Woman attacked, robbed at Fayette Pavilion

Robbery suspect, wearing a baseball cap with red to orange trimming, is at lower right, walking away from security camera. Photo/Fayetteville Police Department.

Fayetteville Police are looking for a suspect who attacked a Fayetteville woman Saturday morning in the parking lot of the Kohl’s department store located at the Fayette Pavilion.

The April 27 incident occurred at approximately 10:07 a.m. as the customer exited her vehicle and walked towards the door, said Det. Mike Whitlow.

Whitlow said the woman was approached by a black male, 16-20 years of age, 5’7”-5’9” in height and a very thin build. The man was wearing black pants, a black shirt over a red shirt, black shoes and a black baseball cap with a red bill and logo, Whitlow added.

Whitlow said the man grabbed the victim by the collar and threw her to the ground. He then took her purse and fled, running north through the Kohl’s parking lot toward Pavilion Parkway. The victim suffered injuries to her arm and neck. She was treated at the scene by paramedics, said Whitlow.

The incident at Kohl’s was captured on store video and the suspect was seen walking in the store prior to the robbery, Whitlow said.

Fayetteville Police and Fayette County deputies searched the area but were unable to locate the suspect. Fayetteville Police believe he may have had a vehicle waiting in the Dick’s parking lot and may have tried to rob someone there a few minutes before he walked to Kohl’s, Whitlow said.

Anyone with information is urged to contact Det. Mike Whitlow at 770-461-4441.

Below are composite security camera shots of the suspect.

NUK_1
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kc: Yeah, I failed

It's either all about race or someone else mentioning race and how terrible they are for saying something like that when the other person known as DM is completely fixated on nothing but race.

Just best for me to ignore that BS, and I didn't, and responded. My FAIL.

Davids mom
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NUK -

I never figured you as one who ignored facts. Yes - I have discussed 'race'. And yes, I certainly have a different perspective than some contributors to the Citizen. However, I have posted on other subjects - and discussed these subjects with those who viewed my perspective on other venues.

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kcchiefandy
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No worries, NUK...

...you're a valued and respected member of this blogosphere.

meanoldconservatives
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NUK.....I can help you with this one

"Why do you make every discussion into a racial argument?

It usually goes like this: "There must be something wrong with your reading comprehension. I stated here x years ago when I joined this blog that I was here to discuss race.....blah, blah, blah."

What she fails to go on and say is "I see race in everything, so should you. There is race in a rainbow, there is race in dark clouds and white clouds, there is race in night and day, there is even race in my Raisin Bran every morning....."

I noticed a sign on the square today advertising an art show coming soon. I'm guessing there will be a report out afterwards about how whitey was reacting to "people of color".

Davids mom
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NUK

I'm so sorry. I had mentioned Country Lakes as an example of a 'black' community here in Fayette County. You responded to my comment. There is no argument is there? Aren't your comments honest about the development ?

I said:

Quote:

Just visit Country Lakes. Clayton County is history.

Nuk said:

Quote:

Country Lakes has done well in maintaining its home values and that is no doubt a testament to the homeowners there

Now really, you didn't think that I was referring to Country Lakes as a black community? Wow! A whole community remained unseen in Fayette County. Interesting.

Point: Stop trying to paint all blacks as not maintaining the property value of their homes. Those who have pride in their property maintain it. Those who have no pride or no training do not. There are some who have never experienced the pride of ownership . I've been in white, black, purple communities where that is evident. A lot has to do with ones income, education, and home training.

PTC Observer
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DM - Sorry

I thought we were talking about crime, not race?

Is there some connection in your mind?

My comments are made solely on the basis of rational people doing rational things, like staying safe where they work, live and shop.

Dependency on government is equal opportunity, isn't it?

Davids mom
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PTCO

Read Kawfi's contribution.

PTC Observer
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DM Why?

Why would I want to do that?

Look DM, it doesn't matter why crime happens, we can debate that all day long. My comments are about what people do in response to crime.

They are rational.

I did offer an opinion on cause but it's merely an opinion.

Now go put your finger in the dike.

Joe Kawfi
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Crime

If it's not race related, then explain why I am 18 times more likely to be the victim of a crime perpetrated by a black person than a white person. You can sing your Koom-bye-yah mantra about joining together all you want, DM. These thugs grew up with a parent that doesn't care about them - why should we? The chance that this particular coward that mugged the lady at Kohls grew up with only one parent in the household is very high. We now pay for free contraception and abortions for the takers- I sure wish they would avail themselves of it instead of having babies just to get more welfare, only to turn them loose on the public at a later age.

What we need is much stiffer penalties for crime and more prisons. Anyone convicted of a crime such as this should be sentenced to a minimum of 5 years of hard labor. 12 hours a day of nothing but digging holes or breaking rocks in swealtering heat for the entire sentence. Now THAT would be a deterrent to crime. Our prisons have become nothing but resorts for these thugs to carry out even more crime. If we subject them to hard labor with no parole, they might think twice before mugging little old ladies.

But no, the bedwetters on the left will cry that it is a human rights violation to subject criminals to hard labor. They are more interested in protecting the criminal than the victims. Just look how the obama administration protected the Boston bomber and stated after less than 48 hours that he acted alone. obama has an affinity for Muslim terrorists and he wants to protect them, especially if they are harming Americans.

RKS
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Not all bed wetters, Joe.

Not all of us bedwetters think the way you generalize. Reality is, violent crimes are done by mostly minorities and the white collar high tech crimes are mostly done by the majority race.

On the one hand you want to take away free contraception and access to abortions and then on the other hand, you want them to take advantage of it.

There is a very serious disconnect in this country that people become "parents" and don't teach their children to become good citizens, who in turn make babies and repeat the process. I don't know if more prisons is the answer, but it would be nice for people to get a little bit morality - and that doesn't have to come from churches.

This bedwetter has no problem with prisoners doing hard work. This bedwetter is NOT more interested in protecting them than the victims.

So, again, stop generalizing, JK - not all bedwetters are as bad as you think we are.

stranger than f...
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"Bedwetter" paradox

RKS, I have noticed the paradoxical nature of the vituperation of people who offer any opinion other than radical right-wing ideology on this blog as “bedwetters.” Assuming that a bedwetter is a disparaging designation for an immature person (one too young to control his bladder throughout the night), the invective is amusing. Fundamentalists on either end of the political, religious, ideological, etc. spectrum cannot tolerate the cognitive dissonance that arises from consideration of the complexity that attends a thorough examination of modern culture and thought. Aspersion of critical thinkers with a term indicating immaturity renders the denunciation laughable to all but the fundamentalists who, unknowingly, are ridiculing no one other than themselves.

