Sunday alcohol sales start Dec. 4 in PTC, F’ville, Tyrone

Just in time for the holiday season, residents in Peachtree City, Fayetteville and Tyrone will have their libations liberated for package sale on Sundays.

Dec. 4 will be the first such Sunday afternoon when, after 12:30 p.m., those over 21 will be able to legally purchase packaged beer and wine in all three municipalities.

In addition, Peachtree City retains the distinction as the only jurisdiction in Fayette County where liquor — whiskey, gin, vodka and the like — is sold, as such sales are not allowed in Fayetteville or Tyrone.

While it may be a merrier holiday season for drinkers in the cities, businesses in the unincorporated county will have to wait a few more months before they will have a chance to vote on a Sunday alcohol sales referendum.

That’s because the Fayette County Commission decided not to spend $40,000 to hold a special election solely for the Sunday sales measure. Instead, the measure is likely to be placed before voters at the presidential preference primary slated for March 6.

Shut out of Sunday sales in particular are the Publix supermarket just outside the eastern limits of Peachtree City and a number of convenience stores, which are also located in unincorporated Fayette County.

For now, their loyal customers will have to do their early shopping the other six days of the week, or trudge to the cities if they forget.

The Sunday sales referendum was made possible by a law passed by the Georgia legislature this year. But not every community in Georgia passed the measure: including nearby Palmetto, which defeated the referendum and thus will stay “dry” on Sundays.

Passage was not a problem in Peachtree City, where the Sunday sales initiative was more popular than any of the three city council candidates on the ballot.

SPQR
SPQR's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/15/2007
Fayette Sunday Sales

Why did Fayette county decline to include Sunday alcohol sales on the primary ballot?

AtHomeGym
AtHomeGym's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/18/2007
SPQR & Sunday Sales

Your question should be directed to our County Commissioners! What they have failed to do is give citizens the chance to eliminate the discrimination that numerous merchants in the unincorporated county now face--specifically Convenience stores that are already open on Sunday but cannot sell alcohol. Just shows how little they care about our economy and equal treatment of merchants. Email to Commissioner Brown several months ago about this issue got neither attention nor action.

SPQR
SPQR's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/15/2007
AHG

Thanks for the response. Heard on the news that Cobb and DeKalb had it on the ballot and was expecting to see it here as well. I agree. It's quite unfair to the merchants in the unincorporated part of the county. That said, I'm not surprised that the "Citizen" didn't make it an issue. And yes, I will inquire but I expect the same cone of silence as when I asked Ramsey about the ethics bill.

SPQR
SPQR's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/15/2007
Fayette Sunday Sales

Why did Fayette county decline to include Sunday alcohol sales on the primary ballot?

SPQR
SPQR's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/15/2007
Fayette Sunday Sales

Why did Fayette county decline to include Sunday alcohol sales on the primary ballot?

madmike
madmike's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/04/2006
Fluffy and the Sunday Alcohol Law

This conversation has meandered way past the original point and my reasoning for originally challenging Fluff on his comments. To bring it back into focus, a law was passed which will allow folks the freedom to buy alcohol on Sunday. Fluffy said, "I am against Sunday Sales."
If Fluffy had stated that he was against this law because, let's say, more drunk drivers would be on the road, he would be wrong, but then at least there would be a reasoning of pros versus negatives of why he is against it. However, Fluffy actually says he doesn't believe more drunks would be on the road due to the law and offers no substantive reason as to why he is against it. Void of that reasoning, and realizing the religious and moral connotations of drinking alcohol that exists, it is obvious to me that Fluffy is against this new freedom only because he is morally and/or religiously against drinking alcohol. Additional support for his disdain for those who drink is found when he states that he would prefer the whole county to be dry and his aghast at the mere mention of buying alcohol on Christmas ("What's really sad is the fact this type of question even had to come up.") Fluffy believes that his moral and religious compass should be the guiding light for the laws that tell the rest of us what we can or cannot do.
People who believe this, especially Christians (and I am one) have the heart in the right place and are good people but they miss the bigger picture. They truly believe that if everyone would adopt their way of thinking and their moral yardstick of right versus wrong, then the world would be a better place. That's fine and dandy until the one implementing the measuring device believes something different and then the issue becomes crystal clear. If the Muslims were able to use their influence and force us to use their yardstick, all of our kids would be reading from the Quran at school and the women wouldn't drive or vote. You would have a stuffed camel as part of the decor rather than a fluffy bear.
It is a very slippery slope my friends, and anytime our freedoms are compromised because of the moral or religious views of others we are going down the wrong road.
MYTIMITE, please proofread... I didn't have time.

fluffybear
fluffybear's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/11/2008
I see the need to respond

First, My reasons for not supporting the law are my own personal reasons. They have nothing to do with moral or religious influence but rather something more personal. These personal reasons are the same reason I would not mind living in a dry county. Yes, I did think it was sad that some appeared to be concerned about buying alcohol on Christmas not because I am against alcohol sales or again for religious reasons but because most of these stores tend to be closed and seemed silly to be in such 'panic'. BTW, I believe I mentioned this same fact multiple times.

It is very arrogant of you to assume what I was thinking without every taking the time to ask. At no point did you ever ask me in a polite way why I did not support Sunday sales? No, you attacked me without any justification. Had you even taken the moment to ask, you would have discovered I did not vote in the last election so while I do not support the law I did not vote for or against it.

MYTMITE
MYTMITE's picture
Offline
Joined: 02/14/2008
Fluffy, from reading your last post I sense you have a personal

reason for feeling as you do about alcohol and drunk driving. If that is the case, you have my deepest sympathy. I also want to apologize if I came on too strong in my replies to you. Sometimes some of us here dig a little deep but at the end of the day it is not taken to heart. That is, except for MadMike. He has learned a lot of new words lately and is determined to use each and every one in a sentence. He also suffers under the assumption that he is being erudite and clever. I think he does not get the attention he craves at home and uses this forum to right that perceived wrong. Forgive him for he knows not what he does.

