Taxes and the meaning of Obama’s ‘shared sacrifice’

Lance McMillian's picture

President Obama is right. When he talks about the “Bush tax cuts,” the President bemoans the fact that these cuts inequitably distribute the tax burden among Americans. Instead of this inequality, he argues that we need to return to tax rates that promote “shared sacrifice” and ensure that all of us pay our “fair share” of earnings to the federal government. True enough.

But President Obama is not right in the way he thinks he is right. When the President speaks of “shared sacrifice,” he means that “the rich” do not pull their weight and keep too much of their money for themselves rather than sending it to the government for the common good.

The actual facts about the Bush tax cuts, however, paint a startlingly different picture than the one the President articulates in his speeches. The cuts apply to all American income-earners and remove millions and millions from the obligation of paying any income taxes.

Indeed, half of Americans now pay no federal income taxes at all. Additionally, through the earned income credit, 30 percent of Americans receive tax refunds for taxes they do not even pay.

So who, then, is paying taxes to the federal government? The rich. In everyday terms, “fair share” would mean a rough equivalency between the percentage of taxes paid and the percentage of income earned. Based on this definition, the rich do not pay their fair share. They pay far more.

Here are the numbers: The top 1 percent earn 19 percent of the income but pay 38 percent of the taxes. The top 5 percent earn 33 percent of the income but pay 57 percent of the taxes. The top 25 percent earn 66 percent of the income but pay 85 percent of the taxes.

These figures show two things. First, the top income earners pay a disproportionately high share of all income taxes. Second, the higher up on the income ladder one goes, the greater the share of all income taxes that person pays.

To hear President Obama tell it, however, high-income earners pay hardly anything in taxes while those on the lower end of the economic spectrum are forced to carry the burden for all of us. As the facts bear out, the reality is exactly the opposite.

Now it may very well be that our present inequitable system of making high-income earners pay a higher proportion in taxes than they earn in income is sound public policy. That is a different debate for another time. The point here is that the President’s rhetoric is totally divorced from the truth and highlights the hollowness of his platitudes on this issue.

Does a call for “shared sacrifice” have any real meaning when the President directs his ire toward those who already pay twice their pro rata share in taxes and yet leaves other income earners who pay nothing untouched? How much more do the rich have to pay to reach their “fair share”?

President Obama’s deception goes deeper still when he blames our debt problem on a small minority of citizens holding the country “hostage” by refusing to raise taxes on the rich. Not so.

The top federal income tax bracket now sits at 35 percent. Even if we doubled this rate to 70 percent, the United States would still have roughly a trillion-dollar deficit. That’s trillion with a “t.”

Taxes aren’t the problem; spending is. Why then the unrelenting focus on taxing the rich?

Not because of economic policy. Rather, the push for tax increases on the rich is philosophical, primal even. The prevailing mindset of the American Left is that success is the product of fortuity, not achievement. If fate determines income, as this viewpoint believes, then the rich have no moral claim to the money they earn.

This line of thinking is the path to financial misery. All of us should take heed of the writer Robert Heinlein’s warning that the standard of living to which we in America are accustomed is not the natural state of the world:

“Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.

This is known as ‘bad luck.’”

Heinlein is kidding at the end, of course. Bad luck has nothing to do with it. Punishing success is a choice.

It is also economic suicide — for the rich, poor, and middle-class alike.

[Lance McMillian is a Fayette County resident and law professor at Atlanta’s John Marshall Law School.]

Gort
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Git Real, maybe you haven’t heard?

Our energy problems are solved according to, GOP presidential candidate, Michele Bachmann. If elected, she will get gasoline prices below $2 per gallon!

That should push that nasty old inflation back into its cage, eh? Yeah boy, $2 dollar gasoline trumps “a chicken in every pot” these days!

It’s early in the primary season but so far, Michele Bachmann got my vote in the GOP primary!

Git Real
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Want To Change The Subject?

Okay. Let's talk about gas and jobs then.

How about a fast track reopening of offshore drilling off the Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama coastlines? How about putting the many idled drilling rigs that are scattered up and down the Gulf coast back to work? Do you realize how many hundreds of thousands of jobs this would save, create and support while reinvesting dollars back into our economy rather than those of Venezuela, Saudi ArabiaCanadada, etc.?

This would have an IMMEDIATE impact on our Gulf Coast region and then your president could take credit for actually creating some real employment numbers other than those he has created by increasing government union employees, Government motors, BOA and etc....

Come on people. There are IMMEDIATE and common sense approaches to jump starting this economy that do NOT require massive amounts of gumament spending and debt.

I watch dictators overseas operate in a manner that is harmdetrimentalromental to the peoples of those countries and I am beginning to think our president has somewhat the same tendencies yet thus far..not in a violent manner. But it seems he is attacking us in an economic manner.

I just did an extensive tour deep into the Gulf Coast regions observing once vibrant ship yards, platform constructing facilities, idled rigs in ports in New Orleans, Houma, Grand Isle, Morgan City and the Sabine pass where I have personally witnessed the destruction of our once vibrant oil economy in those areas. Each one of those rigs requirepersonnel personell for food services, transportation, construction, manufacturing, equipment support and service, Seismographic research vessels, divers, pipeline crews, that drive demand for lodging, retail support, and all sorts of other business support and demands that will further increase employment, revenue, tax base and HOPE in a simple and easy approach.

I mean... If this administration was serious about creating jobs. This would be a wonderful first step. Forget about pointing fingers from the past there is plenty of blame to spread around among both parties. What can we do from here? Let's get this economy going again.....

Git Real
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Oh...and $2 gas is history

The economics of it all will never support it with the printing of money we have experienced and the bastardization of the worth of the dollar that is a result of irresponsible fiscal policies that are the rotten fruits of BOTH parasites....I mean parties in Washington.

We are where we are. Let's dig out and stabilize from here. And don't give me that crap about Obama doing that just that with the trillions he has added to our debt without notable results.

We The People are going to have to get this government out of the way so we can rebuild this once prosperous and stable nation. Time to get productive folks....

Gort
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Git Real, drilling oil

is a serious, risky, and complex business. Are you suggesting the Interior Department, (BOEMRE,) just rubber stamp the permits it has on file?

BTW, I do agree with you that more jobs are important to reviving the economy.

AtHomeGym
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Gort & $2 Gas

Don't think $2 Gas has anything to do with coal-fired power plants--that's the issue at hand. However I think I did see where Bachmann said if she became President, EPA's lights would be turned out and doors locked!

