A tale of two golf cart ordinances

McIntosh High School students share the news on a golf cart in the parking lot at the Peachtree City school. File photo.

Starr’s Mill High School students may get help from Fayette Commission; public opinion sought on unifying golf cart ordinances to make traveling easier

The Fayette County Commissioners are asking all golf cart owners and prospective cart owners in the county to attend the Aug. 15 Board of Commissioners meeting.

“As Fayette County continues to move toward becoming the nation’s first countywide multi-use path network provider, the necessity to interconnect the ordinances and requirements of the various jurisdictions is becoming more important. The situation is especially acute along the Peachtree City and unincorporated county border,” according to a news release from Fayette County Clerk Floyd Jones.

“For Starr’s Mill High School students interested in riding a golf cart to school, the circumstances get really confusing. Unlike their counterparts at nearby McIntosh High School whose specially designed parking lots fill up with hundreds of golf carts daily, the students at Starr’s Mill face a different set of regulations because the school is located in the unincorporated county,” JOnes said.

“Unlike the sophomores and some juniors at McIntosh who drive themselves to school on a golf cart and back home after sports practice or other after-school activity with a learner’s permit, the Starr’s Mill students are not allowed to drive a cart under the ordinances in the unincorporated county because they must be licensed drivers,” Jones said.

“The irony of it all is that the driving age was changed in the Peachtree City ordinance because a Starr’s Mill student living in Peachtree City complained about the age limitations, but the students from her particular school still cannot drive golf carts to class with learner’s permits,” said Commission Chairman Steve Brown.

In the past, interested parents from Ashley Forest, Brandon Mill, Brechin Park, Breckenridge, Brierfield, Farrington, Goza Woods, Highgrove, Horseman’s Run, Jefferson Woods, Millpond Manor, The Chimneys, The Landings, Vickery Lane, Wellington, Whitewater Creek, Woodcreek, The Preserve, Timberlake and New Haven subdivisions have contacted the county on creating better golf cart access for high school students going to Starr’s Mill.

All parents are invited to see the presentation given by high school intern Jason Girolami and offer their views as well.

The meeting is at 7 p.m. in the County Administrative Complex at 140 Stonewall Avenue in Fayetteville.

slimjim30215
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Moved

Moved

AtHomeGym
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SMHS & GCarts

Why does any of this matter if the SMHS Administration will not allow carts to be parked on school property during the school day? Sounds like someone has priorities backwards to me.

Spyglass
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Agreed, it is a school admin issue

Unless it changes, it all just idle chatter.

Husband and Fat...
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Just thinking - PTC Council

For the past 4 or 5 years PTC utilized splost money to repair cart paths and want to utilize this method of funding again if this passes the Nov ballot. The majority used for repairs,.

If we had included this budget as a yearly line item within our taxes, we would have a truer cost to evaluate vs whatever is captured by a moving splost.

Then we could have valid up to date backup supporting the real cost of paths supporting 10k carts.

Cart paths are one reason why PTC is special and again was selected as a great place to live. If outsiders want our lifestyle they need to pay up.

Jolly for PTC Mayor
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Agreed

The lack of line item funding of cart paths and roads has been a question I have been asking, but our local leaders refuse to answer. Now when the money has run out they will try "scare tactics" to get us to vote for another splost for same thing. Lets show them we don't want our city run this way and vote NO on SPLOST

moelarrycurly
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Husband & Father

If you haven't yet, check out the agenda detail of the meeting tomorrow night. There is a chart there that is specific to you comments. The discussion should be one that will really focus on the choices on this SPLOST vote coming up.

Husband and Fat...
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Imker's a smart guy

When he listens to me. Lol

Steve Brown
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L-O-Loud Moelarrycurly

Getting a little hysterical.

moelarrycurly
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Now Steve

no need for you to get hysterical. You feel the need to not answer, you just take a deep breath and say so. Your non-answers to many questions posed..well, too bad now isn't it? Just too, too bad.

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Moelarrycurly questions - relevance?

On you first question, "1) How many students ages 15 & 16 who live within PTC borders are currently enrolled at Starrs Mill HS?" Why does this really matter? Is there going to be a cut-off number where we say no more golf carts on paths?