Again, I offer you my sincere apology.

k0bra
k0bra's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/11/2007
You will also have to wait

You will also have to wait for several of those businesses to get a green light from their corporate offices. In addition, I was told that businesses will have to pay an additional tax and pay for the re-license of employees who will then be able to sell alcohol on sunday. currently, it's $20 for a ABC card (alcohol beverage card), now they are saying you will have to pay an additional $10 for sunday sales. Don't know how legit it is for other places, but that's what i've been told at the company i work for within PTC. Wonder if its the same for others.

SPQR
SPQR's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/15/2007
text of the revised alcohol sales law

The answer to my question is Christmas alcohol sales are at the discretion of the local government.

FOCUS™ Terms Search Within Advanced...
View Tutorial

View

1 of 1

View in a printer-friendly format

Return to Results | Book Browse

O.C.G.A. § 3-3-20 (Copy w/ Cite)
Pages: 3
O.C.G.A. § 3-3-20

GEORGIA CODE
Copyright 2011 by The State of Georgia
All rights reserved.

*** Current Through the 2011 Extraordinary Session ***

TITLE 3. ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES
CHAPTER 3. REGULATION OF ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES GENERALLY
ARTICLE 2. PROHIBITED ACTS

O.C.G.A. § 3-3-20 (2011)

§ 3-3-20. Sale of alcoholic beverages on Sundays, election days, and Christmas Day

(a) Except as provided in subsection (d) of this Code section or except as specifically authorized by law, no person knowingly and intentionally shall sell or offer to sell alcoholic beverages on Sunday.

(b) (1) As used in this subsection, the term "day" means that period of time beginning with the opening of the polls and ending with the closing of the polls.

(2) (A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B) of this paragraph and paragraph (3) of this subsection, in any county or municipality in which the sale of alcoholic beverages is authorized, the sale of alcoholic beverages in compliance with such authorization shall be authorized and legal on any election day.

(B) The local governing authority of any county in which the sale of alcoholic beverages is authorized and the local governing authority of any municipality in which the sale of alcoholic beverages is authorized may, by ordinance, prohibit the sale of alcoholic beverages on any election days. In any case where the governing authority of a county or municipality has passed an ordinance prohibiting the sale of alcoholic beverages on any election days as authorized by this subparagraph, such prohibition shall apply only within the territorial boundaries for which the election is held but such territorial boundaries shall not include any property owned or operated by a county, municipality, or other political subdivision of this state for airport purposes if no person resides on such publicly owned or operated property.

(3) (A) Notwithstanding any other provisions of this subsection, it shall be unlawful for any person to sell alcoholic beverages within 250 feet of any polling place or of the outer edge of any building within which such polling place is established on primary or election days.

(B) Any person violating the provisions of this paragraph shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.

(c) The governing authority of any county or municipality may, by ordinance or resolution, prohibit the sale of alcoholic beverages on Christmas Day.

(d) (1) In all municipalities within any county having a population of 400,000 or more according to the United States decennial census of 1990 or any future such census in which the sale of alcoholic beverages is lawful, alcoholic beverages may be sold on Sundays between the hours of 12:30 P.M. and 12:00 Midnight at festivals. As used in this paragraph, the term "festival" means a specific outdoor public celebration or gathering for which a license or permit has been issued by the appropriate governing authority which involves the use either of public parks or public streets and which includes entertainment, dancing, music, dramatic productions, art exhibition, parades, or the sale of merchandise, food or alcohol, or any combination of the foregoing; and which of necessity requires for its successful execution the provision and coordination of municipal services to a degree significantly over and above that which the city routinely provides under ordinary everyday circumstances. The definition of "festival," as used in this paragraph, does not include events which are solely parades, foot races, or political demonstrations unless such parade, foot race, or political demonstration is proposed as an integral part of a larger "festival," as defined in this paragraph.

(2) Notwithstanding the provisions of this subsection, all persons and entities selling alcoholic beverages pursuant to this subsection shall fully comply with all other applicable state and local license and permit requirements.

HISTORY: Ga. L. 1937, p. 148, §§ 6, 7; Ga. L. 1937-38, Ex. Sess., p. 103, § 14; Ga. L. 1971, p. 864, § 1; Ga. L. 1972, p. 721, § 1; Ga. L. 1977, p. 1236, § 1; Code 1933, § 58-813, enacted by Ga. L. 1977, p. 1316, § 1; Code 1933, § 5A-507, enacted by Ga. L. 1980, p. 1573, § 1; Ga. L. 1981, p. 460, § 1; Ga. L. 1981, p. 1269, § 19; Ga. L. 1982, p. 890, § 1; Ga. L. 1984, p. 1688, § 1; Ga. L. 1985, p. 1508, § 1; Ga. L. 1986, p. 10, § 3; Ga. L. 1992, p. 1694, § 1; Ga. L. 2000, p. 1405, § 1.

View

1 of 1

View in a printer-friendly format

Return to Results | Book Browse

O.C.G.A. § 3-3-20 (Copy w/ Cite)
Pages: 3

ln About LexisNexis | Privacy Policy | Terms & Conditions | Contact Us
Copyright © 2011 LexisNexis, a division of Reed Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.

SPQR
SPQR's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/15/2007
oops

this is actually the old statute.

NUK_1
NUK_1's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/17/2007
Wrong law

That was the existing ordinance before this year and banned package sales of alcohol on Sunday.

The version passed in April this year allowing local municipalities to decide on Sunday sales is Senate Bill 10 and it includes time restrictions:

http://www1.legis.ga.gov/legis/2011_12/pdf/sb10.pdf

mcg
mcg's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/27/2006
No Alcohol Sales on Christmas or Easter

I am pretty sure that I heard on the news that alcohol sales would not be allowed on Christmas Day or Easter Sunday.

SPQR
SPQR's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/15/2007
Christmas alcohol sales

Question.

Does this law have any bearing on Christmas day sales of Alcohol?

fluffybear
fluffybear's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/11/2008
I believe most places

I believe most places including grocery stores, Wal-Mart tend to close on Christmas, I'd suggest you buy your booze early.

What's really sad is the fact this type of question even had to come up.

kcchiefandy
kcchiefandy's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/18/2009
Why, Fluffy?

