Taxes and the meaning of Obama’s ‘shared sacrifice’

Lance McMillian's picture

President Obama is right. When he talks about the “Bush tax cuts,” the President bemoans the fact that these cuts inequitably distribute the tax burden among Americans. Instead of this inequality, he argues that we need to return to tax rates that promote “shared sacrifice” and ensure that all of us pay our “fair share” of earnings to the federal government. True enough.

But President Obama is not right in the way he thinks he is right. When the President speaks of “shared sacrifice,” he means that “the rich” do not pull their weight and keep too much of their money for themselves rather than sending it to the government for the common good.

The actual facts about the Bush tax cuts, however, paint a startlingly different picture than the one the President articulates in his speeches. The cuts apply to all American income-earners and remove millions and millions from the obligation of paying any income taxes.

Indeed, half of Americans now pay no federal income taxes at all. Additionally, through the earned income credit, 30 percent of Americans receive tax refunds for taxes they do not even pay.

So who, then, is paying taxes to the federal government? The rich. In everyday terms, “fair share” would mean a rough equivalency between the percentage of taxes paid and the percentage of income earned. Based on this definition, the rich do not pay their fair share. They pay far more.

Here are the numbers: The top 1 percent earn 19 percent of the income but pay 38 percent of the taxes. The top 5 percent earn 33 percent of the income but pay 57 percent of the taxes. The top 25 percent earn 66 percent of the income but pay 85 percent of the taxes.

These figures show two things. First, the top income earners pay a disproportionately high share of all income taxes. Second, the higher up on the income ladder one goes, the greater the share of all income taxes that person pays.

To hear President Obama tell it, however, high-income earners pay hardly anything in taxes while those on the lower end of the economic spectrum are forced to carry the burden for all of us. As the facts bear out, the reality is exactly the opposite.

Now it may very well be that our present inequitable system of making high-income earners pay a higher proportion in taxes than they earn in income is sound public policy. That is a different debate for another time. The point here is that the President’s rhetoric is totally divorced from the truth and highlights the hollowness of his platitudes on this issue.

Does a call for “shared sacrifice” have any real meaning when the President directs his ire toward those who already pay twice their pro rata share in taxes and yet leaves other income earners who pay nothing untouched? How much more do the rich have to pay to reach their “fair share”?

President Obama’s deception goes deeper still when he blames our debt problem on a small minority of citizens holding the country “hostage” by refusing to raise taxes on the rich. Not so.

The top federal income tax bracket now sits at 35 percent. Even if we doubled this rate to 70 percent, the United States would still have roughly a trillion-dollar deficit. That’s trillion with a “t.”

Taxes aren’t the problem; spending is. Why then the unrelenting focus on taxing the rich?

Not because of economic policy. Rather, the push for tax increases on the rich is philosophical, primal even. The prevailing mindset of the American Left is that success is the product of fortuity, not achievement. If fate determines income, as this viewpoint believes, then the rich have no moral claim to the money they earn.

This line of thinking is the path to financial misery. All of us should take heed of the writer Robert Heinlein’s warning that the standard of living to which we in America are accustomed is not the natural state of the world:

“Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.

This is known as ‘bad luck.’”

Heinlein is kidding at the end, of course. Bad luck has nothing to do with it. Punishing success is a choice.

It is also economic suicide — for the rich, poor, and middle-class alike.

[Lance McMillian is a Fayette County resident and law professor at Atlanta’s John Marshall Law School.]

suggarfoot
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in answer to you saying a black was attacked

cause he was black..

look at this...38 attacks in Denver alone on whites singled out. At least one killed.

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid34762914001?bckey=AQ~~,A...

kevink
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Correct Sugarlips. That is my point. We are not in race eutopia.

I am reminded each trip I make to good ole missippy.. And often when reading the C. Maybe D's M has a point after all, yeah?

Joe Kawfi
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kevink

So kevin/hack/diva/weasel/jaggoff, are you saying that you get physically assaulted by people of another race every time you visit Mississippi, or are you actually comparing these serial racist assaults in Colorado to someone looking at you cross-eyed or huwts your tenduw wittle feewings?

kevink
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Ask me the next time you see me Joek

I'll be more than happy to explain.

Joe Kawfi
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kevink - please call me to discuss this

404-260-1318

Looking forward to hearing your explanation.

Joe Kawfi
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kevink - still waiting for your call

call me Hack/Diva/kevink.... or whatever you are

404-260-1318

kevink
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Joekawfi. I was taken aback by "please" in your request.

But ain't no way you're getting my number. I may look stupid but I am. I mean not. Well. I mean... anywho, show your face at the next get together and you'll have my undivided attention. Count on that.

Joe Kawfi
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Diva-Hack-kevink-weasel

Jaggoff - whatever.

I didn't ask you to provide your phone number. I asked you to call me to have a conversation.

C'mon little man - let's chat.

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kevink, hears you wetback answer

As per Wikipeda, "The word has now broadened and is now used to refer to any foreign nationality immigrating illegally to the U.S. Alternatively, the term refers to early use of mexican laborers as farm workers."

Any other questions Mr. Racist?

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Kevin & Guy at McDonalds

Kevin, when he said that to you, you should have said "Well, they don't really, I just warm'em up for the real pilots---and I wear this when I clean the toilets! Or you coulda just told him you were from Tuskegee----Naw, don't guess that woulda registered!

kevink
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Athomebruthafromanothermother. I was so caught off guard.....

Your comment is funny cause he said something about me washing the planes along with some other mumblings. All I could say was get the hell away from my car. But it didnt make me hate anyone. No anger towards those who looked like him, or wore the same IZOD shirt. I would like to think that I've earned the disdain I receive from others; not some dude that did bad stuff and just happens to have a matching paint sample ;-)

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I find the best way around racism...

...is to hate EVERYBODY, first, then individually accept - or not - the likes of them, based on their actions. This happens quite a lot when driving in & aroung Atlanta... ;)

kevink
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KchiefAndy. Thats just funny right there.