On the path questions, we are working creating the appropriate path infrastructure. Working on the cart ordinances is the first step.

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Steve Brown on Paths

Have the meeting and let those who object stand up and voice concerns.

Husband and Fat...
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Larry

The commission meeting is the same night as council. Both have on agenda.

moelarrycurly
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h&f I do believe

county has no such item regarding SPLOST. It is a presentation by an intern about the ordinances on the paths.

Council has SPLOST and no item about path ordinances in the county. If these 2 separate discussions morph into the other, well, maybe they will be discussed, but I would not count on it. My request was for Steve to hold off till the next meeting to discuss, as I think PTC has a time deadline involved on their SPLOST discussion and a delay would not be timely. By his nonanswer, Steve has refused to move his ordinance discussion.

Husband and Fat...
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MLC

I understand that PTC is discussing the splost (paths and roads) and the county is discussing the ordinances of the paths. Saw that Imker was smart enough to add other funding options for paths/roads (which is good)

The county king just doesn't get it. He appears to be trying to push this down PTC's throat and I don't care for it. If he had presented his idea of county paths linking to PTC first and allowed us time to discuss before grandstanding, I could live with that.

If he wants to push paths in the county, that's fine. But give PTC the time to evaluate the ramifications of linkage. Sure it would be grand to link PTC to Starrs Mill, but crossing that road safely is just not feasible unless we install a bridge. The last bridge he wanted is still waiting for footings.

Now is not the time to finance county paths. Which tells me that some developer is probably in his ear about gaining approvals for paths. If the county folks near Starrs Mill really wanted cart paths, they would have moved to PTC and pushed for a bridge. I think most choose where they live because they didn't want to spend the PTC taxes.

slimjim30215
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H&F

There is a tunnel under Redwine Road in The Preserve subdivision. Golf cart users can use the tunnel, pass through the Jefferson Woods subdivision, then continue on to the school complex, all without traversing Redwine Road. Thus your "bridge" argument does not "hold water".

moelarrycurly
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slimjim & h&f..tunnel under Redwine and no $$$

The tunnel you mention is more than 3/4 mile in the opposite direction from the the Redwine/Foreston Pl. crossing and on to the school complex, One way. Try convincing anyone who lives west of Robinson Rd. to backtrack daily to get there going backwards.

Financing the paths..seems Steve Brown has written a letter to the editor here denouncing Dennis Chase and is adamant the county has no money. Read the letter. Now, how about any new paths? Guess PTC would be the one to absorb the cost of any new paths, the way he claims it.

slimjim30215
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MLC

Unless there is about to be a significant re-districting, there are a good many students that attend Rising Star/Starrs Mill that The Preserve route is not out of the way for. Think of those families that have had children attend Braelinn Elementary for starters. Their next stop is Rising Star, then on to Starrs Mill. Not everyone will flock to the Robinson Rd./Foreston Place crossing.

moelarrycurly
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slimjim-path bigger picture

Not to beat a dead horse here, but my points are changes the BOC and BOE make regarding cart parking at the complex will have affect those who live within PTC limits, also. Not just the students, but the planning of paths and maintenance and possibly the need for a crossing guards. Police, fire, Public Works, too.

From what the mayor said, he has referred all requests by city residents to the BOC and neither he nor the city manager has heard a word back. To me, the next logical step after examining the ordinances and before presenting this at a public forum, would be to have the county and BOE have a discussion with PTC and other cities over any proposed changes so that the city(ies) could voice it's concerns to the BOE and BOC BEFORE the general population get involved. Get a plan on how to approach the change that is agreeable to all govt. in the county and then have your public feedback. And don't be so arrogant as to schedule the public feedback on a night when another govt. meeting is going on in this county. Is that too much to ask?

The Chair of the BOC seems to be in overdrive to get this done. I want him to have a full picture of what it will cost the city (and possibly cities..Fayetteville is going to be impacted eventually as plans are to expand the paths affecting them, too) and the county and the BOE to accomplish this change. Until the county has the conversations with the city, I foresee pushback from the city(ies) the implementation of some of this. Rightfully so, since there will be an impact on city planning and budgeting. Go forward with this change with their input first, then call the public in to see the plans/changes.

