She warned us . . .
Tuesday, January 4, 2011 - 5:32pm
Submitted by Cal Thomas
Submitted by Cal Thomas
Sarah Palin deserves an apology. When she said that the new healthcare law would lead to “death panels” deciding who gets life-saving treatment and who does not, she was roundly denounced and ridiculed.
Now we learn, courtesy of one of the ridiculers — The New York Times — that she was right. Under a new policy not included in the law for fear the administration’s real end-of-life game would be exposed, a rule issued by the recess-appointed Dr. Donald M. Berwick, administrator of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, calls for the government to pay doctors to advise patients on options for ending their lives. These could include directives to forgo aggressive treatment that could extend their lives.
This rule will inevitably lead to bureaucrats deciding who is “fit” to live and who is not. The effect this might have on public opinion, which by a solid majority opposes Obamacare, is clear from an email obtained by the Times.
It is from Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-Ore.), who sent it to people working with him on the issue. Oregon and Washington are the only states with assisted-suicide laws, a preview of what is to come at the federal level if this new regulation is allowed to stand.
Blumenauer wrote in his November email: “While we are very happy with the result, we won’t be shouting it from the rooftops because we aren’t out of the woods yet. This regulation could be modified or reversed, especially if Republican leaders try to use this small provision to perpetuate the ‘death panel’ myth.”
Ah, but it’s not a myth, and that’s where Palin nailed it. All inhumanities begin with small steps; otherwise the public might rebel against a policy that went straight to the “final solution.” All human life was once regarded as having value, because even government saw it as “endowed by our Creator.” This doctrine separates us from plants, microorganisms and animals.
Doctors once swore an oath, which reads in part: “I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion.” Did Dr. Berwick, a fan of rationed care and the British National Health Service, ever take that oath? If he did, it appears he no longer believes it.
Do you see where this leads? First the prohibition against abortion is removed and “doctors” now perform them. Then the assault on the infirm and elderly begins. Once the definition of human life changes, all human lives become potentially expendable if they don’t measure up to constantly “evolving” government standards.
It will all be dressed up with the best possible motives behind it and sold to the public as the ultimate benefit. The killings, uh, terminations, will take place out of sight so as not to disturb the masses who might have a few embers of a past morality still burning in their souls. People will sign documents testifying to their desire to die, and the government will see it as a means of “reducing the surplus population,” to quote Charles Dickens.
When life is seen as having ultimate value, individuals and their doctors can make decisions about treatment that are in the best interests of patients. But when government is looking to cut costs as the highest good and offers to pay doctors to tell patients during their annual visits that they can choose to end their lives rather than continue treatment, that is more than the proverbial camel’s nose under the tent. That is the next step on the way to physician-assisted suicide and, if not stopped, government-mandated euthanasia.
It can’t happen here? Based on what standard? Yes it can happen in America, and it will if the new Republican class in Congress doesn’t stop it.
[Cal Thomas is America’s most widely syndicated op-ed columnist, appearing in more than 600 national newspapers. He is the author of more than 10 books and is a FOX News political contributor since 1997. Email Cal Thomas at tmseditors@tribune.com.] ©2010 TRIBUNE MEDIA SERVICES, INC.
- Cal Thomas's blog
- Login or register to post comments
-
Sat, 01/08/2011 - 5:00pm
#92
Sarah Palin and her gunslinging buddies...
It looks like Sarah Palin got her wish, promoting her "gun-sight map" on her website to target which Democrats to get rid of. Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ) was shot in the head today at a political rally in Arizona.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_t6rV3U9ZEHM/S6t-vkvjefI/AAAAAAAAu60/qxMkG_NItK...
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 10:22am
#93
Daily Kos-"Dead to me"
http://hillbuzz.org/2011/01/08/my-congresswoman-voted-against-nancy-pelo...
Careful throwing stones when you live in a glass house.
Left calling for violence
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/chilling-video-openly-rooting-for-revolu...
Runs both ways there folks. This should not be used as a hammer against anyone.
btw-don't forget the democrats had a bullseye list as well and spoke often of going "behind enemy lines"
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 1:01pm
#94
violent right-wing rhetoric...
...seems to be a-okay with some of you on here. If so, you are part of the problem in this country, not part of the solution.
"If a Detroit Muslim put a map on the web with crosshairs on 20 pols, then 1 of them got shot, where would he be sitting right now? Just asking.
Weird: rightwingers say movies, video games affect behavior -- but real world violent rhetoric from leaders & radio talkers have NO impact!
I find it abhorrent that Sarah Palin would stoke the coals of extremism with dangerous messaging, then delete it when something bad happens.
Sure, Sarah Palin didn't pull the trigger. But then, neither did Charles Manson.
Christina Taylor Green was Born on September 11, 2001, and killed today by terrorist in Arizona. Irony much?
Sarah Palin rummages online frantically erasing her rabble-rousing Tweets like a Stalinist trimming non-persons out of photos.
I'll say this, if your first instinct after hearing about a tragedy is to scrub yr websites, you have a problem as a political movement.
