Starr’s Mill graduation rate at 93%, FCHS at 78%

Fayette County schools customarily enjoy very high graduation rates and those rates rose for some again in 2013. The graduation rate last school year was 87.3 percent compared to the state average of 71.5 percent.

“Graduation rates for the class of 2013 released by the Georgia Dept. of Education show that Fayette’s four-year graduation rate is up two percentage points over last year, from 85.53 percent in 2012 to 87.3 percent in 2013,” said school system spokesperson Melinda Berry-Dreisbach.

Fayette’s graduation rate looks even better when compared to the state average of 71.5 percent for 2013.

“The school system has the second highest graduation rate in the state among large school systems,” Berry-Dreisbach said.

McIntosh High, Starr’s Mill High and Fayette County High schools all increased their graduation rates with Starr’s Mill having the highest jump from 87 percent in 2012 to 93 percent in 2013. Graduation rates for McIntosh High and Fayette County High are 92 percent and 78 percent, respectively. McIntosh had a one percentage point increase while Fayette County High had a three percentage point increase over last year.

Whitewater High remained the same at 92 percent and Sandy Creek High decreased two percentage points from 84 percent in 2012 to 82 percent in 2013.

Berry-Dreisbach said graduation rates from the past three years were calculated using the four-year adjusted cohort graduation rate, the formula that the U.S. Dept. of Education requires all 50 states to use.

The four-year adjusted cohort graduation rate defines the cohort based on when a student first becomes a freshman. The rate is calculated using the number of students who graduate within four years and includes adjustments for student transfers.

Graduation rates in descending order by school are as follows:

Starr’s Mill — 93 percent.

Whitewater — 92 percent.

McIntosh — 92 percent.

Sandy Creek — 82 percent.

Fayette County High — 78 percent.

rmoc
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Again North Part of county issues

Well, FC and SC have much lower graduation rates, surprise!

ptctrader2010
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This is an "irrelevant" article

Graduation should be 100%.... Anything less is a failure of: 1.) Parenting 2.) Teaching environment ( take off the shackles of anticipated law suit and let the teachers/administrators teach and apply discipline where needed. and 3.) Motivation of the individual.

No excuses.. No mamby pamby crap. We seem to get children through elementary school.... and then middle school.... WHY can we not "complete" the project?

Sorry.... the liberal... litigious society has created a horrible situation here. And guess who is the victim??? The student... and the tax-paying society.

Merry Christmas.

stranger than f...
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You Preach It PTC Trader

Those liberals have completely eviscerated any reasonable attempt to educate our youth. I was just saying to a friend the other day how much higher our graduation rate would be if we beat the kids more. Every kid needs an evil P.E. teacher who lives to terrorize those 9th graders and keep them in line. It sure worked for our generation.

Then we can get rid of free lunches for those namby-pamby poor kids. Everyone knows that being hungry is a natural consequence of your parents’ irresponsibility. Why should conservative tax payers be responsible for making sure you are fed when your sperm donor is such a useless piece of trash? Your parents’ deficits are ruining our test scores.

And then there is the obvious paucity of motivation among low-achieving students. Even though graduation rates are the highest they have been since 1974, nevertheless, we all know that this is in spite of the left wing education system that had rather waste our tax dollars on empirically researched strategies to educate children rather than the tried-and-true shaming techniques that worked for us back in the day.

If we work hard enough, we can return to the Stone Age. Let’s keep the faith.

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Faith and Family

The "Stone Age" as you put it... had values that seem to be unattainable today. So far, the empirically researched strategies have lead us to be a world class loser in skills.

Yeah.. I will take the Stone Age. and Merry Christmas if your politically correct, liberalness can endure it.

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We all make mistakes
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So far, the empirically researched strategies have lead us to be a world class loser in skills.

Improve the education for our future - and stop proving that we are failing our students with inane arguments based on politics and not common sense.

PTC Observer
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STF - Yes

indeed, the government schools are doing a wonderful job, that's why we're exporting most of our jobs to those low educational areas of the world and the really "smart" jobs are just being gobbled up by all the bright government schooled kids. Problem is those kids are in a different country.

Government schooled kids have those foreign students fleeing for the exits, along with the jobs. Don't believe it? Just go visit Ga. Tech.

Just keep this in mind, there are more honor roll kids graduating from college in India each year than all kids enrolled in US colleges. Yep, government schools are doing great!

