Regarding the Aug. 1 workshop meeting

Both Herb and Lee were getting a little angry yesterday and with good reason. Somebody has finally started holding them accountable.

This “roll-up” means some poor homeowner who has lost a significant amount of value in his home, most likely upside down in the mortgage, is going to pay an inflated rate of property on that devalued home. Herb and Lee support this.

Lee has been deficit spending every year he has been in office. When he said I do not have any solutions, he’s wrong. I offered the HB 240 solution that would have de-funded the West Fayetteville Bypass and used the funds for paying off debt service and tax relief. Herb, Robert and Lee voted me down.

I have consistently demanded that we bid all contracts. Mallet Consulting has been receiving no-bid contracts from the county and the county’s water utility for DECADES — we are talking tons of money. There are many other vendors who never see competitive bidding as well. Herb, Robert and Lee voted me down.

I have consistently asked for cuts in expenditures equal to the point of the revenue generated. Herb, Robert and Lee voted me down. I have asked to look into privatizing the building inspection department to generate cost savings. Herb, Robert and Lee voted me down and they RAISED the fees.

The three gave an across the board pay increase to staff and created other additional expenses over the last five years and had no revenue to fund it.

Lee pushed for purchasing a $300,000 piece of heavy equipment his year, not budgeted, at the same time we are deficit spending. They are spending hundreds of thousands on paving Snead Road for the adjacent developers and large land owner when we are deficit spending. Both cases, Herb, Robert and Lee voted me down.

After all the 2012 accounts are cleared, we will be left with diminished reserves and will be facing another large budget deficit next year.

Lee talking about protecting the citizens of Peachtree City and Fayetteville by raising the millage for the County Fire Fund is an absolute joke. For his entire four-year term, the county has been pulling the funds to operate the county’s Fire Department out of the county’s general fund, in direct contradiction to the creation of the county fire districts agreement with Peachtree City and Fayetteville.

Herb, Lee and Robert have literally been stealing from the two cities to pay for county services that they do not benefit from for the last FIVE years.

George Dienhart called me to complain. I told him to call you because I have been voicing my concerns regularly for months and it rarely gets in print.

I am tired of the lies from Herb, Robert and Lee about their financial stewardship. We are heading into major trouble soon and declining home values will make it a lot worse, but, again, they are deficit spending!

Steve Brown
Fayette County Board of Commissioners, Post 4
140 Stonewall Avenue, West
Suite 100
Fayetteville, GA 30214

americanpatriots
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Well said George

Thank you George for your blog regarding the Fayette County fire fund. Frady, Hearn and Horgan have been effectively STEALING money from PTC taxpayers for some time.

By dipping into the general fund, which has to be replaced with a fresh supply of money through an increased mill rate, Frady, Hearn, Horgan, and the twice-defeated Jack Smith, have been sticking it to PTC taxpayers for years.

These four guys should fess up and acknowledge the scam they have pulled on PTC residents.

NUK_1
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Hey Americanpatriots!

What do you feel about George's comments on how Don Haddix "scammed" PTC for 10K in legal fees and the action George and the rest of the council took to correct that mess?

You seemed very concerned about PTC residents in your post here, so what do you think about that? Agree? Disagree?

As much as I have harped on Don Haddix for a long time, I will give the man credit for one thing: he's not afraid to call BS when it's one of his supporters saying a bunch of crap. He stated clearly he didn't agree with the Steve Brown approach to Barlow's past hysterics on injecting religion into every discussion. Brown defends it to the hilt and Haddix says it's not the right approach at all. I can respect that.

You and all the other Brownies have never done that and I have no doubt you will go completely mute about George and the council vs. Haddix on the legal fees. After all, none of you can muster up ANYTHING about this:
http://archive.thecitizen.com/node/26339

Go ahead and form the Cult of Steve Brown already.

hutch866
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Nuk

Do you think the cult will have to wear that sumo hairline of Steve's?

americanpatriots
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Let's finish the job

Let’s finish the job and vote Hearn out of office 8/21/12.

Do you want more of the good ole’ boys tricks that Lee Hearn and his pals Herb Frady, Robert Horgan and the former chairman, Jack Smith, have played on us for years or have you had enough?

The answer to that is quite obvious: Smith was defeated twice, Frady is retiring because he knew he had absolutely no chance of being re-elected, and Horgan was just voted out in the primary election on 7/31/12.

Let’s finish the job and vote Hearn out of office on 8/21/12.

Examples of what Hearn and his pals have done include:

Stopping the East Fayetteville Bypass after sinking $600,000 into the project

Changed the priority from the East Bypass to the West Bypass in spite of the overwhelming citizen’s outcry. They went ahead with the “developer friendly” West Bypass and plowed all of our money into a road to nowhere. The West Bypass was not even eligible for any federal funding because the federal government did not consider it worthwhile.

Hearn, sensing a defeat in the upcoming election, had an epiphany earlier this year and began talking about stopping the West Bypass and diverting funds to the East Bypass. Everyone quickly caught on to this charade and saw that he was only saying that to help him in his re-election campaign.

Hearn voted to approve a $500,000 employee bonus scheme that never appeared on the public agenda.

Hearn voted in June 2012 to approve the employee early retirement plan that cost us $3 million of “upfront” costs.