I'm gettin better. Haven't bliwn my horn in months :-)

kevink
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KchiefAndy. Thats just funny right there.

I'm gettin better. Haven't bliwn my horn in months :-)

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KevinK

I think you need to give blame where it is due. At the center of every conversation that for no apparent reason turns into a discussion of race...sits David's Mom. She has made the statement time and time again that was her motive for being on the board. What you have witnessed over and over is that people get so tired of her baiting...they take her own. People have decided they will not sit here and take her constant needling. She keeps on till she causes a backlash. I feel that the civil rights movement was the most exciting, and perhaps only, event in her life and she wants to relive it here on these boards. She WILL NOT let people move on. She is gonna force feed it to them on a daily basis if it is the last thing she does. Unfortunatly for her, people have other ideas. She has been told repeatedly that if she intends to further blacks, what she does here day in and day out is extremely counter productive to that end. Yet, knowing that, she proceeds full steam ahead.

When I have said I don't owe blacks etc, I mean it. I can remember one conversation with you where you wanted me to give you my kids or grandkids as slaves. You mentioned it again only a few days ago. What kind of answer do you think you will get out of someone who just told you they don't owe you? You have made comments right up there with David's Mom, only more flippant.

Your whole writing above goes into a pitty party. How do you think anyone will take you seriously when the meat of what you say above is 'poor me..you owe me'.

As I stated before, I simply do not. As I've said many times before, 1st for life slaves in this country were Irish Slaves and Indians. You have been given quota deals and put at the head of the line for over 50 years now and it is getting old. Irish nor Indians, got that kind of deal. Neither might I add have the Orientals, Mexicans, or Arabs.

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kevin, sugarfoot - Fayette County

Shared some of these comments with friends who are here (DC) from Atlanta. (Black and white) They shook their heads and said, "No matter what you try to tell us about your experience in Fayette County, we know that not much has changed." I have showed them other comments, since I don't want them to feel that this racist rhetoric represents all of the citizens from this county. The comment by KC regarding 'hating everybody' - and the misconception about 'head of the line' is still being discussed as I type. The comments made in the discussion in the Citizen are tame compared to other sites on the web that are so filled with hate towards minorities and women. In our country, we have the privilege of expressing our ideas. We also have the privilege of answering ideas that express lingering hate. So you see KC and Sugarfoot, I, just like you have the right to continue to respond to your hateful rhetoric. YOU DON'T HAVE TO READ WHAT YOU CONSIDER MY HATEFUL RHETORIC. I have stated that I will continue to express my hopes for this country, my experience in this country and county past and present, and my concern for the political situation in this country. Gosh, it's great to be in the company of secure Americans who can deal with the past, enjoy the progress that we have made to the present, and hope for continued success for the future. God bless Fayette County. Continue to represent the new, integrated south.

kcchiefandy
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DM, didn't you see...

...my 'wink' - ;) It was directed at ignorant ATL/GA drivers~!

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kc

I answered your comment about miitary foreclosures. The answer is being held for review by The Citizen. You may want to check for yourself: New York Times; Wall Street Journal; military.com; msnbc.msn.com Just enter Military foreclosures. ;-) back at ya.

kcchiefandy
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DM, Uncle Sam is on it...and has been

Please see below. While there are certainly some sad individual cases, of the articles I found on Google, many are simply victims of poor choices in financing, or the article doesn't specify WHY they are in foreclosure. The unique requirement to relocate often, comparitively, does cause some stress, but purchasing a home is still the servicemember's individual decision. The deflation of the housing market has hit all hard, military or civilian:

'The issue has caught the attention of Congress, which included language in the economic stimulus package to compensate service members who sell their home at a loss or have been foreclosed upon because they were forced to move after a base closure, reassignment or a combat wound required them to be relocated near a health facility. The program also covers surviving spouses of those killed in combat.

Under the new provision, the government will cover 95 percent of a loss if a service member is forced to sell. The government can also choose to acquire the title of a home by paying off the balance of a service member's mortgage or paying the owner up to 90 percent of the home's previous value. No dollar ceiling has been set.

The $555 million undertaking expands the Defense Department's Homeowners Assistance Program, which helps military and federal personnel whose homes have lost value because of a base closure. The new measure would likely help the Diazes, and would expand the homeowner assistance program to as many as 17,000 claims, according to the office of Sen. Tim Johnson (D-S.D.), who sponsored the measure.'

Davids mom
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KCchiefandy

. . . and Chase has apologized and made restitution. Sad that this even happened. . .and yes, it has been taken care of. We must keep our eyes on how our service men and women are treated. (The airlines that charged our returning men and women extra for their luggage have also changed their policies) Someone mentioned how we have become selfish - rich and poor - and take advantage of others for the almighty dollar. The 'right thing' is on the books - we just have to be vigilant that the proper procedures are followed. (I'm not sure how long the GA drivers are going to be able to maneuver the 'roundabout' without having an accident. Some think the yield sign means 'stop' - some ignore the sign altogether. The DC folks seem to have mastered the skill - but it is a little scary.

kcchiefandy
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DM, they did...

...along w/ BOA and a couple other biggies. I believe the general rule now (and may be law; not sure) is to not effect any foreclosure proceedings while a service member is deployed, but they'll still have to face their responsibility upon return. Funny you mentioned DC; I lived there for 3 years and for what I remember to be twice the traffic as ATL, they were MUCH better drivers, overall, than those I suffer here!

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if you were white....

you would have been kicked off by the paper for keeping something going....as is...oh well.

I don't doubt you showed these comments to your friends...birds of a feather...I really don't care.

As long as you come on here with your total slanted BS...people will correct you like they would a child. In fact they would look more favorably on a child because they would know there might be hope.

You are a mean old hold over from the Civil rights movement and you are only an icon in your own mind. Anyone who wants to pull her own race back into the 60s for self gratification is sad.

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suggarfoot, you are very confused. I never mentioned your kids

I believe that was Ninja. Take it up with him.