When 3/4th the world ISN'T of the Christian faith, and a good portion of the US, Christmas Day means NOTHING to them, why would these stores (having the opportunity of) being open be so egregious to you? If you don't like it, don't frequent the store. 'Leave It To Beaver' ended in the early '60's; it's 2011 now...I've even heard people are having abortions and some homosexuals are flaunting themselves openly!

fluffybear
fluffybear's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/11/2008
Isn't more something like 3/4

Isn't more something like 3/4 of the US considers them Christian and somewhere close to 40% of the world do?

Once again, we have the problem where someone is not reading everything completely. I have no problem with a store being open on Christmas Day or even if they sell alcohol on Christmas. I just pointed out that a number of these stores tend to close on Christmas anyway so worrying about if you are going to be able and get yourself a case of Bud on Christmas morning is kind of a mute point.
I just think it is just so sad how some are in such a panic if they are going to be able and get their booze on Christmas Day.

kcchiefandy
kcchiefandy's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/18/2009
Oh, I agree, Fluffy...

...but doubt they'd be "in a panic" if not available on Christmas. I read your tone as to 'how could these horrible people even think to purchase drink on Christ's b-day?!' I must have been wrong. As for % of the world's Christians, it probably depends on who/what you read and the criteria.

madmike
madmike's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/04/2006
Fluffy... Mute versus Moot

Just to keep us all speaking the same language... if it was a "mute" point as you suggest, that would mean that the point wasn't verbalized; see the "mute" button on your TV as an example. What I think you meant to say was that it was a "moot" point, meaning that the outcome was no longer of importance as some other overriding situation made it irrelevant.

fluffybear
fluffybear's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/11/2008
thank you for the correction

thank you for the correction

father time
father time's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/06/2010
Excuse after excuse

By legalizing alcohol sales on sunday does not force anyone to participate.It is of your own decision to do so. If you truly think that because the law has past will create more drunk drivers, I believe that you are wrong. Going to a nudie bar or sex novelty store is legal, but I choose to not participate. You have to understand that this was put to a vote for citizens to enact their right to speak and they have, but it still doesn't mean that you have to jump in. I do not believe in the seatbelt law. Wearing a seatbelt does not guarentee that you will not be injured or even die. Will the State of Ga be responsible if it was ever proven that a car accident fatality concluded the seatbelt was part of the cause of death? It is law to wear one and most people comply.
We tend to look at the trivial things that are happening and not the major items that our politicians have forced us into. Maybe people need to drink on sunday to cope with the economy and the heriffic times that we face. Pray for our country, our leaders and our churches if you want to help. Vote all of the incumbents out and start new, revise the perks and rediculous saleries that they recieve now and for the rest of their lives. It seems that they don't care what will happen because they have taken care of their own. Make a statement for something that really matters.

Main Stream
Main Stream's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/27/2006
Fundies and liquor sales

"...Sunday afternoon, after 12:30 p.m." Was this time limit on the ballot issue that we voted on? So, I can't go into Kroger and buy a bottle of champagne for Sunday morning mimosa's and I'll have to wait until 12:30pm? Really? Why is that? Are the fundies still holding the Kroger liquor aisle hostage Sunday mornings? For crap sakes, people, even Jesus drank wine.

G35 Dude
G35 Dude's picture
Offline
Joined: 02/15/2006
Sunday Sales Opponents.

The main opponent of Sunday sales and probably the largest supporters of the wait until 12:30 part of the current law was the liquor stores themselves. They liked the idea of having a day off without competition. They do not like having to open on Sunday's. They will now have to pay personnel additional wages as well as increased utilities to be open so as not to lose out on sales. The grocery/convenience stores have no additional expenses since they are already open. I'd guess that the liquor stores at least wanted an excuse to sleep in on Sunday without losing sales.

AtHomeGym
AtHomeGym's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/18/2007
G35 & Sunday sales at Liquor Stores

Simply a business decison about whether to open or not. I'm guessing that those who choose to open will discover it's not worth it and after a couple of Sundays, revert to being closed on Sunday.

G35 Dude
G35 Dude's picture
Offline
Joined: 02/15/2006
Decisions will be made.
Quote:

Simply a business decison about whether to open or not. I'm guessing that those who choose to open will discover it's not worth it and after a couple of Sundays, revert to being closed on Sunday.

Maybe. My only point was that while most blame the religious people (And they are due some of the blame) one of the largest supporters of no Sunday sales were the liquor stores themselves. They felt that people would stock up on Saturday (which they did). No lost sales. And a free day off. Now they they will either open on Sunday. (Cost's money) Or not. (Lost sales)

MYTMITE
MYTMITE's picture
Offline
Joined: 02/14/2008
Hey, Main, party hardy on Saturday, sleep late Sunday am and

run down to Kroger's at 12:29, grab a bottle or two of the bubbly and call all of us to come over for omelettes and mimosas--sounds like a winner to me--I would even be willing to do the running into Krogers at 12:29!

AtHomeGym
AtHomeGym's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/18/2007
Well Main, what

do you do now? Do without or plan ahead & buy on Saturday? I'm sure the 12:30 time is to placate all the thumpers. I bet you can handle it!

Cyclist
Cyclist's picture
Offline
Joined: 05/15/2007
Hang in there Main....

we'll get there eventually.

goodrain
goodrain's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/22/2010
Not Good

Now, how any people are now going to die on the road due to drinking and driving.I pray for the ones who vote for this law that it dont be your love ones.

fluffybear
fluffybear's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/11/2008
I am against Sunday sales (as

I am against Sunday sales (as a matter of fact, I wouldn't mind this area being DRY). That being said, I do not believe Sunday sales will increase the amount of drunk drivers on our roads by any significant number. Yes, Sunday sales will allow the bozo who is already plastered to go and restock his supply during half time but by the same token it might encourage some to buy less during the week knowing they don't have to stock up.

Spyglass
Spyglass's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/28/2008
Fluf, just for kicks, where did things go haywire last Sunday?

I'm assuming you knew that many municipalities in the State chose to start selling last Sunday.

Let's hear about the bedlam and mayhem that broke out.

fluffybear
fluffybear's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/11/2008
Another person who refuses to read

I see the concept of actually reading a message is not something understood by you.

