues that we need to return to tax rates that promote “shared sacrifice” and ensure that all of us pay our “fair share” of earnings to the federal government. True enough.

But President Obama is not right in the way he thinks he is right. When the President speaks of “shared sacrifice,” he means that “the rich” do not pull their weight and keep too much of their money for themselves rather than sending it to the government for the common good.

The actual facts about the Bush tax cuts, however, paint a startlingly different picture than the one the President articulates in his speeches. The cuts apply to all American income-earners and remove millions and millions from the obligation of paying any income taxes.

Indeed, half of Americans now pay no federal income taxes at all. Additionally, through the earned income credit, 30 percent of Americans receive tax refunds for taxes they do not even pay.

So who, then, is paying taxes to the federal government? The rich. In everyday terms, “fair share” would mean a rough equivalency between the percentage of taxes paid and the percentage of income earned. Based on this definition, the rich do not pay their fair share. They pay far more.

Here are the numbers: The top 1 percent earn 19 percent of the income but pay 38 percent of the taxes. The top 5 percent earn 33 percent of the income but pay 57 percent of the taxes. The top 25 percent earn 66 percent of the income but pay 85 percent of the taxes.

These figures show two things. First, the top income earners pay a disproportionately high share of all income taxes. Second, the higher up on the income ladder one goes, the greater the share of all income taxes that person pays.

To hear President Obama tell it, however, high-income earners pay hardly anything in taxes while those on the lower end of the economic spectrum are forced to carry the burden for all of us. As the facts bear out, the reality is exactly the opposite.

Now it may very well be that our present inequitable system of making high-income earners pay a higher proportion in taxes than they earn in income is sound public policy. That is a different debate for another time. The point here is that the President’s rhetoric is totally divorced from the truth and highlights the hollowness of his platitudes on this issue.

Does a call for “shared sacrifice” have any real meaning when the President directs his ire toward those who already pay twice their pro rata share in taxes and yet leaves other income earners who pay nothing untouched? How much more do the rich have to pay to reach their “fair share”?

President Obama’s deception goes deeper still when he blames our debt problem on a small minority of citizens holding the country “hostage” by refusing to raise taxes on the rich. Not so.

The top federal income tax bracket now sits at 35 percent. Even if we doubled this rate to 70 percent, the United States would still have roughly a trillion-dollar deficit. That’s trillion with a “t.”

Taxes aren’t the problem; spending is. Why then the unrelenting focus on taxing the rich?

Not because of economic policy. Rather, the push for tax increases on the rich is philosophical, primal even. The prevailing mindset of the American Left is that success is the product of fortuity, not achievement. If fate determines income, as this viewpoint believes, then the rich have no moral claim to the money they earn.

This line of thinking is the path to financial misery. All of us should take heed of the writer Robert Heinlein’s warning that the standard of living to which we in America are accustomed is not the natural state of the world:

“Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.

This is known as ‘bad luck.’”

Heinlein is kidding at the end, of course. Bad luck has nothing to do with it. Punishing success is a choice.

It is also economic suicide — for the rich, poor, and middle-class alike.

[Lance McMillian is a Fayette County resident and law professor at Atlanta’s John Marshall Law School.]

PTC Observer
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Git Real - DM

If it wasn't coming from the pen of DM, I would actually be offended.

You seem to have captured the salient points of the correct argument, however I doubt that will change a whole lot from those with the mindset of a DM.

There are many, many blacks that have the same mindset. DM while you are in DC this week consider this quote and decided what it is that divides us. Then search your own heart. Maybe we'll bump into each other?

"Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true."

Martin Luther King, Jr., Strength To Love, 1963.

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PTCO

How can you come to this momentous occasion and be so concerned with hate. I don't hate you or anyone else when my heart and soul is so filled with gratitude and love for MLK. I haven't met anyone here this week who has even mentioned the word 'hate'. We're expressing love for him and one another. Enjoy.

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DM - But when

But when you write "We're expressing love for him and one another." based on everything you have written here, we all know you don't include "white males" and maybe even "white people" in this all consuming love.

Doctor King would be directing his words directly at you and people like you. Hate breeds hate, focusing your entire world around race breeds hate and separates us as a people. It is about the content of our character Mom, not the color of our skin. The content of our character.