Hearn appointed his relative, Addison Lester, his cousin, to the elections board and lied about the family connection.

Hearn voted for the Defined Benefit employee retirement plan that has the potential to bankrupt the county in the future.

Hearn voted to spend almost $100,000 to pave a short gravel road (Snead Road) that only had two driveways and 10 or 12 lots that could be developed after the road was upgraded and paved.

Hearn is a career government employee and wants to be re-elected so that he can cash in on
the Fayette County retirement plan.

Hearn voted for numerous “no-bid” contracts, which denied us to find out if there were other contractors that could do the job for less money.

Space is limited so I will have to close by saying: DO NOT VOTE FOR LEE HEARN.

Jim Richter

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Huddleston & Hearn signs replacing Barlow's & Ognio's signs

Barlow and Ognio signs are disappearing fast.

Huddleston and Hearn supporters have apparently resorted to desperate measures to avoid their candidate’s inevitable defeat.

Barlow and Ognio campaign signs are disappearing all over the county and Huddleston and Hearn signs have been put up in place of their signs.

Question for Hearn and Huddleston - are your supporters so desperate for you to win that they are willing to get caught and be prosecuted?

Where is their sense of fair play and decency? The citizens of Fayette County deserve better than this despicable behavior.

Jim Richter

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Stop being a drama queen, Jim

You sound like a 6 year old with all of your whining and your incessant postings of the same damn blog in multiple places. Grow up, already.

Do you want to know why a sorry candidate like Lee Hearn can get 7,000 votes and be in a run-off for his re-election bid? It's because there is a significant chunk of voters who are worried about turning over Fayette county to some crazies who act like immature losers. Ognio is NOT a crazy as far as I can tell, but the hysterical and the sheeple flocked to his side. I hope he can win anyway and then promptly tell the crazies to shut the hell up for a while. I think he just might do it too.

You goofy people are not giving Ognio any help at all. On one hand you have Steve Brown caught in lie after lie in the past week about Lee Hearn, about what I have posted here that is a very public record, about another poster hutch, etc. etc. Then the campaign sign nonsense that happens every election no matter who is running, and you posting the same crap over and over in different places. Seemingly, the fringe of FC isn't ready to lead and is still stuck in the whine-bitch-accuse mode as usual. You raise holy hell about Huddleston not attending FC commission meetings and are absolutely silent about the same fact that Greg clifton attended ZERO meetings of th Fayetteville City council before unseating you hated enemy Ken Steele.

You people are total hypocrites. The only way sometimes you can win is running against the sorriest of the sorry. Even then, you have a tough time because you currently burden a guy like Ognio with your nutty crap. Barlow did it to himself but you sure aren't helping Ognio and a few more blasts from Hypocrite and Liar Steve Brown for Barlow may just doom him.

GeorgeDienhart
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County Fire Fund

I'll be sending out a letter to the editor, but for now, I'll just comment here. Peachtree City is in a situation where we will have to cut services or raise the millage. It is unconscionable that my constituents are paying for two fire departments, while we are asking them to bear an increase in the millage. Mr. Hearn, Mr. Frady and Mr. Horgan; I appreciate that times are tough and it is hard to balance the books. Please do it WITHOUT dipping into my constituents pockets. If you are incapable of balancing your fire department budget, raise your millage rates accordingly. The General Funds and Fire funds are separated to keep people in Fayetteville and Peachtree City from paying into the fire fund. If you use General Fund money for the fire department you are stealing from Peachtree City and Fayetteville. I await your response. I hope it will be in the form of a rebate to the citizens of Peachtree City and Fayetteville.

americanpatriots
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Peter, you said a lot without saying anything new or relevant

Well Peter, you have not lost your ability to say a lot without really saying anything new or anything relevant.

We all know who came up with the idea of the Defined Benefit Plan and who approved it. Jack Smith, Lee Hearn and Robert Horgan approved it, Eric Maxwell abstained, and Herb Frady voted against. I was surprised to see that Herb got it right!

Neither you, Greg Dunn, Bob Ross, Pat Hinchey, me or anyone else could have stopped the train once Krakeel, Smith, Hearn and Horgan put it in motion.

You and Greg had been replaced when the DB Plan was adopted, and I might add that in your case it was a very good thing that you had been replaced. I have yet to find anyone that was sad to see you go!

Now that we have sufficiently slammed one another, lets agree that something needs to be done to undo what was DONE TO US by Smith, Hearn. Horgan, and Krakeel.

The first step is to get rid of the cabal of Frady, Hearn and Horgan and then elect Barlow and Ogino to replace that despised group.

Frady is retiring, Horgan was defeated, so let’s finish the job and kick Hearn out of office.

We already have a county lawyer, Scott Bennett, advising the board at every meeting and the VERY LAST THING WE NEED is another lawyer, Sheila Huddleston, sitting at the table who has no practical business experience whatsoever!

Jim Richter

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Portland Transit System benefits

In my research on Portland, OR's transit system I found they were paying something like a $1.63 in benefits for every $1.00 they collected. And it is getting worse.

These systems, because they are politically attached, often get into huge trouble.

americanpatriots
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Defined benefit plans

Fox News reported today that the State of Illinois would spend more on government pensions than education in 2013.

