1 restaurant gunman found dead; other at-large

These three men are suspected of participating in the armed robbery of the China Cafe restaurant on Friday, Oct. 11. From left are Alvin James Scott, 26, of Jonesboro; Alonzo Starks, 25, of Morrow and Leandro Bernard Johnson, 27, who remains at large. Scott has been arrested and Starks was found dead in an abandoned house in Morrow. Photos courtesy Fayetteville Police Department.

Fayetteville police arrest getaway driver

Fayetteville police have recovered the body of a gunman who was shot when he and another armed man attempted to rob the China Cafe restaurant in Fayetteville late Friday night.

The body of Alonzo Starks, 25, of Morrow, was found in an abandoned house in Morrow, which detectives learned about earlier today when they arrested the getaway driver involved in the heist, police said. The driver was identified as Alvin James Scott, 26, of Jonesboro.

Meanwhile, police have issued warrants for the second gunman who stormed into the back door of the restaurant and shot a restaurant employee, police said. That suspect, identified as Leandro Bernard Johnson, 27, is driving a 2005 burgandy Buick Lacrosse with a drive-out tag, police said.

One of the China Cafe employees fired a shot that struck the deceased gunman in the head, and the other assailant returned fire, hitting the other restaurant employee, police said.

The restaurant employee who was shot remained in critical condition at Grady Memorial Hospital in Atlanta, police said.

The break in the case came from one of Starks' relatives who suspected he was involved in the shooting, police said.

Fayetteville police have been working the case continuously since the incident was first reported at 10:50 p.m. Friday night. Also assisting have been the police departments in Morrow and Clayton County, officials said.

Theprez
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Anotherone bites the Dust

I guessed he heard through the hoodvine about justice in Fayette county, rather die than face trial here. Link to news update
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/3rd-suspect-in-restaurant-robbery-turns-gun...

Spyglass
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Good news.

Let him face a higher judgment.

moelarrycurly
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Good riddance

Leandro.

Fred Garvin
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Great moments in race relations


Brooklyn group of black youths blocks white couple's car, bloody victims in racial attack: cops


A group of 10 black youths — one of them a 12-year-old girl — surrounded a white couple's car in Brooklyn, viciously beating the husband and yanking the wife to the pavement by her hair as they peppered the two with racial slurs, authorities said.

“Get those crackers!” some of them screamed, according to court papers. “Get that white whore!”

No doubt, the black community will blame the tea party or the white community for this racist attack..

Spyglass
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The troll was hungry

And the locals obliged.

Bostonian212
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where is the outrage...

from the Reverends Sharpton and Jackson? Where is the media coverage of this travisty?

pumpkin
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davids mom

Wow! you are so right on DM. I love following you.

Perhaps the writer who suggested they should move would be the right answer and take his other good ole boys that contribute with him.

Dillik
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Your demographic scapegoat

Too many racists to address individually, but here's how this works:

These particular criminals probably had a number of things in common. It's the commonality you choose to pick out and wave around that demonstrates the axe you have to grind. They were male: must be a problem with men. They were from Georgia: must be a problem with Georgia. Did they play football in high school? Football problem. Did they believe in Jesus Christ? Problem with Christians.

But no, you're going with, "They were black." This is your preferred scapegoat because... gasp, do you perhaps have some prejudices against black people? As in, you see a black man waiting to cross the street as you're stopped at a red light. What is he to you? "Thug." "Could be a carjacker." "Probably a deadbeat dad too." Any of those things going through those prejudiced little minds? They come up in comments here.

I ask because, to decent people, that man looks like a human being. A random human being who could be anything, good or bad, as much as you could be (though I admit we're kinda scraping the bottom of the barrel on this site). That you pick out race as the common factor to then apply to other black people at large, yes, does in fact make you a racist. Here's your obligatory pat on the back for not personally lynching anyone or burning any crosses today, but you're still a racist. If you don't have the courage to call yourself one, then stop being one.

Spyglass
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Which metro ATL Counties have the highest crime rates?

What are the demographics of those?

Conversely, which Counties have the lower crime rates ? Same Demo question...

Now where do you live and why?

FYI I own property in one of the worst Counties in the metro in this regard...and there are good people everywhere, but there is a reason for most everything.

Your posts seem to be more self serving than actually fact based, I suppose that gives you a good feeling.

Dillik
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I live here because my family

I live here because my family is here. But yes, I admit the demographics here are a little concerning. For example, I'm concerned to notice that the vast majority of crimes here are committed by Christians.

G35 Dude
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Dillik
Quote:

I'm concerned to notice that the vast majority of crimes here are committed by Christians.

Please provide a link or some back up for this "fact".

Dillik
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Haha, no, see, it was a

Haha, no, see, it was a flippant assertion intended to illustrate the absurdity of extrapolating anything from the ethnicity of Clayton County residents who commit crime (i.e. "Clayton County has a higher crime rate. It's also predominantly black. Therefore blackness is a cause of crime."). Most people in Georgia are Christians (do you need a fact-check for this one?), most criminals are Christian, and so the prior logic suggests Christianity is to blame for crime.

I brought this up for illustrative purposes only, but whatever floats your boat, man:
http://hubpages.com/hub/Religion-and-Crime-in-American-Cities
http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/sapient/atheist_vs_theist/4149

Whether there's ample evidence to show Christians have a higher propensity for crime than non-Christians, I don't especially care. But even if the numbers showed a strong correlation between Christianity and crime, should we conclude there's something about Christianity that causes crime? No, that would be willfully ignorant of possible outside causes. (Metaphor breakdown alert: people can choose their religion but generally not their skin color.)

