Good intentions and the law

Cal Beverly's picture

UPDATED OPINION — I filed an Open Records request to Peachtree City Monday afternoon of this week, asking them to produce for inspection all records and documents related to something called “Project Z.”

The city Thursday evening turned over a document that names the local company receiving our local tax money. It was not among the ones guessed by our online commenters.

If, however, you guessed it is a subsidiary of a large manufacturing company headquartered in mainland China, you win the golden fortune cookie. More below.

The City Council met in a special called morning session last week with just one item on the agenda. It was to “offer a job creation grant for the ‘Project Z’ expansion in the Peachtree City Industrial Park, according to the minutes of that meeting. The vote in the two-minute meeting was 4-to-0 in favor of the grant.

No amount was given on the official minutes. But our reporter John Munford in his online story last week detailed what happened:

“A large existing Peachtree City company is gearing up to expand with a number of high-paying jobs, and the city council Thursday approved offering a grant of up to $50,000 in return.

“The company’s name has not been released, but is expected to be made public in the next week or two, according to Brandt Herndon, CEO of the Fayette County Development Authority.

“The city grant will provide a $500 per job credit for each job created which has a base salary of at least $80,000 per year.

“Those jobs should provide a shot in the arm to the city’s higher-end housing market, Herndon noted after the council meeting.

“The resolution adopted unanimously by council also indicates that a physical building expansion of the unnamed company is part of the expansion. Which means the city will be reaping the property tax benefits from the expansion as well.

“Under the resolution passed by council, the grant will be provided after the city’s finance department confirms the terms have been met.

“It was also noted that the company which is expanding is also getting incentives from the Peachtree City Airport Authority,” Munford wrote.

What the story didn’t say but I guess is understood is that the so-called grant money is coming out of the city’s general fund, the one us taxpayers get billed for every year.

So the “grant” is your tax money and my tax money being given by government to a private company to ... what ...? Entice them to do what they intend to do anyway as good business practice to make a profit?

But, one might argue, in these desperate economic times, government partnering with private business to create jobs is not only a good thing, but a vital economic necessity. So what if the city is keeping the name of the company secret? Who does it hurt? Besides, everybody here is acting with good intentions to achieve a good outcome for the community.

Enter the Grinch, who has some counter-arguments about both the secrecy of the local government dispersal of public money and the philosophy driving this seemingly “good intention” by our elected representatives, the keepers of the public purse.

First, what state law authorizes the council to obligate itself to spend public tax money without naming the entity receiving the public money?

Turns out that no state law allows the city to withhold documents about this “Project Z.” In fact, the state Open Records law requires the city to release all such documents related to this “grant.”

The city has said it will release one document that just happens to contain the name of the recipient of this public funding, but it is taking the full statutorily allowed three days before doing so.

By the way, Peachtree City has in the past decade an exemplary record of openness and quick response to open records request. This marks the first time the city has deliberately dragged its feet, to my knowledge.

Only one document is available, I’m told, because the city has in the past few days suffered an email server breakdown and other documents are not currently available. For the conspiracy theorists out there, rest easy. The email breakdown occurred well before my request, so there’s no connection here.

I’m also told that the request for secrecy came from the state and that the city was simply acceding to the state’s request that the company’s name be kept secret.

A county development official assured our reporter that the company’s name will eventually be released ... when the company decides they want it released.

Sorry, that assurance doesn’t cut it. In other words, good intentions must give way to controlling state law.

So, despite the state and the county and the city and — presumably — the private company wanting to keep this secret, I filed an official request to open up the process and let some sunshine in.

I see that as my job — to let the public know in a timely fashion where their tax money is being spent and by whom. I admit to being an openness absolutist when it comes to local government.

My second counter-argument has to do with a kind of insidious and often unstated philosophy that assigns higher and better motives to public officials — to government — than to the voters and taxpayers who pay their salaries and foot the bills for their decisions.

There’s something upside-down about the whole progressive-liberal notion that government is to be accorded more respect and deference than the people who consent to be governed.

In this case, elected officials decided that their bosses did not need to know what company was receiving money that their bosses had coughed up for the operation of city government.

That’s just wrong, from both a moral and political perspective.

At what point did local taxpayers get an opportunity to have a say in this decision? How could taxpayers make an informed decision if pertinent information was being withheld from them?

The state and the county and the city officials decided that their good intentions outweighed both state law and the public’s right to know.

That philosophy is so controlling in our own local City Council that this “Project Z” wasn’t even a regular agenda item on the Sept. 1 published meeting agenda.

Instead, “Project Z” was on what’s called the “consent agenda,” meaning that the item is considered to be so unneedful for public input that it isn’t even accorded its own agenda item number. It was lumped in with various other “housekeeping” items to be voted on as an undiscussed package. The vote Thursday night was unanimous to extend the time period for adding the jobs from 12 months to a new limit of 18 months. No name was announced.

This is what our public officials — some elected and some appointed — think of the voters and the taxpayers.