I also disagree with this concept of "spot cart path pockets" outside of HOA subdivisions within the county without the public being able to vote on the expense of this very costly concept. Even if he does have developers claiming they will foot the cost to build a portion of a path system, there will still be costs the county will have to absorb. Not just now, but for years to come. I do not see the replication of the PTC model working in rural Fayette County, even if the costs were affordable.

Spyglass
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People go out of the way all the time on carts

But as stated on here earlier SMHS admin does not want students driving carts to school. So until they change, not much to see here.

moelarrycurly
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I doubt a 15-16 yr. old

Would get up early enough to go that route instead of the crossing at Foreston. If you read what Steve said, there have been talks already.

Husband and Fat...
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Thanks didn't know that

I could never find a way to get to SM on the cart

Steve Brown
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Moelarrycurly on paths

Did you really just make a comparison between Benghazi and golf carts usage in Fayette County?

How many families with students ages 15 and 16 actually own a golf cart in the county? How exactly do you make that determination? However, we will be talking about the county registering golf carts like they do in the cities – still does not get you determining ages.

When we changed the ages in PTC, no one knew how many students that age had access to a golf cart. It all turned out well.

We are working on path network additions and those concepts will be forthcoming.

Go look at the cart traffic surrounding McIntosh High School. The program is very successful and PTC has done an excellent job working with it.

I have been researching the issue for a couple of years in the county. Keep in mind we are having a discussion on Thursday. We will be looking at ways to move forward, including talking with the cities.

We are in the process of identifying corridors where we would like to see multi-use path infrastructure throughout the county. On The Gates subdivision, the only communication I had with the PTC Council was writing them a letter begging them not to go residential with that site.

Actually, “getting from point A to point B as fast as you can using a straight line” was the model in PTC which is why it has been so successful. Most of the major paths follow the sewer lines (quickest way between two points). Of course, you have go around wetlands and subdivisions and such.

Trust me when I say we are not looking to cover the entire county in multi-use paths, but we are looking at select corridors in the county.

I have had conversations with BOE officials about allowing golf carts at the Starr’s Mill Complex. They were receptive and the county is willing to work with them to make it happen. We both want to do it in a safe manner.

Some have exhibited the snooty "you will take away from PTC's path system" attitude. I think that is crazy. It will only enhance the experience, especially for the Starr's Mill families living in PTC.

moelarrycurly
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Steve-what we have here is

a failure to comprehend, to paraphrase Strother Martin to Paul Newman. Now on this one, don't even try to...oh never mind.

Read my post again, please. Slowly. No, I actually compared your flippant response in your previous post with the one that Hillary gave, now that you question it. And I prefaced it stating I was going off topic. How blunt should I make this for you?

Speaking of questions, again, you answer my questions with questions. So much for the advice. I did not ask you how many 15-16 year olds there are in the county in either post to you. I won't bother a third time. Another nonanswer.

No answer at all addressing the Redwine Rd./Foreston junction nor the Hwy 74/Redwine Rd. one either. I did not even bring up the lack of path access thru/from Wilshire subdivision to access Starrs Mill schools. Nor the lack of access from the path behind the subdivisions along Braelinn Rd. that abut the wetlands there going on down to the Wilshire area. Having this access approved by the BOE and the BOC will have a ripple effect on the planning and costs incurred by PTC planners and our residents. My impression is that is not a concern in your efforts to move this forward.

In your comments above, you keep referencing "we". Who is "we"?

You compare the PTC existing path system to the one on Redwine speaks volumes to how different your vision is to what actually exists in PTC.

I have learned a lot from this online exchange. I am sure others have, too.

hutch866
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Steve Brown

Let me help you out here Steve

Steve Brown wrote:

On you first question, "1) How many students ages 15 & 16 who live within PTC borders are currently enrolled at Starrs Mill HS?" Why does this really matter?

.
I believe he was comparing you to Hillary and your belittling of his question.

moelarrycurly
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hutch

whew. Muchas gracias.

moelarrycurly
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Steve-a suggestion

for you as you move along in your political career.