Gort
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AtHomeGym, you got me,

I was trying to ruffle Git Real’s feathers a little!

I didn’t know that a “President Bachmann” would turn out the lights and lock the doors at the EPA. Thanks for telling me.

I’m sure we could all breath a little easier for that but not for very long, eh? 8 - )

roundabout
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GYM

I do hope you know that although simple minded, that Bachmann knows she could never do any of the things she lies about for votes of the TEAS.

She doesn't even know the difference in a birthday and a death celebration!

Even Palin does better than that.

If you want to win, better nominate Huntsman.

If you don't care about winning but would rather have Obama to blame for the coming depression, then nominate Newt or any of the crowd.

roundabout
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Gort

Yes, I heard how that is to be done.

We are going to threaten Saudi Arabia with destruction if they don't have OPEC cut the price of oil such that $2.00 gas can be produced.

I expect we would also bomb Mecca while at it! (by accident).

Gort
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Round, that would be pretty radical,

all right.

Git Real
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.

Hi everyone! Best to ya. Yeah...I hit the button twice again....

kevink
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Gitreal. As usual we disagree on much...

But it's so good to read you again. One okie to another. Been loving my escape from the heat well south of 0 degrees latitude. Give things 1,2 and 3 a hug for me, and kiss the missus.

Git Real
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Kevin...

I'll bet in the end we could find much common ground putting politics aside and admitting that the Repubs and Demos are a useless and ineffective bunch of self-serving / traitorous hacks that really could care less about the the middle class / working class peoples that we fit into. A few discussion ground rules coupled with a some respect of each other's opinions and I'd bet we could solve half this sensless crap. Even then the elites ain'ta gonna listen.

You know... before any of this improves... we have got to push these parties off to the side and let 'real Americans' come together for sensible solutions.

Will be in OK for several weeks in September. Let me know if you can get together. Take you out on the farm for good old fashion skunk, pigeon and coyote shootin' while we cut loose and have some fun redneck style.

Cheers!

kevink
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Git. dont stand me up like Hutch.

rispel aos mi em vc. Thats what my made in japan phone spit out when I said "He still owes me a visit." Been wanting to meet u for years. Only bad words Ive heard about you came from you. Cause you wouldnt pull the trigger on a raptor ;-). I'll gladly come south and if you and yours come north I'll give you the VIP tour. I'll get my contact info to you.

Cheers.

ps. I am learning that surfing is for teens and early twentiers with no fear of sudden doom and/or drowning. Probably safer hobby than fighting though. 63° water today :-0

carbonunit52
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kevink and surfing

Dude, there is a reason that surfers talk the way they do.

Cyclist
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carbon about kevin.

kevin is surfing south of the border. I'm thinking somewhere in Peru.

kevink
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Dont out me Cyclist. Im still in the closet :-)

Sionara Qaddafi :-D! For the French haters out there, they were way out front in making this happen! Tres bien mon amis

kevink
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Carb, i have a feeling it is linked to loss of blood flow...

In a too tight wet suit. Tried to surf goofy but it didnt work with the left breaks. And my teather kept wrapping my legs up when the breaks took me head first off the board. I wonder whats in the water I drank today, and how long before its out of my lungs

Davids mom
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The tragedy of the American rich

We watch nightly as the American rich stand in long lines looking for work. We hear how the rich are suffering from foreclosures. Our hearts are saddened by the rich not being able to send their children to college. The current gas prices are stopping the rich from getting to work for the entire week and still feed their kids. The rich are carrying such a burden while the middle class is just leaning back living off the efforts of others. What a tragedy!

kcchiefandy
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News flash:

As for your college comment, the poorer you are the more college that is free for you (provided you qualify for entrance). VERY middle-class here, and every dime of my 2 kids college is coming out of my pocket (and theirs w/ p/t jobs and some some s/ships). If my wife or I quits working, we should (or would have) qualified for some grants, like many get for most all of their BA/S level degrees. Can't get much more 'here's a hand up' than that...

Davids mom
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Kcchiefandy

Oh, I understand! My oldest son has two kids in college. I so admire the parents who sacrifice and work together to make sure their kids have a meaningful education. Also, by your kids working part time, they are learning a valuable lesson. I'm sure they appreciate your hard work and loving support. Congratulations!

rmoc
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The Economy and politics AND CHINA

#1 Fix the tax code, flat tax or fair tax..get rid of the loopholes and payouts that stick it to the middle class, allow folks to skip their tax burden (like many in the Administration do) and payout to folks who do not pay taxes.

#2 Reward Corporations for keeping jobs in the US...you can't punish because that just pushes them off-shore. Make it beneficial to hire Americans...like making wages within a certain range tax deductible and making it benefit to keep companies here.

#3 Tariffs - Ohhhhh..not fair...well China cheats us left and right stealing trademarks and patents and working their people for "slave" wages. Since many countries do not play by the rules they should "pay". We can start now by not buying the cheap "chinese" stuff and insist on American made..avoid the dollar stores...I don't care how poor you are but if you buy the $2 t-shirt made in china vs the $5 shirt made in North Carolina you are part of the problem.

#4 Social Security - Sorry ...I may be conservative but I think it is necessary to means test Social Security to save it and only pay out for people who have fully paid into the system...non US Citizens should have to pay into the system for additional quarters. I am also against moving the age up because finding a job after 60 is almost impossible.

Note - Many of these things would not be necessary if Americans "Bought American" and did not get used to cheap prices brought on by the Chinese Flood. Yes, it cost more but if 20 years ago we had kept to our guns and stuck with American Made thousands would still have jobs and could afford to spend a little more. We wanted cheap "stuff" and now we have the results because the cost are spread somewhere....in job losses...

I hate the obscene rewards that some of the corporate kings get but keep in mind over 60 percent of people are employed by small business and many of those companies are barely making it. A company that makes 1 million a year and has 50 employees is not sitting pretty after all the expenses... but unfortunately too many folks vote that do not understand general economics and just want to stick it to companies. If you stick it to too many companies 99 weeks of unemployment will be more like 999 weeks...

kevink
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RMOC, sorry for the delay.

I did lose connectivity during a couple high altitude excursions. I agree with much of what you wrote. Points 2 3 and 4 in particular. Im doing this speak into the phone and it dictates thing, but it and swype have been pretty sketchy so far. Bottom line, if cooperation doesnt come back to washintgton after the break, we will be stuck in this mess perpetually.

kevink
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Rmoc and other conservatives: You have a problem.