By such secrecy and with such disdain, the government says to the people, “We know best. And when we want you to know something, we’ll decide when and how to tell you. Until then, sit down and shut up.”

Somebody has to say, “Hey, wait a minute! That’s my money, and I elected you to serve, not to rule.”

And that’s why I filed the Open Records request.

And the big secret: Who is the company requesting this $50,000 grant of our local tax money?

It’s Sany, the largest heavy equipment manufacturer in China, and one of the top 10 heavy equipment manufacturers in the world. Sany employs more than 30,000 employees worldwide. Its new American headquarters is in Peachtree City.

Feel better now?

[Cal Beverly has been the editor and publisher of The Citizen since its first issue in 1993.]

Spyglass
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Leave it to this crew

to bitch and moan about jobs being added to the local economy. Frankly, many of this group simply cannot be pleased.

BHH
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I suspect

the secrecy is just so that prices of property needed for the expansion do not spike on the news before a contract for purchase or lease can be signed.

Nothing new or sinister about that kind of maneuvering.

The incentives are usually promised to sway the expansion here as opposed to some other city.

Nothing new or sinister there either.

It doesn't really matter if the public knows who the company is if it will spoil their plans.

No big deal.

roundabout
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BHH

Do I detect that it is OK for a company such as SANY should be able to purchase land secretly by using an intermediary (property investor) who does not tell the owner for what purpose the land is to be used, so that the owner does not get top top dollar for it?

People do buy investment land legitimately when they don't already have a deal closed!

Sounds loke B of A selling "bundles" to Fannie and Freddie!

BHH
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roundabout, you read it right.

It is OK and common practice not only in business but with government projects.

Except that this was identified as a "company" it could very well have been a government entity like the FAA making plans to expand.

But if that were the case the credits wouldn't make any sense.

roundabout
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BHH: Comparison

I see no difference in the Sany thing and when Georgia Road Commissioners, etc., buy certain land near where they know exits are to be built in later years! (They saw it on the plans at the office).

We have made several very rich by that method. They came in with nothing they leave with much.

And do you want to bet that they don't sell that exit land at less than 10 times what they paid for it? Isn't that similar to insider trading?

Is insider trading OK also? Like when a banker tells a friend what's up?

rmoc
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80K and big house???crazy

I am sorry but people relocating to PTC on 80K are probably not buying the 300K plus homes in this economy. $80000 is not a lot of money to live a luxury lifestyle especially if you have kids...and the ones who tried are part of the problem..when we made 80K we lived in Clayton in a 130K house...I still don't have a 300,000 house...Most of the people that I know that live in the high end homes moved from high priced areas during the prime real estate years, had very high end jobs or inherited land from folks...

Ninja Guy
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Currency Error

Since Project Z is Sany, I think the council only assumed that the jobs will pay $80,000! It's more likely the contract says 80,000 yuan, which is about $12,500!

Mei yo!

BHH
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Ninja, who said it is Sany?

It could be Walmart or any other company in PTC.

NUK_1
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BHH: It's SANY

Cal updated his article a couple of days ago and the company is Sany.

lifeinptc
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Good job Cal stay on top of them.

It seems it was a done deal. Why pay them to do what they appeared to already be doing. Paying private industry to do business here is a slippery slope. Who chooses which ones get paid.

mudcat
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Wife work, rmoc. Wife work?

one $80,000 job is enough to attract a family to Peachtree City. When the wife teaches school or turns tricks at a local restaurant, that's good for another $50k ($1,000 per week). Now they are up to $130,000 per year and that gets you into Planterra Ridge. No worries. Live the good life.

rmoc
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sexist comment Mudcat some women make more than 80K

what if the wife makes the 80k and hubby turns tricks at restaurant...:)..even at 130K we are still talking 300k at most for a financially responsible family...Isn't a big part of current problem is because families making 80K were buying 400k homes...4000 a month with a 2200 mortgage doesn't leave much when you have kids and using the homes like bank accounts...

Robert W. Morgan
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Don't think hubby would clear $100 a week in this hetero

county but it would be fun to see him try. Nevertheless, even those numbers are flawed. Family income of $130,000 (from any source) should limit your house purchase to $260,000 - at the very most. Nowdays, a 2:1 ratio is about as much as you want to go with job uncertainty and little or no appreciation expected for years. And that's not just my opinion, go apply for a loan and see what they tell you. Whoever said that these $80,000 jobs were going to stimulate the luxury housing market in PTC was not working with the facts. Of course the exact wording was jobs over $80,000, so I guess if the jobs are $150,000 or more (which I doubt) there might be some impact.