Do not answer a constituent's question(s) with a question(s). Addressing the question with a thought out answer would show the leadership you aspire to, I am sure, in your future career.

Going totally off topic here, I know, but for those who have followed the debacle and tragedy known as Benghazi, the questioning, paraphrased, of "Why does this really matter?" is a very sensitive one. We can thank Hillary for the distasteful and insensitive comment and the visceral reaction many (me included) have to a response worded along those lines.

As a few others on here have noted, my concern is what is the big picture here? I will ask mine again. Rephrased some of it for you, since you did not answer the original questions/concerns.

1) How many students ages 15/16 would be using the only current crossover on Redwine Rd. at Foreston if the BOE approves carts for that age group? Your focus seems to be on the county students who live in subdivisions along Redwine, I understand and accept that. However, this will also impact PTC in our planning and maintenance of paths/signals/crossing guards,etc. Not to mention that path there is not anywhere near the length needed to accommodate a line of carts waiting to cross Redwine. Carts would interfere with vehicle traffic leaving the 3 or more subdivisions that feed into Foreston Rd. and onto Redwine. During some of that time, it would be during morning rush hour. I foresee a major redesign there, and would ask where the funds would come from to pay for it, as this is right on the county/city line there. Have you or county staff had discussions with PTC in any form to see if this would be workable? If not, why pursue it?

2) Please address the issue of a county wide path system. I think the time is overdue for that discussion. The incentives thrown in to the studio to have a path network available to their employees goes beyond just the west village area that you are concentrating on now (hospital, across 54 to the southside, etc.) What current plans are being worked on to continue the path system further along Redwine Rd. over to Hwy 85 South in Fayetteville, or into other areas of the county? I realize no funds are allocated, but where is the focus? Have you or staff had discussions with PTC about The Gates subdivision and it's effect on the intersection of Hwy 74/Redwine when the BOE approves this change?

I do want to see the PTC path system retain it's uniqueness. As with all growth, the quality of the simpleness (for lack of a better word) and sense of pride of ownership would diminish as the path system expands outside PTC's borders.

Some here have chosen to think I am wishing to exclude countians from using the city path system. Nope, could not be farther from the truth. Bring your families and spend time here and spend your money here. Just realize there is a tipping point when volume outweighs quality.

What has been created within the city borders is a meandering path system within the woods, and discreetly out of public view for the most part. I would say that is due the attention of city staff in creating buffers and screening. This has morphed on the county side to a roadside oversized sidewalk, fully in view of thru traffic along major roads. You are inviting unwanted attention from some that have no investment in the quality of life in this county. That is already evident on sections of Redwine. No screening, no buffer, just lay that asphalt down and let 'em ride.

Get from point A to point B as fast as you can using a straight line. That was not the concept used in the PTC model. PTC's model is a meandering, visual experience unmatched anywhere in this country. It encourages relaxation and up close and personal moments with nature that no community can offer to so many residents. I also think the PTC model is cost prohibitive for use in the county, due to existing property rights and the shear volume of land that would need to be utilized to create connectivity. Not to mention utility relocations and stormwater issues (ahem). You are not working with a clean slate, as what was used to create the PTC path system. I don't see that on Redwine, nor do I see it on Sandy Creek. I see a mini version of the road system right next to the existing roads, that's it. That, to me, is bastardizing what is unique here in PTC. If that word offends you, well, I use it to ask you to step back and have discussions with all involved here to offer the best possible experience, not a hurried, less thought out model.

3) Obviously, you feel you can convince (or get the residents who have children attending the SM complex) the BOE to change their policy there. Maybe that has already been done, I don't know. If so, please comment on it.

SPQR
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Mr Brown

If you think MLC's points are hysteria I'm a little concerned

Husband and Fat...
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Mr. Brown - have to agree

Have to agree with SPQR. Your dismissal of valid concerns is not becoming a leader. Listen and learn. Your approval rating thus far is surprisingly good, don't fall back into bad habits.

moelarrycurly
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H&F & spqr

After the BOC meeting this Thursday (you know, the one where he is refusing change the discussion date so it can be available to ALL county residents on the issue of path ordinances), his approval rating will be through the roof after the 12 female chicken approval is given. Don't adjust your tv dial, you heard it right.