The moment you actually believe this, is the moment you turn a corner. We who believed in Dr. King's message, fought for it, would or could not support people with your views, positions, and obsession.

However, we all rejoice in this great man being honored by all America this weekend. I knew as many did that this day would come.

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PTOC

Please show me my words that say I 'hate' all white males. Thanks. (But not today - we're having lunch with friends from California.. (Four are 'white' males)

I don't believe you're here and still consumed with this 'hate' thing. Shared this conversation with friends - and they doubt that you are here also. Too much kove being expresed today. I LOVE YOU PTCO!! : -)

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Git, OOU, PTCO

You go too far when intimidated!
You can not hope to win such a verbal battle with as many invectives as you produce against someone you don't even know.

This is an individual that you criticize, not a whole race.

Now, I too have trouble communicating with this person. So many of their responses avoid the point in contention in order to make up for obvious mistakes or misunderstandings.

Their theory that they must be catered to as individuals as they sometimes are as a group IMO is hindering their advances.
In other words they do have a chip on their shoulder and don't try to keep it from being knocked off. I'm speaking as to the majority, not the individual.

This person feels compelled to defend the people who are lackadaisical and non-caring due to their heritage or circumstances.

Yet you make it much worse to ever have an understanding with this person by such arguments that you make here.

You must have similar problems with other races in your business--how much different do you handle that?

Davids mom
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Roundabout
Quote:

This person feels compelled to defend the people who are lackadaisical and non-caring due to their heritage or circumstances.

WHAT?

I, Davids Mom, have spent my life educating people, regardless of color, to drop lacadaisical behavior and to care for all. I have also taught people to be proud of their heritage and to rise above unfortunate circumstances. I have found that in the United States - this education can be shared from the streets of Watts to the backroads of Georgia; from the beaches of California to the mountains of Virginia or Tennessee. The color of the person is of little consequence in 2011 - it's a change of behavior that involves the mind and spirit of the individual that is needed. I admit that I did work feverishly for programs to help groups - regardless of sex, race, or country of origin. I still work to eradicate those practices which prevent anyone from reaching their full potential as a contributing citizen in this country. I thank you for your attempt to keep the discussion civil. Believe me, I have been exposed to worse. But it may be advantageous to see how those who are less secure in their own beliefs lash out at others.

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How Can Someone Herald All You Say

How can you herald all you say and truly believe that others will take you seriously and do so pen the words you do without displaying 'true forgiveness' towards the offspring of white males in which **some** of them may had parents or grandparents that trampled on your family and even you in days past?

Most white males I know wouldn't even consider wishing back those times and likewise aren't going to allow people to unjustly take away their rights to a level playing field either. I really believe you enjoy watching white men fail and loose all they worked for even if it is at the expense of additional black suffering. I believe your hatred is that strong as evidenced by your lack of forgiveness and despise of some ole white guy like me.

I wish you would forgive and forget and move on. I'd like to. But extracting revenge on people who didn't create the problem but HELPED over the years to overcome many of the ills is hateful. I'm sorry.... but I didn't do it to you and I would not condone it in any way and I DO NOT associate with people who innocent 'others' over their skin color. Take a close look at yourself and your hypocrisy and lack of credibility on this issue. Stop the excusing, blaming and hating and be at peace with forgiveness.

Peace....

Davids mom
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Git Real

You do not represent all white males in my world. I don't need to seek revenge on a group, but you have been so arrogant and mean, I'll have to do a lot of praying to deal with you civilly. Therefore I will not deal with you at all. God is not through with me yet. Have a nice life. Your attempt to 'play' nice in an earlier post and then write this one is a sample of your insincerity.

Git Real
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Then When You Tread On Me......

I wouldn't expect you to be taken advantage of DM so don't be surprised when you post with your justifications for discriminating against the white male group that I happen to be a part of that I won't fight you and your ilk back. I don't care for people that feel entitled to succeed as others are taken down for your personal gain. Sorry but when you steal opportunity from others as done so in your sacred affirmative action obsesssions and continue to rub that in and attempt to justify such entitlement attitudes.... you expect a fight from those you discriminate against.

Arrogant and mean eh? Oh well.... it worked. It exposed your hypocrysies and proved out your true colors. Nuff said....

