Voting a straight racist ticket

Cal Thomas's picture

At the 2004 Democratic National Convention in Boston, Sen. Barack Obama said, “... There is not a black America and a white America and Latino America and Asian America — there is the United States of America.”

Those were welcome and commendable words. Unfortunately, they appear to be only words. Since then, Obama has divided us along race and class lines more than any modern president.

Some of his strongest, high-profile supporters in the black community are now saying that Obama’s race, alone, should be enough for black voters to vote for his re-election.

Krissah Thompson of The Washington Post reports that on “The Tom Joyner Morning Show,” which has an estimated 8 million radio listeners, Joyner, who is black, said, “Stick together, black people.” The show reaches one in four African-American adults.

Rev. Al Sharpton, who also has a radio show and a gig on MSNBC, admonished blacks who have been critical of the president, “I’m not telling you to shut up. I’m telling you: Don’t make some of us have to speak up.”

The attempt at poetry is getting tiresome, Al. Why don’t you leave that to Jesse Jackson?

Joyner went even further on his blog, writes Thompson: “Let’s not deal with the facts right now,” he said. “Let’s deal with just our blackness and pride — and loyalty. We have the chance to re-elect the first African-American president, and that’s what we ought to be doing. And I’m not afraid or ashamed to say that as black people, we should do it because he’s a black man.”

Try that in football. Never mind that the black quarterback continues to throw interceptions or drop the ball, keep him in the game simply because he’s black. If that happened, he’d be booed until the coach pulled him off the field, and those boos wouldn’t just be coming from whites.

In the same week the memorial to Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was dedicated in Washington, Joyner and Sharpton are saying that Barack Obama should be judged not on the content of his character and policies, but rather on the color of his skin. How sad. How racist.

If a black president cannot be held accountable for his policies and must receive the votes of African-Americans solely because of his race, then all of the marching for equal rights has been for nothing.

The question ought to be this: are African-Americans, indeed, are all Americans, better off than they were when Barack Obama took office?

By any objective standard, the answer must be “no.” How do black people expect their circumstances to improve if Obama is elected for another four years? If they conclude they will not, why not vote for someone who can create the conditions under which more of them might get a job, for example? Black unemployment is 16.7 percent, the highest it’s been in 27 years.

Sharpton and Joyner don’t have to worry too much about their financial futures. But too many African-Americans remain mired in conditions that have characterized many in their community for decades. Why would they want to continue their lifestyles out of “pride” and “loyalty” when the Democratic Party has been disloyal to them and a better way is available?

Recent Washington Post-ABC News polls reveal a decline in the number of blacks with “strongly favorable” views of the president and his efforts to improve the economy. What people like Joyner and Sharpton fear is a loss of a place at the political table, a table that has been set far more elegantly for them than for too many of the African-Americans for whom they claim to speak.

What the slide in Obama’s support in the African-American community demonstrates is that increasing numbers of black people are beginning to understand they have been played for suckers by the Democratic Party.

They are right to feel this way. Their loyalty should not be to a party, but to themselves, their families and their best interests, which lie outside a welfare system that has locked too many of them into dependence and an addiction to a government check. What they need instead is a reality check.

[Cal Thomas is America’s most widely syndicated op-ed columnist, appearing in more than 600 national newspapers. He is the author of more than 10 books and is a FOX News political contributor since 1997. Email Cal Thomas at tmseditors@tribune.com.] ©2011 TRIBUNE MEDIA SERVICES, INC.

Gene61
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Cal is right...

At the 2004 Democratic National Convention in Boston, Sen. Barack Obama said, “... There is not a black America and a white America and Latino America and Asian America — there is the United States of America.”

Those were welcome and commendable words. Unfortunately, they appear to be only words. Since then, Obama has divided us along race and class lines more than any modern president.

Some of his strongest, high-profile supporters in the black community are now saying that Obama’s race, alone, should be enough for black voters to vote for his re-election.

Krissah Thompson of The Washington Post reports that on “The Tom Joyner Morning Show,” which has an estimated 8 million radio listeners, Joyner, who is black, said, “Stick together, black people.” The show reaches one in four African-American adults.

enough said.....

kevink
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Gene61. Let's think for ourselves a moment.

You just repeated exactly what Cal has said, but you added no support for your statement.

Please tell me what President Obama is doing to divide America by race. This article isn't about Tom Joyner's opinion.

"Obama has divided us along race and class lines more than any modern president."

Support your made-up claim, if you can please.

Joe Kawfi
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Kevyn

"White folks greed runs a world in need"

"I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect by doing so that I was ingratiating myself to whites."

"There was something about him that made me wary, a little too sure of himself, maybe. And white."

"That's just how white folks will do you. It wasn't merely the cruelty involved, I was learning that black people could be mean and then some. It was a particular brand of arrogance, an obtuseness in otherwise sane people that brought forth our bitter laughter. It was as if whites didn't know they were being cruel in the first place. Or at least thought you deserving of their scorn. White folks."

"She is a typical white person" (speaking of his grandmother)

"Did I mention he's black?"

Enough for ya, jagoff?

kevink
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No Joe. Your post makes as much sense as your avatar.

Hide your kids, hide your wife, and hide your husband, cause Herman Cain be ________ing erybody up in here!

kcchiefandy
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Geez, Kev...

...you REALLLLY have a visceral hate for Herman Cain! Did he f*#$ somebody close to you?! There have certainly been worse running for office, right??

kevink
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Visceral hate? Please.

I know this has been a bad week for you, but don't expect folks to stay silent while a guy tries to make himself the victim when HIS behavior and conflicting statements got HIMSELF into a tricky situation. Speaking of visceral hate, you might ask yourself why you have such a "visceral hate" for your President. You've been harder on him than Cain has been on himself.

kcchiefandy
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Huh, Kev?!

I'm having a good week! I don't plan on voting for Cain, and I like Obama the person, just not his politics! Heck, he might have been a good President w/ 4-6 more years of senatorial experience. I can't blame the man for his stances, lies, and misrepresentations - he's a politician! Oh - he smokes, though; I do find that nasty.

kevink
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Andy. His doc confirmed it.