Also, the outreach program for the "rural voter" in FC will be voted in by overwhelming 5-0 margin. The relief expressed by the crowd assembled will be palpable as they address these 2 items. All those there will witness these historic legislative accomplishments. Sure hope they don't release the addresses of the female cluckers to any roosters that are waiting in the wings..did I just say wings? Gives new meaning to eat mor chikins.

However, there is this teensie weensie issue of the county selling alcohol licenses illegally that has to be taken care of. Just a small oversight. Oopsie. Not to worry.

moelarrycurly
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Path Connections

A few questions to the Mayor and Chairman. No, don't refer me to the BOE. That information should have already been gathered for this decision.

1) How many students ages 15 & 16 who live within PTC borders are currently enrolled at Starrs Mill HS?

2) If the age is dropped to 15 by the BOC and what will surely be a yes vote from the BOE (that is what this is all leading to, as transparent as that is), how many additional carts are forecast to be added to the PTC path system in the morning? Who knows? What exit path will they be using to cross over from PTC border into county to get to the school complex? A guess? The path at Foreston Place and Redwine. Please enlighten us if there is another obvious alternative.

3) The layout of that path junction, for anyone who knows it, will create more of a backup from the path onto Foreston Rd. while waiting to cross. Look at the length of that path there, on the Foreston side of Redwine. No signal there, no tunnel nor bridge.

4) Who decided that this county is on it's way to having a countywide path system? Did I miss that vote by the residents of this county? Was there a referendum I missed asking us if this is the direction we want this county to go in? What control does PTC itself have over what is allowed to enter our borders? Who gets to decide that? What is the existing mutual agreement for the access to the path along Redwine that connects the city and county?

Forget the exorbitant costs to acquire easements and build a countywide path system and the obvious maintenance and patrol/policing of one and the registrations involved. Has anyone considered the reason this has never been done before at any county level in this country is for ALL of the reasons I just mentioned?

I'm not talking about crossing a city road, such as Walt Banks or Prime Point or Stevens Entry. Crossing Redwine Rd. with, what, a 40 mph speed limit after dark for school functions in the winter? Or do you drop the speed limit to 25 mph for school hours, thereby reducing the speed of all thru road traffic going east/west on Redwine to Fayetteville and beyond and back to PTC and beyond? Remember this is one of only TWO direct thru roads heading east/west in Fayette County from the west border to Fayetteville. The other is Hwy 54. We all know what a success that road is. A true engineering marvel, with all the room left for expansion.

Has the PTC Planner been consulted on this? How about the PTC Engineering dept., who design and monitor our roads and paths?

For the county to use the excuse the paths are already there and all these parents are suffering lost work time for the huge inconvenience of...parenting?

Floyd Jones, you have been suckered by the chairman. Make public the outcry up to this day of the angst suffered by these subdivision residents...present publicly the letters and emails with dates and facts and numbers.

Probably along the lines of the North Fayette Assn. "rep." that the BOC chairman summoned at the recent meeting to present the "fact" that they had NO meeting, NO correspondence pro or con about the new height limit of 70 feet for the studios. Fact is, they had no notification at all. But yet he spoke for ALL in saying they had no opposition. How does that happen? Even though the one who HAD bothered to write a letter in opposition who had actually lived in Burbank and suffered the effects of lowered property values as a result of the studios was actually marginalized and totally ignored by the BOC. Slick, very slick.

Brown and developers are going to bastardize our path system. A unique concept that has been the hallmark of PTC since forever. To expand this very specific amenity to a countywide major transportation route totally defeats the exclusivity of what has been protected and nurtured by our city government and elected for over 50 years.

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Outsiders in PTC? How dare they!
moelarrycurly wrote:

1) How many students ages 15 & 16 who live within PTC borders are currently enrolled at Starrs Mill HS?

What you should be asking is, how many Starr's Mill High School students who live within the borders of PTC are denied the opportunity to drive golf carts to school like their peers at McIntosh simply because the SMHS campus is ACROSS THE STREET from the city limit? And the answer to that would be ALL OF THEM!

moelarrycurly wrote:

4) What control does PTC itself have over what is allowed to enter our borders? Who gets to decide that? What is the existing mutual agreement for the access to the path along Redwine that connects the city and county?