It doesn't take a lot of creativity or awareness of US history to consider a possible outside cause for African-American poverty (and crime, which is strongly correlated with poverty). Even the barest decency would cause one to interject, "Hey, maybe there's something going on rather than an inherent problem in people who happen to have been born African-American." And yes, I'm aware of the sidestepping whereby racists like to blame "their culture" or "thug mentality," as if that handwaves the stink of racism away. In how many of those cases do these concerned citizens warn of the dangers of assuming a random African-American they encounter fits the stereotypes they have of what "culture" or "mentality" someone must have by virtue of their skin color? How concerned are they about white thugs? (Rhetorical question; white people don't generally use the word "thug" to describe white people because it's less satisfying to dehumanize one's own ethnicity.)

NUK_1
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Boo-hoo

Once you grow up and get out of Mommy's house, maybe you'll learn the distinct differences between "racism" and "bigotry." That will be a start for you. Another breakthrough moment might occur when you stop trolling the Internet with all the goofy angst and utter spew.

You have no idea whether anyone here is a racist or not. You may think they are in fact bigots(and some may be for that matter), but you don't seem to be able to grasp the differences. Try Google.

Dillik
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"We're not racists; we're

"We're not racists; we're bigots." Would make a nice state motto. But, no, hey, semantics are a fun way to protect ourselves from self-criticism. People here may suggest that circumstances facing African-Americans are the result of something innately African-American, but the word "racism" carries too much stigma to possibly be applicable to any of us. Okay, fine, calling it a "cultural" problem is a creative dodge, I'll grant; it might actually be more convincing, though, if the demonized "culture" weren't:

a) a caricature of African-American stereotypes
b) applied only to African-Americans rather than "thugs" of all skin tones
c) applied as if all African-Americans uniformly share this caricatured "culture"

I get it, though. Racism is an ugly word. I'm sure everyone here has their own creative way to complete this statement: "I can't possibly be a racist, because a real racist would ______." I'd enjoy hearing some of these, actually.

LongTimer
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"Cultural Problem" Dallic?

It's Not a Cultural Thing, It's a Personal Thing!
Your Not a White, Black, Yellow or Brown,
Your an AMERICAN.
Start Acting Like It!

Spyglass
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You sound like a College Kid with a lot to learn.

Good luck.

Dillik
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Edit: Never mind; nothing

Edit: Never mind; nothing further is to be gained from this discussion.

Spyglass
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2nd time is the charm...

If you can't answer simple questions, it is hard to have an intelligent conversation.

You see if you would have responded with an answer to my queries, I would have gone on to tell you that Clayton County was its own worst enemy in the 70's...gave developers any zoning they wanted for the smallest houses possible...ie, they were their own worst enemy in the majority of areas. When you fish for the lowest income, you get the lowest income demographic and EVERYTHING that comes with it.

And yes I do agree, that Christians bear watching.

Davids mom
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Your post

Seems intent on denigrating an entire group of Americans. I suppose that makes you feel powerful! Good for you!

Fred Garvin
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Get back to me

White people are 14 times more likely to be victims of crimes perpetrated by black people than white people. Get back to me when that changes. Sure crimes are committed by every race, no one ever said that they weren't. The fact that no one on the left seems to be willing to admit is that blacks commit crimes at a much higher rate than any race in the country. There is nothing racist about that statement, it is purely fact. Get over it.

Here's another example of what happens when you give people that don't deserve it a handout. They will abuse it the first chance they get:

Walmart stores in Louisiana left emptied after EBT system glitch

These cockroaches looted the place.

Dillik
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Of course we all know white

Of course we all know white people don't loot or take advantage of glitches and loopholes.

Davids mom
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Fred Garvin

Black people are 75% more times to be victims of crimes perpetrated by black people. Black on black crime has been documented. Now in places like Vegas - the mob killings are predominantly 'white' on 'white'. The 'cockroaches who looted Figueroa in the 92 'riots' - were truly ALL AMERICAN. White, Hispanic, BLack, - Americans.

The criminals who looted my cousins home in Georgia, and the criminals who bombed my cousins home in Los ANgeles were white. Thank heavens there were 'whites' who prevented me from making the assumption that ALL WHITE PEOPLE WERE criminals who would harm 'black' citizens. It doesn't take a college degree to understand that the color of ones skin does not automatically make one a criminal - racism just doesn't make common sense in 2013.

I walk with caution in any crowded area- regardless of the 'color ' of the crowd. I treat any stranger with caution - regardless of the skin color. The criminal mind is dangerous - and comes surrounded by the skin of any color. I'm happy to be in a 'safe' community like Fayette County - atnd intend to work with my neighbors of all colors to keep it that way

suggarfoot
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Amen Treading Water

"whispering" to each other, then black racists and their black enablers are secretly clapping and cheering every time any black does anything that makes white people uncomfortable, unhappy or that causes any form of white pain or loss."

You are so right. Looks like the head cheerleader made itself some more IDs and talking to itself again. Try to ignore them. They need to pull up their pants and tell their group to quit having babies to get Federal Aid. It is disgusting. Someone who works for SS told me the other day she talked on one with 8 kids and was only 30, had managed to get several of SSI disability. She said she had to go over the woman's aid with her and she was receiving the equivalent of $144,0000. a year. So sad with others are out there working and people like this are making a living laying on their backs.

