Let’s hear from Frady, Horgan and Hearn

I for one would like to hear from [Fayette County] commissioners Horgan, Frady and Hearn about where they stand on the West Fayetteville Bypass and the mass transit buses.

Commissioners Smith and Maxwell gave us an ear-full about how we the voters had to accept what they said no matter what. As a result, we showed them the door.

I’m hoping the other three have the backbone to do what’s right and to do what the voters have asked of them.

We’ve heard all of the excuses. We certainly don’t need any more excuses. We’re sick of excuses. We finally need some action. Do commissioners Horgan, Frady and Hearn have the gumption to act on the voters’ wishes?

When Commissioner Smith took the board position on the local developer bank and when he took the expensive gifts in exchange for the millions he gave in tax breaks for a local company, we didn’t hear as much as a whisper from commissioners Horgan, Frady and Hearn. They just sat there.

When Commissioner Smith kept voting on the mass transit buses for Fayette County, we still didn’t hear anything from commissioners Horgan, Frady and Hearn.

Why should we hang on to three commissioners who either support the West Fayetteville Bypass and the transit buses or are lacking the courage to do anything about it?

Has anyone heard a single comment on these big issues from commissioners Horgan, Frady or Hearn? I haven’t seen or read anything from them.

When the incumbent commissioner has a congressman, state elected officials, county elected officers and a bunch of former mayors endorsing him and he loses handily because of where he stands on certain big issues, I would hope that commissioners Horgan, Frady and Hearn are paying attention.

The excuse that the voters approved the SPLOST won’t fly anymore. The voters are paying attention. Will the commissioners listen to the voters?

No more government as usual. No more hear no evil, see no evil and speak no evil from commissioners Horgan, Frady and Hearn.

Lynn Tolbert

Fayetteville, Ga.

Doug
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Good point on the commissioners

Everyone at bridge last week was asking the same question as the letter writer. It's weird how they are so quiet. They are either as dumb as a box of rocks by not doing anything or just waiting for Jack Smith and Eric Maxwell to leave.

Although Horgan has other things on his plate too.

pips1414
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WFB Isn't The Only Game In Town

There seems to be some misconception that, since the WFB has been started, it can't be stopped. Here's my take. The East Bypass was stopped, and its money reprioritized to the West Bypass. Phase I of the WFB, almost complete, can stand alone as a short cut to Sandy Creek Rd. There is no recorded action by the county that the EFB money was formally approved to be shifted to the WFB. The money Smith and Maxwell were so anxious to reprioritize from the EFB to the WFB can now go from the WFB to other SPLOST projects the same way. Brown and McCarty took those sections of the county on or near the WFB by huge margins (see below)in the recent election, and won almost all of the other precincts. Public opinion is therefore PROVEN to be strongly against the WFB.

Phase 2 of the WFB is not in the public interest, because it goes nowhere. There are no traffic studies that say otherwise. The county doesn't have enough money to complete the WFB, and deosn't have enough money to cover acquisition and lawsuit costs. It would therefore be politically unwise for the commissioners to continue to pursue the project, unless they want to get into a taxpayer defended lawsuit, with their current term sure to be their last.

Here's how the total vote went down in the WFB precincts; subtract the Brown percentages from 100 for Jack Smith, and likewise, the McCarty percentages for Maxwell. Both candidates pledged to fight the WFB. Sorry the columns did not line up properly.

PRECINCT BROWN MCCARTY

HOPEFUL 69.4 68.2
SANDY CREEK 62.7 60.2
KENWOOD 55.1 61.4
OAK RIDGE 58.0 55.6
DOGWOOD 64.9 62.1
WILLOWPOND 60.4 57.7
WHITEWATER 52.5 56.7
STARRSMILL 52.0 54.7
HARP'S CROSSING 55.2 56.4

Brown and/or McCarty scored 55% or more in 17 other precincts.

NUK_1
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Here's my take on WFB

There were plenty of reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with WFB in regards to why two losers like Smith and Maxwell were defeated. It's all fine and dandy that this election seems to now be called some kind of referendum on the WFB when that pretty much ignores how Smith was elected in a fluke and Maxwell is not only ethically-challenged but also made a real azz out of himself publically when he jumped on ginga during a FC meeting with a remark that shows the lack of class that is Eric Maxwell.