Davids mom
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Bedwetters -
Quote:

Aspersion of critical thinkers with a term indicating immaturity renders the denunciation laughable to all but the fundamentalists who, unknowingly, are ridiculing no one other than themselves.

To denigrate appears to be easier than to make a meaningful response. I appreciate those who have expressed their opinion without denigration. It's not always easy in this discussion.

Davids mom
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Joe
Quote:

If it's not race related, then explain why I am 18 times more likely to be the victim of a crime perpetrated by a black person than a white person. You can sing your Koom-bye-yah mantra about joining together all you want, DM

If you find yourself in a black neighborhood that is populated by those who have been bombarded with your hateful, separatist, ignorant rhetoric, I would guess that you would be attacked. Your neighbors in Fayette County are under the same attack as you, regardless of their color. We almost had a shameful race war some 40 years ago, but non-violent action prevented that throughout our country. Obviously there are miscreants of all colors who would love to see violence and a divided America based on ethnicity. There are leaders in American communities who are trying to prevent this.

There are those with kindred tastes and incomes in our country who seem to be able to get along regardless of color. It is obvious that there are conservatives and liberals of all colors. There are those who are separatists of all colors. There are haters of all colors, This country can not allow the ignorant separatists and haters speak for the United States.

Mr. Kawfi, I am black. I am also 18 times more likely to be the victim of a crime perpetrated by a black person than a white person here in Georgia. I am female - so I am even more at risk than you, a male. The majority of our citizens in FC are not criminals. If the non-criminals do not join together, the criminals will win. I and many of my neighbors can shop elsewhere. Americans don't give in to terrorists - and criminals are domestic terrorists IMO. You and Atwater will be defeated in 2013 and the future. - Americans will deal with the actions of the perpetrator. Even this old black woman has learned that today not all white men in pick-up trucks are the enemy.

RKS
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How do we join together, DM?

Reality is, after the Olympics came, the trash and the crime came to Clayton County and it trickled right down GA HY 85 to Fayetteville. I will not put myself at risk by going to the Pavillion on a Saturday morning and shop, risking that I could be killed or maimed for life at the hands of a thug. Everyone says pull together, but what's there to do? Truth is, Fayettedale is having the same thing happen that Riverdale and Jonesboro did. The trash moves in and the good people move out. Now, they are all three becoming the ghetto. It is what it is.

Davids mom
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RKS

For discussions sake: I and other minorities who live in Fayette County do not like being called 'trash'. There is not a lot of low cost housing in Fayetteville like was established in Clayton County before the Olympics. Middle class blacks also left parts of Clayton County. To my understanding, they have lived here peacefully and coopertively among their neighbors for many years. (20% of the population). Fayette County, (Fayetteville) with it's reputation of the 50's, can now be considered a role model for Americans living and working together. Why are there a 'few' on this site who fear this new nomenclature? The teenagers in our high schools are right - they are living the American dream - and they are truly judging their colleagues by their actions and not the color of their skin. Yes, there are those who will bring to the forefront destructive ideas that will have us return to the practices of the '50's. . . .so that these destructive ideas cannot take hold and prevent progress in race relations in the 21st century.

RKS
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DM
Davids mom wrote:

For discussions sake: I and other minorities who live in Fayette County do not like being called 'trash'. There is not a lot of low cost housing in Fayetteville like was established in Clayton County before the Olympics. Middle class blacks also left parts of Clayton County. To my understanding, they have lived here peacefully and coopertively among their neighbors for many years. (20% of the population). Fayette County, (Fayetteville) with it's reputation of the 50's, can now be considered a role model for Americans living and working together. Why are there a 'few' on this site who fear this new nomenclature? The teenagers in our high schools are right - they are living the American dream - and they are truly judging their colleagues by their actions and not the color of their skin. Yes, there are those who will bring to the forefront destructive ideas that will have us return to the practices of the '50's. . . .so that these destructive ideas cannot take hold and prevent progress in race relations in the 21st century.

Read my post, I did NOT call you "trash". When I said the trash moved to Clayton County, I never indicated a color.

S. Lindsey
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DM WHY?
Davids mom wrote:

If you find yourself in a black neighborhood that is populated by those who have been bombarded with your hateful, separatist, ignorant rhetoric, I would guess that you would be attacked.

I would not attack you, Al Sharpton, Jessie Jackson or even Crazy Louie. Why would a White guy in a Black neighborhood be attacked simply because his OPINION is viewed as wrong?

You see DM right there you have illustrated what the problem is... Tolerance or the lack thereof.

This is why a Councilwoman in New York is offended over a black stick figure on a quilt...this is why you call racist anyone with a opposing viewpoint.

Why is it the people that always calls for "Tolerance" are generally the most intolerant?

How is it that a United Community did all the things you said but yet cannot stop the killings in the Black Community and the drive by shootings by gangs?

Reality flies in the face of your statements.

Davids mom
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SL

I don't call you a racist because of your conservative viewpoints on economic issues, I call you a racist because of your not so subtle racist attitude towards those who have identified themselves as 'black'. I see you as an insecure, intellectually challenged individual who is also racist. You see me as the same. So be it. I only counter your arguments to have another point of view represented. I really don't have to do that any longer since there are others who express an opinion opposite to yours. We have developed a mutual disrespect for one another. So be it.

S. Lindsey
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Wow... Dm nice attack

...however I have yet to be challenged intellectually by you yet.

I still wish you would show just one racist comment I have made...I have asked this of you for over a year...what attitude is it that makes me a racist in your view...is it my disagreeing with you maybe? Oh well, maybe one day you might find one, after all as you state America is a racist Country. So you should be able to dig something up I am sure.

Still would like to know why Joe would be attacked in a black neighborhood just for his opinions.. want to answer that one?

Yeah...didn't think so..

S. Lindsey
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Dm..Why would Joe be attacked in a black Neighborhood...

...just for voicing his opinions...?

I really would like your thoughts on this one. Would you also be expected to be attacked in a predominantly White neighborhood? BTW-I mean in 2013 not 1950.