CNN's Dana Bash says "this could be a wake-up call." THIS ... ? The whole Tea Party, carrying guns to rallies WASN'T??
Teapartiers have been asking for this to happen, and how they're pissed off that we're calling them out on it.
STOP SAYING"BOTH PARTIES"!! The Left has not been advocating Violence."
Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:34am
#95
Main -
The only physical attacks that occurred at Tea Party rallies were by Leftists on Conservatives. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:24am
#96
A QUOTE FROM THE MEDIA
An atmosphere of personal hatred can breed hate, so it is encouraging to see lawmakers this week pull together and hit the pause button on attacking each other personally. Debate should be vigorous, but aimed at ideas and actions, not demonizing people.
Maybe we can initiate this on the blogs?
Tue, 01/11/2011 - 4:31pm
#97
"... should be put against the wall and shot."
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 1:29pm
#98
Main
STOP SAYING"BOTH PARTIES"!! The Left has not been advocating Violence."
I suppose Bill Ayers slipped your mind.
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 3:10pm
#99
Ayers
Bill Ayers is not a leader in the Democratic party. He is a discredited radical Christian preacher.
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 4:36pm
#100
You've mistaken Ayers for
You've mistaken Ayers for Jeremiah Wright. The Weather Underground did indeed kill people. Ayers was part of that.
Both sides of our political dichotomy have a long history of having nutters capable of violence within their ranks. Ever see the movie Gangs of New York? That's closer to the reality most Americans knew throughout our history than whatever reality you currently know.
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 1:49pm
#101
Mike, the conversation is focusing on THIS century...
...and the current political climate that has caused this unstable creature, Loughner, to put a bullet in the head of a congresswoman.
"Don't retreat, reload!" - Sarah Palin
"If this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies." - Sharron Angle, former member of the Nevada State Assembly
"If ballots don't work, bullets will." - Joyce Kaufman, Radio host, Tea Party activist
"I want people in Minnesota armed and dangerous . . . The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Congresswoman from Minnesota Michele Bachmann, leader of the Tea Party Caucus, paraphrasing Thomas Jefferson
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 2:01pm
#102
Main...
Nice try, but your reference to Manson sort of 'shoots' your analogy in the foot.
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 2:40pm
#103
Mike...violent rhetoric
here's some updated right-wing "rhetoric" for you:
"Armed with handguns and AK-47 and AR-15 assault rifles, the members of the Southeast Broward Republican Club abandoned the usual community center for their club meeting this week, and gathered at a gun range where they fired bullets instead of political bombshells...One of the shooters at the Tuesday evening event was Robert Lowry, a Republican candidate hoping to unseat U.S. Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, D-Weston. Lowry's target had the letters "DWS" next to the silhouette head."
http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2009-10-08/news/sfl-republicans-guns-po...
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 3:54pm
#104
Main...
For every violence spewing article you produce from the right, I can easily do from the left. Google, Yahoo, etc
So, just answer the question, Does the 'spew' only come from the left, or does it come from both sides?
Tue, 01/11/2011 - 7:31am
#105
One would think.....
......that four hydrogen bombs had been dropped on the four corners of the USA.
Congress quit their business and huddled, all TV speaks of nothing else except a fruitcake and the weather, and sure enough the 2012 prophecy has started, according to some.
Whenever 1 in 10 people (actually 25%) are unemployed, everything bad that happens, such as a public shooting spree,it is taken as the end of the country---at least the government.
If that were the case, the middle-east would have been gone for 7000 years!
What we now have to recognize as a citizenry is that the days of living on credit and government pensions and welfare is over!
We lived on 14 trillion dollars for 10-15 years and now we can't pay it back except for the interest.
We have abandoned our aged and young as being burdens. I dread their adulthood.
We will certainly survive, barring disease and starvation, due to our natural resources and island nature, and the fact that others would consider us unmanageable. (just as is Iraq, etc).
We went way overboard with 9/11 reaction, Iraq, Afghanistan, and financial matters, and now one incident in the wild west, although pitiful, has stopped our wheels from rolling--temporarily I hope,
Just how many nuts (not counting radical Muslims) are out there that would force our congress to sit still?
I suppose now we will overreact and hire 30-40 guards each for about 7-800 government "servants?"
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 4:27pm
#106
Mike, I hear more "spew" from the right...
Keep holding on tight to those "conservative" values, Mike:
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?oe=UTF8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&source=e...
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 4:25pm
#107
Mike King, Absolutes
For every violence spewing article you produce from the right, I can easily do from the left. Google, Yahoo, etc
So, just answer the question, Does the 'spew' only come from the left, or does it come from both sides?
Mike, outside of a math classroom, I've found that mostly zealots deal in absolutes ("always", "never", "all", "none", "only", etc).
Answering your "only" question, the answer of course in no, spew DOES come from both left and right.
Having said that, though, I am of the belief that the AMOUNT of spew from the right dwarfs the pitiful amount from the left. I'd venture to say that at least 75% and upwards to 90% of the hate spew originates from the right. You'll recall Hate Radio exists to feed the right wing hatebeast (Air America folded, remember?) and the Right has a dedicated TV outlet of hatred in the Fox News Network.
