Imker breaks tie in favor of larger tax hike

Says it will solve city's budget woes

Peachtree City Councilman Eric Imker, who campaigned for office on a pledge to not increase city taxes, broke a deadlocked city council and voted in favor of a 1.25 mill property tax rate increase Thursday night.

The measure was approved 3-2 with Imker joining councilwomen Vanessa Fleisch and Kim Learnard in favor and Mayor Don Haddix and councilman Doug Sturbaum voting against.

Imker said while he will stun some of his supporters by voting for the tax increase, he felt he was elected to office to solve the city’s budget woes, which have resulted in a projected $18 million shortfall over the next five years after $2 million in cuts approved by council earlier this year.

Imker also pointed out that the 1.25 mill increase would take less in property taxes from city residents over a five-year stretch than the .5 mill increase this year and subsequent higher increases over the same period of time.

In fact, the .5 mill increase this year would require an additional .75 mills of tax increase over the same five-year period compared to the 1.25 mill increase this year, Imker said. The 1.25 mill increase which would result in a $108 a year increase on a home valued at $272,000.

The tax increase will bring the city an additional $2.28 million in revenue for the city, some of which will be used to build up the city’s reserves, which will be spent down in 2013, 2014 and 2015 to avoid the $18 million shortfall.

The shortfall is due largely to two factors: the expiration of the transportation special sales tax, meaning the city will have to start funding road and path maintenance at $1.5 million a year and the anticipated loss of per-capita based local option sales tax revenues due to slowed population growth compared to other cities in the county and the unincorporated county itself.

Imker also proposed a slate of budget cuts that were shot down by the other four council members including:
• An across-the board 1 percent pay cut for all city employees;
• A 32-hour furlough for all full-time employees;
• Eliminating the city’s match to participants in 401(k) retirement savings accounts;
• Eliminating the city’s match to participants in 401(k) retirement savings accounts and restore the city’s funding of $600 a year in medical insurance premiums which the city cut from employees two years ago in a cost-saving measure;
• Eliminating one staffer from the city’s recreation department; and
• Eliminating one staffer from the city’s public works department;

Imker did score one partial victory in his suggestion that the city eliminate a three percent “bonus” match to the 401(k) accounts of the city’s seven department directors and chiefs. Doing so would save about $19,000 and council agreed by consensus to get staff input for consideration at a later meeting.

After the meeting, Imker told The Citizen that without any action on his budget reduction suggestions, the only alternative was for the city to raise property taxes.

Council also unanimously passed new budget policies that would require any new expenditures to be balanced with new revenue sources for the budget and also recommends tying any special sales tax (SPLOST) revenue to the city’s millage rate such that such taxes or additional voter-approved revenue would necessitate a look at decreasing the millage rate, and when such revenues expire they would consider an increase in the millage rate.

yellowjax1212
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20 Posts - Come on Don You're Slipping

Only 20 posts from Mayor Haddix on this thread alone.
Good to see the Mayor is using his time wisely and cutting back on the blog time.
Steve Brown is starting to not look quite so bad now.

Spyglass
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The Quasi Debate with Fayetteville's Mayor

takes the cake.

mudcat
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So, what do you think of my all-female city council now?

Last fall you had a chance to elect the 2 females that you did plus 2 more - Cindy and Beth. How do you think the budget and economic development discussions would be going now if the 4 ladies (and Doug) were running the show? Just askin'

borntorun
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BTR:Mudcat

Give me Beth over Eric The Embarrassment Imker and Cyndi over Don "Its My Party and I'll Cry If I Want To" Haddix ANY Day! I said it before and will say it again, Eric The Terrible winning over Beth is one of the great travesties in the history of PTC politics. And I know folks will knock Cyndi for her votes on last council (fair enough). But if you had a council comprised of these four ladies + Doug, any pro-development votes by Cyndi would be negated by the rest of the council. And unlike Cyndi, Haddix has shown zero capability to try and bring consensus among other council members except for lap dog Sturbaum. (Ever wonder what deep dark secret Haddix has on him to keep him muzzled and in line? Just askin...) Folks, politics is the art of compromise (sorry Tea Partiers) and this council has shown its my way or the highway which doesn't bode well for the city. We are counting on you Kim to lead this sorry bunch out of the wilderness!

yellowjax1212
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"Its My Party and I'll Cry If I Want To" Haddix

"Its My Party and I'll Cry If I Want To" Haddix

That's funny stuff right there BTR.

Courthouserules
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mud

It certainly is a "show" as you put it, just like FOX news calls their news, "a show," not the news!

It probably wouldn't have mattered who was elected as far as laying off people and not raising our taxes again.

If you think about it for awhile I think you will realize what PTC needs for our local economy is More jobs. Considering the fact that those people who get their salary from taxes in PTC (civil servants)now number more, not less, and that we have as much, or more industry and retail now than before the layoffs, wouldn't you say that the job losses here in PTC mainly came from outside the city? (people who live here but worked outside).

I don't know what four ladies and "Doug" could have done about that, unless they had voted democrat when Bush ran! (well they did overall in poplar vote, but the Soopremes (republicans) stepped in and stopped the win.)

Also, maybe if our local banks would have all been a little more honest and smarter managers than they were, they may have some money now for improving our situation here rather than from credit cards, fees, and loans to each other.

Courthouserules
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delete

delete

GAltant
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Haddix:Morgan

Mr Haddix....Morgan is right, its time to show leadership and stop defending your position on this blog.

Also, at the meeting, Mr. Meeker confirmed that the position was "legal".
Granted that as an employee of the city, this new position can not raise funds through bond offerings. Maybe you are using a bad choice of words by calling it "legal"....the position is legal, its just more limited in scope.

Anyway...this does not matter...Just move on and leave it. Time for you to stop blogging on this project and tend to the city's business.

David

PTC Observer
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GAltant - coordinator

IMHO - this is a waste of money. Another staff member can do this work, it can't be a full time job. I say they forget hiring anyone.

GAltant
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Don Haddix - Economic Development Coordinator

Dear Mayor and Council

I attended the city council meting last week, and I have recently reviewed the Citizen blogs.

Mr. Mayor, its time to stop winning and crying on the blogs....and more importantly instead of telling the citizens to contact Imker, Leonard and Fleisch for more information on the job and where the budget is coming from. As the leader of our city, what's the next step?

As our leader are you going to follow up with staff to oversee the development of the job description and budget? Will the mayor pro tem do that? As the leader of Peachtree City, aren't you suppose to assign someone on the council to work with city staff and oversee the development and success of this new position?