You mean people who don't LIVE in Peachtree City are still allowed to ENTER Peachtree City? The audacity! The horror! Let's erect border fences and security checkpoints at all the entrances to the city and KEEP THE LOW-CLASS COUNTY TRASH OUT!

moelarrycurly wrote:

Brown and developers are going to bastardize our path system. A unique concept that has been the hallmark of PTC since forever. To expand this very specific amenity to a countywide major transportation route totally defeats the exclusivity of what has been protected and nurtured by our city government and elected for over 50 years.

The bastards!

LongTimer
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Newsboy and Cart paths

"You mean people who don't LIVE in Peachtree City are still allowed to ENTER Peachtree City? The audacity! The horror! Let's erect border fences and security checkpoints at all the entrances to the city and KEEP THE LOW-CLASS COUNTY TRASH OUT!"

I believe what MLC meant to say in their roundabout way was that PTC has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in the implementations and upkeep on the cart path system and it would not be fair to the PTC citizens to arbitrarily let thousands more use them without having to pay for that privilege. We currently pay $12 for our 4 year stickers and I believe that an out of city citizen (county) should have to pay $100 per year for the privilege of using our path system.
Its not about keeping "the Low Class County Trash Out" its about paying your fair share. And I'm sure people on here are going to have some smart-A$$ed remarks about us but so be it.
Pay or don't play!

Husband and Fat...
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True Longtimer

But the sticker cost is used to keep track of carts and identification for misuse. We also pay taxes for upkeep (lately via splost), policing of paths, fire and ambulance service. (Battery fire/ falls).

The Wedge
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It still doesn't help, Newsboy
Newsboy wrote:

What you should be asking is, how many Starr's Mill High School students who live within the borders of PTC are denied the opportunity to drive golf carts to school like their peers at McIntosh simply because the SMHS campus is ACROSS THE STREET from the city limit? And the answer to that would be ALL OF THEM!

Unfortunately, SMHS will not allow golf carts as high school commuters even if they change the county ordinance. Most current juniors and seniors comply with current county regulations and they are still not allowed to use the golf carts and park them at SMHS.

SPQR
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MLC

My Guess

The real agenda is not a county wide path system, which is economically absurd, so much as an access path connection to PTC.

Commercial people will love it. Residential people will as usual take it in the shorts.

City should plan for this now.

myother
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Are you always like this?

The only thing you left out is the end of the world.

moelarrycurly
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Well, well, well

Look what crawled out from under a rock.

Don Haddix
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Haddix: PTC Connections

PTC is the model for golf cart ordinances. Tyrone asked for a copy, we provided it and now we have a mutual agreement.

As for an agreement with the County, that is premature for me to comment on as there has been no contact with either the City Manger, by the County Administrator, or me, by the Chairman, to discuss the matter.

For clarity, the County cannot enact any ordinance governing PTC or force a connection to our system.

So, I cannot speak for the County's plan, but when they are ready to discuss the issue, The City Manager and I are ready to engage in the discussions.

That is where the matter stands for PTC at this time.

Husband and Fat...
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Mr. Mayor

Speaking for myself, I don't think we can keep the county from building paths. However, I do not like the thought of people outside of PTC utilizing our system, especially if there is not a hefty cost attached to it.

In my humble opinion, most people choose to live in the county because they do not want to pay the PTC taxes. Enabling them to use our paths without a healthy contribution to our roads, police, fire, system is like sneaking in the back door at the movie theater.

You have my blessing to let the county have it for their arrogance promoting this before they spoke to our fine city.

SPQR
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out of city carts

PTC should not issue golf cart permits to out of city addresses.

Spyglass
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I believe out of city permits cost more

Sixty dollars a year for out of city.

Husband and Fat...
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Not enough

If we are going to be inundated with so many more, then our costs go up.

Add the wear and tear of a lot more carts, plus the added costs for police and fire service, ect... PTC will lose in the long run. I can't think of any shopping center or restaurant in the county, I would travel to on my cart.

Brown needs to slow down.

sandytoes
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Change.....