G35 Dude
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Sugarfoot-Who is who?

I do think that DM is pumpkin. But Dildo is just a bored kid on a computer in Mama's basement that is only here to stir the pot.

Davids mom
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G35
Quote:

a bored kid on a computer in Mama's basement that is only here to stir the pot.

Excellent self-description! There are people participating in this blog who have met me face to face. Adults. Interesting to observe the quality of Americanism and inclusiveness shared by those who appear to ' know' you. Just an observation.

G35 Dude
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DM

Oh I wish I were still a kid. LOL You know there was a time that I would have liked to have met you. But that was before I really got to know you and learn how low you will go to make your point stick.

Davids mom
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See my latest post G35

You don't know me at all. I don't think I would have ever desired to meet you based on your understanding of the universe or the human condition.

Davids mom
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suggarfoot

An expert on the black psyche - who knew? LOL!! Fortunately - we all know that suggarfoot does not represent the thinking of most Americans who happen to be white.

G35 Dude
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So many experts
Quote:

An expert on the black psyche - who knew? LOL!

This quote is brought to you from the self proclaimed expert on white psyche. LOL

Davids mom
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G35

DM's expertise:

Quote:

Let's support the groups of all colors who encourage family values; education; the practice of 'do unto others'; etc., etc.

This so-called expertise is for humans - occupants of the planet. Won't you join us G35?

Now follow your friends advice and please ignore me! Ignore=no reference to me in your intelligent contributions. Thanks!

G35 Dude
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DM
Quote:

This so-called expertise is for humans - occupants of the planet. Won't you join us G35?

Now follow your friends advice and please ignore me! Ignore=no reference to me in your intelligent contributions. Thanks!

I responded because you addressed a post to me. As for joining you in anything..... No thanks!!!! But I will say that "by your definition" you can be an expert on the white psyche but white's can't understand blacks. Interesting!

Davids mom
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g35

Whites and blacks have worked together in this country - and yes - in the south for generations, I don't know where you get the idea that I consider myself an expert on the psyche of 'white' people. I base some of my statements on the white people in my family, my church, my community, my educational experience. From this experience - I know that a single statement regarding white or black people- when it comes to race relations - will not be totally true. I don't think you represent a 'white psyche' - just a human who has had limited experience with those of different attitudes and 'possibly' skin color. Hope I'm wrong. However, it is disturbing that you reject joining the other humans on the planet because of an invitation from an old black woman! LOL

G35 Dude
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DM-You are consistent
Quote:

I don't think you represent a 'white psyche' - just a human who has had limited experience with those of different attitudes and 'possibly' skin color.

Now it's my turn to tell you that you don't know me at all. LOL Funny how you seem to think that you have all the answers yet can't even follow your own advice. You are a hypocrite that flip flops on topics constantly. And you seem obsessed with a naive, childish, immature, white man that turned on you because you were caught making untrue racist statements like: One day Fayetteville is a great place for all to live in harmony. On another it is a bastion of white supremacy. Then most Americans want Obamacare. When proven wrong using polls, you try to discredit polls as a source of information. Then you site polls to back you up even when you mis-quote them. Like the GOP having a 5% approval rating when it's Congress as a whole that has a 5% approval rating. The GOP is/was around 30%. I could go on but I think you have the idea. Go make up some more "facts" so you can enlighten us with your high intellect. LOL

Davids mom
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G35
Quote:

high intellect.

Your assumption.

Polls: I didn't discredit them - just pointed out that depending on who is conducting them/or responding to them - they do not always reflect reality. You are always constant, correct, knowledgeable , proper, cute?, articulate, - gosh I'm so jealous. Facts I didn't 'make up': Obama won. Romney lost. Republicans are being blamed for the 'government shutdown'. There are still those who operate under racist ideas in our country. FACT: I love it here in Fayetteville, GA - with my neighbors from all generations, genders, RACE, religions, etc., etc., etc. FACT All black people are not criminals - and not all white people think all black people are criminals. Now why would a little 'ole black woman enjoy watching little 'ole white men get upset? Because I am still amazed that there are men who are so insecure in their own standing in this country that they have to denigrate/demonize an entire race of people who first arrived in this country in the 1500's; a race of people who have been involved in the development of this country since their arrival; a race of people who were not all slaves; a race of people who continue to contribute to the greatness of this country - but like other 'minorities' their contributions have not been integrated into the history of this country - but taught separately in a separate but equal? historical account until recently. Please continue your reply to my statements - they allow me to uncover the insecurities and prejudices that we both have because of a history of 'separate but equal' philosophy that was proven false. My grandchildren are past this ignorance. They truly judge on character - and they know that criminals and ignorance comes in all colors. Their integrated experience has proven this.

G35 Dude
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DM-You are consistent 2

Can you not comprehend that my problem is not with black people? It is with you! Not because you have different ideas but because you are willing to mis lead, mis quote, lie, resort to name calling or whatever you need to do to further your agenda. And I'm insecure, naive, childish, etc because I called you on it. I must be getting under your skin a little huh? LOL

Davids mom
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G35

Nope - just validating my impression of your insecurities. Do you really think that I am misleading when I remind you that Obama won? Interesting. LOL! You are fun to play with!

G35 Dude
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DM-I love you too!

The great DM thinks I'm insecure. How can I ever go on????? ROTFLMAO

suggarfoot
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g35

Just remember it is nuts and everyone has given up talking to it. You were the nicest and it still attacked you.