Davids mom
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Answers for the 'loving twins' - SL/Kawfi

Answer to Joe Kawfi; (which is being quoted here again, since he missed it in a previous contribution)

Quote:

Mr. Kawfi, I am black. I am also 18 times more likely to be the victim of a crime perpetrated by a black person than a white person here in Georgia. I am female - so I am even more at risk than you, a male.

Answer to SL:

Quote:

If you find yourself in a black neighborhood that is populated by those who have been bombarded with your hateful, separatist, ignorant rhetoric, I would guess that you would be attacked.

You have attacked with words. I would never want to be in your presence – and I can’t think of any situation at this point in my life where I would be at any event that you would find entertaining or informational.

S. Lindsey
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Uhh...Dm?

Still another none answer... First please quote me on my "attacks" I assume you mean towards you..Please reference the quote and give us a link... I can bet anything you want that if what you call an "attack" was a response to you who threw the first stone or simply was a post in juxtaposition to yours.

You confuse debate for attacks often... So as the old saying goes can't stand the heat...yada yada yada...

So back to the original question... Why would someone like Joe just because he has a certain opinion be attacked for that opinion in a Black Neighborhood?

I can guarantee you... you would not be so attacked in my neighborhood so...

Oh and btw- you would be surprised what events we have in common... but considering how "tolerant" you are you may be right...

Joe Kawfi
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Another non-answer by DM

My question wasn't related to who would be attacked. The question was, why am is it that I am 18 times more likely to be attacked by a black person than by a white person'? You didn't answer the question the first time, and you refuse to answer it now.

You won't provide a cogent response because you know the answer. You just obfuscate with typical bedwetting liberal blather about how everyone is subject to being attacked.

You refuse to answer the question and what do you do instead? You make a pathetically lame attempt to belittle Steve and I because you have painted yourself into a corner and don't like the answer to the question. You attack like a good little Alinskyite.

You still have not quoted one racist comment by S. Lindsey. The elephant is in the room, DM - you just refuse to acknowledge it. So, GFY.

Davids mom
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Kawfi

Sorry Joe, this applies to you too.

Quote:

If you find yourself in a black neighborhood that is populated by those who have been bombarded with your hateful, separatist, ignorant rhetoric, I would guess that you would be attacked.

Regarding S Lindsey/Lindly or whatever:

Unfortunately - not all of his comments have been 'stuck in 'being moderated'. I am not going to repeat his inane, not so subtle racist comments. After all - who am I to correct someone who is 100% correct?

S. Lindsey
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DM..that's because you can't...

and until you can do so.. you are a bigot. Plain and simple.

Definition of BIGOT

: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

All I ask is one DM...Just one. One comment that you say is racist...One comment or opinion that you deem racist.

It must be easy DM since as you say I am a racist and I have been posting for about 5 years should be real easy.

You see DM if you can't do it... and I know you can't then you are simply using ad hominem attacks to deflect who is really the one with a racial issue.

Anyone who states "America is a Racist Country" like you did is indicative of one who has what we used to call "a chip on their shoulder".. and yours DM is a log.

Joe Kawfi
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Steve

Don't expect an answer. These questions are just too hard for someone as mentally challenged as Davids Mom to answer with any semblence of reason. Pity her, but try not to get too mad at her. She's just spouting off the hate that she learned growing up. I'm still waiting for a cogent answer as to why I am 18 times more likely to get attacked by a black person than a white person and how anyone could not think that there is some racial aspect to it. Her answer is always to basically say that 'everyone is doing it' and try to assign some twisted form of moral equivelancy to it.

S. Lindsey
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Joe...

...honestly I don't expect her to answer. When I back her in the corner either I get called a racist, she goes kum-bah-yah or she swears off ever answering me... (which she never does anyway).

I do find it amazing that for a person who comes on here for the "STATED" purpose of bringing race into this discussion fears talking about it so much.

You see she really doesn't want a open and honest discussion...no she wants to subtly place blame. The problem is we are so far removed from 1865 as a society yet she is still fighting the fight from the 1950's.

60 years later she is still carrying the torch keeping alive the old feelings, the old wrongs.

In the next decade or two these old race dinosaurs like her, Sharpton and Crazy Louie will go away... With no real race hawkers to replace them maybe our children will finally be able to grow up in a truly race blind society where it is NOT about the color of your skin but the content of your character.

Someone truly amazing said that...shame so few really listened.

Davids mom
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Joe/SL

You have made it obvious that you have no intention of bringing any harmony to a difficult discussion. There have been excellent comments - not always agreeing with me - about race relations. There is an excellent discussion going on about fighting domestic terrorism in Fayette County. You can continue your desire to appear academically and intellectually superior to all who don't agree with you - but the sincere discussion will continue.

S. Lindsey
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Fighting back can get you killed?

Also being a meek victim can do it as well.. As for me and my wife we are armed EVERYWHERE we go...

Some punk grabs her purse (which she doesn't carry) a metaphor if you will... he won't have to worry about who sends rounds downrange at him, it will be both of us...

Tell that to the Rape victim RKS.. Don't fight back just lay there and let it happen... NOT.

RKS
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SLindsey
S. Lindsey wrote:

Also being a meek victim can do it as well.. As for me and my wife we are armed EVERYWHERE we go...

Some punk grabs her purse (which she doesn't carry) a metaphor if you will... he won't have to worry about who sends rounds downrange at him, it will be both of us...

Tell that to the Rape victim RKS.. Don't fight back just lay there and let it happen... NOT.

I wasn't referring to rape victims, I was referring to purse grabbers and the such at The Pavillion.

S. Lindsey
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RKS just like you shouldn't feed the bears...

...making it easy for the Criminals only encourage them.

Your Statement of "don't fight back" is not one I recommend.

Women should always resist... NEVER just allow "it" to happen to them. Whatever "it" is...