So be it..... I will be your enemy if you so choose. No biggy.... I work in Clayton County and Riverdale and fully understand your attitudes as I am deal with them soooooo often. Trust me...I am conditioned to your type of bigotry and hatred.

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Git, you are wasting your time in more

ways than one. DM is either 100% nuts to sit here and spew the same racist mess day in and day out... or...she is several people that take turns and keep it going to get people to write in. I think it is the 2nd, hope so anyway.

As far as the airport contracts you both are talking about, there is no way you would have gotten it. You would have to be black and the blacker your work force, the better. It is irrational but true, the blacks can have a 100% black workforce and no one says a word about discrimination against whites. Yet if yours isn't as black as they want, they call the NAACP on you. Is there something wrong with this picture?

I worked at the airport for years and saw the mess these minority owned businesses have made. When I transfered here over 25 yrs ago, I picked up the paper to read they had hauled off about half the elected officials of ATL for corruption and it all had to do with the airport.

One deal I can recall as an example was when they had pay phones at the airport. People started questioning why the charge to pick one up and make a local call was so outrageous. They found that every phone call made had a .75 cent surcharge that was going into the pocket of some black offical. There had to be many people in on the deal for it to have been put in force. Need I say more about how the game is played?

Then there was deal after deal about kickbacks etc on this and that at the airport. It seemed no one white could even get a concession for a business there. They HAD to be black. It was during the time that there was NOTHING in there but tee shirt company after tee shirt company. How imaginative! If you didn't want to buy a shirt that said ATL, you were SOL. And while I'm on a roll...what the h##l has all those black statues and African music (and I do mean as in Africa) got to do with ANYTHING that you are subjected to as you go to concourse A? We were told that garbage was to be pulled years ago, yet there it stands. Someone got a huge price for that no doubt.

I saw inferior work day in and out, just looked over and worked around. In those 25 years, nothing has changed except it has gotten worse.

You were never seriously considered for a contract I'm sure. But if it is any consolation, all this has had a back lash. It has turned whites that use to be on their side against them, such as me. I'm astonished at how ATL has been crippled by this quota BS. Large corporations are no longer coming here, and yes, they are going overseas. Why? Well there is no quota system there. If you don't do the job you should...they fire you. That is how it should be here. The quota system has ruined American companies. They are tired of the BS and I would be too.

Have you ever tried to get help from the ground agents for Delta? Have you ever called ComCast and got anything done right? Yes, they have fast internet, but OMG...just try to get one of them to help you or have any job knowledge...it is scary.

When I sell my house in Fayette county, it will be the 3rd house in ATL I've sold for less than what I could get somewhere else.

I'm sorry about the contract, but you would have just gone into quick sand there. Consider yourself lucky. As for DM..she is, (if she is indeed a she and one person) the biggest racist around. The attitude she has and other blacks have, has killed off ATL and will continue to do so. People don't want to refight the Civil War daily, nor do they feel they owe her or her buddies anything. They are really tired of the pitty pot mentality.

Davids mom
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AA/Affirmative Action

Is no longer an issue. All businesses who wanted work back in the day played the 'token' game to get a contract involving a federal program. Today ,in 2011, companies hire on qualifications - and then look at 'color/gender'. There is only 'one' of me. Many editors don't consider me 'silly'. This discussion has been shared with many. This is the 'new' south - but old attitudes are hard to 'cover'. Most persons here are civil, intelligent, and knowledgeable. Some seem to feel that to act otherwise is a badge of honor. OOU, thank you mam. You should not have been included as a racist on this board, and I apologize.

grizz
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Git Real and Sugarfoot

Thank you for speaking truth to power

AtHomeGym
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Grizz & "truth to power"

so where or who is the "power?"

AtHomeGym
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DMom & perceived "White Superiority

MARK my words, I doubt that will resonate with OofU!

Davids mom
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AHG

Check my response to Oou

Cyclist
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Davids mom - greatest generation

. ....occupied the United States.......?

Occupy:

To seize possession of and maintain control over by or as if by conquest.

That sure doesn’t fit the greatest generation. It does however fit another group.

