UPDATED: Tempers flare as Frady tables tax shift plan

UPDATED: Tempers flare as Frady tables tax shift plan

Chairman claims fellow commissioner failed to submit documents per county policy

UPDATED for print version — When Fayette County Commissioner Steve Brown came to Thursday night’s commission meeting, he had planned to ask his fellow commissioners to pursue a referendum that would allow transportation sales tax dollars to be shifted towards either paying off debt or helping the county’s general fund.

Instead, Brown was told his presentation would have to wait two weeks, after Commission Chairman Herb Frady objected to Brown providing a written document about the presentation minutes before, instead of a two weeks-in-advance requirement under county policy.

“I haven’t seen this before, and I don’t know what’s in this, and we don’t really allow that to happen,” Frady said, adding that the matter would be tabled until the commission’s next meeting “so we’ll all have a chance to look at it.”

A frustrated Brown strongly disagreed, contending the papers he provided commissioners were merely “notes” from a PowerPoint presentation he was to make. Brown said he was providing the notes so the commissioners could follow along with the presentation.

A motion that would have allowed Brown to give the presentation failed 3-2, as commissioners Robert Horgan and Lee Hearn voted against along with Chairman Frady. Only commissioner Allen McCarty voted with Brown to allow the presentation to take place.

Both Horgan and Hearn agreed with Frady’s contention, saying they wanted more time to look over Brown’s proposal.

At one point, the crowd of more than 100 became so unruly that Frady threatened to clear the room.

After Frady continued with the rest of the agenda, Brown stood up and began to pack up his laptop and other items as if he was leaving the meeting early. And in a matter of minutes, he took issue with a question that fellow Commissioner Hearn was trying to ask of county staff about House Bill 240, the very topic of which Brown had been prevented from speaking.

The difference is that Hearn was asking the question during the “commissioners reports” section of the agenda, and there is no policy requiring that he provide information in writing in advance.

That didn’t stop Brown from protesting, though.

“If he’s going to ask the question, then I have not been given a copy of that question prior to him asking it,” Brown said in a loud voice as many in the crowd applauded their support. “So I would like to table Mr. Hearn’s commissioner’s report please. According to the rules we were just provided.”

Hearn explained he wanted Bennett to provide the commission information about what it can and can’t do under the legislation.

That sent Brown over the edge.

“Oh, wait a minute now, we’re going to have another discussion? I cannot discuss House Bill 240 and you’re going to have a discussion on HB 240?”

Frady banged his gavel loudly several times in an attempt to restore order.

“Order, Mr. Brown, or you’ll have to leave the room,” Frady said.

“I’ll do it right now, thank you!” Brown replied.

“Good,” Frady interrupted.

“Because that is absolutely freaking ridiculous,” Brown continued. “You’re going to have him do a lecture on House Bill 240 and I can’t speak.”

As Brown picked up his things and began to walk off, Frady asked the county marshal to escort him out.

As Brown left through a side door, he muted his voice significantly and said: “That is a joke.”

With Brown’s exit, a disgusted group of more than 100 citizens left the meeting in protest as well.

“See you in two weeks!” shouted one member of the crowd.

“It’s a dictatorship,” hollered another.

The commission waited several minutes for the room to clear before resuming the final few minutes of the meeting.

Days after the meeting, Brown posted on TheCitizen.com that he submitted the agenda item “with an appropriate explanation of my item.”

Furthermore, Brown contended, his “intentions” regarding the budget were passed along to all commissioners in a May 24 memo from County Manager Jack Krakeel.

“My presentation consisted of newspaper headlines, budget information already presented multiple times, some relevant revenue points and a motion to create a committee that included all Constitutional Officers (including Chairman Frady) to address the HB 240 issue,” Brown said.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

EARLIER ONLINE VERSION

After his presentation to his fellow county commissioners was postponed two weeks, an indignant Steve Brown walked out of Thursday night’s commission meeting.

A largely disgusted audience, which became unruly to the point that Chairman Herb Frady threatened to clear the room, left in solidarity with Brown.

It was a theatrical ending to what will surely be remembered as one of the ugliest exchanges in recent Fayette political history.

The fracas began as the commission was to hear Brown extol the virtues of shifting the county’s transportation sales tax funds away from road projects toward the county’s general fund via a public referendum allowed by a new state law.

Before Brown could begin, Commission Chairman Herb Frady announced that since Brown had failed to provide his supporting written documentation two weeks in advance as required by county policy, the matter would be tabled until the next meeting.

“No sir,” Brown exclaimed in reply.

Brown then explained that he had provided the written material to his fellow commissioners as a courtesy, and he insisted that he followed county policy on putting the matter on the agenda.

Frady insisted that Brown was wrong, and noted that he had not had time to read the 20-page document.

“You did not follow procedure and we are not going to hear this tonight,” Frady said.

“This is just not right,” Brown retorted.

Moments later, Brown said: “I’ve never seen anything like this.”

“I haven’t either,” Frady replied.

Soon after, Brown authored a motion to override the tabling and authorize his presentation, but it failed 3-2, with commissioners Robert Horgan, Lee Hearn and Frady voting against.

In reply, Brown gasped in exasperation and asked Frady to cite the policy. Frady called upon county staff to read it.

The policy states that for agenda items, commissioners are required to submit documentation pertinent to the request when it is placed on the agenda two weeks in advance. Instead, Brown only shared the information minutes before the meeting, according to Frady, Horgan and Hearn.

The information shared by Brown was not a part of the county commission’s “meeting packet” which is published on its website several days prior to the commission meetings.

County Attorney Scott Bennett said under the policy, it was up to the commission to determine if the information Brown submitted “was pertinent to the request” and when it was received.

After Brown’s motion failed and the meeting moved on, Brown belligerently interrupted Hearn as Hearn attempted to ask a question of county staff during the commissioners reports section of the agenda.

Brown argued that Hearn should not be allowed to speak because Hearn didn’t provide his comments ahead of time.

It devolved to the point where Frady threatened to have Brown escorted away by a county marshal, and Brown replied that he was leaving on his own accord. He left through a side door.

Nearly the entire audience left in unison with Brown, and Frady waited for them to leave so the meeting could continue.

After the meeting, Frady said he had no problem with Brown making his presentation at the next meeting. Hearn concurred, saying he thought it would be fair for the entire commission to have Brown’s information in advance so it can be rebutted if necessary.

Doug
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You know they are going to sidestep the HB 240 thing

The three amigos are hooked into the crooked West Fayetteville Bypass and that road trumps everything else (including the financial management of the county).

Frady and Hearn were doing the Mississippi two step at the last meeting to avoid having Brown's HB 240 proposal go public. They would rather get their developer road than save the taxpayers.

A lot of us left the miserable state of the county government at Jack Smith and Eric Maxwell's feet but Frady, Hearn and Horgan are proving they are just as rotten.

ginga1414
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RWM, suggar, spear, et al

We need to bombard the commissioners with emails starting now.

The commissioners need to table the decision on our budget until a committee can be formed to assess the utilization of HB-240.

Without an unbiased committee and public hearing on the committee's findings, they will have again betrayed the public trust not to mention denied the right to transparency in our government.

If a decision on the current budget is finalized before Commissioner Brown is allowed to present his proposal, the voters will take it as just another preconceived move by Frady, Horgan, and Hearn to manipulate the lives of all Fayette citizens.

The voters were not adequately informed of the projects that were included on the 2004 SPLOST Referendum. The previous commission used that fact to their advantage. That commission bullied and intimidated any citizen who dared to speak in opposition to any of the 2004 SPLOST projects.

