She warned us . . .

Cal Thomas's picture

Sarah Palin deserves an apology. When she said that the new healthcare law would lead to “death panels” deciding who gets life-saving treatment and who does not, she was roundly denounced and ridiculed.

Now we learn, courtesy of one of the ridiculers — The New York Times — that she was right. Under a new policy not included in the law for fear the administration’s real end-of-life game would be exposed, a rule issued by the recess-appointed Dr. Donald M. Berwick, administrator of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, calls for the government to pay doctors to advise patients on options for ending their lives. These could include directives to forgo aggressive treatment that could extend their lives.

This rule will inevitably lead to bureaucrats deciding who is “fit” to live and who is not. The effect this might have on public opinion, which by a solid majority opposes Obamacare, is clear from an email obtained by the Times.

It is from Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-Ore.), who sent it to people working with him on the issue. Oregon and Washington are the only states with assisted-suicide laws, a preview of what is to come at the federal level if this new regulation is allowed to stand.

Blumenauer wrote in his November email: “While we are very happy with the result, we won’t be shouting it from the rooftops because we aren’t out of the woods yet. This regulation could be modified or reversed, especially if Republican leaders try to use this small provision to perpetuate the ‘death panel’ myth.”

Ah, but it’s not a myth, and that’s where Palin nailed it. All inhumanities begin with small steps; otherwise the public might rebel against a policy that went straight to the “final solution.” All human life was once regarded as having value, because even government saw it as “endowed by our Creator.” This doctrine separates us from plants, microorganisms and animals.

Doctors once swore an oath, which reads in part: “I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion.” Did Dr. Berwick, a fan of rationed care and the British National Health Service, ever take that oath? If he did, it appears he no longer believes it.

Do you see where this leads? First the prohibition against abortion is removed and “doctors” now perform them. Then the assault on the infirm and elderly begins. Once the definition of human life changes, all human lives become potentially expendable if they don’t measure up to constantly “evolving” government standards.

It will all be dressed up with the best possible motives behind it and sold to the public as the ultimate benefit. The killings, uh, terminations, will take place out of sight so as not to disturb the masses who might have a few embers of a past morality still burning in their souls. People will sign documents testifying to their desire to die, and the government will see it as a means of “reducing the surplus population,” to quote Charles Dickens.

When life is seen as having ultimate value, individuals and their doctors can make decisions about treatment that are in the best interests of patients. But when government is looking to cut costs as the highest good and offers to pay doctors to tell patients during their annual visits that they can choose to end their lives rather than continue treatment, that is more than the proverbial camel’s nose under the tent. That is the next step on the way to physician-assisted suicide and, if not stopped, government-mandated euthanasia.

It can’t happen here? Based on what standard? Yes it can happen in America, and it will if the new Republican class in Congress doesn’t stop it.

[Cal Thomas is America’s most widely syndicated op-ed columnist, appearing in more than 600 national newspapers. He is the author of more than 10 books and is a FOX News political contributor since 1997. Email Cal Thomas at tmseditors@tribune.com.] ©2010 TRIBUNE MEDIA SERVICES, INC.

Georgia Patriot
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Democrats are at it Again

Cheating that is, from Red State http://www.redstate.com/mikehammond/2011/01/10/what-time-is-it-its-time-... Majority Leader Harry Reid used bribes, extortion, and corruption to buy the votes he needed to pass vast swathes of liberal legislation, including ObamaCare.
Reid used a procedural tactic called an “amendment tree” to virtually eliminate Republicans’ ability to offer amendments of interest to them for an entire year.
Reid scheduled as many as four or five bills simultaneously for no other reason than to buy off votes for his upcoming election -– also blocking all amendments to these bills.
Reid wallowed in fiscal fraud, claiming that ObamaCare would reduce the deficit -– and, at the same time, sneaking $250 billion in costs onto other legislation.
Reid used this procedural sleaze to cram more Big Government legislation down the throats of the
American people than in any Congress in the last 40 years.

Chris P. Bacon
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Republicans are at it Again

Republican legislators, having successfully gamed the Senate rules for two solid years via abuse of the filibuster procedure (more filibusters in the past two years than in the first two CENTURIES combined in America), are now faced with the prospect of the Senate changing rules for the upcoming two year term.

Not surprisingly, they are howling in pain. They want the rules to stay just the way they were from 2008-2010. This would allow them to successfully subvert majority rule in America, and essentially make us a "minority rule" nation.

Majority leader Harry Reid has proposed a simple rule change in the Senate which strikes fear in the hearts of Republicans: if they want to filibuster a bill, they'll actually have to filibuster it, not just file an intention to filibuster. In other words, its no longer enough to "talk the talk", Republicans will have to "walk the walk". Republicans can talk as long as they wish....but once they're finished, we'll have a vote. This has the result of destroying the Republican "delay and defer" strategery.

Another rule change would be to remove so-called "anonymous holds" on nominations. Right now, Republicans effectively use "anonymous holds" to prevent non-white, non-male candidates from being confirmed for positions. They can still indulge in their racist and misogynist ways, but they'll now have to go on record with their objections.

Naturally, some of the more racist and misogynist senators, not unlike cockroaches, despise having light shown upon them. They've dispatched their minions writing slanted editorials in tertiary fringe blogs throughout teh interwebs, and are counting on dullards like Ga Pat to promote their biased views.

Georgia Patriot
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Filibuster Reform

Bacon, this has nothing to do with race! This has everyhting to do with Constitutional Government! Even outgoing lib senator Chris Dodd thinks it is a bad idea http://www.redstate.com/brian_d/2010/12/01/filibuster-reform-is-unwise/ -GP

Chris P. Bacon
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Okay, lets talk "constitutional government"

Let's talk about "Constitutional Government" then:

The United States Constitution
Article One, Section 5, Clause 2: "Each House may determine the rules of its proceedings, punish its members for disorderly behavior, and, with the concurrence of two thirds, expel a member."

