The thing about Brown: He’s most often right

Who is Steve Brown, former Peachtree City mayor and current Post 4 candidate for county commissioner? Some people attempt to cast him as a villain, while others laud his stand on contentious issues, Let’s explore two of them.

If it’s easy to find stories about Steve Brown (which it is), it’s even easier to find newspaper articles by Steve. And while you may not agree with all his positions, even his greatest detractors would have to concede that he thoroughly researches his subjects, which is particularly refreshing in an era of politicians who don’t even read measures they vote for.

Two past projects seem to have generated the most debate: the extension of TDK Boulevard from Peachtree City to Coweta County, and the Peachtree City Development Authority’s operation of the Tennis Center.

Time has proven Brown right on both of his very public crusades for citizens he represented. If you are an average homeowner wanting to preserve our great quality of life, Brown has been one of your greatest defenders.

TDK Boulevard — On Feb 7, 2003, then-Mayor Steve Brown signed the TDK Boulevard Extension Agreement with the Fayette County Commission, agreeing to extend that road “to promote adequate and safe means of transportation” and committing the city to a $200,000 contribution.

While the city could regulate growth along the road within its limits, it had no control over the Coweta County length of the road that abutted the city. Developers quickly saw opportunities to heavily build along the Coweta portion of the road, and Coweta offered no zoning assurances to protect Peachtree City from adjacent overdevelopment.

As a result of those plans, Steve said in a March 2004 letter to the editor, “The creation of the TDK Extension is purely for developmental purposes, not traffic relief,” and in November he called the developer special interest claims of the extension being “a bypass which would reduce traffic on Highway 54” the “relief valve myth.” The Citizen reported the following month that Brown was “vehemently opposed” to moving forward with the TDK Extension.

The Newnan Times-Herald editorial board, in a December 2004 issue, compared Brown to Alabama Governor George Wallace standing in the doorway blocking integration while saying he was the “lone holdout in the new road talks.”

Former mayors of Peachtree City and the leadership of the Chamber of Commerce all lambasted Brown for taking a stand against the TDK Extension. By October of 2005, Brown’s predecessor, a very frustrated Bob Lenox, said that everyone from Congressman Lynn Westmoreland down to every local councilperson knew Brown “personally stonewalled this [TDK] project.”

Lenox continued, “It is not often in government that you can clearly find the culprit when things go wrong, but in this case every one of us who has worked for years to make TDK Boulevard a reality knows that Steve Brown stopped it.”

Harold Logsdon campaigned in favor of the TDK Extension and displaced Brown as mayor in 2004. Soon, however, after massive development plans were filed in Coweta, groups like the Peachtree City Civic Association joined in the movement to kill the expansion, and by June of 2007, the road project was officially dead and Fayette County returned the $200,000 to the city.

In the January 2008 PTC Update newsletter, Mayor Harold Logsdon, an enthusiastic supporter of the extension said, “Two years ago I campaigned on the need for TDK.” He continued, “Well, the situation changed with the proposed massive development on our border, so I changed my position. Completing TDK is not in the best interest of PTC and I don’t see that changing anytime soon.”

Had Brown not had the courage to take a stand with everyone railing against him, we would have the TDK Extension, a massive development next to us, and traffic jams worse than any we can imagine. Steve Brown had taken a whole lot of heat, but it turns out that the lone holdout was right.

Tennis Center — The other issue that special interests target Brown for is the tennis center and development authority scandal. Like the TDK issue, Brown took a stand against what he thought was wrong and was not in the best interest of PTC: loose (and sometimes non-existent) accounting records, failure to record meeting minutes and borrowing funds without public votes.

Following Brown’s efforts, The Citizen editor Cal Beverly said in an in-depth November 2005 public blog that “Those community leaders ran the old DAPC out of their back pockets. They kept precious few records, despite being required to by state law. Several of them served on the board of directors of either a lending bank or a bidding contractor.”

Beverly condemned the DAPC’s performance saying, “If they had performed the same way on their day jobs, they would have been justifiably terminated.” He concluded, “There is no recorded vote on more than a million dollars in loans to the DAPC. There’s no paperwork financial trail to determine where that money went. How can any reasonable person praise this old board?”

Many of the people who defended the DAPC were mortified to learn that three of the DAPC members were on the board of directors of the bank issuing under-the-table high interest, short-term loans to the DAPC.

A September 2005 article appearing in The Citizen entitled, “Mayor slams DAPC board members’ bank ties,” DAPC member and bank board member Doug Warner admitted he should not have voted on the loans due to a conflict of interest. “If that’s evil, then I’m sorry. Take me to task for it,” Warner said.

The DAPC members resigned in shame. Steve Brown, the lone holdout, was proven right again.

I’d add one footnote. Being a senior leader on the people’s side of high profile issues distinguishes a public servant from a politician. That’s why I’m voting for Steve Brown for Fayette County commissioner, Post 4.

Robert Ross

Peachtree City, Ga.

SPQR
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ginga

no apology necessary. I assumed you misunderstood. Watch out for the stress. It can be VERY unhealthy. I have supported Brown in the past. Had the only Brown sign in a neighborhood of several hundred homes when he ran for reelection.

I certainly don't agree with him on many points but do see him as having a lot more personal integrity than most.

SPQR
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ginga

help me out here. Read through Steve's campaign stuff on his website but did not see anything pertaining to district voting. Did I just miss it?

Citizen Bob
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Steve has listened, and revised a former position

He has stated that he now believes term limits are a more effective means of ensuring that government represents the general population than district voting does. Why not contact Steve directly email directly?

Good question, SPQR

CCB
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My gosh Nuk you've got to ease up on the exaggeration and lying

I didn't agree with the districting voting proposal either. But Brown's letter (please know I read it after YOU posted the link) was an excellent history of voting in our country and Fayette County and he made some good points. That being said I still don't support it.

He hasn't brought the subject up in years and he's said a bunch of times that he doesn't support it any longer. I admire someone who listens to what the people have to say and responds accordingly.

What I can't believe is you are supporting Jack Smith who is forcing the West Fayetteville Bypass on us. You are supporting the guy who want to raise our sales tax for no good reason. Smith lied on the buses and is ethically challenged on the bank deal.

So what's it going to be Nuk? You going to vote for the guy who dropped an old issue and said won't support it or are you backing the guy who is currently beating us over the head with the bypass and refuses to leave the developer-bank board of directors?

Your posts are so darn weak and irrelevant I wish you would stick to the Free Speech section of the site.

NUK_1
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Lying, huh?

The only lie I see is yours where you state "he hasn't brought it up in years" when the letter to editor was less than two years ago. Please. If you are going to start calling people "liars," maybe you had better clean up your own act. Or, you could develop something called "class" but I won't hold my breath on that.

The letter Brown wrote speaks for itself. The about 15 posts I have made here saying I wasn't voting for either Smith or Brown speak for themselves and only the brain-damaged haven't got that point yet. For Browniacs like yourself though, that's beyond your level of comprehension for some reason.

Let em help you out: you can be totally 100% against Steve Brown and STILL not like Jack Smith at all and not vote for either! Is that so difficult to understand?

hutch866
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CCB

Just another one of your hit and run posts. I can remember in a couple of Nuk's posts where he said he wasn't voting for either one of the candidates. Is that so hard to understand? I've posed several questions to your boy Brown, and have never got an answer, so my question to you is, how is that different from Smith. Brown only seems to answer either his followers, or the people from PTC. Seems the rest of us don't count. I even asked you to point out the facts you said I was twisting, and in true Brown style, you ignored me too. I can't help but think that the B in your moniker stands for Brown. The sales tax issue is a dead issue, since WE have the deciding vote.

VOICE YOUR DISPLEASURE WITH OUR CHOICES HERE IN FAYETTE, WRITE IN BALD CYCLIST FOR COMMISSIONER!!!!!!!

Steve Brown
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Hutch 866, where are the questions?

I looked and cannot find them. I will more than happy to answer your questions.

NUK_1
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CitizenBob: I don't think that's the point

If you read that letter from Brown published in 2008, he blasts his former opponents and compares them and others opposed to district voting as being people who hate civil rights for all. He even blathers on about how they might even be worse than slaveowners.

Now that he's changed his position just like did on several other issues, does he still feel Ramsey, Logsdon, the FC commissioners et all are basically oppressing the voters of FC with their 1800's attitudes or does Steve now part of that same group? I haven't heard his apology yet for trashing the people against district voting and comparing them to a bunch of bigots, even though he now agrees with their position on district voting.

That letter and its over-the-top rhetoric is a perfect example of Brown's antics and lack of maturity for the past several years and why he's lost the last two races by huge margins.

Citizen Bob
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NUK_1

You'd have to ask candidate Brown, but he may have written the stories differently if those leaders had proposed other alternatives, such as term limits, instead of just saying 'no'. The issue of whether to enact/not district voting probably has as many +/- points (as well as political rhetoric) as a few other county issues (SPLOST, construction projects, and public transportation) and we're better served when we have more than a yes/no choice on key issues.

Our best public leaders will unearth the facts, form conclusions (some of which may be at odds), listen to and integrate public comment, then make a decision they believe serves us optimally. They (and we) should regularly follow up to see the consequences of said decisions and adjust as needed (at least that's the theory!).