While I disagree with ginga on a lot of stuff here, I admire her for not approaching the dais at that time and rolling Maxwell off a steep hill somewhere.

Doug
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No mandate Nuk?

You are a bit hypocritical Nuk. Before the election, you said Steve Brown and Allen McCarty were going to get hammered by the voters. Now you say there's no mandate on the West Fayetteville Bypass?

There's no doubt we have a mandate on the bypass with the poll results. I think your comment is just sour grapes.

ginga1414
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Robert W., I beg to differ

Phase I of the WFB has been built. Phase II is on hold due to the requirement of a Federal 404 Permit. The 404 Permit is required whenever a road will impact streams and wetlands. When the county applied for the 404 Permit, they did not include all of the required information to obtain that Permit. Therefore, the Corps of Engineers will not process the application. Also, the Corps has many many documents proving environmental destruction if Phase II (as it is currently projected) is constructed.

I am not at liberty to say which of our current commissioners are opposed to the WFB, but suffice it to say there are some. Your wording is "pandering to the masses in a shameless attempt to get reelected." In actuality, the situation is that these community minded men were bullied and coerced. In the future, they won't be bullied or coerced. Judging from the election returns, all Brown and McCarty are doing is delivering the will of the majority to Fayette County.

ginga1414
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Courthouse, The Jury Is Still Out

Taking into consideration the fact that the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers has not granted the county a 404 Permit, I would have to say that the Jury is still out regarding the construction of Phase II of the West Bypass. Courthouse, you have to remember that the county cannot proceed with building Phase II of the West Bypass if the Corps doesn't grant them a 404 Permit.

Personally speaking, Courthouse, I have not received any offers for my property from the county. According to county records, two homeowners on Janice Dr. have sold their property to the county. That information brings up another question. I was told by county officials that the county could not or would not purchase property until they had the 404 Permit in hand. My question is, what would happen to property already purchased for Phase II of the West Bypass if the 404 Permit is not granted? I asked county officials that same question and that was when they said that they would not or could not purchase property until they had the 404 Permit in hand.

I hope that I have cleared-up some of the issues for you.

Courthouserules
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ginga1414

What kind of ninnies would spend the money already spent for a road not knowing whether it could be completed or not?
That is why I have said "it will be built."

I don't know anything about why those who don't want it are still fighting it. Have final offers already been made for required rights of way?

Has the road line damaged some more than they think they are offered?
Was NO significant offers made on some properties where the owner still wants a settlement?

Of course developers already have plans of what to build where, about sewers required, water, etc. Even banks, I'm sure, are interested.

I'm afraid it will be built at the current offers.

MajorMike
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ginga1414

I must compliment you, Citizen Bob, and several others for taking the high road during this primary. You stuck with the facts and figures and at no point that I could discern, stoop to the raw animosity and outright hate that your oposition did. In doing so you shed light on some of the inner workings of Fayette County politics. Many of us who thought we had a good grasp of those workings were downright shocked when much of the information came to light. ________ Salute'

I predict that at least two more heads are going to roll over the next campaign cycle over this issue (and their other misdeeds).

ginga1414
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MajorMike, Vote of Confidence

Thank you so much. Your will never know how much your comments mean to me. My job gets pretty dismal sometimes. After I have said the same things over and over again, I wonder if I am getting my points across to anyone. Thank you, again! I know that Citizen Bob really appreciates your comments, also.

Spear Road Guy
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Morgan's Pandering To The Masses: Give Me A Break!!!

What a laugh! We don't want to let that unruly majority get out of hand. We'd be better off if we followed Robert W. Morgan's communist agenda and repressed the masses.

Besides we all know Horgan, Frady and Hearn know better than the majority of the voters who said stop the bypass. Yeah right!!!

The three commission monkeys ought to just go ahead and raise taxes too since the unruly majority stomped on their little wretched SPLOST. Don't let the voters get in the way boys.

Can't wait till 2012 to kick them out.