Not anymore. Probably the best decision he has made since his wedding.

As for Cain and your question:

"There have certainly been worse running for office, right??"

I believe there has not been a worse presidential candidate than Herman Cain in my lifetime. It's not just me saying that. Republicans and democrats have taken note of this man's utter incompetence in a few key areas:

He said he was pro life without exceptions, but the government should stay out of the decision (giving the woman the choice).

He had no idea of what Palestinian's "right of return" means with respect to border talks with Israel.

"Uzbecki becki becki stan stan."

He called the not-imaginary Palestinian people "The so-called Palestinians."

He did not know that China has the fith largest nuclear arsenal on the planet. Heck! He didn't even know they had a nuclear arsenal.

He had an accountant make up an economic plan called 999 and falsley referred to the man as an economist. He could not explain the plan. When confronted with what his 999 would do to the poorest of Americans, he made up 909... which he still can't explain.

Two women were paid $70,000 total due to his alleged behavior as the head of the Restaurant association. As the head of that association, he said he wasn't aware of any payments. Then he said he was only aware of an agreement, but not how much. He said the women were anonymous, but referred to one being exactly his wife's height.

I would not trust him near my daughter.
I would not trust him with the football.
I would not trust him with my finances.

He makes Sarah Palin look very very smart.

.

JeffC
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Not to worry Kevin

I hear talk radio and commentators on the right tell how frightened liberals are of Herman Cain. Cain's Horatio Alger story so powerfully refutes the milieu that the Democratic Party has tricked black Americans with for so long that surely they will see the light and, finally, and at long last taking personal individual responsibility for themselves, they will flood to the Republican Party or something. I'm not sure what endgame is envisioned for the suddenly enlightened new constituency.

I assume they are serious.

At the same time, I'm not denying that all of my high-ranking liberal acquaintances have disappeared mysteriously. I can only assume they have been dispatched to dragoon Herman back to the plantation.

Anyway, Cain's chances of being nominated are zero.

Check out this new ad.

New Ad: Obama SuperPAC Releases Anti-Romney Clip

Whoa...

Davids mom
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Take this to the bank

Thinking citizens who truly believe that they have a chance at the American equal opportunity promise even if they are not white, are not going to vote for a party that has as its candidate a person whose ranch was called Nhead. The Republicans who foresee a sudden black vote for Herman Cain are sadly out of touch with reality. Watching the Republicans turn on each other is quite a show. Can't wait for the Geinrich/Cain debate tonight sponsored by the Tea Party. American blacks as a whole will not vote for a Black Republican just because he is Black! You can take that to the bank - if it hasn't failed .

kcchiefandy
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That's pretty bad, Kev...

...glad he's not my choice. I didn't/don't see a lot of potential in him as the head of our government. At some point I think you have to have some sort of political experience to assume that position. Now, maybe if he had been a community organizer, THAT'D be something....! ;-P

Robert W. Morgan
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Divider in Chief doing the job

1 in 4 Af-Ams and a total of 8mil means that since the average Af-Am family is 1 Mom and 4 kids that he is reaching fewer than 1 million voters adult listeners and 30% of them may vote again based upon the claas warfare nonsense. Not an issue.

kevink
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Robert. Think young and hip. Don't be behind the times.

The "class warfare" charge is soo last August. We've all seen the recent economic data of where wealth concentration is moving. "Business Insider" has a great article on this below:

http://www.businessinsider.com/15-charts-about-wealth-and-inequality-in-...

We all know where President Reagan's tax rates were compared to current rates. We know he was not accused by you Chicken Littles for the wealthy of waging class warfare when he raised taxes 11 times.

Riddle me this: How do Republicans, with a straight face, claim President Obama is engaging in "class warfare" when your top polling presidential candidate wants to cut the income tax of the wealthiest Americans by 75% while raisng income tax rates on the poorest Americans? From what I can tell, your party will not be satisfied until all of the slices in this finite economic pie simmer on the tables of the wealthy. I'm just trying to figure out how your "non class warfare" works.

JeffC
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Class warfare Kevin

The GOP powers that be have been waging class warfare forever. Their just upset that the other side is finally getting some notice.

kevink
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Pres Carter's son:

Betcha money joekawfi is Googling for new avatars :-D

kcchiefandy
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Just as Democrats...

...since the 40's have been slaves to their entitlement masters, led by the nose to enrich these public 'servants', ever beholden to them to provide. See, JeffC, I can make generalized statements that mean nothing, too.

JeffC
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Class warfare kcchiefandy

In 1980, the top 1% of the US population owned 13 percent of the wealth. By 2008 the top one percent owned 38.8 % of everything in the US. The top ten percent of the U.S. population now owns 81.8 percent of the real estate, 81.2 percent of the stock, and 88 percent of the bonds.

Since the beginning of the Bush administration, the net worth of the US has increased by almost 20%. Income of the bottom 92% of Americans has stagnated or declined during that time. Over 98% of the increase in America's wealth for the last 10 years has gone to the top 5% of the population. The top 400 families in the US now have a net worth of more than the bottom 50 million families.

Most of the shift in wealth is due to the tax laws that the ultra-wealthy buy off Congress to implement. That's class warfare. Only one side has been playing.

NUK_1
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JeffC: don't agree at all

The wealth shift came from the American economy becoming part of a globalized economy that many Americans and American companies were not ready to deal with. The person making $35/hr with great benefits and being totally unskilled saw their jobs outsourced to other countries where it could be done for next to nothing and in some cases, better. If the quality was a little off, no problem, we're saving about $34/hour and paying no benefits.

That's kind of the way the world works.....you can take away every dime the rich own right now and give it all to the poor and a year later the rich will be rich again and the poor will be destitute again. It has nothing to do with tax laws or redistribution of wealth from rich to poor. It's more like wolves on one side and sheep on the other and plain Darwinism, as it has been since Man first walked the planet.