I did mention your ratial characterization of Delta which was very inaccurate. I don't know what credibility you have, at this point, to paint yourself as being above Davidsmom.

suggarfoot
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I will repeat

I went out to Delta and on the way to the gate...saw no white ground workers. What happened to the rights of whites to get a job out there?

When I came back, I came into A in the evening and made a point to look at every gate. There were only 2 white agents out of all those gates. That my friend is a VERY accurate picture.

I will also say that I saw a supposed Delta supervisor, dressed like a rag a muffin. She had on a red jacket with 2 pockets pinned on, and a pair of tight blue jeans over a very large butt. The jeans were rolled up, inside out, at the ankle. I would find it very hard to take someone seriously dressed like that. I am not disparaging Delta...they know these people are dressed this way...they only have to go look.

I can remember when being hired at Delta was an honor and they had the creme of the crop. It would however, be a joke to say the same of what I saw.

I think any weekley commuting business man (if there are any left) would agree that to be an accurate assessment of the workers.

Cyclist
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suggarfoot

I suspect your bias and your rather myopic view complement one another.

kevink
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Sugarrfoot. I understand u are frustrated.

And I find your candor refreshing. It's hard to get folks to say what they really think. So, thank you for opening yourself up to criticism. First delta. There is a reason u see black faces on the ramp by and large. It is hot. Or cold. Or rainy work; with low wages. Now go upstairs in the airport, or to the pilot or flt attendant lounge. Or go to the headquarters bldg. You'll be happy to know the highly compensated jobs are still predominately white. It seems you want the black jobless rate even higher than it is.

Now, please notice something about davidsmom. She often talks of parties and people working together. Its not all confrontational. Can all bloggers say that? We have some who I swear have never made a positive comment.

Again, I think you're lashing out to an extent due to anger. Otherwise I dont think you'd be mentioning the size of an agent's rump. Anyway, big hug and kiss to you, and I will join u in retiring this subject.... Until the next time we drag it out and beat it to death. Cheers, and thanks for being honest about your opinions

suggarfoot
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when i said I saw not a white face in site

I wasn't looking out the window..I was looking INSIDE at the gates. I said ...at the gates..in the gates...not outside on the tarmack.

As far as the ramp..there are/was whites out there but I haven't looked in years...will next time.

As far as the GO...NACCP and Sharpton struck there years ago. Lots and Lots of Blacks there...you see...I've been there too. Many many times.

kevink
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My mistake Suggarfoot. When you said 'white ground workers,'

I thought you actually meant ground workers. My bad. Soo, how big was ole girl's rear? You didn't catch a look at the name, did you? Hook a brutha up ;-)

rmoc
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Pilots...what a stereotype

LOL Kevink ...you giving pilots a bad name you dog :)

kevink
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RMOC. I have no idea what you're talking about.

I just want to loan her my Turbo Jam DVDs :-D

suggarfoot
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hA HA KEVIN

OK TRUCE!

Observerofu
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kevin are you not guilty of what you accuse?

Just wondering because you just lumped one persons actions to a whole group and alluded that the whole had the same attitudes?

Just wondering.

Streets do happen to run both ways you know.

Shall we discuss the attacks on Condoleezza Rice? Shall we go over the cartoons showing her as a picaninny from the DNC, Media Matters and the Huffington? How many times did you post that this was wrong?

You know that selective outrage you guys seem to have sure has a whopping blindside.

kevink
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Observer. Pretty confusing openner you had.

I didn't lump anyone anywhere. My point was clearly made. We are not "past" racial issues in this country.

It is a two-way street. You didn't see the "biracial" and "bipartisan" in my post? Observer, did you even read my post or just reflexively counter a point I didn't even make?

Davidsmom is not the sole source of racial feather ruffling. Any attempt to portray Davidsmom as "THE ONLY" blogger stirring up racial issues is not honest, and the attempt to portray our President as THE source of a racially divisive political atmosphere is myopic.

Questions?

Observerofu
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Noticed kevin

you didn't touch the Condie issue that's ok why let facts spoil a good story.

Oh the lumping thingy was the teaparty responsible for that photo kevin?

DO you know if it was ALL of the groups in every State or isolated to one group?

Was it everyone in the teaparty group or just one?

Just wondering since you associated all of the teaparty members to that one incident.

Nah you didn't lump anyone together kevin.

kevink
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Observerofu. I think I undersand what drives you.

You need to be right. Check this out.

I didn't touch Condeleeza Rice because I agree. As I said originally, it is Bipartisan. I said denile is a river even I have to cross. You are right.

Why did I say the signs mentioned were at Tea Party rallies? Because they were, That is factual. One was at a ralley in Washington where a man with "Universal Healthcare now" was assaulted, and his sign was ripped up. Thr Tea Partiers were offended by THAT sign, but not the one that said, quoting here, "There is an African lion in the zoo and an African lying in the white house." The woman holding that needed no police escort.

At any rate, you're right. Problem solved and case closed.

Observerofu
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Not true

the incident of which you speak did not occur at a teaparty sponsored event and the two signs were not related.

You can not use one incident to tar a movement. Are all Union members Communist kevin?

Communist(CPUSA) marched with Unions in Wisconsin kevin so using your logic all union members are therefore communist.

It doesn't work and it doesn't follow kevin, but I get your point.

btw-you don't mind being right either do you?

Joe Kawfi
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Oou - don't waste your breath

DM and Kevin have read the DNC/Media Matters talking points, are listening to Maxine Waters and the "Rev" Jackson and made up their minds long ago that all conservative whites are a bunch of racists because we don't like the fact that Obama is destroying our country.

Davids mom
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Quote: all conservative
Quote:

all conservative whites are a bunch of racists because we don't like the fact that Obama is destroying our country.

Oou has announced that he is a person of color. Just wanted you to be accurate Joe.

Observerofu
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Not the first time DM

remember the time when you said I was not dark enough to understand because my father is white and my mother is black?