Our State Legislature and Governor Deal felt that HB-240 would provide a much needed process for County governments and citizens to re-evaluate local needs due to a depressed economy.

If they do not allow a public scrutiny of the county's financial situation and HB-240, the citizens of Fayette County will be left out of the decision making process that governs our lives, once again.

The Commissioners' e-mail addresses are:
herbf@fayettecountyga.gov
rhorgan@fayettecountyga.gov
lhearn@fayettecountyga.gov
Allen.McCarty@fayettecountyga.gov
CommissionerBrown@fayettecountyga.gov

Hopefully, every Fayette citizen will attend Thursday's Commission Meeting at 7:00 P.M.

Hopefully, every Fayette citizen will arrive early in order to sign the petition requesting Fayette County Commissioners to let the citizens vote on the use of our SPLOST funds.

NUK_1
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Voters WERE informed
ginga1414 wrote:

The voters were not adequately informed of the projects that were included on the 2004 SPLOST Referendum. The previous commission used that fact to their advantage. That commission bullied and intimidated any citizen who dared to speak in opposition to any of the 2004 SPLOST projects.

Let's not get into revisionist history here. The SPLOST item on the ballot was very simple back then: YES/NO on paying extra sales tax to finance road and transportation projects. None were individually specified, which is normal. They don't have to be. If voters don't care or want their taxes raised, that's their choice and that's what they decided.

The voters back then voted YES, I WANT TO GIVE FC A BLANK CHECK TO SPEND HOWEVER THEY FEEL ON ROAD AND TRANSPORTATION PROJECTS IN THE FUTURE.
Regrets now might make people the next time think about it more or show up to vote against it, but this whole fiasco is due 100% to FC voters approving the T-SPLOST back then and giving the county a blank check.

BHH
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Yes it was all published

in the 2003 document "Fayette County Transportation Plan".

Google "TRANSPORTATION ELEMENT".

suggarfoot
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a quite disturbing email about hiring practices

of the Fayette county commisioners and government.

In reading this...it would seem that not only our taxes are a grab bag to help relatives and developers, our county paid jobs are going out to friends and family without ever being posted!

below are parts of the email.

"This continuous theme of not advertising openings, not conducting interviews with pertinent questions, not evaluating past
experience and not looking at ethical issues is a
disservice to the citizens of Fayette County.

Even worse is when we get into the good old boy appoints like appointing relatives to critical positions.

Throw in not bidding service contracts to the
county, voting on items that never appear on an
agenda and shutting down opposition speech and the
three-member majority of our Board of Commissioners is leaving a dishonorable legacy.
.......... I am embarrassed
to watch the Board forsake its citizens in this
manner."

...... more below...........

As you know, at your May 4th Workshop, you all had
a discussion about whether or not to adopt a formal policy for the
appointment of folks to the boards, commissions, committees, and
authorities to which you must make appointments. The consensus of the Board was NOT to move forward with such a policy......"

............................

(can you guess which 3 members voted to keep this in place?)

.................

When I read this I wanted to cry out of dispare. We pay some of the highest taxes and this is the thanks we get from our commisoners. We have high unemployement, yet county jobs, paid for with our taxes, never see the light of day. They go to friends and family.

________________________________________________

Spear Road Guy
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Suggarfoot

Frady, Horgan and Hearn are nothing but good old boy thieves who rob us of a decent government!!!

You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks highly of those fools.

suggarfoot
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!!DEAD ON ARRIVAL!! HR240

It is my understanding that Hearn, Horgan, and Frady are putting the vote on the budget at THE BEGINNING OF THE MEETING THURSAY NIGHT! Thereby making Steve Brown's presentation..AFTER THE FACT!

Everyone please attend the meeting and get up and ask that they let Steve Brown's presentation go BEFORE the vote on the budget.

These guys are really 'fixing' the meetings. I wonder how Horgan is going to feel in a year when he has no Commissioners salary to fall back on and his wonderful little bypass has taken all the traffic off the road in front of his business.

High powered players have stroked his ego to the point he can't see the reality of his actions.

Robert W. Morgan
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Horgan begins rehab Thursday night - updated

or he could if he was serious about rehabbing his political image. How, you ask?
Well, he could do what any logical person would do under the circumstances. He could vote against whatever Frady and Hearn are proposing at the beginning of the meeting and insist that they hear Brown's presentation before any vote is taken on the budget.

That way business is conducted without secret deals and hidden agendas and Horgan can get the credit for all of it. Might even be a good first step to getting reelected and becoming commission chair - well probably not. But at least he won't go down in history as a developer's tool and a boycotted business owner. Believe me, Brown will have plenty to say in the future about Frady and Hearn after they are gone. Horgan has a choice. He can either be lumped together with them forever OR he can be the one who brought some honestly and clarity to the process.

The choice is yours Mr. Horgan. Think it through. Remember, this is only about allowing the voters of Fayette County to vote on whether or not to use the sales taxes they have been paying and will be paying for essential expenses or a frivolous and unneeded road project that was hatched 6 or 7 years ago in an entirely different economic enviornment.

Updated 4:30: ginga and others, you will be happy to know I activated an e-mail and calling blitz to Mr. Horgan thru his Rotary Club since I firmly believe Horgan is the only one of the 3 that can be swayed into responsible behavior. That will be 120 people he sees every week trying to reach out to him.

suggarfoot
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Thank you Robert

I think you are right

mudcat
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He's always right, sugar.

Never in doubt.

grassroots
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Horgan Conflicting Head Scratcher

His voting record was probably to appease Jack Smith to stay on. Now what's the deal? What happened to his law suit against the county commissioners? Your idea is worth a try.

BHH
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"TRANSPORTATION ELEMENT"

I just ran across this study from 2003 that recommends the WFB and another road through or adjacent to Hearn's families' property that would connect the hospital to Tyrone Rd. running parallel to hwy 54.

It can be found in a search for a PDF labeled "TRANSPORTATION ELEMENT".

If anyone is interested.

grassroots
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This is worth a look

Who did this study? We would be interested.
Please leave a link under comment at www.splostopinion.com

suggarfoot
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anyone wanting their taxes repurposed to pay bills

Anyone that wants the SPLOST money repurposed to pay down current debt and other current bills and is afraid our taxes are going to go higher otherwise, might want to send an email to the board of Commisioners

to: herbf@fayettecountyga.gov, rhorgan@fayettecountyga.gov, lhearn@fayettecountyga.gov, lhearn@fayettecountyga.gov, Allen.McCarty@fayettecountyga.gov, CommissionerBrown@fayettecountyga.gov

you can say something like...

Please, create a Resolution calling for a Referendum that will allow Fayette County Voters to vote on whether or not Fayette County’s 2004 SPLOST Projects have become impracticable in this economy and could serve us better being used to pay down our debt and other things more urgent. I'm deeply concerned if we continue with the bypasses, my taxes will increase and county employees could lose their jobs. It is our money! We should have a voice in how our money is spent.”

sign you name and add

http://www.ajc.com/news/dekalb/dekalb-calls-for-4-976790.html
.
.

suggarfoot
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x

x

ginga1414
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Bad, It's Public Record

Bad, it is a matter of public record that Steve Brown requested that his item be placed on the Agenda more than two weeks in advance.

His item was published on the Agenda before anyone entered the Commission Meeting Room on June 9th. When Steve provided visual aids as a courtesy to the Commissioners, Frady jumped on that opportunity.

Therefore, it is a fact that Steve Brown does know the rules of having an item placed on the Agenda.