We are waiting for you to be the CEO. A decision has been made, the next stage is development and implementation. In fact, what you are posting on blogs makes you look really bad and you need to show the initiative of leadership, act like the CEO of this organization and move the process to development and implementation.

The board of directors has made their decision, as the CEO now it's your job to make sure it succeeds.

What is the next step? What's your plan?

PTC Observer
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GAltant

Interesting concepts here. ;-)

bad_ptc
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Mr. Mayor, how about we

kick around some ideas for our new DPAC coordinator instead of talking about a SPLOST that won’t happen in the near or distant future?

We all know and understand that the outcome of the last PTC Council meeting was not as you and Doug had hoped. I fully understand that the DPAC outcome was not to your liking and the 1.25 mil increase wasn’t to my liking but that is what we have.

So, what type of matrix and/or goals can we set for this new position to get PTC in a strong financial position?

What would you like to see done and what do we, the citizens of PTC, need to do in order to facilitate a positive outcome?

It’s time to make the lemonade.

Where do we start?

yellowjax1212
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Where Do We Start?

Well, my guess is that the council will have to begin by interviewing applicants for all of the vacant DPAC positions (assuming, of course, that anyone in their right mind would want to volunteer to serve on this authority).
Pulling out the old crystal ball, I would predict that every member of DPAC has been steaming over the weekend and within the next two weeks you will see each submit their letter of resignation to the council. And I can't blame them after the public slap in the face given them by the "New Trinity". I hope the new $50,000 per year "Imker Puppet" is ready to get to work because they will be out there alone. Nice work new guy and gals.

Wow! This is like the third post where I appear to be siding with Don. Ewww, it feels funny.
So for good measure - Don! Quit getting goaded into blog arguments. It used to be funny (in a sad kind of way) but you are the Mayor now - act like it. Please, focus your efforts on leading us through this crisis and stop wasting your time and our brain cells (face it some of your posts leave me quite numb) in what you call "Transparent Government" - It's not it's just juvenile - STOP IT, STOP IT, for the love of God STOP IT!

yellowjax1212
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Where Do We Start?

Well, my guess is that the council will have to begin by interviewing applicants for all of the vacant DPAC positions (assuming, of course, that anyone in their right mind would want to volunteer to serve on this authority).
Pulling out the old crystal ball, I would predict that every member of DPAC has been steaming over the weekend and within the next two weeks you will see each submit their letter of resignation to the council. And I can't blame them after the public slap in the face given them by the "New Trinity". I hope the new $50,000 per year "Imker Puppet" is ready to get to work because they will be out there alone. Nice work new guy and gals.

Wow! This is like the third post where I appear to be siding with Don. Ewww, it feels funny.
So for good measure - Don! Quit getting goaded into blog arguments. It used to be funny (in a sad kind of way) but you are the Mayor now - act like it. Please, focus your efforts on leading us through this crisis and stop wasting your time and our brain cells (face it some of your posts leave me quite numb) in what you call "Transparent Government" - It's not it's just juvenile - STOP IT, STOP IT, for the love of God STOP IT!

Robert W. Morgan
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yellowjax understands what is needed - leadership!

That's not just Logsdon's campaign slogan - it is a real word with an actual meaning and it is what we need more than ever in PTC. Sure Don and Doug didn't get their way via. another 3-2 smackdown, but even though someone else came up with an idea that the majority liked and passed into law, it is still the law. Now Mr. Haddix can make a choice - be a Mayor and take the lead on implementing what the majority on council passed OR he can continue parsing words and giving semi-correct legal opinions and sulking in public because council has decided to play with someone else's ball.

I told 2 very qualified people over the weekend about the new position and they will be calling David Rast today. Fortunately neither person reads these blogs, so they don't know the leadership of the city has voiced an opinion that the new job seems designed to fail. Might be a good time to stop the whining and lead. Man up dude.

Don Haddix
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Haddix: Morgan

Leadership says take a stand for what is legal and right. Also know what one is talking about. Not cave in.

Now, with that said this job will move forward and it will hire someone and it will either prove for disprove itself. You know legally speaking what I believe will happen.

If you have well qualified people encourage them. What you are glossing over is I said this job can be tweaked to contract it to DAPC. So a good person isn't going to lose their job, it would simple be redefined as to who they take their direction from and become fully legal and actually more extensive.

So, please, before tossing out innuendo I have ever said this person will lose their job know what I said in fact. What your saying is the threat of job loss. I never said it.

mudcat
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If Bonkers hadn't retired, he would be a good candidate

for the new job. He made as much sense as some of the council last week. Is it possible they speak the same language.

Cyclist
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Hey mudcat

Nicely done!!!!

Don Haddix
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Haddix: Coordinator

There is no DAPC Coordinator. It is a City Staff Community Development Coordinator.

There is a very big legal distinction. This position cannot exercise DAPC powers or give orders to DAPC.

As the City Attorney made very clear when doing City business it works for the City. When doing DAPC business it must work for DAPC.

The position can maintain a data base of vacant buildings, direct people to the owners and act as a clearing house for the Community Development Department functions. It cannot handle any grants, loans or any of the incentive unique to DAPC.

That pretty much sums up the job.

PTC Observer
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Coordinator - defined by Haddix

Why do we need a job like this? Why can't we simply put this on the companies that are considering moving here and the real estate industry?

Seems like a "make work" job to me and certainly not a full time job for sure.

Don Haddix
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Haddix: Why?

We really don't need a Staff Coordinator as they are defining the job. It is really another city Staff worker doing City work, I believe. You are correct the private sector could fulfill most of the same role at their expense. They could develop and maintain the database, distribute materials from the authorities etc.

What is needed is someone who can actively recruit good jobs, offer grants, administer the Census Tract incentives, give low cost loans, etc. That requires a development authority by law. But that is industry which is not even mentioned in this positions job proposal.

They want to believe FCDA is proactive. It isn't. We now have less effort than under the Logsdon administration.

We will see how it goes. Monthly reports on the work, etc, of this position have already been required of Staff by two of us on Council. The results versus cost will speak for themselves.

Time will tell. To be honest if you want to dig into this position you need to contact Learnard, Fleisch and Imker. This is their effort and they have presented nothing clear cut in all these discussions, not even a Budget, except they don't want volunteers getting money and they want a position they can personally control. Imker stated that on the Dais and the others agreed.

idk_revisited
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"another City staffer doing City work"

isn't the work of bringing in industry to the community "City work"?