Cokeoverpepsi123
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crime

Don't forget about La Parilla getting robbed and the armed robbery and br eak in at Atlanta Bread. I have been working in the pavilion for thre last 8 years and have seen huge changes in the clientele. Buisness has gone done especially at night, and you don't feel safe being therr late. Another big change is the kind of people applying for the jobs. Fayetteville has recently put aux police into the pavilion on the weekends so lets see if that helps. Quite honestly, fayetteville can probobly hire 2 more officers with the revenue from stop sign violations in the pavilion if they wdre there. As a person who does work inside, it would be nice to see more police as you do not really see them often. Even with that police station building there...they stop in and leave...its really just fire. Its a shame. Fayetteville is a great city with a great history and reaidents, something needs to be done before it turna worse. ButI do feel that avoiding thr Pavilion is not going to help either, because small businesses like mine can no t stay open without customers. Then me as a fayette resident will loose everything, then u will have more and more empty stores. So avoiding the pavilion really isn't helping either. Its not just walmart in tgere with where 90% of their employees are worthless and rude and corporate owned, theirs the small business people like myself trying to support my family who gets affected aswell. I'm not a professional commenter and I'm doing this on my phone so there is typos...but I hope my point gets accross.

Cokeoverpepsi123
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crime

Don't forget about La Parilla getting robbed and the armed robbery and br eak in at Atlanta Bread. I have been working in the pavilion for thre last 8 years and have seen huge changes in the clientele. Buisness has gone done especially at night, and you don't feel safe being therr late. Another big change is the kind of people applying for the jobs. Fayetteville has recently put aux police into the pavilion on the weekends so lets see if that helps. Quite honestly, fayetteville can probobly hire 2 more officers with the revenue from stop sign violations in the pavilion if they wdre there. As a person who does work inside, it would be nice to see more police as you do not really see them often. Even with that police station building there...they stop in and leave...its really just fire. Its a shame. Fayetteville is a great city with a great history and reaidents, something needs to be done before it turna worse. ButI do feel that avoiding thr Pavilion is not going to help either, because small businesses like mine can no t stay open without customers. Then me as a fayette resident will loose everything, then u will have more and more empty stores. So avoiding the pavilion really isn't helping either. Its not just walmart in tgere with where 90% of their employees are worthless and rude and corporate owned, theirs the small business people like myself trying to support my family who gets affected aswell. I'm not a professional commenter and I'm doing this on my phone so there is typos...but I hope my point gets accross.

Davids mom
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Coke

Thanks for sharing your perspective.

PTC Avenger
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Dangerous Neighborhoods

It seems like whenever there is an influx on non-whites crime and degeneracy seem to follow. I decided to do some research and found some pretty interesting data.

NeighborhoodScout.com recently released a study of the Top 25 Most Dangerous Neighborhoods in America. Their report can be found here: http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/neighborhoods/crime-rates/25-most-dange....

Here's how NeighborhoodScout developed its list:
"Even the most dangerous cities in America can have relatively safe neighborhoods, as there is more variation in crime within most cities than between cities. But using exclusive data developed by NeighborhoodScout, and based on FBI data from all 17,000 local law enforcement agencies in America, we here report those specific neighborhoods in America that have the highest predicted rates of violent crime per 1,000 neighborhood residents of all. Violent crimes include murder, forcible rape, armed robbery, and aggravated assault. These neighborhoods are the epicenters of violence in America, where social issues are likely to ignite into violence and spread."

Regrettably, NeighborhoodScout.com didn't include racial demographics for these neighborhoods. Luckily, the real estate website Moveto.com does supply such demographic data for zip codes where these most dangerous neighborhoods are found. Not only that, but Moveto.com gives you an incredibly detailed list of important demographic, property valuation, crime index, and owner vs. rental data that will help homeowners avoid making a huge mistake when moving to a city.

By simply cross-referencing NeighborhoodScout.com with Moveto.com, it was simple to produce a detailed racial breakdown of those neighborhood's labeled "America's Most Dangerous."

Of those 25 neighborhoods:

•Eight of the 25 had black populations greater than 95%
•11 of the 25 had black populations greater than 90%
•14 of the 25 had black populations greater than 75%
•21 of the 25 had black populations greater than 50%
•Four of the 25 were located in Detroit, all with black populations greater than 90%

So what are the practical ramifications of this research? I'll let you draw your own conclusions. Just remember, facts aren't racist.

stranger than f...
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Try looking at Socio-economic status for causation

You might also examine the SES of these areas for an explanation of the high crime rates. Remember that correlation does not always indicate causation. People of means (regardless of race or ethnicity) rarely commit violent crimes.

renault314
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STF - the relationship IS causal, just reversed.

people dont commit crime because they are poor. They are poor becasue they commit crimes. Their socio-economic status is one of their own making. Yes, the correlation for high-crime and high-poverty levels tends to be high, but its a mistake to assume that one fact is not causing the other. Bleeding-heart liberals will always try to explain the crime away by saying the poverty drove them to it, and "oh! if only theyd had more opportunity!!!" The hard nosed-conservatives will say so what, thats no excuse. The truth is somewhere in the middle. Speaking in generalizations here, you said that people of means rarely commit crimes. I'm sure thats true. But the corrollary of that staement is also true. People who commit crimes rarely become people of means. The reson high crime areas are also high poverty is becasue (generally speaking) everyone who was going to do something with their life and make something of themselves and NOT become career criminals already left those areas. They didn't want to be around crime either. The concentration and distillation of people who activly engage in criminal lifestyles is the result. They don't go to grad school and get great jobs or start (Legal) buisinesses. They subsist of government assistance and prey on their neighbors. You don't exactly get a W-2 from the pawn shop when you hock a stolen flat-screen, do you?! These people are always going to be poor, because they decided long ago they'd never work a real job. Im on board with aboandoning the Pavillion. I say the best revenge is living well, outside their reach. Let the kuroshio have it. Too late to stop it now anyway.

stranger than f...
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Preaching to the choir

Renault, a reading of my posts will uncover no excuses for criminal enterprises based on socioeconomic status or any other variables. I am not pleading for sympathy for law-breakers. I am asking thoughtful readers to consider the complexity of variables associated with willful criminality instead of blaming crime exclusively on ethnic factors as PTC Avenger suggested in his original post. His simplistic explanation that dark skin pigmentation causes criminal behavior ignores many intervening variables (some of which you have identified).

