77-acre annexation request on PTC Council’s agenda

Approval depends on 3 members who campaigned against annexations in 2009

A 77-acre parcel that was zoned more than a decade ago by Fayette County for commercial, office and residential use on the city’s southern border — a rezoning opposed at that time by the Peachtree City Council because it violated the county’s land use plan — is now up for annexation by a different City Council.

And this time, both city staff and a split city Planning Commission say the council should say yes. The annexation and rezoning request is on the council’s Thursday night agenda.

Three of the five council members opposed such annexations when they ran for office in 2009. In answering detailed questions from The Citizen, council members Eric Imker, Kim Learnard and Vanessa Fleisch at that time came out unequivocally against further annexations after the West Village was brought into the city during a controversial annexation and rezoning of hundreds of acres.

“Annexing more land to build additional housing is obviously going to hurt existing unsold homes,” then-candidate Imker wrote in a letter to The Citizen July 21, 2009.

“After the approximately 1,400 [West Village] homes are built, I do not see any reason to expand the city limits through annexation. Adding more homes would cost the city a great deal in infrastructure and services that would always be a part of our budget. Continually planning for expanding fire, police, and cart paths while annexing in more land will wreak havoc on the budgeting process,” then-candidate Fleisch wrote to The Citizen on Oct. 27, 2009.

“Even an annexation that at first glance appears to be a cost benefit due to building permits and impact fees can end up costing a city millions of dollars over time,” then-candidate Learnard wrote to The Citizen on Oct. 27, 2009.

All three, however, raised no objections to the proposal in July when they granted the applicant’s request for consideration.

The proposal calls for two lots to be used for offices and 90 lots for residences on the 77 acres. The developer pledges to deed to the city a pond, greenbelt and buffers totaling 27 acres and road rights of way totaling nearly 10 acres.

The developer estimates a five-year net revenue increase to the city of $401,392 in taxes and fees if the annexation is approved as requested.

CORRECTION — The line above in the earlier online version misattributed the revenue estimate to city staff. The estimate is from the developer. The city's estimate was not available as of Monday afternoon.

Larry Sussberg
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2nd Thoughts on Annexation-PTC COUNCIL

For thought and consideration....

1-What is the real economic impact on this annexation?
1 to 5 years out, 5 to 10 years out. The argument against it normally is cost of fire and police. Well we just added 2 more patrol officers and the southern PTC firehouse may well be able to handle it. PTC Council should review the economic impact numbers carefully.

2-The comprehensive plan and land use plan needs to be considered but let's remember this property is directly on one of PTCs gateways (entrances). Do we want another shopping center there competing with the center already inside PTC just 50 yards away? Do we want a factory there (remember that was proposed). What is the developer offering in return, sewage for Mead field, cart path tunnel for safety...

There is nothing wrong if a council member reviews all of the options and makes a good decision for Peachtree City especially if it is economically feasible.Granted, the comprehensive plan and land use plan must always be considered and a major part of the decision making process. When exceptions are made, the precedence that is set weakens the plans making them harder to defend so all factors should be reviewed and considered

Hey Josh, instead of holding elected people to what they promise, how about holding them accountable for SMART decisions.

I urge PTC Council to do the research, then make an informed decision that right for our community.

Josh Bloom
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Agreed With Larry Sussberg
Larry Sussberg wrote:

For thought and consideration....

1-What is the real economic impact on this annexation?
1 to 5 years out, 5 to 10 years out. The argument against it normally is cost of fire and police. Well we just added 2 more patrol officers and the southern PTC firehouse may well be able to handle it. PTC Council should review the economic impact numbers carefully.

2-The comprehensive plan and land use plan needs to be considered but let's remember this property is directly on one of PTCs gateways (entrances). Do we want another shopping center there competing with the center already inside PTC just 50 yards away? Do we want a factory there (remember that was proposed). What is the developer offering in return, sewage for Mead field, cart path tunnel for safety...

There is nothing wrong if a council member reviews all of the options and makes a good decision for Peachtree City especially if it is economically feasible.Granted, the comprehensive plan and land use plan must always be considered and a major part of the decision making process. When exceptions are made, the precedence that is set weakens the plans making them harder to defend so all factors should be reviewed and considered

Hey Josh, instead of holding elected people to what they promise, how about holding them accountable for SMART decisions.

