Moving past unhealthy politics

Bonnie Willis's picture

Just this past Friday, the U.S. House of Representatives passed a Continuing Resolution (CR) that would fully fund the government so Social Security recipients, veterans, military, and schools would all receive budgeted funding for the upcoming year, but it did not include funding for Obamacare.

As part of the separate, but equal, legislative branch of government, the House of Representatives, is responsible for setting federal budgets. This means they have the authority to fund or not fund programs based on whether or not they think it is in the best interest of their constituents.

By voting to fund the government, but not Obamacare, representatives believe that the majority of their constituents are against Obamacare — despite it being the law of the land. And this belief is consistent with national polling data which shows that the majority of Americans are not in favor of the federally-funded healthcare program.

In previous articles, I have even made my case for not supporting Obamacare. I reasoned that large corporations are getting waivers, government workers are getting stipends, but average working Americans are stuck with skyrocketing healthcare cost, for many of the promises of making healthcare affordable have been anything but that over the last three years.

Despite the fallacies of Obamacare, however, and its disapproval by Americans, the vote to defund Obamacare — by members of the House of Representatives — seem to be maligned in the public square.

Once again, members of the House of Representatives — a majority of whom are Republicans — are being labeled as extremists and obstructionists.

But, didn’t they act constitutionally, and took a position that reflected the heartfelt sentiment of the majority of the American people? Or, are representatives supposed to vote against their constituents because the opposition party has control of the Senate and the presidency?

In other words, are their votes a futile effort that will only result in them being blamed for a government shutdown?

I honestly do not understand the latter concern. I thought the whole point of divided government, or, separate but equal branches of government, was to provide a system of checks and balances, allowing the voices of the American people to truly be heard.

It seems like common sense, or the American way, to me, that when there is a point of disagreement in the public square, all parties should be able to present their case in a logical manner without being personally slandered, and malicious judgments be made of their hearts and intents.

Further, elected officials should be able to identify points of commonality, and move forward with solutions that address the needs of the American people.

Alas, in this age, such a notion seems impossible, for most elected officials seem to be more worried about their personal and party interests, rather than those of the country.

Indeed, most pundits predict that the House approved CR will go to the Senate — which will pass its own CR, including the funding of Obamacare. Then, if the House holds to its original vote, rejecting the Senate’s resolution, there will be a stalemate in government.

If no compromise is reached, a budget will not be passed by the “dreaded” Oct. 1 deadline, and an effective “shutdown of government” will ensue.

Technically, all financial obligations of the federal government — including Social Security payments, funding of military engagements, and payments to our national debt — could continue, but much of what we would consider discretionary spending may not continue. This would be at the discretion of the president.

This understanding, therefore, begs the question, who would really be shutting down government?

As I see it, the House is doing its duty and is representing the sentiments of working Americans who are being hammered by this law.

Yet, the House is being chided because it is not rubber-stamping (once again) the unpopular demands of the administration.

It is truly disappointing that, the president, rather than humbly going before the American people and acknowledging that [because of] his own actions of delaying various aspects of the law, the “Affordable Care Act” is simply not ready for implementation.

The president seems unwilling to bring both sides of Congress together to find points of agreement and compromise. Once again, fingers are being pointed at congressional Republicans, who are conveniently blamed and accused of being extortionist and shutting down government, because they are taking a constitutional stance.

By his actions, however, and those of his own administration, couldn’t the president also be accused of the very same thing?

More and more I feel the air of politics becoming toxic and divisive. It seems like you can’t simply disagree with the administration — and voice alternative solutions — without having your motives and character impugned.

Whatever happened to the man who said that we are not red states or blue states, but the United States of America? Whatever happened to listening to the will of the people and working towards finding common ground?

At this juncture in the healthcare debate, and in our nation’s history, the president has an opportunity to truly hear America’s working class and actively lead Congress towards identifying a compromise.

The president has a wonderful opportunity to move us past the point of unhealthy politics and show that we really can be the “united” states of America.”

[Bonnie B. Willis is co-founder of The Willis Group, LLC, a Learning, Development, and Life Coaching company here in Fayette County and lives in Fayetteville along with her husband and their five children.]

Davids mom
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Thank you Mrs Willis
Quote:

I honestly do not understand the latter concern. I thought the whole point of divided government, or, separate but equal branches of government, was to provide a system of checks and balances, allowing the voices of the American people to truly be heard.

It seems like common sense, or the American way, to me, that when there is a point of disagreement in the public square, all parties should be able to present their case in a logical manner without being personally slandered, and malicious judgments be made of their hearts and intents.

The House, the elected body that represents the American people by population tried 50+ times to pass a bill defunding Obamacare. They were not successful. The Senate, where each state has the same number of Senators (2) voted to approve Obamacare. The American people have spoken through their elected representatives.