Folks, the system is broken!

Government pension plans will bankrupt every government agency in the near future.

Why did we let this happen?

Who is responsible?

This is exactly what others and I have been harping on for the last three years about the Defined Benefit Plan that Jack Smith, Jack Krakeel, Lee Hearn, and Robert Horgan thrust upon us. They did a number on us and the Defined Benefit Plan has the potential of bankrupting Fayette County in the not-to-distant future.

We defeated Jack Smith twice, Robert Horgan once on 7/31/12, and Herb Frady is retiring in January.

Let’s finish the job and show Lee Hearn the door!

Lee Hearn has to be defeated 8/21/12 and he will if the voters have been paying attention to what he and his pals have DONE TO the taxpayers of Fayette County.

ginga1414
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Mr. Pfeifer, RWM and I Have Questions

Since you, Greg Dunn, and Rick Price have a long history in Fayette County politics, and you are the one responding here, you seem to be the logical person to answer some questions.

Considering the fact that you have been on the inside, so to speak, maybe you don't realize that a whole lot of private citizens just plain don't know where to start with political types.

I once was one of those private citizens. I have known since 1985 that the county intended to take part of my property for the WFB. I was not pleased with the idea at all. However from what I could gather, I had NO CHOICE in the matter!

There is truly a metamorphosis that takes place when a private citizen becomes politically tuned-in. It is a slow process because politicians change from time to time. A true politician fights the process because they want to remain in office. Anyway, the process requires the private citizen to learn a new language. That new language is called political double-talk! The private citizen has to learn how to request and dig through mounds of paper work that should be a matter of public record. I could go on and on with this, but I'm sure you're not interested.

For many, many years, I watched the situation through Commission Meetings. There was never enough money to build the road.

Then on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 at 6:00 pm, in the public meeting room of the Fayette County Administrative Complex Commission Chairman Greg Dunn presided over a "Special Joint Meeting - County & Cities (AFCG)."

According to the document I have, Mr. Pfeifer, you were one of our county commissioners and you were present at the Association of Fayette County Governments (AFCG) meeting on Oct. 28, 2003.

Quoting from the minutes, in his opening statement at that meeting, Commission Chairman Greg Dunn said, "there was one top priority tonight and that was to choose the county's top three priorities for the next transportation improvement program."

The document I have is very lengthy so I will cut to the chase. The last page reads as follows: "COUNTY-WIDE ROAD PRIORITY PROJECTS (APPROVED BY COUNTY AND CITY OFFICIALS ON OCTOBER 28, 2003)

Top 3 in Priority Order
1. East Fayetteville By-Pass
2. State Route Highway 54 Widening (to Clayton County)
3. West Fayetteville By-Pass"

I've read through that document many, many, many times. I have never seen where you, or Mr. Dunn, or Herb Frady, A.G. VanLandingham, Chris Cofty, or Lee Hearn (then Public Works Director) opposed either the East Fayetteville Bypass or the West Fayetteville Bypass. I did see where Steve Brown questioned, several times, the sensibility of both projects.

At one point during the meeting, "Chairman Dunn said....that the time has come in Fayette County where the people who spend money in Fayette County were going to be asked to help build roads in Fayette County. He said a S.P.L.O.S.T. was probably going to be required to generate the kind of money needed to make this twenty-seven year plan work..... He said the county would not have to spend this money (SPLOST money) in five years but the county would have to spend the money on what it says it would be spending it on."

I could go on like this in minute detail, Mr. Pfeifer. However, for the sake of time and space I will say that I have a copy of the Resolution (including Exhibits A and B. Exhibit B includes the EFB and WFB) calling for a Referendum for a county Transportation SPLOST. I also have a copy of the Ballot that does not mention Exhibits A or B. All of that was accomplished under Mr. Dunn's watch.

Also, I have a document dated Aug. 17, 2005 from Mallett Consulting, Inc. to Ms. Chris Venice County Administrator requesting, "As required by our Agreement with the County, we are requesting Notice To Proceed on the following SPLOST Program Projects." The top three projects on Mallett Consulting's list were R-5 West Fayetteville Bypass - Northern Section - Phase II, R-28 West Fayetteville Bypass - Southern Section - Phase I, and R-8 East Fayetteville Bypass. That was done on Mr. Dunn's watch.

I have a copy of The Agenda from the Sept. 7, 2005 Commission Workshop Meeting where Item #3 under Consent Agenda says "Approval of request of the Notice to Proceed on the SPLOST Program Projects as required by the SPLOST agreement and recommended by the SPLOST Project Manager Mallett & Associates." At that time, Greg Dunn was Commission Chairman.

In light of all that, Mr. Pfeifer, will you please explain to me how keeping Greg Dunn in office would have changed the outcome of Phase II of the West Fayetteville Bypass when Mr. Dunn is the person who presumably (he was the commanding public official) signed the Agreement with Mallett Consulting to do the work on all phases of the East and West Bypasses? Would it have required Mr. Dunn ordering the county attorney to break the "Agreement" with Mallett Consulting?