For years it was a 3:1 ration with 4:1 on gross income vs. payments and some down payment and credit requirements. Then thanks to the liberals pushing the idea (Clinton even sicced his AG on the banks) that everyone deserves a home, the purchase ratio went to 4:1 and approached 5:1. That's right - $100,000 income could get you into a $450,000 house with little or no downpayment. And no one saw that turning into a disaster? And I include the Republicans in that stupidity - after all they controlled Congress for much of Clinton's second term. They should have at least waved a red flag on such an obvious disaster. Same thing with Bush. He was there when beginning of the end began. That's what true conservatives are supposed to do - prevent the feel-good liberals from giving away the farm. You all need to try harder.

Now I read the Obama administration is reviving some of those same programs to revive the housing industry (fat chance) and stimulate jobs. Huh? Is this Groundhog Day?

rmoc
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Robert Morgan you are so right!!

Unfortunately, many people will push the limits..I have always underbought which has its disadvantages especially when the opposite is true for your neighbors. I saw this coming in the late 90's when we lived in Clayton County and too many of our new subdivision homes were bought by people who had $0 down and single incomes and could not afford to take care of even newer homes... When we sold in 2000 my agent had 2 homes in the area..ours for 130000..the other for 200000..no matter what income they kept trying to max out and wanted the "fancier" 200k house...and even crazier, many were trying to use those "grant" programs where you try to get the mortgage for the value of the home plus the downpayment and the seller give the "grant" program organization the money back from the sale...what a racket...Guess that is part of why there were about 30 foreclosures in the subdivision in 2000!!!

and Mr. Morgan maybe my husband is Hot!!!!

Robert W. Morgan
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Forgot about the kickbacks , err, grants

Talk about pushing the envelope. A government sponsored program to commit mortgage fraud and get away with it. This was the height or irresponsibility. And look for more of the same if Prezbo can dress it up, put lipstick on it and call it a jobs program.

I'm sure your hubby is hot as a firecracker, although I was referring to mudcat's hubby, who thinks highly of himself. Remember guys, $50,000 per year is $1,000 per week or $200 per day/night - 5 days a week. Every single week, with 2 off for good behavior. Think it through.

jackyldo
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local liberal checking in

Now that we hear Sany -- and we see 100 jobs @ $500.00 a piece ..

How will this be monitored ?
Will the $$ only be paid if the 100 new employees come from zip code 30269?

Will the money be paid if they hire Fayette County residents and will the incentive be repaid by the county to PTC ?

I get the fact that 100 x $80000. will bring about $4.5 million in take home pay into the local economy as long as we hire local. This is good news for Pit Stop Subway Wendy's and those that will add business along new and improved 74S... BUT A MECHANISM has to be in place so that these jobs don't eventually go to people in on Visas from other countries as they might claim they can not find "qualified" local people.

As a member of PTC NATION (LIBERAL AND CONSERVATIVE) I want to see what our money is buying - in the bright and healthy sunshine of openness.

mudcat
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A liberal asks how is government monitored?

Are you kidding me? This is a blank check. Hurry up, do it secretly and try and keep the recipient's name away from the public. That's a pretty clear sign that there will be no monitoring or accountability. Liberals should know that. It is about intentions and feelings, not hard, cold and businesslike. Get a grip.

So, Cal, did we figure out why Sany wanted the secrecy? Negotiating a land sale maybe? Lining up some financing? Must be a reason. And what if they actually had a real good and vital reason for the secrecy and blowing their cover kills the deal? I assume the purists in the press would say the public's right to know trumps an economic shot in the arm. Really? I'm not so sure. How is my life improved by knowing it is Sany 3 days early? Doesn't mean a thing to me.

I do know my life will become more complicated and expensive if the deal is killed and my taxes raised to cover more and more shortfalls. The people that don't get the 80 jobs might have trouble saying "Oh well, I'm still unemployed, but at least we have freedom of the press" Just asking.

roundabout
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mudcat

I have often wondered what "just asking," means!

Now I know. It means: I'll take making money anytime over the free press!

Even if it means some poor fool gets cheated on his land!

We are Christians, mostly! Aren't we?

Wasn't St. Paul a Roman tax collector?

Our poor American Indians didn't even understand the concept of someone "Owning" the land!

The least we can do is see that everyone gets the highest price by bids.

All caskets are free of cash, checks, and deeds!

mudcat
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No raghead, just asking means none of those things

Just asking is short for - I am simply asking a question, the answer of which may cause other people to reflect and think carefully about the cause and effect of certain actions. You can see why an abbreviation is needed.

That being said, why don't you take a stab at the real question, which was how important is the press finding out the name of the company if the company's need for secrecy guaranteed the project would move forward and the jobs were actually created. OR, since you focus on the negative, here is the same question framed in a negative way - What happens if Sany kills the expansion and jobs project because Cal forced their name out of the city against their express wishes? Can't wait to see a reasoned response from roundabout.

roundabout
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Mudcat: It is "Manglish"

I'm just saying," or "I'm just asking," really means:

I don't have a clue--I've thrown out a bunch of stuff which maybe you will clarify! I obviously think it is true also or I wouldn't have said all that stuff!

You know, I mean, just asking.