Davids mom
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Occupy

May have been a poor choice to use when discussing the 'greatest generation'. But when I gave it some thought, the majority of that generation were descendants of the original 'occupiers' of the United States - those who took it from the Native Americans. Hmmmm.

kcchiefandy
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We could have...

...just slaughtered them all and not had to worry about them anymore. Conquest was the rule of the day; the strong, unified, and more advanced survived. We (the big, bad white man) weren't the only doing it. Just like in Africa, Indians slaughtered and enslaved Indians; it was nothing new. Suggest you review the histories of Asia & Africa, and even Europe, and see what you find on such a topic (hmm, of comparative lateness, did you hear what Hitler was trying to do?). Whining about what happened 150-300 yrs ago here means very little without using hindsight and today's mores.

Davids mom
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Kc

I received my full rights as an American citizen in Georgia in 1964. You may not been born, and I don't claim to share the opinions of anyone else. I share what I perceive as the truth based on my research and experience. I have never denied that as an old black woman, I have some racist attitudes. Many of those attitudes regarding southern whites have been corrected in the past six years. Unfortunately, many have been re-enforced by the words of some of the posters in this discussion.

kcchiefandy
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I understand...

...as most of your generation have been greatly slighted, esp. in the history of the South. Coming from the Midwest, having only resided here for 8 yrs, I sense a keen retributive attitude by a large section of the black community. Vernon Jones and the East Point City Council are just two examples of blacks illegally wielding their dominion over whites. Simply put, esp. from what I've seen in the ATL, the majority of the black community have taken the teaching of MLK, Jr. and spit on them. Time heals all wounds, but apparently its not time for this area. BTW, born 1961 in W. Kansas; never met a black person until I went to college. Any views or attitudes I had evolved there; you might be quite surprised at how liberal the mid-west can be on many views & topics.

Davids mom
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Kc

Thanks for sharing your background. You brought to mind an interesting point. I was raised in Southern California - attended integrated schools; lived in integrated neighborhoods. Graduated from college the year you were born. I always was involved in activities that involved all races. Of course there was ignorant racism, but this was not condoned by the adults in our schools, homes, or churches. Your comment about retribution is interesting. Upon arrival in Georgia I was told to listen for code phrases of southerners. Lo and behold I heard them. Actually they really didn't mean much to me - but it did affect the attitudes of those who were raised here towards the person who made a 'comment'. It has been my experience that Andy Young was right. In the North, blacks could get 'big' - just don't get too close. In the South, blacks could get close, just don't get too 'big'. I have never seen as many blacks in my life as I have seen in the south(except on the African continent.). In Fayette County, it has been my experience that the blacks and whites who live here and have similar goals and values get along just fine. My oldest son went to college here and was instructed not to get caught in Fayette County after dark. This county had an interesting history regarding their treatment of blacks. I have learned a lot in this discussion. My actual experience with the citizens of Fayette County has been most pleasant. There has always been a group in the black community that did not go along with MLK's non-violence. Without his guidance, I feel there would have been a bloodbath in our country. I have found out to some diversity is a dirty word. Some believe that blacks did not achieve until they were given 'government' help. My mother graduated from UCLA in 1932. Her help came from family and she worked. So you may understand why I get a little upset when generalizations are made regarding all black people.

Git Real
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That's It DM

Reach way back and grab for something that might help you somewhat justify your silly and racist line of thinking.

PTC Observer
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DM - Sometimes

Your logic or lack of it is astonishing.

IMHO

lion
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Class warfare and taxation

Excuse me for a moment. After reading McMillian's column, I am so moved by the plight of the rich that my tears are falling on my keyboard.

Yes, the rich are the true victims in our society. Forget the poor. Forget the ever increasing gap in wealth and income between the middle class and the affluent and rich. We must not let the rich sacrifice any more. What do you working folks want? That the rich might have to give up their country club memberships or god forbid their yachts?

If McMillian really teaches at John Marshall Law School, please protect your sons and daughters and keep them away from that college.

PTC Observer
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Lion - define

"victim" please

What do "you people" want you ask? To stop being robbed by a government that attempts to make all equal in every respect, the moment it does this is the moment that we are unequal.

You have taken a concept of equal rights under the law and corrupted its meaning to include other people's property. You and people like you have no "right" to someone's life, liberty, or property. Unless you want to be a slaveholder and use the government as your overseer.