Can't the volunteers on the development authority do the following now?
- actively recruit good jobs,
- offer grants,
- administer the Census Tract incentives,
- give low cost loans

I think your issue isn't the position, but who controls the position. If this "coordinator" works for the City (not the City government per se, but contracted to the City Council, which it appears this position is, since it's Council's decision to renew the contract, right?), couldn't this coordinator create and maintain the databases of resources, meet with companies, then if an incentive package is wanted, couldn't the coordinator get the Development Authority to approve the package proposal? Wouldn't they have to do that if the coordinator was hired by the Development Authority directly? Would you want a single person offering incentives to a company on behalf of the Development Authority, or even the City (hey, they can cut fees they charge, right?).

My point is the "coordinator" isn't the entity offering the incentives - the board of directors of the Authority is the one that does that. Doesn't the board sign contracts? Couldn't the board do that here? And I'm not talking City Council, I'm talking the Board of the Authority. Of course, based on the neutering of the funding of the Authority, the Authority would need to ask the Council for permission anyway, which would, of course, lead to full knowledge of the proposals coming to the City and allowing for a more informed government, but why would we want that?

So is your concern that we let the Development Authority do whatever they need to do to get the job done without any oversight by the Council - the decision-making authority of the whole City - or is it who is controlling the position/funding your concern?

Doesn't the City Council approve the Tourism(or CVB) budget now? A "separate entity", but Council ultimately controls the purse-strings?

Ninja Guy
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IDK--Your Cats Are Getting Hungry

IDK, glad you have all this excess time on your hands to try to figure out when the staffer will be working for the city and not for DAPC, and not doing anything they shouldn't be doing prior to Step 1, except if he/she has been sub-contracted out to DAPC, which is funded by the council but not under its control, except when it is or isn't on the 4th Friday of every other month by city ordinance but not prohibited by state law or decree of Judge English or Judge Caldwell, unless they are to have been found engaged in nakedness together in the cul-de-sac behind the current DAPC chairman's second home, which may or may not have been funded by the sale of tree trimmings taken off the property of Mayor Haddix and sold on E-bay for a profit, which may or may not, depending on whether said mayor was at home blogging at the time or in his office avoiding direct contact with citizens, belong to the city under current Ethics Law. Let me know when you get it all straighted out.

idk_revisited
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Exactly!

Diagram THAT sentence, Cal.

HA!

borntorun
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Spot On idk!

BINGO!! You hit the nail on the head! While he's denied it (surprise, surprise surprise!) Haddix/Sturbaum wanted the coordinator position contracted to DAPC so they could "influence" who that person would be. Haddix is the council liasion to DAPC after all.

And yes you are correct, the city staffer could do everything the DAPC staff person could. In both cases, whether or not the coordinator is city or DAPC, any incentives, contracts, etc. would have to first go before the DAPC board for approval.

Most (not all..I have no idea how one of them got on the board) of the DAPC board are dedicated and do a good job but the reality is they all have full time jobs and the duties you ask could they do is not realistic.

However, since the funding is now stripped from DAPC, perhaps the sitting board members might want to reconsider serving on DAPC since the new reality is there will be more required of them as volunteers. I'm sure there are people in this community that have the time and expertise to serve on DAPC.

And yes, the city has final approval of Tourism budget. Sturbaum is the council liasion to Tourism.

Don Haddix
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Haddix: Answers

Yes, DAPC can do or negotiate all those things as a State authorized corporation. No the City cannot which is why development authorities exist. They were created by the State to do what cities cannot do.

No, the Coordinator cannot negotiate the packages because it takes contact with State and other agencies they are not authorized to deal with in this way. No, the Coordinator cannot take orders from the Council regarding day to day operations of DAPC. No, the Coordinator cannot actively pursue employers with prejudice.

If an annexation is involved the Coordinator cannot touch it until a Step 1 is approved by Council.

Yes, the Council approves the CVB Budget but it does not control day to day operations of the CVB, that is illegal. No, we cannot collect H/M tax without a valid non government agency to handle the funds. No, we cannot spend all H/M funds as part of our Budget.

The three tried to take control there as well but could not overcome the city not being allowed to collect and distribute H/M funds.

Nancy Price works for the City for the Fred. But for the CVB she is a CVB employees because she cannot do that job as a city employee. Council on the Fred side and the CVB Board of Directors on the CVB side in control.

A similar situation can be done with the Coordinator and I did make such a proposal, but it never saw the light of day or was allowed any discussion by the three because it involved contracting the Coordinator to DAPC.

The State has whole sections of law regarding all the various forms of authorities, Tourism and CVBs. There are very clear distinctions and separations between them and cities regarding powers and abilities.

Authorities are widely used because for many reasons. They even protect cities from liabilty exposure, meaning you the taxpayers. A coordinator makes the city fully liable.

Cities with a Coordinator almost always have a DDA or DA as well with much higher budgets and their own staff. Why is that so if the Coordinator can just do it all? Because a Coordinator cannot is why.

We will see and revisit in the future as warranted. For now they won the vote and are in lead on this issue. Currently they have no firm job description or even a Budget.

We will see how this goes and revisit it as needed.

idk_revisited
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Double-talk

Sounds like it to me...some points to ponder:

"No, the Coordinator cannot negotiate the packages because it takes contact with State and other agencies they are not authorized to deal with in this way."

Negotiation of packages is not the same thing as signing the paperwork and executing the agreement, in the eyes of the law, right?

"the Coordinator cannot take order from the Council regarding day to day operations of DAPC " I guess we're splitting hairs - if a business, for example, comes to you as the Mayor wanting to move to town, can't you utilize the coordinator to assist in engaging the DAPC for incentives? Also, just what are the day-to-day operations of the DAPC? Right now, who does these things? Who cuts the checks that the authority signs? Who provides the information the DAPC uses today?

"the Coordinator cannot actively pursue employers with prejudice" - well, why would the DAPC exhibit prejudice in actively pursuing employers? Don't we want businesses here? Are you saying the DAPC gets to pick what type of businesses they pursue with incentives? Can't they still do that with a coordinator whose salary is paid by the City?

"If an annexation is involved the Coordinator cannot touch it until a Step 1 is approved by Council." That's a City ordinance, and my guess is that a majority of Council can change that to make that coordinator position an exception.

"Yes, the Council approves the CVB Budget but it does not control day to day operations of the CVB, that is illegal." - again, I guess I would need to understand what day-to-day operations means in your opinion. If Council sees that the CVB is going to use all of its money to fund personnel costs, wouldn't they call that into question? What if they don't approve the budget; doesn't that affect the "day-to-day operations"?