Or did you forget?

btw-Am I still a racist?

Davids mom
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Oou -

What??? I just learned you were a person of color. Don't care at all about your heritage. You answered me earlier. What are you on? Dark enough? What is that all about? (Or are you just high and forgot about what you have written here?) AHG was the one who insinuated that you may be a person of color - and you validated it. That was YESTERDAY! When did you ever reveal this before and share the race of your parents? Hey guys/gals - stick to the truth. It's easier to remember. btw - I already apologized for calling you a racist since our previous discussions were centered on politics - not race. Oh well.

Observerofu
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Ok DM I will dig up the post later

You said it but I have learned you do tend to say a lot.

Davids mom
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oou -

Don't bother. You just want to drag this conversation out - and I don't believe you are who or what you say you are. I will not be responding to you or suggarfoot. Have a nice day!

Observerofu
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Then why did you respond-Addendum

if you are not going to respond?

DM I will have to say you are a class act. Haven't seen views like yours since the 60's.

When you catch up come on back I will be here to counter your arguments with salient points.

Follow-up:
DM after sleeping on it I want to add one thing to "our" conversation. You see I think your problem is that I AM black. You act like you did not know this although it has been discussed before and others certainly knew it.

I think it came to a head when you threw that wet blanket charge of "you're a racist" out as a deterrent to a continued disagreement with your ideas.

I have met you or at least people like you all my life. Your attitude is exemplified in our President. It is always someone else's fault never your own. That is the message I have heard my entire life. A black man can't get ahead because the white man is holding him down, but yet then the white man allows substandard teachers to pass that black man through school cause gosh knows no one wants to be seen as racist now would they?

Here in Alabama in the early 80's the teacher competency standards were lowered because blacks couldn't pass the test. So instead of getting competent teachers no matter the color they lowered the standards.
The predictable results were, we had a decade long slide of black youths being passed through the system most incapable of reading or even working on an average scale. The black community continued to be disenfranchised and once again the ills of our community was blamed on white suppression.

The real problem DM is us. You and I and everyone like us. The black community.

We allow white guilt to give us that hand out. To make us dependent on Welfare to enslave us because they have taught our young men that they just can't make it on their own.

Your attitude of everything is whities fault harbors it's own racist attitudes that have pushed an entire generation into a apathetic existence
doomed to continually hold their hand out for their sustenance.

Look at kevink DM a black man who is a pilot-I own two businesses and employ over 50 people.

Look to your own city DM. Look in your own neighborhoods many affluent neighborhoods have a large population of black families. The days of the 60's are over. Is there racism to be found? Yes but you have to look really hard for it today and you have to want to.

Why would you want to? Only to keep alive the divisiveness of the past.

AtHomeGym
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OofU, KevinK & Success

MARK my words, "Success Breeds Success"---while I don't know your family history (other than what you have revealed here), I DO know something about Kevin's. Kevin's Father had a successful military career, another career as a city employee and is now a multi-term Mayor of that same city. When Kevin asks why so many young black men get caught up in crime, he needs to realize that his Father was and is extremely successful and that many young black men today don't even know who their Father is--and therein lies the difference. Can you chalk that up to a morality issue? Perhaps--I've always thought morality is something learned from parents and neighbors--and that may not be the answer, but it would be a good start. I think Cosby's got it right too--if only folks would listen to him and behave accordingly. Kevin and I grew up not many miles apart and even closer as far as family values were concerned. We may have been poor but not in the things that mattered most. BTW OOfU, I knew long ago you were not Caucasian because we have a mutual friend.

kevink
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Athomegym. This is a post folks could save in their favorites!

" many young black men today don't even know who their Father is"

Tragic, sad, and very true.

" Kevin and I grew up not many miles apart and even closer as far as family values were concerned."

Tragic, sad, and also very true :-D. You're a tie that binds, Athome. THANK YOU!!

AtHomeGym
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OofU, KevinK & Success

MARK my words, "Success Breeds Success"---while I don't know your family history (other than what you have revealed here), I DO know something about Kevin's. Kevin's Father had a successful military career, another career as a city employee and is now a multi-term Mayor of that same city. When Kevin asks why so many young black men get caught up in crime, he needs to realize that his Father was and is extremely successful and that many young black men today don't even know who their Father is--and therein lies the difference. Can you chalk that up to a morality issue? Perhaps--I've always thought morality is something learned from parents and neighbors--and that may not be the answer, but it would be a good start. I think Cosby's got it right too--if only folks would listen to him and behave accordingly. Kevin and I grew up not many miles apart and even closer as far as family values were concerned. We may have been poor but not in the things that mattered most. BTW OOfU, I knew long ago you were not Caucasian because we have a mutual friend.

Observerofu
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AHG I know kevink is a good guy

just by his post. He thinks, ok most of the time, before he post but most importantly he feels passionately about which he post. Oh he is more wrong then he is right but I really don't hold that against him. I would love to buy him a beer and talk about "things" for awhile.

About that "other" guy haven't seen him in a while. He is supposed to be here Thursday for some training and an audit. Without him I can't keep the EPA off my back. I have enough to do without them.

Davids mom
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OOu and communication

Let's communicate - civilly. I will be happy to respond to the posts that you perceive as blaming the 'white man' for race relation problems. Oou - just us having this conversation confirms that 'racism' is not an element of the past. When a 'black' man was elected president, there were people who went ballistic in 2008. And racism has raised its ugly head - almost like the '60's. . . .we have the law to protect citizens today. We didn't have that in the 60's. The black community and many of its leaders have not denied its responsibility for many of the problems of race-relations . . or the responsibility to address these problems. I know that you are doing your part by mentoring those black children who need a black male role model. I know that you are participating in organizations that are giving educational assistance to those who need it. To look at the less than 10% of the black community that lives in affluent neighborhoods - and feel that this validates that 'racism' is not 'found' in our society - is difficult to hear. . .when you know that is not true and so many whites are aware of the racism that exists towards blacks and whites. Let's talk. It may be beneficial for others and us.