I agree with you on your quoted point Mrs. Willis - but evidently there are others who do not. However, thank you and The Citizen for allowing another view point to be heard in Fayette County. Fayette County is doing just fine under the Republican Party and the handling of local issues. Many feel that the goals of the members of both parties and independents are very similar to the goals listed in our Constitution. What some have seen as opening opportunities for all citizens is viewed as the 'taking away' of 'rights' of others. Unfortunately, in some regions of our country the distrust between Democrats and Republicans is, as you say, unhealthy. In some regions, the healing has begun - but not in Washington D.C. and the predominantly Red States.

Ignoring another point of view is unhealthy, but the right of any citizen in our United States. If one examines the so-called areas of disagreement on many issues - there are areas where those who use common sense can agree.
What concerns many regarding Obamacare is the lack of credible information regarding its future implementation.
It is law - and many are benefitting from the parts that have already been implemented. Would the Republican Party defund preventative exams; children under 26 remaining on their parents plan; pre-existing conditions not being accepted ? It is a shame that the health of our children and citizens and the necessity of paying our bills (made by Congress via previous legislation) is a political football.

Someone has accused me and those who feel as I do - that we are preaching 'my way or the highway'. I'm just asking for A WAY for leaders to get together and work towards solving these issues instead if vying for the 2016 national election. So far, women, minorities, immigrant families, and the youth haven't heard a platform from the national Republican Party that designates a 'way' for their future.

Sorry'Prez'. - I'm not taking my ball and going home. I am home!

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DM

I have tried to be nice to DM but the post are really one sided. DM's way or the highway, just like stick ball in the 50 and 60's, my team is losing so I take my ball and go home. Guys just use the ignore button on her and we will have fewer post to schroll through. Wish there was an ignore button!

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Man posing as Obama robs citizens

The man is described as a 40- to 50-year-old bald black man with a medium to dark complexion, police said. He is about 6-foot, 250-pound black man with sideburns.
Man Posing As Federal Agent Robbing People On South Side

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Bonnie: Love your points

You really nailed it..the Administration is shoving a flawed law down our throats and if you disagree you must be racist or elitist. Working folks are already suffering and it appears that Obamacare will make them suffer more. Healthcare costs are spiraling because we are "sicker", the number of folks with chronic conditions is spiraling. I see folks all the time on their scooters that are overweight and in bad health. 30 - 40 years ago they probabably would have died but because of improvements in medical treatment they keep going. I am almost 50 and although I could lose a few pounds, I see 30 year olds that make me look skinny and while I am walking my 3 miles a day they are on their golf carts. Is it fair that a healthy 49 year old has to pay an extra 200-500 a month because of bad life choices by others? I understand that there are some folks that have bad health through none of their bad choices but a large number are there because of these. I am a Healthcare Professional and had a wise professor in Grad School who knew this was coming 15 years ago.

Davids mom
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FACTS AND FICTION

Look up many sources - and judge for yourself how Obamacare will affect you and yours.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/09/25/cruz-fact-check/2...

Both sides tend to exaggerate,

Robert W. Morgan
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Don't have to look up anything, MOMS

Got a thing in the mail from my insurance company that said I was out of my present plan and had to choose another. One phone call later told me I was out of my insurance company as well because of the county in which I lived. I still have Medicare, but have to jump through all the hoops I did last year just to stay insured with Part B and the drugs. Guess that "You can still keep" BS is really BS.

I despise this President for what he is doing to the elderly in this country. It is he that "wants them (meaning us) to die" not the Republicans. Them are facts Mom, don't need no freakin' links.

Davids mom
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RWM

Sincerely, I'm sorry that at your age, you are in this situation. I'm 74, and because of decisions that I made when I was 24, I am still enjoying my Blue Cross/Blue Shield PPO coverage as well as Medicare. My father advised me to chose the 'company that had the best benefit package. I did. I am blessed with good health - and took advantage of the annual preventative exam just yesterday. Each individual person will have to become informed based on his/her own situation. I have seen in my lifetime insurance plans change in the coverage offered. It is still dependent on ones income, age, etc. My husband and I also received letters, and we are creating a list of questions for our provider. There have been changes in spousal coverage if both worked for the same company. (Regardless of the provider/s). This is one time when politicians need to get out of advising based on politics - and let the public become informed. Those providers who listen to the complaints and make changes will be winners. (free market?)

SPQR
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Change

If your medical insurance coverage is not going to change in all probability you are a Government employee or retiree. The rest of us who "planned" are going to take it in the shorts as our investment in the future is transferred to the grasshoppers.

S. Lindsey
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...and the Middle Class is going to shoulder the burden

The Rich won't notice it.. The Poor will get subsidized...

But the "We are for the Working Class" party knows those of us in the middle will be
the ones squeezed.