Where in my message did I say there was going to bedlam and mayhem? If you had actually taken the time to read my message and got past the first sentence where I said I do not support the new law you would have seen that I said the Sunday Sales would have no additional effect on drunk driving incidents and might even lower them during the week.

madmike
madmike's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/04/2006
Why Fluffy...

Do you believe that what you think should be imposed on the rest of us? The law doesn't require you to go out and buy alcohol on Sunday (as opposed to Healthcare thanks to Obama). If you aren't going to buy alcohol on Sunday either way, your only interest in the law is to impose what you think is right and wrong on the rest of the population.
I don't drink myself but I voted to lift the restriction because restricting alcohol sales on Sunday is just another manifestation of the government trying to legislate what it thinks you and I should do, when and how we should do it. Why would anyone support that? Are you not intelligent enough to run your own life without the government?

fluffybear
fluffybear's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/11/2008
I guess the same reason you

I guess the same reason you believe that your beliefs should be imposed on the rest of us. Because I am entitled to my own opinions and beliefs just as you are.

Spyglass
Spyglass's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/28/2008
I see the idea of a Republic form of Government

is not understood by you.

madmike
madmike's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/04/2006
When Fluffy...

did I suggest that any law be passed to enforce on others what they should do or not do with their individual lives based on what I think is best? I think you should be able to do anything you want to do so long as it doesn't prevent me (or others) from doing what I want to do.
You are absolutely entitled to your beliefs but when you think those beliefs should be put in the form of legislation so that the government can go so far as to put a gun to my head to make me follow your beliefs that is where I draw the line.

fluffybear
fluffybear's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/11/2008
your belief is we should not

your belief is we should not have government or laws? So, according to your logic my 7 year old should be able to walk into bar put his piggy name on the table and buy himself a beer then get in the car and drive himself home. After all, a law was passed based on someone's belief it would be safer for him nto to do it.
Let stop here and think on this a second as if you answer NO he should not be allowed to do these things then you are a hypocrite while if you answer yes then you are truly mad (insane).

madmike
madmike's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/04/2006
Fluffless...

I don't know if you are capable of grasping even the elementary precepts we are trying to discuss, which makes this conversation difficult. First line of defense for you seems to put words in my mouth and then argue against that false assumption.
When did I state that there should be no government or laws? Government and its accompanying laws are a requirement for a civilized society. Government has its place. However, I don't believe it is the government's role to regulate every aspect of our lives, including whether or not we are able to buy a beer on Sunday.
As far as your seven year-old drinking example; first of all, they wouldn't as you suggest pass a law allowing for this activity, they would simply repeal the law that prevents it (see my first statement above). Secondly, the government has rightfully determined that seven year-olds aren't mature enough to handle the myriad of responsibilities that are involved in making the decision to drink. The state does have some responsibility for looking after children until they are able to look after themselves and having drunk seven children wandering the neighborhoods certainly impacts my ability to enjoy my life. Thus it is an appropriate role of the government to prevent it.

fluffybear
fluffybear's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/11/2008
We are never going to agree

We are never going to agree on this, Madmike aka Mike King (it is clearly obvious now you are the same).
You are most definitely a hypocrite. You believe we need to have some laws that infringe on personal rights but not others. You can not have it both ways.

I never once said that you do not have a right to buy your alcohol on Sunday just that I do not look like the law. That's called an opinion. I realize you do not understand others have such things and are entitled to them and that you really have no right to insult someone and attack them because they do not agree with you.

Since we are talking about quality of life here, What makes your life more special than mine or that of my family or anyone else for that matter. Don't I and others have the right to walk the street and not have to worry about someone who has drank to much from running us down? Doesn't an unborn child have the right to life but instead won't see it due to a drunk driver running a stop sign and killing he and his mother? It appears to me that as long as we don't infringe on your quality of life, you'll be happy. Oh by the way, The hell with everyone else and their quality of life. Did I get that right?

MYTMITE
MYTMITE's picture
Offline
Joined: 02/14/2008
First of all your fluffiness, to paraphrase here "I have met

Mike King and MadMike is no Mike King." I have been reading your posts and trying to make some sense of them, to no avail. I assume you meant you have the right to walk on the sidewalk (not the street) and not be run down by someone who has had too much to drink---sorry to sound crass but wouldn't you or your loved one be just as dead if the driver looked away for a second and lost control, bent down to change the station on their radio, etc? Should we outlaw radios in cars? If the law allows people to drink six days of the week aren't you just as apt to be run down between Monday and Saturday as you are on Sunday? I cannot understand the reasoning behind those who think that because you can now buy alcohol on Sunday, that everyone is going to run amok and create mayhem on that day.

I don't drink and I don't smoke, but I feel anyone who wants to should have that right. Unless someone drags you into the store and makes you buy alcohol, you should be no more affected than you were before the law on Sunday sales was passed. In fact, you actually should be safer--except for those texting, twittering, phoning maniacs on the road--now those I think we should do something about!

madmike
madmike's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/04/2006
MYTMITE!

Is it possible we are on the same page about something? This is the start of something truly awesome and romantic I can feel it!

MYTMITE
MYTMITE's picture
Offline
Joined: 02/14/2008
The only thing you feel is your head swelling from trying to

take in too much information--I see you have been working on your vocabulary--- keep it up---and correcting someone else's blog--that was golden.

fluffybear
fluffybear's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/11/2008
My point was while madmike

My point was while madmike according to his statements seems to believe he is the only one entitled to quality of life. My point was that others are just as much entitled to quality of life as well. Yes, someone could be just as dead if someone were to lose control of their car while texting or not paying attention but my comments here only dealt with the quality of life being denied because of the actions of a drunk driver.

Had you actually been reading my posts then you would have noticed my first post regarding this topic stated that I do not believe Sunday sales will create any additional drunk drivers and might even reduce them. I was reamed by madmike because I voiced my personal opinion in that I do not support the law. I did not say that the law should be repealed or that he did not have the right to buy booze on Sundays just that I did not support the law.

The Wedge
The Wedge's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/09/2008
Okay Mytmite, I'll play
MYTMITE wrote:

I don't drink and I don't smoke, but I feel anyone who wants to should have that right. Unless someone drags you into the store and makes you buy alcohol, you should be no more affected than you were before the law on Sunday sales was passed.