Americans feel entitled to a certain lifestyle that their lack of skills, knowledge and work ethic gets in the way of, yet they aren't so bad off that they will work for basically nothing as global counterparts will or illegals. They suddenly all got left behind in the global economy. As Robert Johnson of BET put it rather succinctly, the biggest problem is dealing with the social unrest from all of this. Look at how deadbeat Greece is dealing with their problem....suggest "austerity" and there are riots. The entitlement generation is hardly isolated and it's exploding in Europe right now and the stinky hippies and yuppie whiners of OWS are just the first wave in America.

Go ahead...erase all the Bush tax cuts. Return to the Reagan era tax rates. What gets accomplished from all of that besides the class warfare clowns being happy for about 5 minutes? NOTHING. It has nothing to do with tax rates when Americans aren't skilled enough on one hand and "too skilled" to work for peanuts on the other.

kcchiefandy
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I wonder, JeffC...

...what the 'bottom 92%' live like? I'm probably somewhere in the 'bottom 70%' and I have a damn fine life. Did the 'bottom 92%' in Egypt in B.C. 2000 live like me? Doubt it. Did the 'bottom 92%' in the USSR in 1940 live like me? Doubt it. Your statements (of fact?) are skewed by the overwhelming opulence that most Americans live in compared to today's world and worlds of the past. There are, and have been, 'ultra-wealthy' since the world has been industrialized - and before that in heraldic states; some earned, some silver-spooned, some just lucky. Trying to legislate 'equity' of these riches is pointless; it won't happen. Empowering a 'Bureaucratic class' only enslaves the 'poor'; its they who will suffer the most; who without the ABILITY TO PAY TAXES would be even more dependent on the wealthy to PROVIDE something - anything - for them!

Fight the good fight, but be aware of the things you just can't change, only alter - slightly. 'God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can;and wisdom to know the difference.' - St. Francis of Assisi

JeffC
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kcchiefandy

I am willing to concede that America's poor live better than those poor people who lived at the center of civilization 4000 years ago.

In '83 the bottom 80% of the people owned 18.7% of the net worth of the US. In 2007, they owned 15.0%. In financial wealth, net worth minus the house if there is one, in 1983 the bottom 80% owned 8.7% of the US. In 2007 they owned 7.0%. The bottom 10% have nothing. They own 0.02%. If you subtract the value of their houses, the bottom 10% own nothing and are in debt by 2.2% of the net worth of the US.

kcchiefandy
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And you think, JeffC...

...that raising taxes a little bit on the wealthy is going to fix this? You believe growing government & entitlement programs will fix this? "...minus the house if there is one." - a home has been a family's primary investment for a very long time; it is mine, and some will never own one - its not a right; trying to make THAT happen is a big part of the reason why we're in this mess. Why do the bottom 10% have nothing? Because the wealthy are keeping it from them? Given, the wealthy have a lot more options, but many of them earned those options. Why are the bottom 2.2% in debt?

Trusting our national government to fix everything is a suckers bet; there will always be people with problems; some self-inflicted, some not. There are issue to address, but standing in the street yelling about it isn't going to help anything.

JeffC
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It's part of the solution kcchiefandy

I was not advocating that everyone should have the right to own a house. It was just how I was defining financial wealth: net worth minus any equity in a house.

Nor am I advocating expansion or creation of new entitlement programs. We're borrowing 40% of the budget. It's sheer fantasy to think that the budget is going to be balanced by cutting it by 40% in the short term. Spending has to be cut and taxes are going to be raised on the wealthy. Some of the ultra-wealthy don't want their taxes raised in spite of the facts that their taxes are below the Reagan era and they have gotten all of the increase in national wealth for the last ten years while the average American's pay has stagnated. Why do you think the Koch brothers created the TEA Party?

The super-wealthy have not become 80 times more productive than the average citizen over the last ten years and so have reaped their just reward of owning another 3% of the net worth of the US. Exxon-Mobile paid no US income taxes and got a $154,000,000 refund in 2008. GE pays no taxes. They've manipulated the tax code. It's no longer a level playing field. Polls I've seen show an overwhelming majority want to raise taxes on the wealthy; at least back to the Reagan era levels.

Bush had a great economy handed to him and destroyed it. Obama had a horrible economy handed to him and has mishandled it. That's the back story that everybody knows. But now the economy is Obama's and he is running for reelection. What's he going to campaign on, the fabulous economy? Hardly.

Then along comes the TEA Party to save him. They are extremists who've captured the GOP. Moderate candidates were afraid to get in the race. The TEA Party candidates shoot to the top until America gets a good look at them then they crash just as fast. So Obama gets to run against Mitt, just about the weakest opponent he could have hoped for. Then the TEAs almost took the country over a cliff with the debt limit. That was an eye-opener for sure for the left and the Obama administration. We thought they'd compromise. We had no idea that they were actually willing to destroy the credit of the country. The narrative then turned to their inflexible extremism.

Instead of Obama having to campaign on the economy, he gets to campaign on the GOP intransigence on the economy. Obama's message is look how extreme the other guys are. The super-committee on the budget is going to fail and the TEAs are going to play right into Obama's hands by refusing to compromise on anything. It's really ironic.

suggarfoot
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JeffC

"Most of the shift in wealth is due to the tax laws that the ultra-wealthy buy off Congress to implement. That's class warfare. Only one side has been playing."
..............

Wow honey! Did you sum it up! ...........Only one side HAS been playing.
Personally, I've always felt that wanting to be rich at others expense is a sickness. What people have lost site of is that it is one thing to become rich by your own merits. It is quite another to hire lobbyist to get the laws changed so you can take advantaged of the helpless. That is what has been going on here. Another thing that scares me is that these taxpayers just bend over and take it. I'm past the working age, but my heart goes out to these young people. By not being vocal, they don't understand they are daily loosing ground. Ground that will cost their families financial security down the road. They will have to look in their children's eyes and realize they can't provide for them as well as they want. Then, it will be too late.

Sorry, but I think more of a whore than a lobbyist!

skittles44
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Leave the past in the past!