Rmoc, your number one fix is a flat or fair tax. Solution numero uno. Conservatives had a chance to present a fair tax candidate to America in 2008. But conservatives DID NO SUCH THING. Fair tax candidates were rejected in your primary. Dont complain to us aboht a needed faid tax when you guys cant get a proponent through a GOP primary. Your party's problem is internal. You need to argue with GOP primary voters. And while you do, help me understand how Reagan's tax rates were class warfare

Observerofu
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kevin your argument is illogical

Your argument but Reagan did it too is just like the argument it's all Bush's fault. The whole premise of your argument is that Reagan taxed the "Rich" so it's ok to do so now. What you conveniently leave out is the fact that when Reagan took office in 1981, the top marginal income tax rate was 70 percent and the rich paid 20 percent of all income taxes. He got it cut in half to a 35 percent marginal rate and now the rich pay twice that.

In other words kevin, yes when he took office from CARTER the tax rate was 70% on the RICH and the ECONOMY was in the CRAPPER.

He got it moved to 35% and the Economy took off like a rocket.

So your argument that Reagan taxed the rich presumes Reagan raised the rate to 70% which he most definitely did not.

Your argument is neither logical nor factual.

kevink
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Loud sigh observer...

Were tax rates, like capital gains, higher under Reagan than current rates or not? Since they were higher than current rates, was this tantamount to war on the rich or not? Someone IS having difficulty with facts. Even S&P thinks we need a balanced approach to conquer our debt, but for some reason you cling to this class warfare nonsense. Our problem is huge, right? But not quite big enough to pay down with a combination of decreased spending and increased revenue? Amazing. And whats this idea that the economy took off under Reagan? We have a spending problem, right? What did the deficit do under him? Soo, deficits are a problem under dems but easily explained and ignored under our like-minded politicos? Ok. Got it. We shouldnt throw every possible remedy at this huge problem. Just stop spending on the card. But dont use all means available to then pay it down. The military will pay themselves. Just keep equating taxes to robbery. FEMA only matters when YOU need it. The FDA only matters when ecoli hits your home. I will say it again. I believe all americans need to sacrifice to solve our problems. You don't. Nuff said

Git Real
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Facts?

Who needs true facts when ideology will suffice?

rmoc
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kevink: conservative does not mean Republican

I do not consider myself a Republican and was not a fan of McCain(or even Bush)..I am closer to Libertarian since I am pro-choice and believe government should not mess with marriage be it gay or straight (which is a very complicated issue I admit). I do not like Obama either because he represents the educational elite that have more degrees than common sense. Common sense and politics do not go together I have disdain for most politicians and I have found that the ones with the best intentions soon become disillusioned and drop out...

Observerofu
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DMom,Lion and Kevin and Gort you too

You guys love Class Warfare. Tax the rich take it they really didn't earn it.

I mean your mentor said it himself. Take it from them.

Let me ask you fine upstanding "Free Market" (sic)loving folks a simple question.

WHAT GOOD WILL IT DO TO TAX THE RICH?

Answer that one little question for me PLEASE.

Will it pay off the deficit?
Will it pay for Healthcare?
Will it provide funding for entitlement programs?

Here let me help. No, No and No.

So what is a fair tax rate. 50%, 60% 90%. How much wealth do we need to confiscate to make you FEEL better?

Remember the Government is deficit spending of $1.7 TRILLION dollars PER YEAR.

So if we took a 100% tax rate of all people over $250,000 it would pay for 147 days of spending by this Government if we took all the wealth and ALL the property it would pay for about 242 days of Government spending.

Then WHAT? Tell me. Then what? After that you would receive no more revenue.

So adding a few percentage points is a feel good moment for you that's it.

So yes this is simply class warfare at it's worse.

You are hurting this Country. You are hurting it's citizens and you are a danger to our Republic.

http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2011/04/11/can-taxing-the-rich-erase-the-
deficit/

"Megan McArdle’s blog on the Atlantic uses IRS data to figure out how much money the government would raise by taxing certain wealth levels. He says a 45% rate on incomes of more than $1 million would generate $31 billion, while an even more progressive tax, with rates of 50%, 60%, 70% on incomes of $500,000, $5 million, $10 million respectively would generate an added $133 billion."

That is roughly 10% of the current annual budget deficit.

"Consider the Internal Revenue Service’s income tax statistics for 2008, the latest year for which data are available. The top 1% of taxpayers—those with salaries, dividends and capital gains roughly above about $380,000—paid 38% of taxes. But assume that tax policy confiscated all the taxable income of all the “millionaires and billionaires” Mr. Obama singled out. That yields merely about $938 billion, which is sand on the beach amid the $4 trillion White House budget, a $1.65 trillion deficit, and spending at 25% as a share of the economy, a post-World War II record.

Say we take it up to the top 10%, or everyone with income over $114,000, including joint filers. That’s five times Mr. Obama’s 2% promise. The IRS data are broken down at $100,000, yet taxing all income above that level throws up only $3.4 trillion. And remember, the top 10% already pay 69% of all total income taxes, while the top 5% pay more than all of the other 95%." Wall Street Jounal

Gort
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OofU, you called my name?

OofU, you called my name? This is my answer.

Nobody is asking for a 50, 60, or 70 percent tax rate on anybody. You know that and you still keep posting the same “class warfare” baloney argument you always post.

So what if the top 10% of earners pays 70% percent of all income taxes. The top 50% of earners pays 97% of all income taxes. The bottom 50% of earners pays 3% of all income taxes. The reason the richest 50% of earners pays the majority of the tax is because they got the money and the bottom 50% don’t. All it really proves is the middle class is getting smaller and the working poor are getting larger.

I’m betting that the bottom 50% is made up of young families just getting started in life, the working poor one payday away from disaster, and seniors working part time or on fixed incomes. How much more money do you think you can squeeze out of people making $33K, or less, after they pay for food, shelter, transportation, and whatever else it takes to run a household?

Observerofu
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Gort haven't you been one of the ones calling

for soaking the rich? Was I mistaken?

Gort
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OofU, are you still not taking questions?
Quote:

How much more money, (in income tax,) do you think you can squeeze out of people making $33K, or less, after they pay for food, shelter, transportation, and whatever else it takes to run a household?