This is something that has needed to change for a very long time. We don't have a kid at either school anymore but allowing them to drive golf carts to school and events would be an improvement to life at the Mill.
Wish admin was not so stubborn......but they always have been.

Steve Brown
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wow

Moelarrycurly, you are certainly worked-over on this issue.

We already have multi-use path going down Redwine Road.

The carts will be on the multi-use paths, not on Redwine Road. Let's put it in perspective, Peachtree City has over 10,000 carts registered. It's a great alternative form of transportation.

For every student who drives to school, it saves at least twice as many car trips, helping local traffic.

As for the lovely young ladies in the photo, the girl driving is not on the cell phone, so what is the problem. Also, they are stopped and posing for the photo. Even better, that is three sets of parents who are not having to come pick their children up on our roads following after school activities.

pumpkin
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Really Steve Brown, OMG, You Are So Full Of It-Out Of Touch

hats off to "moe and the gang". the girl on the phone, girl in middle with hair blowing in the win and girl driving Not looking forward to drive Are Not Sitting Still for a photo shoot. the cart is in motion, idiot . Golf carts were not allowed in the beginning for teens to troll around in, in PTC they were meant for Adults. After school activities, you or your wife or older licensed teen, aunt, uncle or whatever should be taking care of your children. I should not have to be expected to dodge multiple golf carts being driven by any teen tall enough to touch the pedals and you know that's true. no one checks these children, we don't have enough enforcement for that. I know it is not going to change, you know it and when yours or someone's child is killed suffers a brain injury don't go screaming to the police and public. PTC silver spooned, privileged children need some wake up calls. One of the Biggest violations three in the seat. why aren't seatbelts required at least for children under 18. go to target parking lot and sit or stroll for ten minutes you will get a good taste of how teens drive golf carts.

LongTimer
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Hey Seed Head, do you have eyes in your head?

"the girl on the phone, girl in middle with hair blowing in the win and girl driving Not looking forward to drive Are Not Sitting Still for a photo shoot. the cart is in motion, idiot."
The cart was stopped when the photo was shot, I was there.
You're a real piece of work.

PTC32YEARS
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Parking Permit

In order to buy a golf cart parking permit at McIntosh, the student must show they have a learner's permit. To park in the parking lot, you must have a permit. So the age of the drivers is at least 15.

I grew up here and drove the carts all the time. I am unclear about your comment about in the beginning the carts were not allowed for teens to troll around PTC. Your silver spooned, privilege comment is absurd. How many CARS are in the precious Starr's Mill parking lot? A $1500 golf cart is far from silver spooned.

myother
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Take a chill pill pumpkin

Constructive criticism is good. But, you come off as just being mad at the world.

suggarfoot
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that cart is stopped

and if you can't tell that....well...I feel sorry for you. Sounds like you hate PTC...why don't you move?

The Wedge
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Hmm pumpkin

A quick look at the pic shows that the "driver" does not have her right leg in a position to press the accelerator. In fact, it looks like the left leg is engaged on the brake of the golf cart. To me it is a staged picture that the girls knew was being taken.

My daughter has been stopped at two checkpoints and her permit has been checked in the past year. I have been stopped a one checkpoint in the past six months and I am decidedly not a teenager. To me, bicyclists on the roads riding three abreast are more of a problem to my driving and safety than those on the paths or any golf carts. Your class bias and envy shows a bit.

moelarrycurly
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The Citizen

Great photo accompanying the article. Perfect.

Golf cart seat designed for 2 adults, has 3 teens. Cell phone attached to ear. Driver not looking ahead, just really enjoying the conversation.

Thanks, Cal. Just a reminder we need more of this, much more. Maybe 600 more of these?

moelarrycurly
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BOC and PTC MEETINGS

on the same night at the same time. August 15th. Yes, be there at both, everyone.

Be at the one in PTC where the discussion will be about the SPLOST, in which the detail of WHERE our path money would be spent and ALSO be at the BOC meeting at the exact same time to discuss the PATH system adding hundreds of carts via a connection at Starrs Mill to the schools there.

How convenient, how insulting to those who live in this county.

Steve Brown
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Schedule conflicts

Sorry about the schedule conflicts with PTC and the County. We make out the schedules in December of the previous year and August was an odd month for us.