At the beginning of Steve Brown's term (Jan. 2011) as County Commissioner, he diligently fought to make sure no items just appeared out of nowhere during the commission meetings because that had been the general practice during Jack Smith's reign. As an example, one of the last things Jack Smith did before leaving office was to grant large pay raises to county employees. THAT ITEM DID NOT APPEAR ON THE AGENDA. THEREFORE, THE PUBLIC HAD NO VOICE IN THAT DECISION. Just as it is now, our voices wouldn't have mattered anyway.

I do feel, however, that we have made considerable progress in Fayette County. Whereas we had five tyrants before, we now have three tyrants and two fighting for the people's rights.

bad_ptc
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ginga1414, what part of

"Brown providing a written document about the presentation minutes before, instead of a two weeks-in-advance requirement under county policy."

don't you understand?

ginga1414
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Bad, What Part of Public Record and Published Agenda

don't you understand?

If he had not provided what was required when it was required, his item would never have appeared on the published (printed) Agenda before the commission meeting of June 9th.

That Agenda was printed (published) before any member of the commission or the audience walked into the meeting room.

That printed Agenda with Steve Brown's item was placed on the table for folks to take before the doors were opened.

His item had been approved before the meeting! The thing that provided Frady with ammunition to kill Steve's item was his visual aid. Steve provided a visual aid as a courtesy to the other four commissioners. THAT VISUAL AID ABSOLUTELY DID NOT GO BEYOND THE SCOPE OF WHAT HAD BEEN APPROVED!

Frady, Horgan, Hearn, McCarty, Krakeel, Bennett, the entire staff, and the entire audience knew what Brown's presentation would cover before the meeting. Remember, it had been approved before the meeting, otherwise it would not have appeared on the Agenda. It had been published in the newspapers. It had been discussed and written out for Krakeel, Frady, Horgan, Hearn, McCarty, Bennett, and the entire staff.

When Frady called for the approval of the Agenda, it could have been stopped then. However, Frady wanted to get the most mileage possible out of his personal agenda (more bang for the buck as Jack Smith would say).

Brown's item was supposed to have been a presentation, not a discussion as Hearn tried to imply.

When Frady was presented with a visual aid, he saw his chance to quash Steve Brown and the audience. If you were there, you would have seen the total looks of dismay on the faces of Bennett and Krakeel when Frady asked them to produce the rules. You would have seen Bennett struggle to find the words to explain things to Frady's satisfaction.

Frady and Hearn wanted to delay the process. Their reasoning for that could be any number of things or all of those collectively.

I am not nearly as stupid as you would like to think I am or maybe I should say as stupid you would want me to think.

It looks like Bad likes to play games as much as Frady and Hearn. Bad, bad!

suggarfoot
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I'm afraid it is over

I feel that by not letting Steve speak, they will use that as the excuse, trying to shift the blame in their little shell game. Now you see it now you don't.

They think the public is too stupid to know the difference.

The fact that it WAS on the agenda and the info given to them in advance is UNDENIABLE.

The fact is that night,they were given nothing more than a box car letter size outline so Frady could follow along and not get lost. just a courtesy, you can see 1 or 2 lines only on each page Frady is waiving around.

It was NOT info they had never seen before. But used as an excuse not to let Steve Brown speak. They now intend to say there is no time left to investigate it, therefore it can't be on the ballot.

I would bet any takers that is how they intend to handle it. Mark my words.

They are not nearly as slick as they 'think' they are. People see right through their sanctimonious BS.

Steve Brown
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Bad_ptc

You are missing the point, bad_ptc. The "rules" change with each meeting. The county attorney literally said whatever conclusion the three-member majority reaches on what is necessary for an agenda item is the new requirement.

The vote was to table my agenda item based upon whatever criteria they desired.

I submitted within the required time frame and gave a description with the submitted item. The county administrator also submitted a memorandum regarding the points I wanted to address at the meeting.

The "presentation" was nothing more than newspaper headlines about the economy, budget data presented many times over and a written motion I created.

The new precedent is the majority can quash any item at any time under any determination made on the spot. So much for democracy in Fayette County.

bad_ptc
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Is Steve Brown a mental cripple?

If Steve Brown got spanked for not submitting his SB 240 proposal two weeks in advance, as per Chairman Frady, and he has accused the Fayette County Commission of adding and voting on issues at the last minute without public knowledge, why hasn’t he asked for a recall on those votes?

Has our savior Steve not done his homework? Has savior Steve, after two weeks, not been able to show definitively that the Fayette County Commissioners have violated that same rule, on several occasions, that he decided it was better to take his ball and go home?

There a few thoughts that I ponder because of this.
1. Does Steve Brown NOT know the rules by which the Fayette County Commission is governed?
2. Does Steve Brown NOT know how to exact revenge?

If the answer to either of those questions is no, then Steve Brown is NOT representing me as a citizen of Fayette County.

Steve, if you’re going to get spanked for both not following and not knowing the rules shame on you.

If you want to impress me, kill them at their own game.

Steve, you and I both know the only way to beat them is to follow the rules and hammer them on the facts. If you can’t or won’t do those two things then resign.

Robert W. Morgan
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No bad, he's not a metal cripple, he's actually fairly smart

His shortcoming is that it all has to be about him. Doesn't matter if he's right (as he certainly is about this issue) or wrong - he has to make it about himself. Not unusual for a small-time politician. Sure he should use their own rules to thwart them and he will - as soon as he figures out how to make a big deal out of it. Probably the turnout at the next meeting will be huge and that will spur him on to greatness.

And I'll say it again just to be sure. Steve Brown is 100% right about this issue and Frady and cohorts are involved in some kind of game - one that probably has to do with delaying long enough to keep the issue off the ballot this fall. I have always resisted the idea that developers have control of our county commissioners, but someone is clearly pulling their strings on this one and I don't think it is the DOT.

suggarfoot
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obviously someone else comes before taxpayers

And I'll say it again just to be sure. Steve Brown is 100% right about this issue and Frady and cohorts are involved in some kind of game - one that probably has to do with delaying long enough to keep the issue off the ballot this fall. I have always resisted the idea that developers have control of our county commissioners, but someone is clearly pulling their strings on this one and I don't think it is the DOT."

You are right and it is about to get ugly. They didn't have the sense to even given the appearance of being about the citizen's needs last week.

there is no doubt that will do their best from voting on it, and if push comes to shove and they HAVE to vote. They will vote against it. They have really shown their spots. I bet sanctimonious Hearn has few friends at church.

suggarfoot
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anyone wanting their taxes repurposed to pay bills

Anyone that wants the SPLOST money repurposed to pay down current debt and other current bills and is afraid our taxes are going to go higher otherwise, might want to send an email to the board of Commisioners

to: herbf@fayettecountyga.gov, rhorgan@fayettecountyga.gov, lhearn@fayettecountyga.gov, lhearn@fayettecountyga.gov, Allen.McCarty@fayettecountyga.gov, CommissionerBrown@fayettecountyga.gov

you can say something like...

Please, create a Resolution calling for a Referendum that will allow Fayette County Voters to vote on whether or not Fayette County’s 2004 SPLOST Projects have become impracticable in this economy and could serve us better being used to pay down our debt and other things more urgent. I'm deeply concerned if we continue with the bypasses, my taxes will increase and county employees could lose their jobs. It is our money! We should have a voice in how our money is spent.”

sign you name and add

http://www.ajc.com/news/dekalb/dekalb-calls-for-4-976790.html
.