I am so tired of hearing blacks complaining about their heritage, most of which happened generations ago. Equality is improving daily, but he racism exhibited by blacks severely stunts the growth of this movement. Racism goes both ways and I often believe blacks are more racist than any other race. The reason blacks vote for democratic leaders is because they are more likely to give free handouts to them. I believe life is what you make of it and if you want to sit on your couch all day and let the government support you financially, I feel sorry for you. Where is the ambition in the black community?
Another point regarding racism running rampant in the black community are as follows.
1. BET is a black entertainment channel. What if we wanted to have a white entertainment channel? It would be considered racism.
2. All black universities exist and are accepted. What if we attempted to construct an all white university? An outcry would arise that this is racism.
3. Black history month exists. What if we wanted a white history month? Racism.
Yes your ancestors may have been discriminated against and I feel terrible for that. It was your ancestors, NOT YOU! Leave the past in the past and move on.
In my current job I see a lot of blacks wearing Obama t-shirts. I cannot every recall a black individual ever wearing t-shirts to support any other president. The only reason the support exists is solely because of skin color. This is ignorant and sad in my view. Of course the majority of blacks will vote for a democratic president, regardless of race, because they are interested in relying on the government handouts to support them. This costs all of us hard-working, full-time employees in the long run.
My overall point here is I believe racism towards white people runs rampant and yet it is not referred to as racism, just different races celebrating their culture. When whites display inappropriate behavior towards different races it is called racism, but when black do this they are simply supporting and celebrating their culture. Racism at its finest. Instead of pointing the finger you should all look at yourselves and see what sort of preconceived and stereotypical biases you display on a daily basis. Racism is racism regardless of race.

Davids mom
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A racist ticket?

Please refresh my memory. When have minorities been given the opportunity to vote a 'straight racist ticket'? I think that the 'majority' have had that opportunity once or twice since the founding of our country. When Obama was running, many blacks said that they would hold his feet to the fire to deliver - and many are. The Republican Party of today is not offering programs that are in the best interest for the families of the middle class, minorities, etc. and that's the truth as many 'blacks' see it.

Quote:

At the 2004 Democratic National Convention in Boston, Sen. Barack Obama said, “... There is not a black America and a white America and Latino America and Asian America — there is the United States of America.”
Those were welcome and commendable words. Unfortunately, they appear to be only words. Since then, Obama has divided us along race and class lines more than any modern president.

The division became acceptable when McConnell announced that the Republican goal was to make the Obama (the first African American president) a 'one-term president. That statement united the 'racists' on both sides of the issue. Then came the insane program to discredit his education, birthright, etc., etc., etc. Now we have a black Republican ahead of the 7 candidates who want to represent the Republican Party in the next election for president. Blacks will not unite to vote for a black Republican for president - you can take that to the bank.

kcchiefandy
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But yet, DM...

...we hear 'African-American' all the time - along w/ other racial identifiers. Please refer to me as 'Czecho-Franco-Germanic American', please! When we can start calling each other 'Americans', and only that, then I'll believe the racial divide is closed. Propagating such terms only keep the rift open - it needs to stop.

kevink
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Kcchief. Would have liked to have met u yesterday.

Hyphens are not at all scary. No more dangerous than calling an Italian restaurant an italian restaurant. Michelle Bachmann touted her great conversations with Cuban Americans in Florida. Her words. There is a uniqueness to that that is proud and palpable. I have no idea why anyone tries to make this a big deal. Racial identity and racial division do not, by necessity, go hand in hand.

Davids mom
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Kc

No disagreement - but the distinction between black and white started long ago.
If you're interested, research the actions taken by some plantation owners after the emancipation of slaves. There appeared to be a movement for poor whites and newly emancipated slaves to unite. This is not what the wealthy white landowners wanted. So - even if you were poor and white, under Jim Crow law, you still had more rights than 'blacks'. Black, colored, Negro, the N word was always perceived as negative - so African-American became acceptable to SOME blacks. No matter your heritage - you are 'white'. Sad - but we're getting closer to celebrating all as Americans.

kcchiefandy
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Thanks, DM...

...but I'm not concerned w/ ancient history, just the future of this nation. 'Acceptable' is not a term I'm concerned with - 'American' is; you're either a citizen of this nation - aka an 'American', or you're not. It's really that simple for me. You can enjoy your heritage & history all you want, but in today's world, living in THIS nation, naturalized or born here, you are an American - nothing more, nothing less, IMHO.

suggarfoot
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Kcchiefandy

you think as some very great men before you in those regards.

"There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. A hyphenated American is not an American at all... The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities.... There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American. The only man who is a good American is the man who is an American and nothing else"

Teddy Roosevelt

"Any man who carries a hyphen about with him carries a dagger that he is ready to plunge into the vitals of this Republic whenever he gets ready."

Woodrow Wilson

Davids mom
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Wilson/Roosevelt

The hyphen was dropped -but not the distinction between black and white. Check your history. Believe me I wish your view of race- relations in the US was reality!

kcchiefandy
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Thanks, Suggar...

...I knew I was a great American, just not THAT great! Rather than continuing to be the 'melting pot' that made us great, we've allowed politicians to cordon us off into separatist mindsets, where we now define ourselves by political parties which hone our views to one narrow set of points. I believe the greatest good, if any, that came out of the tragedy of the Twin Towers was for a moment we again resolved ourselves as one UNITED country, identified ourselves as AMERICANS, and reaffirmed the freedoms that make us so.

Davids mom
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KC
Quote:

I believe the greatest good, if any, that came out of the tragedy of the Twin Towers was for a moment we again resolved ourselves as one UNITED country, identified ourselves as AMERICANS, and reaffirmed the freedoms that make us so.

You are so right! I hope it doesn't take a crisis/tragedy to get us to return to that moment of truth.

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The Hyphen by John Wayne

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fuzLTrwVbc

THE HYPHEN
The Hyphen, Webster's Dictionary defines,
Is a symbol used to divide a
compound word or a single word.
So it seems to me that when a man calls himself
An "Afro-American," a "Mexican-American,"
"Italian-American," An "Irish-American,"
"Jewish-American,"
What he's sayin' is, "I'm a divided American."