As you too seem to appreciate, it's certainly a complex and often inefficient process- akin to achieving consensus in a family of 35,000.

Would rather see a voter mandate on the different paths candidates want to take us, instead of a 49.9& - 50.1% result.

Spear Road Guy
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Get Real Morgan

I agree it's all about getting qualified people in office. THAT'S OUR CURRENT PROBLEM WITH THE COUNTY COMMISSION. You've said as much yourself!!!

I support the term limit idea 100%. That way the pot smoking commissioner, the commissioner who sleeps during meetings, the commissioner who has consistently not told the truth and the commissioner who is applying to be a judge at the same time he's running for commissioner can be forced off if the voters are foolish enough to reelect them. That's a motley crew you're supporting Morgan.

If you'd read the blogs, Steve Brown said he dropped the district voting and went for term limits instead and why.

Bob Ross did a great job on this letter and if a lot of us knew the real story Steve Brown probably would have been reelected. I didn't vote for Brown the second time around and I admitted I was plain wrong. Brown never chose a conflict of interest with the local bank or accepted expensive gifts from a company he gave tax breaks to like Jack Smith did.

Jack Smith looked the people of this county in eye and said he'd never support those buses from Atlanta, Coweta and Clayton in our county. He flat out lied to us. He had 3 chances to vote no and voted yes every time. Smith betrayed us for 30 pieces of silver. That's the guy you want us to vote for Morgan???

You want us to support a guy like Smith who will build the West Fayetteville Bypass for his developer friends when no one in the county favors building that road???

Your hatred for Steve Brown for whatever reason is causing you to support a bunch of thugs who could care less about the people in this county. That's really too bad Morgan. I pity people like you who are driven by hate.

Robert W. Morgan
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I like the kind of term limits that will happen next Tuesday

you know, the one where we limit the term of the 2 challengers in the county commission race to zero.

I see no connection between the other kind of term limits and district voting, but both are far less important that actually getting qualified people running for office. That hasn't happened for a long time - probably because of the press coverage and outright abuse elected officials get. Of course some of it is deserved - like the scrutiny of Brown's one-term fiasco as mayor of PTC, but that causes qualified leaders to say no thank you when it comes to seeking public office.

Citizen Bob
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RWM- what's fair is fair...

Your comment on the candidates seems to be missing Smith's China trip, a $135 Smith-Maxwell SPLOST (to, in part, pay off $55m of 4.1% - 5% bonds), and voting for public bus hubs in the county. Are those actions of what you deem to be qualified candidates?

Just asking ...

Robert W. Morgan
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Yes Steve - oops, I mean Bob - lot's of things are missing

My comment was about keeping out the challengers and lamenting the fact that so few qualified people run for office. It is true that when addressing two perfectly valid issues, that other things are left out. Don't try so hard, Steve. Everybody knows you have multiple identities on here and they laugh at you all the time.

I don't care if Smith went to China or actually did vote for MARTA (although he did not) - I voted for him because he is an adult and you are not. It is that simple.

Courthouserules
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Morgan

I have never in my life seen so much harping about any subject as some on here do about who is who and how many names they have.
I'll just bet you and others are the same people who want to go around asking everyone you don't like the looks of for their "papers!"
What in the world difference does it make what one's pseudo name is?
Isn't what is said the only important thing?
It is like asking people what "family" do you come from? Oh then you can't amount to much! It is a hillbilly thing.

ginga1414
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Nuk, I Can't Speak For Steve Brown But....

it seems to me that Term Limits would prevent any one public official from setting up a monopoly in office. In other words, it would give the voters more diversity in their representation. I'm sure there are others who could speak on the subject far more eloquently than I.

Somebody, please, jump in here and help me out.

NUK_1
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I'm sure he'll say he's against district voting.....

.....until elected. Oh wait, that isn't going to happen because he'll lose big as usual, but Brown has shown repeatedly in the past that he will do a total 180 if he thinks it is politically expedient. Some might say that shows a real lack of principles and is very characteristic of the usual politician.

When he was the Fayette NAACP Man of the Year and ripping to shreds in this newspaper the FC commissioners about not allowing district voting he didn't seem to care at all that it was a wildly unpopular idea at the time and he knew it. Now, when it comes time to run yet again for office, he's decided it is more important to get elected and forget district voting.

There is no comparison between term limits and district voting anyway. How those two concepts got co-mingled by Brown can only be explained by his great desire to disavow his written remarks of the past for district voting.

Courthouserules
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NUK: what is district voting?

Is it the opposite of "at large?"
Does it mean if a district has a majority of a certain type of people that those particular people will elect one of their own?
Does it mean that if we have at large voting that those particular people may never have someone elected from their type?
Is "gerrymandering" similar---or is that selecting a "district" from a little from here (another district actually) and a little from there until sufficient numbers of one type are in that district to elect one of their own?
WOW! Is that how some people of a type ever got into office? I am amazed!

Why would such stuff be needed if we just simply nominated the best person for the job regardless of type? What, you say that never did happen and district voting had to be installed?
WOW, isn't that racist, maybe? (can't be nominated or elected if the other type).
I am flabbergasted by all that?
Didn't President Obama hurdle that fence somehow? Or was it that all of his competition was so bad that he simply got in by that accident?
Or was it that the preceding administration just about destroyed our great democracy and economy?

CCB
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Can we be honest about this election?

Can we be honest about the district voting for a minute? The incumbents who make a complete mess out of our state and federal governments (eg. Ronnie Chance, Matt Ramsey, Lynn Westmoreland, Judge English) were all elected in district voting elections. Now the stupid thing about it all is those district elected morons support Jack Smith. What does that tell you?

Ronnie Chance is so far up the special interest's behind you're gonna have to get a proctologist to get him out.

What we need is to apply our boots to the incumbents behinds and send them packing! None of them represent us - not a one.

Does anyone really think Jack Smith represents us? These guys are using the old district voting issue to distract you from the real issues like the bypass and the tax increases and the buses we're gonna have to be paying for in more ways than one.

The Smith bloggers are just empty buckets. They can't complete on the issues - period.

hutch866
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CCB

Just another flip flop from Brown, who would say anything, do anything to get elected, just like...well Smith. Not a dimes worth of difference between them.

VOICE YOUR DISPLEASURE WITH OUR CHOICES HERE IN FAYETTE, WRITE IN BALD CYCLIST FOR COMMISSIONER!!!!!!!

SPQR
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Steve Brown-no wiggle room please

Steve

I see the wfb and district voting as key issues. If you are going to back away from district voting it needs to be without wiggle room. Your statements seem to say you would trade term limits for district voting. IE first choice term limits second choice district voting. I need to hear you say that you Unequivocally do not support district voting.

ginga1414
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CCB, Hallelujah

At last somebody who will talk about facts. I spent most of last night researching on the Georgia Secretary of State's website. I found mounds of interesting stuff relating to the board members of the BOG, but the most interesting concerned Bank of Georgia Board member Charles R. Ogletree (no information provided on the holding company's website). According to the Secretary of State, Mr. Charles R. Ogletree is the owner of two businesses, namely South-Tree Enterprises, Inc. and Southtree Development. According to the South-Tree Enterprises, Inc. website, "South-Tree Enterprises is a full-service commercial real estate firm engaged in the development and marketing of retain, office, industrial and mixed-use properties." According to the South-Tree Enterprises, Inc. website, they built the Bank of Georgia in Fairburn, Newnan, Sharpsburg, Tyrone, and Fayetteville. Also, according to South-Tree Enterprises, Inc. a Testimonial as to the company's good qualifications was given by Thomas Sellmer who is also a BOG Board member.

Thank you, CCB. According to my calculations there are six (6) members on the Bank of Georgia Board who can be classified as developers, builders, and real estate folks (same difference).

CCB
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Birdman and Mudcat are trying too hard

Birdman and Mudcat you’re going so far overboard that we can’t see you to throw a life preserver. You two just hate the guy with a passion and it shows. What did he do to you anyway? Did he get you fired or something?

As someone who was contracting in the Perimeter Center CID many years ago you don’t really know what you are talking about. There is no raise in taxes. And what’s deal with talking to John Wieland. Why can’t he talk to Wieland?

Rick Schlosser's attempt at sticking a knife in Brown’s back worked for the election but he was cleared. I looked up the thing he put in his letter in the newspaper. I’ve never liked Rick. He's one of the sleazy guys who gives our business a bad name.

Oh, by the way, at least six of the bank board members are in the development game. I’ve personally work with three of them.

ginga1414
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Birdman and Robert W. just one more "Go along to get along."

Jack Smith never fought for this county or for her people. He is all about MONEY. Don't you know that? If Jack can find a loophole when it comes to doing your taxes for the IRS, don't you just know he can find a loophole in all circumstances? Jack and Eric are all about MONEY Just look at their campaign finances.

Brown and McCarty have been running their campaigns on a shoestring and documented FACTS. They both know what it is to fight for something you believe in. They have proven it time and again.

Birdman and Robert W. don't be two more, "GOES ALONG TO GET ALONG."