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 6:29pm
#108
Chrispy
Now, at least, we understand that this 'hate' eminates from both sides. I certainly will not take the time to count the number of left or right blogs, talking points, etc. I will admit, however, that there are those anal enough to do just that with the belief that it proves their side right. These are of the ilk that believe they can discolor the ocean merely by pissing in it.
Look forward to further discourse, but for now I'm going back to my book (and the fire). Say hello to Main for me.
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 1:41pm
#109
Mike King delivers a thunderous HIPPIE PUNCH!
STOP SAYING"BOTH PARTIES"!! The Left has not been advocating Violence."
I suppose Bill Ayers slipped your mind.
(Edward R. Murrow voice)
"When cornered, a proper conservative verbal duelist will often retreat to the comfort of the late 1960s, which will afford him/her the opportunity to deliver the dreaded HIPPIE PUNCH!, once again castigating Democrats for sins (both real and imagined) that occurred well over two generations ago or to smugly remind us of Republican accomplishments (such as civil rights legislation) that the current Republican party has long since refudiated."
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 2:10pm
#110
Now Chrispy....
The Bill Ayers reference was to make a point. Would you rather I compared surveyor points to actual targets on a map? Had I done so, the point would've been lost on some.
I guess my hippie roots are beginning to show.
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 2:18pm
#111
Hippie Roots?
Mike, I think most of SDS is working in the White House now! http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/09/barack_obama_and_the_strategy.html -GP
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 4:09pm
#112
Who is Bill Ayers? Who was he?
Can activists/revolutionaries work for our best interest?
William Charles "Bill" Ayers (born December 26, 1944)[1] is an American elementary education theorist and a former leader in the movement that opposed U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War. He is known for his 1960s activism as well as his current work in education reform, curriculum, and instruction. In 1969 he co-founded the Weather Underground, a self-described communist revolutionary group[2] that conducted a campaign of bombing public buildings during the 1960s and 1970s, motivated by U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War. He is a retired professor in the College of Education at the University of Illinois at Chicago, formerly holding the titles of Distinguished Professor of Education and Senior University Scholar.[3] During the 2008 Presidential campaign, a controversy arose over his contacts with candidate Barack Obama. He is married to Bernardine Dohrn, who was a leader in the Weather organization.
Ronald Reagan, George Washington, Martin Luther King, etc., etc., etc. Haldeman, John Lewis, Charlene Hunter-Gault, Robert E. Lee, - IMO - many have. Some of the persons I have listed have been 'jailed' for their beliefs and/or acts; some have been called communists, socialists, anarchists, etc. - but history shows that they have all contributed to our country. Bill Ayers is not working in the White House. Dick Cheney and Rumsfeld were - and are now considered war criminals in some countries.
The continued effort to denigrate those who disagree with your principles/ideas is noted. Let's move on.
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 5:05pm
#113
DM - Mr. Ayers
Mr. Ayers seems to have mellowed in his old age, he has found that it is much more profitable being part of the "establishment". This is especially so when you have the ear of a President. It is nice to have someone of your political persuasion in the White House, right DM?
Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:11am
#114
PTC
This is especially so when you have the ear of a President. It is nice to have someone of your political persuasion in the White House, right DM?
Isn't that what our elections are all about?
Wed, 01/12/2011 - 10:37pm
#115
DM - Yes
Yes, it is.....remember this in 2012. ;-)
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 4:26pm
#116
He also was the ghost writer of Prezbo's book
Audacity of Hope I believe it was called. Wonder if he got some of the royalties. Follow the money.
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 3:59pm
#119
Actually, GP....
I don't believe that anyone employed politically at the White House remembers first hand very much about the Viet Nam War, which by the way, was the primary reason this movement began.
I could be wrong.
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 5:34pm
#120
You're right
I will try to be more specific from now on when I mention Obama's connection to radicals . http://theundergroundconservative.wordpress.com/2009/09/03/obamas-radica... -GP
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 2:37pm
#121
I challenge you to name ONE.
I challenge you to name ONE SINGLE member...or former member... of the SDS currently working for the White House in ANY capacity.
Your comment is a PRIME example of your "say/do anything to delegitimize the Obama administration" mentality.
Tue, 01/11/2011 - 1:12am
#122
SDS
Wade Radthke, former SDS member, founded ACORN and SEIU. Andy Stern, another SDS member and former president of SEIU and is on President Obama’s Fiscal Responsibility Commission. Jeff Jones, former SDS member, is now a member of the Apollo Alliance and helped write the stimulus bill. Then, of course, there is the president's "spiritual adviser," Jim Wallis, another former SDS member.