Well, we all came from other places,
Different creeds and different races,
To form a nation...to become as one,
Yet look at the harm a line has done-
A simple little line, and yet
As divisive as a line can get.
A crooked cross the Nazis flew,
And the Russian hammer and sickle too-
Time bombs in the lives of Man;
But none of these could ever fan
The fames of hatred faster than
The Hyphen.

The Russian hammer built a wall
That locks men's hearts from freedom's call.
A crooked cross flew overhead
Above twenty million tragic dead-
Among them men from this great nation,
Who died for freedom's preservation.
A hyphen is a line that's small;
It can be a bridge or be a wall.
A bridge can save you lots of time;
A wall you always have to climb.
The road to liberty lies true.
The Hyphen's use is up to you.

Used as a bridge, it can span
All the differences of Man.
Being free in mind and soul
Should be our most important goal.
If you use The Hyphen as a wall,
You'll make your life mean...and small.
An American is a special breed,
Whose people came to her in need.
They came to her that they might find
A world where they'd have peace of mind.
Where men are equal...and something more-
Stand taller than they stood before.

So you be wise in your decision,
And that little line won't cause division.
Let's join hands with one another...
For in this land, each man's your brother.
United we stand...divided we fall.
WE'RE AMERICANS...and that says it all.

Davids mom
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The Hyphen - a bridge, not a wall!

That's the goal!!

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An excellent platitude

But still it doesn't really mean anything. Pretty packaging, nothing more, nothing less. But have a great week anyway :)

kcchiefandy
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And totally, DM...

...unnecessary, for an American. If you walked across that 'bridge', what year did you emigrate to the US (if you're not a 1st generation immigrant, then it REALLY doesn't apply - at all!)?

kevink
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Kcchiefandy. I'm noticing something about you.

When we were talking DODT you told me if I wasn't a military member then my opinion didn't count or matter. Now you are telling Davids Mom that if she isn't first gen imigrant then hyphens don't apply at all.

Just so I don't make the wrong person angry...... uh....umm... Would you by chance be God? I don't envision him as a blogger, but I just want to be sure....ummm... Sir?

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When it is time, Kev...

...you will know me, my son. Prepare thee thy soul for thou knowest not the day, nor the hour, of whenst our call shall come.

And your point? DADT's repeal doesn't affect you, personally, in the sense you don't have to live with it day-to-day; your support for homosexuals and all other sexual deviants is well documented. DM is an American, whose family - long ago - came from Africa and endured a most difficult time. For me, I'm an American whose grandfather (on Dad's side) checked in on Ellis Island, coming from Czechoslovakia. Oh, and I'm Catholic, so long ago my people were persecuted in this country, too, and often shunned. ME bless America, the greatest nation on Earth, warts & all.

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Kcchief! Great scripture quotes :-)

We'll keep you for your humor alone :-). But you obviously have no clue of what my day to day life consists of. You need to get out more :-)

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Thanks, Kev...

...I'm worth a laugh or two occasionally! I work too much to get out much, tho! From what I've gathered on here, I hope your day-to-day life involves transporting homosexual Mexicans and other illegal aliens back to their countries!

Davids mom
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KC/Wedge

I wish all saw Americanism through your eyes. The hyphen wasn't used for my ancestors - that came much later. My ancestors did not emigrate, they were brought over in chains. They survived a rough journey. We are coming from two entirely different points of reference. The hyphen was a wall for my people; segregation, etc. It was/is a wall for many who are not 'white'. Waynes poem is not a platitude to many. Until unearned superiority is no longer assumed because ones skin is white, walls will exist. I am interested in your reasoning for thinking that I am wrong. Thanks.

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DM, a bridge
Davids mom wrote:

I wish all saw Americanism through your eyes. The hyphen wasn't used for my ancestors - that came much later. [snip] The hyphen was a wall for my people; segregation, etc. It was/is a wall for many who are not 'white'.

Almost all Americans originally came from somewhere else. Whether it be Wales, Germany, Sweden, Syria/Lebanon, Ireland, Netherlands (where mine came from), or where ever your ancestors originated. I am not discounting anyone's experiences or tragedies. What I am saying is a platitude is that the use of a hyphenated term for ancestry is a "bridge". To what is using a hyphenated term for ancestry a "bridge"? To an elimination of distinction based upon ancestry in society? I do not see how the hyphen is a bridge to that outcome, just a continuation of the wall.

Davids mom
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Wedge/KC

You have your views based on your experience, I'm just sharing mine. See my post to KC/ American pride.

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DM, a bridge continued

DM, I did read your well written post below. In that entire post, there is no mention of a "bridge". My point is the same and not addressed in return--paraphrased - 'The hyphen is a bridge and not a wall' is what I am calling a platitude. A bridge to what?

Davids mom
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Wedge - From my point of view

A bridge to full acceptance as an American citizen. Acknowledging that black people have a history just like white people is my point. That black people brought skills and intelligence from another region to the building of this country, not just brawn and a vagina. Believe me, I understand what you are saying, and that is what SHOULD be. I 'm sharing what is. The only time I have been identified as solely American is when I travel. In fact when visiting in Africa, and asked my nationality , I replied African American. They smiled and excitedly asked what tribe! I am an American. In my own country, I am asked to clarify my race. Have you ever felt it would be a disadvantage to identify yourself as other than white in the US.? If not, try it - even today in 2011.

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DM, the corollary of what "is"

I have always been happy with who I am, much as I assume you are happy by what you are as well. Who I am has been a blessing and a curse to what my passions are. To know me is to realize that I was not built for professional or even college football. My appearance (caucasian) actually was a detriment to me in mid town Atlanta when the kind lady behind the counter told me to get out of her restaurant for my own safety when I first moved here. I saw some menacing people approaching from afar and I got her kind point. My point is that as we are far too concerned about race and appearance to the point where well intentioned people define themselves by it. Constantly embracing our differences and diminishing others does not make a great bridge. It make a good wall for factionalism

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DM, and the kind lady

I was blessed to run into that lady and go to her counter. She thought I was in an unsafe position due to my appearance and I took her sage advice and left. She did the right thing. All I am saying is that my appearance was a detriment in that situation and that part of Atlanta at that time. Nothing more, nothing less. Please reread what I wrote and see if there is any ambiguity around my feelings for that lady. I think you didn't catch all of it.