I had several conversations with Mr. Dunn pertaining to Phase II of the West Bypass (after he was out of office), and he told me that it was never his intention to go past Phase I (around the hospital) of the West Bypass. I didn't mention the fact that I had the above documents because I wanted to see where Mr. Dunn would go with his statements. You see by that time, my dumb private citizen state to politically wary citizen "metamorphosis" had begun to take shape.

BTW, if you will take a look at the current Agenda for the Aug. 9th Commission Meeting, Item #1 under Old Business reads as follows: "Consideration of staff's recommendation to transmit a request to the Atlanta Regional Commission to reallocate PLAN 2040 federal funds from the West Fayetteville Bypass, Phase 3 (FA-235C) to the East Fayetteville Bypass (FA-236A and FA-236B)." Since you have been on the "inside," of our county politics, maybe you could explain that to me and everyone else, also.

ginga1414
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Mr. Pfeifer, Barlow and Ognio Signs Disappearing

It has just come to my attention that I now have a few more reasons why I can't vote for your candidate, Sheila Huddleston.

Barlow and Ognio campaign signs that were put in place yesterday have disappeared. Huddleston and Hearn signs have replaced the Barlow and Ognio signs.

Some Barlow and Ognio signs have been found in dumpsters.

Surely, Huddleston and Hearn supporters know that it is stealing to remove candidate signs and put them in dumpsters and the county dump.

Peter Pfeifer
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To Richter; who is responsible?

Jim Richter has written recently wondering about how Fayette County ended up with a Defined Benefit Plan.

Hear hear Jim. You are exactly correct about the Defined Benefit Plan. I see you say that “others and I have been harping on for the last three years”. Well, Jim, better late than never. But, your lateness to the fight isn’t what I hold against you. It’s your attitude that even though you came late, that now it’s your party.

Not your history, but the real history of the DB Plan goes back to when it was initiated by Smith, Frady, Maxwell and Horgan. Opposed by me. You see Jim; this conflict has been going on since at least 2006. That’s when Maxwell and Smith defeated Dunn and Wells. I don’t recall seeing you around for those campaigns, Jim.

After they took over the Commission and began to put a Defined Benefit Plan into place, I don’t remember seeing you then either. I do remember seeing Rick Price criticize a DB Plan during Public Comment. I remember Greg Dunn and Bob Ross and Pat Hinchey speaking up about it too. But I don’t remember you. Maybe you were around but didn’t leave an impression.

Jim, one of the reasons that Lee Hearn ran against me in 2008 was because of my very vocal opposition to a Defined Benefit Plan. That was also one of the reasons that Greg Dunn ran against Horgan. And, Bob Furman ran against Herb. Were you involved in any of those campaigns Jim? I don’t remember seeing you.

There was a forum in 2008 that featured a lot of discussion about a DB Plan. If you didn’t make it to that forum, you could look on the internet. Look for the YouTube video of a debate/forum from that election. And no Jim, David Barlow didn’t video and post that forum. It was Janet Dunn who did that. It was before David got involved too.

And, Jim, I don’t remember you “harping” about the DB Plan then. But, you see Jim, if you had and if you and the many others who are finally involved now, had been involved then and helped us to defeat Smith, Maxwell, Horgan, Frady and Hearn; we wouldn’t have a DB Plan for you to have “been harping on”.

We also wouldn’t have the West Fayetteville Bypass; we wouldn’t have had the no-bid contracts, the items off the agenda, the lack of trust or any of the other items you are so recently upset about. There wouldn’t have been a 4-1 majority in my last two years, a 5-0 for the next two years and there wouldn’t have been the 3-2 majority we had these last two years.

And, Jim, I don’t remember Steve Brown taking part in the debates over those issues when they could have been stopped or never started.

But, now you say; “Why did we let this happen? Who is responsible?” Why Jim, it’s you who’s responsible. Why did you let this happen?

Welcome to both of you Jim and Steve, even though you came too late to prevent these things by helping those of us who had been fighting for years on these issues.

Vote for Sheila Huddleston.

Peter Pfeifer

ginga1414
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Mr. Pfeifer, After Reading My Comment

You will surely understand why I find it impossible to vote for your candidate, Sheila Huddleston.

No matter how nice and sincere they seem, I just can't trust folks using "political double-talk."

PTC Observer
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Peter

Well said Peter, the citizens can't say they didn't have a choice. They simply blew it!

Robert W. Morgan
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Yes Peter - very well said. But, let me axe you sumpin'

Any person of modest intelligence can see that a defined benefit retirement plan is not something any government entity should ever consider. First the risk, secondly placing an unknown burden on future commissions and councils - which should be illegal and of course the burden on future taxpayers. So here we have a CPA and a lawyer and a business owner serving on county commission and regardless of what you or I may think of these 3 (Hearn doesn't count - he's a government employee and on the receiving end of the defined benefit plan) anyway those 3 surely have the intellect to understand that this is a bad thing. Yet they pushed for it. Why? It is not what is best for the county or the taxpayers. The "helps attract and retain better employees" is laughable. So why?

Only possible explanation is a hidden agenda or personal financial gain. I don't see any evidence of either. So why do they support it?

And another question. Why is Hearn involved in all this. He's a government employee. Shouldn't he recuse himself from these discussions and votes? In fact why is a government employee allowed to run for elected office at all? I mean the man is in a position to create personal and financial policies that affect his own job? I know he may be in Henry County today, but he could come back to Fayette County at the drop of a hat. Even if he does that after he is no longer on the commission, something still smells bad about that.