Robert W. Morgan
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Well Ms. Lynn, you have already heard from the other 3

They are 100% for the WFB and by the way it is being built right now. For any of the 3 to change their vote (or opinion) and form an alliance with Brown and the other new guy would be seen as pandering to the masses in a shameless attempt to get reelected. Frady doesn't care - in fact he may quit early rather that endure Brown's antics. Horgan might be able to say now that he has thought it over (and is sober), WFB is a bad idea. His reelection is very uncertain no matter what he does. Hearn, of course, is a big government, big spender kind of guy, so no hope there.

Live with it - meaning the WFB - it is part of our lives and tax bills thanks to our leadership. Maybe we should have more of us involved in the process by going to meetings, registering and voting and holding our leaders accountable - naw, just kidding. That would be tooo much trouble, Easier to sit back, do nothing, then complain.

ginga1414
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Combat, Good Luck To You

You just keep plugging away. The WFBC has been fighting the West Bypass, formally, for almost two years. Send an email to our new commissioners elect. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Keep on squeaking, Combat. Thank you very much for being another person in Fayette County who cares enough to stand up for what is right.

ginga1414
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Courthouserules

I see that you joined this forum a little more than a month ago. In one way or another, I have been fighting the construction of the West Fayetteville Bypass for 25 years. The amount of knowledge I could convey to you would require a book. Therefore, I will not go into specifics. I will only give generalities. For specifics, I would suggest that you dig through the last two years of archives in The Citizen.

From it's inception 25 years ago, the project has been riddled with problems. There had never been enough money to build the thing until the 2004 SPLOST passed by a 2% margin. That vote was extremely questionable. The West Bypass did not appear on the ballot. Exhibit B, which contained the West Bypass, did not appear on the ballot. People did not know what they were voting for.

The road crosses 8 creeks and wetlands, some of which supply water to the county. The county will have to pay at least $800,000 in mitigation dollars to cross those creeks and wetlands. However, that doesn't fix the environmental damage it will do to this area. The road does not adhere to the county land use plan. The road will supply 6 wealthy developers with free pavement and utilities. Our current Commission Chairman, sits on the Board of Directors of the Bank of Georgia (conflict of interest). The BOG's president has stated in this paper that the bank caters their loan program to builders and developers. Our current Commission Chairman stated in this newspaper that the bank's Board only had 2 developers. That wasn't true. According to the Ga. Secretary of State's office there are approximately 11 who are directly tied to development. Some of our current commissioners have insulted and belittled citizens when those citizens asked questions pertaining to the road and their property. Our current commissioners have hidden facts pertaining to the road. Our current commissioners cannot or will not provide detailed traffic studies to justify the construction of the road, nor can they justify spending approximately $50,000,000 on the road. The Atlanta Regional Commission stated that the road didn't score high enough and was too expensive. The majority of the taxpayers in this county don't want their money spent on foolishness. That concept was proven with the defeat of two commissioners this past July 20th.

I will stop here because, truly, this could go on forever. For further information, you will just have to dig through the archives.

Personally speaking, this issue isn't just about me and my property because the county doesn't have enough money to compensate me and my family for our property or for the mental manipulations we have been through at the hands of our current commissioners. I do not want to sell or give my property to the county. It is about all the other homeowners who will be impacted. It is about all the other taxpayers who will have payed hard earned money so developers and banks can profit. It is about the future of Fayette County. It is about the environmental destruction that will take place. It is about our county government's lies and deceit.

Courthouserules
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Ginga1414: Road

First, thank you for an answer to my questions.

I think you covered the major questing for me in your last paragraph.

Thousands, no hundreds of thousands, of landowners throughout the United States have attempted to stop nearly all road building near their property.
This must have started about the time the railroads criss-crossed the USA.
The notable thing about them was that the government awarded the right away to the railroads if they would build them (although most of the land did belong to the USA---don't ask me how they got it, I don't know.

The railroads got a lot of there money back for building the rails by awarding plots along the railroads for "railroad towns." Lot of crooked stuff there also.
However this country did make progress by the act. The auto and truck roads have also opened up this country for progress better than any country in the world!

I have never heard of one person whose land was effected by a road who didn't think someone else got more out of it than they...including developers.

The fact is if it were left up to landowners to decide how much they got for land, no roads would be built due to the cost.