Davids mom
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Wedge

OK. :-)

Davids mom
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So Wedge

Are you suggesting that the kind lady should have ignored the reality of what is and allowed you to be a victem because she relied on what ought to be? Her concern for you based on reality may have saved your life. We are BOTH proud of who we are- not 'what we are'. We are members of the human race. We are different genders and colors. The factionalism started long before we were born. I post to correct the generalizations that have been derogatory to my race. Sorry if that offends.

Davids mom
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To continue Wedge

Some corrections to generalizations: All blacks are not on welfare, especially Fayette County.; many blacks achieved before affirmative action; etc., etc., etc. Wedge, you have not posted derogatory remarks, and I agree that constant denigration of a race creates a wall. I find it difficult to understand the acceptance of generalizations and the non-acceptance of corrections to these generalizations. Wedge, the wall is coming down. We should celebrate the progress!

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Yes, DM...

...your ANCESTORS, not you. Certainly you've suffered the slights of racism and all that came with it, and I don't mean to downplay that, but it wasn't chattel slavery. Point being, other than your ANCESTORS coming from Africa, the tag 'African-American' really doesn't fit. Other than a Native America (and THEY can use that - no hyphen needed!), we all came from somewhere and are now Americans. Just wondering, have you ever been to Africa?

Davids mom
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KC/American pride

Think about it. If you sincerely believe what you say is true, and it should be, why has it been necessary to identify your race when born in America? Why do 'white' people check European-American/non-Hispanic? Is there some advantage? I have been to Africa several times. Africa is a continent with many countries. Oral and written family histories have been passed down from generation to generation. Have you had the opportunity to visit the European countries of your heritage? Evidently you are also proud of your heritage. Does that make you less proud of being an American? Why would it be any different for Americans of African descent? As you say, we all came from somewhere else. (I am also proud of my Choctaw/Cherokee heritage - but my culture is African-American. I don't plan on forgetting the contributions made by my ancestors whose labor and intelligence helped to build America.

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Honestly, DM...

...I don't remember EVER checking 'Euro-Am/non-Hisp' on anything; it always seems to be 'Caucasian'. I have been to France & Czechoslovakia (when it was still that!), and have visited relatives in both. I can't say I felt any 'pride' in being either, just mostly interested in seeing where we came from. I am American through-and-through; the countries of my family origins hold little more to me than a passing interest. Again, enjoy your ancestors histories, but remember you are American, also, through-and-through.

Davids mom
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Gosh KC

Does the government have a separate form for most surveys for 'white' people? Am I The only one who has filled out a government form in the past ten years that did not have the nomenclature I described?

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Really, DM...

...of those forms w/ demographic info (except maybe the census; don't remember) that I've filled out in recent & longer memory, they use the term 'Caucasian'. You've peaked my interest on just what that term means, though; here's one description I've found -

"Caucasoid race" is initially a term formerly used in physical anthropology to refer to people of a certain range of anthropometric measurements. Conceived as one of the "great races", alongside Mongoloid and Negroid, it was taken to consist of a number of "subraces". The Caucasoid peoples were usually divided in three groups on linguistic grounds, termed Aryan (Indo-European), Semitic (Semitic languages) and Hamitic (Berber-Cushitic-Egyptian).
The postulated subraces vary depending on the author, including but not limited to Nordic, Mediterranean, Alpine, Dinaric, East Baltic, Arabid, Turanid, Iranid and Armenoid subraces."

Davids mom
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Interesting

With all those sub races, how many of those would be called 'white' in todays America?
My cousins who live in France are French. When I visit them, I am classified as American. I have seen the growth of being called American in the US, but as you can see, Suggarfoot is still angry that 50 years ago I was legally given full rights as a citizen in my homeland. Republicans (some) are concerned that their candidate may be 'black'. Your vision is truly the right vision for our country, and with citizens like you, we will achieve that vision. My grandchildren have not been referred to using the N word, and may not feel the need to hyphenate. We'll see. I'm encouraged to see/hear your point of view. And I love living the reality of the American Dream in Fayetteville!

Davids mom
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Kc

If we don't learn from the failures and successes of the past, we may make the same mistakes in the future. You may not have been in a situation where your skin color designated that you were inferior. You may not have been in a situation where you couldn't vote, eat in a place of your choice, live in a neighborhood of your choice, etc., etc., etc. People who denied these situations to others were Americans doing it to other Americans. Thank God and the implementation of the words of our Constitution this is past history to you. It's a sad part of my experience as an American citizen. I don't want my grandchildren to ever experience this treatment as part of the American experience. My sons did experience this right here in Georgia in Fayette County. It was part of the 'introduction' to Morehouse men - don't get caught in Fayette County after dark. That was a scary directive to a kid who was raised in an integrated neighborhood and school in California.

Quote:

It's really that simple to me

. Your statement is so true. But my experience and my sons experiences are different from yours. I rejoice everyday that I enjoy my American freedoms here in Fayette County - it didn't take generations to make a positive change. If the current generation takes these freedoms for granted, there is a possibility that some Americans will lose them. As long as there are Americans who want to assume that they are superior individuals because of their skin color, there is still work to be done. I see great progress, and I applaud your attitude. The history you refer to is not so ancient.

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Kchiefandy. Speaking of ONE America.

Why do I not hear conservatives urging Rebel flag flyers to fly the 50-star version? You don't much here "proud southerners" chastised for not just being Americans. I smell a very selective controversy brewing in this pot. Any opinion?

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I don't know, Kev...