That's it. Period. The Constitution says NOTHING else about Senate rules.

The Senate, by tradition (not law), sets aside the first day of business of each term to A) administer Oath of Offices; B) hold leadership elections and C) determine rule changes that will be in force for the upcoming term.

"C" is the stickler here. You'll recall that evil Republican senators floated the idea of a mid-term rules change ("Nuclear Option") back when they felt judges weren't getting confirmed fast enough. (My my how they've changed their tune!). The Nuclear option was disarmed primarily out of Senate respect for tradition.

January 2011 starts a brand new term in Congress. The majority (NOT supermajority) of the Senate decides what rules it will abide by for the next two years.

The majority can (and hopefully WILL) decide to modify filibuster rules, given the Republican abuse of the filibuster over the past two years.

People like Chris Dodd can stamp their feet all they want, but at the end of the day, America is governed under majority rule.

PTC Observer
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Bacon - sad

"..America is governed under majority rule."

Sad but true, we live in a democracy, not a Republic. We live under the tyranny of the majority, where 51% of the people steal from the other 49%.

Georgia Patriot
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Bacon

Partisan politics aside,this will be bad for America. The Senate was originally intended to represent the states and temper/slow the legal process. Don't you think that in 2012 if the R's win they will pass the same rule and shove back, dismantling everything the last congress enacted? This is not the way the founders designed our government. -GP

Chris P. Bacon
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Republican retaliation
Georgia Patriot wrote:

Partisan politics aside,this will be bad for America. The Senate was originally intended to represent the states and temper/slow the legal process. Don't you think that in 2012 if the R's win they will pass the same rule and shove back, dismantling everything the last congress enacted? This is not the way the founders designed our government. -GP

Well, not surprisingly I disagree with your premise.

First, I believe you have two assumptions that bear closer scrutiny. You presume a Republican takeover of the Senate in 2012, an "iffy" proposition at best (let's save that debate for a different thread pls).

Secondly, you make the assumption that, assuming Republican control of the Senate (May God have mercy on us), that the Republicans will act in good faith. Recent history has shown that the Republican party of today does not deal in good faith, that is to say, the idea of quid pro quo is basically a non-starter.

If history has shown us one thing, it is that Republicans will do whatever it takes to gain/retain power. Republicans will modify Senate rules unilaterally without regard to either tradition or the wishes of the minority party.

In other words, it doesn't matter one iota what the Senate does for the upcoming term with regards to rules, the next time (God forbid) Republicans gain control of the Senate they WILL change rules to their benefit.

As such, there is little to be lost and much to gain from the proposed rule changes by Senator Reid. There was a groundswell of support for these changes back in 2008, back then Senators Byrd, Kerry and Dodd basically...and in retrospect naively...argued for "tradition for tradition"'s sake, with disasterous results for Democrats.

We've had a record ...or near-record... of unconfirmed Presidential appointments to both Executive and Judicial branches. Two year delays are NOT how the founding fathers envisioned American governance. A president should have the RIGHT to fill executive branch positions subject to an up-or-down vote of Congress, and not be subject to indefinite delays.

I remember the last significant rule change in the House: by tradition (again, there's that word!!), congressional committees had one more member of the ruling party than the minority party. This in effect forced a unanimous vote by the majority party to get controversial legislation out of committee.

When Republicans gained the House, they made a small but very important change in committee makeup: increasing the size of the majority party to TWO more members on subcommittees and THREE more majority members on the "big" committees (Appropriations, Rules, Defense). This tremendously increased the clout of lobbyists, as controversial legislation could be voted out of committee now by committed factions, not unanimous parties.

Change is often controversial...but it is inevitable.

I understand the Republican desire for status quo, I just don't think it will be possible to maintain the damaged 2009-2010 term rules for 2011-2012.

PTC Observer
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Bacon - All

is fair in love and politics. I think I would agree with you here Bacon. The fact is that the rules can be changed by each house based on the majority in those houses. The Democrats want to cling to power, that is natural. However, when and if the Republican gain control of the Senate, they will change them again. Tradition be damned.

Georgia Patriot
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Our System

of government is changing into something the founders wouldn't even recognize. We are losing the Republic and becoming a Democracy. "The release of initiative and enterprise made possible by self-government ultimately generates disintegrating forces from within. Again and again, after freedom brings opportunity and some degree of plenty, the competent become selfish, luxury-loving and complacent; the incompetent and unfortunate grow envious and covetous; and all three groups turn aside from the hard road of freedom to worship the golden calf of economic security. The historical cycle seems to be: from bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from selfishness to apathy; from apathy to dependency; and from dependency back to bondage once more."- Author Unknown. -GP

Chris P. Bacon
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Dealing with Citizen blogger extremist rightwingers

Look through this thread to find a textbook example of how to stand up to the right wing extremists that infest this site.

Georgia Patriot started the imbroglio with his lie "Mike, I think most of SDS is working in the White House now!"

I challenged him to produce evidence of ONE former SDS member working in the White House.

Working together with Observerofu, Ga Pat provided three names: Jeff Jones, Jim Wallis and Andrew Stern.

I asked the two of them to provide proof that A) they were SDS members and B) they held White House positions.

They immediately jettisoned Jeff Jones, who was an SDS member but had nothing to do with the White House.

That left Jim Wallis and Andrew Stern.