Ninja Guy
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PTCO, Your

lack of an ability to think more deeply than a sound bite continues to astound me, and I am sure others on this forum! Get a real life and interact with some deep thinkers face to face! The world will be a better place for it! You are one of the biggest proponents of the state on this forum!

Braves Set to Stomp the Snakes Again Today!

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Ninja - sound bite

Sound bite Ninja? How would you know about sound bites? You have no TV.

Who exactly would these "deep thinkers" be there Ninja? I am all for making the world a better place.

Actually I am a proponent of the state! A small one.

What I am not a proponent of is the "Goldilocks" state, you know the one that's "just right". It's a fairy tale Ninja, just like your philosophy.

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A crying lion

President Carter and the Dems tweak the tax laws and placed hefty taxes on yachts. We'll guess what happened; those middle class workers that built and maintained those yachts joined the ranks of the unemployed when the rich stopped buying.

kevink
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Cyclist and Observerofu: Your message problem:

Dont tax the rich or what they buy any more than we do now. But..... Fair or flat tax everything from mortgage to credit card interest. Our problem with debt is so so big, but not big enough to increase revenue above these HISTORICALY LOW rates. Really ?
Observer, you said raising taxes on millionaires is class warfare. Reagans capital gains taxes were higher than present rates. Was he waging class warfare on the rich? If we go back to Reagan tax rates, is that waging class warfare?

Cyclist
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Well kevin

I have not gone on record regarding fair/flat tax thingy so you must have me confused with my evil twin. But nonetheless, you can't escape the truth...that this overly simplistic idea of robbing the rich - oh I forgot, paying their fair share – and giving it to the poor, in reality, is not going to make life any less difficult for those struggling today.

Oh, I'll let you in one little secret...just between you and me. As soon as those that advocate this idea find out that soaking those evil rich will not be enough they’re going to come looking for more. I wonder how long it will take them to determine that those that work in the "wheel house" will now become the new “rich”?

Davids mom
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A question

Why are some in this discussion ignoring the opportunity to write a check to the Dept. Of Treasury to help with our deficit? Why are you waiting for an ineffective 'government'/'Congress' to come up with a solution? Someone figured out if one out of four Americans sent in $5.00 a month - that would help bring down the deficit. Some here have indicated that they may participate. What happened to American individualism - and non-reliance on 'guvment'? There are others throughout the country who feel they can contribute in this manner. Some believe its a better investment than contributing to the battling political parties.

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Davids mom - Helping the "guv"

If $5.00 a month works for you then so be it. I prefer to do it the old fashion way, spending lots of money in the local community by sprucing-up the old homestead. If I plan it just right, I'll have enough money left over to afford one of them "adult bubble bath tub thingies". Oh, my tub will be much better than roundabout's tub. :-)

Davids mom
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Cyclist

Your way will help too!! (I just don't think there are too many who have the more than $5.00 a month that you'll spend in the community and your homestead to follow your lead.)

bad_ptc
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Cy, don't hold your breath

I said the same exact thing to JeffC and got the exact same reply. NOTHING!

Once the entitlement population is done with the 'rich' they'll be coming after you and me to pay for their handouts.

Damn kevink, did your Internet connection go down at just the right time?

Cyclist
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bad

Handouts........it's more like just taking your money and your property. After all we have this thingy called a wealth gap which has to be reconciled. The amazing thing about it is that according to some it's our fault that such a gap exists.....so the "guv" will take your money and you better not complain. If you did complain you'll be labeled as a Tea Party member and we all know what the vice perpetrator thinks of that group of citizens.

kevink
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Cyclist. U just wrote about luxury tax as a mistake.

Who is advocating robin hood tactics? We are saying to the wealthy, who have never been taxed less, that maybe, just maybe unpaid for tax cuts helped dig this hole and a BALANCED APPROACH of cutting spending and adjusting billionaire's taxes to Reagan rates might be necessary. This is a huge debt problem. Cant figure out why so many middle america folks are running cover for paris hilton and her parents while telling retired grandmas to step up.

Cyclist
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Kevin - Who is advocating you ask

Well to begin with, read some of the comments on this thread. Tell me those that mention the poor and those evil rich in the same breath are not advocating that very same thing.