Quote:

Only to keep alive the divisiveness of the past.

A very interesting statement from a 'black man'.

Also please share those posts that identified you as a man of color before this week. Sorry I missed them.

Observerofu
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Dm

Yes it is an interesting statement. That's why I made it. You see too many in our community want to keep us separate and hostile. We have too many so called "leaders" telling us we can't get ahead, we can't do it, we can't this or can't that. They tell us these things so that we will keep them fat and happy while the young men in community suffer from a low self-esteem and low expectations that they live down to daily.

You see DM this is why I disagree with your philosophy of keeping "race" a issue. It's used as an excuse for poor outcomes. A young brother fails high school it was his white teachers. He fails to find a job it was the white establishment he lands in jail it was white suppression.

Dm it is your right to use race as an issue but I honestly feel you do so at the peril of disenfranchising our community just a little bit more.

Davids mom
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Observerofu
Quote:

We have too many so called "leaders" telling us we can't get ahead, we can't do it, we can't this or can't that. They tell us these things so that we will keep them fat and happy while the young men in community suffer from a low self-esteem and low expectations that they live down to daily.

There are leaders who try to ‘pimp’ the black community – but the majority of the black community are not listening to them. The young blacks that I encounter are looking up to Obama and the road that he took – while obviously being a ‘black’ man. As for the low, pant sagging brothers on the street – most do not have positive black male role models. This has been discussed here. Any youngster, black or white, needs a positive role model in his life. I think it’s safe to say most ‘hear’ MLK and Malcolm. Both had areas of disagreement – but both demanded that blacks perform to the best of their ability. . .and not except the ‘can’t’ word.

Quote:

You see DM this is why I disagree with your philosophy of keeping "race" an issue. It's used as an excuse for poor outcomes. A young brother fails high school it was his white teachers. He fails to find a job it was the white establishment he lands in jail it was white suppression.

If my slip is showing, I have to be told because I’m the only one that can fix it. The organizations that I work with are constantly pointing out to those who have chosen the ‘street’ life that it is hard to change – but they can do it. The middle class black child of today is closing the achievement gap and is pretty much on par with the white child of similar background. There are very few black children in today’s middle class – and with the middle class shrinking in today’s economy, those of us who can have to reach out and help/support those children who don’t have the middle class background. (Support=being there to encourage them) All of us, regardless of our political/social ideology have to address the ‘race’ issue in this country and continue to work with our community to prepare a higher percentage of contributing citizens. All communities, regardless of race, will lose some of their young to the streets. We lose too many. As we are ‘cleaning our own house’, we have to let other communities know that we are holding high expectations for our own – and they will be there to compete in the adult world. In 2011, despite what some have said here – there are qualified blacks, women, and other minorities who are better qualified than some whites and are hired on their ability to contribute. Being bi-lingual is a big plus in the business world – and those communities who belittle those who speak two or more languages are short-changing their children. Bi-lingualism is a plus on a resume. (And some indication that you have had experience with those of a different nationality – and a respect for all Americans) Racist attitudes will be a minus.

Quote:

Dm it is your right to use race as an issue but I honestly feel you do so at the peril of disenfranchising our community just a little bit more.

Our community is not disenfranchised. (We have the right to vote) Race is an issue – and I respect your right to feel that I hurt the black community by discussing it. My concern is the American community – because this attitude is a blight on our credibility throughout the world of people of color.

kevink
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Not at all Jokeawfi

I simply don't like you because you are an anonymous coward that loves to insult people and their families, yet are afraid of the light of day. That's all. Nothing to do with Maxine Waters at all.

Joe Kawfi
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Well, Kevin

You are nothing but a little whining weasel, so what's your point? I never mentioned race in my comment about the worthless punks that steal from others. It's just that you, like David's Mom, read race into everything.

kevink
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Jokeawfi, my friend. You mentioned reparations in the post.

So I am adding dishonest to your earned rank of coward.

Joe Kawfi
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Diva, Hack, KevinK

Or whatever you call yourself this week.

I never mentioned race in my remark as you claimed I did - that makes you a little lying jaggoff.

Are you saying that white people aren't eligible for reparations? Why that's racist!

suggarfoot
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sky thanks for the link

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/aug/19/obama-whites-need-not-ap...

I'm sorry to say I voted for Obama. Now he has lost my vote forever. The article makes it very plain the best qualified won't get the job. That is true discrimination! The article also clearly states that whites are already UNDER represented!

I've called Federal agencies already and got some very unqualified people who seem to spend all their time watching the clock. We have turned into a 3rd world country.

The summation says it all.
"Mr. Obama has squandered his chance to lead America away from the divisive racial politics of the past. This executive order tells America that in the Obama administration, race-based preferences are still business as usual."

I couldn't agree more. What fools we are to have been color blind and voted for this guy. He certainly isn't!!!!!

Davids mom
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Sky

No. But thanks for giving me more opportunity to express gratitude for the change that has happened in the south regarding race relations. . . and exposing the fear that still exists among some individuals. If the fear and hate among both whites and blacks didn't exist, it wouldn't still be expressed by some Americans. . . and I'd have nothing to respond to. We still have work to do. Sweeping this under the rug, and pretending it doesn't exist does not promote healing. By the way, I am certifiably 'black' according to my birth certificate. LOL.

suggarfoot
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David's Mom ...

“I wasn't raised here, but was in the south almost every summer. I know exactly what I'm talking about. “
Really? Less than 2 or 3 months for a few summers as a small child made you an ‘authority’ on the South?

Both Morgan and myself, have told you how we were raised …but you with your childhood insightfulness know more about how we were raised than we do because you had a few visits here.

Again your statement was, ”This is the new south but old attitudes are hard to cover"…I beg your pardon, but my statement was that I was raised to treat blacks the same as whites..THAT WAS ..MY…OLD SOUTH…since I was here 24/7….that makes me a little more knowledgeable on the subject than someone that occasionally passed through for a few weeks in the summer as a small child.