There are too many nice things in this world to worry about something so filled with hate. David's Mom is just something vile, filled with green ugly, stinky puss. Don't let it ooz on you. It likes that, then its putrid smell can ruin the rest of your day. That makes
it feels it has accomplished something in its small little world.

G35 Dude
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Suggarfoot-It's fun !

I know you're right. But I kinda enjoy watching her squirm and try to defend her flip flops etc. And I know I'm bothering her when she starts the name calling. I guess I really should just let it be.

Davids mom
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suggarfoot's contributions

Thanks - a validation of the 'little men/women' that are insecure in their 'standing' in our country. Sometimes it is difficult to love ones neighbor as oneself.

apatheticjester
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You are completely insane.

It isn't just black people having tons of babies they can't afford and racking up govt support. Maybe if the right wing backed off opposing birth control and sex education we would have less of that going on.

suggarfoot
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http://www.chron.com/life/mom

http://www.chron.com/life/mom-houston/article/72-of-black-babies-born-to...

http://inamerica.blogs.cnn.com/2012/05/17/census-2011-data-confirm-trend...

They are born to welfare Moms. Whites don't rely of gov to feed them and their kids. They only have a number they can support. Why? They are more responsible.

Davids mom
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Suggarfoot's contributions
Quote:

Whites don't rely of gov to feed them and their kids. They only have a number they can support. Why? They are more responsible.

Another fact-based/non-racist opinion from a true intellect. Thank you!

From an article shared by suggarfoot"

Quote:

One recent day at Dr. Natalie Carroll's OB-GYN practice, located inside a low-income Houston apartment complex tucked between a gas station and a freeway, 12 pregnant black women come for consultations. Some bring their children or their mothers. Only one brings a husband

Guess what a physician would report if their office was located in a low-income area 'tucked between a gas station and a freeway' - where 'white' people lived. Contrary to the obvious inexperience of some here - there are poor white people in the US who are on welfare. There are blacks in FC who are educated, employed, and not on welfare. Racist statements are not acceptable - as many made me aware when I made a derogatory statement about 'white' men in pick-up trucks. All persons should have the opportunity to live in an integrated southern community in 2013 and be involved in issues that have no racial overtones whatsoever. This is the American dream - realized.

Treading Water
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The black community glamorizes thuggery and crime

The black community glamorizes thuggery and crime via hip-hop and rap music. I am still waiting for the "black people already living in Fayette County" and everywhere else in this nation who "do a really good job of looking and sounding like ordinary, decent human beings" to join forces with the NAACP - en-mass step up, speak out and boycott gangster rap and hip-hop. I am talking about outrage and boycott on the level that Paula Deen endured.

I am also waiting for the same kind of backlash and boycott of thug black athletes who make millions of dollars playing games but commit any number of criminal acts annually (usually violent and gun-related). So much for the argument put forth here that black criminals are economically created. Let's see the moral black community unite and take a "Bill Cosby" type stand against these millionaire criminal athletes. Let's see the outrage as visibly and hear it as loudly as the noise that was made when Riley Cooper uttered the "N" word.

But this will never happen. Racism in any form is totally acceptable by the black community as long it is being practiced by blacks. The belief being practicing racism is a right the black community earned. It is a form of reparation the culture and community believe it is due.

If white racists are secretly "whispering" to each other, then black racists and their black enablers are secretly clapping and cheering every time any black does anything that makes white people uncomfortable, unhappy or that causes any form of white pain or loss.

This is the reality of the situation.

Davids mom
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Treading water - just drowned

.

Quote:

Racism in any form is totally acceptable by the black community as long it is being practiced by blacks. The belief being practicing racism is a right the black community earned. It is a form of reparation the culture and community believe it is due.

Please believe me, this miscreant does not speak for the 'black community'. Thank heavens for MLK and his guidance based on non-violence, respect, and love. If you associate with criminals who happen to be black, you may feel that all black people are like them. If you associate with church members, friends, neighbors who happen to be black, then I don 't think they are criminals - but part of the FC 'black community' if such a separatist community exists. The community I belong to includes whites, blacks, Hispanics, Native Americans and Asian Americans. There are representatives of all these groups in Georgia and Fayette County.

I am very proud to belong to organizations that fought for civil rights and worked to encourage the black community to use the opportunities that the end of segregation made possible.

Davids mom
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The white community glamorizes

illicit sex; gambling; infidelity; etc., etc., etc. Gosh - why not - it sells newspapers and movies!! You are insane!!!

PaperbakWriter
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Let's ask...

The NAACP what they plan to do about this crime problem that (mysteriously) always involves perps from their community. Let's ask them what THEY plan to do to bring family values back to THEIR community.

Because if it stays this way, you'll see white-flight in PTC and Fayette County; it WILL become the next Clayton County; and anyone left with anything but black skin will get screwed one way or the other.

Davids mom
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Let's ask the

'white power' groups what they plan to do about:
1. the white students who buy drugs from the 'black' thugs from Riverdale
2. the 'porn' industry - which caters predominently to 'white' clients
3. etc., etc, etc.