If it kills jobs due to the landowner finding out he is being conned by SANY, intermediaries, and others--maybe banks, then it should be. Maybe he will get what it is worth now!

Start a war----that creates millions of jobs!
But is it Christian or Muslim, or Jewish, or Buddhist, Nirvana, etc.

These kind of deals are called "Pinhooking" in the mid-south!
I think the made a movie about "The Sting," which is also close.

Planned all of the time inside churches, especially the Vatican!

mudcat
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Interpretation - and yes one is needed

I am almost sure you are saying journalistic purity rules! The right of the public to know overwhelms any concern of private business or government- results be damned.

I am sure many will agree with you. Sorry Cal, but he-she-it is on your side.

roundabout
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MUD: You stretch it

There are times when it would be dangerous for a newspaper to print information for the public that could harm them. Jobs is not one of them.

It does not hurt them however to protect individuals from getting scammed for the benefit of "Business."

How do you think the railroad barons got so wealthy; and J.D. Rockefeller, and Old man Kennedy; and all that bunch that used to spend the winters on a Georgia Island plotting next years robberies?

Coal operators have stolen more coal from under unsuspecting owners than Carter has liver pills! I have a friend who this happened to.

And underground natural gas: it goes everywhere---nobody knows!

Wasn't it Dillinger who said he robbed banks because that was where the money was?

Land is the latest treasure to try robbing.

If you want religion destroyed----mix it with business.

NUK_1
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I agree also

Private business is no longer "private" when they stick their hands out and receive government largess. You want the public money given to you, you have to deal with the public scrutiny.

roundabout
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jackyldo

You must know that a simple agreement to getpaid 50 K for 100 well paid workers has many, many more details in the agreement!~

Just that amount of money by itself is like buying them an ice cream cone. (each),

Do you want to pin it down to only those who live withing 100 yards of town hall? How long do those NAMED have to work before check is issued?
Can they have long hair and wear a hair net?
Can they be Atomic scientists?
Will the Mayor personally verify if they are illegals?
Don't you trust the town council?
Are there any dues to PTC Nation?

MYTMITE
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Cogit, did I miss something? Was someone given an automobile

to sweeten the deal? If so, who and when? Sorry but I must have been asleep at the wheel because I haven't heard or seen that anywhere.

roundabout
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MyTcar

Yeah, a $50,000 dollar one to SANY, I hear!

Gort
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I don’t object to the policy

I don’t object to the policy that people working in government have their pay scales fully disclosed to the public but I do object when corporate welfare is so carefully shielded from our prying eyes.

NUK_1
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Gort: Agree

I am positive that the PTC Council also blatantly violated the Open Meetings law of GA in doing this. The law is very clear on the few exceptions that can be discussed in Executive Session, and this sure isn't one of them. The fact that they passed the giveaway after a 5min discussion tells you all you need to know about how "Project Z" was handled in private and with clear intent to hide it. It matters not a whit whether the "state" wants anything in that area since the "state" is also subject to the very same Open Meetings Act.

I am not at this point for/against the whole SANY incentive, but how it was handled is likely a violation of the Open Meetings law and is an issue that should have been handled in clear sunshine. This is the third example recently(The Rec/Gaddo deal, Haddix censure proposal)of this Council acting very cowardly and like weasels who think they know what is best for everyone and the citizens should just take it, and take it nice. Uh, no.

Gort
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Nuk_1, what gets me curious is,

Sany is the heavy equipment maker of cranes, excavators, concrete pump trucks, and other such stuff to support large infrastructure projects. Why are they making this big investment when there is low demand in the US?

I bet people in PTC will start to appreciate the noise barriers that line Highway 74 when the truck traffic ramps up.

GeorgeDienhart
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Government must be open to it's constituents

I believe that the council must stop this behavior. I want to re-build the team that built Peachtree City – good citizens, good business and good government. The people of Peachtree City need to be considered a partner in governing our city- not a hindrance to a political agenda.

Ninja Guy
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Mayor Haddix and Sunshine Laws

For someone prone to squawking about the legality or illegality of city actions based on the numerous workshops attended (workings of development authorities, conflict of interest of city officials, golf carts on state highways, etc.), Haddix sure was quick to break or circumvent the sunshine law when it came to Sany! Does Chief Haddix trace his Indian roots all the way back to Asia! Perhaps Chief Haddix sees the election handwriting on the wall and is pulling a Frady--getting his while the getting is good!

Dogs lose to BS, but is that really a bad thing?

Braves walking toward the wildcard spot now it seems--lose 2-1.

Any banana suits spotted locally this past weekend?

Rain coming--are you prepared for 6"?

roundabout
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It seems we are stuck on"idiot" for our Mayor.

It is used by about six people on here so much that I think most see the word and just ignore the whole comment.

Might I suggest some other words you can use if you wish to continue this 5th grade stuff:

plank; charlie;plonker; geek; imbecile; cretin; oaf; simpleton; gobshite; mooncalf.