MYTMITE
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Being poor is no excuse for committing a crime.

i am sick to death of all this claptrap about crimes being committed because one group of people has less than another group. We grew up poor. There were seven of us children. We were brought up to work for what we wanted. Just because we did not have something someone else had did not give us the right to take it from them. I raised my four children after my divorce by working two jobs, picking fresh vegetables from the fields after the farmers had picked their crops (with permission). I bartered for fresh eggs and many other things. I never even considered getting food stamps or other government help. These children were my responsibility. As soon as they were old enough they got part-time jobs to buy the extras they wanted. They all grew up to be hard working, law abiding citizens as are their children. None have ever been on welfare or any government aid. We have always felt that you help each other and yourself. That used to be the American way. Now the new American way is to see how much you can get without working for it---food stamps, free cell phones, etc., but yet Ipads and SmartPhones etc., seem to be a necessity as do all the other bells and whistles. We used to have pride in being independent and self-sufficient now the pride seems to be in getting as much as you can with no effort. This is one time that change definitely is not better. Unless we do a complete turn around we are doomed as a nation. Sad to say.

stranger than f...
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Agreed being poor doesn't excuse crime, however...

Poverty itself does not compel one to crime. Indeed, most people (poor, middle, or rich) do NOT commit crime. My earlier post was merely a response to PTC Avenger's statistical rundown of blacks populating crime-ridden areas. Avenger's point seemed to be that being black was more likely to cause criminal behavior. Actually, being poor is more likely to be associated with criminal behavior (and a lot of black people happen to be poor). It is inappropriate for ANYONE to commit criminal behavior, and I see no justification for criminal acts. However, Avenger's statistics leave out a very important variable in the causation aspect of his equation.

PTC Avenger
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Crime In Appalachia

Oh really? Then perhaps you can explain to me why the Appalachia Mountain region, an overwhelmingly white region struck with some of the most abject poverty in the country, sees a crime rate significantly lower than those of other regions with *ahem* diverse populations?

I'll wait for your erudite response.

You're enabling the criminals by taking one thing and calling it another. "It's not criminality, it's poverty" you say. Those who can see know the truth.

stranger than f...
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The FBI posits a complex set of variables affecting criminality

Avenger, your characterization of the conclusions of my posts is quite erroneous. I did not posit that poverty compels crime nor does it excuse crime. My point is that variables affecting the volume of crime in any area are quite diverse and venture far beyond skin pigment. Your argument that the paucity of crime in a white rural outpost confirms a positive ethnic bias may be more reasonably explained by the widespread finding that crime is perpetrated much more prevalently in dense, urban areas. In fact the FBI has identified the following factors “known to affect the volume and type of crime occurring from place to place.”

• Population density and degree of urbanization.
• Variations in composition of the population, particularly youth concentration.
• Stability of the population with respect to residents’ mobility, commuting patterns, and transient factors.
• Modes of transportation and highway system.
• Economic conditions, including median income, poverty level, and job availability.
• Cultural factors and educational, recreational, and religious characteristics.
• Family conditions with respect to divorce and family cohesiveness.
• Climate.
• Effective strength of law enforcement agencies.
• Administrative and investigative emphases of law enforcement.
• Policies of other components of the criminal justice system (i.e., prosecutorial, judicial, correctional, and probational).
• Citizens’ attitudes toward crime.
• Crime reporting practices of the citizenry.

It may be true that the dangerous neighborhoods you have identified are largely populated by African Americans; however, skin color does not constitute the primary distinguishing feature of these enclaves. My point is merely that a set of complex variables influence crime and defy exclusive, simplistic explanations.

Davids mom
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Haves/have nots in our country/Appalachia

There is a rise in crime in Appalachia, but when there isn't much to steal - why bother? Crime is higher in urban/metropolitan areas. Blacks from the south, after the civil war, did not go to Appalachia looking for a better life or employment. The black families who live in Fayette County do not represent the domestic terrorists that are committing crime. No one is denying the statistics. Statistics say that a white man may molest my grandchildren, but that doesn't mean my white neighbor in FC is a child molester. It is intimated that all blacks in the Pavilion are not from FC and are criminals. That's the 'speak' of ignorant, antiquated separatists who are afraid of losing their last claim to superiority - being white.

Davids mom
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Mytimite
Quote:

We have always felt that you help each other and yourself. That used to be the American way. Now the new American way is to see how much you can get without working for it---food stamps, free cell phones, etc., but yet Ipads and SmartPhones etc., seem to be a necessity as do all the other bells and whistles. We used to have pride in being independent and self-sufficient now the pride seems to be in getting as much as you can with no effort. This is one time that change definitely is not better. Unless we do a complete turn around we are doomed as a nation. Sad to say

This change in attitude is not only seen in one segment of our country. There are many, unfortunately, who are not following the 'ethics' that made this nation strong. The majority of families in our country still take pride in working hard, achieving success, and providing meaningful service to others and their community. (Note Boston, Newtown, New York, etc.) Çriminals don't have an excuse -but they are often assisted to 'scam' the system (foodstamps) by unethical managers of the system. The 'unethical' are also criminals IMO. The American public knows what is 'wrong' - and reform is needed. We need to demand reform in taxes; welfare; education; etc. in order to heal. This disease - 'dis-ease' can kill us!

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DM, please consider...

...that 'unethical managers' may (and IMO probably) have their hands tied by failed policy. Most Gov't programs are directed by policies; 'street-level' administrators are often compelled to follow these policies/implementations regardless of their opinions/views. Believe me, 26 yrs in the Army and there were LOTS of things I wouldn't have done if not constrained by 'policy' or 'regulations'.

Davids mom
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KC

Ethics/knowing right from wrong -each individual has to live with his/her own conscience. Doing the right thing is not always easy- but looking back on over 40 tears in the work environment, I think one sleeps better when choosing the ethical way. It's not easy.

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KC Andy & 'constraints'

GuessI was just more of a renegade than you--In my 21 yrs,I did what I thought was right and yes,it caused me grief on occasion, but there was always someone who believed I was right there to bail me out!

kcchiefandy
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AHG, that's the Army...

...Gov't bureaucracies have no such commitment to their employees; it's all about cow-towing to the policies...what's 'right' means nothing, because what's right IS the policies in place.

Davids mom
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KC

I respect your opinion of the army - but I know too many men and women who chose AGH's way. . . Wasn't easy I'm sure, but they were highly respected.

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Poor does not make you Criminal...

That's just a liberal cop-out.

Even our poor have a higher standard of living then then Middle Class in the rest of the World.

No being a criminal means you believe you DESERVE whatever you want that the other person doesn't and most likely just took "it" from the someone else.

Sounds like "You didn't build that" doesn't it...

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Socio-economic status

So much for the success of the War on Poverty and other legacy give-aways.