Who knows, all those students graduating in high percentages, can go to work in the service industry one day. Maybe on a cruise liner, owned by the Chinese, cleaning toilets. They'll have the high distinction of graduating in very high percentages from excellent US government schools.

Too bad we live in a global economy, it's it?

stranger than f...
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Just Calling Out a Simpleton

My tongue-in-cheek reply isn’t a suggestion that public schools are immaculate; rather that Trader’s assessment is ridiculously uninformed. Trader laments that graduation rates underachieve 100% and blames politically liberal policies, pining for the “good old days.” Unfortunately for him, facts belie his suppositions. High School graduation rates in the U.S.A. are at a 35 year high now. I guess that he doesn’t remember that the good old days were just old and not so good.

I share the concern that American students fail to avail themselves of the superior educational attainments within their grasps. Unlike the Trader, I understand that the reasons for these deficits are complex with boons and banes from both conservative and liberal educational polices.

I welcome empirically based solutions without regard for politic stripe. I have been impressed with math results from the Khan Academy as well as the “School for One” which bases educational instruction on algorithms like those used for Pandora music.

As you point out, success in a global economy requires skills that differ from even the recent past. Name-calling and simplistic solutions hinder the process of discovering successful strategies.

PTC Observer
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STF - Mine too

was tongue a cheek, the fact is that most Americas are myopic and live in their little world of video games, Disneyland and football. I would venture to say that the average American could tell you the statistics on nearly every pro team player for their home team, but they could name the enumerated protections under The Bill of Rights. Nor could they give you an idea of what the proper role of government was as envisioned by our Founding Fathers.

What has brought us to this state of knowledge?

Government schools

Why?

Because Government doesn't do anything well, not because there is some larger "conspiracy". No, the American people simply want government to take care of them. This is foolhardy at the least and dangerous at the worst. It appears based on outcomes pouring in around us that it is more dangerous than foolhardy.

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Agree with you PTC Observer

And while we are at it... I wonder how many of the 93% know who we fought in the Revolutionary War... Since that is a trivia question that baffles our 'on the street" voting public. Yeah, the government form of education has brought us a long way... I think the educational system of the 50's was far more efficient in an environment that had boundaries and discipline.

In my last "working" job before retirement, I worked for a national staffing firm providing IT contractors to major business here in Atlanta. When we posted a job... we could not get American-educated applicants. No Skills.

I rest my case.

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The American Educational System

Has taken a beating. Why? IMO, the downgrading of the teaching profession; the lack of funds provided to public schools ; the poor monitoring of effectiveness of the programs that are funded by state and federal government. ; the lack of parent involvement and parent education offered to public school families; the lack of upgrading the curriculum for future teachers.
Georgia is listed at the bottom of the 50 states in academic achievement. Yet businesses are coming to Atlanta . Is that because of our unskilled, cheap work force? How are the private schools scoring in Georgia ? The Khan instruction is providing enlightenment to many families and teachers throughout the country, yet we have some districts in Georgia who question the use of 'online instruction' or the use of 'technology ' in the classroom. Some want to return to the Stone Age. Reality check: we don't live in the Stone Age. Georgia is a beautiful state; friendly citizens; -why is the academic achievement at the 'bottom'? Why the distrust of 'charter schools', where parent involvement is usually better than in some public schools? My comments are not tongue in cheek, but an expression of my perception of 'some' school districts in Georgia. I welcome a correction to my perception.

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Education is a joke but Respect is the problem

The Stone Age was a good time for education. I was in school in the late 60s and 70s. We feared and respected our teachers and parents (yes, we were not angels but were respectful enough to fear getting caught doing bad things)
I had a great Gym Teacher in Elementary school, if you were goofing off or not paying attention one of her Keds would be removed and whoop, aimed at you. None of us would ever think of crying to our folks because they would support the teacher in that we deserved it. I still remember my principal dragging my little sister down the hall when she threw her lunch at the lunch monitor.

I had a sister who is 16 years younger than I and saw the difference in the level of respect afforded to teachers and parents in the 90s which has gotten worse over the decades.Kids and Parents threaten lawsuits if their little darlings are disciplined. Special Interests take over our school
curriculums and no one learns the skills necessary for surviving in our current economy. The media stresses that children have "rights" to the point that many parents fear discipline...Yes, they have rights to be fed and have shelter and do what their parents say!