...as I haven't seen the 'stars & bars' raised anywhere - officially - around here; I've seen many, many more 50-star flags, though. I've seen it in a few beat-up pickup trucks (given that I don't get out to the rural areas here much), though, just about as much as I've seen Malcolm X t-shirts & 'Black Power' fist stickers, or Mexican flag license plates. These are the divisions that I speak of that our citizens need to erase in our nation. Once you become an American, you need to BE an American.

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KCCiefAndy: You haven't seen them? Like Sugarrfoot hasn't

seen white employees working gates at ATL. That's hard to imagine. We have a Georgia State Confederate license plate. Don't think you'll find a Black Panther plate my friend.

The flag flies proudly at Stone Mountain. It flies officially and proudly along highways in Tennessee; There is a HUGE monument outside of Nashville with stars and bars and horses and all. Even GOP front runners like Rick Perry have fought to preserve this symbol of a "divided America" (following your thought process).

GOP operatives revel in courting the very popular "Cuban American" Marco Rubio. Some of the same people fearing "African-American" speak of securing the "Latino" vote by having Cuban-American Marco Rubio as number two on the presidential ticket.

My opinion, is all this talk of having certain people hide or suppress their cultural identity is simply the politics of paranoia. If Native Americans, Italian Americans, Chinese Americans, etc want to celebrate their uniqueness, no better country to exercise that freedom IMHO.

ps. Here is a national database of where you can find State sponsored Confederate Flag license plates, confederate parks, memorials, etc. Kind of hard to miss.

http://sonsofconfederateveterans.blogspot.com/2009_08_01_archive.html

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I wonder at the intent of someone

who is always looking for things that they think 'keep em down'.

Someone black on here told either you or DM that if you look for racism 24/7 behind every bush you will sooner or later find it.

I've looked at what the 2 of you have written all day today. Nothing but race non stop. You can't stand it when someone ever so politely as KC and a hoard of others through the years have told you it is..counter productive, divisionary, racist, mean spirited, etc.

The 2 of you wallow in self pity and cause indignation on the part of even those on the sidelines who were trying to figure out why your heads swivel as reliably as 'old fateful'.

Kevin are you sure you aren't DM's poor grandchild that has been indoctrinated to hate since birth? You are worse than the ones you state are hiding in the bushes. At least they have the good manners not to be on here 24/7 harping like you. If they have the feelings you feel we ..ALL.. should feel sooo guilty over, therefore keep putting you at the head of the line where you feel you so justly deserves to be at. I must say they don't make a fool of themselves like you do. If you do work for Delta, you seem to stay in the chat rooms more than you earn your living.

As far as White agents at Delta, anyone can walk through that airport and look behind the counters and gates and see what I'm saying is correct.

Delta finished dead last in customer service. That is a disgrace. It takes so little to be nice to the passengers. Yet the petty power and entitlement has ruined their image here in ATL.

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Suggarfoot! Who are you calling a

"Hoard!?" Why I never! Hurumph! :-)))

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Delta in Atlanta

Someone better get Suggarfoot's info to Atlanta - Delta is expanding it's service. I'm sure, that like most companies thar receive a bad rating in customer service, Delta will improve. What about that mess with Jet Blue? No AC or toilets! Ugh!

Davids mom
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The difference between Suggarfoot and KC

KC has never been a part of the ignorance of segregation. Suggarfoot feels that integration has taken something from him. When a rock is thrown into a group of chickens, the one hollers is the one that is hit. What Suggarfoot doesn't understand is most blacks in Fayette County have no reason to feel sorry for themselves. We have survived and achieved. . ..and for most of us, the achievement came long before affirmative action. Blacks are a minority in FC, but own 20% of the businesses. Many of those businesses are of the professional nature - medical offices, etc. KC brings out valid points of what America should /could be. Suggarfoot speaks as if he is afraid of being left behind. . and some minorities will take his place at the front of the line. It will be interesting to hear Suggarfoot's denial.

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I'm not in denial

you are...you churn your hatred 24/7

For 50 years with affirmative action and quotas you have gone to the front of the line. A little long in anyone's book. If you haven't 'caught up' in 50 years, you never will. The Jews, Arabs, Orientals that have come to this country never asked for such. It is total BS.

You preach hatred, try to instill it, and revel in it.

You are one sick old witch.

You have changed my mind. You do deserve pity!

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Suggarfoot. To show no ill will, I'll help you out.

The "Orientals" don't like that term too much. Kind of antiquated. Seriously antiquated. Don't mention it.

Cheers

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Correct, Kev...

...they're Chinese-Americans, Korean-Americans, Vietnamese-Americans, Laotion-Americans, Myanmar-Americans (or Burmese-Americans for the older ones), Thai-Americans, Phillipino-Americans, Samoan-Americans, Marshall Island-Americans, Togo-Americans, Taiwanese-Americans, Mongolian-Americans, Tibetian-Americans...whew...have I got them all yet? Wouldn't want to offend any of them! Would they all accept Asian-Americans, albeit not all actually come from Asia-proper?

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K chief. Yes

Kind of like black is more apropo than "colored"

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So that's why, Kev...

...the National Association for the Advancement of COLORED People have changed their name? I've always wondered, does that encompass Hispanics, Arabs, Caribbean Islanders, Asians, etc...? They all seem to have a different tint than white people do, but then again, isn't white a color?

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Suggarfoot

What you fail to accept is my arrogance in pointing out to you that I passed you a long time ago as did my parents and grandparents. What held you back? I don't know Kevin, but he has probably passed all of us in this discussion. I could learn from what you consider my 'hatred'. Thanks! LOL

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"What you fail to accept is

"What you fail to accept is my arrogance in pointing out to you that I passed you a long time ago as did my parents and grandparents"

Since you know nothing of my family or me that is really a strange one. I don't know anyone that knows me would consider you 'passed' me, much less your parents pass mine. I think that would be indeed far fetched. You are going more off the deep in day by day.

Your hatred spews more and more and you can't control it. you are very sad

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Suggar, I think...

...I understand what Kev is saying, its just that it (the Confederate flag) means nothing to me, personally, so I really pay it no attention at all. It's not part of my (other than the nation's) history, just as is slavery - I didn't take part in it, would not take part in it, don't agree w/ the practice. There are those closer to the issue that are more sensitive to it than I.