My Employer has now gone from paying 100% of our healthcare to paying 70% individual and 60% family because of our
"Cadillac" healhcare plan.. and we didn't have the Millions to buy a Senator to get us exempt.

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SLindsey, it must be

SLindsey, it must be disappointing, eh? After all the shilling you’ve done for big business, only to be ‘stabbed in the back’ by your own employer. Tsk, tsk.

BTW, you have a Cadillac health plan! Don’t tell me you work in a company that has a union?

SPQR
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SL nice summary but

you left out one group. Our elected representatives who by excluding themselves will also not notice. If this isn't a criminal act I don't know what is

SPQR
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more change as promised

My(Fortune 100) employer has a HIGH deductible plan but is still reducing coverage by 10%. Waiting for the other inevitable shoe.

Davids mom
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The Constitution

The Preamble:

Quote:

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

The preamble to the Constitution clearly states WE THE PEOPLE - not we the Tea Party, The Democrats, The Republicans, The Libertarians - The Government. . . . .but we the people. . .all of the people. The people of the United States are represented in Congress by their elected representatives in the House and the Senate. The Constitution is a statement of what THE PEOPLE hope to accomplish:

1. Form a more perfect union
2. Establish justice
3. Provide for the common defense'
4. Promote the general welfare
5. Secure the blessings of liberty for ourselves and our posterity.

The stated goal of one representative of the Senate after Obams's election was to insure that Obama was a one term president. He and his party failed.

The stated goal of others in the Congress that supposedly represented 'we the people of the United States' - worked on issues - but as a party, even after some of their suggestions were included in the presented 'bi-partisan' bill - voted against the bill as a party

The standard bearer of the Republican Party introduced a healthcare program in his state. This plan was used as a model for the Affordable Healthcare Plan - now known as Obamacare . It has been vilified by the Republican Party (the Tea Party) who have utilized varied strategies to defund the program that has been declared law.

Now the ridiculous 'threat' of closing the government.

The Republican Party tried 50+ times to defund Obamacare.

The MEMBERS OF THE Republican Party are now at odds with one another.

World leaders are aware of the leverage that the US has brought to the table in order for WORLD leaders to act peacefully with one another.

The door to the presidents door has always been open - and he is now talking to the working class about the lack of cooperation he has had from the current Republican Party being held HOSTAGE by Norquist and the Tea Party. You can't have compromise with the party of NO.

WE THE PEOPLE are signing up for Hillary Clinton now!! She understands the concern regarding the rights of women, the situation of the working immigrants in this country, the quest for an affordable education by the youth in this country, and the need to protect the rights of all citizens regardless of their color, religion, gender, etc.

The Republican Party has failed to show leadership, cooperation, respect for the voting citizens of this country.

Romney lost!

President Obama supports Obamacare - with it's imperfections - and is moving with caution in it's implementation. Each individual citizen needs to become informed on how Obamacare will affect him/her and their respective families. This is not a one size fits all program.

The country will pay its bills.

The rhetoric regarding the 'takers', moochers, etc., etc., etc. is being heard. But other than 'defund' and 'no more taxes - what is the Republican Plan for paying our bills, defending our country, providing for those who honestly need assistance, improving our infrastructure, educating our children (our future)?

Obamacare will be / is being implemented and THE PEOPLE WILL VOTE IN THE NATIONAL ELECTION IN 2016.

We the people - of these UNITED STATES will go forward without blaming one man for some/all of our troubles, but will take a good look at Congress and those who worked for Norquist and not 'we the people'.

Just sharing my point of view - which was held by the majority of voters in the last national election. We citizens are still having difficulty in 'forming a more perfect union' - but we're getting there.

I just wonder if the majority of the country had voted for Mr. Romney - would we respect those who refused to cooperate with MR. ROMNEY because their candidate did not 'win'?

I hope we can move past unhealthily politics.

PTC Observer
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DM - The Preamble

to the Constitution is not the law, it is a preamble, which many of the Founders found repugnant and unnecessary.

As to Mr. Romney, we would have disliked him just as much as we dislike Mr. Obama and disliked Mr. Bush, etc., etc.

We will pay the piper in the end DM, there is no free lunch or health care either. We are a bankrupt country in many ways, we follow the European socialists.

Davids mom
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Preamble
Quote:

an introductory statement; preface; introduction. Synonyms: opening, beginning; foreword, prologue, prelude. Antonyms: epilogue, appendix, conclusion, afterword, closing.
the introductory part of a statute, deed, or the like, stating the reasons and intent of what follows.
a preliminary or introductory fact or circumstance: His childhood in the slums was a preamble to a life of crime.
( initial capital letter ) the introductory statement of the U.S. Constitution, setting forth the general principles of American government and beginning with the words, “We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union. …”

Ah - come on, no where does anyone state that a 'law' is assumed from the words in an introductory statement. It made clear, and was accepted by the Founding Fathers as an introductory statement to the Constitution -not a LAW. The Founding Fathers had disagreements - but they worked together to create a meaningful document. Worked together - I know, when someone is always 'right' it is difficult to work with others who are always wrong. Some of us see the wisdom in trying to work with and respect those with a different point of view.