Now if any of you have thrown rocks at the woman before but have the characteristics of the above, don't throw the first stone!

This is like expecting the President to find 13 million jobs in two years all by himself. How many has Boehner found?

Folks we were in so bad of shape that it is going to take over five years to get back to a true 5% unemployment---especially by cutting taxes, adding to the unemployment lines by firing many others suggested, and doing away with all regulations causing pure havoc!

ptcrightnow
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Idiot for Mayor - Roundie

Roundie,

Citizen Steve had a good name - "horse's butt"

Robert W. Morgan
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Fine idea George, but the team is older now.

The team to which you refer, the ones who built PTC before the current politically charged enviornment are all 10 or 15years older now. You may have to settle for a replica team. Sure, there was a coalition of citizens (volunteers - the 10% that did absolutely everything), good business (retailers and others who really cared plus the development company and the banks) and good government which was led by Jim Williams and Jim Basinger - even though Frady, Fred Brown and Lenox were the mayors. No agendas or intrique, no name-calling, no split factions - in short no political thought, just a bunch of people working together to grow the city.

That of course ended with Steve Brown and his political party BRAWN they were called and they dedicated themselves to sniffing out evil (both real and imagined) and doing everything they could to discredit the team that you admire and want to rebuild. That team was accused of cronyism (true), insider lending (partially true), price gouging, restraint of trade, clubbiness, providing tennis and developer/builder welfare and most damning - being the old guard that would not give way to the new sheriff in town. That's where it started. It has gotten worse with do-nothing Logsdon and do-everything-wrong Haddix.

You can in fact reconstruct the team you imagine, albeit with new people who share the ideals of those who have passed on or retired or moved away. You have a good core group with the ladies and Eric on council. Any team assembled needs to share a common goal and if I may be so bold to suggest that the 3 major goals should be:
1. Reversing the city's anti-business attitude or perceived attitude. Staff adjustments are crucial on this one as is getting sensible on some of the regulations. Trees, walking signs, dogs are not the problem. Retailers in this town are completely disgusted with the city. Need to turn that around and make them part of the team. Works better that way.
2. Preserve the amenities we have without letting taxes get so high it forces people to leave. Sound impossible? Read #3.
3. Get serious about recruiting industry and creating jobs. This mystery expansion of our mystery company sounds like it might be a good thing. Sany was another good thing. Cooper's expansion was a good thing as well. 3 good things in 10 years. Not good enough for a 10 year period.

In order to do this, you do what an alcoholic or drug addict has to do as the first couple of steps. First you admit you have a problem. Then you stop associating with those that will lead you astray. In the city's case that is anyone that preaches that one group is better than another and has a strong "us and them" mentality. Brown is still around, but he is now tilting at the right windmills but there are plenty of others that are just as dangerous as he was. Avoid them. You can't ignore them when you are running for office, but you sure can afterwards. Just think of them as a not so special interest group.

GeorgeDienhart
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I agree

Just to clarify- I did mean rebuild the team with new people.

I want to work with our existing businesses as well as new businesses to create jobs. In fact, that was the thrust of my speech to the Tea Party. We need to fill our empty commercial spaces and work with existing business on job creation. We need to cut all extraneous spending and leave taxes low. Filling the empty businesses and cultivating new business would increase our tax revenue. These new businesses will bring some new employees, who will buy houses, shop and eat at our restaurants. This also generates new revenue for the city. I agree that this needs to be a top priority. Other cities actively court businesses. We should be no different.

I was also pleased to read that the auto policy is being reviewed. That was due to the people taking notice.This should have been done as part of a partnership with residents, as opposed to a reaction to bloggers and candidates complaining, but at least it was movement in a positive direction...

Thanks for the advice!

ptcrightnow
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George Dienhart

Also, please remember that when Mr. Christian wrote an editorial, our wonderful mayor slammed him instead of thanking him.

I wish you luck in this election and once you are on city council, you will learn quickly how insane the mayor is, plus when you disagree with him, he will attack you too.

Best of luck

cogitoergofay
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Mr. Beverly, you remind me of

Mr. Beverly, you remind me of our current clergy at our church---- you will be desperately missed when you are gone.

The main focal point of this story is not the Open Meetings issue or the corporate gratuity. The real issue is that the only come-uppance that local government leaders and their lawyers get for violating Georgia's toothless Sunshine Laws is an Editorial from you. Compare Florida officials, who receive a request, telephone you and you can hear their heels clicking at attention. Why ? Because the Florida AG enforces the law. Here the penalties are very slight and you have to hire a lawyer. I will take issue with your praise of PTC--- for them (and for the County Commission)--- this is by no means their first rodeo over the last 20 years.

Back to Sany. I am not disturbed by the ultimate action but by the manner in which it was done. And, with the distrust (for example) that Mr. Imker has recently created, I still don't believe we will ever know the full story. It makes no sense-- why would any company considering a million dollar annual personnel expansion be influenced by a little vig in the amount of a new car? And why the secret?