Let's support the groups of all colors who encourage family values; education; the practice of 'do unto others'; etc., etc., etch

The end of segregation opened the eyes of some to the reality of judging humans by their character rather than their skin color. It would have been sad if all 'black' people judged all 'white' people by the actions of those who celebrated hangings; supported beatings of 'blacks' who 'got out of line' without the benefit of legal justice; who dared to look a 'white' person in the eye or not step aside to let a 'white' person pass. Those days have passed. In Fayetteville and PTC. whites and blacks enjoy the services of those citizens who provide education to their children, healthcare, retail services, etc. Open your eyes, the citizens of Fayette County who are not 'white' fit the demographics of most of the citizens in the county. Some have even been supportive of the GOP in Fayette County - and conservative values. This may continue - but nationally, the GOP continues to lose the support of minorities, women, and our youth (the future of our country) Why? Conservative values appear to be tinged with racism..

apatheticjester
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The NAACP is not some sort of black community tribal council.

The NAACP lobbies and invests in legal challenges just like thousands of other interest groups in the United States.

As a white dude in Fayette County, it would have to get about 5 times scarier before I would run away. White flight is just not going to be a problem here. Our greatest next decade problem will probably be the price of gas and the fact that we haven't set up mass transit connections to Atlanta in the meantime.

Taylor Mickey
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I am willing to bet that

I am willing to bet that there are factors that are more to blame than race in the commission of crime. If I had to guess I would say that these criminals had a few common traits with most other criminals (white or black). I bet they came from broken homes with no father figure or a father figure with serious flaws such as addiction or criminal activity. I bet these guys went to a failing or poorly performing school. I bet some of these guys failed to graduate. I bet most of these men grew up in poverty or something close to it.

Have you tried to help these problems? Do you volunteer as a "big brother"? Do you try to develop young people to succeed in life? It isn't "their" problem. It is our problem and until we start to realize that we will be in a perpetual state of conflict.

Writing this I realize that I am in a poor position to judge as I only do a little bit, but I can tell you one thing I don't judge them for what color they were born. I am really getting tired of telling people who aren't from the south that "it really isn't racist here" only to have them point to posts on the internet like yours. Either work to fix the problem or quit whining about it on the internet.

/rant

EDIT: After writing I realized that when saying "I don't judge them for what color they were born" I should have said "I don't judge criminals for what color they were born but by the actions they commit." Sorry. That was a poor choice of wording.

local_guy
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public defender, are you?

even if all that bs about broken homes and father figures is true it doesnt give anyone the right to be a criminal.
if a person has a bad childhood experience it doesnt make it ok for them to become a child molester.
my dad left us when i was in 5th grade. my mom worked night shift to feed three of us. we were very poor and at times there was no food in the house.
non of us are criminals so i dont buy that sad story that you made up.

Davids mom
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President of US

Raised by a single mom; adoring grandparents from Kansas; - didn't become a criminal; dealing with the problems of our country and the world with dignity and SUCCESS. (In spite of the minority of citizens who disagree with him - he won two elections readily.)

Theprez
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Dignity and Sucess???

Yes that is why our economy is down the toilet. The man is in over his head. If he could run again he would win again because to many people voted for him for all the wrong reason. Black and white voters alike that are looking for handouts carried the last two elections. Don't send a meeting planner to do the job of commander in chief. The man is intelligent but in so deep he can't tell his ass from his elbow

Davids mom
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Theprez

Thanks for sharing your opinion. As certain politicians were attempting to hold our country hostage in order to get their way- this president and his advisors continued to operate like the leading country on the globe; continuing to bring terrorists to justice , etc. We have now got to operate as a leading country, implement a budget that does not require us to raise the debt limit every year ; (it appears our Congressmen are unaware of the debt they approve ;) pay our bills; confer with each other and act on areas of agreement. The strategy of making Obama fail has failed. Clinton left a surplus; Bush left a mess. By not working cooperatively, we are taking too long to get out of this mess. I thank our lady leaders and our moderates for being the adults in the room. Local Republicans are serving their communities - but nationally, Republican leadership is questionable.

LongTimer
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DM - Obama's Family

Isn't true that he was raised in a White household of Upper Middle Class means, his Grandmother being a Bank VP in Hawaii? Raised in Indonesia and Hawaii attending the Punahou School, a private college preparatory school. Not exactly the same as whats being talked about here.

Davids mom
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Long timer

His mother was a single parent, his grandparents were hardworking white Americans, ( his grandmother started out as a secretary and earned the title of VP. - his grandfather was a WWII vet.) They were not then and would not be considered now as upper middle class. They valued education and sacrificed to give the best to their daughter and grands. They moved to Hawaii for employment reasons and an accepting attitude towards race. Obama's proud grandparents were not upper middle class. Their daughter had married an African, and bore them an African American grandchild. They chose to live in an accepting environment in these United States. A good book to read is A Singular Mother - the story of Obama's mother.

PTC Observer
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DM - to be

Precise, he won the majority of the votes.

We'll see how many votes the supporters of the AHCA get in the upcoming elections after the citizens begin paying the bill.

My guess it will come down to that one issue, people aren't going to be happy about the costs of this "visionary" law.

Davids mom
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PTCO

Let's hope that lessons have been learned from this latest fiasco - and the adults in the room will work together to provide affordable healthcare to American citizens, entitlement reform, immigration reform, living within the budget, jobs, infrastructure, etc., etc., etc. The country needs leadership from the legislative AND executive branches of government and hopefully we have elected representatives who have the intelligence to work for those who elected them and not those who feel they have paid for the office.

PTC Observer
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DM - As

As philosopher Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel aptly said,

“What experience and history teaches us is that people and governments have never learned anything from history, or acted on principles deduced from it.”

Our liberty, our individual liberty, has been and continues to be under attack by "well meaning" fools.