Looking at it from the national level, why does Maxine Waters and the CBC want the President to fight the Republicans and the Tea Party and insist on taxes for high-income earners? Do you honestly think that Waters and the CBC only want this to pay down the debt?

Now for some good news; I saw where the President noted that the debt and bloated budget is the result of bad management of several past administrations. This is a far cry from the Repubs and driving the car into the ditch rhetoric.

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kevin heard the same argument from media matters

today. I see you are up to date.

Doesn't matter what Reagan, Clinton, Bush or anyone else did in the PAST there kevin the issue is TODAY and TOMORROW. Nothing else matters.
The Taxbase was dramatically larger and most had skin in the game today the top 1% owns 24% of the wealth but pays 40% of the taxes.

The problem is spending kevin and until you and your progressive buddies get that we will not be pulling back from the cliff anytime soon. You see kevin Congress will just spend the extra revenue tax hikes will bring in and we will still be in the same shape as we are now BUT with higher tax rates.

Then what?

A little real history for you Kevin.....

http://www.house.gov/jec/fiscal/tx-grwth/reagtxct/reagtxct.htm

Davids mom
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Oou

Interesting chart and explanation. How do you get revenue into the budget discussion? How do you pay OFF the deficit without killing the productivity of the country - and insuring our future? Are we interested at keeping our leadership role? Is maintaing world leadership an advantage to our future? Sincerely looking forward to your answer without looking for ways to contradict your thinking.

kevink
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Get ovet it observer. I write from my beliefs.

I dont need talking points. You have a logic problem. You fail to acknowledge the fact that while our debt is historicaly high our taxes are historicaly low. That is simply not logical. If you would step away from your koch brother message u might see that you are calling bush sr and reagan and nixon tax rates class warfare on thr rich. Es

Observerofu
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kevin your beliefs are wrong

from a free market capitalist point of view. But from a Socialist one you are right on.

Correction-Marxist fit better

Definition of Marxism: The economic, social, political, pseudo-scientific philosophy, theory, belief, or system based on the works of Karl Marx of Germany. The theory seeks the elimination of the notion of private property in order to gain control of the economic "means of production" by taking it from the bourgeois (the wealthy or propertied class) for the benefit of the proletariat (working class.)

I guess that's why so many in Obama's administration look to Mao for inspiration.

kevink
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Now you are venturing into the idiotic observerofu

The tax rates of reagan are now marxist? Someone wants to take rich people's stuff? Because we feel a balanced approach to debt reduction should not include historically low tax rates which added to the deficit. I give. You win. Cut all taxes to zero, stop bachmann's pay check, disband the military, and break out the pay as you go toll booth interstates.

Observerofu
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Don't be obtuse kevin you know exactly what you are saying

Why aren't you advocating for a Balanced Budget amendment kevin? Why don't you want the Government to work/live within it's means?

Why because you and yours want a balanced America. One where we are all equally miserable. One where the piss poor choices made by some are shared by all so no one has to have the social stigma of being poor or overweight or an alcoholic or anything else.

Kevin your world does not exist anywhere except in some Socialist utopia dreams.

Soaking the Rich getting them to pay their fair share is a Marxist philosophy one that you espouse loudly and often.

To what ends kevin? There are not enough rich to pay for everything so when they are finished with the "Rich" who's next?

You see the problem kevin there will always be someone poorer than you with their hand in your pocket while your hand is in the "Rich" guy's pocket and so on and so on.

Git Real
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Kevin Is A Good Man

One of these days...he is going to get it.

Cheers!!!

bad_ptc
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Git, crawl out of this sewer of an argument

There is no way to win even when you’re right.

kevink called me a racist for calling wetbacks wetbacks.

What kevink doesn’t realize is the fact that the majority of illegal immigrants in the U.S. are from some 18 countries, see ICE reports, that illegally sneak across the Mexican/American border into the US. kevink just ASSUMED, I was referring to Mexicans only. Talk about a racist.

I wish that someone could explain to kevink that ‘wetbacks’ are comprised of several nationalities and they all harm the American way of life. Oh, that’s right kevink is an Obama lover so granting illegal aliens citizenship is OK now. Tell me kevink, when should we allow illegal immigrants the right to vote in this country?