What I stated, and Morgan did too, was we were raised well, but that we both on arriving in ATL were exposed to a black backlash and hatred that was unfounded. (You totally ignore that as if it obviously is justified)

You continually come on the board and turn anything from Mary and her little lambs, to Darth Vader, into a race issue. Any time you are called on it….you come out with this ‘can’t we just all get along? Why you picken on poor old me’.
“Fortunately I have worked with too many Americans to realize that it is wrong to lump all in a particular race together.”
That is what you CONTINUALLY DO. To the point everyone writes you off.
“ You have every right to your opinion, but expressing it in your manner validates that you have turned into a 'hater'.”
Oh, so all the blacks that hated us first, and repeatedly used our kindness, are excused?
You are a racist, bigot, and baiter.

Davids mom
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Love/hate - sugar

The love being expressed at the memorial couldn't stop the 'hate' being expressed here. Sad. (Cyclist, we were on the road, and didn't feel the quake.) My cousin described it as 'rolling'. I guess we Californians are accustomed to 'quakes'. Too bad Sugar you take the sharing of some of my experiences personally. The actions of the citizens of Fayetteville and Peachtree City that I have been exposed to since living here have been nothing but positive, and represent the new south to me. You may have been raised differently than you are expressing yourself now. . .but that evidently has changed. I, too, have changed and no longer fear the south of my childhood. . .or the '60's. It wasn't that long ago to me that during visits I had to use separate restrooms and sit in a separate section in the movie theater. Family members protected us while we were in Atlanta-and I have very pleasant memories. If you feel you are being treated as blacks were treated back in the day, I know exactly how you feel. Do you feel the blacks in Peachtree City or Fayetteville treat you this way? Are you segregated in either of these cities?

suggarfoot
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?????

"federal program. Today ,in 2011, companies hire on qualifications - and then look at 'color/gender'. There is only 'one' of me. Many editors don't consider me 'silly'. This discussion has been shared with many. This is the 'new' south - but old attitudes are hard to 'cover'. "

1st place...if they aren't looking at color...there would be no need to fill in your race would it?

2nd thing "This is the new south but old attitudes are hard to cover"?

I was raised that all are the races were equal and should be treated as such...that was my 'OLD' SOUTH growing up...you don't know what you are talking about. You weren't raised in the south...I was.

My 'new south' thinking after moving to ATL and seeing the hate..not white against black...but the opposite..blacks HATING whites...has changed my attitude. My 'new south' thinking is that I was a naive fool to ever have taken the blacks side. People like you, David's Mom, are the ones that keep something going. You are a bitter, evil old thing, that barely conceals it. You don't want equality...you want revenge. You are ignorant of, nor will accept the fact, that whites don't owe you. You were not the only, nor the 1st slaves here, as I've told you...the Irish were, also the American Indians. Get over yourself. You have said the whites 'kept you down' but then here came the Orientals into the same areas and turned those places around. Then you guys hated on the Orientals. Next came the Mexicans...same deal...now you hate on them. I watched a documentary the other day about how the Arabs have moved into Detroit and they are .....AGAIN...doing the same thing ....turning around areas that the blacks have burned out and run down. What I have come to realize is that you don't want to participate in making things better, you and your buddies are a spoiled brats that want to come in and take over with the help of your hire goon, the NAACP. You want to run the whites out and buy their houses for pennies on the dollar, you want to take over the schools. You don't WANT the best person hired...you want a black and to hell with the results..that is why businesses go overseas..to get away from that. You are not part of the solution...you and your attitude are the problem!

Robert W. Morgan
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Wow sugar, try switching to decaf.

Although I must say my first 20 years of life were similar to yours - free of bigotry or any thoughts of racism. Then in the army - even in basic and other training I noticed how clannish certain groups were and thought that was interesting, but dismissed it as geographical preference. Then in Vietnam I saw that grow into something dangerous - a real "hate whitey", us and them kind of bigotry that was indeed based on skin color, but only from a few. Then moving to Atlanta years later, I was instantly exposed to thousands of people in the "city too busy to hate" (what a joke that is) who really had the attitude you describe.

I don't think David's Mom is that far gone, but you are correct in stating that some paople want nothing short of revenge and that is their only goal. With that outlook and limited imagination it is easy to see how the race pimps like Jackson and Sharpton get their influence.

suggarfoot
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"Race pimp like Jackson and Sharpton"

So true.

If MLK saw what the NACCP was used for today...(a goon squad with fungo bats) I think he would be turning over in his grave.

I'm sick of it. And this day to day needling of 'whitie' that DM does is just disgusting. She just wants to agitate. That is all she ever does, stirr the pot and hope for pitty.

suggarfoot
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"Race pimp like Jackson and Sharpton"

So true.

If MLK saw what the NACCP was used for today...(a goon squad with fungo bats) I think he would be turning over in his grave.

I'm sick of it. And this day to day needling of 'whitie' that DM does is just disgusting. She just wants to agitate. That is all she ever does, stirr the pot and hope for pitty.

T-Man
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You think the same as those you hate

When you lump them altogether as one group, you have achieved the same attitude that some blacks have against whites as you have explained. You are no better then them.
Rise above that and see people as individuals. Inter racial marriages are growing and throw mud on your mind set of “they all want to get whitey”

suggarfoot
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T-Man

You are correct. One of my dearest friends is married to a black guy and he is really nice.

Neither of them would be caught dead on a blog trying to polarize the races.

I'm beginning to think that if DM is indeed..one person..and indeed black...then the civil rights movement must have been the most and only exciting time of her life. Maybe she misses the drama, the fights, protesting etc. And now in old age, wants to relive it, and does so vicariously on this board.

If not, I can't explain it as numerous people have told her that her constant harping on the subject is counter productive.

As for me, I'm folding my tent on this subject and saying adieu.