I urge PTC Council to do the research, then make an informed decision that right for our community.

Larry,

Absolutely agree with everything you said.

First, for the most part I am trying to get ahead of this annexation before votes are cast. That is the reason of digging up campaign statements from the past. I have no idea how the council is going to vote on the issues, but it never hurts to shine a light on the issue with relevant statements from the past.

Second, What I think is on the table from the developer is that they will build a southern gateway into the city along with mx on that gateway for 20 years. Building cart paths that connect to the community, and building restrooms for Meade Field.

Last but not least, I have no problems with council voting for what makes the best sense, but I am watching closely as to the reasons for anybody on the council voting YES and their reasons for it. I obviously think that this annexation is a bad idea. No one has given me a good enough reason to change my mind, and if that reason comes up I will have no problem switching sides in this issue.

Again, here is a rundown as to why I think this is a bad idea.
1. Does not fit into the current Land Use Plan (This is a big one for me)
2. We need this space for a job producing neighbor
3. If re-zoned to residential it will only add more problems to Falcon Field (regardless of a stipulation to the deed)
4. If re-zoned to residential it will ultimately cost PTC more money going out than bringing in.

Josh

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Question Josh

Regarding your number 2 - "We need this space for a job producing neighbor". If the property is not annexed, then how can the PTC Council have any control over what goes there? The county could approve a 20 pump, 24 hour Racetrac that employs 2 minimum wage employees per shift, or something equally incompatible with the land use plan. And the PTC council will not have any input.

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Answer for Busy Bee

True that if not annexed by PTC then the county has ultimate say over the property, but the Fayette County Development Authority I am sure would have a negative view of such an operation. There are risks in every decision, but personally I would like to keep the land as is and see what transpires.

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Answer for Busy Bee

True that if not annexed by PTC then the county has ultimate say over the property, but the Fayette County Development Authority I am sure would have a negative view of such an operation. There are risks in every decision, but personally I would like to keep the land as is and see what transpires.

Robert W. Morgan
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Hmmmmm Josh, we need to talk about Fay Co Dev Authority

Their job is to go out and sell businesses on coming into the county. They are not an approving or disapproving Authority, despite what the name may imply. That Racetrack will get approved and built and FCDA will read about it in the newspaper. Frady, Hearn and Horgan on the other hand have a great deal to say about it.

Also, "keeping the land as is and see what transpires" is not a choice unless you personally own the land. That governing course in Athens that you'll take after you get elected teaches about property rights, due process and how to violate the state's sunshine laws - whoops, that was a cheap shot.

But since you brought up FCDA, and keep in mind they have an agreement with PTC to bring businesses our way as well - how do you think they spent the day on this lovely Thursday? Golfing? Long luncheon meeting with the Chamber of Commerce? Maybe knock off early, go home and cut the grass? Don't know - me either. Let me tell you what Tate Godfrey or John Boothby or his predecessor (forgot the name) or Don Hartley or Doug Warner or Jim Pace or Todd Strickland would have done today. They would have read in the AJC that Krystal corporate HQ is moving to Atlanta with 60 people and they need 20,000 square feet of space and their primary motive is - get this - PROXIMITY TO HARTSFIELD AIRPORT! Now they also said they are looking in north Atlanta. That is red meat for the guys mentioned above. Selling airport access against north Atlanta traffic and housing prices is second nature to them. They would have already called and gotten an appointment for tomorrow and would have their always ready slide show by their side. They would take the mayor of Peachtree City (well, not now, of course), the head of the Chamber, a list of existing buildings, a Group VI rep to talk about new construction or rehabbing an existing building, a real estate pro who has his or her own always ready slide show and current available housing, some others to discuss the city's recreation opportunities, well you get the idea. That's how businesses get relocated to Peachtree City. Correction, that's how it used to be.

I'll bet you FCDA does nothing with that info and of course the city council (the one that disbanded our own Development Authority) is too gun shy to unleash its own potent weapon - PTC Convention and Visitors Bureau. They'll buy a van for God know what purpose, but won't spring for a couple of plane tickets to pitch Krystal Corporate HQ on PTC. This is really, really frustrating.