PTC has a system where you can view their meeting on the Internet after the fact if you like.

moelarrycurly
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Oh, sorry about the conflict..really

Chairman Brown? Of course, you have no authority to delay this discussion to a meeting night when it DOESN'T conflict with PTC, now do you?

Would August 29th or Sept. 12th be available to discuss this issue, Chairman?

Surely with all your powers of persuasion you could make this meeting available for those who live in the largest city in this county. The one with the most extensive cart path system in the county that will be impacted more than any other entity in this county?

moelarrycurly
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Sreve Brown-WTF???

Has this been thought thru or is it just 2 high school interns looking at ordinances on a website?

So, is there going to be an agenda item at the following meeting to change the age and to allow for Starrs Mill golf carts? How many carts? What age limits? Who is going to pay to build the path system connection at Redwine and Hwy 74? Who is going to pay to maintain the path system?

Since when was there a mandate that all of Fayette County be connected by a path system?

This is NUTS, Chairman Brown. I don't have to go to any meeting to tell you this. You want to create another PTC over in Fayetteville, that is all there is to this. Vacant land, build homes upon homes and connect them all by a path system. Get your nose out of Jim Pace's butthole and stop this unheralded ridiculous expansion of what is left of the rural quietness of this county.

Next, year, a connection that goes to Fulton and then to Coweta and then to Clayton? Or will it be six months from now?

I see you have Frisina and Jones just hopping on hot coals, don't you? Do it my way, or get out of the way. Just as Brown changed the wording of an ordinance before the last meeting himself after the FC Planning Comm. had voted 5-0 NO on it and Frisina was against the change.

Twenty county subdivisions listed above. How many carts? This is not just to the Starrs Mill complex and back. No, this will bring hundreds of teen golf carters onto the PTC path system.

Let's see what the PTC candidates think about this minor adjustment to what is already a policing problem in this city on our paths. Not to mention the lack of money to maintain them.

g8trgrl
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Golf Carts at Starr's Mill High School

Thank you Mr. Brown for looking into this. This is a great idea. So good for the environment! Safer for kids to drive golf carts than cars. I am in one of those neighborhoods and am considered a "golf cart community". I really hope the rules change to allow 15 year-olds to drive golf carts to SMHS!

Thank you!

KinderMom
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g8trgrl

What a breath of fresh air. Thank you for your post. I too live in one of those "golf cart designated communities", which is truly hysterical because we don't have a golf cart path. We have a recreation path which is used by all sorts of ATVs, golf carts, pedestrians, bicyclists, etc... And, if history is permitted as a basis for logical dialogue, there is absolutely no way that anyone can legally stop anyone of any age from operating any type of vehicle on this recreation path unless ordinances are carefully examined and some meaningful change and improvements can be initiated.

I could care less if I have access to PTC on my golf cart. I'm terribly sorry to burst the bubble (pun intended) of well meaning PTC residents. I want to get to the school triplex and pick up my child at Peeples Elementary without waiting in a car rider line that is so ridiculously backed up (don't thank Commissioner Brown in advance for what you think will happen to traffic under his plan regarding golf cart ordinances, you can send your thanks directly to the BOE for all their redistricting efforts which have effectively already made the fears of congestion on Redwine and Panther Path a harsh and tangible reality).

So, I'll beg a pardon for my ignorance in advance, but why is this discussion focused solely on high school students and a perceived lack of proper parenting of same? What about responsible parents of school children of all ages who just want to have safe (refer to opening paragraph about mixed use), quick and environmentally friendlier option for picking up and dropping off kids at this school triplex?

Better yet, I would walk to pick up my child from school, but I'm afraid I'll get run over by an ATV on the way.

The Wedge
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There is a bit more to do than an ordinance

SMHS does not allow licensed drivers (ie 16 yrs old) to use golf carts to commute and park at the high school. Even though it is legal with current ordinances, the principal and administration at SMHS do not allow the licensed juniors and seniors to use their golf carts as commuter carts that remain during the day. That mindset needs to change as well, otherwise it doesn't matter what Fayette county does as golf carts would still not be allowed to be used or get parking passes.

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