FOR MORE DOCUMENTED INFORMATION ON THE ISSUES, PLEASE VISIT www.sb4faycom.com and www.allenmccarty.net

VOTE FAYETTE COUNTY! VOTE! This Primary Election is vitally important. That means we have to vote on or before JULY 20TH. DON'T WAIT FOR THE NOVEMBER GENERAL ELECTION. IF WE WAIT UNTIL THEN, IT WILL BE TOO LATE! ADVANCE VOTING BEGAN ON JULY 12TH - JULY 16TH AT THE TYRONE AND PEACHTREE CITY LIBRARIES FROM 8:00 AM - 5:00 PM DAILY. YOU STILL HAVE TIME TO AVOID THE CROWDS.

birdman
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Ok Steve Brown...I'll bite...show me the lies

I'll grant you, I misspoke about the tax. What you proposed was a CID for the Avenue and part of Hwy 54. Even though they could vote on it, it is simply a request for a self imposed tax. For a "no tax" guy, it still raises taxes.

Did the millage rate NOT go from 4.35 to 5.283 during your 4 years?

Do I need to reprint your ENTIRE Letter to the Editor of Oct. 5, 2005?

Did you NOT talk to Weiland Homes about Annexation during and Annexation Moratorium until DirectPac finally asked during a Council Meeting that you hold these meetings officially and in the open?

Did you NOT violate the Ethics Laws? Regardless of the outcome, and I know you claim that the Comcast violation was "not" a violation.

Bottom line Steve is that you DO have a proven record. It's in writing, available for research, and full of lots of bad choices, insults, accusations, attacks on named individuals, etc.

By the way, one quick question, you have always accused others (Lenox for example) and now accuse Smith of "conflict of interest," among other things, all violations of the laws. Why, please tell me why, have you NEVER officially charged ANYONE with ANYTHING including with the Ethics Board. If you knew all you claim to know, then why not simply file the paperwork and get this stuff out in the open and investigated?

Just asking.

Robert W. Morgan
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birdman - yes! Another great history lesson

Direct PAC did chastise Brown - but mostly the other council people for allowing him to be a citizen 1 day, mayor the next. They scheduled a special meeting to discuss this at 7:30 AM on a Saturday morning! I didn't go, but I heard that neither did the press, so the whole thing was swept under the rug as intended by the scheduling.

I do remember seeing Brown's written response that the moratorium (which prevents staff from wasting time talking to developers) did not apply to him because he was not staff - see he was only the mayor - or a private citizen. And you think Jack Smith is conflicted because he is on the board of a developer's bank?

I can't wait until we can explore this tonight at the Rotary Forum.

BTW, every bank chartered in Georgia in the past 10 years could be called a developer's bank - especially using Brown's liberal definition of the word "developer". And many have failed, more will and Brown celebrates this because so-called "evil developers" have lost their investment. Well, so have a lot of retired school teachers, firefighters and police officers thanks to mismanagement at all levels - including government.

ginga1414
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Mudcat, you assume a lot

Did it ever occur to you that you know absolutely nothing about me? You assume that I am "dopey." You assume that I know nothing about the construction, land development or real estate business. I actually thought about informing you of my background. However, I have decided that it isn't worth my effort and you seem to be extremely happy with your assumptions.

ginga1414
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mudcat needs to check the facts

Hey, Mud, have you done your homework? Have you checked the facts? No one should go into the voting booth without first checking the facts.

For factual information, please visit www.sb4faycom.com and www.allenmccarty.net

PLEASE VOTE IN THIS YEAR'S PRIMARY ELECTION! Advance voting began on July 12th - July 16th at the Tyrone and Peachtree City Libraries from 8:00 AM-5:00 PM daily. If you miss those dates, PLEASE VOTE ON JULY 20TH WITHOUT FAIL. That date is the determining factor in this year's election. If you wait until the November General Election, you will be too late to save this county from destruction, mass transit and future SPLOST taxes.

ginga1414
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WAKE UP, MUDCAT

mudcat, have you ever heard the old expression "one hand washes the other?" What about, "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours," I'm sure you've heard that before. It's the same thing. Why do you think that so many people warned Jack Smith about the "conflict of interest" issue?

Please check out all the facts by researching the issues for yourself. For more information concerning Candidates Brown and McCarty visit their websites at www.sb4faycom.com and www.allenmccarty.net.

And, PLEASE whatever you do GO VOTE DURING THE PRIMARY ELECTION. Advance voting began on July 12th - July 16th at the Tyrone and Peachtree City Libraries from 8:00 AM-5:00 PM daily. If you miss those dates, please vote on July 20th without fail. July 20th Primary Election Date is the DETERMINING FACTOR this year. If you wait until the November General Election, it will be too late to save Fayette County from rampant development, mass transit and future SPLOST Resolutions.

NUK_1
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Please post another 10 messages in a few mintues, ginga

Everyone needs to make sure they see your repetitive spam over and over.

TinCan
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Hey NUK, let them alone

Please let ginga, pips, spear, Mr. Bob, et al fire away. They've put so much Brown BS on this site in the past month it's probably a good time to take up organic farming.

Citizen Bob
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TinCan

Just saw your graphic and figured you'd know: isn't the USMC a department within the Navy?

Citizen Bob
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TinCan

Sorry- duplicate post...

mudcat
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There you are ginga - only 1 developer in the whole bunch

and he's a part-time developer in Coweta County. Robert Hancock, attorney and part-time developer.

All the rest are in different professions. Like Steve Brown, you may think everyone is a developer and therefore bad. Wake up call - builders are not developers, members of a trade organization (Midwest Ga HBA) are not developers, bankers are not developers. Neither are property managers known as developers. Oddly enough, not even members of a Development Authority are developers, instead they recruit industry to the area, but they don't actually develop anything.

There have been 5 residential developers in Peachtree City - Garden Cities (and its prdecessors), PCDC (aka pathways), John Wieland, Scott Bradshaw and Terry Foster. Employees of those organizations are not developers. There have been many commercial developers such as RAM and other shopping center developers, but none have ever lived here or been active in local politics or anything else.

Anyone who has ever been in any of these loosly-related business knows all this and that's why Brown's pathetic attempts are met with such derision. He is only showing his ignorance of an industry segment that he despises without actually understanding how things work - sort of like President Obama and his view of banking and health care and now oil.

Courthouserules
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Mud

It can't be covered-up that easily!
When people think that developers, builders, bankers, realtors and some lawyers, part-time developers, and certain trade organizations aren't making money off development then they don't understand how things work!

Even sub-contractors and workers in the industry are sometimes influential in that business.

The start-up of the many banks around here in recent years by a few people with little if any public stock ownership (certainly not a majority in total even) weren't started to sell cars!

Unfortunately, not as many millionaires were made as was intended. A few got out in a timely fashion while a few of the public got sucked in!

Now if anyone here thinks that anyone including those involved cared that many of the loans were not good banking practice, they didn't and they weren't dumb either. A few probably were.

Citizen Bob
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Well, mudcat, you're spot on

... with the Community Organizer's grand scheme to transfer the consequences of people's bad health choices onto others. And a financial overhaul bill that excludes Fannie & Freddie?

Don't anyone tell Obama what comes after a trillion ...

Davids mom
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TRILLION

. . .maybe if someone had given Bush, Cheney and Rove the definition, we wouldn't be in this mess. .. . .just sayin'

Courthouserules
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BOB

You know Bob I remember as a young person some people discussing just how bad the Social Security law was going to be for our survival as a democracy.
Not many years after it's passage, hundreds of "poor houses" were shut down and rotted out by WW2!
Now if you don't know what the poor houses were then I can understand why you and a few others here haven't learned anything from history.
Also, when the children's work laws were passed, that was predicted as surely the end of the known world. Why, 12 year olds couldn't
even mine coal or work in industry 12 hours a day!
Sweat-shops flourished for young girls to sew 12 hours, Six days a week for one penny a garment! Then that mean old government stepped in and ruined a wonderful industry from cotton picked by people who weren't paid at all.
Yep, regulation is a horrible thing.

Citizen Bob
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Courthouserules; is that an indorsement ...

... for forcibly transferring the consequences of individuals' poor lifestyle choices onto others?

Since my earnings will be seized to fund the poor diet choices & lack of exercise of about 60% of Americans, is it now my civic responsibility to call 'em out at the McDonald's line in order to avoid the feds from having to fund their overweight/obesity-related diseases?

Where does this stop? Outlaw sodas, ice cream, fried chicken, & Twinkies? Ban motorcycles & sky-diving?

I much rather prefer freedom to choose and be held responsible for the consequences of my decisions [and I ride a Harley]. Paternalistic nanny-state socialism = trickle up poverty and robbing the human soul of its potential to overcome & triumph.

Courthouserules
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BOB

I thoroughly understand your philosophy of" "if we supply anything to a human that they "maybe" could have worked hard and gotten for them self, then we are destroying the initiative of all in the long run."

That is BS or BC! Too generalized. Some yes, many no.
Don't punish the yes ones for the behavior of the no ones.

I'll just bet "when" you crash that stupid Harley, you will be so happy for health insurance which you wouldn't have unless unions and the government hadn't forced the issue long before you existed!
I have NEVER known anyone who didn't get hurt or killed who rode a motorcycle very much. It is simply a crotch cannon!
However I am not for a law that says you can't ride one, but at least we quit allowing no helmets and producing many, many idiots with brain in juries among us---collecting insurance.