Husband and Fat...
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Mr. Morgan - One correction

The top marketing people would be discussing this possibly a year or two before it even hits the papers. These people sit in coffee shops or diners at 6 am with business development people in related trades and pass along business opportunities all the time. Real estate developers, state business developers, moving companies, IT people, contractors, ect.. A lot of these companies know or hear about a possible relocation all the time.

For instance, I knew about the new Snap Fitness possibly moving into the Braelinn Shopping Center in March of this year and now it is happening. Why, because a business contact told me that they were working on this deal.

These deals take a lot of time to develop. If you know the right people and can get in at the incubation stage. By the time it hits the papers, it usually too late

Robert W. Morgan
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Boy, are you ever right about that. But we play defense here

Used to all offense and very creative as well. Expecting these people to proactive and a year or two ahead of the actual event is laughable, but you are correct - that's how the pros do it.

Usually too late because most companies don't want it in the paper at an early stage - upsets the employees. But apparently Krystal is being very open about the move, but has not yet selected a site. I did get a call after my last post from one of the very few creative realtors left in the city and he and his wife are trying to get an appointment. That's fine, because of who he is and how he works, but generally realtors don't have the clout a Development Authority person or an elected official does.

Husband and Fat...
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All it takes is a little hard work

If someone really wants to be ahead of the game, they can, if they work smart.

For instance, there are documents that can be found that will list when every office tenant lease expires.

If you had someone do a little research, you go a pick a good prospect and visit them with a good presentation about a 2 years before the lease expires. Tenants tend to look at relocation or lease renewals about 18 months ahead of thier lease expiration.

You get in on the ground floor.

But your right, a majority of the government workers don't want to go the extra mile.

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If they work smart, you said. Yes indeed, yes indeed.

Lease expiration is indeed a tool in the workshop. One that was used by the old regime - the PCDC/GroupVI/Bob Lenox/Jim Williams/PTC Development Authority/Good old boy network that actually got things done.

So now, since Steve Brown burned down that barn, we have no more arrows in the quiver. Mainly because of wimps that followed him in office. And nobody that wants to put themselves on the stage and front for these dorky politicians. Why can't we just get some real people in office?

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I made two phone calls

Krystal is working with a real estate broker to come up with multiple sites for consideration. The compnay President & CEO is a GT grad, so it makes a lot of sense he wants to come home.

From what I hear, they only need about 20K sf of space, which is not a lot of real estate, compared to Coke, ect... However, PTC would be a good place for them to locate. I am sure someone can find a bldg with this space requirement and could even offer a zoning variance on signage in order for us to be the new home. Maybe even open a restaurant in one of the foreclosures.

PTC can promise to pass out little burgers at the 4th of July parade.

Larry Sussberg
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Husband & Father of 2

You should call Matt at Fayette County Development Authority and pass the information along.
Or email him.

Don Haddix
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Haddix: FCDA Contact

Anyone with economic contacts or development proposals can contact Matt Forshee directly at:

mforshee@fayettega.org

or

770-461-5253

Their website is:

http://www.fayettega.org/

While you can, you do not have to through any elected official or Staff in PTC, Tyrone, Fayetteville, Brooks or Woolsey.

As for Morgan, the old DAPC is gone for good reason. PCDC was not a development authority and the DAPC I reactivated in 2008, who where doing good work, was disbanded by Learnard, Fleisch and Imker.

The EDC was retail oriented in power and function. It had no authority power at all. Building big boxes and shopping centers was and is not going to bring more money to PTC. Jobs will fill homes which will fill retail and generate more income to PTC.

The current agreement with the FCDA, as Matt Forshee has said, either will prove itself valuable or PTC can bring back DAPC.

I wish it success. We need it.

But, if it doesn't work out, then DAPC would have an experienced and ready to go to work person in Chris Daniels.

Economic development is not solely a government function. Citizens have every right and should be involved as well, which several are.

As well, industry is still coming to my office to talk and then being sent to the FCDA. Some of those are in fact expanding and some new ones are looking to locate here.