SDS merged with several other commie organizations and formed MDS http://newzeal.blogspot.com/2008/09/obama-file-33-more-weathermen-for-ob... Jeff Jones is on the board at MDS and still works with SDS, http://newzeal.blogspot.com/2008/09/obama-file-33-more-weathermen-for-ob... he is also a member of the Apollo Alliance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Alliance which is funded by George Soros Tides Foundation and wrote the stimulas bill http://www.newsrealblog.com/2009/08/27/pro-obama-apollo-alliance-advised... It is really quite an easy job to find out the truth about Obama's radical ties, anyone willing to do a little research can easily see them. And check out the last name on this list http://www.fiscalcommission.gov/members none other than Andy Stern who visited Obama 22 times. Yes Bacon, Obama's radical ties run deep. -GP
Tue, 01/11/2011 - 1:48am
#123
Forget it GP Bacon lives in an alternate reality
No matter how much evidence you share he will just ignore all of it, claim you never gave it and then say you are lying.
It is easier to debate with CHR or lion then it is with bacon.
Tue, 01/11/2011 - 1:37am
#124
Still waiting, GP
Lotsa cut and paste....no answers though.
You've shown us various people campaigning for Obama.
That's not what I challenged you to provide.
Show me ONE current or former SDS member working for the White House in any capacity
Harder job than you thought it was, hmmmm?
You know, you could just admit you were in error.
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 11:59pm
#125
You challenged to name one-I give you three
Andy Stern, former SDS member and former president of SEIU and is on President Obama’s Fiscal Responsibility Commission. Jeff Jones, former SDS member, is now a member of the Apollo Alliance and helped write the stimulus bill. The president’s "spiritual adviser," Jim Wallis, another former SDS member.
All in the Whitehouse or working with the Whitehouse either on a Commission or as a advisor.
Next!
Tue, 01/11/2011 - 12:14am
#126
Please provide links
Neither Stern's or Wallis' wikipedia entries document your SDS claims.
Jeff Jones' wikipedia entry indicates a lengthy involvement with SDS but also states he has been employed by Apollo Alliance for years. Please document his alleged White house employment.
Please provide links to document your claims.
Tue, 01/11/2011 - 12:21am
#127
Do a little work it is well documented
each and everyone is a former SDS member and each and everyone has ties to Obama.
Tue, 01/11/2011 - 12:29am
#128
Just as I thought, you can't document your claim.
each and everyone is a former SDS member and each and everyone has ties to Obama.
Just as I thought, you can't document your claim.
You can't provide any proof that any of the three people you named is working in the White House.
You just made stuff up.
Again.
LIAR
Tue, 01/11/2011 - 12:42am
#129
Bacon you are a useless twit
but a useful fool.
Anyone with a laptop can google the info and get thousands of hits so here you just proved yourself to be what we all know you to be pure bovine excrement.
Like I said before you don't want a debate you want to argue. Even when we show you that you are wrong you run behind insults and bully tactics.
You can't provide any proof that any of the three people you named is working in the White House.
You just made stuff up.
Again.
LIAR
Stern is on Obama's Fiscal Commission for crying out loud dufus.
Here let me help you with something you are not used to using FACTS:
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/10/andy-stern-says-fiscal-commis...
"Former SEIU President Andy Stern, who sits on President Obama's fiscal commission, says he will not endorse the panel's final recommendations if they are dominated by Republican ideas."
Jim Wallis is Obama's Spritual advisor:
http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=about_us.display_staff&staff=Wallis
"Jim Wallis is a bestselling author, public theologian, speaker, and international commentator on ethics and public life. He been named to serve on the White House Advisory Council on Faith-based and Neighborhood Partnerships. "
Tue, 01/11/2011 - 12:48am
#130
One down, two to go
Okay, so you've backed off your claim for Jones. One down, two to go.
As I indicated in my previous post, please document Stern and Wallis' alleged SDS involvement.
Until then, we'll assume you're lying again.
Tue, 01/11/2011 - 12:54am
#131
Bacon once again I proved you wrong
and once again you simply keep throwing mud.
Should have known better then actually think you might acknowledge your mistake.
http://www.thecitizen.com/node/5259#comment-20587
See comment #12
Tue, 01/11/2011 - 1:03am
#132
Once again: Show us the SDS involvement
Trying to bluster your way out of a corner again?
Got caught in a lie again? Sure seems that way!
SHOW US THE SDS INVOLVEMENT FOR STERN AND WALLIS
Here's your big chance to make a liar out of me!
Just show me a legit source documenting the SDS involvement for Stern and Wallis!
How hard is that?
*I* couldn't find any site documenting their SDS membership......I suspect YOU couldn't either!
Let's review: The challenge was to provide the name of an ex-SDS (or current SDS) member working in the White House.
YOU'VE FAILED TO DO SO
You supplied three random names, NONE of whom seem to have any connection to SDS.
SHOW US THE SDS INVOLVEMENT
Tue, 01/11/2011 - 1:43am
#133
And lastly show me where they say there never were
part of SDS. Google it-find it-prove it bacon-You can't and never will.
I could give dozens of links you would simply find or invent something to discount it.
Wallis lead the militant Students for a Democratic Society, at Michigan State University.
Stern was trained in the tactics of radical activism at the Midwest Academy. This was formed by former Students for a Democratic Society members Paul and Heather Booth, Sterns became a prominent member of SDS.