PTC Observer
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RWM - I'll

I'll answer that one!

Re-election using a special interest block called "government employees".

You don't really think these guys had the long term interest of the county citizens in mind do you? Their excuse at the time was that we have to attract and keep good public employees was a ruse. Everyone knew this at the time and everyone, or most, sat on their hands and just let them do it.

Bob Ross attempted to convince them of the error of their ways but the deed was already done by then. Now because of citizen inattention in their own government, we are saddled with a financial burden that won't go away. Unless of course the new board proves to have a backbone.

Steve Brown
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Robert Morgan

Ask Jack Krakeel why they created the plan. It's pretty obvious when you look who got the big payoff.

Remember, there were constant promises of substantial savings with the plan and with the ERIP. Ask Jack about those savings.

Robert W. Morgan
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Well that didn't work out too well for Jack, Eric and Robert

and Jack a second time, did it? And it shouldn't work out for Hearn either as long as taxpayers outnumber government employees. We still do outnumber them, don't we?

Even if it is just pandering to government workers, can't anyone (including the workers) see what eventually happens when times get real tough and citys and counties declare bankruptcy specifically to extract themselves from unaffordable retirement plans. What happens is their new defined benefit amounts to $0. How does that help?

I still don't understand the irresponsibility of creating such an open-ended liability for the taxpayers (and voters) just to get some votes from government workers. It is so transparent and childish. Not saying it is impossible, but there must be another reason as well.

Huddleston and Ognio.

PTC Observer
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RWM - That's because

You are rational and don't covet power, this is something that only those that run for office and win understand fully. Once they have sipped the CoolAid and discover the rush of undeserved power do they then devise schemes for re-election. They quickly forget that they are there to represent the citizens' interest. You see men/women without virtue are always corrupted by power which leads to corrupted government at the expense of the citizens. Our representative government is only as good as the character of its citizens and the people they elect. An uninformed, uninterested and slough citizen is is in fact the biggest threat to our freedom. Citizens that don't participate get the government they deserve and define benefit plans that they can't afford.

ginga1414
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Mr. Richter, Defined Benefit Plan

I'm not sure I completely understand how the Defined Benefit Plan works.

Would you please explain it so that someone like me who doesn't have a degree in accounting might understand it better?

Steve Brown
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With GREAT joy: I was wrong.

I had known that Lee Hearn was wanting to cash in on the county pension plan, but all I had heard to the contrary is that county commissioners are not employees - I know that could not be defended.

However, I had HR pull up the specific language of the Defined Benefit Pension Plan and within the language of the plan, specifically Section 19, it states that elected officials are not counted as employees under the definition in the Defined Benefit Pension Plan itself.

I was wrong and I am glad to see that the person who gave us the West Fayetteville Bypass, appointing relatives to the Board of Elections, four years of deficit spending, running the county Fire Fund into the ground, "no-bid" contracts, votes on items that never appeared on a public agenda, voted to keep us in region and state mass transit plans and so much more will not get a payout at the end of his tenure as an elected official.

hutch866
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No Steve

You weren't wrong, you LIED. There is a difference.

hutch866
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No NUK

Not surprised at all NUK, and his so called apology to me was no better then he gave to Hearn, which was no apology at all. I'm sure I was supposed to fell all warm and fuzzy, and for a moment I did, but turned out it was just my cat rubbing on my leg.

The Brownies were out in force today, I just wonder, do they get an email outlining their position, or wing it after reading their masters post or letter.

I especially like how Steve and Ginga can tell me what I think, what I do for a living, who I support, how I voted, etc, etc. Well Steve is Steve, and we're stuck with him, at least here in Fayetteville we don't have to deal with Haddix. Thank goodness for that.

NUK_1
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hutch: Yeah, the Brownies went nutzo today

I guess they had a mass e-mail last night sent to the crazies telling them to get on here and screech about campaign signs, how Sheila Huddleston is obviously a pawn of Lee Hearn, a sign-stealer, an "unknown?" because she doesn't clog the newspaper or FC meetings with the usual whining the zombies need to feed themselves, and how Hearn isn't actually running to qualify for a pension plan that he can't qualify for. Oh wait, that last part probably got left out of that email.

NUK_1
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hutch: Suprised?

Brown doesn't read much of anything besides his own blather and then thinks "I am soooo cool! I got the ginga's and pip's and americanpatriots worshiping me."

He showed he has no clue about what you or I have said over and over and OVER. He only reads the Amen Choir congrats. Instead, it's just the "you hate me" BS. While I have to give him a slight ounce of credit for admitting to me that he was mistaken about my position on the FC Commission and his own views for that matter and also apologizing to you about being totally wrong yet again, neither would have been necessary if he wan't a total hypocrite and self-absorbed goof.