Whether Council was right or wrong we'll never know.

P.S. Roundie$ is correct, I believe, and not Mudcat-- it was former Mayor Logsdon and Commission Chair Jack Smith who received the Asian junket packages. (Perhaps he received acupuncture to deal with that alcohol allergy).

roundabout
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cogitoergofay: Republican plan for jobs!

The republican plan for jobs is somewhat like blaming Haddix and not Logston for being responsible for something he didn't do.

We need about eight million (8,000,000) new jobs right now in order to get back to where we were before the 2000-2010 catastrophe of overbuilding and easy credit actions. If you noticed, now the government is suing most large banks for selling them fictitious and ill-regulated loans just to make a profit they did not deserve.
It is hard to imagine that many thieving bankers and their boards!
And no, it wasn't the fault of government stopping the red-lining of areas not to make loans. No one told the banks to make bad loans.

Anyway, my research shows the following as the republican plan for getting
those eight million jobs (right away, as that is what they expected of Obama).

Reduce taxes on high earners, corporations, LL corporations, and oil companies.

Suspend all regulations supposedly keeping companies from hiring.

Stop all EPA work and breath the crud longer.

Do not use any more government stimulus unless social security, vets benefits, medicare, medicaid, and the budgets of most cabinet departments are cut just as much.

Now think a minute how long it will take to establish eight milllion jobs!
We need about 1 1/2 million every year to put the NEW population to work.
That will add up to about seven million additional jobs needed within five years.
That makes eight million needed now plus seven million over the five years of new workers, which equal fifteen million neded!

Five years has 60 months. 15,000,000 divided by 60 = 250,000 new jobs per month needed for five years!!! Or, three million per year over the amount fired or retired.

I can't make the magic of the republican plans come up with that many jobs or even 1/10 of them!

Cut taxes and the CEOs and the boards of directors will loosen tons of money for new jobs-----Right!

Not only are we bad at math, some of us are either stupid or crooked!

roundabout
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I meant to mention....(above)

..........that most of the candidates know this situation even better than I do, but if they say so, they are dead ducks.

We live in a false positive society and think that one negative thought can cause the problem not to be solved.

ptcrightnow
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Liberal-Progressive?

Where did that come from? Let's not mix politics with government here!!!

Glad to see that city council is working together and trying something different to help expand our local economy...too bad its not an American company.

moelarrycurly
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OK, forget the 747's. Forget World, too.

But how about this SANY? Are we just giving away the farm here, or what?

Name roads for them. Grant sign variances. Give tax credits local, state and federal. Waive every fee the city is entitled to. Have other businesses change their addresses for them. Spend city money on new landscaping for them on their new road. Alter the landscape rules so they don't have to follow them. I'm all for helping them out if they need it, but come on. Multi-billion dollar company? From a communist country? (lest we forget that one)

Tell me, when does the butt-kissing end? Either build it and get to work within our system or haul yourselves home again.

Yes, I want to see tit for tat. So far, lots of tit and no tat. Time will tell. Ta-ta for now.

Thank you Cal Beverly. You done good.

mudcat
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Ok maybe it is the Sany helicopter program

At least I didn't say progom. Anyhow, the Sany helicopter that ferries the execs in and out may be getting expanded to fixed wing aircraft. That would explain the airport connection and the job credit. Remember Mayor Haddix went to China on the taxpayer's dime to see their operation and he has been a big champion of them ever since?

So, Sany gets 20 airplanes and 100 pilots and they are going to buy up all the unsold and foreclosed luxury housing in Peachtree City? And how many jets at the AP? Works for me. Hope it is true. Nee how ma!

roundabout
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MUD

I find it interesting that you, of all people, would want to bring up dumb about someone else!

I didn't know Haddix went with lOGSTON OR logsdon, OR WHATEVER.

The Japanese live in little 800 square feet high rises made of bamboo---not in 4000 foot PTC wannabe houses!

Their wives don't get to see them but once or twice a month and that is after midnight when they return from the Geisha places, drunk.

You might want to change those striped pants once in a while!

moelarrycurly
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mud-uh, I'm sure you mean

former Mayor Logsdon went to China on the taxpayer's dime.

No, I think the Airport Authority gave up tons o' freebies to them, too. Probably free hangar space for the next 99 years. Just another small butt-kiss to match all the other butt-kissing going on. Seems to be an epidemic of it going around in the govt. arena.

The jobs are going to be engineering jobs. R & D, too. They're gonna pay 'em lots to scarf 'em away from their American employers. When they get 'em, they then keep 'em for a few years, just long enough to absorb all the expertise they learned from their former (US) employers so they can teach their own the ropes back home. Note the travel to China involved in the jobs below. Ask someone who works for Caterpillar what SANY is doing to them.

http://www.sanyamerica.com/abroad/america/en-us/jobs/policy.jsp

Sound like a plan?