Joe Kawfi
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Foodstamps

If the working taxpayer's money is going to be taken from them by force to feed the mouths of people too lazy to get a job or people that milk the system, then taxpayers should have some say in what food can be purchased with foodstamps.

Vegetables, Fruit, rice, potatoes, milk, cereal, and perhaps some meat and chicken should be the only items that people are allowed to purchase.
Children are getting too fat on twinkies, candy, snacks, and other unhealthy items that have no place in taxpayer funded food programs.

Call your congressman today and demand that that food items for purchase with food stamps be limited to only the necessities. It's time to show the mooching class that the free ride is coming to an end.

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Foodstamp regs

While your idea sounds simple, think about low income areas and the 'hood in Atlanta. The stores that people can get too often don't supply fresh fruit and vet. If they have no car, they aren't able to get to the big Kroger and Publix and Wally World to get all those things. Do we need to then regulate what food the stores offer? Require the farmer's to take foodstamps so they can get fresh stuff? I agree, too many poor people get crap to eat and it makes them plump and unhealthy, but mandating it, as in legislating how a person eats would be difficult.

Davids mom
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Cyclist
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In 1969, just 2.8 million Americans received food stamps. Today, over 47 million Americans are on food stamps. The Fox News special explained that one contributing factor to the massive expansion of the food stamp program is the crony capitalism that has cropped up around the anti-poverty program

Uh, there's been a recession and involvement in wars since 1969. More middle class parents are grateful for food stamps then ever before. People are still out of work or under employed. Do we let these families starve their children like in the days of Hoover?

PTC Observer
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DM - Yes

Then, just perhaps, they will get off their duffs and take the place of all the illegals in the workforce we have in this country. You know actually work instead of taking a government dole? If there isn't a government dole we actually may see the rebirth of personal responsibility. Who knows?

Davids mom
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Reality? PTCO

The teacher whose husband lost his job and is now under employed - and their combined salaries for a family of six qualifies them for foods tramps - they should get off their 'lazy' duffs and get more work to feed their four children? Or let their kids starve? This economic crisis is not just hurting those who in your mind are non-deserving leeches. Better management of welfare is needed- but there are no quick fixes. We need a Congress that can work with the elected executive branch of our government. This political mess is hurting our country and our future. While we witness the political fallout of the sequester - top level executives are receiving bonuses. Why?

kcchiefandy
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Specifics, DM...

...a teacher (an honorable but not overly-paid field) and her husband - what was the job he lost? True - there are many decent folks who've been hurt in this economy. Oh, did I mention my wife was unemployed for 8 months after she came back from A-Stan (USAR Soldier), but applied & interviewed constantly until she found an office management job paying far below what she's worth (2 degrees, loads of work experience)? She didn't even file for unemployment, and I'm not exactly a millionaire. Given, we don't have 4 kids, but we sacrificed and avoided the handout route.

Your example gives about a tenth of the story; no judgements, of course, but it'd be interesting to find out how big a house & what kind of cars they drive. Oh, and they should have expected a tight budget w/ 4 kids, unless one of them is in a professional field (i.e. Dr, lawyer, upper mgmt, etc...).

Top-level Execs compete w/ other top-level peers; given their packages are obscene, but in a free market it's the nature of the beast. Don't like it; campaign to boycott their product & services and don't subscribe to their offerings. You're not going to affect them any other way.

Davids mom
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KC

(

Quote:

an honorable but not overly-paid field

Most teachers have two degrees . Where are teachers overly paid? True, teachers don't enter the profession to get rich, but compared to their responsibility and need to constantly take courses and/or workshops to remain current, I think they are grossly under paid.

kcchiefandy
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DM, please read again...

...I said NOT overly-paid; i.e. they do not receive the compensation (most) that they deserve (please remember I taught for a short time!).

Davids mom
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KC

Thanks for the correction! We do agree here! Sorry for the misunderstanding.

kcchiefandy
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*

*

kcchiefandy
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PTCO...

...they aren't 'illegals' anymore; they're 'Obamagrants'!

Davids mom
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PTCO/KC

You have really immersed yourselves in the Lee Atwater ideology.

kcchiefandy
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I guess, DM...

...I lean toward the fear of our nation becoming a 'beggar, beggar, beggar' than the other word you're alluding to.

Davids mom
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KC

Understand.

S. Lindsey
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...and you Marx

...just saying.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"

Spyglass
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I get info for Seattle

when I go to moveto.com

PTC Avenger
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Sorry, Typo
S. Lindsey
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Awww...now ya don gone an done it...PTCA

...You used reason, logic and well facts to come to a reasonable conclusion, but you are not supposed to do that. "Those" facts have to be ignored..it's not a problem in the "Community" it's a problem with Republicans or the TeaParty or "certain" minority of white people who hasn't crawled out of the 50's.

Thinking and reasonable people know that the "whole community" is facing a major problem and that a majority of violent crimes are being committed by blacks.

Now we can ignore it, excuse it, blame reporting of it racism and even tar the ones that dares say it as racist.

All the while we see more and more purse snatchings, robberies and murders happening everywhere.

The number one factor will be blamed on jobs... and whose fault is that?

Welfare barely allows you to survive while teaching you no skills, kills any incentive and generally makes the person dependent and makes the person feel insignificant and useless..

But Democrats and spineless Republicans just keep on adding to it thinking throwing more money at the problem will make it all go away.

I suppose we could do as Zimbabwe did and make everyone a Millionaire... but how much is a Millionaire worth then?

fayetmom
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Fayetteville Crime

Do we feel the safety of our small town of Fayetteville is going away day by day? I love Fayetteville and have lived here for many years. I shop in Fayetteville at the Pavilion often, eat out, go for walks, but I refuse to live my life in fear. I am always aware of my surroundings and careful with every step I take. When I am at the Pavilion and see a Fayetteville Police car I am grateful and wave, just to let them know I see them. With only 4-5 Police Officers on duty per shift (this doesn't include Detective's), remember the marked units are patrolling the ENTIRE city limits. The Pavilion is inside the City limits even though the FCSO does patrol and ride through. It could be worse, Fayette County could have local news media here nightly reporting. Thank a Police Officer next time you see them, as I do appreciate them working to keep me safe. They can only be in one place at a time, driving through our subdivisions, answering calls for assistance, working a traffic accident, or what ever they are dispatched to. Let's be pro-active when it comes to crime, where we shop, keep your eyes open, and always be safe...