Davids mom
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PTCO - The Law

Philosophers and prophets have been saying the same thing since the 'written word' was shared. In our country, with its Judaic/Christian basis,The Ten Commandments/Moses - and The Beatitudes/Jesus - if followed, would help man to live on this planet in peace. Just think, if just two commandments were followed, there would be no war and no divorce! Identify the fools, get them under control, and move on! That has helped this country throughout history. The 'fools' of today - are not well intentioned, but bent on obstruction IMHO. There is no reason why Americans cannot work together to solve our problems under the guidance of our Constitution. (Well - there is a reason - but I don't accept that as a final example of our way of life) LOL!

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A Country Founded by Geniuses but Run by Idiots

If you can get arrested for hunting or fishing without a license, but not for entering and remaining in the country illegally —
you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If you have to get your parents’ permission to go on a field trip or to take an aspirin in school, but not to get an abortion —
you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If you MUST show your identification to board an airplane, cash a check, buy liquor, or check out a library book and rent a video, but not to vote for who runs the government —
you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If the government wants to prevent stable, law-abiding citizens from owning gun magazines that hold more than ten rounds, but gives twenty F-16 fighter jets to the crazy new leaders in Egypt —
you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If, in the nation’s largest city, you can buy two 16-ounce sodas, but not one 24-ounce soda, because 24-ounces of a sugary drink might make you fat —
you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If an 80-year-old woman or a three-year-old girl who is confined to a wheelchair can be strip-searched by the TSA at the airport, but a woman in a burka or a hijab is only subject to having her neck and head searched —
you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If your government believes that the best way to eradicate trillions of dollars of debt is to spend trillions more —
you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If a seven-year-old boy can be thrown out of school for saying his teacher is “cute,” but hosting a sexual exploration or diversity class in grade school is perfectly acceptable —
you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If hard work and success are met with higher taxes and more government regulation and intrusion, while not working is rewarded with Food Stamps, WIC checks, Medicaid benefits, subsidized housing, and free cell phones —
you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If the government’s plan for getting people back to work is to provide incentives for not working, by granting 99 weeks of unemployment checks, without any requirement to prove that gainful employment was diligently sought, but couldn’t be found —
you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If you pay your mortgage faithfully, denying yourself the newest big-screen TV, while your neighbor buys iPhones, time shares,
a wall-sized do-it-all plasma screen TV and new cars, and the government forgives his debt when he defaults on his mortgage —
you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If being stripped of your Constitutional right to defend yourself makes you more “safe” according to the government —
you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

stranger than f...
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Items Omitted by Mr. Garvin in his Rant

Mr. Garvin, I have a few more additions to your polemic:

If your government starts a war with Iraq postulating nonexistent weapons of mass destruction and never admits the error — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If your president establishes a Medicare drug benefit with no possible means to fund it — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If your government bases laws on the last 14 words of the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution while completely ignoring the first 13 words of the same amendment – you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If your government passes laws requiring incarceration of nonviolent criminals for decades without any discretion by local judges at astronomical costs – you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If your government allows billionaires virtually to buy elections with unlimited contributions to any whimsical candidate or party – you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If your government allows gerrymandered districts which blatantly favor one party over another by segregating the opposing party’s voters in single districts– you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If your government allows states severely to restrict access to abortion while balking at paying for these unwanted children after they are born to poor parents – you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.

If your party castigates all non-Caucasians while the demographics of the country are changing to assure that your party will never win a national election – you might live with a party established by Lincoln but run by idiots.

If your party hates the President so vehemently that they make unfounded claims about his birthplace and religion – you might live with a party established by Lincoln but run by idiots.

If your party shuts down the government for ideological reasons while sinking like stones in all national polls and elevating the President’s standing among all but rabid conservatives – you might live with a party established by Lincoln but run by idiots.

If your party denies all the findings of modern science – you might live with a party established by Lincoln but run by idiots.

If your party denies homosexuals the rights of matrimony against the will of the majority of voters that they need to win the next election – you might live with a party established by Lincoln but run by idiots.

If your party considers the unbridled propaganda presented by Fox “News,” Matt Drudge, and Rush Limbaugh as objective reporting – you might live with a party established by Lincoln but run by idiots.

I hope you enjoyed my contingent statements as much as I did yours!

Davids mom
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STF and Fred Garvin

Gentlemen, you have identified the idiocy. Thank you. Can you take just one of the issues you identified and suggest an intelligent solution to the problem it presents? I know you can - and I feel our elected leaders can also! Solutions based on reality and intelligence and not politics A small group of politicians in both parties don't get the message that the American people are tired of the political strategies and want results - or will seek a change in 2014.

If my political party, according to Gallup, had a 5% approval rating, I would hope the party would change strategies!!!

PTC Observer
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DM - I don't get it

Why are Democrats so worried about the Republicans self destruction?

If they self destruct they self destruct, something else will replace them. It certainly won't be anything that resembles the current Republican Party, that's for certain.

The question then becomes, will that new party be able to win elections?

If not, the the Dems will take over the government completely, isn't that the point of the entire exercise? Total control of the government and extinguishing all opposition? Seems that's what the Progressives want to do. It's the only way that socialism can work.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, it's inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." W. Churchill

Who says we aren't on this road DM?

G35 Dude
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PTCO-You make good points

I originally posted this in another topic. But it seems to fit here as well. I really believe that this is whats happening:

The American people as a group are too soft. We've been spoiled. It's going to take a lot of effort to make significant changes and we as a group are not up for it. The life span of democracies is 200-250 years historically. This one is now 236. The following unverified quote is credited to Alexander Fraser Tytler.