While some do not like it, the Mayors of every city are part of economic development. Just ask them and/or Matt Forshee.

It is an everyone's opportunity to be involved. No one has sole ownership nor should they want it.

Larry Sussberg
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Husband & Father of 2 - Krystal Headquarters

While the mayor pounds his chest like a baboon at George Dienhart wh reached out to you in sincereity, now you see why we have such lack of leadership and the city is paralyzed.

On that sad note, contact Matt Forshee, if you look at the South Pines/Gates Proposal it calls for 90 homes and 2-10,000 office buildings.

If Krystal is seeking a 20,000 sq foot headquarters, a lobby between 2-10,000 square foot buildings could make for a nice CUSTOM BUILT headquarters. Also, with 90 homes and 60 familes moving, the developer could sell most of the homes quickly.

Employees could be near work plus Starrs Mills complex.
Just maybe, Matt could call the developer and make a joint presentation. There is a lot of customization that could be offerred over other Georgia communities.

Sure beats the mayor's idea to put a factory in that spot!

Would'nt it be nice, a combined effort with the developer, PTC and Fayette County but this mayor can't rally the troops to pull it off....he'd rather fight with them!

Time to elect a new mayor in 2013!

Robert W. Morgan
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Wouldn't it be nice is a Beach Boy's song

Not a realistic vision of the future with the current group in charge. Group, Mr. Haddix. this isn't directed at only you, so stop finger-pointing, Started with Brown, Rapson, Wedd, got worse when PCDC pulled out,, got much worse with Haddix, Imker, Fleisch, Learnard and maybe Doug.

Talking to Haddix is like interviewing Brian Wilson - although now that his meds have been adjusted seems to be coming back.

Larry Sussberg
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RWM-Your Political Agenda

Sorry, but you clearly have a political agenda... The mayor told you so!
He's right

And "enough said"

LMAO

Robert W. Morgan
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Yea ok, I do have a political agenda

Simply replace the people who can't work together to get the job done with those that can. By the way, getting the job done does not mean blaming others, it means getting something - anything at all- done/finished/accomplished/finalized/etc. I don't even care if you have to bend the sunshine laws to do it. Brown and his boys may have done that, but they cooperated with each other and did identify a new county manager - and a good one. That's getting something done. Of course following through and acknowledging that the three sitting commissioners have to take formal action for a real hire, takes cooperation as well, but I am confident they can handle it.

Secondary objective - never vote for anyone who uses I, Me to excess or ever refers to himself in the third person. This isn't foolproof, but a good start.

Last, but not least - get Josh Bloom up to speed so he can be one of the three new people to come on to city council next year. I'd also encourage Scott Rowland to step up again.

Robert W. Morgan
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Wouldn't it be nice is a Beach Boy's song

Not a realistic vision of the future with the current group in charge. Group, Mr. Haddix. this isn't directed at only you, so stop finger-pointing, Started with Brown, Rapson, Wedd, got worse when PCDC pulled out,, got much worse with Haddix, Imker, Fleisch, Learnard and maybe Doug.

Talking to Haddix is like interviewing Brian Wilson - although now that his meds have been adjusted seems to be coming back.

Spyglass
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I thought you resigned, or at least I hoped you had

Because last I checked, no one GAS what you say or think.

Robert W. Morgan
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So, as you can see, our best and brightest are working on it

God help us, because no one else can. Give me a freakin break from what we call our leaders

EDC PCDC DAPC FCDA - TAKE YOUR ACRONYMS AND STICK THEM IN YOUR EAR, YOU STUPID LITTLE MAN.

We need a solution, not a review of the problems. The brown clown cleaned our economic development clock without a replacement option - a bit irresponsible, IMHO. Now, what are you going to do? Spout brown crap or suggest a solution. Spout Brown Crap. I see a t-shirt idea coming up, Don't you?

Don Haddix
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Haddix: Morgan, with your political agenda

I am not responsible for what Steve Brown did. But I am responsible for pushing the fixing of the Fred, Tennis Center and Tourism Association issues that had been costing us a fortune.

Your right. We need a solution. But I did not stop the clock on the DAPC that gave us the Tennis Center fiasco nor did I destroy the DAPC Learnard, Fleisch and Imker dissolved.