Let's continue this laissez faire argument some more. This same argument can be applied to any drug (marijuana, LSD, cocaine, etc). This same argument can be applied to the legalization of any kind of marriage - a grouping of 5 persons, 3, or a dozen. This argument can be applied in many other situations. Where else can we go with it?

MYTMITE
MYTMITE's picture
Offline
Joined: 02/14/2008
Okay, Wedge, I should have quantified my statement to say within

the law. We can go with it as far as the majority or the legislators take it (that last could be scary!!). I also don't kill anyone but I certainly do not think it is okay for someone else to do so unless they are threatened or to protect their family or others. I would hope that some reason prevailed, but if a law was passed we would be expected to obey that law--again if they passed a law allowing plural marriages we would not have to have a plural marriage just as we do not have to buy alcohol on Sunday. And, no, I would not want a plural marriage--one spouse is more than enough for anyone--and in some instances even that one is too much!

The Wedge
The Wedge's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/09/2008
Let this be for all to consider

MYTMITE-as Sunday alcohol sales go to show you, laws can be changed. My problem with any of this bashing of fluffy is that you were okay with the change and feel confident to voice your opinion, but not confident enough to allow someone to lament the vote. I have not seen in any of this where that person advocated armed insurrection or violent action to overthrow this law. It is merely an opinion. You know me, but I have no clue who Fluffy is but this whole conversation has grated upon me. Laws and social mores change over time. A healthy republic allows for this change to happen legislatively, and not through the fiat of litigation and supreme court decisions. 50 years ago, there was no credible support for gay marriage, yet through clever marketing and social advocacy, this is supported by law in several states and will soon be the law in every state. Don't kid yourself into thinking that the subject of a gay union of 2 persons be the end of the change of the definition of marriage. It is only the start.
It is okay in many parts of the world to arrange the marriage of your children. Public opinion is moldable enough to rehab Michael Vick or allow for this to become supported by the law. It is okay in some countries to have unfettered access to significant pharmaceuticals. If opinion changes in this country, it will be legal here too. Would you be willing to hold your tongue when that law changes? Would you be confident to hold your tongue if NAMBLA is able to reduce the age of consent to 13 in the US or a particular state? That is something regulated by statute and public opinion, easily changed as society changes.

kcchiefandy
kcchiefandy's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/18/2009
Yup, made that argument, Wedge...

...awhile ago on here, ref. your NAMBLA reference. Once you legitimize one sexual deviancy as 'normal', you open the door to ALL venerations of such to be deemed 'normal' by society. As you alluded to, many areas of the world have no problem with hooking up w/ young teen girls (and boys, I suppose). Only a matter of time before it becomes accepted here; you can thank the homosexual lobby. And.....here comes the screaming by their supporters about 'consenting adults'....! As you said, 'easily changed as society changes'!

MYTMITE
MYTMITE's picture
Offline
Joined: 02/14/2008
Wedge, i guess I did not get across what I was trying to say to

Fluffy. I am not against Fluffy or anyone voicing their unhappiness with the Sunday liquor sale vote---I just cannot understand why many of those who are against it feel that we are suddenly going to have inebriated drivers running down innocent (some pregnant) people. Now, Fluffy said he/she would not mind if we were Dry---that to me would make more sense--if no one was allowed to buy liquor at any time then I could see the reasoning--theoretically, if there was no liquor available then no one would drink and there would be no drunk drivers--except then there would be bootlegging--and moonshine. To me, for someone to say that because of the availability of alcoholic beverages the death rate would go up is the same as saying if you outlawed smoking tobacco on Sunday death by lung cancer would go down---

Yes, social mores do change---in the not too distant past it was accepted as normal for girls 14, 15, 16 yrs old to marry. Now, it is becoming the norm for young girls to have children out of wedlock and the government to care for them financially. Are these things I approve of? No, but it is done. Have I spoken out against it? Yes. As for NAMBLA and the age change-No, if they attempted to pass such a law I would speak out against it and vote against it. Yet, that is accepted in many other countries as is arranged marriages---

I see what you are saying but I do not think you can equate allowing someone to buy alcohol for their consumption on one additional day of the week to allowing the other changes you mention.

The Wedge
The Wedge's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/09/2008
MYTMITE, sorry

Your posting was a convenient place to continue my musings-all of that wasn't meant for you alone :) You are mistaking my point in bringing up issues that you may feel strongly about. My point is that it is wrong for this assembled group to chastize a blogger who complains about the alcohol ordinance being passed and lamenting possible changes in society and equating this person with everything that is stupid and inane when the shoe will soon be on the other foot for something that they consider a terrible societal change. When I was at Benning in the early 90's, it was a struggle to find an open business in the local mall on a Sunday. Now everything but Chic-fil-a and banks are open on Sunday. Is this change great in every aspect? I submit to you that it is not. We, as a society, have systematically removed any structure or convention that emphasized something greater than ourselves. We are determined to be fully narsissic, full of self and all that it entails. I should be able to drink whenever I want; I should be able to marry whomever I want; I should be able to do whatever I want; I should be able to be a lazy as I want, I should not have to pay any consequences. I personally see no scriptural problem with the consumption of alcohol in moderation. Yet I see a big problem in the complete bacchanalia that accompanies our quest for every glorification of our own supremecy. Now have a great night :)

G35 Dude
G35 Dude's picture
Offline
Joined: 02/15/2006
Hey Wedge

The Law is a system of rules and guidelines which are enforced through social institutions to govern behavior, wherever possible. They are decided on by the populace. The majority does at times impose it's will on the minority. Many fine lines must be interpreted. Is the right of one to smoke more important than the right of another not to be around those that are smoking?

Many times morality of the majority determines the answer. I.E. Gay marriage. I think everyone here knows this. And I think that most accept that we will differ in our opinions. So, I guess what I'm leading up to is that I don't think the attacks on Fluffy are because of his/her opinions. If I had to guess, and I could be wrong, I'd say that in the past, Fluffy has posted with an air of condescension. Some of that may have carried over to this discussion. Only those involved can say for sure.