These tidbits might help you on your quest.
Tue, 01/11/2011 - 2:05am
#134
Still waiting, ObserverofU
Still blustering, eh?
Now you want me to prove a negative, the epitome of logical fallacy.
Jim Wallis has a full-time job as the publisher of Sojourners magazine. No "White House position" that I could find. "spiritual advisor" is not a White House position.
Andrew Stern had some friends in the SDS.....I didn't ask for people who had friends in the SDS. Show me Stern's SDS involvement. In any event, Stern serves in an unpaid capacity on a Presidential commission...not the same as a "White House position"
Keep trying...or perhaps I should say... Keep LYING
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 6:54pm
#135
William Ayers and Obama
What I find interesting is that it was the Hillary Clinton's camp in "08 that tried to make an issue of the President's association with William Ayers. Oh well, things move on.
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 12:31pm
#136
Maps vs. Cross Hairs
Targeting positions on a map with a 'bulls-eye' - and making a statement to 'reload' and putting the 'targets' in cross hairs are very different. I think all agree that rhetoric that glorifies violence is dangerous. It should be used as a 'hammer' against all who resort to this type of 'rhetoric'. No one who resorts to this is 'innocent' or 'acceptable'.
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 4:42pm
#137
I agree the crosshair map was
I agree the crosshair map was a poor choice, but that sort of rhetoric has been part of our political discourse from the very start. One only has to think back to 2008 to remember a certain Illinois Senator and would be Presidential candidate saying something along the lines of "if they bring a knife, we'll bring a gun".
(and I've included a link to source the reference: http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0608/Obama_brings_a_gun_to_a_knif...)
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 1:00pm
#138
DM - Double Standard
Finding the "very different" meaning between the symbology of "bullseye targets" and "crosshairs on the map"...
Give us a break....
Rhetoric is rhetoric...
Political or otherwise...
And the freedom thereto guaranteed..
And bullets are bullets...
And the right to keep and bear arms is also guaranteed..
Like it or not...
The committed choice and acting-out of the perpetrator...
-- is the bottom line to this equation
His decision to break the law and acting to take lives..
--THAT--
...will be the work of a court of law and a jury...
words -vs- bullets fired
symbols -vs- violent action
political debate -vs- premeditated murder...
THERE'S THE "VERY DIFFERENT" DEFINITIONS...
**************
DM --
Do you want to see something "very different"??
PLEASE NOTE --
The very hot lib / MSM "free speech" and "2nd Amendment" fever over this tragic turn of events....
---QUITE THE CONTRAST---
To the "official gubmint response"...
as well as the MSM and lib-blog reaction to the Fort Hood massacre...
"Let's not jump to conclusions.... about Major Hasan"
"There shouldn't be a rush to judgment"
(Lemme see... committed to an historically violent belief system...
---pupil of a known violent imam - al Awlaki....
Lemme think some more.... no rush to judgment here!)
Road apples... by the truckload...
...In staggering proportions...
So typical libs...
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 1:05pm
#139
scribbler
Thank you for your input.
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 1:08pm
#140
DM...
Thank you for your input.
Nice punt...
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 1:32pm
#141
Scribbler - as I said
and making a statement to 'reload' and putting the 'targets' in cross hairs are very different. I think all agree that rhetoric that glorifies violence is dangerous. It should be used as a 'hammer' against all who resort to this type of 'rhetoric'. No one who resorts to this is 'innocent' or 'acceptable'.
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 3:30pm
#142
DM.... slippery slope ahead
I think all agree that rhetoric that glorifies violence is dangerous.
We don't "all agree"...
...bad assumption...
Don't be confused....
"Danger" is not in the lawful expression or speech---
Actual danger is on the wrong end of a weapon in the hands of the committed and intentional criminal-- or the deranged...
The only "danger" around here are the lefty zealots...
...who prefer to silence those who disagree with them...
Sooo.... short of repealing the First Amendment ...????
Hmmm....
I am genuinely intrigued by your position because you seem to prefer the taking of the rights of others.
How would you recommend establishing your preferred "rhetoric standards"?!?!?!
************
How would you propose to "enforce" your recommended standards---????
It should be used as a 'hammer' against all who resort to this type of 'rhetoric'.
Isn't using a hammer against someone -- an act of violence...??
--OR--
...Were you speaking "rhetorically"...
...You know... in metaphors and symbols--
...Like the respective political campaigns with those bullseye/crosshairs maps??
No one who resorts to this is 'innocent' or 'acceptable'.
Does your reasoning and your standards for "innocent" and "acceptable" likewise apply to the Great Liberal Hero Barack Hussein Obama??
“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,”
....Obama said at a fundraiser in Philadelphia Friday (6/13/2008)
Your contention/proposal ascribing "guilt-by-association" on the basis of free expression---
--pretty slippery slope... um hmmm....
As you stood by your previous statements.... likewise do I regarding the typical lib "double standard":
Road apples... by the truckload...
...In staggering proportions...
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 4:39pm
#143
Free Speech rights are NOT "absolute"
I think all agree that rhetoric that glorifies violence is dangerous.