It is Capitalism, good or bad. I wouldn't want to be a developer for that reason.

As to environmental destruction, the oil companies, coal-fired factories, mountain-top mining, etc., have done far more damage than a bridge or some hardtop for roads!

Courthouserules
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ginga

How about telling me just what it is about this particular road that excites you so much?
Thee are hundreds of roads being built in GA right now!

What is "right" and "wrong" about this road? Personally?

CombatCorrespondent
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Doing Nothing ...

Robert W. Morgan wrote:
"Maybe we should have more of us involved in the process by going to meetings, registering and voting and holding our leaders accountable - naw, just kidding. That would be tooo much trouble, Easier to sit back, do nothing, then complain."

You are so very correct. And even when we do stand up and attend meetings and try to hold our leaders accountable, it is not easy. But as hard as it is, to me, it feels better to try and fail than to do nothing.

Here is a battle I have been fighting with the clowns at the Fayette County Recreation Board for the last couple of months over Kenwood Park. As we would say in the Marine Corps, it sometimes seems like you are "p*ss*ng in the wind". But I firmly believe if we keep applying pressure, things will get done:

http://www.kombatkamera.com/Journalism/Local-News

Click on Kenwood Park

Mike

me.and_the_sea
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Robert

"For any of the 3 to change their vote (or opinion) and form an alliance with Brown and the other new guy would be seen as pandering to the masses in a shameless attempt to get reelected"

I don't think that way. I think they are there to do what the majority want. In this election, the WFB and excess money spending..WAS..the issue. To ignore that would be nuts. It isn't "pandering" to listen to the wishes of the masses.

me.and_the_sea
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off the subject a little

Someone sent me this today. It is food for thought..a little off the subject, but at the same time, I don't think anyone would think these guys were pandering, just taking care of their own (us) first.

What did Presidents Hoover, Truman, and Eisenhower have in common?

Back during the great depression, Herbert Hoover

ordered the deportation of ALL illegal aliens in order to make jobs available to American citizens that desperately needed work.

Harry Truman

deported over two million illegal aliens after WWII to create jobs for returning veterans.

In 1954 Dwight Eisenhower

deported 13 million Mexicans. It was done so WWII and Korean veterans would have a better chance at jobs. It took two years, but they deported them!

Now if they could deport the illegal aliens back then, they could sure do it today.

Why you might ask can't they do this today? Actually the answer is quite simple. Hoover , Truman, and Eisenhower were men of honor, not untrustworthy politicians looking for votes!

Reminder: Don't forget to pay your taxes - 12 to 20 million illegal aliens – are depending on you!

Robert W. Morgan
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You skipped over FDR and his 700k Japanese-Americans

You know, the internment camps in CA and NV for the security of the country. He certainly was not pandering for votes, was he? He got elected President 4 times by simply doing the right thing and never once considered his political future.

The other guys you mentioned? Men of honor? Huh?

Davids mom
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INTERESTING READING ON FDR AND HEALTHCARE
Observerofu
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FDR and the Progressive movement

and I promise a chicken in every pot. Just make sure you vote for me and I will give you things. Progressives have been creating that entitlement class for years. Soon there will be 50%+ of "Americans" that have no Fed Tax liability. Then the true Socialist Utopia can begin. Shared misery.

http://www.americandaily.com/article/426

Observerofu
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FDR and Progressivism
Observerofu
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FDR and what was right?

Considering he tried for a 2nd Bill of Rights that granted a House, a Job, free Healthcare, price fixing and no competition in business. Yeah FDR was a great guy if you are a progressive.

me.and_the_sea
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yep

they did what they thought was right for the voters

me.and_the_sea
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In my eyes

when it comes to elected officals taking care of the voters/taxpayers wants and needs first, it isn't pandering, it is being a big enough person to do what is best for all before endulging their own ego.

pips1414
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IDK Is The Foolish One

There he goes again! IDK changes the subject in lieu of commenting on the issues at hand. The point is, Frady, Horgan and Hearn have now experienced the wrath of the public in seeing two of their piers ousted by going against and ignoring public opinion. They need to respond to the citizens who now are trying to get them to recognize that the public just plain doesn't want the WFB.