Quote:

We will pay the piper in the end DM, there is no free lunch or health care either. We are a bankrupt country in many ways, we follow the European socialists.

What is free in the proposed implementation of Obamacare? Who should we follow? Please share the Libertarian plan for delivering this country out of this predicament . Thanks.

PTC Observer
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DM - Which

predicament? We have so many to choose from DM.

If you're speaking of bankruptcy, well there is no solution. It is impossible to pay off the national debt.

Davids mom
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LOL -PTCO

You never know, one of those 'successful' companies was just found guilty of fraud and corruption and fined almost as much as the national debt!!!!!! Where will that money go? :-). Never is a long time,

PTC Observer
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DM - I repeat
S. Lindsey
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PTCO.. I need to take my own advise... Dm doesn't get it...

....and never will. Her kids will though and so will we.

I need to just stop arguing with the fence post...

PTC Observer
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S. Lindsey & DM

I don't debate DM because I know I can convince her of anything. The more she posts, the more she reveals her deeply held philosophy, the more is revealed to the readers of this board.

DM doesn't know it but she is helping a great deal in the argument for individual freedom and against socialist principles.

The problem of course is human nature, it is always easier to take by force of law another's property than to work for your own. As long as government is used for corrupt purposes that are counter to the founding social contract, we are all in peril.

But you know this already don't you Lindsey? We can never expect DM to understand it, she has lived a different life with different ideas and principles.

"Our character is not so much the product of race and heredity as of those circumstances by which nature forms our habits, by which we are nurtured and live." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

S. Lindsey
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PTCO and DM

You are correct.... She is like most in the reborn 1920's styled Progressive Party.

Hillary stated she was a 20's Progressive.

They are couched in good intentions with statements like "We want to make America better" and "We are for the working man".
Sound familiar?

However, the Progressive Party was not all about love and getting along. Helping everyone equally... well they were as long as they controlled the mechanisms of business and everyone danced to their music.

Big Government Progressives like Maxine Waters, Bloomberg and others want to control business and control what you do.

They know best after all.

DM is a product of Government. She is the “Life of Julia”… Government has been good to her, so of course, she promotes it; she loves it and believes Big Government is NO threat to Freedom.

She doesn’t realize that Big Government equates to Big Spending… Big Spending equates to Big Debt… Big Debt equals Bankruptcy.

She really doesn’t think that we have a problem.

That we can just keep on pumping money into a failed system, add MILLIONS of illegal’s into the mix and then add MILLIONS more into an already taxed healthcare system. That system that is so over regulated that in most Doctor’s offices they have more office personnel doing paperwork then they have Medical personnel seeing patients.

Unfortunately it is not a generational thing… Our educational system breeds this Big Government, hands out what’s in it for me types.

The JFK types “Ask not what your Country can do for you…Ask what you can do for your Country” have been debased by the Progressive Party.

John Kerry wrote:

You know, education, if you make the most of it, if you study hard and you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, uh, you, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.

If you are not part of their “Socialist Society” then you are beneath them, not worthy of even talking to.

DM is a good example of this… Remember when we came out against Obama’s policies?

She branded us Racist… In a clear attempt to shut us up..

If you disagreed with her… yep you are a racist too.

If you failed to agree with her… well, your educational status was questioned. Should have finished High School or need to get our money back for college etc…

Yet, when we respond she plays these games of why are we attacking her or we need to just all work together.

The problem is working together in her World is working towards Government dependency and Bankruptcy.

Like I said earlier… She will never see the error of her ideology but her kids will and so will ours and they are going to be blaming us for the debt we have saddled them with and will wonder why we did it.

We are selling our Children’s future for some freebies today… and they see no problem with that…

PTC Observer
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Cicero - Lindsey

"Our character is not so much the product of race and heredity as of those circumstances by which nature forms our habits, by which we are nurtured and live." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

DM has revealed much about her past and how she was raised, if we are nurtured by the state, we are dependent on the state, no one can ever question where DM gets her ideas.

The socialist agenda has nothing whatsoever to do with "helping" people, it has at its roots absolute power. To what end? Wealth. Those in control of the masses, masked by the facade of the common good, will extract wealth for themselves. We simply need to look at the make up of the Senate, House and Executive branches of government. Those will little abilities other than "silver tongues", political skills and self interests have amassed wealth beyond their abilities or official positions. They have duped the people in believing that they too can get something for nothing. Unfortunately the laws of economics, just like the laws of physics cannot be changed. We will all pay the price of our folly.