MYTMITE
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Great Sugar, thanks. I will also be adding that I am concerned

about an erosion of the quality of services that might ensue. Thanks again for all the information.

ginga1414
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Sign Petition Asking For HB-240 Resolution

Folks can meet at the Gazebo at 6:00 P.M. on Thursday, June 23rd outside Commission Meeting Room to sign a petition asking for a Resolution and Referendum as authorized by HB-240. Something else folks can do is attend the Commission Meeting on June 23rd at 7:00 P.M.

There were 200 people at the last commission meeting. We need twice that many on June 23rd.

The Commission Meeting on June 23rd will provide an opportunity for everyone to tell our commissioners, in person, that we want to decide what is done with our tax money.

suggarfoot
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I agree Nuk

They have the controling vote. They are going to bad mouth the idea and vote it down no matter what. They could have/should have let Brown speak.

There is nothing wrong with the county lawyer telling the pros and cons (if there are any other than not building their precious bypass) as long as he is fair and impartial. The way they scrambled to try to come to Frady's aid was not reassuring.

But the whole point is, very PRO bypass HEARN, was trying to call the lawyer up to tell the pitfalls. If the lawyer was going to say anything good about it, he would be shown the door with Brown.

They are sneaky and sleazy to have handled it in this way. They came prepaired, they brought a gun (the lawyer) to a knife fight. Even though Frady wouldn't let Brown speak, Hearn wasn't going to lay down his weapon.
That was really cheap for such a "God fearing man" has be would have everyone believe.

suggarfoot
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this could be our County and OUR taxes if we don't use SPLOST

to pay down our county expenses as opposed to builing the bypass to no where.

http://www.ajc.com/news/dekalb/dekalb-calls-for-4-976790.html

suggarfoot
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UGLY TRUTH ABOUT THE COMMISIONERS MEETING

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiGDkloCa9Y

The MEAT OF THE DEAL has been OVERLOOKED!

Not only do I think the commissioners LYING that they hadn't gotten info from Steve Brown as to what he was going to say...HEARN...as good as admits that NOT ONLY had they gotten the info...they had gotten together PRIVATELY with lawyer Bennett (at the taxpayers expense of 150.00- 350.00 an hour) earlier and dissected it to ribbons!

After they refused to let Commissioner Brown speak..Hearn can clearly be heard asking to have county tax payed lawyer Bennett address everyone on what CAN'T be done with the money!

These guys lied and Hearn blundered and told on himself and the others!

After silencing Brown, Commissioner Hearn and lawyer Bennett, without being on the agenda, were going to conduct their own little public speech on the pitfalls of diverting taxpayer's money to paying down our debt rather than build a bypass that could possibly benefit monetarily members of Hearn's Mother's family! No matter how much it will help the taxpayers with a break on their taxes...I think they are going to have the lawyer pronouce it illegal, vote it as illegal, and case closed!

This was going to happen except Brown called their hand on it and said Hearn and the lawyer Bennett weren't own the agenda.

Listen to the tape again. Your proof is right there!

Where oh where is McNally and Fox?

Doug
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Nuk_1 claims are unfounded

How fantastically ridiculous to throw Steve Brown in the fire for the actions of a bunch of fools. There's no doubt that certain people hate Brown for taking stands for the average Joe.

People like Nuk_1 try to marginalize people in an attempt to make people on the obvious wrong side of the issue look better.

Thank God there are people like Brown who are willing to fight for us.

NUK_1
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Pay some attention, Doug

I get the distinct feeling you don't read much of what gets posted here and have zero idea what my position is since I happen to agree with most of Brown's proposal now that he's dropped the ridiculous "build the EBP" idea.

I've said over and over here that Frady, Hearn and Lester are The Three Stooges. I don't think I could be any clearer on the fact that NEITHER BYPASS is needed and the SPLOST money can be utilized in much better ways or the fact that none of those bozos deserve reelection(if they even decide to run again).

NUK_1
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sugar: Think you are jumping to wrong conclusions here

First, it's a GOOD idea to have the county attorney tell the commissioners and attendees what can or cannot be done with the SPLOST per HB-240. That's why you have county and city attorneys. You're also assuming a lot that attorney and Hearn were going to suddenly start going off against paying down debt when there's no evidence at all of that. There's no reason they wouldn't have done that after Brown and most people left if that was their intention.

secondly, if the 3 Stooges met with the lawyer privately before hand at the same time, that's a violation of the Open Meetings Act. Not since Smith and Maxwell were running the show has that happened, and it would also mean the county attorney doesn't know the Open Meetings Act(possible as many are pretty ignorant in that area even though it's one of the simplest pieces of legislation out there).

Also, the county attorney didn't know that Frady was going to ask him to read the county policy on agenda items and blah blah, that came from the county manager. don't think the county attorney saw this one coming at all.

Now, if you were to say that the 3 all met with Kraakel(totally UNQUALIFIED for the job but another topic another time), that would also be a violation of the Open Meetings Act and really, I think Brown would already know and already filed a complaint if either of these scenarios were even close to being true.

suggarfoot
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Nuk they revised the story about Commisioners meeting

"A motion that would have allowed Brown to give the presentation failed 3-2, as commissioners Robert Horgan and Lee Hearn voted against along with Chairman Frady......

Both Horgan and Hearn agreed with Frady’s contention, saying they wanted more time to look over Brown’s proposal................... Brown... began to pack up ... as if he was leaving the meeting early. And in a matter of minutes, he took issue with a question that fellow COMMISSIONER HEARN WAS TRYING TO ASK OF COUNTY STAFF ABOUT HOUSE BILL 240, THE VERY TOPIC OF WHICH BROWN HAD BEEN PREVENTED FROM SPEAKING!............ Hearn was asking the question during the “commissioners reports” section of the agenda, and there is no policy requiring that he provide information in writing in advance.

That didn’t stop Brown from protesting, though.

“If he’s going to ask the question, then I have not been given a copy of that question prior to him asking it,” Brown said in a loud voice as many in the crowd applauded their support. “So I would like to table Mr. Hearn’s commissioner’s report please. According to the rules we were just provided.”

HEARN EXPLAINED HE WANTED BENNETT TO PROVIDE THE COMMISSION INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT IT CAN AND CAN'T DO UNDER THE LEGISLATION.

“Oh, wait a minute now, we’re going to have another discussion? I cannot discuss House Bill 240 and you’re going to have a discussion on HB 240?”

Frady banged his gavel loudly several times in an attempt to restore order.

“Order, Mr. Brown, or you’ll have to leave the room,” Frady said.

“I’ll do it right now, thank you!” Brown replied.

“Good,” Frady interrupted.

“Because that is absolutely freaking ridiculous,” Brown continued. “You’re going to have him do a lecture on House Bill 240 and I can’t speak.”

............... Frady asked the county marshal to escort him out."

This is really unfair and they were stacking the deck against Brown but Hearn was going to get his two cents in about the evils of taking the money for the bypass and using it where it would do more good!

NUK_1
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sugar: yep, that's what happened

I still don't understand what the big deal is about asking the county attorney to address what can or cannot be done with the money under HB-240, regardless of whether Brown was allowed to present or not. That's needed, actually.

If the stooges had thought this one through, they would have simply allowed Brown to do his presentation and then could have tabled any motion to vote on it so it could be reviewed/researched later. Simple enough and avoids this theater. Brown leaving in a hissy fit doesn't help either.

suggarfoot
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Commisoner's meeting and what Hearn said

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiGDkloCa9Y

Go to the tape, move over to 1758 and start there. You will hear Hearn distinctly say...that he wants the attorney to speak about HB-240. After you wrote your response, I not only went back and listened again, but called Steve Brown as the voice quality is bad.