Unfortunately, the latter three are so far taking the same positions as Maxwell and Smith by not commenting. This proved fatal for Maxwell and Smith, and will open up the issue of non-response to the voters. The voters have proven that they won't give up on the Bypass, so Frady, Horgan and Hearn need to take that into consideration. It is only two years until the next election. Pressure on them will do nothing but increase until they make their views known. Thank you idk for your continuing interest, as it gets the issue of public opinion to more readers every time you do it.

ginga1414
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Leader Of The Pack

It is clear to see that Jack Smith has been and continues to be the alpha dog when it comes to our Board of Commissioners. Hopefully, when Jack has to relinquish his reign over Hearn, Frady, and Horgan, they will be free to use their own intelligence.

Jack Smith has and will continue to have a choke hold on the rest of the commission until Jan. 2011. Until that times arrives, it will be up to all Fayette County citizens to keep a close watch on what the commission does. We need to attend commission meetings and continue to post any and all information that comes out of the commission meetings in The Citizen.

When Jack and Eric are no longer in office, Hearn, Frady, and Horgan will have a chance to prove to the voters that they won't be permanently connected to Smith and Maxwell policies. They will be free to work for the people of this county. If their actions don't reflect the will of the people, they most certainly will be voted out.

ginga1414
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Save Fayette, 5 Commissioners

For almost two years, the WFBC has been requesting that our commissioners provide justification for building a $50,000,000 road through homeowner and developer property. Our commissioners, county engineer, and public works officials have not provided one scrap of justification for building the WFB. They haven't provided the required information to the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. Because they haven't provided the required information to the Corps, the county's 404 Permit Application is being held by the Corps. That has to tell us something.

The 2004 SPLOST Resolution included Exhibits A and B. Exhibit A was a 6 page document that listed 206 transportation projects. Exhibit B was the ENTIRE Transpportaion Plan for the county. I would truly like to know just how many of those several hundred transportation projects have been completed. Do you suppose people are going to complain about each project that will not be completed, and demand performance because they voted for it?

The county attorney and the county administrator ( who are at the "behest" of Chairman Smith and the commission, according to Chairman Smith) said that all the projects have to be completed and none can be "abandoned." I dare say that most employees who are at the "behest" of their boss wouldn't go against him, if they wanted to keep their jobs, especially considering the fact they don't have a job review. Do you realize that both the County Administrator and the County Attorney were brought in by Maxwell and Smith?

Jack Smith said at the Candidate Forum that he gives the county administrator an oral job review every time he does anything for the commission.

If the county administrator's statement was true in that all SPLOST projects have to be completed and none can be abandoned, how did they get away with abandoning the East Bypass? If that is true, how could Eric Maxwell state at one of the commission meetings that he wasn't willing to put one more cent into the East Bypass?

Something is dead up the creek, Save.

If the county is going to take almost half of my twenty acres, I think I have a right to be told all the particulars, whys and wherefores. When I asked Eric Maxwell what was going to happen about the fact that the road was going to separate my home from my well, I thought I had a right to ask that question and a right to receive a sensible answer. Although, I didn't receive a sensible answer, I still thought I had a right to receive sensible answer.

When I sent Jack Smith an email concerning the WFB, I felt that I had a right to receive an answer to my question. However, Mr. Smith told me that if I wanted to know what was going on in the county that I should attend the commission meetings. I had attended commission meetings.

I think every other homeowner has a right to be told the complete justification for spending $50,000,000 in our tax money on a road that the State and Federal Government has said is a bad idea and that they won't put any money into the project.

Something is dead up the creek, Save.

If the current commissioners can't or won't answer questions posed to them, then maybe we can receive sensible answers from Hearn, Frady, Horgan, Brown and McCarty. I don't plan on discontinuing my efforts to receive sensible answers.

ginga1414
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Save, Requested Documentation

A request was made to the ARC, under the Ga. Open Records Act, for all documentation pertaining to the East and West Fayetteville Bypass. The document is lengthy and out of respect for the Citizen, I will tell you that you might do a search of the ARC and find it under: Jurisdictional Briefings, Draft 2030 RTP and FY 2005-2010 TIP Project Lists, Jurisdiction: Fayette, Date: April 15, 2004, Time: 9:00 a.m., Location: ARC Harry West Conference Room.