The problem is worse in the Black Community but is also a problem in the White Community, many single parents with multiple children from different absentee fathers. Even if the single mother is trying her hardest outside influences are stronger against her. It is also a problem in families
that are intact, the internet and tv discourage kids from being real kids and turns them into little adults without the maturity to manage adult issues.

The dumbing down of society is also a problem, Americans are so focused on media and toys that they never read and the love of learning has been reduced. Many Americans know the Kardashians but not who the Vice President is..

Davids mom
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Rmoc

Thanks for sharing. I was teaching during the 60's and 70's. I was in Los Angeles during the '65 Riots'. No schools were touched. Why? Maybe respect, maybe not. What I saw afterwards under the name of free speech, was the glorification of violent behavior. The street thug and the corporation thug did what they could to take advantage of a sick outcome of apartheid in the US. This 'get what you can while the getting is good' is prevalent today throughout human society. Those who tried to reach a goal of equal opportunity through non-violence were maligned. As we try to demonstrate the words in our Constitution, there are thugs on the sidelines 'radicals' who are still supporting apartheid in this country. We are 'behind in educational achievement' for many reasons, one being this 'skin color' notion of supremacy. Apartheid is based on skin color. Mandela and MLK were well educated. Their God-given gifts as well as the product of the use of these gifts through their hard work were seen as a threat to certain segments of society. Your view of the situation is based on a reality that others are not able to comprehend because of their false notion of supremacy based on skin color. Fortunately, most Americans see reality from your point of view.

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DM why is it about Apatheid

I made a point about respect and the causes of the downturn of our schools. You can throw all the money in the world at failing schools but until we get responsible families with children who respect the need for education and their educators we will get problems with the schools and kids. The thugs have taken over many of those in the Black communities and the ignorant in the poor white communties. Look at our tv and see what folks are watching white trash like Honey Boo Boo and the rich trash like the Kardashians. This ignorance is even taken over some of the middle class, lots of upper middle class parents are seeing their children drop to the lower class through laziness, out-of-wedlock parenthood, and drugs. If many of our citizens lived in an area where most of the criminals were white they would complain about the trailer trash in the county. It just happens that we live in an area where the majority of the criminals seem to be black which is partially because blacks make up a large majority of some of the surrounding areas and the huge numbers of single parent households in those areas.

What do you suggest to cure this? I know many educators who have quit over the last decade because it isn't worth the pain. The ones who stick it out are either not able to function anywhere else or should be nominated for sainthood. Let's start charging parents with Educational Neglect? Let's stop coddling the disruptive and students that bring down the rest of the class? Let's stop rewarding students for being mediocre? Let's stop focusing on crap that won't help the kids in the real world?

Now from a money perspective ..how about homework hives?? This is an afterschool program that focuses on children who have fallen behind and they stay for an extra 2 or 3 hours until they get their grades back and is not optional. Yes, it is a punishment but heck it should would motivate...

Davids mom
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Apartheid/Jim Crow

These sick practices are one of the reasons we are even discussing the problems of poor education/ poverty/ etc. rather then the actions of parents, children, communities in the context of skin color. The problems you correctly highlight are found in any community where there is poor parent supervision, poor support of schools and teachers from local communities, unemployment, single parent homes. Middle class blacks run from 'poor white trash' and middle class whites run from poor black trash. In this discussion, some have refused to achknowledge that all blacks are not criminals and/or poor. This has been insulting to the 20% of minorities who live in FC having the same financial and educational statistics as 80% of the population. My experience in the past 10 years is that those who have moved to Fayette County enjoy the new integrated south.

Solutions: in the inner cities programs such as you suggest have beeen cut
(Budget, etc - while we spend more on prisons which offer no organized rehabilitation.)
Check the recidivism rate - Black Muslims/ Aryan Brotherhood

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rmoc

What you say is true, and the way it is handled in school is a shame. There is little punishment for misbehavior. Parents don't stand behind the teachers.

When my kid was in the 3rd grade and I worked about 30 miles, hard driving traffic away. I got a call from the school, not to come get him, but a middle of a work day that totally rattled me. Single Mom, can't be in 2 places at once. I solved that by telling my child that night if I ever had to leave work and come to the school....I would whip his butt in front of the whole class....and leave him there for the rest of the day! His big green eyes got as big as saucers and I never had another call...cause he knew I would do it! Why can't these other parents at least do that? Support the teachers.