We don't "all agree"......bad assumption...
Don't be confused....
"Danger" is not in the lawful expression or speech---
Actual danger is on the wrong end of a weapon in the hands of the committed and intentional criminal-- or the deranged...
The only "danger" around here are the lefty zealots...
...who prefer to silence those who disagree with them...
Sooo.... short of repealing the First Amendment ...????
Hmmm....
I am genuinely intrigued by your position because you seem to prefer the taking of the rights of others.
How would you recommend establishing your preferred "rhetoric standards"?!?!?!
How would you propose to "enforce" your recommended standards---????
Did you not get enough oxygen at birth? That might explain a few things.
Had you attended an accredited high school, you might have learned that the standard already exists, and it has existed since 1919. The Supreme Court ruled that the First Amendment right to free speech was NOT absolute, and Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes gave the famous example of falsely yelling "FIRE" in a crowded theater.
The standard was modified later in 1969 to limit restrictions on free speech to the legal standard of "imminent lawless action" (inciting a riot). If the old standard was still in force, it could be argued that the entire staff of Fox News might be in prison today.
Perhaps next time you'll do a little research before shooting off your mouth.
I somehow doubt you will, though.
Jackwagon
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 7:16pm
#144
BACON ALL INSULTS - NO ANSWERS
Pardon the citation of facts...
Don't let them get in the way of your magnificent self-affirmed intellectual superiority...
There are also many cases affirming COMPLETE PROTECTIONS of the 1st Amendment's guarantee of free speech and expression...
Most of those cases arose due to EXTRAORDINARILY OFFENSIVE means or content....
-- Burning the American flag...
-- The "artistic" picture of the "P*ss Christ"
-- Krishna disciples handing out leaflets, books amd flowers in the airport....
--The perverted contents of Hustler magazine...
Tempers and rhetoric were at an all time-high...
Yet the SCOTUS affirmed...
--- that even what was OFFENSIVE...
--Remained free and protected...
Kinda like yourself...
MARVELOUS CONTEMPORARY EXAMPLE:
"If they bring a knife to the fight--- we bring a gun"
--Barack Hussein Obama -- Philadelphia PA -- Friday the 13th (6/13/08)
Where were your gallant protestations and high-horse insults when your hero was shooting off his mouth??
Ummm hmmm...
(thought so...)
jerkweed...
jigwater...
jinx-box...
jack-whatever...
I had to look it up....
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jackwaggon
ENJOY!
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 4:44pm
#145
Bacon - question for you
What is a "Jackwagon"? Is it not a insult that is familar to me.
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 4:54pm
#146
Terms of endearment
What is a "Jackwagon"? Is it not a insult that is familar to me.
It's a term of endearment recently popularized in Geico commercials.
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=421471697217
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 5:08pm
#147
I see now
popular culture, LOL.
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 3:56pm
#148
Scribbler - in face of tragedy
the first response by good intentioned people in times like these is to take rights away from millions of fellow citizens. However, this is not just the left; the right is guilty of the same thing. Consider the Patriot Act and it's infringement of many of the Bill of Rights that this Act turns over to the bureaucracy. Consider the 1982 Property Forfeiture Law that can take your property without due process and passed under President Reagan. And a recent example for the other side is the Affordable Health Care Act of 2010 under President Obama which forces people to buy something they may not want. There are many, many more laws that degrade our ability to act as free individuals in a free society. The control by the state over our lives continues and it our acquiescence to this control that will enslave us.
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 7:34pm
#149
PTCO - Roger that....
Your recap is appreciated-- and the aftermath and abuses of each of those "well-intentioned" infringements also remain well documented...
Each and all of your citations provide excellent motivation to stand our Constitutional ground and protect our rights from any further erosion by the "well-intentioned"-- or the greedy politicians /bureaucrats--- and especially the silly-socialist left...
Regards...
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 3:49pm
#150
scibbler
Thanks for sharing your opinion
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 12:37pm
#151
It's a "surveyor's symbol", David's Mom!
Sarah Palin's PR rep was on the news yesterday explaining it twern't a "bullseye", it was a "surveyor's mark".
Dontcha know.... *rolleyes*
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 12:49pm
#152
Bacon
That PR person should be fired! This is a time for creative silence from the Palin camp. What a lesson - critique carefully words that are used that could be envisioned as supporting violence. Do surveyors 'reload'? (However - it's great that we learned this BEFORE this individual became a leader of all 50 states!!!) Whew!
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 1:12pm
#153
DM - It won't
happen. Palin does not represent the vast majority of people that want a reform and downsizing of government. She is an entertainer, nothing more.
She left her future politicial ambitions back in Alaska when she resigned the governership.
She has co-opted the TP but even the TP doesn't truely reflect the determination of many more to downsize the government. It's going to happen because we are broke, it is just that simple.
The democrats are living in a dream world, thinking things were like they were in the 1950's. It's over, gone, through....