Pertinent information is as follows:

1. What are this jurisdiction's top five non-freeway roadway project priorities?

1. SR 74 widening (FA-009B1/c)
2. SR 54 widening (CL-041)
3. East Fayetteville Bypass (FA 236)
4. SR 92 widening (FA 003)
5. SR 85 widening (FA 005/006)

3. For any high priority non-freeway roadway projects which were not funded in the TIP, explain why. For example, possible explanations could include: the project was not formally submitted, did not score well in the evaluation process, or could not be funded due to its cots or other regional equity issues.

1. East Bypass: Cost too much ($26 million). Adjusted to $7 million.
2. West Bypass: Did not score high enough/too expensive
3. SR 92 widening: Fayette/GDOT never formally submitted
4. SR 85 widening: Fayette/GDOT never formally submitted
5. Sandy Creek Rd. Extension: Low Evaluation Score

Hopefully, that will be enough information for you find that document. It is my understanding that the ARC is the agency that disburses State and Federal funds for the metro region.

Save Fayette
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Bad idea?

ginga, sometimes I agree with you. Can you please show me the documents that the State and Federal Government have said it is a bad idea for the WFB. I have not seen that one yet??
And i have told you before I think it was bad, the comment that Commissioner Maxwell made to you about the well.

Save Fayette
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You are wrong about the other three commissioners

Ginga, did you ever think that the other three commissioners are in favor of the by pass. As far as I can see they have all voted 5-0 in favor of all aspects of the WFB. You know it only takes 3 votes to make it happen. I have not heard any of the other three speak against the WFB. Horgan printed a time line from back in the 80’s in how the WFB has come to fruition. And if the three of them are in favor of the WFB, Brown and McCarthy can not do a thing about it. Just as the county attorney has given Smith and Maxwell the laws about what can be done with the SPLOST money he sure has given it to the other three.
I think you are wrong in that the other commissioners do work for the citizens of Fayette County. And I also think they have a duty to up hold what the voters of the county voted on back in 2004 SPLOST. Back then information was not given out, and open government was not as open as it is today, so it was up to the voters at that time to have done their own homework regarding a item that they where voting on. Maybe this paper should have given more information about what was in the SPLOST. May be the voters at that time where in favor of all the items that where in the SPLOST, and wanted a bypass. We will never know. But, being a voter and if I voted for something, and that something like the SPLOST won I expect my government to up hold it.
For example; what if we the citizens voted on having a new 911 communication systems put in place, and hypothetically it cost 50million to build it. And then a new set of commissioners where voted in, and they wanted that money to go to a new jail or courthouse. Well as a voter I would be extremely mad and would want what I voted in (the 911 center) to be built. You can not change what was voted for by citizens in the past, its not right.

Spear Road Guy
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I agree with Johenry

The three commission monkeys were delighted to watch Smith violate the standards of ethics and didn't do boo about it.

I agree. Let's just vote them all out.

Save Fayette's BS about you can't change what the citizens voted for is pitiful. The three commission monkeys followed Jack Smith and Eric Maxwell in changing from the East bypass to the West bypass. Didn't see Save Fayette wetting his pants over that???

johenry
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Horgan, Frady and Hearn

Don't hold your breath waiting for the three stooges to do anything for the people. We'll just have to vote them out like Smith and Maxwell.

The point you make about them just watching Jack Smith do his dirty deeds and not say a thing, says it all.

2012 is going to be a big election. We'll be booting: T. Smith, Smola, Frady, Horgan and Hearn.

grassroots
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Breaking News; Hearn Admits There Was No Official Traffic Study

This is a major conflict as WFB cannot move forward without one legally. See
http://www.splostpoll.com/ He's no longer "unwavering".

ginga1414
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.

.

idk_revisited
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More "award-winning" journalism...

...from the guy who makes up his own awards. I still haven't heard Steve Brown comment that he signed your "Thomas Paine Service Award" - did he really sign it? And when he came over to your house, did he hear the airplanes too?

Legal means allowed by law. What law, specifically, requires a traffic study to make a road? Please answer.

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