As far as the "Hearn only wants to be commissioner again so he can qualify for the FC defined benefit plan," yep, total LIE. What makes it even worse is that he's been a commissioner for a while and didn't have a clue that it isn't possible. Matter of fact, he challenged those who called "BS" on this lie to go ask Lee Hearn personally about it. That's OK, the acolytes will be silent on this issue just like they will NEVER NEVER NEVER answer anything about this:
http://archive.thecitizen.com/node/26339

They worship the person, not what he believes. If he did a TDK/District Voting/Westside Annexation flip-flop yet again only this time for re-electing Lee Hearn, Hearn would get all of their votes.

jbcriswell
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You call this admitting you were wrong?

What a twisted way of admitting guilt! You took what should have been an opportunity to apologize for spreading a lie about Lee Hearn and turned it into another of your venomous attacks on him. The only reason you finally half-way admitted you were wrong is because you have been called on it so many times in the past few days. Sorry to see you haven't been called out on many of your other posts; getting away with them has you daydreaming of the Chairman's seat.

ginga1414
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Steve Brown and RWM, Thank Goodness For Small Favors

I just tell you, I am very relieved to know that I don't have to pay for Lee Hearn's retirement benefits!!

After the number of pies that man has had his fingers in, if I had to pay for his retirement benefits as well....

I agree with RWM. Lee Hearn is receiving more than his fair share of the public's finances.

I'm all for telling Lee that we want to cut the stings in Fayette County. Let Henry County have him!

Robert W. Morgan
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Not so fast, ginga

I will bet that before Hearn retires from his day job as a government employee that he puts in another stint in Fayette County as a manager of something - maybe even county manager and does get his hands on some of that defined benefit money.

Ognio and Huddleston. Please.

ginga1414
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Oh, RWM

Just PLEASE deliver us all from Lee Hearn being a Fayette County manager of anything!

That possibility is beyond scary.

In fact, it is downright funny!

Robert W. Morgan
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They tried to bring Rapson back as city manager

so nothing is impossible, ginga. These people sit up at night and talk about it or talk against it. Maxwell, Webb, Flemming, Smith, Royal (not so much - he's a political agnostic), Logsdon, Truitt, Amos, Rossetti, Geeslin, Drake, Warner, Adams, Pace, Lenox, Bray, Black, Bonner, Johnson, the other Johnson, Dunn, Wells, Melear (well maybe not now), etc. I will throw in everybody that belongs to the Chamber of Commerce and the Rotary to stimulate Steve Brown - who of course is unhappy he is not invited to the the political meetings at Y-knots - or wherever it is he/they are. Nothing actually comes of all this since no one with half a brain would put himself on the firing line that passes for political discourse on this county or city. But they do talk about it and Hearn is a tool for them to get back the power. He is a dog that lies down on his back with belly up waiting to get scratched and waits for instructions. Sure, let's reelect him so we can have our way with him. Not realistic, but when has that ever stopped anyone.

Barlow Hearn for "the way we were" - salute to Marvin Hamlich - RIP.
OR, Huddleston Ognio for the way we can be.

Robert W. Morgan
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Well Steve, you might have been partially right

Hearn is a county government employee - Henry County for now and he used to be a Fayette County employee. So, as I asked before -

Why is Hearn involved in all this defined benefit discussions. He's a government employee. Shouldn't he recuse himself from these negotiations and votes? In fact why is a government employee allowed to run for elected office at all? I mean the man is in a position to create personnel, retirement and financial policies that affect his own job - or his future job. I know he may be in Henry County today, but he could come back to Fayette County at the drop of a hat. Even if he does that after he is no longer on the commission, something still smells bad about that not so impartial oversight.

Am I the only one that sees a conflict in this? Of course, in theory any elected official can get hired by the county when his term is completed and that's deemed ok. I don't think it ever happened here, but it might. Herb might be on the short list for county manager for all I know.

AtHomeGym
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Morgan & "theory"

C'mon Bobby, try to keep up--we just brought Krakeel back on an interim basis as County Mgr--so it ain't just theory!

AtHomeGym
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Morgan & Hearn

I believe Hearn is a city employee of McDonough, not Henry Co. As an elected official in Fayette (yes, WE, the voters did that) I see no reason he should not be involved in matters pertaining to FC employees--hey, that's what our Commissioners do!

NUK_1
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Yeah, you were wrong

rather than check out the FACTS first, you just posted a complete falsehood.

mudcat
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No ginga, Richter is just a bomb thrower. I will explain it

Defined benefit means that a city worker - say the landscape guy, well no we fired them. Instead say the public works guy who makes $50,000 per year (yea I know that is $1,000 per week, but that's real) let's say he retires after 15 or 20 years. He gets a specific amount of money each month - say $5,000 until he dies. If the retirement investment fund that the county has selected to produce that $5,000 per month does not do well, well then the city or the county makes up the difference from the taxpayers and the retired worker still gets his $5k each month. Seem fair to you?

You think that ship ain't gonna sink? Please spare me!

I do believe some of the people running for office right now actually think this "defined retirement benefit" is a good idea. Please, let us sweep them out.

ginga1414
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Mr. Garlock and mudkitty, Defined Benefit Plan

Thank you both, very much.

I understand the Plan much better, now.

In the case of Fayette County's Defined Benefit Plan, I guess the problem, right now, is the fact that the plan hasn't been in existence long enough to build up reserves. In addition to that, investments haven't been good because of the market and the economy as a whole. Therefore, the money isn't there to supply retirement funds for all the thirty-something county employees who have retired.