Cicero also said this:

"Nothing is more unreliable than the populace, nothing more obscure than human intentions, nothing more deceptive than the whole electoral system."

We all know what happened to Rome and Cicero, we are mere children that have learned nothing from history and never will.

Davids mom
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PTCO/SL

Difference does not always denote right and wrong in ones perception of life. This country is composed of humans with different philosophies - and this country, with its successes and failures, respects human difference. I will continue to post and express my point of view, since it is obvious that it is different from those who post regularly. Obviously FC is Republican and conservative. However, the citizens of this county that I have met personally have treated me and my family with respect, appropropriate concern and love. The words that some have used, I have perceived as expressing fear of black Americans . Race, if one has not had the opportunity to get to know the person who resides within the 'body' - is not the only identifier of that person. Segregation has prevented some citizens from getting to know fellow Americans. Men and women who served in an integrated military had an opportunity to become acquainted with the character of their fellow Americans, regardless of the color of their skin. My family has experienced the military before and after integration.

PTCO has expressed a different philosophy than mine, but a non-racist point of view. SL asked me a very telling question; Did I know any 'white people'? To me, this was a surprising assumption - until it was pointed out to me that our life experiences are probably very, very different. I have learned a great deal from these discussions , but more about the 'new south' from my experiences in FC. I'm grateful that I am living to see the beginning of the fulfillment of MLK's dream.

S. Lindsey
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You are going to have to link that one DM

"I asked you did you know any "White People" really... How about providing a link to the conversation DM....

G35 Dude
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Lindsey-No back up needed

DM doesn't need to provide any links. She doesn't have to back up what she says. As for facts. She creates her own. We've all seen her "the majority of people want Obamacare" statements. Confront her with polls that prove her wrong and she'll say "who believes polls". Her statements now say "Obamacare is wanted by many people". And I want to respond by saying "And not wanted by even more". I asked her to tell me how black people were harmed by at large voting in FayCo and all I heard was crickets. I asked how district voting would be good for ALL people of FayCo beyond just putting a black face on the boards and was called childish, immature, and naive. Then I was asked to debate her without any name calling. LOL She has re-worded my posts to make her point. Truth is not necessary. I've seen some out here question whether or not she is a shill for the NAACP. I have to say that I would not be shocked to find out that she was. I love it when at the end of a debate she posts her why can't we all just get along and hold hands while singing cumbaya posts. She can use more words to say nothing than anybody I know. She should have been a politician.

suggarfoot
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priceless!

" I love it when at the end of a debate she posts her why can't we all just get along and hold hands while singing cumbaya posts. She can use more words to say nothing than anybody I know"

and yes, many do think it is a shill for the NAACP

AtHomeGym
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G35 & DM

Why stay in this "debate"-long ago I ceased responding to her posts. You do what you think's right.

G35 Dude
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AHG-You are correct

I rarely respond to her directly any more. My posts that relate to her are usually directed to those that have just come to the realization that talking to her is, and I quote, like arguing with a fence post!!! LOL

S. Lindsey
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Isn't funny how many that don't know squat...

...about the Constitution try to tell the rest of us the meaning of it?

It is also funny that these same people tend to live in bubble and act like the other party was the first to do something they NOW disagree with..

Hey DM has any Democrat EVER said that their goal is to make a President a one-termer?

Old and tired BS Dm..... Propanganda much Dm?

Oh btw...who is threating to shut down the Government?

Davids mom
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SL

But it's so much fun to read your wise and informed responses. You have a different point of view from the majority of Americans that voted in the last national election. Some citizens are quite aware of the point of view of the residents of the red states. Some are most interested in the negativity of those like the PTCO's - who express little hope for Americans, and the provincialism and borderline isolationism of SOME conservatives. The centrists are beginning to win over some of the radical right and radical left. Isn't this country great where disagreement is tolerated and SOME are secure enough to disagree without denigrating?

Quote:

Oh btw...who is threating to shut down the Government?

Santa Claus - he still has that gift in his bag!

S. Lindsey
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Still spreading it Dm?

Didn't think you would answer that last question... Too easy to prove the lie.

But go right ahead DM spread the propaganda and disinformation.... That "we won" thing is coming to bite you in the butt.

What you have won is $17 TRILLION dollars in debt, a real 15% unemployment the slowest recovery ever
the most people on food stamps ever... the most people on disability ever... and a Government run healthcare that
is either going to collapse under it's own weight or have to be propped up by Billions of dollars and massive tax increases.

Yeah DM Hitler, Stalin and Mao all thought they won too.