Observerofu
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Addendum to taxing the Rich

One other thing I keep forgetting to mention is this:

THE RICH DON"T PAY INCOME TAX per se.

You see to have an INCOME tax you have to earn an INCOME. The "RICH" earn dividends from investments.
Here is where Warren Buffet is being dishonest when he states his tax rate is lower than his secretaries.

He is correct because HE DOESN'T EARN AN INCOME AND HIS SECRETARY DOES.

His taxes are paid on Capital Gains from his wealth. This is not an salaried INCOME . He and his cohorts in the media always seem to forget to mention that.

So DMOM, KEVINK, LION,and GORT what good will it do to raise INCOME tax rates on those that don't earn an income any longer? You want to hear some real screams from Liberals. TAX WEALTH lay a levy on all monies over say a MILLION.
How do you think the Hollywood crowd would react if they have to pay 30% additional tax for every Million they get paid to do a movie?

No those tax increases hit the very people you seek to protect the Middle Class.

Here's how. The tax hikes you seek taxes income, since small business owners PAY THEMSELVES an income from the profits of that business they get taxed at a higher rate. Now some might argue that if you own a small business, typically defined as under 50 employees, that we are not in the Middle Class any longer, I totally disagree. If I am taxed at a higher rate and my business is taxed at a higher rate and my Healthcare expenses are going up then I have less free capital to invest in my employees or equipment.

I cannot hire extra people, I spend less money and I put off any expansion I am planning. Thus the real Middle Class is harmed.

Raising taxes on the Rich is a feel good effort only. The real effects will be felt on the Middle Class not the Rich.

Gort
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OofU, we already know the tax

OofU, we already know the tax code favors the rich. It makes your argument about “class warfare” on the rich even more pathetic.

Observerofu
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Gort just pointing out how specious your side arguments are

and from your response I'm doing a good job of it.

Gort
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OofU, today being Sunday,

lets just say, “You’re a legend in your own mind,” and leave it at that.

Davids mom
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The greatest generation

That's what they called the adults who occupied the United States during the war effort of WWII- and all worked together during the war - and we were united. Even the 'rich' aren't complaining like you possible six figure earners who think you're the defenders of the rich. Calling for everyone to contribute is not 'class warfare'. Since when are 'some' better than others - unless you support some type of 'royalty' culture. Americans should all be willing to pull together to correct the mess we"re in. . . and work to make sure we never get in this mess again. But I understand there is a different understanding of 'working together'. It's just that the trickle down strategy didn't work - and in some communities more than 20% of our citizens have been out of work. We need to take the politics out of solving this economic mess and put Americans to work!
The next election - the winner will have convinced the American people that jobs are coming. Who will it be?

rmoc
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Selfishness

Sorry, but most people are not selfless and this attitude is shared poor and rich...I have met both poor folks who will do what ever they can to get what they want instead of trying to work for it and rich folks who take advantage of everyone and everything.

The TV culture has created a generation of lazy ignorant folks...20% unemployment...well I just spent 2 weeks interviewing people, resumes mispelled...unwilling to travel and work the required hours, lying about their skill sets ..I feel sorry for hiring managers because it is painful...the new world requires skills for jobs because all the unskilled labor is in China (AGAIN I CAN NOT STRESS "BUY AMERICAN MADE").

kevink
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Rmoc. Again I agree.

Buying american makes such good sense on so many levels. Its the same reason I shop at Gilroys got it. I want to see them around . Exception for the 1 series M and the Audi TT RS. Buy German! They're in NATO. That counts, right? Gotta rest up for tomorrows surfin. If im blogging tomorrow night i havent drowned or been killed by my board.

AtHomeGym
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DMom & "The Greatest Generation"--Real Hope & Change

Need a lift? Pick up a cy (or visit your local library) of the Aug 29 issue of Time Magazine and read their featured article "The NEW Greatest Generation--How young war veterans are redefining leadership at home". All I can say is that if you don't get a "tingle up your leg, ah la Chris Matthews", you need some serious help! These returning vets may be our best hope for escaping the doldrums we seem mired in. First, we should be so proud of their service but to have them come home and do great things, including being willing to continue to serve in other ways, is simply a trademark of our society and I wish them all success and hope we see a whole passel of them in elected positions throughout the country. God bless them all! Oh, and sorry for all you real political hacks---while they may elect one party of the other, they are not really political ideologues,but grounded in common sense, love of country, dedicated and focused men & women who do not mince words and mean what they say.

Davids mom
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Thanks AHG! This is worth

Thanks AHG! This is worth sharing. Here is our future! Hallelujah! Please take the time to see all of these wonderful Americans.

http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,2089255_2303660,00.html

This is the video that AGH is talking about! What a joy!
http://www.time.com/time/video/player/0,32068,1116738095001_2089305,00.html

Davids mom
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Deleted by poster

.

Observerofu
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Dmom you have to completely ignore facts

to make the statements you make.

Davids mom wrote:

Even the 'rich' aren't complaining like you possible six figure earners who think you're the defenders of the rich. Calling for everyone to contribute is not 'class warfare'.

Dmom those "Rich" that want to contribute more can. Each and everyone of the Buffet's out there can write that check. Funny how they don't.

btw-here is the ignoring point the "Rich" already pay more than everyone else. There is now a class of people that have no Federal tax liability. Almost 50% of American's don't pay a Fed tax but yet vote to increase tax on others.

Davids mom wrote:

Since when are 'some' better than others - unless you support some type of 'royalty' culture.

DM there will always "some" that are more talented then others in all aspects of life are they better then someone else? YES Life is not fair DM it never will be.

Davids mom wrote:

Americans should all be willing to pull together to correct the mess we"re in. . . and work to make sure we never get in this mess again.

The problem DM you guys are calling for only one class of American's to sacrifice for the betterment of all others. Just how is that "working together"?

Davids mom wrote:

It's just that the trickle down strategy didn't work - and in some communities more than 20% of our citizens have been out of work.

So how does "Trickle Up" work DM how does money taken from the productive and given to the non-productive create jobs? What jobs do the welfare recipient create?

Davids mom wrote:

We need to take the politics out of solving this economic mess and put Americans to work!
The next election - the winner will have convinced the American people that jobs are coming. Who will it be?

I thought you said politics had to be removed and yet the next winner would have to be a politician?

The solution is neither simple nor painless DM. We have to control Government not the other way around.