Sarah Palin will lose if she runs, even to Obama and everyone knows this. She doesn't have a chance in the Republican party and if she splits the party, Obama will win. Sarah is the best thing to ever happen to Obama for his future chances.
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 1:28pm
#154
PTC Observer
The democrats are living in a dream world, thinking things were like they were in the 1950's. It's over, gone, through....
I don't think the Democrat's are in a dream world. All thinking Americans want to tackle the deficit put Americans back to work, etc. The disagreement is the method of achieving this. Our enemies want to see us weakened and divided. Let's work together - and defeat the desire of our enemies.
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 1:34pm
#155
DM - I couldn't agree more
but let's not sacrifice principle in the effort.
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 10:56am
#156
Ah, the familiar stench of "both sides do it"
I knew it was only a matter of time before one of the fringe elements here would bring up the tired "both sides do it" false equivalency, and to the surprise of virtually nobody it's the most truth-challenged member of this site doing the honors this morning.
Violent, overblown, apocalyptic, and, most importantly, false rhetoric is a much bigger problem on the right than the left.
Genteel folks are all afraid to say that because they know the Observerofus of the world will squeal like a teakettle if anyone even suggests it.
Folks, if your first reaction is that "both sides share equal blame", I urge you to listen to or read some Coulter, Malkin, Boortz, Limbaugh, Beck, et al and ask yourself who you think you are kidding.
Better yet, read The Eliminationists (a great expose on how Hate Radio radicalized the Right Wing) and get back to us with some equivalent examples of "leftists" engaging in similar rhetoric.
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 11:19am
#157
Neal Boortz has a hissy fit on CNN
Hatemonger Neal Boortz has a hissy fit on CNN
How dare that Arizona sheriff say something bad about hate radio! He must be a...a leftist! And a partisan! And a hack!
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 11:32am
#158
Neal Boortz - Bacon
Is an entertainer. If he wasn't entertaining no one would listen to him.
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 4:45pm
#159
Boortz is a dick, and not so
Boortz is a dick, and not so entertaining.
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 1:05pm
#160
The "just an entertainer" excuse
I've decided I'm no longer going to accept "just an entertainer" as an excuse. After watching Palin's PR flack offer up that same bromide yesterday, it sickens me.
Boortz and Palin's "entertainment" is sickening. They've got a right to speak their mind and spew their vitriol to their adoring public, but Americans should stand up and get in their faces and say "What in the HELL are you talking about?" when Palin regurgitates her "Don't Retreat.. RELOAD" spew and puts targets on the names of individual Congressmen.
When they babble about "second amendment remedies", we as a country need to say "Whoa! What the HELL is wrong with this person".
We as a country have gotten rather immune to the constant spew of hatred from the right...it's taken the shooting of a member of Congress to jar our sensibilities out of complacency.
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 1:31pm
#161
OK Bacon
Americans should stand up and get in their faces...
Here's Boortz's phone number 404.872.0750. Let us know when you call so we can all listen.
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 1:26pm
#162
Good Morning Chrispy....
...Hope that you're staying warm. Like you I'm a growing a bit tired of this political 'entertainment' bovine excrement.
Whether it's O'Reilly or Matthews, Boortz or Behar, Hannity or Stewart, or even Limbaugh or Couric-they each make a great living preying upon the intellectual deficit of those who follow their every syllable. Most Americans have forfeited the right of original thought and find themselves mindlessly following their leaders much like the followers of Jim Jones.
Does one really believe that there is an ounce of difference between the likes of Reid or McConnell in the US Senate? Simply two old aged men addicted to their positions of influence and prestige to have a modicum of decency to step down when both know they only serve themselves.
I agree that we as a country have become callous to the spew of hatred, but from both sides not just one. It is unfortunate about the Congresswoman from Arizona, especially since she embraced ideals from both sides of the aisle.
What say you?
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 1:46pm
#163
Good morning, Mike
I agree with your post.
I'd like to ask your opinion on something, if you don't mind:
When you first heard about the Congresswoman getting shot, were you completely surprised? Or were you, at some level, expecting something like this to happen?
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 2:08pm
#164
Chris
I'm not at the least surprised, and really expected it for some time. My reasoning is the approval rates of the US Congress over the last decade.
My worry now is that the representatives of the people are to become more isolated from those they represent. It will be a typical over reaction due mainly to self importance.
How accessable is Lynn Westmoreland, really?
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 1:16pm
#165
Bacon - you
don't have to accept it, but it's a fact.
Palin's poll ratings should fall to about her IQ this week.
What are you worried about, she's toast anyway. And as I just said to DM, she is the best thing ever for your man Mr. Obama, if she runs.
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 12:33pm
#166
Boortz will tell you that VERY quick..
and he'll also say his show is a LOT of BS. He's proud of it. To me his show was a lot better when he was just local in the Atlanta area. Who was the Atlanta Mayor he went off on all the time? Good stuff.
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 12:50pm
#167
Agree on Boortz. Relevance is fading
He was much better before syndication.
I think he's really a city host - nationally he's in over his head.
Bill Campbell was the mayor that used to drive Boortz nuts and judging from his Olympic performance and jail term, Campbell was a real loser - sort of the Steve Brown of Atlanta.