Jim Wallis WAS an SDS member in college, and is now an ordained Christian minister and the full-time publisher of Soujourner magazine. (Georgia Patriot seems to have a great deal of hatred against Christians). What is Wallis' job "working in the White House"? Well, some magazine called him President Obama's "spiritual advisor"...so that is his "job" at the White House.

What about Andrew Stern, then?

Andrew Stern attended a school that was run by two former members of the SDS. Guilt by association? Justice Anton Scalia attended the Statist school as a child, whose founders were ardent Nazi supporters. Does this make Scalia a Nazi?

In any event, what is Stern's job "working in the White House"? He holds an unpaid part-time job on a Presidential Commission on Government Reform.

Three lies.

As you can see, this is a classic example of the lies that extremists such as Georgia Patriot and Observerofu will foist upon this board. They will say or do literally anything they can do to de-legitimize the lawfully elected President Barack Obama.

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and you will do anything to keep from admitting you are wrong

but then again coming from a progressive what else could you be?

Chris P. Bacon wrote:

I challenge you to name ONE SINGLE member...or former member... of the SDS currently working for the White House in ANY capacity.

Now you want to argue semantics? You said ANY capacity. We showed you at least two with DIRECT access and contact working for the Whitehouse i.e. Obama and one that heads up a group that Obama works with.

I again challenge you personally show me where Stern has EVER denied being in the SDS. Surely the charges have been made dozens of times. He should have at least ONE interview where he denies it don't cha think?

Show us Bacon just how smart you think you are.

Just like when you challenged all to prove Iran is a terrorist country. You where shut down then and we have proved your intellectual dishonesty again here.

The only person lying on this thread bacon is you to yourself.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2010/02/obama-names-seius-st...
"Obama Names SEIU's Stern to Deficit Commission"

Is that "ANY" capacity enough for you?

Chris P. Bacon
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Argument From Ignorance
Observerofu wrote:

I again challenge you personally show me where Stern has EVER denied being in the SDS. Surely the charges have been made dozens of times. He should have at least ONE interview where he denies it don't cha think?

Show us Bacon just how smart you are.

Gladly.

Argument from ignorance, also known as argumentum ad ignorantiam or appeal to ignorance, is an informal logical fallacy. It asserts that a proposition is necessarily true because it has not been proven false.

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Can't do it can you Bacon

sort of shoot holes in your argument doesn't it?

I guess in the absence of your evidence our evidence stands. You see when one side provides evidence of a fact in question and the other side fails to provide any counter-arguments and/or evidence then the evidence in question stands.

You said "ANY" capacity! I quoted YOU! We showed YOU that Sterns was in the SDS and working with the Whitehouse on a committee for Fiscal Responsibility. That dear bacon complies with YOUR challenge.

You said "ANY" capacity! I quoted YOU! We showed YOU that Wallis was in the SDS and working with the Whitehouse specifically Obama's Advisory Council on Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships. That dear bacon complies with YOUR challenge.

Now Jones is anecdotal granted. He heads up the Apollo Alliance that works directly with Obama. So yes guilt by association works here.

But go ahead hurl a few insults claim we lie some more and say you won the argument..

This is exactly why I said this:

http://www.thecitizen.com/node/5259#comment-20587
See comment #12

It is obvious now. You don't have the intellectual capacity to debate. Oh you can argue but then again what counter arguments have you given?

You say GP, PTCO and I lied about Sterns ok prove it! All you have to do is present Sterns own denial. Simple just go out there and find it.

Oh wait you can't can you?

So knowing you are incorrect but yet still claiming you are somehow right shows how delusional you have become.

Chris P. Bacon
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Let's review...

You used the logical fallacy "Argument From Ignorance" to "prove" Stern's credentials.

You used the logical fallacy "Guilt By Association" to "prove" Jones' credentials.

Using a logical fallacy is not acceptable procedure in a debate. Your points are considered forfeited to me. Ask any debate judge in America.

That leaves Reverend Wallis.

Wallis joined the SDS in college.
He holds a full time job as the publisher of a religious magazine.
Obama appointed him to a one year term on a Presidential Commission in 2009.
His term expired in February 2010. (LINK)
He received no compensation for working on this commission, nor did any of the other 24 religious figures on this commission.

The challenge for you was to identify someone "working for the White House". Since he is no longer on the council(LINK), Wallis has failed to meet the criteria specified

NOTE: Even if Wallis was on the council, is a volunteer who is not being paid considered "working"? When I volunteer to build houses for Habitat For Humanity, am I "working" for them? When you donate blood to the Red Cross are you "working" for the Red Cross?

I urge you to try again to identify a current or former SDS member working for the White House.

You've failed miserably, so far.

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Bacon as my daughter would say "Whatever" Here's the FACTS

The FACT is you extended a challenge.

The FACT is you said you wanted to see some evidence of current or FORMER SDS members in the Whitehouse.

The FACT is you said in ANY capacity.

The FACT is you never stipulated a paid position.

The FACT is you never stipulated it had to be still current.

The FACT is we did all that and more.

Now that you actually LOST your challenge the FACT is you want to move the bar and ignore your own WORDS.

Now if you wish to move the bar and re-issue the challenge then so be it. I am sure we all understand.

Here are a few you could issue:

Prove there are MAO sympathizer's in the Whitehouse.

OR

Prove there are anti-free market people heading up economic positions in or connected to the Whitehouse.

OR

Prove there are/were avowed Communist in or connected to the Whitehouse.

These are but a few of the challenges you could offer.

Bacon your continued quibbling on this after we have already bested your little challenge to in some small way assuage your ego is a better insight into your personality then anything I could ever do.

Ninja Guy
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Hey Bacon

You got me thinking. You think the posts of those you named are part of some larger organized effort?