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Oosu & Dm

Somehow this debate reminds me of a true story from the Lewis & Clark expeditions.

I'm not sure of all the facts but it went something like this;

They were heading out on a new journey and there was one man on the team who was very over weight and throughout the first half of the exploration the rest of the men complained fervently that they should have never brought this guy along since the whole way out he was holding them up as they had to continually help him along the way to get through the hard parts of the journey.

Well on the return trip home the going got tough and everyone in the group was struggling to find enough to eat just to survive. They were all getting weaker and barely able to continue except for the man who was at first over weight and they found that he was the only one with the strength to help them all over the rough country on the return trip.

If they had initially left him behind then they all would have perished before returning home.

Davids mom
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BHH

Thanks for sharing. Everyone has something of importance to share - at some time. Cooperation may not be a dirty word after all. Oou may have an entirely different 'take' on this story. Different opinions are welcome in our country.. .and are valued in the US.

Davids mom
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Oou - My answer
Quote:

Funny how they don't

Many already have! Not everyone needs to publicize his or her donation.
:

Quote:

Almost 50% of American's don't pay a Fed tax but yet vote to increase tax on others

It would be nice if the poor actually comprised 50% of the American voting population - check who's voting. Average voter is not classified as 'poor'.
That 'better than others thing'. Some have expressed here that 'whites' are better than 'blacks'. Skin color doesn't designate if one is better - or do you think a 'caste' system is appropriate for the American way?
:

Quote:

The problem DM you guys are calling for only one class of American's to sacrifice for the betterment of all others.

That is not based on 'fact' or common sense. It was announced today that more Americans are applying for food stamps to feed their families. These are not 'lackadaisical' folk who don't want to work - these are Americans without a job! What sacrifices is the 1% of top earners in this country making? (as they take their profits from laying off workers or not providing jobs to the bank!)

Quote:

So how does "Trickle Up" work DM how does money taken from the productive and given to the non-productive create jobs? What jobs do the welfare recipient create?

Well - Tyler Perry has created a lot of jobs for a great number of people. As has Spike Lee, Johnny Cash, Willie Nelson and others who at one point in their life needed help. I do not support 'welfare' as a way of life - but I do support it for those who need help.

Politics? Remove the obstructive politics from Washington. Politics is a way of life - and should not be obstructive, but constructive when dealing with the lives of our citizens.

OOu - we are the government - and we have allowed it to get out of control by our non-involvement. VOTE!!

kevink
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Observer. When will u stop perverting our argument?

We support a balanced approach where everyone sacrifices. YOU support sacrifice for the poorest but protection of wealth by protecting historicaly low tax rates. Right?

Davids mom
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Oou
Quote:

The problem DM you guys are calling for only one class of American's to sacrifice for the betterment of all others. Just how is that "working together"?

You mean no one else is sacrificing? Have you been reading or watching TV? How is reforming the tax code etc. aimed at only one class of Americans? You are not a part of that class - or so you suggest. You are most fortunate if you have not felt some squeeze during the past 10 years . But continue to be the protectors of the 'upper class'. They are keeping theirs and taking yours! Wake Up!

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***sigh*** again

Both you Dmom and kevin have very little experience in the World of Business or economics that much is obvious.

Just answer one question please. What good will adding 5% or even 10% tax hike to the top 10% of the Wealth earners?

Please think about it and respond.

Davids mom
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oou - My answer (2)
Quote:

What good will adding 5% or even 10% tax hike to the top 10% of the Wealth earners?

How will it hurt? But will deleting the loopholes, etc. be just for the top 10%? I think a lot of so-called middle class wage earners have also taken advantage of some of these loop holes.

Observerofu
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How will it hurt Dm?

So it won't solve anything. It won't pay for even one program. So what will it hurt is your answer????

So we use the power of Government to take money from one particular class of Americans by the threat of force and your answer what would it hurt?

Well I suppose if we lived in a Socialist Country not much.

btw you said:

Davids mom wrote:

But continue to be the protectors of the 'upper class'. They are keeping theirs and taking yours! Wake Up!

How is the upper class taking mine? You mean by creating jobs and taking my labor for which we are paid?

Davids mom
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Oou

Any revenue will help the lowering of our deficit. At this point, are you suggesting we not take any steps toward solving the problem unless we have the total solution? Where were you ten years ago and before? If we just stand around and ring our hands and ruminate about our mistakes, we'll not get anywhere. In order to balance any budget, revenue is needed. If these sacred cows were actually 'job providers', your stand would make sense. These corporations are making money, that's their purpose. The tax breaks supposedly were to encourage job production. No jobs, then contribute to the needed revenue. Obviously, the unemployment problem is not effecting their bottom line.. .since they are outsourcing their 'jobs'. Weren't you the one who championed 'buy America'? I find your stands contradictory.

Please expound on your repetition of talking points. . . And I made a mistake - you have not championed 'made in America'.

Observerofu
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Dmom let's review

Ok let's review.

We are, using rounding, $15 Trillion in debt.

We are deficit spending of $1.7 Trillion per year.

If we raised the marginal tax rate of the top 10% of wealth earners (those that actually still earn a living) by the PROPOSED 4% then it would only create $321 BILLION.

LEAVING $1.4 TRILLION DOLLARS OF DEFICIT SPENDING PER YEAR

No entitlement program would be funded.

The debt would not be reduced.

Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid would still go broke.

So DM what good does it do, other then to make political points among those like you that strive to push class warfare as a means of shifting blame to yet another for this administrations errors?

We have a spending problem DM. No matter how much wealth they confiscate it will not be enough. They will just spend it. Raise the rates and they will just spend that too.

Eventually they will run out of "the rich" to take from then who will they come for?

Observerofu
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Dmom I am all for reforming the tax code

it is called a PROGRESSIVE tax code for a reason.

A Flat tax will force everyone to get some skin in the game.

Right now, however, half of Americans get to vote on raising taxes on the other half without having to pay those very taxes they voted for.

And yet you guys want that other half to pay their "fair" share. Just what is your idea of fair?

Davids mom
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Oou

Let's hope that through civil discussion, our congressional leaders can come up with a balanced approach. This rhetoric of taking from the rich to give to the poor makes a nice bumper sticker, but 72% of polled Americans disagree.