MYTMITE
MYTMITE's picture
Offline
Joined: 02/14/2008
Some time ago I posted on here that I remembered when almost

nothing but churches and restaurants were open on Sundays and not too many restaurants. I remember the outcry when grocery stores started opening--people were saying that you should be able to do whatever shopping you needed before Sunday--but in no time at all it seemed everyone was at the grocery stores on Sunday--many church goers going in after church. The first store I remember opening was Winn Dixie---I must admit it was rather nice not to have stores open---families spent more time together- you had special Sunday dinners with the whole family sitting down to eat--you went for long drives--if you had remembered to gas up the day before. Little by little- other businesses started opening on Sundays, mostly the chain stores, family run stores held out as long as they could. You are right, we have become so self-centered that we want instant gratification for everything. We have a whole generation that will never know what life was back then---slower, more family oriented. Now, I imagine there are families who never sit down to eat together unless it is a holiday or birthday meal. Do people go for a ride just to go for a ride, anymore? Is it better? I don't think so but I don't think I have the right to dictate what others do, unless it is something that is illegal (forget about immoral--that went out the door years ago). I admit I go to the grocery store or do other shopping on Sundays along with everyone else. If the stores were not open I would adjust--no biggie--but there are there and open, so I go along with everyone else.

AtHomeGym
AtHomeGym's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/18/2007
mytmite & logic

There you go again, trying to insert logic into a string that is pretty much devoid of such! Don't expect much joy in reply---but nice try anyway. One would have thought fluffo would get a clue when I replied to "TwoMikes" but no, no, not a chance if it deprives of another detour or opportunity for another oblique comment.

MYTMITE
MYTMITE's picture
Offline
Joined: 02/14/2008
Okay, athomegym, I know you must be Mike King--no wait, I think

you may be MadMike (God forbid) or maybe you are Wedge. All of you guys sound alike (not!). Anyway, this is all giving me a headache--I think I will go fix me a stiff drink, light up a Lucky and start twittering or whatever!

Mike King
Mike King's picture
Offline
Joined: 11/29/2006
OK, MYTMITE...

...Take three deep breaths, light your lucky (LSMFT), pickup your stiff drink of lemonade, prop up your feet, and consider that two out of the four of the most identifiable men in your life today are named Mike.

Scary, ain't it?

Where the hell is Kevin today anyway?

kevink
kevink's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/07/2011
Mike and Mytmite. When pins are pulled from grenades, sometimes

I run. This is one such time. Not getting fragged this time :-). I've been speechless watching GOP presidential politics spiral in a not up direction, and the last fight I want to enter is the fight I've already won e.g. Booze on Domingo.
No sun and fun. Cold windy and work-related. Cheers to you both! And the usual suspects (cyclehutchathomecarbonmainnukg35skydawnjevanktuglockeliongorttmanninjakchiefwedgefluffy)

I'm in town grounded from 10-18 Dec. Let's make it count. And invite fluffy so she can see how well we clean our acts up in the flesh....and that we ARE different peeps ;-).

MYTMITE
MYTMITE's picture
Offline
Joined: 02/14/2008
Kev's baaaccckkk! Welcome back--things have been a little dull

in your absence. Sorry you weren't drinking fruity drinks under an umbrella while bikini clad beauties walked too and fro vying for your attention. I will be around til about the 10th of Dec, and would love coffee and words with the gang if it is doable for all, as long as we are not meeting too far from PTC, as time would be a factor. What say you all??

Mike King
Mike King's picture
Offline
Joined: 11/29/2006
Kevin, MYTMITE

How about the late afternoon on the tenth for an adult or not so adult beverage and let Kevin select the venue?

MYTMITE
MYTMITE's picture
Offline
Joined: 02/14/2008
Sounds good to me--if everyone else can make it---

Hope to see one and all.

MYTMITE
MYTMITE's picture
Offline
Joined: 02/14/2008
Beyond scary, since there are at least six others----as for Kev

i think he is somewhere sunny and bright working on his tan and smile---let's hope so---wish we were.

Mike King
Mike King's picture
Offline
Joined: 11/29/2006
Fluffo

Sorry that I stepped into a conversation with two of my friends that happened also to include a clown. Allow me to assure you that my friend madmike and I are two separate individuals.

Just to set the record straight, it was you who offered that YOUR kid could go into a bar, and I defy you to show where anything I said denied you or yours to freely walk the street. Additionally, it is funny to me that you say you don't look like the law, but it's obvious I stepped upon a nerve and you've become a tad agitated.

Last question: Is it true that you are of the Baptist faith?

Snow Bunny
Snow Bunny's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/20/2010
It is juvenile comments such

It is juvenile comments such as yours that I tend not to post on this forum very often. I voted for Sunday sales but also respect Fluffybear's decision. I am sure that he/she has their own reasons for not voting for this law just as you had yours.
We won! As of December 4, we can buy our beer and wine on Sunday. There is no reason to be sore winners and gloat and attack people who did not vote the same way as you. Let me ask, is this thread something you would be proud to show your children? I wouldn't It's embarrassing how so many adults have behaved poorly.

madmike
madmike's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/04/2006
Who forgot to close the gate...

to the petting zoo when they left? First we have Fluffy the Bear getting her stuffings all over the place and now a Snow Bunny has come out of her hole just in time for winter to spread her sage musings. Wow...
I think the idea that anyone is "gloating" over allowing alcohol to be sold on Sunday is a bit of a stretch.

Frozen Rabbit wrote:

"Is this a thread that someone would be proud to show their children?

Huh? Now that is certainly relevant. Snow Bunny, thaw out completely before you start conversing here and maybe you wouldn't attract the juvenile comments you so detest.

Snow Bunny
Snow Bunny's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/20/2010
I'm sorry you can't seem to

I'm sorry you can't seem to fathom that you are embarrassing yourself and acting like a bunch of pre-schoolers.

fluffybear
fluffybear's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/11/2008
My final message..

This will be my last post ever in this forum! I have a lot better things to do with my life then put up with the hypocrite brothers and their followers.
I have a great wife and 4 of the best kids you would ever meet. I educate my children to believe that everyone is entitled to their opinions even if we do not agree with them. I do not teach my children to chastise someone and call them names because they think differently then us. You on the other hand have been exposed for the bitter hypocrite of a man you are.