Oh, and very effective deconstruction of that SDS thing. I don't even know what SDS is. Too much going on in sports land these days:)

Chris P. Bacon
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Ninja

I don't think it's part of an organized effort, it's more of a "let's throw stuff against the wall and see what sticks". Opportunistic sliming, if you will.

The SDS thing brought up a fundamental weakness of the fringe right: cultural relevancy. Most of the fringe right are frightened white men over 50 who hold a great deal of animosity towards a world where white men over 50 are dwindling in number.

They attack, mostly out of fear, but many of the examples they use for their jihad lack cultural relevance.

The SDS whining was a good example. Many people over, say, 55 remember the radical SDS from the mid-1960s. In all honesty, I had to look them up because I'm hazy on their details, and I'm just about in that demographic. I imagine that anyone under 50 saw the phrase "SDS" and went "huh?". It just doesn't register with them.

Another example is "Chicago Politics" or "Chicago voting"...those are ancient references to alleged voter fraud in Chicago way back in the 1960 election, fully 50+ years ago. This would have significance to anyone over 60, but the two generations that came of age after the Kennedy election would just scratch their heads.

Glad you enjoyed watching me demolish the SDS lies. It was a good way to pass a snow day. Hopefully, more people will view Ga Pat's rants with increased skepticism now that I've exposed his lack of integrity.

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I've been wondering about

the right's pre-occupation with socialism. Last time I checked, the socialist/communist states had crumbled and the citizenry are working hard to make up for all the years lost under those systems. Still, the right fears that the 'commies are coming to get us.' I suppose that this fits with the profile of the over-50 set, which was raised on the Cuban Missile Crisis, the Domino Theory, and other issues of that era.

Go Falcons!

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Socialism

As long as it is out in the open for all to see I have no fear of anyone's views. The closet Marxist's are the ones that are dangerous. Oh..and Go Falcons! We have a least one thing in common.-LOL -GP

Georgia Patriot
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Obama's Radical Connections

You say SDS member Jeff Jones had nothing to do with the White House? How about writing the Stimulas bill, does that count? http://thespeechatimeforchoosing.wordpress.com/2009/08/26/shocker-domest... Jim Wallis former SDS member and "Social Justice Christian" works as Obama's "spiritual advisor" http://logisticsmonster.com/2010/03/23/jim-wallis-obamas-new-spiritual-a... and SDS trained Andy Stern visted Obama 22 times in 2009 and in 2010 Obama created the National Commision on Fiscal Resposibility and Reform with Andy Stern as member http://www.fiscalcommission.gov/members All of the above are have connections to the White House. Technically Bacon you are correct, "working in the white house" was not correct, I should have stated that many former SDS radicals and their associates have connections to Obama. Care to disagree with that? -GP

Chris P. Bacon
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Ga Pat the Zealot

You'll do anything to avoid admitting you were wrong, wont you boy?

This is what I was talking about yesterday when I said you could rationalize anything.

First of all, the White House doesn't write legislation. Congress does. Had you bothered to take American Government in high school, you'd have learned that. Since you obviously didn't, though, here's a refresher course (it's designed for elementary level students, so you should have no trouble grasping the salient points.

Jeff Jones holds a full-time paid position for a progressive organization.

Jeff Jones is not "working for the White House". YOU LIED.

Jim Wallis is an ordained Christian minister and the publisher of Soujouners magazine.

Jim Wallis is not "working for the White House". YOU LIED.

Andrew Stern is a full-time labor organizer who holds an unpaid position on a Presidential Commission, along with 20 other United States Senators and 3 civilians. He has never been a member of SDS.

Andrew Stern is not "working for the White House". YOU LIED.

You've shown us that you will say/do anything to advance your political position. This is one of the fundamental characteristics of a zealot.

Georgia Patriot
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SDS Connections

I listed several SDS connections above, apparently you have a reading comprehension problem or did not vist the links, instead you choose to argue semantics using the incorrect "working for the white house", I have already admitted the phrase I use in a joking fashion(working IN the white house) was wrong. Here, I will say this again. Obama and his administration have numerous ties to left wing radicals as anyone with an open mind and a computer can see. Care to discuss this fact or would you rather continue with the pointless argument of who is in/on/at/around? -GP

Chris P. Bacon
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Ties = Tenuous connections

Okay, I'll admit I didn't see the last sentence of your previous post. Perhaps in the future you could put a paragraph break or two in a post, it makes things easier to read.

In any event, I'm glad you've backed off your glib "working for the White House" falsehood. I don't agree with your "numerous ties to left wing radicals" opinion because the word "ties" is very nebulous, as the exchange of the past 24 hours have shown.

Nevertheless, you've got as much right to your opinion as I do mine. Another area where we'll have to agree to disagree.

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Finally We Agree

to disagree-LOL. -GP

Joe Kawfi
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Squealing Pig

You were called out on the lie that you posted about Loughner being a registered Republican. That shut you up real fast. C'mon pig boy, squeal for us more. Can you go 'wee-wee-wee-wee' all the way home?

Chris P. Bacon
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Call me out again, big boy

OOOOh call me out again, big boy!

I posted a screen print of Georgia Patriot's spiritual brother Jared Loughner's voter registration, and you "debunked" it by pointing us to a looney tunes right wing diatribe that said it was false because...ummm, well it's just false!

That's some serious debunkin'! Do it again!

Hey, maybe you could help your slimebrothers find a former SDS member workin' in the White House....they failed miserably yesterday to prove their accusation, maybe your superior "research" skillz could help them!

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Attaboy!

Squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaal! Squeal like a stuck pig for us some more!