Citizen_Steve
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T-Man

T-Man, I agree. Race has nothing to do with the cause of the problem. I think if you take any group of people, regardless of any specific trait and foster them with a sense that they are due an entitlement, for whatever reason - you'll end up with a group that feels resentment toward others and others will feel resentment toward the group.

Steve

T-Man
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CSteve

True so true

kevink
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Sugarfoot

You seem to be on a two week 'I'm pissed off' bender; frustration clearly evident in each clenched fist double post .Life is short. Try enjoying it. Works for me. ;-)

ps. The NAACP doesn't have much of a role in national tax policy or debt reduction. This reminds me of a fight started in one room, spilling into an ajoining room, and the folks in that room are like: Huh? Who the? What the?

wheeljc
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Watch What You Buy from President Obama

*How serious will Obama be about kick starting jobs?

Will he be willing to:
* Get the NLRB out of telling corporations where they can expand, who they can hire, and what benefits they will have to pay?
* Delay any further regulations that will have either a short or long term negative impact on job creation until unemployment reaches 5% nationally?
* Modify the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 for U.S. corporations, allowing firms to deduct dividends earned by their foreign subsidiaries from their taxable income? Otherwise, they will be double taxed!
* Aggressively approve oil and natural gas leases throughout the US to both create jobs, and permit DECREASED dependence on foreign sources?
* Voice support for a flat tax to enable businesses – large and small – to have a benchmark to plan on for the future?
* Reduce the top corporate tax rate to 25% (.5% lower than the OECD average) to attract foreign business? At present, the US has the SECOND highest at 39.2% (.3% lower than that of Japan). This would attract foreign business, and could reverse the current trend of moving jobs overseas.

If he is not willing to do the above Gang, then he will be selling WOLF TICKETS to the lambs! DON’T BUY THEM!!

AtHomeGym
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wheeljc & Corporate taxes

Don't know about being double-taxed but do know that it will mean that a couple trillion dollars will stay overseas and not be used in our economy.

lion
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Evolution and Presidents

A lot of Christian conservatives chose a candidate simply on how extreme they are on abortion. A single issue for them makes the decision simple.

I also have a simple way of eliminating candidates I would never vote for.

Evolution is simple determinate. If a candidate says he or she does not think evolution is true or raises their hands during a debate when asked if they doubt evolution, then I would never vote for that candidate.

If they cannot accept evolution, then those candidates are anti-science.

Why would we want a President who rejects science? Why would we put him or her in charge of out space program or medical research, etc?

Those candidates are either ignorant or are pandering to the equally ignorant home schooled Christian right voters who reject science and the secular world.

It is not surprising that all Presidential candidates who cast doubt on evolution are Republicans.

NUK_1
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Single issue and single party voters

It's pretty common in America because it's easy and Americans are addicted to convenience along with intellectual laziness. Why bother trying to consider more than one issue at the same time? Thinking is HARD! Why not be a good, obedient sheeple and make life easier by just focusing on one issue or one party? Vote like your told to and shut up.

If there is anything that illustrates why the American political system is broken and why government and politics are failing to work, the above mentality is right at the top. Lazy, dumb and ill-informed(who don't want to be informed either) voters are rarely going to elect decent politicians or leaders, whether that is at the national or local level. This also attracts the most craven and ethically-challenged to seek office in the first place.

I put voter apathy/ignorance right up there with the lobbyist-groups-own-politicians as causing the decline of democracy and a whole host of problems displayed by government and the political system..

PTC Observer
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Nuk_1 - So much

So much for the virtue of democracy as a form of government. Democracy has not declined, it is the concept of a republic that has been corrupted.

BHH
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lion, I'm sure you're being facetious.

There is one candidate for president who believes the government has no business necessity or hope of trying to control "global warming" who is high on my list of candidates to vote for.

This type of belief could lead us away from trying to over regulate every aspect of life and pursuit of happiness.

That one belief makes a grand statement of the mindset of this candidate.

As I'm sure a statement of belief in any other single issue would do.

Also, the evidence for the proof of "evolution" as most people understand it is extremely lacking, yet the "theory of evolution" has some basis in fact.

This doesn't make me anti-science.

It just makes me reasonable.

All the weights and measures in the bag are the Lord's.

And he created them as you find them.

This applies to every science you can study.

If you misinterpret the evidence then your study is flawed.

AtHomeGym
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Lion & the Space Program

so, just what space program are you talking about--is that the one that our current POTUS has doomed to non-existence? Andwouldn't it maybe be a good idea to be concerned about what those of us who are here now are gonna do with the future instead of how we got here? Just asking.

roundabout
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GYM

It was decided by our government at least 10 years ago not to go back to the moon next.
New craft are being researched and developed right now to go to Mars.

Plans are for that in about 2025 for it to start to the space station, then to an asteroid, then to Mars by 2050.

You will be happy to hear that the development plans will be turned over to private industry at some point to perform the operation.

Good thing we have a few intelligent people around to do the thinking as there are obviously many who want dirt and gravel roads again and a lot of cheap workers from anywhere except Mexico.

Cyclist
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Interesting lion...

So who have you voted for in the past?

Joe Kawfi
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Are the Poor Really Poor?

Are the Poor Really Poor?

According to the government's own survey data, in 2005:

• The average household defined as poor lived in a house or apartment equipped with air conditioning and cable TV.

• The family had a car (a third of the poor have two or more cars).

• For entertainment, the household had two color televisions, a DVD player and a VCR.

• If there were children in the home (especially boys), the family had a game system, such as an Xbox or PlayStation.

• In the kitchen, the household had a microwave, refrigerator, and an oven and stove.

• Other household conveniences included a clothes washer, clothes dryer, ceiling fans, a cordless phone and a coffeemaker.

kevink
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Exibit A of why everyone needs a hug every now and then.

Because without affection, their hearts become cold and dark. And in the midsts of a conversation about solving the nation's debt problem, they will point out that many people living in poverty have cars and TVs. Very valuable to this discussion indeed. Now let's go confiscate those microwaves and joe coffee makers.