MajorMike
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Court$

There is a huge difference between a crotch rocket and a cruiser and the accident rates that go with each. But.. I'm still waiting for that gubbament/union help paying my insurance premiums or anything else.

ginga1414
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I Have To Set The Record Straight

Another Example of Local Government Abuse and Misrepresentation
I know folks are getting very tired of reading what I write but I just absolutely cannot let this go. In another publication Commission Chairman Jack Smith has tried to answer a question posed by who or whatever. His answer to two questions is the most twisted bit of fabrication that I've ever heard. He has no facts to support the second question, so he just spins whatever he feels should be said. The questions are as follows:

"What's your position on the West Fayetteville Bypass? What is the justification for construction?"

I suppose the answer to the first question is as follows:

"The existing Board is simply charged with a voter MANDATE to implement the voter's wishes from the 2004 SPLOST. The SPLOST legislation has no mechanism for ignoring the voter's wishes and any attempt to circumvent the wishes of a majority of voters is both illegal and unconscionable"

Mr. Smith, it is absolutely "unconscionable" how you shape the facts to fit your wishes.
1. The West Fayetteville Bypass never ever appeared on the 2004 SPLOST Ballot. The only thing that appeared on the 2004 SPLOST Ballot was "Road, street, and bridge purposes." The voters had absolutely no idea that the 2004 SPLOST Ballot included the WFBypass. None of the voters was ever afforded the opportunity of seeing Exhibit B of the SPLOST Resolution. Smith and the other commissioners are the ones who selected the WFB to be funded from all the approved SPLOST projects. They will not consider any of the smaller projects. When asked about this, what they do is compare the WFB to the most expensive version of the East Bypass. There are many other SPLOST projects that are needed and much less expensive.

2. An audience member who attended the Candidate Forum at Christ's Church asked Eric Maxwell a "yes or no legal question." That audience member asked Mr. Maxwell if SPLOST money can be transferred from one SPLOST project to another SPLOST project. Mr. Maxwell's answer was "yes."

3. Mr. Smith said, "There is no other justification necessary," other than the fact that the 2004 SPLOST vote passed, even though by a 1% margin. That is an absolute out and out lie. To cross streams and/or wetlands with a road, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers requires the constructor, under the Clean Water Act, to apply for a 404 Permit. The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers requires, among others, a detailed traffic study justifying the construction of the road. If the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers denies the 404 Permit, the road cannot be constructed. Presently, the county's 404 Permit Application with the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers is being detained by the Corps of Engineers. As we were told by the Corps, the County failed to include all required documentation justifying the building of the road and the hundreds of opposition documents which have been submitted to the Corps requires that each one of those documents be analyzed and evaluated.

4. Mr. Smith said that the Board did not have the power to override state law. There is absolutely no Federal, State, or County law that says the West Fayetteville Bypass or the East Fayetteville Bypass has to be built.

Mr. Smith has a great talent for twisting the truth. He has a great talent for misleading the public. Mr. Smith is NOT this county's friend. Mr. Smith is nothing more than a POLITICIAN. Be ashamed for bending the truth, Mr. Smith. Be ashamed for misleading the citizens, Mr. Smith. I can promise you, Mr. Smith, if you are re-elected to your current commission seat in this county, I will be on you like white on rice. I can promise you that every single time you try to twist the truth, lie or mislead the people of Fayette County, I will be there to set the record straight.

pips1414
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BROWN RIGHT ON BYPASS

I read one comment stating that it was useless to oppose the WFB because it was a done deal. It most assuredly is not a done deal! The county has NOT bought up the WFB property because to build the WFB, a 404 Wetlands Permit is needed under the Clean Water Act, and the county doesn't have one. The WFB will disrupt eight wetland areas and require about $800,000 in mitigation credits. The 404 Permit Application is now bogged down in the Army Corps of Engineers Office with hundreds of complaints and exhibits that must all be examined before the application may be accepted. There is a good chance EPA will get involved with an Environmental Impact Statement that can take years to resolve.

So whether or not you like Steve Brown, he's right about fighting a project that is pure folly, even though the current commissioners won't divert the money to other SPLOST projects. No one in their right mind can believe the WFP can relieve Fayetteville traffic (even if you think we have that much of it) with no connection to Interstate arteries, no return to State 85 or 314, and only two lanes. Should it be built, there needs to be some attraction at the end of it to draw traffic away from Fayetteville. Maybe an amusement park?

When the commissioners were asked to illustrate how the WFB will divert traffic the only answer they gave is that "it's more bang for the buck" than the East Bypass, and "the county engineer told us it was the best route". What they WON'T do is sit down with you and show you on a map how it will save time. That's because the map they would have to show you is almost all developer owned property, and it is WAY OUT OF THE WAY unless you're going nowhere.

So those of you who think it's imminent, get the facts straight before you say it's a done deal. If the Army or EPA doesn't kill the project for lack of serving the public interest, the ensuing lawsuit against the county will.

suggarfoot
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Steve Brown

tells the truth and the others run for cover. Vote for Steve Brown.

borntorun
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Brown/Smith Ying Yanging

Jeez, haven't we beat this dead horse enough? He said this and did that...no he said that and did this....no he said this and did that...no he said that and did this....ad nauseum! At this point no one is going to change their mind about such two polarizing political hacks like Jack Smith and Steve Brown. Move on, people!

Doug
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Didn't you read his post Save Fayette?

It's obvious he said no. The term limits is something I can get behind.

Robert W. Morgan
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Mike, I think Brown eventually said no on district voting

at the end of his diatribe, but for some reason he tied it to term limits. The man cannot answer a simple yes or no question.

Birdman! Congrats on the history of Brown. How quickly some of us forget and in his case we certainly should not. Citizens of Fayette - take the word of the people who know Brown best - the Peachtree City voters (very few of us actually vote, but those that do pay attention) - You don't want this person running anything in your/our government.

ginga1414
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Come on, Save

You know Steve Brown said, "NO" to district voting. You can't get more specific than that.

Please check out all the facts by researching the issues for yourself. For more information concerning Candidates Brown and McCarty visit their websites at www.sb4faycom.com and www.allenmccarty.net.

And, PLEASE whatever you do GO VOTE DURING THE PRIMARY ELECTION. Advance voting began on July 12th - July 16th at the Tyrone and Peachtree City Libraries from 8:00 AM-5:00 PM daily. If you miss those dates, please vote on July 20th without fail. July 20th Primary Election Date is the DETERMINING FACTOR this year. If you wait until the November General Election, it will be too late to save Fayette County from rampant development, mass transit and future SPLOST Resolutions.

Save Fayette
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It sounds like a Yes to Me!!!

Mr. Brown, Everyone in the County votes for there County Commission, even the people who live in the County Cities. This is why you are able to run for County Commissioner because you live in PTC and its an at large election for two County Commissioners. That means the candidate can live anywhere in the county. The reason we have Mayors and City Councils is to represent the citizens of there Cities. Unlike back when you where Mayor, the Cities and then County Commissioners did not see eye to eye.
The Current Board of Commissioners have broken that bad blood between the Cities and County. Read Mayor Ken Steels article in the Fayette News paper today. Also the City of Fayetteville gave the current board of Commissioners a proclamations regarding the corporation between the two and how well they have worked together on projects that benefits both the city and county. Just a few weeks ago the County entered into an agreement with the City of Brooks for water service.
You are wrong in that the Cities do have a voice in the transit plans for Fayette County. In what you are saying is that the Mayors of the cities in the County do not say a thing. If they don’t then shame on them. But I do feel that the current Mayors do talk with the current Commission regarding transportation. How many other elected officials are agreeing with you regarding the waste of money for the current road projects. I have not heard about any of them siding with you. That tells me something.
Peachtree City is not a district, it’s a city. There have been many meeting regarding the transportation plan for Fayette County. Every one in the County had an opportunity to be involved, they even had town hall meetings in PTC. Your letter still sounds like you are for District Voting. A City or a post. District Voting is District Voting.
As far as the County EMS and Fire Services, PTC does have a fire and EMS however they are very limited in man power, City of Fayetteville only provides fire services and the county provides EMS for the City of Fayetteville, Tyron, Brooks and Woolsey relies on the County’s Fire and EMS service. The County also provides the 911 center for all of the County, Cities and the School Board, even the phones in the school buses go straight to the 911 center. So you are very wrong in what you are saying and do not present all the facts.

Don Haddix
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Haddix: Speaking for PTC

The only say we have in the transportation plan is what is contained in the PTC portion. Nothing more. We have no say at all in the County, Fayetteville, etc portions any more than they have say in the PTC portion. There are some in other governments who want TDK and the rail station.

This year the majority of Council approved removal of TDK, the split grade at 74/54 and the rail station from out Industrial Park from our portion of the Transportation Plan.

We asked the County to stop the WBP and redistribute the funds to the cities projects, which is legal. We were told no.

As well the County currently has cut contributions to PTC for Rec, which in trade for County residents were treated as PTC residents on fees and access. So we are going to adjust the fees and accesses to compensate.

Yes, PTC does have its own police and fire. Fire has the best ISO rating in the County and our police are nationally recognized.

I am staying out of the election itself but I cannot stand by and have PTC misrepresented and inaccurate claims presented.

Doug
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Birdman did you read Robert Ross' letter?