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ps

I've noticed that you both 1st try to intimidate, then woo others over to supporting your lame cause.

Cyclist or someone, you kept baggering agree with you that the work force at the airport for Delta isn't almost all black and sullen.

Then in an effort to win over Mytimite to your crusade.... at the end of your tiradd..."Vote Mytmite in 2012!" please!

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Sugarbabe, evidently you do not know me or read any of my posts.

I am not swayed by good looks or pretty words, both of which Kevin has in abundance. I am not in contention for the Mrs. or Miss America title--everything either sags or bags. And I definitely am not running for any political office, I am much too smart for that.

I tend to stay away from the race issue. Both sides feel they are right and according to their life experiences they probably are. My family was so poor that they were probably slaves (it is a known fact that both blacks and indians owned slaves and sometimes they were white slaves). Until people on both ends of the spectrum stop playing the blame game there will be racism and discrimination. For the most part everyone today has a chance at the gold ring if they apply themselves; if they choose not to they have no one to blame but themselves. I myself refuse to dwell on the past, live the best life I can in the present and hope for a better future, so please leave me out of your harangues. Thank you.

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Sugar, I am not aware of what 'cause' you are referring to but

believe me I am and have been a kevin fan--with or without the vote--and since I don't ever intend to run for anything-- It is much too late to try for Miss or Mrs. America--everything that can sag has sagged and what hasn't sagged has bagged--as for running for office, even I have more intelligence than that--

If you are referring to the back and forth regarding race, I try to stay out of that. Both sides feel they are right--and in their eyes they probably are. I have lived a long enough time to have seen the many inequities, black and white water fountains, no blacks allowed at restaurants and diners, and many more. I have also lived long enough to see, in some areas and arenas, the tide turn the other way. Is that justified--not for me to say. I feel that if we all keep going back to the past that we will never surpass it--we were so poor that some of my family might have been slaves to blacks or indians; it is a matter of record that both blacks and indians held slaves. I don't know and I do not care to chart any family tree. The only thing I am concerned with is the present. I feel right now the playing field is almost level for all in most arenas. I feel education is there at all levels for all--if someone does not take advantage of it that is their problem. I am against welfare of any kind--never used it--went to bed hungry many times but I lived through it and it made me stronger. Personally, I feel that all the handouts, regardless of who is receiving them, is to the detriment of our country. There was a time that family stepped in when times got bad for a family member, now we, as a nation, have become too used to Big Daddy providing for us--without stopping to think that we are Big Daddy. I think to go back and forth abour race, as with religion, is futile-everyone has the own opinions and feelings based on their experiences. I just hate to see some people insert race in every discussion--I find that very devisive. Well, there I go again--rambling on when i only wanted to say that kevin is one of the nicest people you will ever meet.

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Suggarbritches. To win over mytmite

I'd have to out bid NUK

NUK_1
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kevin: Not a chance of that

I'm TOO TALL, TOO TAN, and TOO good looking :) WHOOOOOOOO!

kevink
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Gloating is never attractive

:-p

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Ah, Nuk, you're taller but Kevin has you beat on the tan and I

have to say your are both equally purty.

hutch866
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MYTMITE

Not to put too fine a point on it, but everyone's taller then Kevin.

kevink
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Hutch. I thought it was a dream last night when i doubled over

In pain. Should have known it was a low blow from a Navy bro!

You probably kick puppies and drown kittens.

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Hutch, what he lacks in stature (definition 1) he makes up

for in stature (definition 2). Besides he is head and shoulders taller than me so I am still impressed. But then even my seven year old great grandson is taller than me!

Davids mom
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Our lame cause

Is an America that recognizes and celebrates the history and background of all if it's citizens. You don't have to participate in the discussion, we're well aware of your 'cause'.

Davids mom
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Oops

.

Davids mom
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Oops

.

kcchiefandy
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Not really, Kev...

...but I do think I've seen the plates; I thought it was the GA state flag. I did not know it is flown @ Stone Mtn; only been there twice. I've only been to TN once to whitewater raft. It does seem to be, from what I've heard, an issue between those who look as it as an historical issue (they were a country of their own at one time), and those who see it as a reminder of slavery. Both are understandable, but I've not heard the term 'Confederate-American'. I have no problem cultures 'celebrating their uniqueness', just making that 'uniqueness' their identity. As for your comments about Perry & Rubio - did I say I agreed with those stances/comments? I don't think so...

Davids mom
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Kc

Careful KC. I understand what you are saying, and many who fight side by side with Americans of different backgrounds agree wholeheartedly with you. Some feel that to be American, you must look a certain way, speak without an accent, etc.
When one travels, an American is hopefully recognized for his/ her tolerance and understanding of those who are 'different'.
Unfortunately, in the past, this has not been the case - hence the 'Ugly American' label. Native Americans who were not considered 'Citizens', Japanese Americans, whose families were imprisoned during WWII fought as Americans. No need to repeat what happened to 'black' Americans during and after WWII. That war ended in the 40's. Segregation was a national problem that was not legally ended until the 60's. Until we truly recognize one another as Americans, this hyphenation will continue. What Kevin has done should be standard fare throughout our country. We can disagree as Americans, yet still respect and understand our different points of view. Thank heavens- all Americans do not look alike! We represent our forefathers - and we're proud of the founding fathers/settlers and all who followed them to this country.

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Right, DM...

...that's exactly my point; these lessons of the past are just that, and we need to move forward as Americans and put such separatist, segregationist thought. Of course we're not all the 'same', but we can all be Americans!

Davids mom
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KC

The fact that you and I are having this discussion proves that we have moved on!LOL. This year I have celebrated the status of race relations in Georgia. However, by being engaged in this discussion, we know there is still work to do to arrive at the Americanism that you envision. Understandably Americans do not like to be reminded of an ugly past; nor do Jews or Muslims. . . but when we can all celebrate the erasure of that ugliness in our various histories, we will be proud of the progress that has been made.