Joe Kawfi
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Some people just can't handle the truth

The truth hurts, don't it Kev? You should really go hug yourself.

roundabout
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Downright comical

Mr. McMillian thinks that a world without poverty is not the norm for the world. He thinks if we don't "force" a minority (or allow) then the few who escape it, and are the only "producers who get wealthy," will also cease to exist.
Then we will all fall into abject poverty.
Sounds reasonable to me as long as I can "escape the poverty."

This sort of thinking (I won't dignify it by calling it a philosophy) sounds very similar to our current state of political affairs.

Here is how: A group of those escapees from poverty, along with their politicians in leadership, made enormous wealth between 2000 and 2008, thereby making the middle class almost disappear and the poverty class get much larger. Most of these producers went to the Islands or were promoted, when the Ponzi bundle schemes went sour, and they began to purchase the Treasury Notes caused by their "diligence."

Our current President goes on a ten day vacation with his entourage of several hundred advisers and aids, along with a load of red phones, the "bomb" code case, and military types who keeps him abreast of 3-4 wars.
Hillary calls every day, and so does NATO and the English Prime Minister.

He is able to shop for an hour a day on a walk, and eat lunch and dinner, along with several meetings, all between all those phone calls and visitors.

He would even ever have to go back to the "White House."

Yet, such a vacation is made much of, saying that the President should be in the White House---begging the Congress to return! Either that or producing a plan for jobs which can only be done there.

I do not understand why the President's enemies on the one hand want him to produce jobs, and on the other hand only want the "job makers," corporations, to produce all jobs.

They all know that jobs can not be suddenly created by going in debt further giving corporations another tax cut, yet that seems to be what they want. Actually the stockholders would end up with most of those profits from more tax cuts.

The truth is, there are no jobs right now---at least none that the current crop of unemployed are qualified to do.

Big job "fairs" are being arranged over the country, but no one is getting hired. That is propaganda.

We better start training the unemployed to do IT, Science, and Math since our schools have not. Wouldn't hurt for our teachers and administrators to stop cheating on tests for those who can't do our current jobs--"no child left behind," should be many children left behind until qualified.

kevink
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Roundabout. What you have written makes too much sense.

So it will surely be ignored here :-). Have a great weekend.

Cheers.

roundabout
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Kevink

Of course.
They often themselves tell me that!

Once polarized, always polarized.

It is painful to some to think there might be something different that is good than what they think.

Git Real
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Dollar....

More education is not going to solve the fact that the jobs we seek to provide for our masses now reside overseas. The solution is to lessen the job killing mandates, anti-business attitudes, and overbearing compliance issues that are heaped upon businesses to the point that they cannot compete and operate in this country no longer.

There is no incentives for businesses to retool and restart manufacturing in this country. And when I say incentives I am not talking about tax free or subsidized offers to entice. I am talking about getting the government and its overbearing, burdensome and production quelching policies out of the way in order to entice good jobs back to our soil.

That and getting our workforce to lose its entitlement mentality along with some real leadership that supports 'work ethic reform' while trying to instill a thought process that ALL Americans need to chip in an be productive in one way or another.

I suspect we are going to hear alot about educating our youth, etc as the solution to our employment woes. Problem is in many cases we have educated our potential work force in ways that make our job seeks practically useless for many needed trades necessary to attract businesses back to manufacturing and producing here.

It is time to teach trades careers again so we have a workforce that will prosper a business enterprise if it moves back here. That coupled with getting the freaking gumament out of the private sector will do more to restore jobs than sending more kids to school to earn more totally useless and unproductive degrees taught by people who have never produced a damn thing in their entire lives......

But no.... as usual we will pin all our hopes on 'more education' as if that is going to magically create new jobs in this country. Fact is in many cases we have so many over-educated people in this country who are book smart but couldn't figure their way out of a paper bag if their life depended upon it.

But I fear we will not support an attitude of 'rolling up our sleeves, working with our hands, and actually producing something'. Instead...we will wind up creating more metro-sexual pansies that refuse to do what it takes make a living if it actually requires any real effort and sweat equity to make it happen.

carbonunit52
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Git,
Quote:

Fact is in many cases we have so many over-educated people in this country who are book smart but couldn't figure their way out of a paper bag if their life depended upon it.

I knew the country was headed for trouble when they took the kick starters off of the Harleys.

Git Real
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Twist It As You May

Whatever you think....

carbonunit52
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Just kiddin around Git,
Git Real wrote:

Whatever you think....

it was not aimed at you....I was referring to engineers who took the fun out of getting thrown over the handlebars when kick starting a harley.

Observerofu
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From one Racist to another

Finely said sir.

Git Real
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Just Wait

Just wait until this next year when we experience the collateral damage of evironmental regulation heaped on our electrical utility producers as they are forced to shut down plants and invest billions in more evironmental compliance in this very sick economy. The result being that businesses and individuals are going to see huge increase in their electric bill to the tune of 4% - 6% in immediate increases in the cost of our electricity. And Obama and Bernake claim we have no looming inflation over the horizon?

roundabout
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GIT

Well we could just relax those regulations and let the electrical Industry
do a "Japanese" on us, or a sludge pond flood on us, or a river contamination on us, or an ocean ruination on us, or a "fracking" destruction of the earth on us.

We could even bury our waste radiation elements inside a mountain somewhere until it blows up! Or leaks out in a river of contamination.

I assure you all this would happen if not regulated.

Just look mat the Banks, and Wall Street with little regulation!

Now just yesterday we find that Corporations have bought off the credit rating agencies during the mortgage scandal of 2000-2008. This of course also has ruined us.

Want to say that two middle east wars also haven't cost us our fortune and thousands and thousands of wounded and dead of ours, and even more of theirs. This has also destroyed our voluntary military except for those who can't do any better.

Your "captaining" of your responsibilities, I'm sure has been better than all this.

Yes, we must regulate and manage for people, not so much money.

Get Smart
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Joined: 06/07/2006
Good Lord

Don't you ever stop whinning?