Not only did he agree with me that was what came out of Hearn's mouth. He stated that was when he got up to leave.

There is nothing wrong with a lawyer saying correctly what can and can't be done. BUT, I tend to think what the lawyer is going to say will be highly stacked toward what Krakeel, Frady, Horgan, and last but not least Hearn, would like to hear. If you listen to the earlier part where the lawyer and Krakeel are trying to 'interpret' the by laws, you might draw the same conclusion about the outcome of what the lawyer's opinion of it might be. That is my opinion and I can't come up with a different one at all.

AFTER, this is when Brown left.

.

I feel they were going to let him speak and were well versed on what he was going to say, but at the last minute, one of them looked down and saw a fly in their ointment and had a change of heart. Hearn however, wanted to still get his points across about the evils of diverting the money to pay other bills we have.

As far as Hearn, Horgan, and Frady, the problem all along in my eyes is they are going to build the bypass rather than pay bills with the SPLOST moey even if it bankrupts the county!

NUK_1
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sugar: I don't know

I was there and I have also listened to the link on youtube and I still think you're a little off on your assumptions here. You and apparently Brown are assuming something well in advance that I think might not be accurate at all.

I tried to warn the anti-WFB crowd that totally devoting your faith into people like Steve Brown or Dennis Chase is doomed for failure. You either have to beat the "system" from within or go so far outside of it that many people get weak knees and give up.

You align yourself with people that are heavily despised by some and it's a real upward battle to even get common sense issues resolved. Unfortunately, that's politics. either a better advocate is needed or you have to teach the advocate of the advantages of toning it WAY down in order to accomplish the goal.

The problem here is that Brown has merit in what he's going to present but burned all of his bridges long ago to the point that a bunch of people have long tuned him out, some for good reasons, others not. He's either going to work through it to achieve what he and many others want or he'll flame-out again and be just another embarrassment again.

I have no love at all for the 3 Stooges on the FC Commission, but that can't be repeated enough here as generally anything that seems almost within a country mile of defending them means I'm a developer or banker thanks to the Brown acolytes and their ignorance, but I wish you well in this fight and hope to see the FC Commission be mature and rational in deciding this issue instead of all of this BS.

Spear Road Guy
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Youtube On Frady

Herb Frady is a disgrace!!! He's no better than an tin pot dictator.

ginga1414
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Peter, An Outstanding Job - Well Done

And, you are still helping our community with your good sense comments and information as to how the commission works.

Peter Pfeifer
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Thanks

I’d like to say thanks before this thread goes away. It’s humbling and extremely flattering to hear the compliments written by some of you about Greg Dunn, Linda Wells and myself in this thread. I’ll express my thanks for the remarks and tell you I’m sure Greg and Linda feel the same way. We did try to represent Fayette County honestly and fairly. You may not have always felt we were right, but I did not detect any self-serving by any of us. And, I know that he has disputed this, but we did not even try to “set up”, or humiliate, or shut up Herb Frady or anyone else.

suggarfoot
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Peter, Frady always wanted the gavil

a few of us think he is gonna get carpal tunnel

ginga1414
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Steve, Thanks So Much For Posting A Comment

I don't know that it shows up so much on the video, but when Frady asked Scott Bennett to read the rules the look on Bennett's face was like a deer in the headlights.

He spent a minute or so trying to find the rules on his computer and then Jack Krakeel took over.

It took Krakeel a little over two minutes to find what he was looking for.

After Krakeel read the rules, Frady asked Bennett for an opinion. Bennett was obviously struggling to come up with an answer that would meet with Frady's approval.

Then, When Frady called for the Commissioners' Reports and Hearn tried to speak on HB-240, their motives were crystal clear.

suggarfoot
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The Three Stooges

"Then, When Frady called for the Commissioners' Reports and Hearn tried to speak on HB-240, their motives were crystal clear."

I thought that was probably the sickest, most insulting, and idiotic thing they have done so far. Refuse to let Steve Brown speak on HB-240, but then Hearn is going to impromptu speak on the evils on HB-240 and then says he would like for the lawyer Bennett to tell everyone what we can and can not do with HB-240! How dare they! When we clean house, we should not forget Krakeel and Bennett!

Frady, Hearn, and Horgan keep waiving the '20 page packet' as they call it for all to see. The problem is you can see it and the 20 pages are written in BOX CAR LETTERS with about 2 sentences on each page! What mental wizards we have!

How did we ever elect such stupid people? They are indeed 'the three stooges'!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiGDkloCa9Y

Steve Brown
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This should not be allowed to happen, ever.

A local resident called me and said, "The reason I know you are doing the right thing is the others are trying so hard to keep you from speaking. If you were wrong, they would be letting you tap dance on the dais."

Here are some facts for those who want them:
1. I submitted the agenda item long before the cut-off date with an appropriate explanation of my item.
2. I had an in-depth conversation with the County Administrator Jack Krakeel on my intentions regarding the budget crisis situation on May 24. Krakeel then sent a memorandum to all commissioners on May 25 about that discussion, including HB 240, saying, "The information is being provided to each Board member recognizing there may be additional budget discussion during the upcoming Public Hearings."
3. Krakeel also had personal discussions with commissioners on the HB 240 issue.
4. My presentation consisted of newspaper headlines, budget information already presented multiple times, some relevant revenue points and a motion to create a committee that included all Constitutional Officers (including Chairman Frady) to address the HB 240 issue.

The County Attorney's off the cuff opinion literally means that sufficient information is anything the three-member majority say it is, meaning they can keep any proposals from ever getting a public hearing if they wish.

PTC Observer
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Steve's presentation & stonewalling
Steve Brown wrote:

...they can keep any proposals from ever getting a public hearing if they wish.

Did you submit your presentation materials to the board members two week prior? Your statement on this post doesn't make this clear. If you did sumbit it, then make a motion at the next meeting.

If they have the material then why do you need a presentation?

Let's see how everyone votes on your motion. If they vote you down then you give your presentation to the press and public after the meeting and answer questions on your proposal. They can't stop you from doing this and my guess is you will inform more citizens using this approach than giving a presentation to a small group at a board meeting. It will also help having their vote on the record for any candidate opposing them in the next election.

Maybe they can delay and stand in the way of public hearings on subjects you feel passionate about, but if the public is paying attention they can only do this until the next election. Then the three of them will be thrown out of office.

BHH
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PTC, I think you've got this thing whipped.

Good suggestions.

Are you running next time?

suggarfoot
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PTC Observer

"If they vote you down then you give your presentation to the press and public after the meeting and answer questions on your proposal. They can't stop you from doing this and my guess is you will inform more citizens using this approach than giving a presentation to a small group at a board meeting. It will also help having their vote on the record for any candidate opposing them in the next election."

That is a wonderful suggestion!

suggarfoot
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Its NOT ok for Brown to discuss hb240

but I noticed in the video, Frady was going to let Hearn bad mouth it all he wanted untill Brown asked if Hearn had placed his request on the agenda!

Steve Brown doesn't make them look like fools. They do a good job of it all by themselves.

BHH
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Yes Steve, it seems that according to the rule that was read,

any commissioner can have any agenda item put off until the next meeting for any reason he chooses.

I just wonder how many times in a row in can be put off.

suggarfoot
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Thank you Peter Pfeifer, D Barlow, and Steve Brown

Thank you D Barlow for the links so we can all form our own opinions off the real McCoy rather than hear say. Thank you Peter Pfeifer for how the meeting should have run, and lastly, thank you Steve Brown for attempting the presentation.