My gosh! You guys have got to take a deep breathe and read the things all the way through before you go ranting. It tickles me to no end how plain old Steve Brown scares the poop out of you developer guys.

Here, I'll put a nice short quote for you below:

"While the city could regulate growth along the road within its limits, it had no control over the Coweta County length of the road that abutted the city. Developers quickly saw opportunities to heavily build along the Coweta portion of the road, and Coweta offered no zoning assurances to protect Peachtree City from adjacent overdevelopment.

As a result of those plans, Steve said in a March 2004 letter to the editor, “The creation of the TDK Extension is purely for developmental purposes, not traffic relief,” and in November he called the developer special interest claims of the extension being “a bypass which would reduce traffic on Highway 54” the “relief valve myth.” The Citizen reported the following month that Brown was “vehemently opposed” to moving forward with the TDK Extension."

It's pretty clear Birdman the guy had no choice but to stonewall the road because they were going to kill with the huge developments. Let you hatred of Steve Brown go and let's put a stop to the road to nowhere, MARTA in Fayette County and those stupid sale tax hikes.

ginga1414
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Lies, lies and more lies

Steve Brown is absolutely right. In my opinion, it is lies, lies and more lies. That is all we get from the Smith and Maxwell camps. And, now they are soliciting lies from the County Administrator and the Mayor of Fayetteville.

Please check out all the facts by researching the issues for yourself. For more information concerning Candidates Brown and McCarty visit their websites at www.sb4faycom.com and www.allenmccarty.net.

And, PLEASE whatever you do GO VOTE DURING THE PRIMARY ELECTION. Advance voting began on July 12th - July 16th at the Tyrone and Peachtree City Libraries from 8:00 AM-5:00 PM daily. If you miss those dates, please vote on July 20th without fail. July 20th Primary Election Date is the DETERMINING FACTOR this year. If you wait until the November General Election, it will be too late to save Fayette County from rampant development, mass transit and future SPLOST Resolutions.

Steve Brown
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Birdman, you have some whopping lies in that post big guy

You are really throwing it out there.

By the way The Avenue on Hwy.54-W was constructed during the Lenox administration, quite a while before I was in office. And you cannot do a one-cent sales tax for a shopping center anyway.

ginga1414
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Please excuse the double post

My only explanation is that I am so outraged by our county commissioners lies and twisting of the truth that I can't see straight. Please forgive me! I simply can't take anymore.

ginga1414
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Birdman, Jack Smith Lies

I am sick and tired of all the lies that have been spouted back and forth. Forget the TDK. That is no longer the issue. The issue right now is that Jack Smith mutilates the truth so badly that it becomes an out and out lie. I am sick of listening to Jack Smith and Eric Maxwell twist the facts. Read my latest reply, Birdman. The whole lot of our public officials should be run out of town on their Mass Transit rail or their fabricated facts. I am mad Birdman, Tin Can, Save Fayette and the rest trying to promote a mutilator of the facts and truth.

ginga1414
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To Mudcat From "Dopey"

There has never been a time when I have stooped to calling people names. I don't think you have read my post regarding Mr. Smith's comments. Mr. Smith did say that there was "no other justification necessary," other than the 2004 SPLOST, for building the West Fayetteville Bypass.

That is an out and out lie. I will stand by my statement. As I stated in my post, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers requires an approved 404 Permit application whenever a road is proposed to be built over streams and wetlands. Those facts may be found at the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers under the Clean Water Act. The West Fayetteville Bypass was designed to cross eight (8) streams and wetlands. One of those streams provides drinking water to Fayetteville. That particular fact is exactly why there is a Clean Water Act and that is exactly why the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers requires a complete and approved 404 Permit application. Mudcat, if you care to delve into this matter further, the link you need is www.epa.gov/wetlands/regs/sec404.html. The West Fayetteville Bypass Coalition has on their Board, if you will, a retired biological scientist who was in charge of implementing the 404 Permit for the Federal Government. The man is an absolute expert in his field.

At no time did I address any other matter in my post regarding the fact that Mr. Smith said there was "no other justification necessary," other than the 2004 SPLOST passage, for building the West Fayetteville Bypass. There absolutely is other "justification" required for building the West Fayetteville Bypass. The required "justification" for building the West Fayetteville Bypass is a complete and approved 404 Permit application. It is a fact. That is the Federal Law. The Federal Clean Water Act most certainly circumvents the passage of Fayette County's 2004 SPLOST.

In regard to your statements concerning Jack Smith's involvement with the Bank of Georgia, Mr. Smith spoke of percentage points pertaining to the Bank's involvement with developers. However, in this very paper archive.thecitizen.com/node/38509 Bank of Georgia CFO Lynn Gable and Bank of Georgia President Pat Shepherd said, "the BOG loan business was geared primarily to support the front-end of the building and construction industry in Fayette and Coweta counties rather than the back end where hoome mortgages are puchased." Also listed in the same article, you will find the Bank of Georgia board of directors which includes:

Pat Shepherd - BOG president, 30 years in banking and former board member of sales and marketinig of the Mid-West Georgia homebuilders Assoc. -- Donnie H. Russell - owner and president of manufactured housing sales company Parham Industries, Inc., director and part-owner of manufactured home production company Signal Homes and an organizer and director of Fayette County Bank and Atlanta's Commerce Bank -- Charles R. Ogletree ( no information provided) -- Malcolm R. Godwin - served in the financial industry since 1977 at Wachovia Bank, Peachtree National Bank, Fayette County Bank and at BOG as executive vice president. -- Arlie C. Aukerman - former chairman and president of construction firm A.C. Aukerman and former Fayette County Bank director -- Jack Smith - Fayette County Commission Chairman and certified public accountant -- Thomas G. Sellmer - former owner of real estate management and investment company Sellmer Property Management and former vice president of Southern Screen & Embroidery, Inc. -- Vincent M. Rossetti - president of Raven Homes, Inc., manager of real estate and office management firm MiRome, LLC, served on the board of Peachtree Regional Hospital, former president of Mid-West Georgia Home builders Assoc. -- William R. Hancock, Jr. - partner in Glover & Davis law firm in Newnan, partner in real estate firm F&H Investment, former advisory board member of First Union National Bank, former chairman of Newnan Development Authority -- Rick A. Duncan - more than 25 years in banking, current BOG executive vice president and senior loan officer -- Board Chairman Enrico A. Stanziale - former owner and president of chemical resistant coatings manufacturer Amacor, Inc. and former chairman of Fayette County Bank

mudcat
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Lies ginga1414? You dopey Brown supporter- read the facts

The facts from Jack Smith in his letter about his so-called "developer's bank" Facts, figures and %'s. Good stuff.

The facts in Birdman's first post about Brown's last 3 elections. Facts, figures and %'s. Seems like Mr. Brown hasn't gotten out of the 20%-29% range the last 3 times he ran for anything. I do think the runoff results against Logsdon are particularly interesting. Logsdon (who by the way was only 1 of 2 candidates supported by Direct PAC) was not that great, but how can you analyze those numbers and come to any other conclusion that the majority of the voters have a default position - anybody but Brown.

You can jump in any time, ginga1414 and dispute these facts, but do so with other facts - or if you are feeling especially frisky - present alternative figures and %'s and back them up with facts. Good luck with that.

Sure, Brown has his supporters (about 200) and he draws some votes from people meeting him for the first time - and especially newcomers to PTC who have not lived under his childish attempts to micromanage PTC. But all these combined never get beyond the 20%-29% range. Nor will they this time. Save your energy and we will count the votes in a few weeks. I'm guessing the extremely low turnout will give his 200 supporters (and the others he has duped a pretty high % of the actual total, so I'll predict 28% Brown, 62% Smith and 10% Mickey Mouse.

doright
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Mickey Mouse

How bad would Mickey be, we already have Bozo the clown as a commissioner chairman.

RWM- I think you will be in the minority when it is all said and done.

GIVE JACK SMITH THE BOOT! He is not right for Fayette County!

Robert W. Morgan
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28% for Brown? I think not.

Maybe 1/2 of that - even with a low turnout. As I have said before, we voters are not stupid, just apathetic. We do get motivated when an emergency comes up and keeping Steve Brown at home is a real priority for most of us (as in the overwhelming majority of voters).

Yes, I'm going with 14% for Brown - or does he get credit for the Mickey Mouse votes as well?

mudcat
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double post

don't know how that happened

birdman
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Doug...Yes I read his letter....did you read mine?

Come on Doug, Robert Ross claimed that Brown always opposed TDK:

"Steve said in a March 2004 letter to the editor, “The creation of the TDK Extension is purely for developmental purposes, not traffic relief,” and in November he called the developer special interest claims of the extension being “a bypass which would reduce traffic on Highway 54” the “relief valve myth.” The Citizen reported the following month that Brown was “vehemently opposed” to moving forward with the TDK Extension."

Here is his direct quote from his own letter on Oct. 5,2005, 19 months LATER:

"Our current council was the only one that actually programmed funds in the city’s budget for TDK."

Hardly "opposition," but taking credit for moving the project forward!

Brown flip-flops like a kite in the wind. You can vote for him or not, I really don't care. But his record stands. You merely have to research it. When he and his supporters such as Ross credit him with a stance that he clearly took, then didn't, then did, then didn't, he needs to be held accountable. After all he is demanding that Smith be held accountable, and rightly so. Problem with Brown is he is first to scream "accountability" for his opponent, but last to accept accountability for himself.
If I wrote this letter about Smith you would be heralding me not attacking me.