"No, we cannot collect H/M tax without a valid non government agency to handle the funds. No, we cannot spend all H/M funds as part of our Budget"

But you can ask them to give you the money back to fund activities the City has already funded as a "tourism" need - isn't that how the fireworks are getting funded next year? So, in actuality, while you're not controlling them, you're certainly influencing their decisions, aren't ya?

Sorry - if you really wanted to, you could make this position achieve your goals of growing business. I guess the word "illegal", however, is an easier method to attempt to sway to a different agenda.

Don Haddix
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Haddix: IDK

This is going into repetition. After months of discussion and debate and now these issues on the blogs all has been answered repeatedly. Continuing to repeat serves no purpose.

I will close out with stop and try to figure out why places with Coordinators have a DDA and/or DA with its own Staff and multiple times the Budget. Valdosta, again, has a Coordinator Budget of $89,000 and in an email answer stated no control over any authority. They have a DDA with a Budget of $108,000 with Staff shared with Mainstreet who has a Budget as well. Their DA has its Staff and about Budget of about $800,000. There are a lot of cities with Authorities and no Coordinator.

Alpharetta only has a Coordinator who does zero Authority work. Why? Because they are in Fulton County with a massive authority effort going on.

The answer to why no Coordinator does authority work is because is State Law will not let them.

The issue was voted on and we will see how it goes. It will be monitored monthly. To date there is no Budget or actual job description for this position.

Unless something new is asked I believe this subject is pretty much exhausted and everyone will have to make up their own minds.

PTC Observer
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Learnard, Fleisch, Imker - Haddix

They are not very accessible are they?

Why don't they come on this board?? This is a rhetorical question.

Sounds like another entitlement job to me, read waste of money.

bad_ptc
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Mr. Mayor, not the answer I was looking for

but perhaps the one I should have expected.

I'll contact the other members of the council and see if they can offer something of greater substance.

Thank you.

Doug
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But what happens after 2015?

Okay, why is no one asking what is going to happen after the 2015 budget? Does everything go into happy mode after that?

Common sense would say if future councils have to borrow from the reserves to balance the budgets in 2013, 2014 and 2015, what is going to happen in 2016 when there are no extra reserves?

I'm getting this vision of the water in the toilet bowl going around and around and then disappearing.

Don Haddix
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Haddix: 2015

There are .201 increases every year in the plan for 2012-15. After that I noted the structure indicates the increases are permanent with any additional issues requiring even higher tax increases.

Councilman Imker stated any additional needs meant even more tax increases beyond the City Manager's model.

I note even before approval the 2012-15 rates increased from .169 to .201 already.

Don Haddix
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Haddix: I Forgot

There was second increase. It is now .250 per 2012-15.

Mike King
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That's So Convienient Don

Ever increasing taxes, an aging population, and very near build out, still you continue to support nearly two-thirds of the city revenue going to personnel costs. When, sir, will you learn that the 'model' you, Doug and Bernie propose will continue to price young families away from PTC?

This town, like the rest of Georgia, has experienced a recession for nearly three years and is likely looking at another two before any improvement is to be seen. When are you going to address the issue of spending?

bad_ptc
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.

.

PTClurker
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The mindset of some on these boards is mystifying.

It is quite troubling to see the "blame" mentioned below (and even insinuated above in the article) applied to Imker on this tax hike.

Imker was the ONE AND ONLY council member who fought tooth and nail for 8 months against this tax hike and wanted to mange the budget and shortfall through reduced spending and government manpower (not service) cuts.

It is the other 4 council people that didn't have the "stomach" to do what was necessary in these troubling times and surrendered to the tax hike. Why are they not the ones chastised as being responsible for this tax increase?

Imker's hand was simply forced by the other 4 into selecting the lesser of two very unfortunate evils. It also just happened to be that he was the deciding vote on this process.

Don Haddix
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Haddix: Some Facts Here

Imker voted for the 1.25 during the Budget workshops giving the 3rd vote required to move from the Workshops to the Public Hearings.

If he had held firm on zero here is what would have happened:
1. We would have deadlocked and the 2010 Millage Rate would have become the 2011 Millage Rate, meaning zero increase, or,
2. One of the Councilwomen would have had to say we can get .5, it is better than noting, so .5 would have moved forward, or,
3. We would have compromised on a .6 with .1 going the DAPC to move that forward.

We stated we only supported a .5 one time with increased DAPC funding and some other initiatives to help expand our tax and/or income base. After that it would have been cuts of some kind if the initiatives failed since just increasing taxes is destructive. We never supported the City Manager's .5 model.

Councilman Imker has openly supported City Manager's 1.25 model with tax increases for the next 5 years.

The point is there is no way to say we forced Councilman Imker to vote for 1.25.

scribbler
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THE ONE & ONLY FACT THAT I AM CONCERNED ABOUT:

HIGHER PTC TAXES... AGAIN!

Don Haddix
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Haddix: Higher Taxes

Understood.

The votes have been taken and I lost. So until next year we are where we are on taxes. On economic development we are where we are until something forces someone to change their mind or we get a third vote with a new Council Member in 2012.

Some other important decisions are coming that will impact the City financially, so we have those debates ahead.

One is funding a new Bubble for the Kedron Pool for $250,000. With $2.3 million more coming into the coffers next year are yes votes on such items going to be nearly automatic or are we going to take a long hard look where it all stands first?

I have remained true to my promises to the voters and will continue to do so. That is about all I will say at this time.

Ninja Guy
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Kedron Bubble

Has anyone looked into putting a permanent enclosure on the Kedron pool? Buying a new bubble for 250K every so many years seems to be an unsustainable situation. Also, isn't there a new aquatic center going into the Fischer Crossing complex? I assume that it will be enclosed, which could be attractive to SCAT and other winter swimmers in PTC, meaning less demand for an enclosed Kedron.

Don Haddix
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Haddix: Bubble

Yes, I had Staff research it and they said it would cost several million dollars.

The Bubble is suppose to be good for about 15 years.

Courthouserules
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Bubble

Roofs sure are expensive! (several million!)

Just weld the bubble on permanently and patch the defects.

I still suggest a Teen Center in town which would have an Indoor Pool. If adults are too good to swim there in winter then they can build their own!

If you are scared to death of a teen center, put a police substation in it also!