PTC Observer
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Stone Age - DM

Your opinion has some merit DM, and it suggests that there was a change from one thing to another. In this you are correct, there has been a change. The disrespect for the teaching profession. Unfortunately, teachers work for the wrong boss....the State (aka government). Teaching is not respected because the teaching profession has been marginalized by the state. An education degree, is mass produced. Mass education, requires large numbers of marginal teachers, which gives us marginalized results in educating our children.

Now, I know that there will be a howl of objections from the teaching profession at this observation. Nonetheless, this is my opinion. Teachers, good teachers are still out there, but they are underpaid, fear retribution by administrators, hamstrung by state curriculum and terrorized by their students that don't want to be in the classroom. All of these factors are in fact addressed by charter schools, a concept that has been fought tooth and nail by marginal teachers and political hacks.

Now, about parental involvement, let's see what's changed there? Can you guess DM? Why don't we have more parental involvement? Could it be, that they have left it to the State? Could it be that everything, including the future of their children are left to be decided by the State?

If we chuck personal responsibility for our children, the results will be what they currently are DM.

So, I guess there were things in the stone age that had some merit. Of course "separate but equal" was not one of them, a concept promoted by a corrupt State.

Davids mom
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PTCO - corrupt state?
Quote:

Of course "separate but equal" was not one of them, a concept promoted by a corrupt State.

Come on PTCO. Those were our Founding Fathers. (TheState) They allowed a business founded on the basis of degrading humans to the status of animals to flourish so that the economy of a certain part of our country could flourish . We are a government of the people, by the people, for the people. Fantastic words! We're still trying to put those words into,practice. Meanwhile, the rest of the world, majority people of color, are looking at how we implement those words and for whom. We're being outclassed by other 'worlds' in education. . . . and some in this discussion appear to want to return to 'separate but equal'. When we allow all Americans to be respected as Americans based on their accomplishments /contributions and not have skin color as an identifier? Some think all whites are represented by Limbaugh and Beck and all blacks represented by Jackson and Sharpton. The rest of the world sees all Americans represented by Obama - and applaud us for trying to overcome our practice of apartheid. Obama is not a king. In 2016, another American will be elected to represent this country.
Let's hope that Americans can unite behind the new president to tackle our problems with the economy, our infrastructure, our education, our immigration problems, etc. A survey taken by an independent organization (does one exist?) showed that most Americans want affordable healthcare and are happy with certain elements of this plan already implented. Most Americans questioned supported the Affordable Heakthcare Act. Many surveyed wanted to repeal Obamacare. Knowledgeable electorate at work. (Obamacare and the Affordable Healthcare Act are one in the same). Oh well.

Davids mom
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Stone Age Concepts/civil rights

Corrected by American citizens of various political persuasions who worked together for fair, unbiased treatment of all citizens. Americans have turned their 'government over to a select few. If the government does not represent you, elect leaders who do. Destroying an educational system that allows one to 'rise' is a necessary strategy for those who perceive themselves as the ruling class. Our current 'leaders', if they worked together on areas where there is agreement might be able to find some solutions to our myriad of problems. The uneducated are perceived as easy to control, until they revolt, There are good teachers in American classrooms. We need more! There are capable students in American classrooms. We need to treasure them with guidance and respect. (Role models) Many good teachers, capable students, adult role models are here in Fayette County. Americans grow with change, they don't succumb to it!

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DM-How?
Quote:

If the government does not represent you, elect leaders who do.

How can I? The dems and the repubs own the election process. Both are corrupt. Jessie Ventura said politics is like wrestling. In public they both say what we want hear. In private it's a different matter.

Davids mom
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G35

VOTE and then pay attention to who your elected leaders respond to. We don't elect them to run the country, we elect them to represent us! If your representative is representing you, but other representatives represent a different point of view, we have a process to deal with this situation . You are well aware of how our Constitution guides legislative action. Those who represent the Dems and the Repubs in this current Congress have been responding to other than the 'people' IMO.

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DM

Please re-read my original post and think about what it says.

Davids mom
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G35

Gosh - even when I agree with you - you seem to need to have a 'snippy' comeback. Interesting and enlightening.

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DM

Not to be snippy but what I'm trying to say is that the Repubs and Dems are in control. You won't fix this by voting for their people. They are not going to support anyone that will upset their apple cart.

PTC Observer
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Uneducated - DM??

Everyone is educated in America, right?

You don't know, what you don't know.

If I am the State, I can call you "educated".