My take is that with all the fumbling around trying to justify NOT letting Steve speak, they could have let him and be done with it. Frady going to such links to keep him from speaking will only make more people show up at the next meeting. But, I think the crowd had agitated him and their clapping was counter productive.

I have no house in the way of the bypass, nor do I own a cow pasture I want to sell so I can move on to Tahiti.

I'm just a small taxpayer who's nickels and dimes mean a lot to me as I don't have many of them. Those same nickels and dimes are crucial to many single Mom's trying to make ends meet. There are way too many of them out there fighting for a better life for their children. I'm older, and past the worst of it, but my heart goes out to all those young Mom's trying to make it and still give their kids everything they need to not be embarrassed.

Every dime counts for these people. They hang by a shoe string and moved here and shouldered very high taxes trying to do the best for their kids on what little they have. They can't afford private schools and hoped the Fayette county schools would give their kids more. A 100.00 more a month on taxes could finish them off. A 100.00 more back every month to spend on bills would be a luxury for them. To most of the affluent in FC, that is a small amount of money, to this group it could make or break them and their kids.

I feel like the welfare of the developers and landtrust have taken front stage and left this group behind in the dust. Isn't it about time the commisoners look at all the taxpayers? not just the rich ones? If by re distributing this money so that taxes don't go up and maybe down, they helped just one of the selfless, hardworking Moms leading lives of quiet desparation...wouldn't it be worth it?

BHH
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Thank you Steve for all your effort.

Don't take it so personal.

With all the citizen comments on this subject, at the next meeting one of the other commissioners will probably make it sound like it is their idea to move the funding to the general fund.

If you have accomplished nothing else, you have generated more common interest in the counties affairs.

And that's a good thing.

Spyglass
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You should start your own thread..

and them comment to yourself. Should be entertaining.

BHH
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It's commonly acceptable to provide an outline of a powerpoint

to those present so they can follow along as it is presented on the screen.

The presentation itself is the viewers opportunity for exposure to the material.

I don't know what Brown provided 2 weeks earlier but if it didn't include the outline of his powerpoint then by these rules any commissioner could have objected and had the presentation postponed at what ever moment he began the powerpoint.

These meetings are public and the other commissioners have every right to be informed in advance of what will be discussed. There is no reason for any of them to be caught off guard by the information.

I don't know if Brown's intent was to attempt to make the other commissioners look foolish in public or not, but apparently Frady fears that it was.

You can't blame Frady for being cautious where Brown is concerned, but I think anyone could quickly see that the 20 pages provided was just an outline of the powerpoint.

These rules are designed to be of use to the commission when there is too much public attention to and participation in the meetings. It sometimes help to diffuse a potential problem.

The next meeting will be very interesting. I think everyone could be surprised by what takes place.

Peter Pfeifer
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NUK & Rules

I believe this is the issue on a “Rule”.

First, someone here claimed there was an “ordinance”. The Commission’s “Rules”, for operating their meetings, don’t rise to the level of an “ordinance”.

Second, the Commission operates under Roberts Rules of Order. There is nothing there about “2 weeks”, or other, time based restriction.

Then, the Commission, or other body, operates under their own Standing Rules. These are procedural “Rules”. In the article, the “2 weeks”, is called a “policy”.

Last, if one has a “Rule” OR a “policy”, and one continuously violates it, then you don’t have a “Rule”, or a “policy”. It’s well established that the Commission regularly violates “2 weeks notice” for everything; presentations, discussions, motions, and voting.

So, they really don’t have a “Rule” or a “policy” regarding this issue, even if they have something written down.

Maybe we could call it a “wish”. As in, they “wish” that everyone would provide materials 2 weeks in advance but, if they don’t, and if the majority finds favor with what wasn’t presented 2 weeks in advance, that’s okay. But, if they don’t like it, that’s not okay and violates the 2 weeks wish/rule/policy.

And, I think NUK is absolutely correct. Precisely what would happen to any SPLOST money if it were going to be redirected. As I understand the Legislation, the Commission would have to determine the pros and cons of doing any redirecting, decide if it were what they believed was correct and place it before the voters, including all the information NUK mentioned.

NUK_1
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Thanks for your service and taking the heat, Peter

I thought the FC with you, Dunn, and Wells was pretty good overall. I didn't agree with you or the rest 100% of the time, but I think that group at that time did in fact conduct business in a manner that strongly showed you all cared a lot about the ramifications of your actions and the best for FC. Agree or disagree, I can really respect that.

DBarlow
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Frady vs Brown Videos posted

I have been diligently working on the video of Thursday's night commission meeting. The audio is pitiful but I worked on it a little to enhance the volume and hopefully the ability to see and hear the meeting. The first video is the citizens speaking out in support of HB240:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qebdVdhwHI
The second video is Frady vs Brown:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiGDkloCa9Y
One day the commission will have audio connections that will allow our videos to be clearly seen and heard.
I thank all the wonderful citizens of Fayette County who turned out in support of HB240.

Davids mom
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Dbarlow

Thanks for the video. It is interesting that some here criticize what goes on in the Clayton and Atlanta leadership meetings - when one observes what is going on in Fayette County.

roundabout
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DM: one big difference

Decisions are made in Fayette, right or wrong!

Judges get fired when required and Chiefs of Police are canned when necessary.

Doesn't happen in Atlanta, ever.

Campbell only one ever to go to jail!

Spyglass
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Feel free to move to Clayton or Atlanta..

if you think they do ANYTHING better. Believe me, I know. We may argue and bicker here amongst ourselves, but I'll take that all day long over the alternative, especially Clayton County.

Davids mom
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Loyalty and support

The leaders here hopefully appreciate citizen loyalty and support. We'll see. Truthfully, I always thought the reports of actions at 'leadership meetings' were exaggerated. The video was educational. . .and a disappointment. I accept what is claimed as a big difference between Fayette and other counties. What I saw was not too different at all.
Why is the leadership in Decatur not having a problem in redirecting their available funds to help alleviate the lack of funds available for education? What I saw was a determination to adhere to a rule. (Nothing wrong with that). But it appeared that once the details of the 'rule' were clarified, the chairman proceeded to allow another member to break the 'rule'. I thought the citizens present acted correctly by 'walking out'. I feel that there will be a larger citizen turnout at the next meeting.

Joe Kawfi
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Slavery in Georgia

Woman convicted of forcing nannies into slavery

She recruited young women in Nigeria to come to the United States to work as nannies, promising to send them to school and treat them like family, according to the U.S. Attorney's Office. But once the victims arrived, Bello was verbally and physically abusive, doling out beatings.

Who woulda thunkit? Slavery still exists. Sad.

roundabout
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Kawfi

Except these Nigerians didn't walk at the first beating or of no pay!

Better to be sent back to Nigeria than live as a slave!

Not slavery, just taking advantage of someone here illegally.

We have a few pickers, or chicken gutters in that category!

They can aways go home. Slaves of the 1800s couldn't go anywhere and get away with it. Even the law would return them! Or kill them.

Also kinda like 10-12 year old boys working in coal mines in Wales, etc.

Depressions or laziness or selfishness foster many such treatments!

pips1414
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The thing about Brown is he's usually right

The sound system in the commissioners meeting room is awful. People have been complaining for ages about Frady mumbling, or they can't hear what's being said.