Ninja Guy
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More Bubble Talk

What about a recreation and cart path SPLOST? Can SPLOT funds be used for anything as long as approved by voters? The two biggest draws to PTC for most are, in addition to the school system, the rec facilities and the cart path system. Seems that a SPLOST to support/improve/expand these two assets would be a good idea, as long as there is no bypass funding buried in there somewhere.

Don Haddix
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Haddix: SPLOST

What is more effective and gets a bigger bang for the buck is a Debt Reduction SPLOST that eliminates the interest, etc, we are paying on the Debt.

That would consume most of the SPLOST.

It would be smart to designate uses for any left overs while clearly stating in the SPLOST the primary uses have to be paid first to prevent redirecting funds thus abusing the intent of the SPLOST.

Right now we are paying around the $3 million mark a year on debt. Freeing up that money puts a lower demand on the property owners and we could do a 1 mill tax cut the first year so SPLOST = Debt Payment. Then as the debt pays down increase it.

Yes, a SPLOST can be used for some General Fund issues, such as paths, but not everything. Counties and cities that are doing it the right way have lower millage rates.

But either way getting rid of that debt payment goes a long way in problem solving issues for the City and the taxpayers. I want thing structured where it will be very hard for any future Council to abuse the system again.

Using very carefully worded SPLOST combined with a very low Millage Rate handcuffs Councils as regards abuses. Voters have to approve the SPLOST and the Councils have less discretionary funds to waste. It forces financial restraint and if not happening red flags it to the voters for the next election.

A lower Millage Rate is attractive to good jobs relocating or starting here as well, thus further lowering Property Tax.

Is it a different approach? You bet, but it works.

PTC Observer
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Haddix - Are

you suggesting a city sales tax?

If you are back on your SPLOST campaign for the county, I can't support this as it is PTC that has the debt, not the county. Why should we burden those elsewhere in the county with our self made problem?

Don Haddix
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Haddix: PTC Observer

You are right, it was a PTC creation. Not a doubt about that. But this is good for the whole County, not just us.

Yes, I mean SPLOST as we cannot do a MOST.

The County is also in trouble. They have already said next year they are facing service cuts or a tax increase. They offer a quarter of the Rec we do and their ISO rating is 9 compared to our 3. Can those using County Safety, in example, actually afford cuts in those areas?

Fayetteville just approved a .295 increase on a Budget that has no Rec, EMS and only provides partial Fire protection. The get it from the County, so what would a County cut do to them?

The ability to cut Property Tax going this route applies to every city in the County and the County, who has $50 million in debt on the Justice Center alone.

With the new commissioners I hope some shared cost plans Councilman Sturbaum and I have had for over a year can move forward. That would help a lot.

Higher property tax discourages home sales and jobs coming here. Lower does the opposite.

Can you think of a tax more unfair than Property Tax? You get penalized for owning a home.

Ken Steele
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Fayetteville Facts

Mayor Haddix:

You have misrepresented a number of facts concerning Fayetteville. We have a full service fire department with an ISO rating of 4 which is appropriate for a community of our size. We have had both mutual aid and automatic aid agreements with the county for many years. This has worked quite well for both parties and has allowed effective, efficient and economical fire service to our respective citizens without duplication of effort and cost. We do not have our own EMS because our residents pay county taxes and the county has excellent services. Thus, we feel that this would be unwise to tax our residents twice for duplicative services.

As for our tax rates, the council recently adopted the rollback millage rate of 3.240 which included the millage equivalent of reassessed value of -.252, not .295 as you stated. This is in accordance with state law and will ensure that, on average, our city property owner’s tax bills will remain flat as we have been able to do over the past decade. As I’m sure you are aware, we all set millage rates for the tax digest average thus the individual’s bill may change a few dollars one way or another depending on whether their assessment was more or less than the average.

Should you have any further desire to comment on our city, please feel free to contact our staff or me for real time factual information.

Don Haddix
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Haddix: Mayor Steele

Today in PTC said:

The council also gave final approval to its 2010 millage rate, up just less than .3 mills from last year.

The financial impact upon your constituents is irrelevant to my point made about the claim the rest of the County is static or decreasing thus justifying a Millage Rate increase here in PTC based on an overall lower tax bill.

There was no attack on Fayetteville, just an illustration we are not alone in our problems.

Fayetteville has the distinct advantage of having the County Seat and a number of County facilities located within and next door. We have none so we get hit harder across the board because our board is wider.

Congratulations you were able to not increase the financial impact. But you did compensated the Tax Digest loss we all suffered by increasing the Millage Rate to not lose money as well. That was my point.

So .295 as reported earlier was inaccurate? The Millage increase was actually .252? You have to admit "just less" seems to confirm the .295.

We are two very different cities with very different realities. That made my point effectively because we all have been hit, including the County, which does furnish you services. So if they cut services you will be hit harder than we will. If they raise taxes we will both be hit the same.

With a far less than bright outlook before us we need to come up with some creative solutions County wide that benefit us all. Seems that should be a topic at our next FCGA meeting.

Davids mom
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Leadership

With a far less than bright outlook before us we need to come up with some creative solutions County wide that benefit us all.

Many in the county are looking forward to this approach.

Spyglass
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Some of us have tried to tell our Mayor

that coming on these blogs and shooting from the hip is doing him no good whatsoever. Now he's been called out by a neighboring Mayor....classic, just classic.

Mike King
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Human Nature

Human nature can be described by some when in possession of free rope, they eventually hang themselves.

NUK_1
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Yep, the Mayor Steve Brown playbook in action

Didn't work then for PTC and sure won't work now. There isn't any need for this kind of pettiness and finger-pointing from Haddix directed at other entities. PTC has plenty of its own problems to deal with.

AtHomeGym
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Nuk & Playbook

I don't know whose playbook it is but what I do know is that most of it reads like a script from "The Amateur Hour!"

PTC Observer
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SPLOST Tax - Haddix

I think there is some confusion; I thought we were discussing City debt?

You seem to imply that this debt somehow sprung from mother earth without our agreement and authorization. I think this is what bond referendums are about, right?

Therefore, your solution is to have someone else pay for the debt using a county wide SPLOST. Yes, I can think of more unfair taxes than a property tax. Taxes that are forced on those that had no part in the debt obligation.

Property tax is a "fair" tax because it brings home the cost of services that the city, county, and state want to obligate the citizens to. By its nature it constrains the growth of government by directly taxing those that are demanding services. Your way is the "progressive" way, distributive obligation, attempting to hide the real cost by spreading the cost to those that have no “dog in the fight”. In fact, it is a ruse that politicians have used for centuries to increase their power by minimizing the perceived cost to the individual.