American teachers, the good ones, are being cheated by the State.
Good students are being cheated by the State.
Good parents are being cheated by the State.

The masses are easy to control, when you control what those minds know.

"Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past." - George Orwell

Davids mom
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PTCO
Quote:

Everyone is educated in America, right?

Wrong! And therein is the problem.

PTC Observer
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DM - tongue and cheek

Tongue and cheek, but the low percentage of illiterate people is not the real danger to our society, it's people that think they have answers to social ills and want to use collective State force to shape society to their misguided "vision"

These elitists are taught that they can manage social interaction better than the free exchange of ideas in the marketplace, that is they that have the answers.

They were taught that government is the primary tool for advancing their "vision" for collective "good", via government schools. History works against this failed approach, so naturally history is minimized by Government schools.

Merry Christmas DM to you and yours.

Davids mom
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PTCO

LOL! MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YOU AND YOURS ALSO! It's a beautiful day in Fayetteville, GA!! (Thank heavens the state intervened in MLK's vision') When citizens abuse their 'rights' - someone with integrity has to step in. Hopefully that 'someone' is our elected leaders - but history shows when that doesn't happen, the people revolt either at the ballot box or in the streets. Mankind, if they could only realize what the impact of treating your neighbor as yourself has on PEACE. . .we would be in a better situation on this planet. :-)

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Response to DM

Ironically, blacks as a whole would be better off had the state not intervened at gunpoint to make MLK's vision a reality. By every measure - increased crime, cultural degradation, incarceration, drug abuse, and illegitimacy - blacks find themselves in far more dire straits today than 50 years ago. Negritude today is a violent and self-destructive culture.

Black education followed a similar pattern. First we were told integration of the schools would change everything. Then we were told the voting rights act would bring Kennedy's vision of a color blind society to fruition. Then black power was needed, two summers of riots were needed, Black Is Beautiful ad nauseam was needed. Then we were told Head Start would turn imbeciles into geniuses. Then they said forced busing had to be introduced. School uniforms, afrocentric schools, role models were all needed. Then they said IQ tests had to go. Then they said standardized tests were racist and had to go. Then the president declared, "No Child Left Behind!" And now they're saying Core Curriculum will FINALLY close the gap. It has been more than sixty years (that's three generations) since the great task of black education en masse was begun, and the gap has remained. Even the tectonic plates beneath the continents have moved more than the learning gap between the races. Can any of these students spell "immutable?"

While China, Korea and other aspiring world powers focus their students on mastering science, math, and business administration, our schools seek to inculcate our students with nonsensical hyphenated study programs. This country's entire education system has become a joke.

Davids mom
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PTC Avenger- really?
Quote:

Ironically, blacks as a whole would be better off had the state not intervened at gunpoint to make MLK's vision a reality. By every measure - increased crime, cultural degradation, incarceration, drug abuse, and illegitimacy - blacks find themselves in far more dire straits today than 50 years ago. Negritude today is a violent and self-destructive culture.

How would you have stopped the water hoses, the dogs, the lynchings, the murders, etc., etc., etc., being committed by that non- violent segment of 'white society'? I'm living in the coming of fruition of the 'dream'in Georgia, a state that when I was 11, there was 'no room in the inn'. My parents could not stay in a hotel, eat in a restaurant, etc., etc., etc. in Georgia. (Consequently, neither could I ). Your un-American view of history is being overcome. Your false sence of superiority is apparent. Your use of 'talking points' by avowed hate groups is noted. You are the new 'minority ' - and you and your 'ilk' will not be ignored - but studied carefully as an example of what is wrong in the United States today.

Love your neighbor as yourself and do unto others - etc. Christians are not putting a skin color determinate on these directions today. We are improving!

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PTC Avenger

So true, we have ruined the schools and wasted 60 years that this country could have gone forward.

Whites do not ask for test to be changed so we can appear as smart as Asians, etc.

As long as we try to MAKE everyone 'equal' it is never going to work.

It is one thing that has not only ruined the schools, but the work force.

Davids mom
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Suggarfoot
Quote:

As long as we try to MAKE everyone 'equal' it is never going to work.

The term is equal opportunity. Given equal opportunity, there are those who surpassed many whites - long before affirmative action.

Maybe ignorance is the reason for : making it illegal to teach slaves to read ; inferior education requirements for 'colored schools'; lower pay for citizens of color; the burning of minority businesses and towns, etc., etc., etc. in order to save the false premise of white superiority. To acknowledge the incorrectness of supremacy of skin color (regardless of color) is not hate or love. It is growth.