From the Arizona Star: Loughner registered to vote for the first time in 2006, said Chris Roads, Pima County's registrar of voters. He registered as an independent and last voted in the 2008 general election.

bladderq
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Dreamed the RealDeal Inag was Canceled

but awoke to the "Hammer" becoming da Nail. Only 3 yrs? It was corruption not for money ala Jefferson (D) & the Duke (R), but to subvert the system for a pure power grab. I am sure he was guilty of something w/ his Abramoff connection, his aides were. I'm not sure how our own Sunny has escaped but I will be amazed if the RealDeal doesn't go down before the end of the term.

Ninja Guy
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The Interesting Thing Is

that some of our fellow bloggers appear to have similarities in their neural networks with the shooter.

Courtesy of PTCO

"Education to control our minds?
Health to control our bodies?
Property to control our incomes?"

Note the repetition of 'to control.' I have noticed this to be a recurring theme of those on the far right. Someone, usually the government, is bent on controlling us through various schemes, devices, and institutions.

I have seem some reports that the shooter was also concerned about the nation's currency, which he deemed 'illegitimate' I believe.

He wanted to institute a new currency backed by silver and gold. Sound familiar fellow bloggers?

Am I saying that PTCO and others are mentally ill like the shooter. No. What I am suggesting is that such people are born with a certain brain structure that makes them prone to excessive worry about control by outside forces, which leads to to adopt far-right ideas, which provide a sense of emotional safety, even if there is no chance such ideas will every be implemented. Just thinking about them reduces the anxiety caused by the fear of control.

On the other side, people that PTCO and others would label leftist probably have a brain structure that does not cause excessive worry about being controlled by malevolent forces, leaving more neural space for empathy-driven thinking. Or, perhaps their brain structures are wired for higher levels of emphathy from the beginning, and this overides any fear of control by 'outside' forces.

In some of my previous posts, I mentioned my brain structure theory of individual political throught, and the above is it in a very small nutshell.

carbonunit52
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Red brain, blue brain

There are differences that have been observed in the brains between those indentifying themselves as conservatives and those indentifying themselves as liberals (a.k.a. not conservatives), and similarities in brains within each group. The observation that interested me is that it is not the brain activity areas that determines your orientation, rather it is your orientation that affects the brain. We are not hard wired for one view or the other, our free will determines our brains by choosing the thoughts we think, not the other way around. I was like, you know, so relieved to realize this.

Ninja Guy
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Reply to Cabron Unit

I am not suggesting that we are totally hard wired. More like soft wired. I think I have seen studies suggesting that women tend to be more liberal in their political leanings. If so, I would ascribe this more to hormonal impact on brain activity rather than hardwiring, i.e., pure brain structure.

Am I wrong that the expression of anger and fear seems to be more prevalent on the right than on the left?

carbonunit52
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Ninja Guy

I agree, the expression of anger and fear is more prevalant on the right than on the left, as well as a distinct lack of empathy on the right.

I believe women would tend to be more liberal in their political leanings because they are more nurturing and not as warlike as males, not to mention that they can use both sides of their brain at the same time. Now I can just hear it: "Carbonunit, it is the woman in you that makes you a liberal (a.k.a. not a conservative)". LOL

Ninja Guy
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It is a curious thing

isn't it. The fear and anger. Now. those anarchists out in Seattle can get mighty worked up with their anti-corporatism. But after all their rock throwing and demonstrating, they usually retire to the nearest Starbucks to sip lattes and listen to their i-things rather than play with their glocks.

bladderq
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How Dare U.

Every mentally deranged individual: be he/her, right/in the middle/left; has every right to purchase an own a high power pistol w/ several extended clips. Just so that they can be part of the "well regulated militia" which this nut case was unable to do when he tried to join the army but was able to buy a $400 gun, unemployed. Now if AZ is such a big everyone & their granny carry state, How could this happen? I am sure our quick-draw guys on this site would have taken care of biz. Probably adding to the toll.

PTC Observer
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bladderq

Read the 2nd Admendment, if you don't like it, petition to have it repealed.

That's the American way.

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Ninja - In thinking

In thinking about your theory, it was bothering me that I had this vague recollection that I had heard it before. Then it came to me, Friedrich Nietzsche! Now why doesn’t it surprise me that you would have a theory similar to the philosophy of Nietzsche. The nineteenth century philosopher that was the keystone of the Nationalist Socialists, he believed in the idea that we are divided into a slave class and a master class based on biology. But of course you would have already read his works now wouldn’t you?

Hitler had a bust of Nietzsche in his office.

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Friedrich Nietzsche

No, can't say I know much about Friedrich Nietzsche, other than that 'God is dead' quote. Never heard about the master-slave biology theory. I would not subscribe to that. Do you?

I came up with my theory based on research into brain structure. Hormones like oxytocin seem to play a large role as well. The amygdala controls the fear response. Whether it plays a large role in shaping one's political thought through an overactive fear of outside control I don't know--will require more research. But, worth pursuing I think. Perhaps I can get a government grant to fund it:)

Did you know that Einstein's IQ was only about 160 or so? His ability to delve so deeply into space-time and other subjects appears to stem from the direct interaction of two parts of the brain that normally do no do so. The missing part of his brain seems to have allowed this. Interesting stuff.

What I am suggesting is that brain neural/chemical structure could play more of a role in shaping one's political thought than, say, does upbringing. Just a hunch.

Just based on my observations in our tight-knit blogging community, there seems to be more anger and fear on what most would call the right, whereas those that would be deemed to be on the left seem to have more of a sense of humor and not as fearful of 'outside forces.'