Is that correct?

NUK_1
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Defined benefit vs. defined contribution

As Terry and Mudcat stated pretty well, there are big differences in the two plans, but the devil is in the details. I have seen some defined benefit plans in the past couple of years that definitely favor the employer over the employee, so you can't always assume that defined benefit plan=great deal for the worker and kind of a burden on future employees(or in the govt's case, taxpayers). Jim richter is completely correct that most defined benefit plans that governments local/state/federal used in the past are now costing a ton and just an awful financial burden on taxpayers and everyone else, except for the retirees who maybe went to work for govt in exchange for lesser wages and that was a trade-off for them. Screwing these retirees over isn't really an option, but changing the current system to decrease this happening in the future is. FC dropped the ball on this....twice now.

It's not a real secret that most traditional defined benefits plans(lots of govts used them, so did big corps like Delta, all the auto mfgs, etc)) really "favored" the employee with some longevity and put a big burden on the employer in the future. It's easy for a company or govt to give out excellent retirement options when things are going well......when they aren't, UGH. That is why the govt invented an agency called PBGC that has to absorb some of the pension plans that bankrupt companies. Problem is, PBGC has a pretty low limit on what it pays out to pensioners from companies they assume the plans from.

A big problem with this compensation model is that people get reluctant to fire sorry employees because the employee may be close to reaching a milestone to qualify for the plan and the employer has a heart(or a union contract in the way) or you may have the opposite of a private employer that starts breaking out the axe so you get let go right before you qualify.

Social Security is a "hybrid" plan that uses both elements of defined contribution-what you pay in GENERALLY affects how much you get in the future, though there are plenty of people who receive SS benefits who never paid a dime into it-along with the defined benefit of you'll get this until you die and your spouse will get X after that. The big kicker for SS is that it requires everyone in the USA to sign up for it and have monies deducted in order to pay for the people that came before you. The other pension plans cannot force participants to join under the threat of imprisonment, though some union/state contracts do require your participation. Of course, you can move to a right-to-work state and avoid that socialist crap.

tgarlock
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As far as investment advice goes . . . .

. . . . I can no longer help anyone but myself, and I need good luck with that as well.

For years I was a registered representative of a broker dealer and a Registered Investment Advisor, but all that changed a few years ago when the current crop of fiscal lunatics took control in Washington. All of a sudden, the economic common sense principles that had guided us for 80 years did not apply, and with so much uncertainty I could no longer in good conscience give investment advice to clients, so I resigned all my investment licenses and quit that side of the business.

So, since investment planning is now in my estimation a close relative of voodoo, I have no idea how to tell anyone what might happen to a retirement fund, and I would regard any org taking on the fixed risk of a defined benefit plan to be naive at best, reckless at worst.

So the answer to your question is, "I don't know." And this is only opinion, but I would add that anyone who tells you they do know is either lying or stupid.

Terry Garlock

PTC Observer
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Mr. Garlock - After

That little outburst of yours concerning the little man we call our Mayor, I though I liked you. With this post I am sure of it.

There's something nice about knowing there are still honorable men among us.

tgarlock
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PTCO, thanks for the compliment . . .

. . . and as you and I know, the number of Americans who even understand the term "honorable" is diminishing rapidly.

Terry Garlock

tgarlock
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You didn't ask me about defined benefit . . .

. . . but I'll answer since I have a financial background.

Defined benefit is a traditional retirement plan in which the employer "defines" the retirement benefit the employee shall receive. Over the life of employment, contributions to the plan are made by the employer and perhaps the employee, and the employer invests the money in hopes it will grow. If the stock market takes a dive, the employer must contribute more to the plan to maintain legal minimums, and if the plan doesn't have enough money when the employee retires, the employer must make up the difference. The financial risk of making payments, and the risk of the employee living past actuarial life expectancy, is on the employer because the benefit is "defined."

For the very reason all the risk is on the employer, America's business, and many govt units, too, have been engaged for decades now in fleeing away from defined benefit packages, and going instead to a "defined contribution" retirement plan.

In a defined contribution plan, it is the employer and employee contribution that is defined, not the ultimate retirement payout. The employee may have control over investment decisions of the money in the plan, and however much is in the plan at retirement will determine how much the employee can receive. A 401K is a defined contribution plan. The risk here is on the employee - once the employer makes his contribution, he is off the hook.

So the appeal for switching from defined benefit to defined contribution should be clear, and American business have been engaged in that switch for a long time. That doesn't mean defined benefit plans are dead, many businesses and government orgs use a hybrid, a mix of the two, to balance who bears the risk and also to attract good employees.

The thing to remember with defined benefit plans is the need to look past rosy projections and pose the question of what happens to the employer obligation if the stock market tanks? Each plan is different and it takes more knowledge than I have to do a competent analysis.

Terry Garlock

PTC Observer
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Mr. Garlock - For

For your reading pleasure, a thesis on why we are all in deep do do...including defined benefit instituted by political morons.

http://www.pimco.com/EN/Insights/Pages/Cult-Figures.aspx

Good luck on investment advice in our current environment, you'll need it.

Gold is cheap.....today.

Davids mom
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Mr. Garlock

Great explanation. Thanks!

americanpatriots
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Steve, there's much more to the story!