There are other reasons that regressive taxes like SPLOST are undesirable but I won’t go into those in detail here. However, the WFB is just one example of how these taxes can be used by politicians to increase their power at the expense of the taxpayers and against the citizens’ wishes. There is no accountability with these taxes, just technicalities of the tax law, in other words manipulation by those in power.

At best the concept of SPLOST and sales taxes in general is naive and at its worst dishonest.

Don Haddix
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Haddix: Bond

Actually you are the mistaken one here. Almost all bond debt is enacted by Councils and Commissions with zero citizen votes. No referendum required.

The PD and its repairs, in example, are bond debt you never voted on. How about the Justice Center?

Property Tax only taxes property owners. What about everyone else? Where are they directly taxed except via something like a Sales Tax in some form?

Those with property tax exemptions, thus paying a lot less, have demanded more services and some the higher the higher millage rate. Are they paying for what they demand?

As for the WFB this needs to be made crystal clear. The voters DID approve it. I knew it was on the list before the vote was taken. It was most assuredly in the presentations that I took the time to go to back then. As was a commuter rail station in PTC, that we removed from our portion of the Transportation on a 3-2 decision, Imker didn't care if it stayed in or not and Learnard wants it here and even tried to get us overturned by writing Jack Smith.

No, it was not a list on the ballot. To list all the project the ballot would have been a book.

I am very aware of the arguments about different forms of taxes. Most assuredly we need an across the board tax reform. But until then we have to deal with what we have and Property Tax is a very flawed system.

No, my way is not progressive. A fixed rate system like income and property tax are regressive by definition. Consumption based gives one some control of the taxes one pays by their control of their spending.

In example, you have a hard year and your property tax bills is $3,000, you are going to pay $3,000, period. But if your spending is say $15,000 normally, you can cut that back to maybe 10, maybe lower, and save $350 dollars in sales tax.

It is a big argument we are not going to resolve here. But I am very aware of Property, Income, Consumption, VAT and the other forms of taxing.

There needs to be a fair formula for all the taxes to ensure everyone is treated fairly. Property Tax only taxes those who own property while everyone receives tax funded services.

Socialist and Welfare States are failures. So are Royalty and Peon based States.

Right now what we have is not working. On that I think we can agree.

PTC Observer
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Bonds - Haddix

"Actually you are the mistaken one here. Almost all bond debt is enacted by Councils and Commissions with zero citizen votes. No referendum required."

Well that's the problem isn't it?

Councils and Commissions - we can change those and we can demand a referendum too. If councils and commissions can't keep our house in order then maybe the citizens can.

BTW - you need to look up the definition of "Regressive Tax".

Ninja Guy
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Just How Much Debt?

You mean 3 million a year in interest charges? Just how much debt is PTC carrying and in what form--long-term bank borrowing or bonds or both?

Don Haddix
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Haddix: Debt

With interest, etc, around $18 million total.

The are bonds with call dates attached. You cannot just pay it off before a minimum date and there are penalties for doing so even when legal.

That is due to the low interest rates we have gotten.

Mike King
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Bubble

If one cannot afford it, then close the damn thing!

But if our city government can put a figure of 'several' million dollars on it, are they not capable of specifics on exactly how much?

Courthouserules
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Mike

Not in a two minute conversation!

A good handy-man would do it for several thousand, plus materials!
Oh, they have to be licensed and bonded, and of the right party!

bad_ptc
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Mr. Mayor, chew on these facts

You had no, repeat, NO facts to justify a $150,000 budget for the DPAC.

You had no, repeat, NO plan, on how to spend the money wisely.

You let Mr. Sturbaum "swing in the breeze" when he let slip that the DPAC had submitted a "revised budget" at the last minute; that you and the other members of the council decreed having no knowledge of.

Come again, what group were you assigned to keep an eye on?

You and council never addressed the monies from the HMT, $500,000 annually, were left hanging in the wind.

You and Mr. Sturbaum had NO plan on how goals should be set.

You and Mr. Sturbaum had NO idea on what needed fixing first.

You and Mr. Sturbaum had no goals period!

Yet you sat there quietly while ‘Mr. Sturbaurm suggested that council, ”should guide”, the DPAC.

Where was your speech that the DPAC was an independent agency?

Have you NOT seen the writing on the wall?

You used to be pissed, when you were a simple councilman, that you were being ignored by the rest of the council.

How does it feel to be king and be ignored?

The days of the 3-2 vote, with you on the losing ending of the stick, are going to be interesting

Don Haddix
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Haddix: Fact is, bad_ptc

Your facts are not facts at all. To illustrate that reality DAPC gets zero H/M money and your claims on H/M misrepresent the realities:

Facts on the H/M:
-Over $300,000 goes into the General Fund.
-About $500,000 now goes to the CVB.
-The numbers you presented in another post were for Tourism.
-We did address Tourism and complete changed the whole program to a CVB. That was a project Councilman Sturbaum and I worked on for two years but could not get the majority to support back then but succeeded this year.
-Under Tourism the income from the Tennis Center and Fred went to Tourism. So your assumption the expenditure side was all H/M is in error.
-We took the Fred away from Tourism and revised it. Now it is expecting to be in the black this year. Councilman Sturbaum and I pushed that change through Council.
-We took the Tennis Center away from Tourism and it has moved from red to black operationally. Councilman Sturbaum and I pushed that change through Council.
-H/M is neither Property Tax or Sales Tax based.
-We do not supplement the CVB Budget with Property Tax or Sales Tax. In fact we transferred the costs of Fireworks to the CVB to lower General Fund use.
-You need to go get the CVB Budget to see where the employee costs are now versus then. Using the Tourism Budget for now is totally misleading and erroneous.

Can you tell me the budget, formal job description and documented goals and metrics for the Coordinator? No, because they do not exist.

The tax increase and coordinator position was passed. We will do our best with both as we can and will see how it all works out.

Your entitled to your opinion. I am not going to argue and debate. But I felt one post with some facts in them was justified.

borntorun
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Haddix: The REAL Facts

"We did address Tourism and complete changed the whole program to a CVB. That was a project Councilman Sturbaum and I worked on for two years but could not get the majority to support back then but succeeded this year."

"We took the Fred away from Tourism and revised it."

"We took the Tennis Center away from Tourism..."

It would appear the facts do not support these statements of yours.