Is it odd that kevink and Obama are on vacation at the same time? kevink isn’t surfing he’s turning the pages while Obama reads his fiction.

kevink, did you bring your Koran to read to your wife and kids while you’re on vacation?

kevink, don’t sell your house and move away mad, just sell your house and move.

P.S. try not calling in sick this X-Mass when you’re scheduled to actually work for a living. From what I hear you’ve done it twice in the last few years now.

kevink
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BadPTC, I'm sure N-words come in all colors too, don't they?

What a troubled piece of work you are. Glad you aren't my problem. But please tell me more of your fascination with my work schedule, and "what you've heard" about it. Heard from who? And why would anyone sit around talking about some guy's schedule over "the last few years now"? That's just plain strange dude..... strange. Wrong about the realtor issue. Wrong about your strange obsession with my schedule. Oh yeah, and "wet-back" isn't a racial epithet....... strange eggs we have on these boards. Not that your odd rambling is worth an actual reply, but I think you meant to attack Ronald Reagan on his support of immigration reform, as he has been to the left of Obama on this. As you know from your fascination with me and my life, you can't find an easier blogger to meet. So when you want to get your facts straight about my holidays, come and ask me.

carbonunit52
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Meeting kevink
Quote:

...you can't find an easier blogger to meet

I am here to testify that this is correct. Face to face, that's the stuff.

kevink
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Carbon. The more I think about what this guy's focus is....

The less of a good idea I think meeting him is. Do you know how anyone other than immediate family spent their last several Christmas holidays? That's just troubling, weird stuff right there. I may need Joanie Laurer as a bodyguard. i'm sure shee is free between filming.

PTC Observer
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Obamalaise

The great Obamalaise continues until 2012, so who exactly supports Mr. Obama? Here are the top contributors to his re-election campaign.

Looks like banksters, socialist Universities, crony capitalists, government employees and of course attorneys representing their interests in government transactions with "public-private cooperation".

Here are the PAC’s, supported by employees, owners, and those individuals’ immediate families.

University of California $1,648,685
Goldman Sachs $1,013,091
Harvard University $864,654
Microsoft Corp $852,167
Google Inc $814,540
JPMorgan Chase & Co $808,799
Citigroup Inc $736,771
Time Warner $624,618
Sidley Austin LLP $600,298
Stanford University $595,716
National Amusements Inc $563,798
Wilmerhale Llp $550,168
Skadden, Arps et al $543,539
Columbia University $541,002
UBS AG $532,674
IBM Corp $532,372
General Electric $529,855
US Government $517,908
Morgan Stanley $512,232
Latham & Watkins $503,295

Source: http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?cycle=2008&cid=n00009638

Ninja Guy
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PTCO, I Agree

that it is terrible that we have no laws in the US preventing people from doing what they want with their property! We must looking into the funding of that group down in Auburn, Alabama too! What self-interested people and groups are behind their funding? Only if they would provide full disclosure like Obama!

Go Braves--Beat Back the Diamond Backs!

PTC Observer
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Ninja - I agree

anyone should be able to contribute to anyone they want. However, we should raise the visibility on it. Don't you think?

Want to look into the funding of the Mises group? Go right ahead pal, but I don't think they have the power to reduce your wealth.

Ninja Guy
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PTCO--Just Curious Why

the boys in Auburn don't open their books, and I don't mean the students! Perhaps the Koch bothers will not allow it! Nobody has the power to reduce your wealth but you! Hey, that is catchy! Maybe a self-help book for pseudo state-haters like yourself!

Braves Take on the Snakes Tonight At Turner Field!

PTC Observer
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Pseudo? Ninja

I don't know the answer to your question about "the boys in Auburn", why don't you drop them a line and ask them?

"Nobody has the power to reduce your wealth but you!"

Clearly you need to snap back to reality and stop watching too much baseball.

Observerofu
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PTCO Ninj is referring to the Mises Institute

Hey did you see the King of Keynesian Economics Paul Krugman said an Alien Invasion will save us.

Ahh those nutty Keynesian folk they are such jokers.

http://bigjournalism.com/wthuston/2011/08/15/krugman-a-space-alien-attac...