Liferfrom65
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20 planes and 100 pilots

So, Sany gets 20 airplanes and 100 pilots and they are going to buy up all the unsold and foreclosed luxury housing in Peachtree City? And how many jets at the AP? Works for me. Hope it is true. Nee how ma![/quote]

It's not.

Robert W. Morgan
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Sany doesn't pay anybody $80,000.

Best take that rumor off your wish list. And if for some reason Sany is the mystery company, which I doubt, the created jobs will go to Chinese nationals with a green card - or maybe without a green card. Either way,, don't see a lot of $300,000 plus house sales in our future.

Now if Chick-fil-A relocates their headquarters here, that would help a little. Most of their execs already live southside and within decent commuting distance of PTC, but there would still be new jobs coming into the city and all the spin off from that - especially in retail, would be great! I wonder if Chick-fil-A people are allowed to eat at other restaurants.

Whoever the mystery company is, it is obvious they bypassed the locals (including the mayor) and went through the state to announce this. They said it was an existing company, so it will be interesting to find out why they handled it by keeping the city at arm's length. Good job Cal. I guess we will learn something Tuesday.

BTW, they announced (late Fri. PM for minimum impact and press coverage) that the Rec Admin building is being closed and the people reassigned.

Spyglass
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74 sold or so in the last 6 months

per GAMLS. That's only the homes reported. 300K+, PTC address.

53 in the 6 month period before that.

I've spoken with Bubba Cathy buying BBQ at Deans in Jonesboro. FWIW

Robert W. Morgan
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That's actually not that bad

Round that to 100 a year and assume the total of all houses over $300k is 20% of the 10,000. So, 100 a year out of a base of 2,000 turnover each year. Not bad considering we are borderline recession.

Of course a lot of value has been lost in the $4-600,000 range, but it is better than most other counties. Our little bubble is holding together.

Spyglass
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Much better than many areas

for sure.

NUK_1
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SANY

Agreed! There are "incentives" and then there is "giving away the farm." Here's hoping this is indeed a worthwhile use of incentives and altering existing ways of doing business in PTC that everyone else has to go by.

moelarrycurly wrote:

Yes, I want to see tit for tat. So far, lots of tit and no tat.

Hehehehehehe.....that was cool, Beavis.

BHH
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Wow! 100 $80,000 per yr jobs?

Who can offer that many jobs in that range and why do they need $500 incentives?

mudcat
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The State? As in Georgia wants it kept secret?

What's up with that? I can see that if it is the National Weather Service expanding with federal money, but it is more likely Chic-fil-A or World Airways. Not sure about the secrecy. And I'm certainly not sure why Peachtree City taxpayers have to fork over $500 per job and how that got voted on rush rush without any discussion - unless of course there was a secret meeting.

Good work, Cal. But did you really mean to call PTC council a bunch of liberals?
"There’s something upside-down about the whole progressive-liberal notion that government is to be accorded more respect and deference than the people who consent to be governed."

County commission probably deserves that slap, but good old Peachtree City Council? Come on. Mr. and Mrs. Hometowns unselfishly serving the needs of our growing city? Just everyday citizens graciously volunteering their valuable time for little money and no recognition? No Cal, liberals don't do that, only conservatives. Salt of the earth, modest, hard-working, sober volunteers who are opposed to same-sex marriage, abortion on demand and gun control. I can see them all now, dressed in denim and plaid posing for a Norman Rockwell painting. Be nice to these people, Cal. They are vey sensitive.

roundabout
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Mud

Liberals run in bunches and republicans hide behind hypocrisy---that is why I am an Independent, I don't have to sell my soul to keep my card.

You were wrong about Chic-Fil-A, it is one of the liquor stores!
A pipe line has already been laid all the way from Kentucky to the back of the store.

Those homes needing branch pipelines from the store to their homes can sign up at $2000, plus $500 per mile after 2 miles.

Just as gasoline comes through the same pipe line for all brands, beer and wine will also flow alternately.

A new branch of the Betty Ford Clinic will be opening soon on the West Side of town near Planterra.

Mud: here is how the voting goes anymore---

15% black and Hispanic
30% democrats
30% republicans
25% Independents

Who ever votes the most and gets the most black and hispanic votes, plus the majority of the Independents will win the National Election.

This doesn't apply for local elections. They are gerrymandered sufficiently in GA to guarantee republican and Teas and Libertarians win.

Whomever scares the easiest will vote as the TEAS threaten!

mudcat
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There's a difference between funny and stupid.Thanks for helping

Thanks for helping to show everyone the difference between funny and stupid.
Evidence is in the previous posts.
Don't think I need to explain, but boy are you stupid roundie.

PTC Observer
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Mudcat - Equal Opportunity

""There’s something upside-down about the whole progressive-liberal notion that government is to be accorded more respect and deference than the people who consent to be governed.""

I agree Mudcat, there is nothing but equal opportunity in letting political power go to you head. All you have to do is get elected. "Progressives" or "Conservatives" once elected to the political class go out of their way to subdue personal freedom. They just come at it from two different directions. They just can't help themselves, after all they have been "anointed" by the masses.