I thought you were were acting a bit too warm and fuzzy just after the holidays. I guess your oxytocin levels are down to normal now, seeing as how you launched into 'you are a Nazi' mode.

Now, about that Falcons. I'm not sure they can beat the Packers twice, despite playing in the dome. What's your take on the game?

If you could write about football and libertarianism at the same time, it would make my life a whole lot easier. Those guys on the sports blogs have not read much von Mises.

Go Falcons!

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Ninja - read this

Beyond Good and Evil

read it during half time shouldn’t take you too long.

The theory of biological differences in people's philosophical beliefs goes back a long way, I believe Dr. Josef Mengele was an avid proponent of this theoretical approach. You're in very good company.

The irrational mind is always the sanctuary of depravity.

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No Thank You

I found an online version and clicked on a random chapter. First line old Freddy is praising Wagner's work as epitomizing the pride of the German race. Seems old Freddy was one of those master race guys. Don't think I'll be reading that stuff. Some things you just don't want to put in your brain. I'll leave you to explore such depravity and report back to us on that. If you can' write about the Falcons and libertarianism in the same paragraph, perhaps you could give us a treatise linking Freddy's work and QE2.

Go Falcons!

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Too bad Ninja

I thought it would be right up your alley, since you are following in the footsteps so to speak.

I guess you will have to come up with your own biological theories all by yourself between quarters.

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So You Think

there are no biological factors in political thought? Everyone comes out of the womb with the same blank neural network? Doesn't sound plausible based on what we know know about hormonal influences on the prenatal brain.

PTC Observer
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No Ninja - everything

relates to the brain, all I am saying is that you are not breaking new ground in your theory. There have been many before you that attempted to correlate human action, thought, political and religious with biology of the brain, genetics, etc. In fact, thousands have died trying to correlate such traits to action. Your among good company.

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Not suggesting any

action at all. Just trying to understand all the fear on your side of the fence. Even when I was heavily into von Mises, it was not out of fear. Just good-natured curiosity.

Go Falcons!

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Fear? Ninja

Actually I don't think you know much about Von Mises, or Hayek. I do think you are good at Google searches though.

Fear of government power over individual freedom is a justified fear. This has been proven throughout most of human history, our times are no different. Those that live within their insulated world are the first to say "What happened?" when things go terribly wrong. I count you among this group.

You don't need to be concerned about it though; you should just go back to your television and sit there transfixed to its screen. A person of your depth need not waste your time on mere government power over your life. You're a realist after all.

I do enjoy your amusing posts, so keep amusing us. I will amuse you with mine.

Now go back to the game. See Libertarian thought and football all in one post!!

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You Confirmed My Suspicion

that you are a dooms-dayer, revealed in your 'when things go terribly wrong' line. Some people in every generation will nervously wait for the end of the world, while others will embrace life and all its joys, including football.

You just can't accept that someone read all of that von Mises, Hayek, and Rothbard stuff and rejected it. I've told you over and over. I spent hundreds if not thousands of dollars on all that stuff, even before there was a von mises.org site--just a little mail order catalog. Got smart one day and dumped several box loads of it into the books for charity bin, as none of it would sell at the yard sale.

I wonder if Roddy White is into von Mises?

Go Falcons!

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Ninja - go

Go hug your TV....and embrace life and all of its joys.

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Actually, I don't watch TV

because they, and you know who they are, try to control your mind by shooting those beams into your brain. ESPN is even in on this conspiracy. I'm surprised that you didn't get the memo from dooms-dayers anonymous. I watch football on the Internet via gamecast. It's the only safe way.

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Hey Ninja

Watch out for those secret cameras embedded in TV sets and especially on the internet via gamecast. It is how the government watches us now.

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Normal: Thanks for the Tip

I know about the cameras in the TV sets. That's why I don't have one. Didn't know about the ones in gamecast. I guess the Michael Eisner did take Kissenger's place on the Tri-Lateral Commission after all. I have seen some anti-government-camera Internet scramblers on e-bay. I will have to get one before the Falcons-Packers game. Thanks for the info. I've also heard that you can wrap your entire body in aluminum foil and wear those blue-tinted sunglass while watching and that works just as well as the scramblers. Now, if I can just get that government-implanted chip out of my head. They shoot it in there when you get your driver's license picture take you know.

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Blue Glasses

Where do you get those? I can't seem to find them on the internet.

Any immediate help would be appreciated, as soon as you can please!!!

My body is getting all sweaty in this foil thing.

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Thanks

I am going to get blue sun glasses and tin foil

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OK Ninja

ESPN?

Is that Especially Spineless Political Neutrals?

They have a special station for you guys?

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Scientists have discovered

Scientists have discovered a very strong correlation between lack of oxygen at birth and extremist intolerant political positions.

It's called "Kawfi Syndrome".

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Scientists (squeeeeaaaaal) have (squeeeeeeaaaal) discovered
Chris P. Bacon wrote:

Scientists have (squeeeeaaaaal!) discovered a very (squeeeeeeaaaaaaal!!) strong correlation between (squeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaal) lack of oxygen at birth (squeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaal!!!) and extremist intolerant political positions (squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal!!!!).

Squeeeeaaaaaal again for us Krispy! Squeeeeaaal like the stuck pig that you are.

Folks - don't come down on poor krispy too hard - his momma dropped him on his head several times when he was just a little squeeaaaaling piglet.

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Joe, Joe, Joe

you should stop with the squeal sounds. James Dickey (or his estate if he is gone now) might sue for plagiarism.

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Bacon - So?

So, there was nothing that they could do for you at birth? ;-)

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PTC Observer

Not much you can do for them after they have been dropped on their heads a few times. The damage is done and all the little piglets want to do is squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal!