Go talk to them and the previous Mayor and Councils who refused to properly fund DAPC.

Houses on this site will not make money for the city. But Office/Institutional will.

Problem is it does not turn as much a profit for developers as does residential and retail, neither of which we need more built right now.

You know I am right, but hate to admit it.

Enough said.

PTC Observer
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But Mr. Haddix

aren't you always right? Think about it.

GeorgeDienhart
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I have already communicated this to Matt

through our established channels, however, if you know someone there, any help you can offer is appreciated. If you want to talk about this, I can be reached via gdienhart@peachtree-city.org

Husband and Fat...
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I will

I will look him up and send him a note. If a schmuck like me can get this information, I am pretty sure someone from the FCDA could have obtained this information months ago when this snowball started rolling. I would think the state developmet authority sent feelers out as soon as Krystal called them about the potential relocation. Remember, when something like this hits the newspapers, its typically only when the company wants to make it public. Now they have people at their present home office worried about losing thier jobs or having to relocate.

Robert W. Morgan
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You might be in the ED game when the State calls you

And when they don't call, that tells you something as well.

And, if you have a history of non-reponsiveness to previous inquiries from State or are outright belligerent to the State (that includes DOT, Mr Brown and ARC, Mr. Haddix), you may be sidelined for the time being. The State can't involve all 152 counties in an inquiry or even 10, so they pick 3 or 4 that seem to meet the general criteria and proceed from there. How they pick the 3 or 4 from probably 10 or 12 that also meet the criteria has to do with simple common sense - which counties are likely to be the most cooperative and aggressive and professional (and in many cases, discreet) in working with a new client. I believe Matt is a professional, but he is mired in a 15-year swamp of bad behavior by those that are more visible to the State.

Updated Monday AM: And if Ronnie Chance gets to be Majority Leader, we can have one of those shady land deals that seems to always surface when Republicans are in power. We can hope for that and hope the land is in PTC. Whatever it takes. Fine with me. End justifies the means. I learned that from the Obama administration. Time to play by their rules.

Quallacherokee
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RWM

You seem to be a fellow that likes accuracy, There's 159 Counties in Georgia
160 if the folks in "Milton County" have their way...

As to Chance, when there's a Shady land deal, it would most likely involve land in or around Tyrone, (my money would be on the old Hobgood And Campbell Property)+ 400acs with 1 mile of combined Hwy 74 road frontage Prime land just waiting for a Greezy Politician to use eminent domain to line his pockets.

Larry Sussberg
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Josh, Annexation & Busy Bee

I'm not worried about the Fayette Development Authority, I'm worried that the current mayor of Peachtree City tried to put LOW TEMP manufacturing in that location. A manufacturing plant working in blow molded plastics near homes, outside the industrial park and on our gateway. I'm worried that the Fayette County Commissioners tried to put a shopping center there, 100 yards from Publix shopping center. Do we need another shopping center? And one that could could steal tax revenues from PTC.

Let's see what Falcon Field says about the runway and what city staff says about economic costs or benefits.

Again, I'm glad you are involved and I urge you, Scott Rowland and everyone on city council to run for mayor so citizens have options.

In the meantime, lets see the research that city council comes back with.

Robert W. Morgan
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Fire and police irrelevant to this zoning decision

Odds are that they will never answer a call in this tiny 90-lot subdivision.
If you wanted to get upset about a simple zoning hearing, go back to 1994 when Alex Thompson (through his drinking buddy Steve Black) got Harmony Village approved. This ain't that.

If Erica and the other ladies move away from their campaign rhetoric about opposing all annexation, fine with me. Anybody who is dumb enough to think they know it all while they are running for office and refuses to learn (or even consider) something new while actually in office is completely useless, IMHO.