By the way, as for "stupid sales taxes," ask Steve about his proposal as Mayor for a Special Sales Tax for the Avenue in Peachtree City. That's right, he wanted a 1 cent sales tax for the Avenue. Then Councilwoman McMenamin voted no so then Rep. Cathy Cox refused to approach the State Legislature. Brown was livid (how dare anyone cross him) and stated that McMenamin was "not a team player," and went after Rep. Cox with a vengence including a letter to Airport Manager DeCostis supporting him after Rep. Cox went after Hartsfield over the spillage of anti-icing fluid into our water source, the Flint River (remember that?). Brown supported the polluter of our water source rather than demand cleanup and prevention. Now THAT'S supporting our people.
So don't think Brown means "no taxes." During his 4 years the millage rate in Peachtree City rose approximately 21%, from 4.35 to 5.283. Hardly holding down our taxes.

Now I know you see this as a personal attack, but Browns fiscal policy as Mayor is an issue that I believe will follow him as a Commissioner. It IS an issue. Browns violation of the Ethics Laws shows his lack of knowledge or integrity. This is a proven record and issue that will follow him as a Commissioner. Browns flip flop on TDK is on the record and shows how his stance can change at a whim. This is of issue and will follow him as Commissioner. Brown's anti-annexation stance followed by his quiet negotiation with Wieland Homes during an annexation moratorium is on the record and an issue that will follow him as Commissioner.

Is Smith any better? That is personal opinion. But in any discussion of Smith waffling on issues, must include Brown's record of waffling on issues. If you are only going to attack Smith for his inconsistency and changes, then you must be willing to discuss the record of his attacker. Brown has a four year proven record. It just isn't what he claims it to be.

So, yes I did read Ross's letter. Did you read mine?
If you love Brown, so be it, it's America. But get ready for the results of your actions. They are already on the record in PTC.

Citizen Bob
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Birdman, let me correct ...

... the first line of your post above. My original LTE did not claim that candidate always opposed TDK, but that "On Feb 7, 2003, then-Mayor Steve Brown signed the TDK Boulevard Extension Agreement with the Fayette County Commission, agreeing to extend that road “to promote adequate and safe means of transportation” and committing the city to a $200,000 contribution."

"The facts ma'am, just the facts..."

birdman
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Brown...TDK....DAPC

Just have to weigh in. In 2001 Brown's campaign website had a section entitled: "TDK Not Now, Not Ever." In 2005 while running for reelection, Brown wrote a letter to the editor in the Oct.5,2005 Citizen entitled: "Consider what record shows about council’s TDK extension decisions." It is available in the archives....Look it up. But here are some exerpts from Browns own letter:

"It is time to correct all of the misinformation related to the TDK extension road project. I am citing all references and I urge to you check them....The TDK project had been talked about for decades prior but the City Councils failed to act....'Brown said he had no problem with the TDK Boulevard project'...'He said funding for the project was the number one concern'...Our current council was the only one that actually programmed funds in the city’s budget for TDK..... 'Brown said there was not a person on Council against TDK,” (Council Minutes, Jan. 2, 2003)."

As I said this letter by Brown is in the archives. I urge you to read it yourself and ask yourself if this is consistent with Brown's 2001 campaign pledge or with the comments from Robert Ross? In fact DUE to Brown we came most closely to the TDK Extension, not the blocking of it.

As for the DAPC, Brown instituted an expensive "special prosecutor" to investigate the contract. It found NO legal issues, some errors, but no legal problems or intentional wrongdoing. So Brown had to take another tact to get rid of the "evil" DAPC. He finally got rid of the members, appointed his own people, then unfunded the Authority and defaulted on the loan. The original terms of the loan were to be paid back by Hotel/Motel taxes. NO money from the local residents. After default the bank threatened to sue. When Logsden inherited the legal problems he settled the case with TAXPAYER money. Thanks to Brown the loan payback came from us, not the visitors who stayed in the hotels and motels. And in the process Brown turned our World Class Tennis Center (a great source of tourist revenue) into a No Class Tennis Center that brings little or nothing to our economy.

Those are the facts. They are verifiable, I challenge you to look them up.
But here is the most telling fact. After 4 years of Mayor, PTC was so "enamored" with Brown that in a 5 person election he received 1620 votes out of 7446 cast. That is 21.6%. Logsden received 3120 or 41.9%. In the runoff Brown received 1806 votes out of 6042 votes or 29.3%. Logsden received 4228 votes or 70.7%. But also quite telling is that 6042 people turned out on Dec.9,2005, on a cold day, closing in on Christmas, to boot Brown out of office. He only picked up 186 votes of the other candidates where Logsden picked up 1108 votes. That should speak volumes of his leadership abilities.

If Brown was that good, why was he resoundingly defeated as an incumbent and why was he resoundingly defeated by Ramsey by a margin of 53.35% to 24.6% or
1925 votes to 888 (over 2 to 1)?

I am not a fan of Smith. But I know what Brown will bring to our Commission. Vote as you will, but know what you will get.

Steve Brown
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Mike K -I got a better way to remove entrenched special interest

Mike - I answered Save Fayette on the same question in another blog, but I will copy it here for you also. I appreciate your concern and asking the question. Have a great summer.

My original thought on district voting was the citizens residing in our cities were not being adequately represented at the county level. The majority of the population in Fayette County lives in cities. There were several problems, chief amongst them city dwellers were being taxed by the county for services they were not receiving.

Even my opponent, the incumbent, agreed the problem existed, and did make one moderate change by making the necessary legislative adjustments so that Peachtree City residents no longer had to pay for county fire and EMS services which were not provided within the city limits. (Note: A reversal occurred when the County Commission approved the 2009 SPLOST referendum asking for countywide sales taxes to pay for new county fire and EMS infrastructure. The SPLOST failed handily.)

At the time, I told the Fayette County Republican committee when I ran against Matt Ramsey that I was willing to see a district voting measure, allowing cities (a majority of the population) to have sufficient representation on the Fayette County Board of Commissioners as a voter referendum ballot initiative, letting the voters decide. Problems such as Commissioner Smith’s 2008 vote on including Fayette County in the regional mass transit plan need to be addressed somehow. The City Council of Peachtree City would never consent to the city being used as a mass transit hub as stated in the plan Commissioner Smith ratified. If there was a representative voted on solely by the voters of a Peachtree City district, there would most likely be more of a fight against the mass transit plan than what we have experienced with all four of Commissioner Smith’s colleagues doing absolutely nothing to reverse the move toward Peachtree City and Fayetteville becoming transit hubs. (And if you do not think the transit buses are coming, it is time to wake up.) The citizens of Tyrone, Fayetteville and Brooks would have had someone protecting them from county level neglect as well.

Today, with the advent of the Tea Party movement and cries for major change from “government as usual,” which certainly perked my interests, we may end up with a more representative government anyway. Entrenched incumbents are being voted out all over the country.

My new solution for keeping entrenched special interests and their politicians out of the common good’s way is to change the county’s charter to include term limitations for all elected county commission posts. I believe term limitations will accomplish the same goal and be more universally accepted.

So I think a term limitation set at two terms would be just as effective and there would be no need to consider district voting. I have run this idea by a couple of hundred voters and they love the idea.

doright
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Head the warning SB

SB-

You stop listening to the people and start putting your own interest above this county's then you will get the BOOT just like Jack Smith will get this election cycle.

Be conservative with our money, we work hard for it.

mbest
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Head the warning?

Is that like a gay version of "heed the warning?"

Mike King
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OK Stevie....

Are you or are you not an advocate of district voting as before? No spin, no drivel, just yes or no.

But I will give you credit, for an Obama minded Democrat, you have made in roads into Fayette County politics.

Spear Road Guy
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Have2Wonder The New Jack Smith Lackey, Again!!!

You made a lot of accusations, but you didn't back it up like Robert Ross did in his letter here.

The Jack Smith people just keep slinging that mud!!!

Can you say R-O-A-D T-O N-O-W-H-E-R-E ???

Can you say take the B-U-S T-O C-L-A-Y-T-O-N C-O-U-N-T-Y ???

doright
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Can you say..

I love pot smoking commissioners? That is what Jack Smith says and that is why we need to give him THE BOOT!

We need someone who listens to their constituents, who has a SPINE, and who knows how to be conservative with our hard earned paychecks.

BYE BYE JACK, I HOPE YOU NEVER COME BACK!

Have2Wonder
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Brown Wrong So Often

Though Brown may have been right on occassion, is it worth the price. Whenever he claims to be right, it requires his condemnation of 10 others in the community. While the current mayor is still exempt from attack (for reasons we all are aware of), according to Brown every other mayor was an evildoer out to get the citizenry. Along the way, all of the businesses were negative and the volunteers were inept if not corrupt. He also pulled the rug out from under the PTCDA and then started asking questions about why they could not repay PTCDA debt. Why would we want this non-leader to be in office again? I, for one, have enjoyed seeing professional interaction between local governments and community organizations and want that to continue. He lost legal contests (and the associated legal fees) at every corner and is the only one in this race convicted of an ethics violation. I have to wonder why he thinks we have all forgotten so soon? Or maybe he just hopes enough new people have moved in since he left and they will vote him in?

johenry
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Did you read the letter?