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Ninja - I am

afraid I don't follow football....too violent.

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PTC O
Quote:

....football....too violent.

You got that right. However, since I lived in Pittsburgh in the 70's...Go Steelers!

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Ninja - Interesting

Interesting theory, and where would that put you in this theory?

On the right, left, or middle?

Luck would have it that there were those that had a healthy fear of governmental power, you know like Madison, Jefferson, and the like. It seems their fear of government power allows you to have your theories of individual political "throught" (sic).

Seriously, it is an interesting thought but I suspect that it is really a fear of power unrestrained that I worry about more than "far right thinking". Oh, that's right...I am a far right thinker.

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Power unrestrained

Well, power that is not unrestrained would not be much to fear now would it.

As for me, I have told you again and again. I am a realist--pretty much apolitical now. I think the government--federal, state, and local--are all functioning pretty much as intended, tax rates are pretty much where they should be, and our elected officials are doing about the best they can. Overall, I vote for the status quo.

Thats about all I have to say until after the Super Bowl.

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So, I guess that puts you

right in the middle.

Neutral, not a bad place to be if your world revolves around the Super Bowl.

Enjoy your freedom.

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More Like

on the sidelines.

Go Falcons!

PTC Observer
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Sidelines

Sidelines, seems like your life is a bit sidelined.

However, you have every right to be sidelined if that's what you want.

lion
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equivalency BS

The hate and violent speech comes from the Right. That is obvious to anyone who tries to listen to AM radio. It is obvious to anyone who watches Fox. There are no voices on the Left who remotely have the exposure or voice of Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh, Boortz, et al.

That is more threatening because the Right and the Tea party have a very close love affair with the gun carry advocates and NRA.

The violent right wing talk and the gun advocates are a very toxic element in American politics.

After a Democratic Congresswoman is shot and others killed and wounded, the right wing talkers and politicians use their radio and TV platforms to make it appear that they are the real victims. They appear to claim that right wing hate talk does not have any consequences, but the liberal talk suggesting that the right wing verbal bullies have some responsibility for this tragedy hurts them so much and is so unfair.

The right wing talk radio bullies and their allies in the gun lobby have poisened American politics for too long. They need to be held accountable.

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poor, poor "Lion"

"Lion"

Did the big, bad wight wing wadio bullies and the allies give you a boo-boo on your tum-tum? Did Kwispie come and kiss yew owie and make it all better? You're such a little jagoff. Night-night Wion.

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Sad but true, Lion

I ordered a copy of The Eliminationists today, a book about how Hate radio radicalizes the right wing.

Closer to home, we have our own home grown Taliban here in Fayette. There are three mullahs who take it as a personal insult when someone disagrees with them. Mullah Kawfi, Mullah oofu and Mullah h8triot spam this board day in and day out, seeking to drown out opposing viewpoints. All three of them have truthiness issues, none moreso than mullah oofu.

If you want to see something even worse than these three jackwagons, go take a look at Sarah "Crosshairs" Palin's Facebook comment page. I have never seen such raw naked hatred before. Palin is a demogogue's demogogue.

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Lion - How?

How would you propose that they "be held accountable"?

In the forum of public opinion? Or some other way?

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Petey C, challenge them!
PTC Observer wrote:

How would you propose that they "be held accountable"?

In the forum of public opinion? Or some other way?

Challenge their supporters. Never, ever let a lie go by. When people like Mullah h8riot gets his talking points from Hate Radio, challenge each and every one of them.

Chances are, the talking points won't stand up to close scrutiny anyway.

Let them know that they are a small...vocal but small....bunch of hate-filled ideological zealots that cannot and should not be trusted.

Never let a fringe looney-tuner control the debate...we learned that last year with the FairTax Fools. Make them prove their case, it's not up to the majority to justify the status quo.

They want change? Let them present their flimsy cases.

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Bacon

You must be a legend...in your own mind. You are so full of it. I get my "talking points" from what used to be called "common sense", not the Daily KOS like you. The only one spewing hate ideology around here is you, you're trying desperately to link the deranged nut-job to Beck/Rush/Palin/ Tea Party. Here's a news flash for you, it's not working. There was a real tragedy in Arizona, we should be all praying for her recovery. -GP

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Bacon - I support

I support your position on this, it is ideas that should be debated and challenged.

Even if I don't agree with your ideas, I don't have to be too abrasive about it. Right?

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Hate Radio is glowin' incandescent today

NY Times reporting that the Hate Radio airwaves are approaching a group meltdown today.

Whiny hatemeisters blubbering "it's not our fault"
Their audiences succoring them "It's not your fault"

Deep down I think they realize that a page has been turned...and that America truly despises these bloviators AND their ignorant dittosheep audiences.

Edited to add: 'entertainer' Rush Limbaugh blames Tucson Sheriff for shooting
Such an amusing "entertainer". I'm sure the Usual Suspects here got a kick out of his show today, along with many good talking points.

PTC Observer
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Bacon - Limbaugh

The problem with conservatives is that they always seem to find buffoons as popular spokespeople. They are all entertaining but lack a certain depth of understanding of the situations confronting them. Rush is a good example of this.

The problem with liberals is that their arguments are all based on dishonest premises.

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Buffons

These AM talkers are first and foremost in it for the big bucks. They provide what sells. If one has an issue with their rhetoric one should question the buyer not the seller. However, bear in mind, the right does not have a monopoly on a lack of critical thinking.