Davids mom
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Crime in Fayetteville

What is happening is frightening. I don't understand why, in this day and age, retailers in some areas of FC feel they don't need better security. When one shops in Beverly Hills, on Rodeo Road even, there are security guards at the front door of most stores; hidden cameras within the store, and plenty of police on the streets. Those shopping in these stores are not 'thugs' - or at least not dressed like thugs. There are not 'thugs' in the Beverly Hills neighborhood or even close to the neighborhood - but it has been the experience of the store owners that dishonest people will try to steal - even in the so-called best of neighborhoods. Shoppers in Beverly Hills feel protected - so they continue to shop there. I admit that the prices that are charged in Beverly Hills allow the owners the ability to afford security - but they are maintaining the confidence of their customers that they will be safe while in the store and in the area. (And even then - there is crime in Beverly Hills) I'm in the Pavilion on week days in the afternoon. The parking lots are reasonably full; the majority of the customers do not look like 'thugs' to me. . . but even tho there is a police station in the Pavilion, I'm beginning to doubt the 'security'. Store owners - are you going to 'beef-up' security or 'run'? The economy is improving - but people only spend money where they feel secure.

We need to develop shopping skills that are used in larger cities:
1. Don't park in areas where there are no cars
2. If possible, don't carry a purse. (You see very few young girls with purses these days - their phones and wallets are elsewhere.)
3. If possible, don't go to the Pavilion or any shopping area alone or when there are few people in the parking lot or the store.

I'm afraid that more women are going to 'carry' here in Fayette County - and more will be practicing their 'martial arts' skills. I worked in an urban area for many years - and felt safe here in Fayette County - but it looks like I'm going to benefit from the survival skills I learned in 'urban' areas. I'm not leaving Fayetteville - but I will travel to shop where I feel secure. And that's not necessarily PTC, Newnan or anywhere 'close'. They have valet parking in Atlanta; great variety of stores; terrific restaurants - and SECURITY Sad.

Joe Kawfi
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See everyone?
Davids mom wrote:

I don't understand why, in this day and age, retailers in some areas of FC feel they don't need better security. Sad.

It's the store owners fault for not having enough security! We need to be more like Beverly Hills and have better security, not arrest the thugs that are terrorizing our citizens!

If the owners of the Pavilion and the store owners increase the security then the innocent consumers will pay higher prices for products to compensate for the additional cost. It's would be just another tax on the middle class due to the continued thuggery in our fine city.

Yeah, lets not address the root cause of the problem which is poor parenting, single parent households, and a violent thug culture. Let's punish the innocent and make them pay for more security.

RKS
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Agree with Joe
Joe Kawfi wrote:
Davids mom wrote:

I don't understand why, in this day and age, retailers in some areas of FC feel they don't need better security. Sad.

It's the store owners fault for not having enough security! We need to be more like Beverly Hills and have better security, not arrest the thugs that are terrorizing our citizens!

If the owners of the Pavilion and the store owners increase the security then the innocent consumers will pay higher prices for products to compensate for the additional cost. It's would be just another tax on the middle class due to the continued thuggery in our fine city.

Yeah, lets not address the root cause of the problem which is poor parenting, single parent households, and a violent thug culture. Let's punish the innocent and make them pay for more security.

I have to agree with Joe on this one. (Everyone take a collective sigh on that one!) Putting a bandaid on the gaping bleeding artery of crime in the Pavillion by asking the stores to pay for the security will not do much to fix the problem. I don't go to the Pavillion alone, in fact, I rarely go anywhere in F'ville alone anymore. My fine city has been Ghettofied and Thuggerfied and is no different than Riverdale. DM assumes this woman didn't park in a safe place or made herself an easy target? That's not fair....since we don't know that, let's not assume that. Not carry a purse? That's not the answer either. For me, if I am shopping alone, I go to Griffin, PTC or Newnan, which means my tax dollars, which should stay in my fine city, don't. However, I need to feel safe and I don't feel safe here anymore.

Davids mom
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RKS

Sigh! LOL

Quote:

My fine city has been Ghettofied and Thuggerfied and is no different than Riverdale

I don't agree. And I think that law enforcement, store owners, and we as Pavilion consumers in Fayette County can work together to make the Pavilion safe.

RKS
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DM
Davids mom wrote:

Sigh! LOL

Quote:

My fine city has been Ghettofied and Thuggerfied and is no different than Riverdale

I don't agree. And I think that law enforcement, store owners, and we as Pavilion consumers in Fayette County can work together to make the Pavilion safe.

Well, that sounds like a good plan, but I have lived her for about 30 years now and this town has gone down the crapper. I will be glad to see how everyone works together to make is safer. In the meantime, I will shop where I feel safe and that is NOT the Pavillion.

Spyglass
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Griffin? You're fooling yourself.

Pull the crime rates for Spalding and Griffin and compare and contrast them to Fayette and Fayetteville and get back to us.

bandparent
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While I do understand your

While I do understand your remark about single parent households, not every single-parent household
contributes to violence in our society. I am a single parent of a 15YO, soon to be a 16YO.
He is a Life scout - one rank away from Eagle, a youth leader at his church, a Wind Ensemble
member as a high-school freshman (now a matter of days before auditioning again for his placement in
Wind Ensemble), and a 7-time athletic champion in 3 different sports in this county (as a rising
sophomore at Sandy Creek, he is currently training up for a second football title during his tenure
there and his eighth championship title overall) and maintains acceptable grades and behavior. They
anticipate college scholarships for him in both music and athletics, and then career football. Single
parenting can be done quite successfully, but, in his case, it has not been done alone, all by me;
many thanks to his hands-on and very involved church leaders, scout leaders, coaches, etc. Many
good men have stepped up for my son and helped make a huge difference in his life by helping him
develop the skills and his particular talents, so that, ultimately, he will continue to contribute
to society productively.