Davids mom
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SL

SL - your talking point renditions are wearing thin. How did we get in this mess after Clinton left a surplus? Why are we still in this mess? Unhealthy political bull crappy from so-called leaders is one reason. Can you have a discussion without your denigrating remarks? Is your discussion 'style' considered macho? Actually you detract from some good points by your sophomoric use of slang. Good night SL. Obama did win two elections SL. What we have is a similar situation after the Hoover administration. . . .and the US will recover. - as it did after Hoover. What do you consider a lie? This is the second time you've called me a l-----. Please point out my lies. Thank you. (Actually continue your attacks - they are entertaining)

S. Lindsey
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I know...I know... it's all Bush's fault

talking about talking points getting old.

DM wrote:

Please point out my lies

Well Ok..

DM wrote:

Now the ridiculous 'threat' of closing the government.

I ask you who is threatening to shut down the Government.. Still waiting on that one..

Dm wrote:

but as a party, even after some of their suggestions were included in the presented 'bi-partisan' bill - voted against the bill as a party

Bi-Partisan? Could you name a Republican that was involved in the writting of the ACA?

Dm wrote:

World leaders are aware of the leverage that the US has brought to the table in order for WORLD leaders to act peacefully with one another.

World Leaders have summarly dismissed the US and this President... Haven't you been paying attention lately?

Dm wrote:

The door to the presidents door has always been open

Was that before or after all of the closed door meetings on transparency?

DM wrote:

he is now talking to the working class about the lack of cooperation he has had from the current Republican Party being held HOSTAGE by Norquist and the Tea Party. You can't have compromise with the party of NO.

Hey DM tell me what signature legislation was achomplished when the Democrats held ALL THREE BRANCH'S of Government?

DM wrote:

President Obama supports Obamacare - with it's imperfections - and is moving with caution in it's implementation.

You know what you might be right on this one... Must be why he has granted waivers to all of those Big Business types, Unions and the rest of the Federal Government..

Funny how not one Obama will be in on Obamacare...

DM wrote:

The rhetoric regarding the 'takers', moochers, etc., etc., etc. is being heard. But other than 'defund' and 'no more taxes - what is the Republican Plan for paying our bills, defending our country, providing for those who honestly need assistance, improving our infrastructure, educating our children (our future)?

Oh I don't know how about slowing down our spending of our Children's future for a few votes today Dm... That would be nice before we go over $20 TRILLION in DEBT.

DM wrote:

We the people - of these UNITED STATES will go forward without blaming one man for some/all of our troubles

Really DM the Bush blamer her self said that?

DM wrote:

I just wonder if the majority of the country had voted for Mr. Romney - would we respect those who refused to cooperate with MR. ROMNEY because their candidate did not 'win'?

Uhhhh... where you out of the Country from 2000 to 2008 DM? Did your Democrats "Co-operate" with Bush?

Dm wrote:

I hope we can move past unhealthily politics.

Really called anyone a Racist lately?
.

Davids mom
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SL

You really can't be that unaware that you have to answer my point of view with rather inane questions. Let's get off the Bush thing, and take a look at those who signed a pact with Norquist.

Let's look at how some Republicans are backing away from what they considered leverage (shutting down the government) and are trying to come together to appear to be united as a party.

2000 - 2008. Our country was at war - and yes there was cooperation for the American people from members of both parties.

History will share the legacy of Bush, Obama just as the legacies of all of our past presidents are viewed through the lenses of historians.

Thoughtful and yes, frugal, budgetary practices are needed at this time - and if Tea Party followers would deal with those issues and get out of Americas bedrooms; and other social issues which have lost the TP the women vote, the minority vote, and the youth vote, the needed intelligent discussion could continue in this country. We have suffered enough under the 'my way or the highway' attitude of some members of the Republican Party. Local politics, where the majority of people are of one accord will be able to function with their mores and traditions - as long as the rights of individuals are not ignored due to race, gender, and religion. But nationally, Americans are tired of war; tired of these multiple deployments; tired of watching our children being denied the best education today because of the fear of tomorrow. In the fifties with the threat of Sputnik, an Atom bomb attack, etc., funds were spent with the eye on the needs of the future and what would be required of the citizens of the future. Sacrifices were made to fund the future - and these sacrifices paid off - with a surplus left by Clinton for the Bush administration. What happened after that is history. The Republicans, if they ever expect to win the confidence of this country again on the national level, are going to have to serve all citizens, not just the Norquist's of America.

The words that people use to express their point of view are the words that others may see as racist. I have never denied my racist views on some issues. - because unfortunately I have experienced racism and my opinions are based on my experience. I know of no one who has participated in this discussion who is different from the majority in my generation. There are only a very few in this discussion who I feel would treat another differently because of their race. These are the people who still identify an entire race of people with denigrating remarks. Thanks to leaders like MLK and those white citizens who joined in the Civil Rights movement, I KNOW that all white people are not the same. I've even learned that there are some very, very nice white men who drive pick-ups!

I've learned that you are not going to acknowledge that someone may have an opinion different than yours and be just as firm in their understanding as you are in yours. I agree to disagree with you, acknowledge your point of view, and move on.