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SPQR - totally

agree with you last statement.

swac
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Time line of hate

One can claim both sides do it but that in itself is a lie. The Right Wing hate machine is almost a monopoly.
For a really scary look at the last two years of hate speech and crimes look at- http://www.csgv.org/issues-and-campaigns/guns-democracy-and-freedom/insu....
Be afraid be very afraid

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Time line of hate, continued

Abraham Lincoln (1865) - killed by John Wilkes Booth, a Democrat
James Garfield (1881) - killed by Charles J. Guiteau, a Democrat
William McKinley (1901) - killed by Leon Czolgosz, Democratic Anarchist
John F. Kennedy (1963) - killed by Lee Harvey Oswald, Communist
Attempts on:
Andrew Jackson by Robert B. Randolph, Democrat Liberal
Franklin D. Roosevelt by Giuseppe Zangara, Democrat Liberal
Harry S. Truman by Pedro Albizu Campos, Nationalist Socialist
Gerald Ford by Lynette "Squeaky" Fromme, a follower of Charles Manson, Socialist
Ronald Reagan by John Hinckley, Jr., Registered Democrat

Whether Insane or Sane - Jared Loughner chose to commit these heinous crimes in an environment where illegalities are not only sanctioned by the Federal Government and encouraged by the current Administration, any attempt by Arizona to protect itself and the Citizenry is condemned and sued by the Barack Obama Administration.

swac
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Democrats. I think not.

John Wilkes Booth. A Confederate sympathizer and slavery advocate. Not A Democrat

Charles J. Guiteau. A Lawyer, a self styled Theologian and Poet. Probably insane but had previously supported Republican President Garfield. Not a democrat.

Leon Czolgosc. An Anachist. Not a Democrat

Lee Harvey Oswald. High School dropout, Marine, Marxist and Traitor. Not a Democrat.

Robert B. Randolph. Dismissed from US Navy for embezzlement. Struck President Jackson and ran away. President Jackson refused to file a criminal complaint. Not a Democrat.

Pedro Albizu Campos. First Lieutenant in US Army, a Puerto Rican Nationalist and a member of the Puerto Rican Independence Party. Not a Democrat.

Lynette Fromme. A Charles Mason family member and drug addict. Had ties to Aryan Brotherhood. Not a democrat.

John Hinckley. Had a history of depression and found not guilty by reason of insanity. Hinckley family had ties to Bush family. Not a Democrat

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swac

Anarchist,Marxist, Traitor,Communist,Democrat - they are all just different terms for the same political philosophy.

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swac, kawfee

When it comes to protecting the way one makes a living I am afraid the radical right outshines the radical left by a considerable amount.

When there is absolutely nothing one side can do that is acceptable to the other side, the right certainly wins that honor.

Except for "crumbs" thrown on rare occasions, I heard O'Reilly today speak for 15 minutes or more about all of the sound bites he could find of the left saying something bad about the right, then in his last sentence he said that of course both sides sometimes go too far. That is all the credit he gave them. He backed Mr. Limbaugh in all aspects, and Limbaugh was also the only name he mentioned as "Mister!"

He said Sarah Palin was being falsely crucified, but he did not show one film or speech where she has said some really terrible things!

I have decided that gross amounts of money earned means you are always correct!

Please notice I put up no "targets," suggested no banning or blocking of the right, just showed the factual truth.

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Yawn
Joe Kawfi wrote:

Anarchist,Marxist, Traitor,Communist,Democrat - they are all just different terms for the same political philosophy.

Nice hate speech there, jackwagon. Didja get that from Hate Radio today or make it all up by yourself?

Your birth mother did the right thing, dumping you in the dumpster.

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Krispy

At least my mother didn't drop me on my head, over, and over, and over again as yours obviously did.

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Bacon, you're correct

You're correct here, this list is wrong headed.

However, Joe does have the correct notion that people that control our life through force of government is wrong.

I know that's not your position, the more government the better, right?

If not, where exactly do you draw the line?

Education to control our minds?
Health to control our bodies?
Property to control our incomes?

Where do you draw the line?

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Definitions

I can see why you get confused. You do not know or choose not to know the difference between Socialists, National Socialists, Marxists, Faschists and Democratic Socialists.

PTC Observer
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Swac - No

No I am not the one that is confused, each of the groups you mention have the idea that it is the state that has priority over individual freedom. A socialist by any flavor is a socialist.

Go read something meaningful today. Start with: "Socialism" by Ludwig von Mises. Then we'll talk.

PTC Observer
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Why Mr. Garvin

do you try to confuse the confused with facts?

They shall stay forever confused.

PTC Observer
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Interesting swac

It is interesting the many of these incidences are neo-Nazis, you do know what the Nazi stands for don't you? Do you think it means "right wing"?

Guess again.

swac
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Nazi

Neo-Nazi definition. Fascists or National Socialists.
For a look at American National Socialists go to- http://www.nsm88.org/.
Be afraid be very afraid

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swac - I don't

need to look at your link. You do know what a socialist is don't you?

One that worships the state, like progressives, or in some cases Democrats and Republicans.

If you want to be afraid consider those in your Congress, then be very afraid. It's the guys with the law that are more concerning than the deranged. The deranged have no idea what they are doing, the lawmakers, now that's a different story.

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I'm sorry but I can't take Palin for anything serious

The lasting image of Palin being graciously tolerated in her so called debate with Biden will always be clear in my mind.

He didn't debate her, he just let her make it the allotted time with minimum embarassement. Say what you will, Joe Biden will forever be classy in my mind for the way he handled it.

I will never forget the way she walked off stage. Like she was doing everything possible not to break and run.

She would never make a good president, vice or otherwise.

Armed with a gun with a good telosopic lens at several hundred yards safe distance against an unarmed polar bear she is Rambo.

Up against the real thing, she just can't pull it off. She will never ever be what a country in trouble needs.