Peace Out!

fluffybear
fluffybear's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/11/2008
Nope, I'm a Lutheran. FYI, I

Nope, I'm a Lutheran.
FYI, I don't belong to any of the churches in Peachtree City nor do I attend on any kind of a regular basis! I am of the belief that God is everywhere and I don't need to go into some building in stick money in a plate to have him hear my prayers.

You stepped on a nerve when you started to rant and have no idea of what you speak. Go back and read your friends comment again. All legislation comes about because of someone's beliefs. That is the way the system works. The fact is your friend said he does not like the government making legislation that infringes on his personal right. My scenario was only to find out if he truly believes this or not. What did we find out, He is a hypocrite who appears to believe life should revolve around him.
BTW, it is very interesting how you seem to be saying you did not say any of these things when my message was not directed at you. Looks like you may have forgot who you were logged in as?

Ninja Guy
Ninja Guy's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/26/2010
Lutherans and the Real Presence

Welcome to the show Fluffy! So, as a Lutheran, I suppose you have some knowledge or and embrace the doctrine of the Real Presence--the doctrine that Christ is truly present in the communion wafer and wine. Some call the Lutheran ideas on this consubstatiation, which is a bit different from the transubstantiation doctrine of Roman church, but basically basically embraces the same concept.

However, which do you think is more correct--consubstantiaion or transubstantiation? I am looking for a Christian religion to supplant my current Taosim. Can you help me out here?

Falcons get the win! Wildcard on!

The Wedge
The Wedge's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/09/2008
Ninja Guy and Taoism

I am fascinated. Could you please expound upon your beliefs? Especially the Tao and how it is to be manifested in everything. Thanks in advance for your cogent answer. and Cheers to you as well

Ninja Guy
Ninja Guy's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/26/2010
More On Taoism

Translated literally, the Tao means the 'way.' Basically, it means aligning oneself with the order of the universe. There are lots of books and commentary on Taoism, some of which I have read and some of which I have not. My favorite saying about Taoism, from one of the main texts about it, is 'The way that can be described is not the true way.' So, in essence Taoism is transcendental. I would say that the main concept is 'effortless action.' That means tapping into the flow of the universe rather than trying to impose your will on it. Sometimes, I explain it this way. If you have ever played sports at a high level, even for a moment at at even the pee-wee level, you would gain a glimmer of the Tao when being in the 'zone', when your actions seem totally effortless but the results are near perfection. I elected Taoism over Buddhism because I could not buy into the 'Life is Suffering' philosophy. However, the Asian nation where I did my Ninja training was more Buddhist, so there was not a large community of Taoists to associate with. Recently, however, I have become interested in the concept of a creator of the Universe, and the notion of salvation is somewhat appealing. However, the Bible on its own does not seem to present a coherent philosophy for achieving this, so I am looking into the various Christian religions from historical and theological perspectives to see if I can choose one to explore for membership. So far, I like the Orthodox churches, mainly Greek, but they have the problem of nationalism. So, I am thinking of looking more into Roman Catholicism, as it is universalist in nature and therefore closer to Taoism.

Tebow seems to be on the Taoist path here recently!

Go Broncos!

fluffybear
fluffybear's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/11/2008
Actually neither one is what

Actually neither one is what I was raised with. Martin Luther actually authored the sacramental union doctrine and the church my family attended followed that doctrine. Some tend to confuse this with consubstantiation but there is differences between the two. I do not remember exactly what the differences are. It has been some 30 years since I was confirmed.
The Lutheran Church has changed dramatically since I was young and the fact I do not attend on a regular basis, you might be better asking someone else.

The Wedge
The Wedge's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/09/2008
Mike

I am a Baptist that voted for the ordinance. how does an "outing" of faith serve you? Reread the 7 year old and the bar scenario again. You seriously did not catch the nuance of it. Cheers to you

Mike King
Mike King's picture
Offline
Joined: 11/29/2006
Wedge

You are correct as my 'dark' humor caused a temporary lapse in judgement. For that my apologies are offered. Reality is that your comment prevented me from deleting it.

Cheers back to you.

Mike King
Mike King's picture
Offline
Joined: 11/29/2006
No, No, No Fluffo...

...Even crusty old conservatives like myself realize that a civilized society must have laws. Take for instance that one must be an adult (twenty-one years of age) in order to legally purchase alcohol which would prohibit Fluffo Jr from making that purchase at the bar. The same applies regarding driving at seven years of age.

Taking my point a bit further, without laws(and their subsequent enforcement) we would simply have anarchy whereby the simple rule of bully force would prevail without restriction. What you are asking to have is that government have that same bully force telling me to live my life according to your values.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that ain't happening.

fluffybear
fluffybear's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/11/2008
I'm confused here! Are you

I'm confused here! Are you madmike and Athomegym as well??? Beginning to look like it..

Since my comment was regarding madmike's comment:

You are absolutely entitled to your beliefs but when you think those beliefs should be put in the form of legislation so that the government can go so far as to put a gun to my head to make me follow your beliefs that is where I draw the line.

If you actually look at this comment, madmike has said that he does not like legislation which prohibits one from making their own decision. My scenario was only to discover if the person is a true hypocrite or just insane.

Never once did I tell you that you have to live by my values. This law was passed by the people and while I do not like it, I will accept it. What you are saying is I do not have a right to my opinion because it disagrees with what you believe. It is funny how you seem to be entitled to your opinion while no one else is.

Hate to burst your bubble but I am entitled to mine and your childish behavior won't change it.

AtHomeGym
AtHomeGym's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/18/2007
Fluffo, MM & Sunday Sales

Imposition? Who used that word? How about "authorization", meaning YOU decide instead of the nanny state.

madmike
madmike's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/04/2006
Amen AHG...

+

Mike King
Mike King's picture
Offline
Joined: 11/29/2006
Hey Gym, madmikle

Would you two stop picking on defenseless (and possibly clueless) Fluffo The Clown, and go back to watching football? Perhaps if we told a few Baptist jokes this site would really start jumping, and someone will chime in on some Blue Law that prohibits Sunday blogging.