Here's the part of the Robert Ross letter that answers your PTCDA question.

Following Brown’s efforts, The Citizen editor Cal Beverly said in an in-depth November 2005 public blog that “Those community leaders ran the old DAPC out of their back pockets. They kept precious few records, despite being required to by state law. Several of them served on the board of directors of either a lending bank or a bidding contractor.”

Beverly condemned the DAPC’s performance saying, “If they had performed the same way on their day jobs, they would have been justifiably terminated.” He concluded, “There is no recorded vote on more than a million dollars in loans to the DAPC. There’s no paperwork financial trail to determine where that money went. How can any reasonable person praise this old board?”

Many of the people who defended the DAPC were mortified to learn that three of the DAPC members were on the board of directors of the bank issuing under-the-table high interest, short-term loans to the DAPC.

ginga1414
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Fore more information

For more information, please go to www.sb4faycom.com and www.allenmccarty.net

CCB
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Brown's got a pretty good web site

But the videos took a long time to set up on my computer. You ought to try putting them on Youtube.

pips1414
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Steve Brown Really Is RIght

Steve Brown is right on the money in opposing the West Fayetteville Bypass. Commissioner Eric Maxwell has previously stated at the recent Town Hall Meeting at Christ's Church that Steve Brown voted for it. Everybody I know that voted for SPLOST in 2003 voted for it. That's because it was identified on the 2003 SPLOST ballot as "road, street and bridge purposes,not as a bypass. Since it had been disguised by the commissioners, we were blindsided when we found out it was going through our yard. What Mr. Maxwell fails to tell us is that the WFB SPLOST funds could be reappropriated to other SPLOST projects. But the only comparison he makes is to a $60 million version of the East Fayetteville Bypass when there are numerous other projects listed that could benefit the county much more. Neither Mr.Smith nor Mr.Maxwell have ever shown the people of Fayette County just how the bypass system will work. They can't explain why it ends where nobody is going, and simply say that the county engineer says the WFB is the best bang for the buck in comparison to the EFB, but any possible reconsideration of funding ends there.

Jack Smith is constantly taking credit for what other people do. Most recently, he has said that Fayette County has achieved notable recognition "under his watch." For example, our Fayette County Fire & Emergency Services Group have been recognized for care of heart attack victims. As a consequence, ours is the only EMS in Metro Atlanta with the authority to directly admit cardiac patients to Piedmont Hospital's Cardiac Cath Lab without being seen by an emergency room physician. To my way of thinking, the folks in the Fire & Emergency Services group should have been getting the credit instead of Jack Smith. It goes without saying that anything good or bad that happened during his tenure of office happened under his watch, and it appears only logical that the firefighters, themselves, should get this credit. It is certainly questionable how much expertise Mr. Smith would need to have in terms of supervising EMS technicians.

And blaming Mr. Brown for the TDK when he took a stand against it is hitting below the belt. When Mr. Brown became aware that a huge development would wreak havoc with Peachtree City traffic, he personally stonewalled the project, and thanks to Steve Brown, the project got stopped.

Mr. Smith still has not shown the public how Fayette County will be better off as a result of his voting in favor of the MARTA plan whose tentacles extend deeply into Fayette County, or why he has never gone on record as voting against MARTA. Steve Brown attempted to locate records supporting Mr. Smith's contention that he objected to some of MARTA's proposals, but could not find any. Mr. Smith should find them and photostat them publicly to clear the air.

ginga1414
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Amen, johenry

Steve Brown took a lickin' and (fortunately for the people of Fayette County) kept on tickin'. And you are right again about Steve Brown's character. Folks of less character and courage would have thrown in the towel long ago, especially after all the nay saying he has received.

If Steve Brown had not been able to stand up for his convictions when it came to the TDK Extension, Peachtree City would not just have traffic, Peachtree City would be a sea of cars. Steve's courage in the face of adversity and his insight into developers are just a few of the reasons he should have our votes.

When Jack Smith was asked why he voted for the ARC's Transportation Plan that included bringing MARTA/mass transit into Fayetteville and Fayette County, he answered that he was "just one voice" on the ARC Transportation Board. He said that he "fought like a dog" to keep mass transit out of Fayette County. Well, even though he was only one voice, he could have had the courage to stand-up for Fayette County. He could have voted "NO." But, he didn't vote "NO". He voted "YES". He said that he "fought like a dog", but he still voted "YES."

I do not admire nor do I trust anyone who says one thing and does something else. To my way of thinking, when someone is in charge of making decisions that will affect the lives of over a hundred thousand citizens, they had better have the courage to stand by their convictions. That is why I will vote for Steve Brown. He has that kind of courage. I have seen the establishment and developers slap him down and he just gets back up and goes on fighting. That is character. That is courage. That is the kind of person I trust.

Steve has the intelligence to see what building the West Fayetteville Bypass will do to the county. He has the intelligence to see that it is nothing but a developer driven project. Anyone and everyone who has seen the map and all the developers along the bypass can see that. Anyone who sees our basically empty Rivers Elementary School sitting in the middle of the WFB and in the middle of 8 huge tracts of developer land can see the planning that has gone on behind closed doors. A lot of folks saw it but Steve is one of the few to have the courage to speak out for the future. He cared enough to thoroughly investigate the tell tale signs about Jack Smith and mass transit.

ginga1414
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Nuk, would rather settle?

So, Nuk, would you rather settle for someone who says one thing and does something else? Would you rather settle for someone who has been proven to fudge the truth when they are backed into a corner or would you rather have someone who will have the courage to stand up and tell it like it is?

I may not like everything that all officials do, but I would much rather have someone with character and courage. I have seen our current officials belittle folks. They have publicly said one thing and all the while they were doing just the opposite. Steve Brown gives the facts and backs up those facts with documentation we can all see.

Eric Maxwell publicly said at the Christ's Church Candidate Forum that the West Fayetteville Bypass would cost "on the low side $24,000,000 and on the high side $28,000,000." He said that the East Fayetteville Bypass would cost "$60,000,000." However, I have seen documentation where the West Fayetteville Bypass will cost $50,000,000 to $51,000,000. Can they explain the discrepancy? They don't explain the discrepancy.

In case you are interested, Nuk, there are videos on YouTube of the Christ's Church Candidate Forum. You just go to YouTube and type in DBarlow777.

I was watching several videos on YouTube concerning our current commissioners, and one of those videos dealt with our current commissioners amending records to coverup the fact that they held a meeting without the presence of an attorney. When that fact was brought to the attention of the Attorney General, the Attorney General stated that the our commission had broken the law.

I watched another video on YouTube where former commissioner Rick Price was voicing his concern over the fact that our present commissioners have changed the procedure for announcing the subject of forthcoming Public Agenda with respect to commission meetings. Apparently, in the past the Public Agenda was announced a week in advance to give the public a chance to prepare for the meeting. However, it seems that our current commissioners have changed the process when it comes to controversial matters that might be on the Agenda. They don't announce the subject Agenda until the meeting and it is done "orally."

I have personally watched as several very respectful citizens were shouted at, escorted (in a threatening manner) from the podium, and/or belittled when they were trying to voice an opinion the current commissioners did not like. One of those citizens was shouted at by the Commission Chairman when he just wanted a group of citizens to very quietly and quickly stand for one brief second so that the Commission might see how many people were in opposition to the matter. I have read through the minutes of that commission meeting and there is nothing in there that indicates that Chairman Smith shouted at the citizen speaker and the group who just wanted to stand. The minutes of that meeting state that the citizen wanted his group to stand but the minutes don't reflect the fact that Chairman Smith shouted at the citizen speaker and his group. There was absolutely no call for the manner in which those citizens were treated.

Nuk, I just am so tired of having folks sweep things under the rug. I am tired of settling for the good-old-boy establishment. I'm tired of it, Nuk. I'm tired of being used and abused by public officials. I'm tired of having public officials tell me one thing and then finding out they have done just the opposite of what they said they had done. Nuk, to me, that is lying. I'm tired of it and I'm not willing to take it anymore!

Steve Brown
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Nuk_1, It's about the issues

Where do you stand on the issues? Character assassination is not going to work this time around. Any time you feel ready to discuss the issues: West Fayetteville Bypass, 2009 SPLOST, Smith's mass transit vote, Smith's board of directors position with the developer's bank (Bank of Georgia), just let us know.

Have2Wonder
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Brown Wrong on his own splost

If a pre-condition of election is predicting how the public will vote on splost, Mr. Brown, you are ineligible as well. You opposed the trasportation splost and the voters approved it. You consistently support the mayor of PTC who strongly wants a debt-splost which is the same concept as that proposed by the county commission and yet you haven't taken aim at his position yet. Worst part of it is your opposition to the transportation splost cost PTC and Fayette at least $4 million, which could be helping PTC to minimize the financial crisis they are in today. The voters saved us from the wrong splost of 2009, but you failed to see the need for a funded transportation plan long ago and then cost the county at least $2mil of money that would have come in from outside the county this year. I am just hoping the voters don't give you the chance to cost us even more in the future.

ginga1414
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Save Fayette

The whole with the 2009 SPLOST was the fact that our commissioners had the audacity to even suggest that Fayette County citizens should be strapped with yet another tax when we were just about to have that weight lifted after 5 years. That doesn't even address the fact that folks are losing their homes right and left to foreclosure. The 2009 SPLOST was nothing more than a slap in the face for our citizens. It was an insult. It showed Fayette County citizens that Jack Smith and the other commissioners have absolutely no respect for "the people," but we already knew that.