I feel your frustration with having to deal with Frady, Hearn and Horgan. But, the end is in sight and we will finally be rid of the four that formed the cabal led by Jack Smith.

Lee Hearn recommended and voted with his pals Frady and Horgan to pave a very short gravel road on Snead at a cost of over $200,000 that will only be used by the residents of two properties.

And, surprise, surprise! The land developer of those two lots can now sell eight more lots that had very little value until OUR MONEY was used for this insane project.

This project should cause everybody to ask why did this waste of OUR MONEY occur? Is this another example, just like the West Fayetteville Bypass, of taxpayer money being used to help a Fayette County land developer?

The end of the unbelievably bad decisions made by Frady, Hearn, and Horgan can’t come soon enough for me and anyone else that has taken the time to dig into what has been going on for years under the leadership of these three!

Jim Richter

Steve Brown
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Robert Morgan, Nuk and Hutch support this stuff

It's amazing how the anonymous attack bloggers support what Herb Frady, Lee Hearn and Robert Horgan have done over the last four years.

We all know they hate me. I got over that a long time ago. And the voters are paying little attention to the anonymous bloggers as their candidates just keep losing.

The choices are extremely clear. If you want to turn things around, vote for David Barlow and Randy Ognio.

Steve Brown
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Randy Clokey (a.k.a. Hutch)

Randy, you are correct, my bad. You were only slamming me and not David Barlow. I went back and checked.

Are you the air conditioning guy?

hutch866
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Steve Brown

Your bad? Why yes it was Steve, just one of several lies you've voiced about me, going back several years in fact. In regards to the a/c thing, that depends on the season, why does that matter?

You've only answered part of the challenge Steve, I'm still waiting for you to show me where I've ever supported your 3 amigo's. To set your mind at ease Steve, ( because Lord knows I lay awake at night worrying about your mindset) I have yet to vote for an incumbent here in Fayette, city or county, but don't let that get in the way of your lies about me.

hutch866
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Here's a challange for you Steve

But I know you won't take it, the other day you said I slammed Barlow, you said it several times. Show me where Steve, show me anywhere on here where I slammed him. Here's another for you O lying one, show me where I've ever said anything supporting Frady, Hearn or Horgan. I know you can't Steve, because this is just another of YOUR lies. If people will recall, and I know you do Steve, because it burnt your ass, I was the one pushing for the cyclist to be elected.

So come on Steve, show me where, anywhere I slammed or pulled as you say. Then maybe you can provide proof about your latest accusation on Hearn. What happened there Steve, did you get so used to the half truths that you slid over the line by accident. A real man would admit that Steve.

The fact is Steve, I don't hate you. You're not worthy of hate. Now contempt, there you have me Steve, after watching you on this site twist the truth, suggest things about other people but offer no proof, and how your minions, (like the flying monkeys on the Wizard of Oz) do your bidding using the same tactics, yes I have contempt for you Steve.

My name is Randy Clokey, and I approve this message. There's not one lie in it, to bad Steve can't say the same about his post.

Steve Brown
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Not you though

Nuk, I said you supported what the 3 amigos were doing, not them personally.

I gave Hutch is due, but Nuk, you are the real McCoy.

Shame on you for attacking someone based on their religious faith.

NUK_1
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When did I say I supported what the 3 Stooges were doing?

Deficit spending? NO
Roundabout/Wasteful road projects? NO
WFB? NO
EFB?: HELL NO

I never voted for the 3 or 4 Stooges in the past and voted Ognio, Oddo and Huddleston in the present. How is that for "support?"

I also never attacked Barlow based on his religious faith, which is more of your usual BS. I attacked the man and how he chooses to exercise his faith, not the faith itself, which is fair game. So simple even a caveman can understand it. Hell, even Don Haddix agrees!

Don Haddix
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Haddix: NUK

Now remember, Barlow gets it and understands he is not running for preacher.

Credit where credit is due.

That also extends to Huddleston, where she has not filed her CCDR and has only given sound bites, not positions, on critical matters in the County.

She is also involved with Pfiefer and crew. Another deficit.

Those are issues that do not deserve a vote. We have seen too many stealth candidates before, or those who say one thing and then do another.

Which is more important, being open and honest or being stealth? I will take open and honest.

I voted for Barlow, Oddo and Ognio and will vote for Barlow and Ognio in the runoff.

NUK_1
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Steve and Harry Reid like to just make stuff up

I have never supported or voted for the 3 Stooges or 4 when Maxwell was on there and I don't seem to recall most of the people posting here anonymously(which is the vast majority, duh)stating they voted for them either, except RWM.

As far as "our candidates losing," another total fabrication. You are quite on a roll lately with BS. I voted for Babb, McMillan,Ognio, Oddo, Huddleston, Marchman, Ballacao. Yeah, lots of losing candidates there, Steve! The only candidate I voted for who lost on election day was Sanderson.
None of this hardly a secret since there are tons of posts about all of them from myself and others and how people were going to vote. In other words, you don't what the hell you are talking about.

When you ran against Jack Smith(talk about a really bad choice), I voted for Bald Headed Cyclist and so did a few others. See, you don't have to vote for the lesser of the two evils.