Brown's PowerPoint presentation was limited to his approved agenda. The agenda was approved unanimously at the beginning of the meeting. Had he been allowed to make his presentation and then strayed from the subject matter, Brown could have been challenged by Frady or any of the other commissioners.

All a PowerPoint presentation does is act as a visual aid to give the audience a better understanding of what's being said. All things considered, it's almost as though the commissioners don't want the audience to hear what's being said. The existing sound system has been bad for years. With all the large viewing screens in that room, why not use them?

The question of a new sound system arose during the meeting, and Commissioner McCarty specifically pointed out that a new system was needed, for which the county would have to pay. Commissioner McCarty has had decades of experience in television broadcasting and station construction.

Frady should have allowed Brown to make his presentation, and if he was still not swayed by Brown's views, could then have tabled the voting. He would then have had two weeks to give instructions for reviewers to try and find some loophole as to why it wouldn't work.

With Frady the apparent spokesperson for the "three amigos," it's obvious to me that we're down to a one man show.

Peter Pfeifer
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Missing the point

I guess that one of the differences in viewpoints here is the purpose of the writer. Most of the criticism of Steve misses the point.

If you wish for open and honest government, you give leeway to encouraging the presentation of facts and opinions.

I wasn’t at this meeting but it certainly appears that Mr. Brown was attempting to present information surrounding a motion he intended to make. If his information was verbal, written or visual, what is the procedural difference?

If he had gone forward with a presentation, and made a motion, that would be the time for any Commissioner to request a tabling to allow for their further study of the issue, including Brown’s presentation. The other Commissioners should then have approved a request for a tabling. End of issue.

What seems to have happened is that Mr. Frady and staff made up a requirement that no topic could be discussed without two weeks written notice to the other Commissioners. I have never heard of such a requirement and neither have any of you. It doesn’t exist.

This Commission, and past Commissions, have brought up numerous items that weren’t even on an Agenda but were presented and voted on with no notice at all. I was there for some.

Some want to focus on Steve’s “antics”, “theatrics”, “grow up Steve”, “grandstanding”. What irrelevant nonsense. Others on his vow to (attempt) to stop the West Bypass. I think Steve was elected, not because his supporters expected that he could single handedly stop the bypass, but to because he would stop his opponent! If you think “someone other than Steve could have made progress …”. Well, “someone other than Steve” didn’t run, did they?

NUK_1
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Sorry Peter, that "rule" certainly does exist

"It doesn't exist." Yes, yes it does. It was even read during the meeting by staff. That seemed a little to "convenient" how Frady says "hey, there's this rule" and staff is ready for it. Seems a bit planned to me. Don't tell everyone what we know or don't know either as that's rather ignorant and presumptuous.

As far as past actions of placing items on the agenda and then voting on them immediately, that certainly has happened and it's way wrong, I agree.

I'd also agree with you on the point that the FC Commission COULD have chosen to listen to Brown's presentation and then tabled any motions due to the two week rule and to review documentation. I think before any voting, it would be relevant to determine exactly what can be done with the SPLOST money if it's going to be not used on 2 bypasses, specifically, what debt are we going to pay down with this money? How much would be saved? Which debt is going to be paid down(or off) and which isn't? What's the interest on the county's indebtedness per item? That's information that needs to be gathered and presented.

ginga1414
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NUK_1,

All of your questions would have been answered if Steve Brown had been allowed to give his presentation.

Frady, Horgan, and Hearn didn't want your questions answered.

NUK_1
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Ginga

I don't think giving the commissioners the 20 page document right before the meeting and also not having this information in the meeting packet makes much sense. If another commissioner did similar, Brown would strongly protest and he'd be right to do so.

In two weeks, everyone will have a chance to have reviewed all supporting documentation of Brown's and anything staff has gathered and then can listen to Brown's presentation. Seems OK to me.

The meeting was a fiasco which I blame on both Brown and Frady, but that's sort of why I went...I knew there would be fireworks and I thought people would end up getting ejected by deputies, but I didn't figure most everyone would up and leave right away, including Brown. I did look outside afterwards while the meeting continued just to make sure you folks weren't out front with pitchforks and torches ready to storm the place :)

suggarfoot
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the only hope

it seems is that one or all the commissioners wake up and realize that instead of picking on Steve they are suppose to be representing us the taxpayer.

People are loosing their houses, unemployment is high, and people have bills. This is not the time to be building roads who's only purpose is to open up cow pastures for developers. We have houses sitting on the market that can't be sold. What it the point?

It is asking way too much of the taxpayers. There is not a single person out there that couldn't stand to see their taxes drop 50 or 100 a month. Everyone could certainly use the money.

Hearn evokes God at every opportunity. If he is the Christian he says he is, he should show some compasion to the taxpayers and their children.

Spyglass
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So in your opinion..

the commission meetings should be a free for all? Or do you think things should be presented in an orderly fashion? You can't just bring up issues out of the blue and expect to have "other facts" to refute or agree with your point readily available.

If you don't see this as a stunt, there's really not much more to say.

suggarfoot
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I see it as a stunt by the 3 Commissioners

There is no 'stunt' to bringing info that could help the taxpayers out. All the other 3 had to do was listen.

There was no 'stunt' to the new gov passing the new law to help the
counties out. It was passed caused it was needed.

There was a stunt pulled. It was Frady being so bull headed to show Steve Brown who was boss that he completely put the needs of the average taxpayer in the back seat. I don't feel he should put his personal feelings first.

That doesn't excuse Hearn or Horgan for not speaking up and saying they would be willing to hear anything that would help the taxpayers out. They are all three guilty of neglecting the opportunity to see if they could better the taxpayers.

NUK_1
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sugar: Plenty of blame to go around

Brown was going to act like a little brat no matter if he had given his presentation or not. As soon he made a motion and the other 3(maybe 4) voted to table it so they could review the facts, get this info out to the public and media BEFORE voting, he'd go ballistic. It's the Steve Brown dysfunctional bad idea of "leadership."

The fact that 3 of the Commission have been pretty inept and have PO'd most of FC already means these meetings are going to be a powder keg for hyper-emotionalism, grandstanding, and a whole lot of BS that doesn't serve the county or its taxpayers.

Hopefully in a couple of weeks, everyone can get on the same page, act like adults instead of Romper Room, and realize that taking the SPLOST money and paying down debt is common sense and MUCH more needed than either bypass. Forget the damn WFB/EPB.

The nightmare scenario that I see as possibly happening is the 3 Stooges decide to use the SPLOST pot of gold to finish funding the WFB and then take the remaining funds and pay down debt. They want the WFB something fierce and will argue that "money already committed....contracts signed...blah blah blah" That's also another area that has to be discussed in regards to using the SPLOST funds to solely pay down debt: what's the County's present and future financial obligations that have already been encumbered and committed?

suggarfoot
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thank you Nuk

all good points.

Spyglass
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No doubt..

His first paragraph especially is spot on. See I knew we would find common ground.

That said, have a nice day, going to be a hot one.

Spyglass
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Brown is clueless to the rules...or doesn't care..

take your pick.

Do you really think any different?

suggarfoot
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so Hearn and Horgan follow the "rules"

Horgan roles down a public highway smoking dope on a Sunday afternoon

(Following the rules?)

the policeman that stopped him didn't think so! And when he was stopped, wasn't there some talk about who he was?

..........................

Hearn pushes his cousin who is head of a family land trust (formed to maximize profit of their land next to the bypass) as his 'good friend and upstanding church goer?

(Following the rules?)

Fellow Church members who knew they were cousins told because they didn't think it was right and was also common knowlege among them. They felt he was playing the public and fellow church members for fools.