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Those Halcyon Adolescent years of the 1950’s

How Trader yearns for the idyllic Eisenhower years when public schools ran so much more efficiently and disciplined adolescents achieved and behaved so admirably. This never really existed, but it produces such a grand illusion for old-timers. The percentage of students graduating from high school in the 1950’s was smaller than today:

http://www.safeandcivilschools.com/research/graduation_rates.php

The number of teen pregnancies was over double the current rate:

http://www.thenationalcampaign.org/resources/pdf/TBR_1940-2006.pdf

Of course, if you were white and male, things weren’t so bad. But if you were Black or female, you endured inadequate segregated institutions and severely limited post-secondary options. At least no one had dreadlocks!

And Trader, the U.S.A. makes up only 4.5% of the world’s population. Why should it surprise anyone that there are some very bright IT experts in the other 95% of the world?

I guess sometimes one can recite Revolutionary War history but perform much less proficiently when recalling the events of the 20th Century. Facts can be so pesky.

PTC Observer
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STF - Interesting

that graduation rates were lower in the 1950's, assuming that "standards" were the same this is very troubling, however if the bar has been lower, well then it's another matter.

The fact that Revolutionary history is not taught in our schools and the philosophical underpinnings of the country ignored, is more than disturbing. Given this, the fact that most people in the United States can't identify their own representatives much less the key events of the 20th Century is not surprising at all.

"Facts are stubborn things", John Adams a lawyer in defense of British Troops that killed six patriots including the first Black patriot casualty on the road to independence, Crispus Attucks.

suggarfoot
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truth about Cripus Attucks...a drunk with nothing better to do?

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/bostonmassacre/keyfigures....

clearly not a hero, just someone glamorized to bend the truth

"Others, such as John Adams, saw Attucks as the rabble-rousing villain whose "mad behavior" as responsible for the carnage of March 5, 1770."
..............
Adams, who became the second American president, defended the soldiers in court against the charge of murder. Building on eyewitness testimony that Attucks had struck the first blow, Adams described him as the self-appointed leader of "the dreadful carnage." In Adams' closing argument, Attucks became larger than life, with "hardiness enough to fall in upon them, and with one hand took hold of a bayonet, and with the other knocked the man down." The officer in charge and five of his men were acquitted, which further inflamed the public."

Was Attucks a black drunk, who, when drunk, bullied?(The historical society seem to think so and didn't want a statue put up for him) And if that didn't get him his way....resorted to violence? Of course not....we know they don't do that don't we. We have only to read the daily papers to know that doesn't happen.

PTC Observer
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Suggarfoot - Indeed

they were all drunk, not just Attucks. The question is why were they drinking? Why were the British Troops there? Why did the Boston Massacre happen at all?

So, in striking the first blow against these troops, was it Attucks that started the road to independence? After all, someone had to start it all, right? Mr. Adams, in the testimony that you quote was the defense lawyer for the accused British Troops, it was his job to disparage Attucks and the others as well. They were all drunken braggarts.

The role that rum, whiskey, and other such spirits played in the start of the Revolution cannot be underestimated, what started in the pubs of New England spread like wildfire and into the pulpits of nearly every church in the Colonies. Remember that Samuel Adams, President Adams' second cousin was both the father of American republicanism AND a brew master. He was also a protege of John Hancock, the first President and clever smuggler. Yes indeed Suggarfoot all of them suspicious characters.

Maybe even bullies.....that resorted to violence.....that eventually gave you the opportunity to write your opinions here....your Right of Free Speech. Thank God for men such as these....even the unarmed man that struck the first blow! Who was also the first killed with a shot to the face & chest, what a bully.

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PTCO

Again, your ideas are off the mark. Why don't you give credit and truth where it is due. There was a child, Christopher Seider, killed by a customs employee on February 22, 1770. Seider's death was glorified in the Boston Gazette, and his funeral was one of the largest in Boston. The killing and subsequent propaganda inflamed tensions, with gangs of colonists looking for soldiers to harass, and soldiers also looking for the same.

The Crispus Attucks variation, was produced right before the American Civil War as a symbol for abolitionists.