Quote:

A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.

Certain people have found a way to vote themselves gifts from the Government treasury. The outlook is not good.

Davids mom
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PTCO
Quote:

If not, the the Dems will take over the government completely, isn't that the point of the entire exercise? Total control of the government and extinguishing all opposition? Seems that's what the Progressives want to do. It's the only way that socialism can work.

Our founding fathers wanted checks and balances rather than a 'take over' dictatorship. The opposition strategy was supposedly a 'check and balance' strategy. Your definition of socialism includes many of the attributes of our 'democracy'. When the members of our national government follow the steps for passing a bill that every fifth grader learns - which includes the two bodies of Congress working together- we will be on the path to progress - progressives and conservatives working for the American people rather than political party. . . or rich individuals. So many have been affected by the 'shut down' that IMO we will see even more citizens using their power at the voting booth in both 2014 and 2016.

In response to your question, there are Democrats and Republicans who are working together in this difficult ideological climate in Washington. It looks like, hopefully, they are being listened to. Students of government, IMO, do not want to see a 'take over' by either or one political party. This is one Democrat who does not support total party take over - majority? Yes! LOL

stranger than f...
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I hope for GOP reform rather than self-destruction

I personally want a strong opposition party to the Democrats as a logical check to absolute power. I remember the GOP before the tea party and religious right hijacked it. A pragmatic, fiscally conservative party that steers clear of ridiculous stances on social issues (abortion, gay marriage, guns, etc.) could regain a national majority. The Ted Cruz version hasn't a prayer.

PTC Observer
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STF - really?

Really? You remember a Republican Party like that?

When exactly was that period of time?

How about the results of this alleged Party platform?

No, STF we don't need this type of party. We don't need a Conservative party, we need something quite different to rollback the Socialist Party's gains against personal freedom. We need a new way of approaching the ever increasing encroachment of government power over our lives and liberty.

Perhaps, we may get it, but it's not likely with government educated sheepel voting for wealth redistribution.

Davids mom
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PTCO/STF
Quote:

No, STF we don't need this type of party. We don't need a Conservative party, we need something quite different to rollback the Socialist Party's gains against personal freedom. We need a new way of approaching the ever increasing encroachment of government power over our lives and liberty.

I remember more than one political ideology represented in both parties. I remember when members of Congress looked for issues they could support - because this gave them the leverage for getting support from a member of the 'other ' party. I remember when they actually talked to each other! PTCO, what makes women, minorities, and the youth suspicious is the use of such terms as 'rollback gains'. We have heard that used against Civil Rights gains; women' s gains, marriage gains, etc. - which for many in this country are gains in personal freedom.

meanoldconservatives
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You couldn't even make this up, if you tried.....
Davids mom wrote:

Gentlemen, you have identified the idiotsy......

If my political party, according to Gallup, had a 5% approval rating, I would hope the party would change strategies!!!

The definition of irony: the use of words to express something other than and especially the opposite of the literal meaning. The intellectually superior DM, pontificating on current events as usual, attempts to cast aspersions on the "idiocy" of the situation.

I hear Websters makes a nice resource that you might check out.....oh, I see you must have found it.

Davids mom
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Moc, g35, Mytimite

I know you have selective sources for your 'facts' - just wanted to share with some readers other sources.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/09/congress-approval-rating_n_4069...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/congress/ap-gfk-poll-republicans-...

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/...

Now, I will try to follow my own advice, and not address you personally - but of course I will continue to express my opinion.
Have a great day!

meanoldconservatives
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DRM

Pitiful attempt to spin out of what you stated as fact here. This is what you wrote earlier:

"How about that 5% approval rating of the national Republican Party according to Gallup?"

You stated the Republican Party has an approval rating of 5%, and you quoted your source as Gallup. I simply went to Gallup and showed you where they state the party approval rating is 28%. The "selective source" I used was the very one you referenced.

Go read the links you provided yourself. Helpful hint for you: Congress and the Republican Party are not the same thing. Just own up to it. Just admit you flat out misrepresented the ratings and figured nobody would call you on it. Or, just admit that you thought Congress and the Republican Party were the same entities. Which one was it DRM?????

Davids mom
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Moc

Take a deep breath - and move on. The readers who care to read our drivel can read. Enjoy the changing leaves.

MYTMITE
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dm, while moc and g35 are probably lovely people whos' company

I would probably enjoy; why are you including me in your posts to them? I have not been involved in any of that conversation. The only thing I did ask, which I have not found an answer to was: Are you prejudiced against Section 8 people? Are they not just down on their luck people who have probably been held down for years by 'the man'. So, are you prejudiced against them? From your previous post you seem to be.

Davids mom
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Mytimite

No, I'm not prejudiced against the majority of those who have Section 8 housing that I have met. I am disgusted with those who take advantage of the break they get withSection 8 and not accept the responsibility of maintaining the property. I'm also disgusted with the 'government not doing a better job of assisting section 8 occupants with training in household management and upkeep. In today's economy, there will be responsible renters who have homeowner skills.

Davids mom
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moc's point

The mistake in spelling - what? Can't articulate regarding the 5% approval rating? Save your time little man - your insecurity, like G35's, is showing. What do you care what I think? How about that 5% approval rating of the national Republican Party according to Gallup?