As a long time member of the tennis center, I attended a workshop the City held 2-3 years ago that was open to the public to discuss transitioning the management of the amphitheater and tennis center from tourism back to the city. And as I remember it, the Chair of the Tourism Board addressed the council and public and said the Tourism Board had voted to give back management of the amphitheater and the tennis center in order to transition into a CVB. I dont recall him saying anything about you, Sturbaum or any other council member being part of that decision process.

If that is correct, those were Tourism board decisions and neither you nor Sturbaum had a damn thing to do with them as you allege. And if correct, it now appears that you are resorting to, at best distortion of the facts and at worst outright telling of lies, in order to take credit for actions to which you are not entitled to.

As you say in your post, you are entitled to your opinion. But let me add sir, you are not entitled to your own set of facts!

Don Haddix
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Haddix: Facts Again

They voted to give them back when the work we did reached the point we were winning the arguments. It didn't happen until we had movement from some on the majority in our direction.

Two members of Council can discuss issues without it being public. We can individually or in twos discuss with anyone we want privately, including some on the old Tourism, which happened.

If you think they began the changes it is not correct.

As well you are very wrong Tourism could give back or keep either without Council approval. A past Council assigned them to them whether they liked it or not and it took another Council to take them away, whether they liked it or not.

I think you need to learn more how government processes work. They rarely start with public meetings. Often they are dead ends that never come before the public.

PTC Observer
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Borntorun - get a grip on Haddix issue

Mayor Haddix didn't mean "we", he meant the city. You’re way too sensitive pal.

borntorun
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No Grip Needed PTC Observer

His post said we (our as you say the city) did all these things. And in a couple of items, he specifically said he and his lap dog, Sturbaum did. They didnt according to the Tourism chair at the public workshop. The Tourism board (which is not the city...it is a seperate legal entity) did. Just pointing out the facts as well as him/Sturbaum trying to take credit for things they were not entitled to. Elected officials need to be held accountable not only for actions but empty and false statements. Sorry if that bothers you Observer dude. Get a grip, indeed! Sounds like you are the sensitive one!

borntorun
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No Grip Needed PTC Observer

His post said we (our as you say the city) did all these things. And in a couple of items, he specifically said he and his lap dog, Sturbaum did. They didnt according to the Tourism chair at the public workshop. The Tourism board (which is not the city...it is a seperate legal entity) did. Just pointing out the facts as well as him/Sturbaum trying to take credit for things they were not entitled to. Elected officials need to be held accountable not only for actions but empty and false statements. Sorry if that bothers you Observer dude. Get a grip, indeed! Sounds like you are the sensitive one!

PTC Observer
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Borntorun - errata

believe me I am not defending Mayor Haddix. I merely point out that it is not clear he is taking credit in his earlier post.

However, in his latest post he clears this up, he is indeed taking credit. Now since I don't know the facts here I can't judge......

but, as to Haddix, I believe he is really a Democrat in sheeps clothing, just loves those SPLOST taxes.

BTW, if you are looking for politicans to give credit to others, you are naive. Haddix is just like our President, he is on a constant campaign to get re-elected.

So far, he hasn't shown much leadership.

borntorun
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PTC Observer:BTR

Of course he is taking credit! Doesn't he always? I believe Haddix is lieing (again) in his latest post. He claims that he Sturbaum came up with one other unnamed council member to get a majority and approached the tourism board about them giving up the management of the amphitheater and tennis center. BS! Haddix is right in that it would take council approval to agree for the city to take over those two facilities but I don't remember anything remotely like that being said by the tourism chair. If that was the case then why was that not part of his presentation? You are right...he hasn't shown much leadership nor has anyone else on this council. I fear the damage inflicted on this great city by them the next couple of years will be great.

bad_ptc
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Mayor Haddix, call it what you will

“We did address Tourism and complete changed the whole program to a CVB. That was a project Councilman Sturbaum and I worked on for two years but could not get the majority to support back then but succeeded this year.”

Strange you didn’t find a way to represent that in the budget talks last night. You’ve been shilling the same old song and dance for the last few months. I was at the council meeting and you said NOTHING on the subject while you were slamming councilman Imker.

“Under Tourism the income from the Tennis Center and Fred went to Tourism. So your assumption the expenditure side was all H/M is in error.”

That’s nice. What about the $500,000 that came from the HMT? Please tell us where it went and why.

"Can you tell me the budget, formal job description and documented goals and metrics for the Coordinator? No, because they do not exist."

As I'm NOT the Mayor and you are I expect you to be able to to do this. If you can't handle it walk away.

I'm just one of the 35,000 you get to tax.

As there is no published DAPC audit to look at, the expenditures are being copied directly from the Tourism Audit. Wasn’t it you and council that just recently transferred the Tourism Assoc. to the DPAC?

While you’re into dodging questions, what exactly are you paying the new head of the Fred and Airport Authority; salaries and benefits if you please?

While I’m at it what is the total dollar amount of the HMT and where is it going?

What the hell did they do with the $500,000 they were given?

I thought you wouldn’t answer that one.

The day of the endless piggy bank is over.

From now on if you try to spend it, we’ll be asking how and why.

Mr. Mayor, unless and until, you and Doug can drastically separate yourselves from the historically perceived inept management of this city you two can count on loosing 2 to 3 for the foreseeable future.

Don Haddix
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Haddix: Budgets

We never transferred Tourism to DAPC. We reorganized Tourism completely into the CVB. It was given as an example of how to handle DAPC if we increased their funding. It was in the proposal given to all of Council via email prior to the meeting that the 3 completely disregarded in their desire to put complete development control under their direct control.

Did you not notice Councilman Imker wants every project and penny to be approved by Council that might want to do? That is ILLEGAL. Even on Staff work it usurping Staff powers and responsibilities and that is prohibited by the City Charter.

It was irrelevant to the DAPC discussion because they are two different authorities.

Get the facts straight here, please, when you tell me I should be able to tell you the Budget for the Coordinator proposal. It was not my proposal and they never developed anything but the idea to propose. No details, no budget, no nothing but a concept.

We had details for DAPC, they had a concept. A concept was approved 3-2. So if you do not like that kind of approach talk to those who proposed and passed it.

Council does not own the Airport or set their salaries. Talk to the Airport Authority and ask for their Budget.

The Fred Budget is in the City Budget. Ask for a copy.

You want a breakdown of the $500,000, ask for the CVB Budget.

I am hiding nothing and telling you to get the full Budgets for answers.