G35 Dude
G35 Dude's picture
Offline
Joined: 02/15/2006
You want a joke? (Other than Fluffy?)

How about this one? It's a political joke instead of a religious one. But I like it.

A driver is stuck in a traffic jam on the highway. Nothing is moving.

Suddenly, a man knocks on the window. The driver rolls down the window and asks, "What's going on?"

"Terrorists have kidnapped Congress, and are asking for a $10 million dollar ransom.

Otherwise, they are going to douse them all in gasoline and set them on fire.

We are going from car to car, taking up a collection."

"How much is everyone giving, on average?" the driver asks.

The man replies, "About a gallon!"

Davids mom
Davids mom's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/30/2005
G35Dude

LOL!

The Wedge
The Wedge's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/09/2008
Misplaced and Sanctimonious in this entire exchange

Most of this entire exchange between AHG, King, and Madmike on Fluffy is completely missing the mark and sounds hypocritical. Fluffy laments a voted upon change in the law (one that I actually voted for although I do not drink) and you castigate Fluffy as imposing "its" will and values. Why attack that when that is all we do here? When it is all said and done, laws are evoked by nothing more than a collective value system. Zoning laws, drinking laws, driving laws, CAFE standards, emissions standards, efficiency standards, business permitting, and many laws including health care, insurance, orphan drug, banning of controlled substances, etc are nothing more than value judgements. There is a give and take with all of it and every piece of legislation has positives and negatives. It is ridiculous to tear down Fluffy, who was only expressing opinion, yet beat your chest and claim that you are law and order guys.
And the blogger who is asking about Christmas sales, go luck finding any store, except gas stations, open to sell you booze. It isn't governmental action that is keeping them closed, it is their business strategy and taking care of their workers. How did Target fare when they decided to open on Thanksgiving night? Did that go well with their employees?

AtHomeGym
AtHomeGym's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/18/2007
Two Mikes & Fluffo

You're right and from the 4am post this morning, it's clear that Fluffo can't grasp the concept of individual freedom & personal responsibility. And it's an even greater shame that there is a 7 yr old who is forced to live in such an environment. I'm outta here!

fluffybear
fluffybear's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/11/2008
Looks like the ones who are

Looks like the ones who are clueless here is yourself and madmike. Had madmike actually read my post (not just the first sentence) and you actually taken the time to read it yourself instead of jumping on the madmike bandwagon you would have noticed that while I do not personally agree with the law I was defending it by stating that I do not believe we will see an increase in drunk driving as a result of it.

madmike
madmike's picture
Offline
Joined: 10/04/2006
Funny King...

it is useless arguing with someone who has the nickname of a toy you would win at a fair, especially when they have a busted seam and their fluff is spewing out.

FALCONS WIN!

G35 Dude
G35 Dude's picture
Offline
Joined: 02/15/2006
A dry fluffy?

There are no dry counties in Arizona.

fluffybear
fluffybear's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/11/2008
I never said there were!

I never said there were!

mudcat
mudcat's picture
Online
Joined: 10/26/2005
goodrain, let me axe you sumpin'

How do you equate buying something at at a package store or a supermarket with drunk driving? Seems to me that drunk drivers can get drunk on whatever they have at home before they go out and drive drunk. Really doesn't matter which day of the week they bought the booze or how long they had the bottle before they opened it.

The Baptists opposed to this new law have been religious - pardon the deliberate pun - about buying their whiskey before the Sabbath. Now they can stop at Kroger on the way home from church and sneak a bottle of wine into their bag of lox and bagels. So what is the harm?

MYTMITE
MYTMITE's picture
Offline
Joined: 02/14/2008
Where do you people get the idea that the minute they pass a law

that you can buy alcohol on Sunday people will be killing themselves on the road, anymore than they would otherwise? I do not drink but I do not think I have the right to tell others what they can or cannot do. So, what is to keep the person who stocks up on Saturday getting soused before they leave the house to go to a game and killing someone then--or how about the people texting and talking on the phone and not paying attention---I think this is a poor excuse for someone trying to impose their religion on someone else. The hypocrites who vote to keep their cities dry, practically run you over to get over into the next country to get their alcohol, either at a restaurant or a grocery store--but then maybe they stock up on Saturday and that makes it okay to hit the bottle at home after church.

NUK_1
NUK_1's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/17/2007
Sunday sales

If anything, it may reduce late Saturday night DUI's. Or not. Or what does the freedom to do something legally have to do with another act that is illegal at any time?

It's not like it was illegal to consume alcohol on Sundays anyway, so how is this going to change anything? Instead of going to bars or restaurants in advanced, non-fundie locales before that served on Sunday and maybe getting drunk and driving, those so inclined to consume too much can buy it(for a lot less than in bars)and consume it at home.

Bars and restaurants are really sad to see their monopoly on selling booze on Sunday end in GA, and lawmakers actually didn't establish another monopoly by taking the asinine approach of allowing only beer and wine package sales on Sunday and instead showed some enlightenment for once. It didn't hurt that they sensed that Sunday sales were going to be overwhelmingly approved in almost every municipality that had it on the ballot either.

Welcome to the Modern Era.

kcchiefandy
kcchiefandy's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/18/2009
People who imbibe...

...are going to do so, and will plan for such. Got some wine, Forty Creek (a fine Canadian whiskey, btw, that rivals Crown but half the price!), and some brews for the Thanksgiving weekend (disclaimer: not ALL for just me, btw!). It's a rare day when I wished I could buy some alcohol on a Sunday because I've run out, and I imagine about 99.9% of the RESPONSIBLE consumers out there are of the same mind. A drunk driver isn't going to suddenly drive drunk on Sunday just because it's NOW available; it'll happen no matter what the day of the week it is.

BTW, as most know, there are MANY other religions in our religiously free society that Sunday means nothing but another day. These laws are tethered to antiquated Christian beliefs of which many of our laws are based; they're good, more or less I believe, but not necessarily equal across the scope of our population. This is a small expansion of allowing freedoms to those who don't recognize Sunday as the 'Lord's Day'.

Recent Comments