G35 Dude
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DM-Double standard
Quote:

your insecurity, like G35's,

I'm to ignore you but you not me? Typical DM double standard. Just like Obama. I give you Obamacare but I don't have to use it myself!!!!! LOL Thats just for the little people!!!

meanoldconservatives
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Davids Racist Mom

Since I happen to know how FOS you are, I went to the Gallup website and this is from the October 9th article by Andrew Dugan, referencing their latest poll:

"WASHINGTON, D.C. -- With the Republican-controlled House of Representatives engaged in a tense, government-shuttering budgetary standoff against a Democratic president and Senate, the Republican Party is now viewed favorably by 28% of Americans, down from 38% in September. This is the lowest favorable rating measured for either party since Gallup began asking this question in 1992."

Did you catch that last sentence, goofball? Not saying 28% is good. Just saying that you and your 5% claims are simply "idiotsy".

But, you're right about one thing. I don't care what you think. I wasn't articulating a response to your drivel. I was getting a kick out of your stupidity. You question people's intelligence here all the time and have actually issued IQ challenges. And then you come on here, just dumb as a stump and can't even spell idiocy. Go dream up some more poll numbers, you senile old fool.....

Davids mom
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G35

Wow! Feel better? LOL

G35 Dude
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MOC

Don't bother DM with facts. She creates her own.

meanoldconservatives
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G35

It's pathetic and embarrassing, but not to her. Makes framing your arguments easier I guess.....

MYTMITE
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MOC, did you happen to read the response from Paul Rice in the

Response to Recent Conversation column on page A14 of today's AJC? Mr. Rice was responding re: an article written by Justice Leah Ward Sears column on human rights.

To quote Mr. Rice: "My objection is her (Sears) inference that it is white Americans who have not honestly embraced the past. The people I see who have not honestly embraced the past, and especially the past 50 years, are those whose relevance depends upon seeing racism behind every tree, under every rock and in every gesture, 'code word' and off hand remark."

When I read this I wondered if perhaps Mr. Rice was a frequent reader of these blogs, sure sounds like he has read the drivel constantly espoused by several of our usual posters, or at least one.

meanoldconservatives
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MYTMITE, I did not see that

But, it is a good possiblity. One would hope that he is a frequent Citizen reader and has sampled the drivel and not had his own encounters. Wonder if Justice Sears goes to public events to see how whitey reacts to minorities and then reports to the AJC?

Davids mom
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Moc, Mytimite g35

Polls: had Romney winning! Only intelligent citizens would base all reality on polls - right?

It is interesting that only the self-proclaimed non-racists use the derogatory term 'whitey' in their sharing. Students of today are learning how to address all Americans using respectful descriptive terms. We are moving past this 'racial' separation in public discourse. The little child shall lead us! Thanks kids!

G35 Dude
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DM-Can't stop can you?
Quote:

Polls: had Romney winning! Only intelligent citizens would base all reality on polls - right?

Is this the same poll that kept saying that all americans wanted Obamacare? (Except for a few on this blog?)LOL

Davids mom
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For those who base their opinion on polls
Davids mom
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From Rasmussen
Quote:

Most voters still don’t like the new national health care law but also say it has had no impact on them so far

Right. The majority of Americans who are working have health insurance. The Affordable Health Care Act is for those citizens who cannot afford healthcare - and are without insurance..

jokerman
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Please explain

How does a party castigate all non-Caucasians? Please provide specific examples. I anxiously await your reply.

stranger than f...
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Examples requested by the Joker

Jokerman, thanks for asking.

The most egregious examples of GOP racial intolerance is for African-Americans. Their disdain for the President is evident in the nonsense perpetuated by constantly questioning where he was born, impugning his intellectual ability, and asserting Islam as his religion. The list of indignities routinely advanced toward POTUS seems endless.

African-Americans seem very offended by the ubiquitous assertion that Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are their leaders. These men have long-ago ceased to matter at all to the vast majority of Blacks, but the GOP trots them out as “typical black leaders” constantly. The most offensive GOP strategy appears to be honoring the Uncle Toms. Obama received 93% of the African-American vote in 2012; however, the GOP promotes a Thomas Sowell, Ben Carson, or Clarence Thomas as somehow proof that Blacks agree with them.

The GOP’s Hispanic problem largely centers around their tendency to use a very broad brush in disparaging immigration. So eager to please their white base, Republicans refuse to deal realistically with the Senate-passed immigration bill and vilify Hispanics as derelict because some came here illegally. Hispanics voted for Obama at the clip of 71%. See how this polls:

http://publicreligion.org/research/graphic-of-the-week/hispanics-and-the...

Obama received 73% of the Asian vote in 2012. Because the GOP has become so radical in their stance on immigration, many very bright Asians (and other foreigners) who are educated in the USA are having problems gaining the right to stay here and work. Microsoft had to set up a division in Vancouver because Canada is more sane in their immigration laws.

These are but a few examples. Even if one passes these off as perceptions rather than substantive, it still has a devastating effect on the GOP.

Cyclist
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STF
stranger than fiction wrote:

African-Americans seem very offended by the ubiquitous assertion that Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are their leaders. These men have long-ago ceased to matter at all to the vast majority of Blacks, but the GOP trots them out as “typical black leaders” constantly.

That's interesting, if what you say is true then why does the Demos keep projecting them as black leaders?

Quote:

The most offensive GOP strategy appears to be honoring the Uncle Toms.

Is that your description of them or someone else’s?

As for the future direction of the Repubs, I hear you and I'm sure that discussion has taken place. I suspect there might be some fracturing within the GOP where the more conservative players might end up as a smaller caucus. Time will tell.

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