As for management style changes, I agree we need change but there are legal issues involved plus opposition from some on Council. So I can say no more at this time.

If you wish to continue contact me via telephone, please. Trying to discuss it in this manner isn't productive on this range of topics.

Mike King
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Hiding Something Mayor?

FACT is the 1.25 rate increase addresses the $18M debt that you continually ignore. While it doesn't entirely eliminate the total debt of the city over five years, it does substantially reduce it. An effort you, sir, have yet to acknowledge.

FACT is that if it is not YOUR proposal, it is obviously flawed and not worthy of YOUR consideration.

FACT is that should the budget revert back to 2010 a level, cuts in personnel costs would be inevitable despite your wailing to the contrary.

Courthouserules
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lurker

Wouldn't it have been the thing to do and wait for one of the other three to change sides and vote for cost reductions (heads)?

He can abstain from voting anytime he wants to do so! For as long as he wants to do so.
You don't suppose there were conversations outside of the meeting, do you, before the vote?

The republicans told Obama, "hell no," also but he ignored them! We have a health plan.

No Profile In Courage in the PTC vote.

Ninja Guy
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I Think I Understand Now

I think I now understand why Mayor Haddix wanted to pump up the budget for DAPC. It's because he wanted to work there after leaving politics. Why else would he keep pushing for Low Temp despite the poor fit with the location? So he could claim credit and be seen as a get-it-done DA sorta guy. Why does he keep alluding to DAPC being the only one that can clean up the Photo Circuits site? Why does he keep reminding us of his past involvement in development work? All for the same reason as above. I think the plan behind the plan was to create a nice post-mayoral job for himself over at DAPC. Anyone think I might be on to something here?

PTC Observer
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Ninja Guy - What

makes you think the city would hire him?

Anyway, it's all over now. We have a "coordinator" with no job description and no goals.

Ninja Guy
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Quid Pro Quo (PTC Observer)

Payback. He got them a nice budget increase so they could all go out entertaining and such on public funds. But as you say, its done now. I think Mr. Imker will come up with a job description and some goals for the new contract employee.

Don Haddix
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Haddix: Payback

Actually working for a government where one just served in an elected position is a non starter. It is called an ethics charge.

Ninja Guy
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More Payback

I thought development authorities were legally separate entities from government.

Don Haddix
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Haddix: Ethics

Any entity receiving funding is bound by Ethics Law.

PTClurker
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Courthouserules....

If he does that...

a) The worse millage rate may get approved and we're worse off than we are with the ladies' proposal.
or
b) With a stalemate budget beyond a certain point, I believe (I'm not certain here, but believe this is the case) the State can take over PTC budget decisions and operations.
or
c) With no solution this year, the budget problem becomes woefully compounded next year.

Indeed he could have stalemated the budget and perhaps he should have. But perhaps after 8 months of trying to convince the others of the right course of action he decided it was best to compromise and at least NOT let the budget fiasco go unresolved for another year. My point is that at least he tried and worked excruciatingly hard for 8 months to generate viable solutions without a tax hike. Why are we pointing fingers at him and not the other 4 council members?

BenAthar
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Time to move?!?

Well I guess that means that more people will be leaving PTC for Coweta County? Even with all of the furloughs and such, I guess that trying to help keep the property taxes low, it doesn't matter anyways. Well there will be more For Sale signs going up around the area.

Courthouserules
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Ben

No guts there!
Income will be much less over next two years. I suppose another 2 point raise and a SPLOST, and keeep hiring. These are one termers unless an impeachment can be arranged! All of them.

scribbler
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The "READ MY LIPS" moment---

Peachtree City Councilman Eric Imker, who campaigned for office on a pledge to not increase city taxes...
********
"We the people"...
...are watching...
...listening...
...taking notes
...now also -- PAYING MORE!

We have been paying more than enough.... for long enough!
We are taxed enough already at every level of government!

THIS-S-S-S-S-S.... is what financial reserve funds are for!
(Since those TAX REVENUES were not issued as REFUNDS to the TAXPAYERS!)

It's really a simple solution:
Our government MUST learn to live (& spend...) within the means of available revenue. Revenue goes down = spending is limited pro rata.

It's not long division...

bowser
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Tax context

Hey Citizen: Didn’t you recently report (albeit very briefly and quietly) that the school millage cut due to refinancing will drop the average tax bill $177 on a 250k house? In other words, that will more than offset this increase, no? If that’s the case, seems like a perspective worthy of noting…

Maybe you could lay out where all the ingredients of our upcoming tax bills stand after the various maneuvering this year. Just a suggestion...

Courthouserules
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Bowser

If you are trying to get someone from either the county, school board, or cities to put together just what you will net out paying in taxes, forget it.
This is the point in time where there is no "leader" to ask!

The County Commision Chairman should do it, but if he did the other two would accuse him of "interferring."

Have you noticed just how much Clayton County pays and what they get for it?

bowser
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no, courthouse

I don’t want a county “leader” to do it.

I was suggesting that the newspaper do it.

cheers...

Courthouserules
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bowser

Forever, the newspapers report the tax increases by the city as a separate item; then the County as a separate item; then the school board as a separate item! They don't want to tackle a net grand total tax.

"City taxes going down for 1982."

Later: "School taxes going up for 1982."

even later: "County Taxes going up for 1982."

(Also, sales tax increases to 7% in 1982--or whatever year!)

PTClurker
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Best for the city, given the circumstance

It sounds like Imker did the right thing in choosing the lesser of two evils in light of the unwillingness of the other council members to enact the cuts needed that would have resulted in his (and my of our) desired zero tax raise.

This is one of those few times where I can applaud a government official for trying, unwaveringly, to do the right thing over many months, but in the end being simply outvoted by the majority and at least accepting reality and voting to keep as much money in our pockets as possible.

We know you wanted zero tax hikes, Mr. Imker. We know you stressed it, came up with multiple solutions, and worked with council since day one to do everything possible to avoid a tax hike. In the end, when it was obvious the other council members didn't and wouldn't "see the light", I thank you for at least doing what was best given the hand dealt to you.

Robert W. Morgan
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Took long enough, but yes indeed it is best for the city

Pretty obvious solution took way too long, but I guess when Haddix and Doug tied the development authority issue to the budget they were as guilty for the delay as Imker's holdout. Not really sure I like the new 3-2 voting bloc. Seems unstable to me, but at least this time they got it right.

dar thompson
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Joined: 08/23/2006
Robert,

I must say you got it right again...you seem to be one of the few that truly understands how the value of money works.