Josh Bloom
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PTC doesn't need this annexation

Here is why:

First, it passed the planning commission with a 3-2 vote. I still don't know why it passed, but I was at the commissions meeting and the commissioners were more worried about pocket parks and how many trees are going to be cut down. While those are reasonable questions to ask not one of the commissioners asked the question of if this development fits into Peachtee Cities Comprehensive Plan. That answer is a clear NO. I could go into point by point why this development does not fit into the plan but that would take way too much space. Over all the comprehensive plan calls for high density housing (which this is) located near the village centers and then spreads further out with the outline of the city being industrial/commercial. If a housing development was to build there the plan would call for lot sizes of at least 1-5 acres per house...not 1 house per .4 acre.

Second, PTC is severely limited to finding space for corporate headquarters. There are multiple corporations looking for space and this parcel of land is ideal for such a use. Easy access to a highway, fiber optic cables are already installed, local airport nearby with ATL Hartsfield 30 minutes away, room to expand (which is key for relocating or establishing a headquarters), AND such a project would fit perfectly into our current comprehensive plan.

Third, I believe the reason that the developer wants this land to be developed into a neighborhood is two folds. They can attach to our cities sewer system (which costs us money) and be in Stars Mills school system. The city might make a few bucks in the beginning of the project but over time PTC will lose money in services offered to this community. It runs our already over extended police force and fire department further south. Based on several factors the price point of a house to break even with tax revenue vs. city services is upwards around 400-500K. These houses would be priced around $340.

Fourth, PTC still has undeveloped land in the cities already defined limits (so no annexation) that is zoned residential and could accommodate upwards of 1400 more homes.

Fifth, This development will put more strain on houses being sold in that price range in PTC. Currently we have 47 homes for sale in PTC between the range of 300-380K. If a surge of 90 homes are put on the market our current housing stock will sit on the market for that much longer and drive those home values that much more down.

Sixth, This development is directly in line with the approach path to Falcon Field. I can guarantee you that over time nuisance complaints will start to come in and the airport will have to deal with them (even though the airport was there first) You can easily google airport noise complaints and a wide variety of articles come up with neighborhoods fighting with the local airport. Falcon field is a revenue generator for us and a valuable neighbor. We need to support general aviation and the positive aspects it brings to the city, and not hamper the operations.

This is a bad idea in all aspects. I can find no long term positives that this development would bring. As far as the 3 council members changing opinions, that is fine as long as they are informed decisions. If anyone of them changes their mind from what they said in 2009 we all deserve a good explanation as to why.

Larry Sussberg
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Josh, Annexation & LOW TEMP
Josh Bloom wrote:

This is a bad idea in all aspects. I can find no long term positives that this development would bring. As far as the 3 council members changing opinions, that is fine as long as they are informed decisions. If anyone of them changes their mind from what they said in 2009 we all deserve a good explanation as to why.

Josh
Is this is the same tract of land that LOW TEMP was looking at?

If so have you asked Our Mayor for a good explanation of that one?

OMG...A FACTORY surrounded by homes and at the city's gateway. A FACTORY!

Just asking....

Robert W. Morgan
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Thanks Josh, we are glad you are not on city council

When you do run and get elected, they will send you to a class (currently in Athens, I believe) where a bunch of newly-elected officials learn what their job is really all about. Some are surprised it is totally different that what they and others spouted out during their campaign. Anyhoo, what the real deal is, is that the owner of the land has a right to ask for rezoing and even annexation and the city council has the obligation by law to review the owner's plans and vote to approve or vote to disapprove it. Council can also table it and ask for the owner to come back with additional features, benefits or conditions requested by council and planning commission - although the latter is just an advisory board.

So, you got 1/2 of one right out of seven:
First -it is not in the city's comprehensive plan (you probably mean Land Use Plan) because it is not in the city, duh.
Second - you or city council can't redesignate someone else's land for corporate HQ or any other use. He's proposed one thing, you vote yes or no. You don't propose something else.
Third - Yea, he wants sewer (that's your 1/2 correct answer). That's handled by a separate authority. Council may indeed vote no on annexation which kills the sewer idea. Or they may get the cart before the horse and use their veto power over sewer expansion. There are a few ways of handling this properly for maximum revenue and legal protection from future sewer expansion ideas. There are many ways to handle this improperly - look closely at this aspect of the proposal and see how our leaders handle it.
Fourth - yes, there's lot's of land elsewhere. Totally irrelevant when council is voting for or against this plan. Many people like Mr. Imker forget that they are not in charge of the housing market. Getting elected does that to some people.
Fifth - yep, same answer as the previous, although any fool knows the 90 houses would not all be built at once. Again this is up to the housing market and some construction lender somewhere, but I would guess 15-20 houses per year is the most the market could bear.
Sixth - True enough, also irrelevant to overall approval or disapproval. Council could require that some type of deed restriction or notification is required for the few stupid people who buy houses without checking out the surrounding area - just like they did for Planterra Ridge, right? Oh no, somebody dropped the ball and you are correct - people complained.