Davids mom
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Reality

There are many who are working to correct the causes of crime in our world. Poverty is one of the causes. Cut budgets, furloughs, austerity programs where the poor and middle class lose jobs and the rich receive bonuses, cutting police and fire services,does not appear to be the answer to our crime problem. Maybe treating your neighbor as you want to be treated; facing the reality that crime is existent throughout our country- and middle class/upper middle class neighborhoods are targets and being aware that Fayetteville and Peachtree City are middle class targets is an answer that will keep residents of these two beautiful cities safe. There are those who 'watch' for those times when our small but mighty law enforcement are not in the area. We, as owners/customers need to deal with the reality of the times and do all we can to make our experience in our shopping areas secure. In the meantime, there are organizations in our community that are working hard to combat the societal problems that contribute to crime. Community churches and FACTOR are doing a wonderful job in Fayette County-and owners providing more security and we,being vigilant customers, will assist in keeping our Pavilion a great place to be! It's called working together!

kcchiefandy
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Reality, Part II

Economies will rise and sink; it's their nature. Blaming constrained services and rich people for crime is ludicrous, at best. Commiting a crime is a personal choice, regardless of the reason(s), compelling or otherwise (I lean toward the 'otherwise' reason they're commited). PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, or the lack there of, is the primary cause. This simple building block of character starts at HOME. The failure to institute it is directly the fault of the parents, period.

Criminal acts are a learned behavior; most children aren't enbedded with the innate knowledge of how to steal or rob - that comes from their environment. Blame lays firmly on this doorstep.

As long as you don't mind businesses passing along the cost, to you, of 'providing' more security, I guess I'll agree on that point. Law-abiding citizens will be well advised to be aware of the surroundings when out, go out with someone, when shops are busier, keep a personal defense item in hand, and prepare to make criminals pay for their actions.

Davids mom
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KC -

I know many who would prefer to pay A LITTLE extra for security here in Fayetteville than spend the gas money to drive to Lenox! (But remember, many can also 'shop' on the net and save gas money) Successful business areas are areas where consumers feel safe. As for the other societal problems, I agree - home, church, community, school all need to teach and demonstrate those practices that most of our young people try to emulate. Each individual needs to ask themselves - would I want my child, neighbors child, etc., to act as I do?

I did some research in opening a business in The Perimeter - a diverse middle/upper middle class shopping area north of Atlanta. I checked the crime reports. Pick pocketing, grab and run, robbery and burglary all reported. There were empty store fronts at the time of my research. I have no idea why - but there is increased security in this particular mall today. Did the increased security stop all crime? No. But consumers felt safer and as the economy improved, customers continued to shop there. Your suggestions regarding personal responsibility while shopping anywhere are well taken. Some teenagers shared with me this suggestion. Take out your phone while walking - as if you are talking to someone - and if you feel intimidated act like you may take a picture!!! I don't know if I have the nerve to do that - but anyway - I noticed that our teens are very seldom alone - anywhere!

Davids mom
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LENOX MALL IN ATLANTA

Not anywhere near Lakewood Neighborhood. Valet parking, guarded entrance, great restaurants, choice of stores.

S. Lindsey
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Fox 5 News-Lakewood Neighborhood ranked in top 10..

..as most dangerous.

Sad is not the word I would use...

hutch866
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Can't help but laugh

When something happens in PTC, all you hear is crickets, but when something happens in Fayetteville, all the PTC people can't wait to offer an opinion.

lettinguno
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The Crime Tsunami Wave is slowly moving from

Atlanta southward towards Fayetteville, Peachtree City, Sharpsburg and Newnan. To be replaced with nail salons, massage parlors and rooms to rent by the hour.

Joe Kawfi
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Thugs

This is why my wife won't go to the Pavillion without me and I always carry whenever I go anywhere in Fayetteville anymore. The thug-rapper-wannabees have turned the Pavillion into a cesspool and it won't be long before it suffers the same fate as Shannon and Southlake.

The animals are out of the cage and they are out out of obamo-bucks and obamo-phones and now they are out to get yours.

Be careful out there people. Always know your surroundings and profile. All of the recent thefts in the area have one common denominator.

kcchiefandy
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Shop w/ a buddy...

...as a single - especially - female is a prime target for cowardly scum. I'm 6'1", 220 lbs. so have never been bothered; these cowards prey only on the - potentially - easy marks. Pepper spray & other weapons should be readily handy for those venturing out alone. Agreed - the Pavilion has attracted scum from nearby areas.

Robert W. Morgan
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So what if Pavilion closes? Turn it into a shooting alley

Better yet - do it now. Put some police in the empty shops and in the parking lot and elsewhere. Video every single move everyone makes and shoot or taser them when then do something. Then charge them with a crime and fine them for the lost sales tax because of the customers they frightened away. Could be a big bucks grab for the county. And good target training for the police.

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Fayette Pavilion dying a slow death

It's definitely already in progress and won't be that long before it's like Abandoned Mall or Southlake or Greenbriar.

The Fayette Pavilion put a real hurt on Abandoned Mall and Southlake, but where are all the losers going to head next? Ashley Park in Newnan is way too far away from their normal locale(and a lot of Newnanites pack heat) and I don't see the PTC Avenue as a place they end up either.

I looked at the crime in the last 5-6 years around the Pavilion and inside and it's sickening. You have an armed robbery at RBC right across. Another at Bank of America. Yet another at Bank of America. A kid on his bike getting jacked at the Bank of America in Banks Station. A Kroger employee hit over the head in the parking lot at Banks Station. A shootout at Wal-Greens. All the crap going on within the Pavilion itself. Car chases. Thuggery in the Kohl's parking lot twice recently.

I think that shopping mecca is down for the count. NCG opening just outside of PTC also eliminated a lot of people from having to go to the Pavilion to see a movie, and they've never been busted for a rodent infestation and don't have excessive loitering either. It's shame.

When that place was built, I swear there was supposed to be a police/fire precinct right there at the entrance. There IS a FD location there, but I don't think they ever staffed the police part of it, ever. Maybe I'm wrong, but that might have helped years ago to stop the influx of crime that is now happening and isn't going to end. Regardless of that, when you are that close to the clayco line and you have desirable anything, they will come for it and drag what was once nice into utter crap eventually. For reference, see Greenbriar, Shannon/Abandoned Mall and Southlake. It never changes.

moelarrycurly
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Joined: 10/17/2010
Someday retail security

"experts" will learn that cameras at eye level just might identify the perps.

Robert W. Morgan
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Joined: 10/26/2005
Retail security was designed to catch shoplifters

The whole idea was to hide the cameras and surprise the thief. This new wave of urban terrorism and armed robbers does indeed need more visible cameras as a deterrent and to identify the thug. Probably going to be a day when you will have to pass through a metal detector just to go shopping.