I think there is ample proof these guys bend the rules to suit their needs.

Why am I so outspoken on the subject? I don't have the extra money to give to the Developer Charity Fund by way of my taxes!

My charity begins at home. I'm a single parent of a child that means more to me than the developers making a few more million by having the public build roads and empty schools for their cowpastures. How many million was it 26? that Smith on the BOE forgot to disclose the development company that her husband owned and she was a officer of, had made? Oh, to have a million I just happened to forget.

I'm tired of being leached on and drained to help a few get more vulgarly rich!

Spyglass
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I realize you know this..

And are just going with the flow re Brown..

But your references have zero to do with how Commission Meetings are ran.

suggarfoot
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I was trying to make the point

that at least two on the council are selective as to what rules they think they should follow and skirt the ones that don't agree with them.

Horgan put others in danger cause he wanted a toke more than he valued other's safety.

and

Hearn wasn't giving full disclosure about his cousin cause he wanted to seem above board

http://animalvideos.yahoo.com/video-detail?vid=25510823&cid=24037714

PTC Observer
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Peter - Excellent

Excellent and well thought out points. But let's suppose that Mr. Frady is in fact trying to keep Mr. Brown from speaking and bringing a motion.

Let's say that the rule for two weeks is valid, what's the harm in having Mr. Brown submit all this two weeks in advance and then give his presentation AND motion?

Is there something happening in the next two weeks that is a killer issue that won't allow Mr. Brown the opportunity to accomplish the things he wants to accomplish?

Now let's further suppose that Mr. Brown follows Mr. Frady's made up rules, and in two weeks he still doesn't let Mr. Brown proceed with his presentation or his motion. Well wouldn't it be even more apparent that Mr. Frady is stonewalling? Isn't that what Mr. Brown, in the end, is attempting to do here? To expose Mr. Frady for what he is and to "stop his opponent", in the next election?

IMHO, that is what Mr. Brown should be focused on, exposing Mr. Frady's antics to the public's outrage, thus giving any candidate running against Mr. Frady the ability to point to these events in the next election cycle.

BTW, someone other than Steve did run, that was Harold Bost, Mr. Bost bowed out to support Steve.

Again, IMHO, Mr. Frady knows that he is toast in the next election and my guess is he won't run for re-election anyway. Thus he will deprive Mr. Brown and others the opportunity to defeat him and he will finish his political career with the thing that he has coveted from the beginning, the Chairmanship of the Board.

Peter I have the greatest respect for you and your service to our community.

BHH
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Thank you Peter.

A most excellent observation.

suggarfoot
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Thank you Peter

I miss you as a Commissioner, as I do Mr Dunn and Linda Wells. You were all good, sincere people who listened to us. I have great respect for the three of you. This would never have happened had you guys still been there.

ginga1414
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Please Observe

I would like for everyone to observe in the photograph that accompanies this article that Commissioner Brown is leaving his desk and the deputy is still seated to the right.

ginga1414
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BBQ, Did You Attend The Meeting?

I attended the meeting. My husband and I sat on the second row. We recorded the entire meeting. I have listened to the recording twice.

I did not see or hear Chairman Frady order the deputy to take Commissioner Brown out of the meeting.

I did hear Chairman Frady say to Commissioner Brown that he thought he ought to leave.

I did hear Commissioner Brown say, "I'd be glad to." And, he proceeded to gather his computer, coat and papers. During that period, the deputy remained seated.

The subject matter for Commissioner Brown's presentation had been presented for inclusion to the Agenda MORE THAN TWO WEEKS PREVIOUSLY!

Commissioner's visual aids for his presentation were sitting on each commissioner's desk long before the meeting started.

Chairman Frady called the meeting to order. Commissioner Hearn said the prayer. The entire room gave the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag.

Chairman Frady called for the Agenda to be approved or disapproved.

Commissioner Brown's presentation was listed on the Agenda. I was holding the Agenda in my hands. I had received a copy of the Agenda when I walked into the Commission Meeting Room. The Agenda was published by the county staff. If Commissioner Brown had not fulfilled all the requirements for having an item placed on the Agenda, why did the item appear on the Agenda?

When Chairman Frady called for the approval of the Agenda, it was at that point that all of the commissioners had the opportunity to approve Commissioner Brown's Agenda Item or disapprove Commissioner Brown's Agenda Item.

THE AGENDA WAS APPROVED BEFORE THE EYES AND EARS OF MORE THAN 200 AUDIENCE MEMBERS!!!

How are you qualified to speak on the "substance" of another individual?

NUK_1
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Ginga: correct
ginga1414 wrote:

I attended the meeting. My husband and I sat on the second row. We recorded the entire meeting. I have listened to the recording twice.

I did not see or hear Chairman Frady order the deputy to take Commissioner Brown out of the meeting.

I did hear Chairman Frady say to Commissioner Brown that he thought he ought to leave.

I did hear Commissioner Brown say, "I'd be glad to." And, he proceeded to gather his computer, coat and papers. During that period, the deputy remained seated.

This is exactly what I saw also and thanks for dispelling the rumor that Brown was thrown out of the meeting and escorted at by a deputy as has been reported here by some.

AtHomeGym
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Nuk & Public Officials

Listen folks, no matter which side of the political spectrum you come down on, you've gotta admit that this is a helluva way to run a railroad! Talk about tomfoolery & childish behaviour! And these are adults supposedely conducting official county government business? I think BHH and all the rest of us should move to De Kalb County where we would know what to expect from our elected officials.

NUK_1
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Free entertainment is what I saw

I guess on some level it could be called depressing, but I sure didn't go that meeting for business as usual...I knew there would be some very cheap entertainment on the menu and I got more than I even expected :)

roundabout
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Same idiocy.........

..........As was occurring in Wisconsin at the capitol!

NOTHING is ever gained by such carrying on! A small minority raise hell about a subject that not very many care about enough to reverse a decision the majority of the elected officials voted.

Those teachers in Wisconsin won nothing and these roads will be built.

Put the effort into making the school board balance the budget without using all of the contingency money!
Next year will be even worse for budgets and so much will be piled up by then that they can't balance it without raising taxes substantially.

That is probably the plan!

carbonunit52
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AtHomeGym

I need to go to one of these meetings. I really don't have any skin in the game but it is now obvious that I am missing a lot of free entertainment.

AtHomeGym
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Carbo & "No skin in the game"`

If you live in Fayette County, you do indeed have "skin in the game." What they do (or don't do) has some effect on all Fayette citizens. Join in and give us your report--it'll be good to hear from another source!

suggarfoot
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I was wrong

When Ginga said he wasn't escorted out, I called the wife of the person that told me he was. What happened was the person that told me he was escorted out had gone to the rest room, when he was going back in he said "here came Steve an officer and the public right behind him." He thought Steve was thrown out and that is what he told me.

His wife stated that Steve n Frady got into it and Steve was packing up to leave. Then Horgan or Hearn started talking about something they wanted to do and Steve made a comment something to the effect, "I suppose that was on the agenda." at which point Frady turned to the officer and said "He needs to go", (implying help him out the door if he doesn't move fast enough) but Steve was already on his way out.

roundabout
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ginga

If I were Brown an the Chairman said he thought I ought to leave the building, then I would leave.

I didn't know however that a Chairman could throw out, or ask one to leave who was elected also.

BBQ Jones
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His Antics Killed His Point

If Steve Brown really believed in his point, he would have stayed and followed procedures. Instead his antics leave one to believe that he cares more about theatrics than his point.

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