Also, it is ok to have opinions and it is ok for city council to have opinions. What is not ok is for members of council to prejudge a proposal openly and verbally before it is even presented to council. Google Norsouth and subsidized seniors project forced on PTC and see what you get.

That being said, I suspect council will not approve this project. I just hope they do it in such a way that we don't get another lawsuit and something even worse forced upon us. Can't happen you say? Google Wieland, Southampton, Tyrone, Norm Davis and judge zones land in Tyrone without conditions or restrictions.

Cal Beverly
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Joined: 09/02/2005
Dead DJ, you flunked Annexation 101

You confuse the legal issues involving "zoning" or "rezoning" with legal issues involving "annexation."

Two different legal universes.

NO city EVER has ANY legal obligation to even consider annexation. And as a requirement of "annexation," any city can require specific zoning and particular uses before even considering a vote on annexing anything.

That's why PTC came up with the two-step annexation process. The council has to have an affirmative vote to even ALLOW city staff to consider an annexation request. And the council is under NO legal obligation to do anything with the request, regardless of what they campaigned on or didn't campaign on.

Your other comments about legal issues involving zoning are irrelevant since your initial premise is incorrect. No annexation, no zoning issues.

As for land use plan, consider this: PTC has no LUP related to an active coal mine either. But if those 77 acres were an active coal mine on the city's borders, and the coal mine owner wanted the city to annex them, the city could require that as condition of annexation the coal mine be shut down, filled in and giant peonies planted in a 100-foot buffer if the city so chose.

The coal mine owner could decide that was too steep a price to pay for annexation, but he would have NO legal recourse to force the city to consider a less onerous price for having a PTC address. The power lies totally with the city in virtually all cases of annexation in the state of Georgia.

Zoning is another matter entirely. But the property owner cannot get to zoning rights before he complies with annexation requirements.

And whatever is annexed absolutely SHOULD comport with the existing LUP for the area abutting the annexed tract. City staff is effusive about the planned annexation doing just that, but somehow staff neglects to specify exactly what IS the current LUP for the city areas abutting the proposed annexation. Just an oversight, I'm sure.

Robert W. Morgan
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Joined: 10/26/2005
Come on Cal, don't be picking nits

All I said was this ---".......the real deal is, is that the owner of the land has a right to ask for rezoing and even annexation and the city council has the obligation by law to review the owner's plans and vote to approve or vote to disapprove it"

Landowner has a right to ask. City has an obligation to respond.
Come on dude, be reasonable.

The city council said they would allow themselves to hear it (step 1). Thursday they will (step 2).

Let's hope that when they turn this down they will do so in a way that doesn't get us sued - again.

Your coal mine rift is just plain stupid. Let's focus on how city council does (or does not) do their job on Thursday.

And again, the goal here is to train Josh for the hard job he has ahead of him as a candidate for public office and eventually city council, mayor, county commissioner, county commission chair, state senator, US Representative, etc. chasing the Steve Brown dream. Don't wizz on his parade, I'm just trying to help him.

NUK_1
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RWM: Annexation
Robert W. Morgan wrote:

So, you got 1/2 of one right out of seven:
First -it is not in the city's comprehensive plan (you probably mean Land Use Plan) because it is not in the city, duh.

Pretty sure he means this annexation would be nothing like the surrounding areas in the City's Land Use Plan and a deviation entirely.

Quote:

Second - you or city council can't redesignate someone else's land for corporate HQ or any other use. He's proposed one thing, you vote yes or no. You don't propose something else.

The Council can simply vote NO on annexing the land and sure can suggest that another use might be more to their liking and might gain approval.
This happens all the time with municipalities and developers.