PTC Observer
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OOU - Yes

Yes, Ninj is obsessed with trying to disprove the theories of Von Mises and the Austrian school of economics, a job that he is uniquely unqualified to do. He has Cliff Notes to help him though and he's pretty good at Google searches.

I just humor him to keep him posting nonsense because he's good for a laugh every now and then. He and Roundie are great friends and intellectual equals.

As for Krugman, he did win a Nobel Prize after all so we can't expect too much from him. Nutty is a hallmark trait of the left. Yes, Ninja I know about Milton too but this was his reward for coming up with the withholding tax idea during WWII. What would the socialists do without clever tax ideas?

Uncle Milt believed he was helping the war effort and regretted his contribution till the day he died.

Ninja Guy
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PTCO, Lew and I

are not on speaking terms! People only do to you what you let them! Stop being a pansy and letting people walk over you! Empower yourself!

Falcons Take on the Jags! Many people playing for jobs this season--the stuff survival of the fittest lovers love! Play good or get the ax!

PTC Observer
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Ninja - How

about those socialist paradises in Europe pal, they're doing well aren't they?

You know individual freedom means you can move back there anytime you want.

They have football there too!!

Let me know if you need help packing your bags.

Davids mom
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And who contributed

to the Republican campaign?

Usual transparency.

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/summary.php?cycle=2008&cid=N00006424

PTC Observer
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DM - good

work, I gave the source so you could click through to get the info.

Republican's have the same problem. Perry is a great example of this.

Davids mom
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PTCO

Thanks

Davids mom
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What is wrong with

public- private cooperation?

PTC Observer
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DM - How

about corruption?

Davids mom
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Corruption

Equally apparent in the public and private sector. Our responsibility as citizens is to learn from the past and let public and private sectors know that we are watching. We still have some honest journalists that are doggedly after 'truth'. We need to pay attention.

PTC Observer
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DM- You seem to

miss my point, the fact that neo-capitals have their money in politics leads to corruption of our governmental processes.

The government needs to get out of being the "decider" of who gets what, when and for what purpose. We have lost our way as a country and we won't get it back by allowing government to interfer with markets.

Davids mom
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PTCO

I hope you're not implying that there is no corruption in the private sector? Please clarify. Thanks

PTC Observer
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Nope - DM

I am not implying that at all, but in the private sector you at least have a chance of catching them and throwing them in jail.

In politics you don't have much of a chance to do this, it's "You scratch my back, I'll scratch your back, and oh by-the-way, we make all the rules anyway."

Davids mom
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PTCO

You don't have much chance in politics if you're not involved . We've let the private sector and lobbyist have control of OUR government. IMO. VOTE! ( I know you do)

Davids mom
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Deleted by poster

.

BHH
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State your source for these figures.

I'd like to believe them and see them used in future arguments.

But you gave no reference for them.

For those of you who keep using the term "bankrupt the country", bankruptcy is not available to the government, only individuals.

Observerofu
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Thank You Mr. McMillian

The class warfare of this administration and the progressive movement is ludicris at best.

The Rich already pay MORE than their fair share but the entitlement class want more for free and will never get enough. The Progressives want to keep them riled up so none will stop and actually start to wonder just why is it they are in the situation they find themselves in, because if they do they might discover a whole history of failed promises.

conditon55
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$14,000,000,000,000.00 in Debt

We are over 14 trillion dollars in debt.

It is time to make the health of the nation our common special interest.

Will you sacrifice the health of the nation to coddle the rich? Yes ? Why ?

Is wall street more special than our national economic health ?

Is it worth bankrupting the country to bankroll the health care industry?
How about big oil ? How about the coal industry ? Is is worth going bankrupt for defense ?

How special is special ?

Fact is - a lot folks good breaks they shouldn't have and now the situation is in the crapper.

But if you hitch me up to a sled and tell me to pull, and you hitch a rich guy up next to me, then that SOB better be a pullin as hard as I am.

Right ?

rmoc
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Remove Earned Income Credit

You don't pay you don't receive. This is not a socialist state, so let us have a straightforward tax system that taxes everyone fairly NO LOOPHOLES, NO FREERIDES...Flat Tax or Fairtax..

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