That same lack of respect and lack of caring are the reasons Jack Smith and Eric Maxwell find themselves dealing with great opposition. They have shown their true colors.

Save Fayette
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Brown answer the questions!!!

Brown answer the questions!!!

Who are the developers that you are talking about. You keep saying that Jack and Eric are both working with developers. Brown Who are they.
I think its just another empty lie that you keep saying.

Why do you keep bring up the 2009 SPLOST vote. Jack Smith was not the only elected official that was in favor of putting a SPLOST vote on the ballot. The citizens did not want it and voted no. The End of it.

Are you in favor of District Voting?? I think the citizens of Fayette County need to know this.

Robert W. Morgan
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And answer these 4 questions too, Mr. Brown

1. After you are done explaining how you don't actually know anything about Jack Smith's "Developer Bank" try and refute Jack's analysis of the directors, loans and customers published in today's paper. Tell us where he is factually wrong. Use %'s and number - kinda like he did. Facts, Mr. Brown. Not rhetoric and mudslinging.
2. District voting? What is good about it? For you and for us. Tell us. Be specific.
3. Sure enough, you are right on many issues and you probably care about the county, but surely you recognize what a terrible leader you are and how difficult it is for other (real) leaders to take you seriously and get along with you - and you with them. With all that in mind, why are you seeking the office of Fayette County Commissioner? For you? Or for us - the citizens and taxpayers?
4. And finally the West Fayette Bypass. They are building the stupid thing, don't you know. What good does it do to oppose something that is pretty much a done deal? What are you going to do - tear it up and give the property back to the rightful owners? This is not a real campaign issue - it is mudslinging about past decisions. Want to bring all your past decisions as "mayor" into this discussion?

4 questions. Need 4 answers.

Doug
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Nuk_1 makes 3 - didn't you read the letter either?

Robert Ross is quoting the Newnan Time-Herald for goodness sake! Talking about conspiracy theories. Do you think the newspaper people from Newnan blaming Brown for killing TDK were wrong too?

Stop smoking that stuff! There are so few brain cells left.

"The Newnan Times-Herald editorial board, in a December 2004 issue, compared Brown to Alabama Governor George Wallace standing in the doorway blocking integration while saying he was the “lone holdout in the new road talks.”

"Former mayors of Peachtree City and the leadership of the Chamber of Commerce all lambasted Brown for taking a stand against the TDK Extension. By October of 2005, Brown’s predecessor, a very frustrated Bob Lenox, said that everyone from Congressman Lynn Westmoreland down to every local councilperson knew Brown “personally stonewalled this [TDK] project.”
Lenox continued, “It is not often in government that you can clearly find the culprit when things go wrong, but in this case every one of us who has worked for years to make TDK Boulevard a reality knows that Steve Brown stopped it.”

Harold Logsdon campaigned in favor of the TDK Extension and displaced Brown as mayor in 2004. Soon, however, after massive development plans were filed in Coweta, groups like the Peachtree City Civic Association joined in the movement to kill the expansion, and by June of 2007, the road project was officially dead and Fayette County returned the $200,000 to the city.

In the January 2008 PTC Update newsletter, Mayor Harold Logsdon, an enthusiastic supporter of the extension said, “Two years ago I campaigned on the need for TDK.” He continued, “Well, the situation changed with the proposed massive development on our border, so I changed my position. Completing the TDK is not in the best interest of PTC and I don’t see that changing anytime soon."

It ain't rocket science Nuk_1. He was right and he did a good thing. So get over it.

NUK_1
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Duh DOug

Why not read Steve Brown's own comments published in The Citizen about TDK instead of someone else's opinion letter? Birdman was nice enough to reference that letter for about the 50th time here and maybe this time some more people will actually read and remember it instead of remembering past history as it didn't happen.

Brown changed his mind on the road twice. In the end, about everyone was in agreement that TDK needed to die and it did.

NUK_1
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Here's the issues I totally disagree with you, Steve

A) The TDK flip-flop-flip you did, going from totally against, to taking credit for it, to once again being totally against.

B) The Westside flip-flop-flip you did, going from very vocally against it as a non-elected average resident to then being part of a Council-led moratorium on even discussing such issues, to then you as "Citizen Steve" talking to Weiland about Westside annexation, of course, only as a "citizen." That was ridiculous.

C) Being the only person on council in favor of rezoning the Lutheran church at 54/Peachtree Parkway into Wal-Green's. I don't know of hardly anyone in PTC besides SOME9not all) of the Lutheran church congregation that thought that followed any land use plan of PTC or was in the spirit of what PTC tries to accomplish.

D) Being very vocally in favor of district voting and criticizing Fayette Co over not having it, despite the fact that the city you were Mayor of didn't either and you seemingly forgetting that part.

E) Accusing a whole lot of people of criminal wrong-doing when that has never been shown to be factual. All that did was turn PTC into a joke that made headlines from your bombastic mud-slinging.

F) While being Mayor, you and Council decided that suddenly the City needed a 100K + assistant city manager in the form of Colin Halterman, Public Works Director. This was after your appointed City Manager who had a mediocre career in Fulton County, Bernie, told the Council within the first month of accepting this position that it was too much for him alone. UGH.

G) Your constant whining about "developer conspiracies" and how everyone who is against you is tied to development. BS, BS, BS. There aren't that many developers around to have voted against you in the large margins that you lost by.

H) I believe you are a member/honoree/donator of the NAACP. I am totally against the NAACP and think it's a relic of the past that is a hindrance to any progress at all in race relations.

Look, Jack Smith is part of the problem, but I don't see you as part of the solution either. I'm either not voting in this race or writing in someone else because I think the choice of Brown or Smith is appalling.

CCB
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Hutch 866 twisting the issue

I was for the TDK to Coweta for business reasons. I might have been able to get some of the contracts out there. That being said, Hutch is twisting the truth.

I know for a fact that Steve Brown tried to work with Mutt Hunter over in Coweta to solve some of the traffic problems and Mutt kept wanting build a million sq ft shopping center next to TDK. I don't begrudge him for fighting that kind of stuff because it would make things so bad we would drown in traffic. I don't begrudge him for fighting the West Fayetteville Bypass and mass transit in Fayette County either. I'm cheering him on.

Some of you guys have too much ego to just agree to disagree with Steve Brown on certain issues. But he's been right a lot more times than he's been wrong. No body questions his love for the county and wanting to do right by it. I've disagreed with Steve Brown on occasion, but I'm not ignorant enough to blindly follow Jack Smith off a cliff. And you had better watch out Hutch because that first step behind Smith is a long one.

hutch866
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CCB

Maybe you need to read my whole post fool.Show me where I said anything about TDK. I never said I was for Jack Smith, of course if you can prove me a liar, by all means go ahead. In my post I said they're both wrong for the office, but you go ahead and make up what you want, just be careful that when Little Stevie sits down he doesn't sit on your head. BTW, prove me wrong about anything I said in my post, just one thing will do, otherwise I guess you're the liar.

hutch866
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Steve

Let's talk about some of your prior statements made in your newspaper column, you know where you were so upset that Coweta Co. people drove through PTC, yet the PTC people going through Fairburn on their way to I-85 was no problem. Lets talk about how in just one column you said that the Fayetteville people never voted, YET, you blamed the transportation SPLOST on the Fayetteville voters. Which was it Steve? Can you have it both ways? The 2009 SPLOST is old news, as long as I get to vote on things like that I have no problem with them being raised. Now this part is only my opinion, but I believe that you are so very wrong for the entire county, Jack Smith is so very wrong for the county. The sad part of it is that we have no one to vote for in this race. WRITE IN ANYONE PEOPLE, OTHER THEN THESE TWO. I call a DO OVER. I'm announcing a write in campaign for Cyclist. He's a fair and trustworthy man. Write in Cyclist on your ballot.
Now Steve I know you won't answer this, you haven't answered any of the other posts I made, I'm not sure if it's because I don't agree with you or if it's because I don't live in PTC, they seem to be the only ones you answer. So be it.

NUK_1
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Cyclist? Good choice!

No way in hell I am voting for either Brown or Smith, so Cyclist gets my vote too. I might even be persuaded to go with Bonkers over Smith/Brown also.

Cyclist
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Nuk and hutch,

Hello from I75 near Cordele. Guys thanks for the nod but I'm terrible at playing Sim City.
Those little sim people seem to always want to revolt against me.

hutch866
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Careful Nuk

I twist the truth according to CCB. We can elect Bonker$, but I don't think we can afford all the nameplates it would take for his desk.

doright
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And more

Steve,

And lets not forget that Jack is the one that NEVER would call out his pot smoking commissioner, Horgan. Instead he sat their spineless as one after another resident called for Horgan to step down.

Jack is no leader and he does not have Fayette's best interest in mind.

GIVE JACK THE BOOT! GOOD BYE JACK AND GOOD RIDDANCE!!