Git Real
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The Tea Party Can Go Straight To Hell
NUK_1
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The shared sacrifice myth

There is no shortage of voters and non-voters who think you can get the USA's fiscal house in order by simply taxing the rich more, closing loopholes for the rich and corporations, and voila! Problem solved. There is also even more politicians who frankly know this isn't in any way factual, but don't mind lying over and over and giving their constituents this ridiculously stupid premise. That's where the "class warfare" concept comes from: if we could just get those damn greedy rich people to pay their "fair share," then everything will be great! That's asinine.

Raise tax rates all you want and close every loophole(but only for the wealthy, not everyone else), and you still are struggling with tremendous deficits every year. How about a 1.3 trillion this year alone,even if you repealed every Bush tax cut ever passed?

People that want the rich to pay more taxes had better be ready to suck it up themselves because there is also no shortage of voters and non-voters that believe that's not a solution in and of itself, spending has to be cut deeply. The obvious solution is everyone suffers some, but politicians hate this and will never do it because their "side" suffers too if "everyone" has to sacrifice. That's not been the "American way" in decades.

One last thing: corporations in effect don't pay taxes to begin with: they simply pass those costs along downstream, all the way to the end-user level. You cannot compel them to pay more when they have this option or the other option of locating overseas. So, everyone with this dumb idea needs to rid themselves of it. The kind of corporations being talked about here are global in nature and will find ways around any subsidy or tax break that is eliminated. Whether that's picking up and moving out, the "Double Dutch sandwich" of moving money overseas first to avoid US taxes, or simply putting the "costs" on the buyers, that's the reality. What can and should be done is to stop screwing the small to medium size businesses in the US that aren't global, that don't have sleazy ex-politicians as paid lobbyists, and don't have political clout because they don't give gazillions in campaign contributions. Right now, they get no "carve-outs," subsidies or great tax breaks so they are disadvantaged when competing against the big boys who have the whole tax code and govt giveaway system written into law for their benefit. At minimum yank away the loopholes and subsidies to give the small/medium businesses a level playing field instead of an artificially created playing field designed by the govt. Sure, the big corps will get around the end of their freebies and beneficial treatment(by raising prices which comes with business risk), but at least you stop the shafting of all the rest of the businesses in the US that aren't allowed to compete in the free market effectively against government "approved" and subsidized competitors.

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NUK, I don't quite get your stance.

You are against the class warfare yet you end with a pro class warfare statement applicable to businesses.

The small businesses are mainly shut out by local government's regulation which treats them as if they are extremely profitable before they ever open their doors and takes advantage of the enthusiasm of the newbies to the business world which also effectively discourages their entry into the business world.

If this did not occur then people would be more able to create their own jobs and income streams which is what our schools need to teach our children to be doing.

All the rhetoric from democrats about creating jobs stinks because they only want to do that with tax money instead of education on self reliance.

We need to completely refocus our attention towards self reliance and avoid the pitfall of political control of our salvation.

There's no need to blame the rich or big corporations because that is what most self reliant people aspire to achieve.

NUK_1
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BHH: Big Business

I have no problem with huge corporations making huge profits. I do have a problem when they basically conspire with government in order to thwart ease of entry for competitors and also "buy" themselves carve-outs, loopholes and subsidies that aren't available to the non-huge corporations.

One of the main reasons for out of control health care costs is due to the above. States and state-approved insurance companies basically control the state market and heavily discourage competition. Another example is the largest of agribusinesses getting subsidies and all sorts of benefits that smaller agribusinesses or your local farming operation don't get. You even see the same type of scenario in the non-business aspect with how Repubs/Dems and govt all work together to make ballot access near impossible for political parties. Banks are another notorious group that attempts to buy politicians in order to prevent competition, especially if that competitor is named Wal-Mart who could turn

I don't think this is class warfare...I think it's big business buying-off the government in order to enrich themselves and to prevent competition from challenging them. That's gaming the system.

Gort
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Nuk_1, is it safe to say,

you are no supporter of “Tax-Increment Financing?” 8 - )

You probably already seen this but here you go anyway.

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=13095

If you download the PDF it has a table by state. I was mildly surprised how deep the state of Georgia is into this. No wonder school budgets are in the red, why we have too many Wal-Marts, and why the small businessman is being chased off Main Street. It’s that good old fashion crony capitalism at work!

BTW, Tax-Increment Financing is just one of my justifications against the “Fair Tax.” Can you imagine what the Washington, DC lobbyist could do with something like this? Why replace one corrupt system of taxation with another corruptible system.

NUK_1
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Gort: Not a fan at all of the Fair Tax either

Totally insane and devoid of all logic. We're going to do away with almost all taxes, put a 30% + or so consumption tax on everything, yet it's going to collect basically the same revenues as before but people will pay much less. Huh? I read both of the books and was astounded by the flaws of the whole idea, the most ludicrous being that most people will start the month with a "prebate" check from Uncle Sam. Gee, no way that could ever be manipulated by politicians! For people like Boortz and Linder who supposedly want very limited government, how does the govt writing checks to most of its citizens every month get defined as "limited" or even common sense? UGH.

I'd love to see the tax code radically streamlined and simplified, but then what would we do with all the CPA's and tax lawyers who suddenly become unemployed? Maybe we could outsource them to other countries who have a more convoluted tax code than the US.....wait, there aren't any. Oh well.

Gort
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Nuk_1, a CPA can really help

Nuk_1, a CPA can really help a business prosper and grow. Freeing them from tax avoidance duties would probably be a good thing for any business. As far as the tax lawyers go, well, they can run for president for the GOP/Teaparty or chase ambulances for all I care.

Not much of a chance of getting a streamlined and simplified tax code anytime soon but I'm still hoping for change. 8 - )

What’s your point of view on Tax-Increment Financing?

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Gort: Tax-Increment Financing

The theory is a lot better than some of the results and is like giving government the power to really screw up badly and cost its citizens for years. While some would say that it's not that much different than using long-term bonds as a financing mechanism, TIF's often get used by local govt's to benefit their "friends" and donors and can be an extreme example of developer welfare and sketchy deals.

The concept in and of itself has some merit, but it's like a handgun. In the hands of the right person, it's a useful tool. In the wrong hands, it's extremely dangerous to everybody. Overall, I'm not a fan as most examples that I have studied seem like developer welfare and tainting the marketplace of what is a public project and what isn't. There isn't any doubt in my mind that a good amount of these TIF projects should be done with private money and risk(or simply not done), not subsidized by the citizens and not doled-out by the government.