S. Lindsey
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DM I have no problem with you having a point of view

but don't expect me to not point out that your point of view is warped, twisted and just plain wrong for America.

You believe in Government... OK. You are misplacing your trust but that's your problem not mine.

DM it is simple we have a problem in America...much larger then you and I... Democrats and Republicans.

That problem DM is staring us right in the face and only one of us recognizes it. I honestly don't know why you can't it is truly baffling.

But like one certain blogger here said we can spend and spend and it will have no consequences.

You, as much as, said the same thing over and over.

You had a problem with Bush creating his own little Wars...BUT...yet have no issues with Obama doing the same.

You had a problem with Bush when you thought he was listening in to our calls...BUT... yet have no problem when you find out that this President really is and reading the emails to boot.

You had a problem with Bush creating a $9 Trillion dollar debt....BUT...yet have no problem with Obama creating a $17 Trillion dollar debt.

You had a problem with Bush creating partnerships with business....BUT...yet when Obama actually does so with GM, GE and many others are strangely silent.

Dm I don't have a problem with you per..se.. I have a problem with your points of view and hipocrisy.

Davids mom
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SL
Quote:

DM I have no problem with you having a point of view
but don't expect me to not point out that your point of view is warped, twisted and just plain wrong for America.

If we disagree with one another's point of view, are you more of a man to call my point of view warped, twisted, and just plain wrong - or would you be considered more lucid if you were able to point out WHY you are not warped, twisted, and just plain wrong? Remember the differences in point of view between Americans in the North and South in the 1800's?

Quote:

You believe in Government... OK. You are misplacing your trust but that's your problem not mine.

I believe in the people of the United States - you believe, IMO, in the all mighty dollar and those who control it.

Quote:

DM it is simple we have a problem in America...much larger then you and I... Democrats and Republicans.

The problem is with those who have felt entitled because of their gender and skin color - and now realize that others who are unlike them have gifts to offer this country- and are entitled to have the opportunity to reap all the benefits of their hard work - regardless of where they live, their gender, their skin color, or their belief system. I see you as part of the problem.

Quote:

That problem DM is staring us right in the face and only one of us recognizes it. I honestly don't know why you can't it is truly baffling.

Articulate the problem SL.

Quote:

But like one certain blogger here said we can spend and spend and it will have no consequences.

Budgets, funds, are a means to achieving goals. If you have funds, but poorly educated and unhealthy citizens, a failing infrastructure, an inability to cooperate with other inhabitants on the planet - what good are the funds? Educated citizens, healthy citizens, an infrastructure that benefits both urban and rural areas - can be achieved as we cooperate in building our financial foundation; bringing jobs back to the US; etc., etc., etc. Americans can do both - rebuild our financial foundation and take steps to have an educated and healthy citizenry.

Quote:

You had a problem with Bush creating his own little Wars...BUT...yet have no issues with Obama doing the same.

OK. View the media output of your choice. The 'wars' are de-escalating ; world leaders are talking to each other.
History will deal with Bush and Obama. I have a problem with the leaders who are elected by local communities and refuse to work together for the entire country.

I always wonder why you can't get beyond the Obama/Bush comparisons and discuss rather than infer regarding other 'problems'.

Problems that are being discussed:

National security
Cost of living
Loss of employment - and family homes
Education

If those who represent me in Congress are not involved in finding solutions to these problems - I'm supporting those who are, makes no difference to me who they represent or what party they are affiliated with.

To those who are still denigrating Obama and/or Bush - I feel all that has been said covers their past actions. . .and it's time to move on. You appear to be stuck in 'let's not support Obama. That's your right, and I respect that. How about looking at the entire picture of our problem. Are the American people willing to sacrifice AND spend what is necessary to insure National Security; Health; Education for Americans of the future . .or keep their money in their pockets (no new taxes ) and watch our country go down the tubes. Any honest business man will tell you it takes money to keep a business afloat. If the business (country) fails - because of poor security, sickness, ignorance - what have you gained with your money still in your pocket? (No customers!)

Hypocrisy - thy cousin is ignorance.

S. Lindsey
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btw...

Noticed you failed to answer a single question asked of you in response to YOUR statements...

SHOCKER

suggarfoot
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is Tyrone back with the speed traps again?

Didn't know where else to put this. 2 people in a matter of a week have complained to me of tickets while they were doing the speed limit. Last one asked for copy of where they were clocked speeding and they wouldn't give it to them. Any thoughts

Cyclist
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Tyrone Speed Limit

Came through there yesterday from the beach towing "the box". I didn't see any police presence on Tyrone Road but when I drive through any small town I make damn sure I'm below the posted speed limit.

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Cy: You bet

Especially Tyrone where a few years ago they lowered speed limits on some roads and the city council stated they were doing it in order to raise revenue.