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 12:45pm
#168
Spy & Boortz
Agree with your comment. The Mayor was Bill Campbell I think. IMO Boortz has become much more crude and is incessant on nserting some sort ofsexual innuendo into most every conversation/discussion. But one can hardly argue with his success.
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 11:14am
#169
Observer-
Remember - According to Liberals, "hate" can be defined as any speech that opposes Liberal ideology. And if you oppose Obama's agenda, you are not only a "hater", but also a racist.
Liberals and the left-wing media are incapable of hate and their rhetoric speaks only truth. Only conservatives are capable of hate.
Here endeth the lesson.
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 1:30pm
#170
Joe - I know
hate when I see it and there is plenty of it right here on this board.
It is much better to have a calm reasoned argument on ideas and philosophy. The problem with the left is their ideas are based on dishonest premises. They can't defend the indefensible. The problem with the right is that they are right..... ;-) But most don't know why they are right and they can't express themselves very well.
For the right to win the day, less rancor and more reason is needed. Let the left use hyperbole and idealism, it's the only weapons they have against reason. Unless of course they control the government, then they have force.
We can take care of that at the polls.
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 12:42pm
#171
Joe Kawfi
After reading the comments of identified conservatives on this and many other 'blogs' - you do not represent the 'conservative' thought in this country.
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 10:13pm
#172
DM
I never claimed to represent conservative thought in America and really don't give a rodents posterior as to what insignificant old hags like yourself think.
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 12:21pm
#173
Definition of 'hate'
I think the rhetoric from both sides fit this definition.
hate
verb, hat·ed, hat·ing, noun
–verb (used with object)
1.
to dislike intensely or passionately; feel extreme aversion for or extreme hostility toward; detest: to hate the enemy; to hate bigotry.
2.
to be unwilling; dislike: I hate to do it.
–verb (used without object)
3.
to feel intense dislike, or extreme aversion or hostility.
–noun
4.
intense dislike; extreme aversion or hostility.
5.
the object of extreme aversion or hostility
The advice to tone down the rhetoric should be followed after this tragedy.
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 12:39pm
#174
Yea DM, I hate the left-wing pothead for what he did
Seems the whackjobs on the far left actually hate the blue dogs for not being liberal enough.
And the media hates conservatives just for existing.
Not to mention the government hating talk radio.
So much hate. Where does it come from?
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 1:18pm
#175
RW
So much hate. Where does it come from?
Check the history of our country. We've come a long way - but the remnants of the past still exist and unscrupulous individuals use this residue to insight others. (The term 'left-wing whacko' doesn't help the 'hate' rhetoric) Don't be part of the problem.
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 1:53pm
#176
DM - left wing whackos is not what I said
His classmate called him a left-wing pothead.
I said "whackos on the far left" and that is what I meant. I am honest enough to acknowledge that there are probably as many whackos on the far right as there are on the far left and there are probably some whackos in the political middle as well.
To state the obvious, the problem is not with either side of the political spectrum, instead the problem is the whackos themselves and what they are capable of doing. That's why both parties would be more appealing to real Americans if they could cleanse their party of their respective whackos since regular people don't want to be associated extreme left wingers or extreme right wingers.
And I know I'm treading on thin ice with you here, but not everything and every event and every news story is not about race or politics. nor should this one be. After all the Republican appointed federal judge is dead, the blue dog Democrat Congresswoman is seriously wounded, but alive.
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 2:25pm
#177
Mr. Morgan - So
I guess what you are saying is that "whacko" is an equal opportunity thing?
Meaning that just about anyone of any political persuasion can be "whacko" (mad)?
If so, I couldn't agree more but it is the ones that aren't mad that I worry about. Hitler certainly was not mad; he was an idealistic intellectual socialist.
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 2:10pm
#178
Yup - that's what you said
"whackos on the far left"
This is about politics - and individuals’ perception of what is right and/or wrong with rhetoric. The entire country is in shock because of an unbalanced persons response to unnecessary rhetoric in expressing our agreement or disagreement with certain positions. You're not on thin ice with me - but to deny that this is not about politics is disingenuous at least. Come on RW - we need to understand that the ugliness in our rhetoric is not necessary - and we need to clean it up. The whackos don't have this responsibility.
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 2:20pm
#179
question for davids mom
How do you know that the action was in response to unnecessary rhetoric in expressing our agreement or disagreement whith certain positions? Do you know this individual personally? If not, were you able to read his mind prior to him comitting these atrocities?
Mon, 01/10/2011 - 12:55pm
#180
"left wing pothead"?
"left wing pothead"?
Lets review the shooter's bonafides:
1. Gun owner
2. Registered Republican
3. Anti-government
4. Goldbug / Federal Reserve hater
5. Called abortion "baby terrorism"
6. Lists Ayn Rand's We The Living as a favorite book
7. Shot one of the few Democrats in a Republican state
Yup, definitely a left winger...
yep he wiped the floor with her.
Such a class act always says what he means never a flub.