Gort
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Nuk_1, I pretty much agree

with you on the TIF. I’m curious if Ron Paul will bring up the Texas Enterprise Fund to Rick Perry at the next GOP debate next month.

I see Rick Perry is now leading the pack in the GOP polls, Mitt Romney second, Michele Bachmann third but the interesting thing is Jon Huntsman is starting to make his move from the back of the pack.

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That train has left the station, Nuk

I'm more enthused about the Fair Tax than you are, but neither of us has to worry about it becoming law or even discussed outside of some obscure little committee. Ditto with serious tax reform. The deep partisan divide that has taken over Washington and even the country the past 10 or 15 years will prevent any serious compromise discussion of anything. It used to be that Congress had some serious dedicated people working across party lines and behind the scenes to actually get things done. But no more. Not sure when or how that ended, but now these clowns are so tied to their party ideology and committed to playing gotcha and name-calling and of course addicted to TV sound bites that nothing will ever get done. No cuts, no savings, nor revisions of the tax code - just one more spending program after the other when one side or the other gets enough votes to cram something through.

Democrats had 2 years control over House, Senate and White House and they couldn't even do a budget. Now we are in transition back to Republican control in 2013 and I expect something out of them, but deep down inside I know I'll be disappointed in them as well.

Davids mom
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RWM

I think the 'truth' that you've just expressed will unite citizens to take a close look at whom they send to Congress in the future. We, as voting citizens, do have the power to stop this madness of ineffective governance. We can take it back from the special interests and lobbyists. The ballot box has more power than the money they spend on TV spots!

roundabout
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DM

No, we have the ballot box now, and we send to Washington those we feel are like us. Dumb or dumber. For instance, instead of Westmoreland, wouldn't it be better to send a generic Professor (for people) from Clayton State in PTC to Washington for two years, only?

What will definitely resolve it is "one term."

Davids mom
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Roundabout
Quote:

No, we have the ballot box now,

WE DON'T USE IT! Not when often less than 40% of a community votes!! Got to go enjoy the harmony in DC now as we celebrate MLK. Americans are here!! Nice feeling. Wish this could be duplicated with those who we elect to represent us! I would vote for Muddle!!

hutch866
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Dm

Couple questions for you, did you drive up and how long did it take? How's the traffic? We're bringing the hutchette up Thursday to go to school at George Washington, and don't know what to expect.

Davids mom
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DC today/Hutch

The traffic/attendance as of today is nothing like it was for the inauguration. We didn't drive. There is always 'traffic' around the university when school opens - filled with proud parents like you! Congratulations! The actual ceremony is the 28th - and I have no idea what the 'traffic' will be like. The university should be able to tell you about street closings (if any) and the best way to navigate around the university.

kcchiefandy
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Hate to break it to you...

...but some people ARE better than others. In the egalitarian-minded liberal side of our democracy there is the ever-present idea that all people are the same and all have the RIGHT to have everything the other guy has, and its not their fault if they didn't get it on their own. Nowhere in our constitution does it guarantee such; only the rights and freedom to pursue such. Life is not fair; some get a silver spoon, some struggle from day one. Some work their way up, some get it handed to them, some try and fail, some never try, some just get lucky - its just human nature and the way it is. Trying to legislate 'fairness' across the board is fruitless, and taxes aren't the end-all, be-all answer to the current crisis (flat tax fan here, btw).

While our national government can infuse the economy somewhat with projects (I do like the focus on rebuilding our infrastructure), it cannot turn the entire ship around. Economies grow & shrink; its the nature of capitalism. We will get through this, with or without Big Gov stepping in with a heavy hand. No one cannot feel for the trained and educated who lost jobs and are still searching. Those who didn't prepare for a work career are ALWAYS subject to the ebbs & flow of the economy, so unfortunately this will always be their lot if they don't change. Squeezing money out of any one economic class is just plain wrong.

Well, enough of the soap box. BTW, with unemployment at 10% (3-5% being normal turbulence), that means 9 of 10 people are working. There are many nations MUCH worse off than that!

roundabout
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kcchiefandy; the weird

Actually, only 50% of our citizens work for taxable wages. The 10% figure is concocted by the government to make us look better.

I agree that our infrastructure must be rebuilt or repaired. How we pay for it is the problem, isn't it? You and I must.

As to everyone being equal in fortunes is not the problem.
There is a certain minimum that every citizen should have: a job, enough for minimum food and shelter, health care if low wage, clothing adequate for the weather, and equal protection by the laws.

Leaving everyone to their accidental fortune is not even Biblical.

kevink
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Kcchiefandy. Stop making things up

Liberals arent out saying we shohld all have bill gates' house or tiger woods' yacht. We are talking about sharing the BURDON of fixing our country; not just the poor and middle class, but all of us. That being said, you certainly did not mention race and it seems a bit of a stretch to make your argument racial. Just my dos nuevos soles

Davids mom
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Right in America

All have the right to have the opportunity to use their skills to the best of their ability - and not be limited by race, gender, sexual preference, or where they live. I certainly support any and every white child to exercise this right. If they don't have the skill to succeed, the motivation to work hard, etc., etc., then they have not taken advantage of their 'right'. In the past few years, one doesn't have the 'right' just because they're 'white'. Some seem to be in shock that other then American whites are achievers.

kcchiefandy
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I missed it,...

...where this became a issue of color, in regards to my response. Just as w/ my uber-liberal sister when I tried to explain I did not vote for Obama due to his inexperience and platform, but she kept bring up him being black, I don't care about color, I care about how one conducts themselves and what the stand for.

Git Real
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LOL...EVERYTHING is about color....

Everything is about color with this woman and several others on this board. But it is fun to what them attempt to appear otherwise.

Davids mom
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Color - Git Who?

What about the statement I made in 2005 do you fail to comprehend? I joined this site to discuss race. I sometimes discuss other issues, but my main reason is to share my ideas on the subject of race. No one forces you to join in, you've made your position quite clear. . .and you're not alone. Please don"t stop expressing yourself. You're quickly becoming an extinct specimen .

Git Real
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I could be offended

But I consider the source.

Yes I know I am not alone. And if I am an extict specimen then this country is doomed. I represent the producers in this country of ANY color. You represent the excusers..... nuff said.

kcchiefandy
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DM, since I'm fairly new to this board...

...I did not know this was your intended purpose, to infuse race into every topic. The reasoning for your positions are much clearer now. Please give my regards to your brethren, Jesse and Al, who are in the same club.