Quote:

Fourth - yes, there's lot's of land elsewhere. Totally irrelevant when council is voting for or against this plan. Many people like Mr. Imker forget that they are not in charge of the housing market. Getting elected does that to some people.

Nothing irrelevant about that at all when considering annexing more land into the City.

Quote:

Fifth - yep, same answer as the previous, although any fool knows the 90 houses would not all be built at once. Again this is up to the housing market and some construction lender somewhere, but I would guess 15-20 houses per year is the most the market could bear.

This part I 100% agree with. No way 90 homes suddenly sprout up.

Quote:

Also, it is ok to have opinions and it is ok for city council to have opinions. What is not ok is for members of council to prejudge a proposal openly and verbally before it is even presented to council. Google Norsouth and subsidized seniors project forced on PTC and see what you get.

Josh Bloom isn't on Council and can voice whatever opinions in advance he feels like. I also didn't see him stating anywhere that Council should be voicing opinions pro/con in advance either.

Robert W. Morgan
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Joined: 10/26/2005
True enough, NUK. Just helpin' Josh out. It is training

He's on the mayor's budget committee and probably on the fast track to be a candidate for one of those 3 council positions coming up next year. I am simply training him. I wish someone had done the same thing with our mayor. Just winging it all the time isn't good for the city.

And on the second point, I should have said "You don't propose something else before you have voted to approve or disapprove." Certainly that is ok after the fact. But so many get that backwards. I do expect our leaders to know the proper order for things and what is appropriate to say and when.

PTC Avenger
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RWM

I don't think he wants to be trained by someone who equated gay marriage with raping disabled minors.

Robert W. Morgan
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Joined: 10/26/2005
Oh phishaw, Avenger, I was just Joshing

You need to stop taking everything so serious.

Beside that, If Haddix's parents had been in a gay marriage - male or female, doesn't matter which, we would not have a bouncing baby Donnie in our midst now, would we?

NUK_1
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Well stated, Josh

I agree with all of your points on this issue and I just can't see any really compelling reasons to ignore all the downsides of this rezoning when this isn't going to be a long-term benefit to the City.

I'd rather the land sit unused and wait for an industrial/commercial client in the future than take the short-term revenues and lose long-term.

Larry Sussberg
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NUK & RWM

Well stated, sounds like Steve Brown may have assisted. Definitely in training which is good.
Sure would like to see more options coming into election season... Otherwise the choices will be what flavor of TEA you prefer.

Well said Josh! This may not be the time for a land grab and if annexed it would not fit into the comprehensive plan. The lots would have to be zoned larger as its on the outskirts of the city border.

Anyway, we need business development not housing.
Thanks

mudcat
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Joined: 10/26/2005
Josh is definitely being groomed - am I am glad he is

We really need somebody knowledgable to be stepping up next election in PTC. The younger generation is going to eventually be in charge so why not get them started now. It does sound like something Brown would write, but that's ok - he is right a lot of the time. Of course if PTC turns this down, Brown and his new and untested county commission will be the ones who determine what goes on this land. So, that's just a coincidence, right?

That whole area doesn't fit the land use plan. The Publix shopping center is not the village center - that's on Crosstown where Kroger is. Not sure these lots are on the outskirts ala Camp Creek, but certainly agree don't need to be approving this.

Husband and Fat...
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Joined: 07/23/2012
We are in different economic times

If the city staff and the planning commission both agree that the annexation will result in positive results and is fiscally responsible, I think it would be prudent to approve. If there is logic to oppose, then explain why.

I have no problem with any of the council members making informed decisions based on the facts. We are in different economic times. We have to look at all possible forms of income as long as it is within the framework of our planned community.

Robert W. Morgan
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Joined: 10/26/2005
It is up to the ladies and George

Imker, no; Haddix yes and 2 more votes kills it. I think that is the most likely outcome. But I could be wrong.

I hope it gets approved. A no vote discourages the developer to the point that he will give the property back to the bank and some bottom feeder will come along buy it for 30% of current value and do self-storage or convenience store. Remember it is in the county now and you have Horgan, Hearn and Frady approving things for the next 3 months.

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