Davids mom
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Deleted by poster

.

stranger than f...
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More Fuzzy Logic from Ms. Willis

Ms. Willis argues forcefully that Congressional representatives have a responsibility to be “healthy” and defund Obamacare because this is the will of the majority of Americans. Despite the fact that the law was passed by Congress, signed by the President, upheld by the Supreme Court, and has withstood over 50 efforts to repeal it, the House of Representatives would be remiss if they did not shut down the government to prevent an unpopular law from moving forward.

Perhaps she would like to apply her logic broadly. The vast majority of Americans support more laws controlling guns and gun ownership:

http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm

I suppose that a “healthy” Congress would ignore Supreme Court rulings on gun rights, throw a temper tantrum, and shut down the government until the majority gets its way.

With erudite conservative columnists like George Will and David Brooks, why must The Citizen publish inconsistent rubbish by Bonnie Willis and the Grove City stooges?

G35 Dude
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Not Fuzzy at all

All Ms Willis is saying is that the Republicans in Congress are doing what the people that sent them there want them too. To do otherwise would be dereliction of duty in my mind. This bill was passed by a Congress that didn't even read it first. To me any politician that does that should be removed from office. Starting with Ms pass it so we can find out whats in it Pelosi. And it has held up only because of the difficulty of repealing any law. As for the Supreme Court ruling all it did was uphold Congress's right to levy a tax. That is after our "leader" assured us that it was not a tax. Nothing fuzzy here except Obama and this law.

maximus
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What's fuzzy about it?

Congress and the president don’t have the authority to change or overturn the 2nd amendment regardless of any polls. They do, however, have the authority to change, throw out, defund or do whatever else they want to obumblecare. And if that’s what people want, why shouldn’t they? It doesn’t matter that the “…law was passed by Congress, signed by the President, upheld by the Supreme Court…”

It will obviously take a different president, though. This one couldn’t care less about anything but his own pathetic legacy.

stranger than f...
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So Let's Take our Ball and Go Home

Since Congress can't change the law - they've tried to repeal it over 50 times now - the Republicans will keep all funding bills from being presented in any manner that will pass the Senate and be signed by this President.

In the same manner, the moderates in Congress could demand gun control legislation. If they didn't get it, they could refuse to cooperate on any other legislation - in effect, throwing a temper tantrum and shutting down the government.

Ms. Willis calls this a "healthy" strategy. This is a childish strategy that even conservatives like Mitch McConnell recognize as fruitless. Worst, it makes conservatives look like silly children instead of mature leaders.

BTW, Congress can and has written many weapon control laws concerning background checks, types of weapons one can possess, ammunition issues, etc. I am not advocating gun control here, merely using it as an example.

maximus
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"Mature leaders"...

...never would have passed such an obamanation. This is probably the last chance to stop it. I'm not buying the arguments from some of the "establishment" republicans that obamacare will collapse on itself. They'll just keep shoveling more and more money into to keep it alive. To paraphrase Reagan - the closest thing on this earth to immortality is a government program.

And I just heard Mitch McConnell saying that all they needed were "5 brave democrats" to cross the aisle. At least he's pretending to go along with the effort.

S. Lindsey
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Tell me STF where does the Federal Government...

...get the authority to do anything in reference to Guns?

stranger than f...
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The gun issue was merely an analogy

My point is that Ms. Willis makes a ridiculous argument to make her case. I could have used any other example in which the majority of the electorate does not agree with a law.

Davids mom
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SL
Quote:

Tell me STF where does the Federal Government...
...get the authority to do anything in reference to Guns?

From the will of the people that they represent in Congress - as long as the actions follow the guidelines as found in The Constitution and as interpreted by the Supreme Court.

PTC Observer
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DM - The Constitution

The Constitution has a thing called the Bill of Rights DM. Those Rights are not granted by government, they are Rights endowed by God, not man. Your flawed thinking was why many, during the ratification process, didn't want a Bill of Rights included in the Constitution. They said someday people would interpret this listing of Rights as a governmental "grant". Congress cannot "grant" Rights, government is there to protect them and insure that they are not abridged.

S. Lindsey
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PTCO...DM is indicative of the masses...

...that believe Government grants us Rights. She is not alone. We see many even on this blog
that think Government and SCOTUS is the here to tell us what our Rights are.

We don't need Government or the Progressives for that, in fact, I am not sure what we need from them at all
other then what is stipulated in that Constitution.

What she and others forget... What Government gives it can also take away.

G35 Dude
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Lindsey-Government & Takers
Quote:

What Government gives it can also take away.

Another way of saying that is: "Anything that the government gives to one it must first take from another." But takers don't care where their gifts come from.

S. Lindsey
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No G35 they don't....

... it is just part of Obama's stash.

SPQR
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not alone

the dumbing down process has insured that the DM mentality is now mainstream.
so sad but I guess inevitable.

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