Ninja Guy
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PTCO, Looks Like You

are headed for the Machinery of Freedom and seasteading with Patri! Say hello to Patri, his wife, and his wife's boyfriend for me!

Go UC Maroons!

PTC Observer
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Ninja - We'll

We'll do.

Liferfrom65
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World

For anybody that thinks there is any possibility of World Airways flying their planes into and out of the PTC airport, forget about it. World does not own an aircraft that could be flown into that airport. Every statement by the round man is ridiculous.

roundabout
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Lifeform(maybe)

I have said nothing about World flying in here.

The 747 thing was meant to be ridiculous.

You are confused.

Liferfrom65
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It was ridiculous

Where's the ignore feature on this thing?

jackyldo
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why single out liberals and progressives Cal ?

I am proudly both and i demand accountability and openness from my government. If they are spending my money I want to know where it goes not so unlike all the rest of the citizens..

This issue need NOT be politicized.

Spyglass
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I am relieved.

that you are looking out for us. :)

mthom5436
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“Those jobs should provide a

“Those jobs should provide a shot in the arm to the city’s higher-end housing market, Herndon noted after the council meeting."

-This statement assumes that people who don't already live here want to.

My wife and I are 30ish, I grew up here, we have college degrees, goods jobs and we want to have kids in the near future. We own a home (have a mortgage)in PTC. We also have a few of friends of the same age with a similar story. The difference is, none of our friends live here or want to. Our friends that have moved back to this area all live in surrounding towns and wouldn't even consider moving here. When I ask why I get two main reasons: 1. more house for less money else where 2. over policed.

mudcat
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Sharpsburg, Senoia, Brooks? No way

Sounds like your friends have something to hide. Probably growing something to smoke in their basement, which is why they need a larger house. I don't think we are over policed because I have no need to speed, drink and drive or run around with one of my tail lights burnt out. If anything we could use more police on the cart paths - especially near Braelinn Shopping Center. The teens there seem to be up to something. Don't see that elsewhere.

Spyglass
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They don't know what they are missing..

Seriously, some folks "get" the golf cart life style, some don't. I love being able to go weekends without even thinking of cranking my car, yet still being able to enjoy a nice dinner out, run errands, go shopping etc.

More Cowbelle
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Cal Beverly

Making Fayette County a better place to live one Open Records request at a time.

suggarfoot
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Thank you Cal

as usual, always on top of things.

roundabout
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Cal---Good try

I suspect that the company coming in question does not want this announced due to their employees being effected possibly.

This goes on all of the time and until money is actually committed to the company, no law is broken.

I don't know where your reporter got this information and just why it was even released to him. That is the strange part here. What good can that possibly serve anyone?

I will agree that otherwise than the preliminary announcement, I can understand why the city nor the company want 100,000 Fayette County people involved with their wants.

Do I smell a get Haddix here?

moelarrycurly
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Cal Beverly

Excellent points, I agree with your request.

Someone blogged on here it was World Airways. I don't know if that is true. However, if Clayton State College is moving to World Drive, maybe they will relocate over to the airport and expand. Just wild conjecture here, what if World Airways 747 cargo planes will be used to bring SANY parts in to their new assembly plant here? Will our new runway extension accept a 747?

Again, until the facts come out, and Cal can pin this down, feel free to put these rumors to rest anyone.

Spyglass
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No, it will not accept a 747

Way too much weight involved. It's not always about runway length. There's a joke in there somewhere.....

roundabout
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Spy

I can't wait for the 747s to come roaring over PTC with engines wide open in order to stay in the air, loaded with crane parts!

I suspect that any golf ball close to a hole will vibrate in for a lot of birdies!

Will the airports fuel tanks hold enough to refuel just one 747?

Or will a pipeline be run from North Atlanta to this airport?

I may want to open a Chinese restaurant on airport premises.

Cyclist
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Gee, I wonder if roundabout's...

Chinese restaurant will offer a dollar menu.

hutch866
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Cy

I used to wonder why all the Chinese places sold kitty collars, until I saw one I recognized.

Cyclist
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hutch - kitty collars

You haven't heard the latest, we now have two of the darling little critters because.....well because the boss said so. I have named these little fur balls...Dumb and Dumber.

Robert W. Morgan
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Perfect. Have them run for city council

or county commission, if they prefurrr.

Cyclist
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RWM

A smashing idea. It certainly couldn't hurt. I wonder if I can get the city/county to clean their litter box in exchange.

NUK_1
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Good job, Cal!

I was wondering if anyone was going to make an Open Records request since obviously to those who have even the vaguest idea about that law know that the company name and all other documents related to this project are not exempt from the law and have to be provided upon request. Shame it's going to take the whole 3 days and also a shame they didn't just name the company in "Project Z" already, especially since this is a use of residents' tax dollars.