Observerofu
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Dmom are you playing cards again?

Which card in the deck is actually the "Race" card?

Davids mom wrote:

All have the right to have the opportunity to use their skills to the best of their ability - and not be limited by race, gender, sexual preference, or where they live. I certainly support any and every white child to exercise this right. If they don't have the skill to succeed, the motivation to work hard, etc., etc., then they have not taken advantage of their 'right'. In the past few years, one doesn't have the 'right' just because they're 'white'. Some seem to be in shock that other then American whites are achievers.

DM just who are you talking about exactly?

Who are these shocked people that a non-white actually can make a living?

I believe all people here in America has that "Right" don't you think DM?

Davids mom
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Oou
Quote:

DM just who are you talking about exactly

YOU!! Your words exude racism, IMO. (and elitist thinking).

Observerofu
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Really DM I'm a Racist now?

Want to explain that one?

Is it because I disagree with you? I guess that must be it cause if you disagree with Obama then your a racist.

How does that work if I happen to be the same color as YOU DM? Am I still a Racist or just a Uncle Tom? Wanna call me an OREO DM?

I have already been called a Jew loving Anti-Semite. So I might as well be called a racist from the biggest race baiter on this board.

Davids mom
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oou

Great! Your 'coming out' to those who don't know you proves that the generalizations regarding 'black' people are rhetoric. Now you know Oou - blacks can be just as racist as whites - against their own, whites, and foreigners. As I reviewed our disagreements, they are based mainly on your conservative beliefs and my more liberal beliefs. No problem. When one states that their purpose is to discuss 'race' - it seems unfair to call them a 'race baiter'. Thanks for letting me know your 'color'. Doesn't make a hill of difference in my disagreements with your ideology - but does show those who want to lump all blacks in Fayette County under one banner that they need to rethink that train of thought. As far as I know - you may be a racist - just don't want to admit it so your colleagues will think you're one of the guys. That's fine. I sincerely believe that you are proud of who and what you are - as I am. It is great for others to see that not all blacks or all whites agree. One more point: The races here in America have more in common than some think. What did you think about the poster who stated that there are cultural differences between black and white Americans - as if that is a negative thing?

Git Real
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Funny Thing Is

She supports the rights of White Children to succeed as long as they are handicapped on the playing field. LOL.

Tell you what... If David's Mom's kid came to my company applying for a job and I knew who his mother was I would pass him over in a heartbeat. Not because of his color...but because of his closet racist mother.

Davids mom
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Git Real said

She supports the rights of White Children to succeed as long as they are handicapped on the playing field

This is what DM said:

Quote:

I certainly support any and every white child to exercise this right. If they don't have the skill to succeed, the motivation to work hard, etc., etc., then they have not taken advantage of their 'right'.

My sentence is convoluted - but I certainly did not say white children had to be handicapped to succeed.

This poster made it quite clear in his early postings that he had not found a 'black' qualified enough to work in his business - then expressed disappointment that he did not get a contract at the airport - which clearly states that projects that receive federal funds must follow federal guidelines. I suggested that he follow fed guidelines if he wanted fed (taxpayer) money. He's had his pants in a wad ever since. LOL

Davids mom
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Git

Check your lenders, and who is on their boards. Be very careful, this is a new day,

Git Real
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HUH?

Do you think I only conduct business with your perceived 'white supremist imaginary boogie men'? Be very careful???? And whom is threatening whom? No doubt you would love to be able to sic your gumament and your self promoting politically correct will on someone like me as a means to cause failure to myself and other successful people regardless of any negative consequences it might have on our economy and those that benefit from the risk taking that are associated with our ventures.

I live with threats and intimidation daily from mentally ill people like you who are envious and full of hate and bitterness because I am of a color and gender not of their liking. But what you fail to realize it is not my color or my gender that causes me success...it is my determination to succeed. That is something you cannot force out of me.

I can assure you. My lenders are quite happy with the performace of the entities that I captain. Gawd how I know that must drive you nuts....

Davids mom
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Git, Oou, PTCO

You guy either are limited in comprehension, or very fearful of losing your own perceived superiority as being 'white'. IMO, anyone over 53 has been exposed to racist practices - and may be racist. From these discussions I have learned that not all white males are racist. Git - don't ever threaten harm to a mother's son. You are not protected by law or Divine intervention when it comes to a women protecting her child . God bless.

PTC Observer
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DM - You

are amazing, you should look in the mirror if you want to identify a racist.

You are WAY off base with me Lady.

You have no idea who you are calling a racist.

However, I forgive you. I am on my way to DC this weekend, how about you?

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
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Joined: 10/30/2005
DC/PTCO

Already here! MLK'S principles do not include us calling each other racist. We'll just have to do better.

Git Real
Git Real's picture
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Joined: 05/17/2006
David's Mom Must Be Mentally Ill......

Superiority As Being "white"???? Oh please lady. Is that what you think us 'white folk' fret about? LOL....

Threaten your son??? Lady...you are a nutcase. NOBODY threatened you son. I just said I wouldn't hire him because of his being YOUR son fearing him to be a goofball like his mother. Lady you are truly nuts. You see only what you want to see and you fabricate what you want others to be so they fit your perception of who you want to believe them to be. Get yourself some help.

anyone over 53 has been exposed to racist practices - and may be racist

Well the leaves me out. I'm scott free. I avoided that category.

My God lady.... Listen to yourself. Do you ever really think about what you pen? You are so full of hate and blame with such a desirous attitude of revenge about you. People you condemn such as myself, OOU, PTCO and others, belive it or not, would delight in seeing the black community succeed in business and personal finance. WTF lady??? Do you think we get a kick out seeing middle class black families slide backwards financially at a higher rate than their white counterparts? Lady I am troubled and saddened for EVERYONE that has been victimized by the callous policies of the past and present elites and politicians that have created an evironment that has driven our manufacturing base overseas and is causing the demise of employers in an unprecidented manner. This is serious freaking business and all you do as you 'self admit' is harp about freaking race all the time. You are one sick puppy lady....

You are a sock puppet shrill stirring up &%*@ and causing division and hatred among the races while pretending to be some wonderful bridge builder between the races. You foster contempt and distrust and justify inequality and hatred as some sort of tool to get back at others for you inability to actually forgive, forget and move in a true spirit of healing and cooperation between the races. You have no credibility here in regards to race relations. You as you confess above.... are a racist and I will add... a bigot.

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