The story of what happened goes... Private Hugh White, a British soldier, stood on guard duty outside the Custom house on King Street. A young wigmaker's apprentice named Edward Garrick, yelled out to a British officer, Captain-Lieutenant John Goldfinch, that Goldfinch had not paid a bill due to Garrick's employer. Goldfinch had paid, and ignored the insult. Private White, however did not, and called out to Garrick that he should be more respectful of the officer. Garrick exchanged insults with Private White, who left his post, challenged the boy, and struck him on the side of the head with his musket. As Garrick cried in pain, one of his companions, Bartholomew Broaders, began to argue with White. This attracted a larger crowd. Henry Knox, a 19-year-old bookseller (who would later serve as a general in the revolution), came upon the scene and warned White, "if he fired he must die for it. Over fifty gathered around White, Crispus Attucks up front, throwing objects at the sentry and challenging him to fire. White, tooka somewhat safer position on the steps of the Custom House, asked British runner to get help. 8 soldiers arrived and pushed through the crowd and formed a circle around Hugh White who they hoped to get out with a show of force. They had been ordered not to shoot, but the drunk crowd knew this and started to bully, daring them to shoot. Crisp hit Montgomery in the chest with a club and knocked his gun out of his hand. It was the second time he had been hit trying to get the other soldier back to the garrison and defuse the crowd. Montgomery retrieved his gun and ordered the others to shoot. Crisp was not the only to die, but simply the 1st as he was standing over Montgomery. I'm sure Montgomery knew since he was flat of his back, it was him or Crisp. Also killed were Samuel Gray, Samuel Maverick, James Caldwell, and Patrick Carr.
If you, in some twisted way want to think of a drunk mob with Crisp being the lead bully, as ...your...salvation...have at it. The reason we fought the revolutionary was NOT because of outrage over soldiers firing into a mob that was trying to kill them. It was fought for many reasons, and certainly not over Crisp. It has been said that GB exported the army that fought against them in the Rev War. For many had been treated very badly there and stood their ground here against further abuse.

I have several ancestors who fought in the Rev war, none were at the head of a drunk mob, thank you.

PTC Observer
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Suggarfoot - I won't

quibble with you SF, there were six men killed that night, one was Crispus Attucks, we also know that it was an instant death, as his and the other bodies were laid out in the Boston snow by the townspeople.

So, what's your point? You don't agree that a drunken mob enticed the British Troops to fire? The fact is SF, the use of rum, ale and other spirits were part of the history of the Revolution.

For more on this subject, read:

The First American Revolution: Before Lexington and Concord by Ray Raphael. You will find there a compelling argument that the roots of the Revolution occurred in Western Massachusetts like Worcester, Taunton, Salem, Barnstable, Plymouth and Springfield, the Summer before the Boston Massacre. Many of the actions taken by these citizen were fueled by and courage fortified by alcohol. Alcohol was an integral part of politics in the colonial period and to suggest otherwise is to ignore American history. For your information, the aristocrats of England believed that the rebels were nothing more than a bunch of drunken mobs. They were not far off mark in the early years of the war, particularity in New England and New York.

As to your ancestors, I am sure you have complete documentation as to their sobriety.

Keep up your research, you may learn something and teach us all in the process.

Davids mom
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Historical debate regarding Crispus Attucks

Reminds me of the different versions of the contributions of MLK. Change has come - but some attitudes remain the same.

PTC Observer
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History DM

Is as it has always been, slanted to contemporary interpretation and social "norms". The truth, if their is any to be found, is in the original documents, but even they are slanted by the authors. Twenty thousand original documents comprise what we know about the relationship between Jefferson and Adams. No one reading these pages has read them all. If you read them and I read them we would interpret them differently, and so it goes. History, is elusive but there are in fact, facts, and they are indeed stubborn things.

Devils can be made saints and saints made devils.

Davids mom
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History

is his story based on his point of view. It is necessary to expose oneself to all points of view.

Was everyone at the original 'tea party' sober?

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Tea Party sobrity

That's an interesting question, but my guess they were indeed sober on that occasion. Though I am certain that they had a few drinks afterwards. Today, there's a lot more drinking before re-enactments.

If you want to read an interesting book on the man behind the Tea Party, read:

John Hancock: Merchant King and American Patriot by Harlow Giles Unger

NUK_1
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STF

"The beatings will continue until MY morale improves."

fcteacher2013
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It's not what it seems

93% looks good, but it's not all because of the students hard work. It's because seniors are moved from a harder teacher in a core class to an easier teacher that teaches the same core class for the second semester so they can graduate and pressure to change grades. The grass is not always greener.

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